Re: [Emc-users] EDM machining, g-code

2016-12-26 Thread TJoseph Powderly 
interesting AGie stuff
please look at
http://www.gfms.com/content/dam/gfac/proddb/edm/die-sinking/en/agiecharmilles-form-200-ms_en.pdf
for a bit more screenshots
remember, this is for a proprietary machine, and will be of limited use
what is good though, is they actualy asked users to evaluate the user 
interface before forcing it onto all the users
GF is George FIscher, the auto body company, ( and a lot more)
they bought up AGie Charmilles Elox and other edm mfctrs over the years
(the borg of edm, so they have acquired a LOT of edm knowledge )

i was head of AGie sink edm for a while back in the day, sort of by default,
no one else knew what the hell those machine were, and they only wanted 
to play on wedm anyway
(eeew its oily and dirty eeeow)

regards
TomP tjtr33
On 12/26/16 19:46, Nicklas Karlsson wrote:
>> ...
>> please tell us more of what you try to control with all those flushing
>> controls!
>> it seems there is magnitude of flush, and type of flush(pressure /
>> vacuum), and tank fill and dump
> The flushing controls are coils I found inside the machine and I have not yet 
> figured out how to use them. I added a button so I could turn them off/on, 
> there are also a few LEDs with no use. I think lubrification should be 
> started then machine is enabled?
>
> It is possible to adjust tOff/tOn time and a meter for gap voltage, there are 
> few buttons left over from example. I spent a just a few hours on the user 
> interface and are right now thinking about how it should look and more or 
> less standard *-codes for parameters for generator, I also have found m-codes 
> you sent earlier.
>
>
> I have found Charmilles have a new standard user interface 
> http://www.mfgnewsweb.com/archives/4/37497/Controls-dec12/New-Standard-User-Interface-for-Sinker-EDM-Machines.aspx
>
>
>> the area 'Settings' could be anything from on & off time to
>> cuttime/jumpdistance/frequency.
>> the 'Command' area is understandable
>> regards, & merry Christmas
>> tomp tjtr33
>> On 12/25/16 21:54, Nicklas Karlsson wrote:
> Happen to know any more or less g-codes for these motions? g-codes
> for control of flush? g-codes for control of EDM power source?
 ... i uploaded mcodes before with python commands to change edm
 generator on/off/current/polarity
>>> I could remember I god some g-code suitable for EDM and are looking
>>> for them right now. I have entered g-code for Linuxcnc and Sodick wire
>>> EDM in a database, there a problem with a few codes. The database
>>> could be rather useful if filled in for more machines and put on the
>>> web. I have never machined run a machine and think it could be a good
>>> start to read thru which codes are available.
>>> --
>>> Developer Access Program for Intel Xeon Phi Processors Access to Intel
>>> Xeon Phi processor-based developer platforms. With one year of Intel
>>> Parallel Studio XE. Training and support from Colfax. Order your
>>> platform today.http://sdm.link/intel
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>>> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>> --
>> Developer Access Program for Intel Xeon Phi Processors
>> Access to Intel Xeon Phi processor-based developer platforms.
>> With one year of Intel Parallel Studio XE.
>> Training and support from Colfax.
>> Order your platform today.http://sdm.link/intel
>> ___
>> Emc-users mailing list
>> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
>
>
> --
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Re: [Emc-users] EDM machining, g-code

2016-12-25 Thread TJoseph Powderly 
the edm gcodes are _usually_ fanuc like while the machines position
the mcodes are _not_ similar , these are machine design specific, there 
are similar functions but the codes will be different characters and 
different devices

especially the codes related to the edm power settings ( current voltage 
on off times )
usually these are encoded

for example 12 amperes of current
can be "1/2 channel' in Charmilles
or 4 in AGie ( 3 amps per transistor)
or 12 in my Heidenhain control ( i like to be literal )

for example a single surface finish
would be VDI in european machines
and Ra in Asian machines
and RMS in USA machines ( really silly to use average on a random surface )

what I'm saying is the units of measure vary from manufacturer to 
manufacturer
and the methods used to 'turn them on' varies ( not always gcode nor 
mcode, sometimes a mark in a table on screen!)
and some units of measures are invented by the manufacturer

making sense of the babel of technology CAN be done
in order to make my own technology
i would have to cut thousands of combinations to prove my values were 
true to some curve
i took years to discover that all edm technologies were really the same
just presented in each manufacturere's own specialized terminology
i formulated power curves ( joules ) for each material combination, 
polarity, open voltage
then compared mine to these manufacturers to see if the curves match
they do
so you can predict the overburn and surface finish
given the 'real meaning' of a manufacturer when they say
on time was 0.2a, off time was 22%, current was 1a+2.3
which really meant
on time 12.5uS, off time was 7uS, current was 6.5 amperes in dead short
These simple real data along with the no-load voltage can determine the 
joules of energy dispersed in a good discharge
the joules determine the diameter and depth of crater in a given material
the frequency ( derived from on & off times ) determine the ideal 
removal rate and wear rate (Vw & Ve )

the best technologies for easy understanding are from Handsvedt ( real 
units of measure )
the best explanations are from AGie ( tho older docs use Tau, the 
inverse of duty cycle )
the most convoluted, obfuscated (imo) is Mitsubishi ( everything is 
coded to some scale or lookup table )

so, the gcodes are simple when you dont cut
when cutting, they are connected to databases that are highly localized 
dialects

in the end,
knowing how one manufacturer turns on 1.2bar of flushing, or turns on 
hi-speed jump, or adjusts his anti-arc device
does you no good
understanding that he does control it is useful, the magic words he uses 
it only benifits him

dont work too hard on this database,
learning a few other machines is good experience, but the codes wont 
work on your machine
and wont really help a user to use your machine

its better to do LOTS of cutting
for example: you wont understand the code to increase the gain of the 
position control loop ( very common) untill you see it in action
 you wont understand the adjustment of offtime or 
duty cycle till it bites you with a big flash!

in years of teaching edm machines ( fanuc gcode to heidenhain 
conversational to asian fill-in-the-blank screen systems )
i saw operators who were unwilling to learn a new machine, but quickly 
learn my new machine in just hours or at most a couple days.
people is clever!

i just built linuxcnc-sim on this chromebook and will look at you screen 
controls
please tell us more of what you try to control with all those flushing 
controls!
it seems there is magnitude of flush, and type of flush(pressure / 
vacuum), and tank fill and dump
the area 'Settings' could be anything from on & off time to 
cuttime/jumpdistance/frequency.
the 'Command' area is understandable
regards, & merry Christmas
tomp tjtr33
On 12/25/16 21:54, Nicklas Karlsson wrote:
>>> Happen to know any more or less g-codes for these motions? g-codes 
>>> for control of flush? g-codes for control of EDM power source? 
>> ... i uploaded mcodes before with python commands to change edm 
>> generator on/off/current/polarity 
> I could remember I god some g-code suitable for EDM and are looking 
> for them right now. I have entered g-code for Linuxcnc and Sodick wire 
> EDM in a database, there a problem with a few codes. The database 
> could be rather useful if filled in for more machines and put on the 
> web. I have never machined run a machine and think it could be a good 
> start to read thru which codes are available. 
> --
>  
> Developer Access Program for Intel Xeon Phi Processors Access to Intel 
> Xeon Phi processor-based developer platforms. With one year of Intel 
> Parallel Studio XE. Training and support from Colfax. Order your 
> platform today.http://sdm.link/intel 
> ___ Emc-users mailing list 
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net 
>

Re: [Emc-users] EDM machining, g-code

2016-12-25 Thread Gene Heskett 
On Sunday 25 December 2016 14:48:35 Nicklas Karlsson wrote:

> You only used Linuxcnc? Or do you have other g-codes or *-codes?
>
Thats it, I was the intelligence adjusting the feed rate to keep the 
average current between 1 and 2 amps. :)

> On Sun, 25 Dec 2016 14:30:19 -0500
>
> Gene Heskett  wrote:
> > On Sunday 25 December 2016 09:54:37 Nicklas Karlsson wrote:
> > > > > Happen to know any more or less g-codes for these motions?
> > > > > g-codes for control of flush? g-codes for control of EDM power
> > > > > source?
> > > >
> > > > ...
> > > > i uploaded mcodes before with python commands to change edm
> > > > generator on/off/current/polarity
> > >
> > > I could remember I god some g-code suitable for EDM and are
> > > looking for them right now.
> > >
> > > I have entered g-code for Linuxcnc and Sodick wire EDM in a
> > > database, there a problem with a few codes. The database could be
> > > rather useful if filled in for more machines and put on the web.
> > >
> > > I have never machined run a machine and think it could be a good
> > > start to read thru which codes are available.
> >
> > What I have done with edm is strictly shade tree mechanics, and has
> > used a spinning electrode once with k2 as the dielectric, and the
> > last time with distilled water, which because I was emulating a
> > slitting saw with a thin sheet of brass about 3" OD, just used a
> > very slow feed rate. It took around 30 minutes with the brass
> > spinning at about 150 revs, to make each of the slots I cut in a
> > piece of 1/2" A2 rod, about .8" deep, rotating the workpiece to the
> > next nut flat for an angle reference.
> >
> > This was nearly the last operation after using G76 with a length of
> > cut taper, to make 50 tpi tapered threads on the shaft, and in a
> > nut. The shaft was bored to accept the end of a small ball screw, as
> > is, threads and all, it was inserted into the end of the A2, and the
> > nut drawn up quite tight so the A2 is compressed onto the screw with
> > a death grip. Its driving the x axis screw in the sheldon 11x36
> > conversion I am doing. All sealed up with green threadlocker, if it
> > ever fails, I can make another, maybe even with a bigger screw if I
> > can find one whose nut would have a threaded mount on one end.  No
> > room for the usual nuts flange in the x axis.
> >
> > The first time I was removing two broken 6x32 taps, and while it
> > worked, I had no way to flush the hole, so each hole had to be blown
> > clean with carb cleaner about 20 times because that K2 was so
> > contaminated it was still a short when the electrode had been
> > withdrawn 100 thou. Can you spell PITA?  But I did get the job done
> > and the part salvaged, its the post extension on my toy mill.
> >
> > Thats my story and I'm sticking to it. ;-)
> >
> > > --
> > >  Developer Access Program for Intel Xeon Phi
> > > Processors Access to Intel Xeon Phi processor-based developer
> > > platforms. With one year of Intel Parallel Studio XE.
> > > Training and support from Colfax.
> > > Order your platform today.http://sdm.link/intel
> > > ___
> > > Emc-users mailing list
> > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett
> > --
> > "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
> >  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> > -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> > Genes Web page 
> >
> > 
> >-- Developer Access Program for Intel Xeon Phi Processors
> > Access to Intel Xeon Phi processor-based developer platforms.
> > With one year of Intel Parallel Studio XE.
> > Training and support from Colfax.
> > Order your platform today.http://sdm.link/intel
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
> --
> Developer Access Program for Intel Xeon Phi Processors
> Access to Intel Xeon Phi processor-based developer platforms.
> With one year of Intel Parallel Studio XE.
> Training and support from Colfax.
> Order your platform today.http://sdm.link/intel
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

--
Developer Access Program for Intel Xeon Phi Processors
Access

Re: [Emc-users] EDM machining, g-code

2016-12-25 Thread Nicklas Karlsson 
You only used Linuxcnc? Or do you have other g-codes or *-codes?

On Sun, 25 Dec 2016 14:30:19 -0500
Gene Heskett  wrote:

> On Sunday 25 December 2016 09:54:37 Nicklas Karlsson wrote:
> 
> > > > Happen to know any more or less g-codes for these motions? g-codes
> > > > for control of flush? g-codes for control of EDM power source?
> > >
> > > ...
> > > i uploaded mcodes before with python commands to change edm
> > > generator on/off/current/polarity
> >
> > I could remember I god some g-code suitable for EDM and are looking
> > for them right now.
> >
> > I have entered g-code for Linuxcnc and Sodick wire EDM in a database,
> > there a problem with a few codes. The database could be rather useful
> > if filled in for more machines and put on the web.
> >
> > I have never machined run a machine and think it could be a good start
> > to read thru which codes are available.
> >
> What I have done with edm is strictly shade tree mechanics, and has used 
> a spinning electrode once with k2 as the dielectric, and the last time 
> with distilled water, which because I was emulating a slitting saw with 
> a thin sheet of brass about 3" OD, just used a very slow feed rate. It 
> took around 30 minutes with the brass spinning at about 150 revs, to 
> make each of the slots I cut in a piece of 1/2" A2 rod, about .8" deep, 
> rotating the workpiece to the next nut flat for an angle reference.
> 
> This was nearly the last operation after using G76 with a length of cut 
> taper, to make 50 tpi tapered threads on the shaft, and in a nut. The 
> shaft was bored to accept the end of a small ball screw, as is, threads 
> and all, it was inserted into the end of the A2, and the nut drawn up 
> quite tight so the A2 is compressed onto the screw with a death grip. 
> Its driving the x axis screw in the sheldon 11x36 conversion I am doing.  
> All sealed up with green threadlocker, if it ever fails, I can make 
> another, maybe even with a bigger screw if I can find one whose nut 
> would have a threaded mount on one end.  No room for the usual nuts 
> flange in the x axis.
> 
> The first time I was removing two broken 6x32 taps, and while it worked, 
> I had no way to flush the hole, so each hole had to be blown clean with 
> carb cleaner about 20 times because that K2 was so contaminated it was 
> still a short when the electrode had been withdrawn 100 thou. Can you 
> spell PITA?  But I did get the job done and the part salvaged, its the 
> post extension on my toy mill.
> 
> Thats my story and I'm sticking to it. ;-)
> 
> > --
> > Developer Access Program for Intel Xeon Phi Processors
> > Access to Intel Xeon Phi processor-based developer platforms.
> > With one year of Intel Parallel Studio XE.
> > Training and support from Colfax.
> > Order your platform today.http://sdm.link/intel
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> 
> 
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> -- 
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> Genes Web page 
> 
> --
> Developer Access Program for Intel Xeon Phi Processors
> Access to Intel Xeon Phi processor-based developer platforms.
> With one year of Intel Parallel Studio XE.
> Training and support from Colfax.
> Order your platform today.http://sdm.link/intel
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

--
Developer Access Program for Intel Xeon Phi Processors
Access to Intel Xeon Phi processor-based developer platforms.
With one year of Intel Parallel Studio XE.
Training and support from Colfax.
Order your platform today.http://sdm.link/intel
___
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Re: [Emc-users] EDM machining, g-code

2016-12-25 Thread Gene Heskett 
On Sunday 25 December 2016 09:54:37 Nicklas Karlsson wrote:

> > > Happen to know any more or less g-codes for these motions? g-codes
> > > for control of flush? g-codes for control of EDM power source?
> >
> > ...
> > i uploaded mcodes before with python commands to change edm
> > generator on/off/current/polarity
>
> I could remember I god some g-code suitable for EDM and are looking
> for them right now.
>
> I have entered g-code for Linuxcnc and Sodick wire EDM in a database,
> there a problem with a few codes. The database could be rather useful
> if filled in for more machines and put on the web.
>
> I have never machined run a machine and think it could be a good start
> to read thru which codes are available.
>
What I have done with edm is strictly shade tree mechanics, and has used 
a spinning electrode once with k2 as the dielectric, and the last time 
with distilled water, which because I was emulating a slitting saw with 
a thin sheet of brass about 3" OD, just used a very slow feed rate. It 
took around 30 minutes with the brass spinning at about 150 revs, to 
make each of the slots I cut in a piece of 1/2" A2 rod, about .8" deep, 
rotating the workpiece to the next nut flat for an angle reference.

This was nearly the last operation after using G76 with a length of cut 
taper, to make 50 tpi tapered threads on the shaft, and in a nut. The 
shaft was bored to accept the end of a small ball screw, as is, threads 
and all, it was inserted into the end of the A2, and the nut drawn up 
quite tight so the A2 is compressed onto the screw with a death grip. 
Its driving the x axis screw in the sheldon 11x36 conversion I am doing.  
All sealed up with green threadlocker, if it ever fails, I can make 
another, maybe even with a bigger screw if I can find one whose nut 
would have a threaded mount on one end.  No room for the usual nuts 
flange in the x axis.

The first time I was removing two broken 6x32 taps, and while it worked, 
I had no way to flush the hole, so each hole had to be blown clean with 
carb cleaner about 20 times because that K2 was so contaminated it was 
still a short when the electrode had been withdrawn 100 thou. Can you 
spell PITA?  But I did get the job done and the part salvaged, its the 
post extension on my toy mill.

Thats my story and I'm sticking to it. ;-)

> --
> Developer Access Program for Intel Xeon Phi Processors
> Access to Intel Xeon Phi processor-based developer platforms.
> With one year of Intel Parallel Studio XE.
> Training and support from Colfax.
> Order your platform today.http://sdm.link/intel
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

--
Developer Access Program for Intel Xeon Phi Processors
Access to Intel Xeon Phi processor-based developer platforms.
With one year of Intel Parallel Studio XE.
Training and support from Colfax.
Order your platform today.http://sdm.link/intel
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
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Re: [Emc-users] EDM machining, g-code

2016-12-25 Thread Nicklas Karlsson 
> > Happen to know any more or less g-codes for these motions? g-codes for 
> > control of flush? g-codes for control of EDM power source?
> ...
> i uploaded mcodes before with python commands to change edm generator 
> on/off/current/polarity

I could remember I god some g-code suitable for EDM and are looking for them 
right now.

I have entered g-code for Linuxcnc and Sodick wire EDM in a database, there a 
problem with a few codes. The database could be rather useful if filled in for 
more machines and put on the web.

I have never machined run a machine and think it could be a good start to read 
thru which codes are available.

--
Developer Access Program for Intel Xeon Phi Processors
Access to Intel Xeon Phi processor-based developer platforms.
With one year of Intel Parallel Studio XE.
Training and support from Colfax.
Order your platform today.http://sdm.link/intel
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
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