Re: [Emc-users] Question regarding fuses, line reactors

[Dave Cole]

Some higher end VFDs have line filters built in.   Might want to check 
to see if yours does before you
buy a filter.

Dave

On 11/1/2016 10:06 PM, Jon Elson wrote:
> On 11/01/2016 07:33 AM, John Alexander Stewart wrote:
>> Line Reactors. 10A. Generally a good idea or not really worth worrying
>> about?
>>
>>
> Well, if you have interference problems, especially when the
> spindle is running, then you may benefit from them.  I had a
> few things close to my mill that showed interference, one
> was the computer monitor on the CNC control had "fuzz" on
> the screen only when the spindle was running.  I put a
> heavy-duty line filter box on the VFD input, and it went away.
>
> Jon
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Question regarding fuses, line reactors

[Jon Elson]

On 11/01/2016 07:33 AM, John Alexander Stewart wrote:
> Line Reactors. 10A. Generally a good idea or not really worth worrying
> about?
>
>
Well, if you have interference problems, especially when the 
spindle is running, then you may benefit from them.  I had a 
few things close to my mill that showed interference, one 
was the computer monitor on the CNC control had "fuzz" on 
the screen only when the spindle was running.  I put a 
heavy-duty line filter box on the VFD input, and it went away.

Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] Question regarding fuses, line reactors

[Gene Heskett]

On Tuesday 01 November 2016 08:33:39 John Alexander Stewart wrote:

> Hi all;
>
> Back to my CNC lathe project; it has sat dormant for a few years now.
>
> Opinions wanted:
>
> The VFD suggests 10a external fuses, plus a line filter. I'm running
> this on 240v, over here in North America.
>
Same here John. NEC wiring & all that.

> Are 10A slow blow 250v glass fuses ok for this application?  Is it
> overkill to fuse both hot leads, I presume so, but if I'm going to the
> bother of putting in 1 fuse holder... Also, I could use class J fuses,
> but note that glass fuses seem to be just fine for other workshop
> equipment.
>
> Line Reactors. 10A. Generally a good idea or not really worth worrying
> about?

I am not using any reactors, and it hasn't caused any problems that I am 
aware of yet. Circuit breaker is a dual 20 amp IIRC since I'm feeding 
the vfd from 254 volts, ct grounded at the service. 10A slow breakers 
are 5+ times the cost of the quick 20's in this neck of the woods.  And 
special order. I am not in steady use yet but have left it running an 
exercise loop in lcnc for an hour at a time. 1.5 hp rated vfd, 1 hp @ 60 
Hz 3 phase motor about 35 yo that I put fresh bearings in. Bought 2 of 
them at a scrap dealer for a $50 bill.  Seems to be good up to 150Hz, or 
4500 rpms if the motors fan whine can be tolerated.  The lathe is an 
11x36 Sheldon with a screw on chuck. :(  Got to figure a way to pin that 
puppy. :)

The reactors, AIUI, should improve the power factor, which your electric 
meter may be sensitive to, and they _might_ reduce your electric bill. I 
expect you would have to meter it by itself to be able to detect the 
diff though.

> The 3-phase from the VFD will be in a metal braid for shielding,
> grounded at the VFD end. The 4-wire cable will have the U-V-W +
> ground, weird to ground both the VFD side and the motor, but that's
> the way it's done, I guess.

I have mine in that blue plastic thats almost flexible, with a separate 
ground wire to the motor frame from the static neutral at the vfd.

> The lathe is an 8x18, Austrian made lathe. Would have loved a Tormach,
> but the size of the thing would mean a new house, and *that* gets
> expensive.
>
I hear that, this 11x36 completes my garage, no wasted space if the 
midden heap is counted.

> Thanks - John.
> --
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
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Re: [Emc-users] Question regarding fuses, line reactors

[Dave Cole]

https://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/Circuit_Protection_-z-_Fuses_-z-_Disconnects/UL_1077_Rated_Supplementary_Protectors/Double_Pole_Supplementary_Protectors_(0.5A-63A,_FAZ_Series)/D_Curve_(0.5A-40A,_FAZ-DXX-2)

$18 for a two pole breaker.  Din rail is about $1.00 /ft.
You shut it off before sticking your hands in the drive/motor wiring.  
It is right there and you can see it and not have to "remember" if you 
pulled the plug or not.  You will do that a lot as you start up a new 
CNC machine.

Dave


On 11/1/2016 9:40 AM, John Alexander Stewart wrote:
> Andy - that's a good point about "plug-in" equipment.
>
> The lathe with original motor does not have a fuse, nor does my larger
> plug-in lathe, nor my mill. All with capacitor start "2-phase" motors;
> either 120v or 240v. My 240v circuit is fused for 15A. I generally only run
> 1 machine at a time, so one 15A 240v circuit has done me well for a couple
> of decades.
>
> Maybe I'm over thinking this...
>
> John.
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 1, 2016 at 8:59 AM, andy pugh  wrote:
>
>> On 1 November 2016 at 12:33, John Alexander Stewart 
>> wrote:
>>> The VFD suggests 10a external fuses, plus a line filter. I'm running this
>>> on 240v, over here in North America.
>> I don't know what your standards are in the US, but as the lathe is
>> "plug-in" equipment it may be that it doesn't matter.
>> I tend to prefer MCBs to fuses. In the UK the domestic-wiring
>> suppliers only go down to 3A, which may be too big for some equipment
>> wiring. My 12V/60W power supplies ended up with 1A class D breakers
>> from RS but even those were not slow enough for the PSU inrush
>> current.
>>
>> For the input-side filter, search eBay for the "Rasmi" brand. Lots of
>> different types and pretty inexpensive.
>>
>> --
>> atp
>> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
>> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
>> lunatics."
>> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
>>
>> 
>> --
>> Developer Access Program for Intel Xeon Phi Processors
>> Access to Intel Xeon Phi processor-based developer platforms.
>> With one year of Intel Parallel Studio XE.
>> Training and support from Colfax.
>> Order your platform today. http://sdm.link/xeonphi
>> ___
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>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>>
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Re: [Emc-users] Question regarding fuses, line reactors

[Dave Cole]

Regardless of code provisions;  From a practical standpoint I would 
install a two pole breaker in the lathe control box, so you can 
disconnect the power at that point without going to the plug or 
house/garage breaker to disconnect the machine.   You should also have 
some Estop/Big red stop button provision for your own safety.  J 
class fuses are current limiting fuses designed to limit the amount of 
energy available when a short circuit or ground fault occurs.They 
are commonly used in factory machines to limit damage when an electrical 
fault occurs.   However house/garage wiring in the US can't deliver that 
much energy so current limiting is really not a concern.  Class J fuses 
are also very expensive.   A two pole 10 amp Curve D breaker can be 
cheaper than one class J 10 amp fuse.

http://www.fusesunlimited.com/Products/ClassJFuse/
Automation Direct has good prices on two pole breakers in the US but 
there are also many other sources.

A line filters prior to the inverter is used to prevent interference 
between the drive and everything else you have in your house/garage.
Inverters can be extremely noisy and can really screw with things such 
as computers, like your LinuxCNC computer!You really want to use a 
line filter.

Dave

On 11/1/2016 8:42 AM, Todd Zuercher wrote:
> No, it is not overkill to fuse both (or all 3 with 3 phase) "hot" lines, it 
> is code.
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "John Alexander Stewart" 
> To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
> Sent: Tuesday, November 1, 2016 8:33:39 AM
> Subject: [Emc-users] Question regarding fuses, line reactors
>
> Hi all;
>
> Back to my CNC lathe project; it has sat dormant for a few years now.
>
> Opinions wanted:
>
> The VFD suggests 10a external fuses, plus a line filter. I'm running this
> on 240v, over here in North America.
>
> Are 10A slow blow 250v glass fuses ok for this application?  Is it overkill
> to fuse both hot leads, I presume so, but if I'm going to the bother of
> putting in 1 fuse holder... Also, I could use class J fuses, but note that
> glass fuses seem to be just fine for other workshop equipment.
>
> Line Reactors. 10A. Generally a good idea or not really worth worrying
> about?
>
> The 3-phase from the VFD will be in a metal braid for shielding, grounded
> at the VFD end. The 4-wire cable will have the U-V-W + ground, weird to
> ground both the VFD side and the motor, but that's the way it's done, I
> guess.
>
> The lathe is an 8x18, Austrian made lathe. Would have loved a Tormach, but
> the size of the thing would mean a new house, and *that* gets expensive.
>
> Thanks - John.
> --
> Developer Access Program for Intel Xeon Phi Processors
> Access to Intel Xeon Phi processor-based developer platforms.
> With one year of Intel Parallel Studio XE.
> Training and support from Colfax.
> Order your platform today. http://sdm.link/xeonphi
> ___
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> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
> --
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> Training and support from Colfax.
> Order your platform today. http://sdm.link/xeonphi
> ___
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> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

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Re: [Emc-users] Question regarding fuses, line reactors

[John Alexander Stewart]

Andy - that's a good point about "plug-in" equipment.

The lathe with original motor does not have a fuse, nor does my larger
plug-in lathe, nor my mill. All with capacitor start "2-phase" motors;
either 120v or 240v. My 240v circuit is fused for 15A. I generally only run
1 machine at a time, so one 15A 240v circuit has done me well for a couple
of decades.

Maybe I'm over thinking this...

John.




On Tue, Nov 1, 2016 at 8:59 AM, andy pugh  wrote:

> On 1 November 2016 at 12:33, John Alexander Stewart 
> wrote:
> > The VFD suggests 10a external fuses, plus a line filter. I'm running this
> > on 240v, over here in North America.
>
> I don't know what your standards are in the US, but as the lathe is
> "plug-in" equipment it may be that it doesn't matter.
> I tend to prefer MCBs to fuses. In the UK the domestic-wiring
> suppliers only go down to 3A, which may be too big for some equipment
> wiring. My 12V/60W power supplies ended up with 1A class D breakers
> from RS but even those were not slow enough for the PSU inrush
> current.
>
> For the input-side filter, search eBay for the "Rasmi" brand. Lots of
> different types and pretty inexpensive.
>
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
>
> 
> --
> Developer Access Program for Intel Xeon Phi Processors
> Access to Intel Xeon Phi processor-based developer platforms.
> With one year of Intel Parallel Studio XE.
> Training and support from Colfax.
> Order your platform today. http://sdm.link/xeonphi
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Question regarding fuses, line reactors

[andy pugh]

On 1 November 2016 at 12:33, John Alexander Stewart  wrote:
> The VFD suggests 10a external fuses, plus a line filter. I'm running this
> on 240v, over here in North America.

I don't know what your standards are in the US, but as the lathe is
"plug-in" equipment it may be that it doesn't matter.
I tend to prefer MCBs to fuses. In the UK the domestic-wiring
suppliers only go down to 3A, which may be too big for some equipment
wiring. My 12V/60W power supplies ended up with 1A class D breakers
from RS but even those were not slow enough for the PSU inrush
current.

For the input-side filter, search eBay for the "Rasmi" brand. Lots of
different types and pretty inexpensive.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

--
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Re: [Emc-users] Question regarding fuses, line reactors

[Todd Zuercher]

No, it is not overkill to fuse both (or all 3 with 3 phase) "hot" lines, it is 
code.

- Original Message -
From: "John Alexander Stewart" 
To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
Sent: Tuesday, November 1, 2016 8:33:39 AM
Subject: [Emc-users] Question regarding fuses, line reactors

Hi all;

Back to my CNC lathe project; it has sat dormant for a few years now.

Opinions wanted:

The VFD suggests 10a external fuses, plus a line filter. I'm running this
on 240v, over here in North America.

Are 10A slow blow 250v glass fuses ok for this application?  Is it overkill
to fuse both hot leads, I presume so, but if I'm going to the bother of
putting in 1 fuse holder... Also, I could use class J fuses, but note that
glass fuses seem to be just fine for other workshop equipment.

Line Reactors. 10A. Generally a good idea or not really worth worrying
about?

The 3-phase from the VFD will be in a metal braid for shielding, grounded
at the VFD end. The 4-wire cable will have the U-V-W + ground, weird to
ground both the VFD side and the motor, but that's the way it's done, I
guess.

The lathe is an 8x18, Austrian made lathe. Would have loved a Tormach, but
the size of the thing would mean a new house, and *that* gets expensive.

Thanks - John.
--
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[Emc-users] Question regarding fuses, line reactors

[John Alexander Stewart]

Hi all;

Back to my CNC lathe project; it has sat dormant for a few years now.

Opinions wanted:

The VFD suggests 10a external fuses, plus a line filter. I'm running this
on 240v, over here in North America.

Are 10A slow blow 250v glass fuses ok for this application?  Is it overkill
to fuse both hot leads, I presume so, but if I'm going to the bother of
putting in 1 fuse holder... Also, I could use class J fuses, but note that
glass fuses seem to be just fine for other workshop equipment.

Line Reactors. 10A. Generally a good idea or not really worth worrying
about?

The 3-phase from the VFD will be in a metal braid for shielding, grounded
at the VFD end. The 4-wire cable will have the U-V-W + ground, weird to
ground both the VFD side and the motor, but that's the way it's done, I
guess.

The lathe is an 8x18, Austrian made lathe. Would have loved a Tormach, but
the size of the thing would mean a new house, and *that* gets expensive.

Thanks - John.
--
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With one year of Intel Parallel Studio XE.
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