Re: [Emc-users] Realtime Error ?

2016-05-06 Thread Jim Craig
OK, I see the following in the documentation:

When you get this error:

RTAPI: ERROR: Unexpected realtime delay on task n

This error is generated by rtapi based on an indication from RTAI that a 
deadline was missed. It is usually an indication that the BASE_PERIOD in 
the [EMCMOT] section of the ini file is set too low. You should run the 
Latency Test for an extended period of time to see if you have any 
delays that would cause this problem. If you used the Stepconf Wizard, 
run it again, and test the Base Period Jitter again, and adjust the Base 
Period Maximum Jitter on the Basic Machine Information page. You might 
have to leave the test running for an extended period of time to find 
out if some hardware causes intermittent problems.

LinuxCNC tracks the number of CPU cycles between invocations of the 
real-time thread. If some element of your hardware is causing delays or 
your realtime threads are set too fast you will get this error.

Note
This error is only displayed once per session. If you had your 
BASE_PERIOD too low you could get hundreds of thousands of error 
messages per second if more than one was displayed.





So I need to either increase the base period or do something to lower my 
jitter.

I will work on it and see what happens.

Any other advise would be welcome.

Thanks,

Jim


On 5/6/2016 11:27 AM, Jim Craig wrote:
> Jon,
>
> I did mean us, not ms. I sent another message to try and clear the muddy
> waters on that one.
>
> So what is the jitter limit at which the realtime error is thrown? Is
> this something that can be changed in the configuration somewhere?
>
> I have been under the impression that 25us is acceptable for stepping as
> long as you can generate the speed you need within the acceptable
> limits. Many have claimed that you need very low jitter values and
> others have claimed that it is not as critical as some make it seem.
>
> I did notice that nothing was changing in the halfile when I would
> change the jitter value in stepconf. I was curious if this was changing
> anything except the theoretical maximum pulse rate and therefore the
> theoretical maximum velocity.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jim
>
>
>
> On 5/6/2016 11:06 AM, Jon Elson wrote:
>> On 05/06/2016 09:12 AM, Jim Craig wrote:
>>> I have set up my router with my new computer. This computer runs at
>>> about 25ms jitter on the base thread for hours with 2 glxgears running,
>>> moving windows, copying files etc.
>> I hope that is 25 us, not ms.  25 us is not great, as it
>> causes a 2.5% fluctuation in the sampling period.
>>> This system runs off a parport, and I set initially set it up in
>>> stepconf wizard to have a 30ms jitter value.
>>>
>>> When I run LinuxCNC I get a realtime error a few minutes after I start
>>> the program.
>> The realtime error message tells the magnitude of the error,
>> that is important.  If it doesn't exceed your 25 us jitter,
>> that is not a disaster.  But, the realtime error message
>> only fires once per run of LinuxCNC, and so you are then
>> blind to any more serious errors that happen later.  Not a
>> great situation.
>>> I am using 2.7.4. This is repeatable and happens each and
>>> every time I run LinuxCNC.
>> Yes, you will only get the message once.  That does NOT mean
>> that the error in not happening again!
>>> I reran stepconf and changed the jitter value to 50ms to see if that
>>> would fix it and it did not change anything.
>>>
>>>
>> Stepconf has NOTHING to do with anything except software
>> stepping, so it certainly will not "fix" this problem.
>> What you did will generate a more conservative software
>> stepping configs file set.
>>
>> Jon
>>
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Re: [Emc-users] Realtime Error ?

2016-05-06 Thread Jim Craig
Jon,

I did mean us, not ms. I sent another message to try and clear the muddy 
waters on that one.

So what is the jitter limit at which the realtime error is thrown? Is 
this something that can be changed in the configuration somewhere?

I have been under the impression that 25us is acceptable for stepping as 
long as you can generate the speed you need within the acceptable 
limits. Many have claimed that you need very low jitter values and 
others have claimed that it is not as critical as some make it seem.

I did notice that nothing was changing in the halfile when I would 
change the jitter value in stepconf. I was curious if this was changing 
anything except the theoretical maximum pulse rate and therefore the 
theoretical maximum velocity.

Thanks,

Jim



On 5/6/2016 11:06 AM, Jon Elson wrote:
> On 05/06/2016 09:12 AM, Jim Craig wrote:
>> I have set up my router with my new computer. This computer runs at
>> about 25ms jitter on the base thread for hours with 2 glxgears running,
>> moving windows, copying files etc.
> I hope that is 25 us, not ms.  25 us is not great, as it
> causes a 2.5% fluctuation in the sampling period.
>> This system runs off a parport, and I set initially set it up in
>> stepconf wizard to have a 30ms jitter value.
>>
>> When I run LinuxCNC I get a realtime error a few minutes after I start
>> the program.
> The realtime error message tells the magnitude of the error,
> that is important.  If it doesn't exceed your 25 us jitter,
> that is not a disaster.  But, the realtime error message
> only fires once per run of LinuxCNC, and so you are then
> blind to any more serious errors that happen later.  Not a
> great situation.
>>I am using 2.7.4. This is repeatable and happens each and
>> every time I run LinuxCNC.
> Yes, you will only get the message once.  That does NOT mean
> that the error in not happening again!
>> I reran stepconf and changed the jitter value to 50ms to see if that
>> would fix it and it did not change anything.
>>
>>
> Stepconf has NOTHING to do with anything except software
> stepping, so it certainly will not "fix" this problem.
> What you did will generate a more conservative software
> stepping configs file set.
>
> Jon
>
> --
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> Applications Manager provides deep performance insights into multiple tiers of
> your business applications. It resolves application problems quickly and
> reduces your MTTR. Get your free trial!
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Re: [Emc-users] Realtime Error ?

2016-05-06 Thread Jon Elson
On 05/06/2016 09:12 AM, Jim Craig wrote:
> I have set up my router with my new computer. This computer runs at
> about 25ms jitter on the base thread for hours with 2 glxgears running,
> moving windows, copying files etc.
I hope that is 25 us, not ms.  25 us is not great, as it 
causes a 2.5% fluctuation in the sampling period.
> This system runs off a parport, and I set initially set it up in
> stepconf wizard to have a 30ms jitter value.
>
> When I run LinuxCNC I get a realtime error a few minutes after I start
> the program.
The realtime error message tells the magnitude of the error, 
that is important.  If it doesn't exceed your 25 us jitter, 
that is not a disaster.  But, the realtime error message 
only fires once per run of LinuxCNC, and so you are then 
blind to any more serious errors that happen later.  Not a 
great situation.
>   I am using 2.7.4. This is repeatable and happens each and
> every time I run LinuxCNC.
Yes, you will only get the message once.  That does NOT mean 
that the error in not happening again!
> I reran stepconf and changed the jitter value to 50ms to see if that
> would fix it and it did not change anything.
>
>
Stepconf has NOTHING to do with anything except software 
stepping, so it certainly will not "fix" this problem.
What you did will generate a more conservative software 
stepping configs file set.

Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] Realtime Error ?

2016-05-06 Thread Jim Craig
and by ms in my previous email I meant micro seconds not milliseconds.

sorry for any confusion.

Jim

On 5/6/2016 9:12 AM, Jim Craig wrote:
> I have set up my router with my new computer. This computer runs at
> about 25ms jitter on the base thread for hours with 2 glxgears running,
> moving windows, copying files etc.
>
> This system runs off a parport, and I set initially set it up in
> stepconf wizard to have a 30ms jitter value.
>
> When I run LinuxCNC I get a realtime error a few minutes after I start
> the program. I am using 2.7.4. This is repeatable and happens each and
> every time I run LinuxCNC.
>
> I reran stepconf and changed the jitter value to 50ms to see if that
> would fix it and it did not change anything.
>
> What could be the issue here?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jim
>
>
> --
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> Applications Manager provides deep performance insights into multiple tiers of
> your business applications. It resolves application problems quickly and
> reduces your MTTR. Get your free trial!
> https://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/302982198;130105516;z
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[Emc-users] Realtime Error ?

2016-05-06 Thread Jim Craig
I have set up my router with my new computer. This computer runs at 
about 25ms jitter on the base thread for hours with 2 glxgears running, 
moving windows, copying files etc.

This system runs off a parport, and I set initially set it up in 
stepconf wizard to have a 30ms jitter value.

When I run LinuxCNC I get a realtime error a few minutes after I start 
the program. I am using 2.7.4. This is repeatable and happens each and 
every time I run LinuxCNC.

I reran stepconf and changed the jitter value to 50ms to see if that 
would fix it and it did not change anything.

What could be the issue here?

Thanks,

Jim


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[Emc-users] Realtime error

2009-05-01 Thread Rainer Schmidt
Dumb question I have not found an explanation so I decided to out
myself als noob here...

Once in a blue moon I am having that 'unexpected realtime error
blablabla' and cant pin point it. I ran the diagnostics for two days
with and without SMI and once in a while it still rears it's ugly
head. Once in a while means every other day. Maybe... All runs smooth
and pretty. The steppers are performing flawless...

So... the question is... shall I be afraid of pending doom or can I
ignore that message as no steps are lost and it's only an indicator
for a sporadic timing problem.

Compared to Mach3 EMC is running like a dream on this box.

Cheers
Rainer

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Re: [Emc-users] Realtime error

2009-05-01 Thread Chris Radek
On Fri, May 01, 2009 at 11:42:14AM -0400, Rainer Schmidt wrote:

 So... the question is... shall I be afraid of pending doom or can I
 ignore that message as no steps are lost and it's only an indicator
 for a sporadic timing problem.

After you get it, you can check your dmesg and see details about how
bad it is.


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Re: [Emc-users] Realtime error

2009-05-01 Thread Jon Elson
Rainer Schmidt wrote:
 Dumb question I have not found an explanation so I decided to out
 myself als noob here...

 Once in a blue moon I am having that 'unexpected realtime error
 blablabla' and cant pin point it. I ran the diagnostics for two days
 with and without SMI and once in a while it still rears it's ugly
 head. Once in a while means every other day. Maybe... All runs smooth
 and pretty. The steppers are performing flawless...
   
When it happens, open a terminal window and type :
dmesg

near the bottom, you will see more complete info, most especially there 
will be lines that read roughly

The last several times the runtime was , , , 
this time it was 

Compare the 's to the .  If  is vastly greater than , 
then you do have a problem.
For instance, if  numbers are running around 25000 and  is 
1700, this is an enormous extra delay.
 From 25 microseconds to 17 MILLIseconds.  I have seen this on one of my 
test machines that is not used to run an actual machine.
I think it is due to an extra network card, and it is somewhat rare, and 
diesn't interfere with motor and drive testing.


Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] Realtime error

2009-05-01 Thread Rainer Schmidt
So it is a matter of 'rhythm' not being correct rather than a matter
of 'steps/pulses or event's' LOST and thus problems ahead.
I will ignore it as it is a very rare problem.

Funny you mention the Network Card. I unplugged the machine from the
network and since 4 days nothing has happened...
I use a USB mem stick to carry data. The more the crappy Dell is left
alone the better the behavior becomes. Bad Hardware Design...

Thanks!
Rainer


On Fri, May 1, 2009 at 1:42 PM, Jon Elson el...@pico-systems.com wrote:
 Rainer Schmidt wrote:
 Dumb question I have not found an explanation so I decided to out
 myself als noob here...

 Once in a blue moon I am having that 'unexpected realtime error
 blablabla' and cant pin point it. I ran the diagnostics for two days
 with and without SMI and once in a while it still rears it's ugly
 head. Once in a while means every other day. Maybe... All runs smooth
 and pretty. The steppers are performing flawless...

 When it happens, open a terminal window and type :
 dmesg

 near the bottom, you will see more complete info, most especially there
 will be lines that read roughly

 The last several times the runtime was , , , 
 this time it was 

 Compare the 's to the .  If  is vastly greater than ,
 then you do have a problem.
 For instance, if  numbers are running around 25000 and  is
 1700, this is an enormous extra delay.
  From 25 microseconds to 17 MILLIseconds.  I have seen this on one of my
 test machines that is not used to run an actual machine.
 I think it is due to an extra network card, and it is somewhat rare, and
 diesn't interfere with motor and drive testing.


 Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] Realtime error

2009-05-01 Thread Gene Heskett
On Friday 01 May 2009, Rainer Schmidt wrote:
So it is a matter of 'rhythm' not being correct rather than a matter
of 'steps/pulses or event's' LOST and thus problems ahead.
I will ignore it as it is a very rare problem.

Funny you mention the Network Card. I unplugged the machine from the
network and since 4 days nothing has happened...
I use a USB mem stick to carry data. The more the crappy Dell is left
alone the better the behavior becomes. Bad Hardware Design...

Thanks!
Rainer

Rainer; Don't, under any conditions, leave that usb stick plugged in when 
trying to run emc.  The usb subsystem has to scan storage devices regularly, 
and that will hog the system and trash parts.

Unmount it, and Unplug it as soon as the data has been moved.  Voice of 
experience here and I'd forgotten that little detail. :( Can I blame it on 
CRS, sometimers or 

On Fri, May 1, 2009 at 1:42 PM, Jon Elson el...@pico-systems.com wrote:
 Rainer Schmidt wrote:
 Dumb question I have not found an explanation so I decided to out
 myself als noob here...

 Once in a blue moon I am having that 'unexpected realtime error
 blablabla' and cant pin point it. I ran the diagnostics for two days
 with and without SMI and once in a while it still rears it's ugly
 head. Once in a while means every other day. Maybe... All runs smooth
 and pretty. The steppers are performing flawless...

 When it happens, open a terminal window and type :
 dmesg

 near the bottom, you will see more complete info, most especially there
 will be lines that read roughly

 The last several times the runtime was , , , 
 this time it was 

 Compare the 's to the .  If  is vastly greater than ,
 then you do have a problem.
 For instance, if  numbers are running around 25000 and  is
 1700, this is an enormous extra delay.
  From 25 microseconds to 17 MILLIseconds.  I have seen this on one of my
 test machines that is not used to run an actual machine.
 I think it is due to an extra network card, and it is somewhat rare, and
 diesn't interfere with motor and drive testing.


 Jon

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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.
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Re: [Emc-users] Realtime error

2009-05-01 Thread Rainer Schmidt
Thanks for that insight!
Will only use that for transport.
Tomorrow is calibration day. I entered the same steps I used with
Mach3 on that small mill.
But one never knows.
Cheers
Rainer

On Fri, May 1, 2009 at 6:05 PM, Gene Heskett gene.hesk...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Friday 01 May 2009, Rainer Schmidt wrote:
So it is a matter of 'rhythm' not being correct rather than a matter
of 'steps/pulses or event's' LOST and thus problems ahead.
I will ignore it as it is a very rare problem.

Funny you mention the Network Card. I unplugged the machine from the
network and since 4 days nothing has happened...
I use a USB mem stick to carry data. The more the crappy Dell is left
alone the better the behavior becomes. Bad Hardware Design...

Thanks!
Rainer

 Rainer; Don't, under any conditions, leave that usb stick plugged in when
 trying to run emc.  The usb subsystem has to scan storage devices regularly,
 and that will hog the system and trash parts.

 Unmount it, and Unplug it as soon as the data has been moved.  Voice of
 experience here and I'd forgotten that little detail. :( Can I blame it on
 CRS, sometimers or 

On Fri, May 1, 2009 at 1:42 PM, Jon Elson el...@pico-systems.com wrote:
 Rainer Schmidt wrote:
 Dumb question I have not found an explanation so I decided to out
 myself als noob here...

 Once in a blue moon I am having that 'unexpected realtime error
 blablabla' and cant pin point it. I ran the diagnostics for two days
 with and without SMI and once in a while it still rears it's ugly
 head. Once in a while means every other day. Maybe... All runs smooth
 and pretty. The steppers are performing flawless...

 When it happens, open a terminal window and type :
 dmesg

 near the bottom, you will see more complete info, most especially there
 will be lines that read roughly

 The last several times the runtime was , , , 
 this time it was 

 Compare the 's to the .  If  is vastly greater than ,
 then you do have a problem.
 For instance, if  numbers are running around 25000 and  is
 1700, this is an enormous extra delay.
  From 25 microseconds to 17 MILLIseconds.  I have seen this on one of my
 test machines that is not used to run an actual machine.
 I think it is due to an extra network card, and it is somewhat rare, and
 diesn't interfere with motor and drive testing.


 Jon

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 There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.
 -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
 When I woke up this morning, my girlfriend asked if I had slept well.
 I said, No, I made a few mistakes.
                -- Steven Wright


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Re: [Emc-users] Realtime error

2009-05-01 Thread Gene Heskett
On Friday 01 May 2009, Rainer Schmidt wrote:
Thanks for that insight!
Will only use that for transport.
Tomorrow is calibration day. I entered the same steps I used with
Mach3 on that small mill.
But one never knows.
Cheers
Rainer

Please do keep us posted, there are a few here who like to note what works and 
what doesn't, so we can if possible, forewarn the newbies about certain 
hardware.

At 74, I'll likely forget those details by the next day unless they happened 
to me, memory, 2nd thing to go I hear.  ;)

[...]

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Cheers, Gene
There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.
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invisible to the eye.
-- The Fox, 'The Little Prince


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[Emc-users] Realtime error and Nvidia

2007-06-03 Thread Cecil Thomas
This might be more of an UBUNTU problem than EMC2 but I have to start 
somewhere.

I Just set up a new box (Emachines Pentium III 640M ram 80G hd with 
working network connection) Using latest LiveCD version and all 
updates as of yesterday.
EMC2 runs fine and the machine (converted DM tabletop mill) runs 
fine..BUT... I am getting realtime errors.

I am aware from previous discussions here that the EMC2 realtime 
error I am getting is probably caused by the Nvidia video card/driver 
in my computer.

I replaced the NVidia (MGA slot) with a Matrox Millennium (PCI slot) 
and changed setup to use the PCI slot.

Now all I can get is 640 x 480 resolution.  When I try to change 
resolution in Ubuntu Preferences there is only one choice.

I Downloaded what I think is the appropriate driver for the card but 
it didn't help.  Maybe I don't know how to get the system to utilize 
the driver

I recall that someone said here that I could use the NVidia card if I 
used a generic driver.  How do I get one of those and tell the 
system to use it?

Thanks
Cecil



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Re: [Emc-users] Realtime error and Nvidia

2007-06-03 Thread Mark Pictor
If you want the generic driver for the Nvidia card, it is already
installed.  It is called nv.

Mark

--- Chris Radek [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 On Sun, Jun 03, 2007 at 10:05:14AM -0500, Cecil Thomas wrote:
  
  I replaced the NVidia (MGA slot) with a Matrox Millennium (PCI
 slot) 
  and changed setup to use the PCI slot.
  
  Now all I can get is 640 x 480 resolution.  When I try to
 change 
  resolution in Ubuntu Preferences there is only one choice.
  
  I Downloaded what I think is the appropriate driver for the
 card but 
  it didn't help.  Maybe I don't know how to get the system to
 utilize 
  the driver
 
 There is no driver to download - it's included and is simply
 called
 mga.  You should have something like Driver mga in
 /etc/X11/xorg.conf.
 
 Failing that, you might try (outside of X) dpkg-reconfigure
 xserver-xorg which will ask you questions and set up xorg.conf
 for
 you.
 
 

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Re: [Emc-users] Realtime error and Nvidia

2007-06-03 Thread Jack Ensor
Check out the following - it worked for me to set my screen resolution.

http://www.perpetualpc.net/srtd_resolution.html

Jack Ensor

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[Emc-users] Realtime error and Nvidia

2007-06-03 Thread Cecil Thomas
Sorry if I seem a little slow, it's only because I am a little slow.

I presently have the Nvidia card installed (in the MGA slot)
The xorg.conf file correctly says:

Section  Device
Identifier  NVIDIA Corporation NV11 [GeForce2 Mx/Mx400]
Driver  nv
Bus ID  PCI: 1:0:0

This setup works great EXCEPT that I am getting the real time errors.

Can I change to some other driver that doesn't cause the interrupts 
and real time errors and keep this card ;
  or do I need to take out the Nvidia card and use the Matrox card 
with its own driver??

Thanks again,
Cecil




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Re: [Emc-users] Realtime error and Nvidia

2007-06-03 Thread Chris Radek
On Sun, Jun 03, 2007 at 04:48:31PM -0500, Cecil Thomas wrote:
 Can I change to some other driver that doesn't cause the interrupts 
 and real time errors and keep this card ;

Yes, try vesa

   or do I need to take out the Nvidia card and use the Matrox card 
 with its own driver??

Remember, your problem may not be the video card at all - but it is
definitely the first thing to check.


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Re: [Emc-users] Realtime error and Nvidia

2007-06-03 Thread Mark Pictor
You wrote MGA slot... I assume you really meant AGP slot?

Any chance there is another Device section in the file, using the
nvidia driver? 

If not, I doubt the video card is the problem.

Can you provide the output of the command lspci?

Mark
--- Cecil Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Sorry if I seem a little slow, it's only because I am a little
 slow.
 
 I presently have the Nvidia card installed (in the MGA slot)
 The xorg.conf file correctly says:
 
 Section  Device
   Identifier  NVIDIA Corporation NV11 [GeForce2 Mx/Mx400]
   Driver  nv
   Bus ID  PCI: 1:0:0
 
 This setup works great EXCEPT that I am getting the real time
 errors.
 
 Can I change to some other driver that doesn't cause the
 interrupts 
 and real time errors and keep this card ;
   or do I need to take out the Nvidia card and use the Matrox
 card 
 with its own driver??
 
 Thanks again,
 Cecil



  

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[Emc-users] Realtime error and Nvidia

2007-06-03 Thread Cecil Thomas
Mark,
Of course you're right I meant AGP slot. 
I didn't find another Device driver with nvidia in the config file.
I hope that's not bad news.
I really appriciate the help.
Here's the output of lspci

[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ lspci
:00:00.0 Host bridge: Intel Corporation 82850 850 (Tehama) Chipset
Host Brid ge (MCH) (rev 04)
:00:01.0 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation 82850 850 (Tehama) Chipset
AGP Bridge  (rev 04)
:00:1e.0 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation 82801 PCI Bridge (rev 04)
:00:1f.0 ISA bridge: Intel Corporation 82801BA ISA Bridge (LPC) (rev
04)
:00:1f.1 IDE interface: Intel Corporation 82801BA IDE U100 (rev 04)
:00:1f.2 USB Controller: Intel Corporation 82801BA/BAM USB (Hub #1)
(rev 04)
:00:1f.3 SMBus: Intel Corporation 82801BA/BAM SMBus (rev 04)
:00:1f.4 USB Controller: Intel Corporation 82801BA/BAM USB (Hub #2)
(rev 04)
:00:1f.5 Multimedia audio controller: Intel Corporation 82801BA/BAM
AC'97 Au dio (rev 04)
:01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: nVidia Corporation NV11
[GeForce2 MX/MX 400] (rev b2)
:02:08.0 Ethernet controller: Intel Corporation 82801BA/BAM/CA/CAM
Ethernet Controller (rev 03)
:02:0a.0 Ethernet controller: Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd.
RTL-8139/8139C /8139C+ (rev 10)



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