Re: [Emc-users] Easy 3D Re: Correct use of subroutines
--- On Tue, 5/14/13, Kent A. Reed kentallanr...@gmail.com wrote: When I was still at NIST, the standing joke was the wonderful thing about standards is there are so many of them. USB, remember when it was one connector that would work for all devices? How many different and incompatible USB connectors are there now? I don't see how micro USB is any better than mini USB. Micro isn't that much thinner than mini. Almost every device I've seen with the micro connector has been plenty thick enough for the mini connector. I've never had a mini B connector with problems but the micro B on my less than 2 year old phone is getting iffy on its power connection. I've run into quite a few programs in 30 years of computer use that couldn't open file formats they could save to. It's a special kind of genius to code a program like that. :P Opening formats it can't save to isn't near as bad, as long as the software can do a decent job of saving to a different format it can open. Occasionally, a new activity gets underway, often with great fanfare, to forge the one ring to bind them all but no one has succeeded yet and I don't expect success to come in my lifetime. E-books could be that way. I'd love a multi-platform reader program that could open LIT, Plucker, Mobi/Kindle, TealDoc, PalmDoc, Epub, Rocket and Sony formats, plus being extendible via plugins or format description files (which could be user-editable/creatable text files) for other formats. It's absolutely possible but won't happen because people are too damn apathetic and keep bending over and taking it in the end whenever the publishing industry comes up with yet another format. Instead of creating One Ultimate Reader there's many conversion utilities such as Calibre. I'd much rather have OUR (as in our software, not theirs) and never ever have to convert an e-book from one format to another. I have a very large collection of books in PalmDoc. The Kindle app for Android used to support that format but Amazon decided to break that in a half-arsed way. So if I want to read those on my phone I have to convert them, or dig out one of my old Palm PDAs. If I has the big $$ I'd do a software bounty to bribe some programmers to create OUR, then put the code into public domain with a GPL. Why? For my own convenience and as a poke in the eye to the industry that keeps creating all those incompatible file formats to try and tie readers down to their device or their software. One Ultimate Reader, OUR software, not theirs! -- AlienVault Unified Security Management (USM) platform delivers complete security visibility with the essential security capabilities. Easily and efficiently configure, manage, and operate all of your security controls from a single console and one unified framework. Download a free trial. http://p.sf.net/sfu/alienvault_d2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Easy 3D Re: Correct use of subroutines
Greg; is the inability to import VRML 2.0 though trueSpace can export VRML 1.0 and 2.0 - but who cares about VRML anymore? ;-) VRML 1.0 is dead, VRML 2.0 is the basis of X3D, which is still used, and is the basis of some interesting behind the scenes things - having worked with one technical head of a large internet 3D printing company, their internal format is X3D - it really makes a great internal format. (Name of company withheld, but everybody here has heard of it) (comment - I was quite involved in VRML/X3D for many years, and even still produce a viewer for Android that sells quite well. Internally, I change STL into VRML, as it renders much faster because VRML/X3D has the ability to organize the rendering, while STL is utter chaos) Just a FYI on this nice sunny Tuesday. John A. Stewart. -- AlienVault Unified Security Management (USM) platform delivers complete security visibility with the essential security capabilities. Easily and efficiently configure, manage, and operate all of your security controls from a single console and one unified framework. Download a free trial. http://p.sf.net/sfu/alienvault_d2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Easy 3D Re: Correct use of subroutines
On 5/14/2013 3:10 PM, John Stewart wrote: Greg; is the inability to import VRML 2.0 though trueSpace can export VRML 1.0 and 2.0 - but who cares about VRML anymore? ;-) VRML 1.0 is dead, VRML 2.0 is the basis of X3D, which is still used, and is the basis of some interesting behind the scenes things - having worked with one technical head of a large internet 3D printing company, their internal format is X3D - it really makes a great internal format. (Name of company withheld, but everybody here has heard of it) (comment - I was quite involved in VRML/X3D for many years, and even still produce a viewer for Android that sells quite well. Internally, I change STL into VRML, as it renders much faster because VRML/X3D has the ability to organize the rendering, while STL is utter chaos) Just a FYI on this nice sunny Tuesday. John A. Stewart. Not trying to step on your toes, John, especially since I largely agree, yet... I managed to hold my tongue during the ongoing jeremiad about G-Code but now this thread has metastasized into statements about information interchange in general. When I was still at NIST, the standing joke was the wonderful thing about standards is there are so many of them. I'll spare folks a recitation of all the national and international information interchange specification projects in which I've participated or been an observer/commenter. What matters more than the specific interchange specification is that the sending application and the receiving application share an understanding of the information to be interchanged and that the purpose of the interchange is known. If this is so, then many different specifications can be made to work, even some that seem unlikely. If it isn't so, then no specification is likely to please. It might seem that focusing on just geometry would make the problem easy and superficially it does, but the word geometry is hopelessly imprecise. And don't get me started on the problems the translator writers have (or introduce) implementing the specifications! Bottom line, be happy if a particular interchange scheme works for you (that's the editorial 'you') but don't be surprised if others disagree with your choice and best give up any hope you may harbor that one specification will win out over all the others. Occasionally, a new activity gets underway, often with great fanfare, to forge the one ring to bind them all but no one has succeeded yet and I don't expect success to come in my lifetime. Just my 2 centavos on what was also a nice sunny Tuesday here in G-Burg. Regards, Kent -- AlienVault Unified Security Management (USM) platform delivers complete security visibility with the essential security capabilities. Easily and efficiently configure, manage, and operate all of your security controls from a single console and one unified framework. Download a free trial. http://p.sf.net/sfu/alienvault_d2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Easy 3D Re: Correct use of subroutines
On 14 May 2013 22:31, Kent A. Reed kentallanr...@gmail.com wrote: When I was still at NIST, the standing joke was the wonderful thing about standards is there are so many of them. http://xkcd.com/927/ -- atp If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- AlienVault Unified Security Management (USM) platform delivers complete security visibility with the essential security capabilities. Easily and efficiently configure, manage, and operate all of your security controls from a single console and one unified framework. Download a free trial. http://p.sf.net/sfu/alienvault_d2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] Easy 3D Re: Correct use of subroutines
--- On Mon, 5/13/13, Ed Nisley ed.08.nis...@pobox.com wrote: clip The real problem (and it *is* a real problem) then becomes generating the model geometry. Based on a very small sample, non-techies have trouble with 3D modeling and fancier CAD programs aren't the answer... I use trueSpace. Microsoft bought Caligari, intending trueSpace to compete against Google's Sketchup. Sketchup is used for people to make 3D models for Google Earth. Microsoft wanted people to use trueSpace to make 3D models for their Virtual Earth (now Bing Maps 3D). The then current version of trueSpace was released for free, a couple of updates were released, and a version without the legacy 6.6 Model Side. Then for some reason Microsoft decided to abandon the product. If one knows where to look, the last version with both Model and Workspace sides can be downloaded. Officially the current free release is 7.61 with only Workspace side. trueSpace can output quite a number of file formats, but for some like DXF and STL it's best to hit the Triangulate button before exporting. Like so many other 3D modeling programs that have a long history, the user interface is... odd. Like Lightwave, trueSpace got its start on Amiga and the Windows versions inherited the Amiga version's quirks. I've been using it since version 2 for Windows. Been trying to find a copy of Conversions Pack 2.1, which is the only version that works with trueSpace 6.6. CP 2.0 only works with tS 6.5. Conversions Pack adds more file format support. One odd lack, even in the 7.x versions, is the inability to import VRML 2.0 though trueSpace can export VRML 1.0 and 2.0 - but who cares about VRML anymore? ;-) As for sketchup, unless it's seen some massive debugging and improvements, it's a very nice utility for creating some of the most fouled up 3D geometry I've ever seen. Disconnected edges and vertexes, multiple polygons sharing the same location, edges just butted together and occupying the same space instead of being properly joined, intersecting polygons and every other wrong way to create a 3D mesh. I assume that if a Sketchup user knows the program's quirks and how to beat it into submission to make it produce a good mesh, it can be a usable modeler. The problem is in the quest to make it easy to produce 3D models, Sketchup also made it easy to produce bad 3D models. It helps a lot to have some background in non-computerized drafting, including isometric and other 3D methods plus perspective drawing. I also grew up with a ceramics business and learned about mold making, parting lines, draft angles etc. All that's applicable to any sort of 3D manufacturing, especially for molding and casting. -- AlienVault Unified Security Management (USM) platform delivers complete security visibility with the essential security capabilities. Easily and efficiently configure, manage, and operate all of your security controls from a single console and one unified framework. Download a free trial. http://p.sf.net/sfu/alienvault_d2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Easy 3D Re: Correct use of subroutines
On 05/13/2013 06:41 PM, Gregg Eshelman wrote: As for sketchup, unless it's seen some massive debugging and improvements, it's a very nice utility for creating some of the most fouled up 3D geometry Aye! But the objects *look* good, so they should print fine. Right? [wince] I've given up explaining why Sketchup isn't good for solid modeling, but I also no longer (try to) advise people who have a totally botched model what went wrong. That maximizes the total happiness. But Sketchup seems to be the least user-hostile program out there for folks who want to build things. OpenSCAD definitely isn't the answer and traditional CAD/CAM packages aren't for those folks, either. 'Tis a puzzlement. -- Ed softsolder.com -- AlienVault Unified Security Management (USM) platform delivers complete security visibility with the essential security capabilities. Easily and efficiently configure, manage, and operate all of your security controls from a single console and one unified framework. Download a free trial. http://p.sf.net/sfu/alienvault_d2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Easy 3D Re: Correct use of subroutines
On 13 May 2013 23:41, Gregg Eshelman g_ala...@yahoo.com wrote: The real problem (and it *is* a real problem) then becomes generating the model geometry. Based on a very small sample, non-techies have trouble with 3D modeling and fancier CAD programs aren't the answer... Autodesk Inventor Fusion is pretty slick, and you can't argue with the price. I actually miss all the control that I have with the fully parametric modeller that is in the full version of Inventor, but I can imagine that if you weren't coming from that background then you wouldn't miss it. The modeller in Maya is also fairly free-form. I think that Rhino is too, though I have never tried it. -- atp If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- AlienVault Unified Security Management (USM) platform delivers complete security visibility with the essential security capabilities. Easily and efficiently configure, manage, and operate all of your security controls from a single console and one unified framework. Download a free trial. http://p.sf.net/sfu/alienvault_d2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Easy 3D Re: Correct use of subroutines
Google got lucky. Sold Sketch up to Trimble (so they can generate poorly triangulated surveyed surfaces). Microsoft just got to abandon their product. On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 7:29 PM, andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com wrote: On 13 May 2013 23:41, Gregg Eshelman g_ala...@yahoo.com wrote: The real problem (and it *is* a real problem) then becomes generating the model geometry. Based on a very small sample, non-techies have trouble with 3D modeling and fancier CAD programs aren't the answer... Autodesk Inventor Fusion is pretty slick, and you can't argue with the price. I actually miss all the control that I have with the fully parametric modeller that is in the full version of Inventor, but I can imagine that if you weren't coming from that background then you wouldn't miss it. The modeller in Maya is also fairly free-form. I think that Rhino is too, though I have never tried it. -- atp If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- AlienVault Unified Security Management (USM) platform delivers complete security visibility with the essential security capabilities. Easily and efficiently configure, manage, and operate all of your security controls from a single console and one unified framework. Download a free trial. http://p.sf.net/sfu/alienvault_d2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- AlienVault Unified Security Management (USM) platform delivers complete security visibility with the essential security capabilities. Easily and efficiently configure, manage, and operate all of your security controls from a single console and one unified framework. Download a free trial. http://p.sf.net/sfu/alienvault_d2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
