Re: [Emc-users] Safely Upgrading LinuxCNC

[John Dammeyer]

Hey Todd,
Dead on!  I went through all that stuff manually with joints when I ported the 
2.7.14 HAL/INI from the AMD64 to the Pi4 2.8 but I never moved the HB04 pendant 
so it didn't come up.

In my HAL file I had:
#commented out because it's attached inside layout2.inc for MPG
#net spindle-manual-stop   halui.spindle.0.stop

The original HAL file had:
#commented out because it's attached inside layout2.inc for MPG Pendant
#net spindle-manual-stop   halui.spindle.stop

Notice that the script that updated to 2.8 added the .0 even in the commented 
net command.

I changed the layout2.inc file from
spindle = halui.spindle.start

to
spindle = halui.spindle.0.start
half= halui.spindle.0.stop

And now those buttons work after restarting LinuxCNC.  Next, wait and see if it 
goes away again.  That will be a more difficult problem to diagnose.

Thanks.
John

> -Original Message-
> From: John Dammeyer [mailto:jo...@autoartisans.com]
> Sent: September-16-21 9:22 AM
> To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Safely Upgrading LinuxCNC
> 
> > From: Todd Zuercher [mailto:to...@pgrahamdunn.com]
> >
> > I think you only have to disable the ones referencing 2.7.  If you remove 
> > all of the Linuxcnc references you lose the general
> Linuxcnc
> > repositories that fill a lot of dependencies that are not in the normal 
> > Debian repositories.  That will likely cause problems such as
> > your TCL dependency problem.
> 
> Yes.  That's what I figured after the fact.  And that's why that sort of 
> information _should_ be in that document so that idiots like me
> don't just delete them and cause the tcl problem.
> 
> I'll check into the spindle.0 issue later today.  The more concerning one is 
> that when I went back down to the mill yesterday evening
> is that suddenly the pendant didn't work at all where it had worked earlier 
> in the day.
> 
> John
> 
> >
> > Todd Zuercher
> > P. Graham Dunn Inc.
> > 630 Henry Street?
> > Dalton, Ohio 44618
> > Phone:? (330)828-2105ext. 2031
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Gene Heskett 
> > Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2021 9:40 AM
> > To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Safely Upgrading LinuxCNC
> >
> > [EXTERNAL EMAIL] Be sure links are safe.
> >
> > On Thursday 16 September 2021 04:16:51 John Dammeyer wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Andy,
> > > Long answer...
> >
> > Finally, somebody said it. I've read thru John's comments and he's nailed 
> > it. Our wiki entries about using synaptic are at times
> > equivalent to swahili to an Iowa farm kid like me. And synaptic itself is 
> > just as guilty. With a tested IQ of 147, I still have to ask for
> > clairification.
> >
> > > I did untick all the items.  I did not delete them.
> > >
> > > There is a basic assumption (generally incorrect I think) that the end
> > > user following the instructions actually knows what the instructions
> > > mean.   It's like trying to learn to write in a language you don't
> > > speak having only the dictionary as a reference.  Or learning a
> > > language having only a dictionary.
> > >
> > > Many of the LinuxCNC instruction help files are written like
> > > dictionaries with an assumption that the user of that dictionary is
> > > already fluent in the language.  Or they are step by step instructions
> > > that don't handle the slightest deviation like a misspelled reference.
> > >  Totally my fault.
> > >
> > > You see it in the Linux code too.  My Computing Science professors
> > > would have failed me on many of my courses if I documented the way
> > > that code is documented.  But I'm digressing and off topic.
> > >
> > > Let's take a look at the screen shot I posted which I've attached
> > > again for convenience.  I did not know _what_ I was supposed to see in
> > > the Synaptic Package Manager after I entered in the 'new' line in the
> > > Repositories screen.
> > >
> > > Notice I didn't call it the "software sources" window.  From the
> > > upgrading doc: "In Synaptic, click on the Settings menu, then click
> > > Repositories to open the Software Sources window" I spent a while
> > > looking for menu entries or buttons marked "Software Sources".  I
> > > finally decided "Repositories" which is the title of that dialog box,
> > > must be "Software Source

Re: [Emc-users] Safely Upgrading LinuxCNC

[John Dammeyer]

> From: Todd Zuercher [mailto:to...@pgrahamdunn.com]
> 
> I think you only have to disable the ones referencing 2.7.  If you remove all 
> of the Linuxcnc references you lose the general Linuxcnc
> repositories that fill a lot of dependencies that are not in the normal 
> Debian repositories.  That will likely cause problems such as
> your TCL dependency problem.

Yes.  That's what I figured after the fact.  And that's why that sort of 
information _should_ be in that document so that idiots like me don't just 
delete them and cause the tcl problem.

I'll check into the spindle.0 issue later today.  The more concerning one is 
that when I went back down to the mill yesterday evening is that suddenly the 
pendant didn't work at all where it had worked earlier in the day.  

John

> 
> Todd Zuercher
> P. Graham Dunn Inc.
> 630 Henry Street�
> Dalton, Ohio 44618
> Phone:� (330)828-2105ext. 2031
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Gene Heskett 
> Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2021 9:40 AM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Safely Upgrading LinuxCNC
> 
> [EXTERNAL EMAIL] Be sure links are safe.
> 
> On Thursday 16 September 2021 04:16:51 John Dammeyer wrote:
> 
> > Hi Andy,
> > Long answer...
> 
> Finally, somebody said it. I've read thru John's comments and he's nailed it. 
> Our wiki entries about using synaptic are at times
> equivalent to swahili to an Iowa farm kid like me. And synaptic itself is 
> just as guilty. With a tested IQ of 147, I still have to ask for
> clairification.
> 
> > I did untick all the items.  I did not delete them.
> >
> > There is a basic assumption (generally incorrect I think) that the end
> > user following the instructions actually knows what the instructions
> > mean.   It's like trying to learn to write in a language you don't
> > speak having only the dictionary as a reference.  Or learning a
> > language having only a dictionary.
> >
> > Many of the LinuxCNC instruction help files are written like
> > dictionaries with an assumption that the user of that dictionary is
> > already fluent in the language.  Or they are step by step instructions
> > that don't handle the slightest deviation like a misspelled reference.
> >  Totally my fault.
> >
> > You see it in the Linux code too.  My Computing Science professors
> > would have failed me on many of my courses if I documented the way
> > that code is documented.  But I'm digressing and off topic.
> >
> > Let's take a look at the screen shot I posted which I've attached
> > again for convenience.  I did not know _what_ I was supposed to see in
> > the Synaptic Package Manager after I entered in the 'new' line in the
> > Repositories screen.
> >
> > Notice I didn't call it the "software sources" window.  From the
> > upgrading doc: "In Synaptic, click on the Settings menu, then click
> > Repositories to open the Software Sources window" I spent a while
> > looking for menu entries or buttons marked "Software Sources".  I
> > finally decided "Repositories" which is the title of that dialog box,
> > must be "Software Sources".
> >
> > Which is the:
> > "In the Software Sources window, select the Other Software tab."
> > Perhaps 2.8 has that?  2.7.14 did not.
> >
> > Couldn't find the:
> > "Click Add Source, then Close in the Software Sources window. If it
> > pops up a window informing you that the information about available
> > software is out-of-date, click the Reload button."
> >
> > What I did was click on the "New" button which added an non checked
> > empty line at the bottom of the list.  I then filled in from the
> > _untitled_ table above the screen shot all the three lines misspelling
> > rtpreempt.
> >
> > Then clicked on OK which then resulted in the dialog stating that
> > Reload would happen if I clicked OK. Which I did.
> >
> > So back up there for a sec:
> > "Delete or un-check all the old linuxcnc.org entries (leave all
> > non-linuxcnc.org lines as they are). "
> >
> > Not explained is  the difference between Delete or un-check and why
> > I'd do one or the other.  So we're back to the foreign language
> > dictionary defining words but not the context.
> >
> > As an aside and in many ways nothing to do with this...
> > ---
> > Verwijder of deselecteer alle oude linuxcnc.org-vermeldingen (laat
> > alle niet-

Re: [Emc-users] Safely Upgrading LinuxCNC

[Todd Zuercher]

I think you only have to disable the ones referencing 2.7.  If you remove all 
of the Linuxcnc references you lose the general Linuxcnc repositories that fill 
a lot of dependencies that are not in the normal Debian repositories.  That 
will likely cause problems such as your TCL dependency problem.

Todd Zuercher
P. Graham Dunn Inc.
630 Henry Street 
Dalton, Ohio 44618
Phone:  (330)828-2105ext. 2031

-Original Message-
From: Gene Heskett  
Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2021 9:40 AM
To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Safely Upgrading LinuxCNC

[EXTERNAL EMAIL] Be sure links are safe.

On Thursday 16 September 2021 04:16:51 John Dammeyer wrote:

> Hi Andy,
> Long answer...

Finally, somebody said it. I've read thru John's comments and he's nailed it. 
Our wiki entries about using synaptic are at times equivalent to swahili to an 
Iowa farm kid like me. And synaptic itself is just as guilty. With a tested IQ 
of 147, I still have to ask for clairification.

> I did untick all the items.  I did not delete them.
>
> There is a basic assumption (generally incorrect I think) that the end 
> user following the instructions actually knows what the instructions
> mean.   It's like trying to learn to write in a language you don't
> speak having only the dictionary as a reference.  Or learning a 
> language having only a dictionary.
>
> Many of the LinuxCNC instruction help files are written like 
> dictionaries with an assumption that the user of that dictionary is 
> already fluent in the language.  Or they are step by step instructions 
> that don't handle the slightest deviation like a misspelled reference.
>  Totally my fault.
>
> You see it in the Linux code too.  My Computing Science professors 
> would have failed me on many of my courses if I documented the way 
> that code is documented.  But I'm digressing and off topic.
>
> Let's take a look at the screen shot I posted which I've attached 
> again for convenience.  I did not know _what_ I was supposed to see in 
> the Synaptic Package Manager after I entered in the 'new' line in the 
> Repositories screen.
>
> Notice I didn't call it the "software sources" window.  From the 
> upgrading doc: "In Synaptic, click on the Settings menu, then click 
> Repositories to open the Software Sources window" I spent a while 
> looking for menu entries or buttons marked "Software Sources".  I 
> finally decided "Repositories" which is the title of that dialog box, 
> must be "Software Sources".
>
> Which is the:
> "In the Software Sources window, select the Other Software tab."
> Perhaps 2.8 has that?  2.7.14 did not.
>
> Couldn't find the:
> "Click Add Source, then Close in the Software Sources window. If it 
> pops up a window informing you that the information about available 
> software is out-of-date, click the Reload button."
>
> What I did was click on the "New" button which added an non checked 
> empty line at the bottom of the list.  I then filled in from the 
> _untitled_ table above the screen shot all the three lines misspelling 
> rtpreempt.
>
> Then clicked on OK which then resulted in the dialog stating that 
> Reload would happen if I clicked OK. Which I did.
>
> So back up there for a sec:
> "Delete or un-check all the old linuxcnc.org entries (leave all 
> non-linuxcnc.org lines as they are). "
>
> Not explained is  the difference between Delete or un-check and why 
> I'd do one or the other.  So we're back to the foreign language 
> dictionary defining words but not the context.
>
> As an aside and in many ways nothing to do with this...
> ---
> Verwijder of deselecteer alle oude linuxcnc.org-vermeldingen (laat 
> alle niet-linuxcnc.org-regels zoals ze zijn).
>
> The above was from Google Translate which does a pretty good job of 
> translating them back and forth.  Verwijder means Delete according to 
> Google Translate but it's a relatively new definition.  Use my 1991 
> Dutch to English Dictionary and the word is Verwijderen which is
> remove, take out, expel say from school.   So Remove is close enough.
> ---
>
> So why would I not delete?  Why only uncheck.  I had 4 different
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flinuxcnc.org%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ctoddz%40pgrahamdunn.com%7Ca619ac85c6ea4237423008d979179881%7C5758544c573f47cebee96c3e0806fb43%7C0%7C0%7C637673964952194781%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=Bn0xgRrgG%2B544mUMHwC%2FdGlW5XxZVNlJG6gIjZewy3o%3D&reserved=0
>  lines.  They were in pairs of deb and deb-src.
> O

Re: [Emc-users] Safely Upgrading LinuxCNC

[Gene Heskett]

On Thursday 16 September 2021 04:32:10 John Dammeyer wrote:

> > From: Gene Heskett [mailto:ghesk...@shentel.net]
> >
> > On Thursday 16 September 2021 02:32:50 John Dammeyer wrote:
> > > Oh and this is the project.  Butterfly Impact wrench power draw
> > > bar.
> >
> > I use a std Porter-Cable impact screw driver for that.
> >
> > I think it could strip the drawbar screw in my g0704 if I just let
> > it hammer. Portable, no air hoses, runs months on one battery
> > charge. If I had an ATC I'd rig it for lcnc control as I think I've
> > enough spare pins to run it now. Windshield wiper to raise and lower
> > it, relay across the switches. I'd figure out something. :)
>
> Fun project.  I'm having a gas with this one.  Back in the early 90's
> I moved to The Netherlands and worked for a company that cut and bent
> the leads on semiconductor lead frames.  I was responsible for the
> pocket tray loaders and off-loaders.  My first introduction to CAN bus
> before CAN even had network specific bus drivers.   There were no High
> Level Protocols.  Lots of pneumatics, ,Compumotor linear stepper
> motors, sensors etc.

Fun and learning, a great combo.  I walked into one of the local shops 
about 5 yers back, looking for a 3" piece of very heavy pipe to make a 
cat head for my Sheldon to facilitate threading a new barrel for old 
AT&T, my deer rifle since the 1960's. While standing beside the door I 
was instructed to move out of the way as one of the employees was about 
to use a huge punch press, to chop wood! He was right to warn me cuz 
when he tripped it, two pieces of wood from a 24" round went flying 
about 30 feet each way. He carried them back and did it again making 4 
pieces to fit the shop stove. Pretty deep in January AIR. The shop owner 
gave me about a foot of sched 80, which wasn't really heavy enough but 
did get the job done. The highest tech in the place was a cnc driven 
plasma torch over a water table used to cut out artistic sheet metal 
stuff. I didn't see it working which would have been nice.

> The flywheel on the 30 ton press had an absolute encoder and
> particular positions caused things to move in and out of the way of
> the press tool and die.  They are having a 30 year reunion for the
> introduction of the TFM this fall.  Unfortunately because of COVID
> rules I won't be able to attend.
>
> John
>
>
>
>
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] Safely Upgrading LinuxCNC

[Gene Heskett]

 what is in the 'Section(s)'
> field and if it can't find that in linuxcnc.org then throwing up a
> dialog message with a suggestion should be the minimum with the ideal
> being a list of selections that start with 2.8-...
>
> Hope that helps.  The most difficult part of software is the user
> interface and human factors design.
>
> Here's another small aside you can ignore if you want.
> Go way way back in time and in North America the research done showed
> that humans have trouble with more than 7 choices.  It's why they set
> up the telephone system with 3 and 4 digits.  IBM did extensive
> research on menu's and the number of items in a menu.  Again more than
> 7 and people made mistakes.
>
> I worked for a savings and trust company back in the late 70's.  Same
> thing.  Menus were kept shorter than 7 selections.  We found the
> tellers and operators would go the wrong way if there were too many
> choices and have trouble backing out when the menu's looked 'almost'
> the same.
>
> There were two prevalent word processors at the beginning of the
> micro-computer usage.  Wordstar (and programmers WordMaster) and Word
> Perfect.  Wordstar was totally intuitive using the Ctrl key and the
> pattern of keys arranged for up/down etc. with the left hand. 
> Microsoft word only retained a few of those keys using instead the
> letter of the key for the operation in the same way that Wordperfect
> did.
>
> What was interesting is listening to a secretary teach someone how to
> print a document with Word Perfect which won the office word processor
> war until Microsoft Windows showed up with WORD.  They didn't explain
> why or what they were supposed to do.  They taught you do an F8 F7 F6
> F6 Shift F9.  (I made up this sequence).  As long as they memorized
> the sequence they didn't need to know what or why they were doing. 
> Only that after the last button the printer woke up and created a
> document.  (dot matrix, took a while).
>
> It's easy to go the direction of F8 F7 F6 F6 Shift F9 until something
> goes wrong...
>
> Hope there's enough there to improve the document.
>
> John Dammeyer
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> > Sent: September-15-21 11:48 PM
> > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Safely Upgrading LinuxCNC
> >
> > On Wed, 15 Sept 2021 at 23:13, John Dammeyer  
wrote:
> > > So the upgrade document needs a bit of work with some guidance on
> > > what needs to be removed in order for this to work.
> >
> > I thought that
> >
> > "Delete or un-check all the old linuxcnc.org entries (leave all
> > non-linuxcnc.org lines as they are)."
> >
> > Was fairly clear. Can you propose a wording that would have been
> > clear to you? (maybe "un-tick" for some locales?)
> >
> > --
> > atp
> > "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> > designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> > lunatics."
> > � George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>


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Re: [Emc-users] Safely Upgrading LinuxCNC

[Todd Zuercher]

As to your spindle control issues with your pendant.  My best guess is there 
was a hal pin name change for spindle to add support for multiple spindles.  
You may need to change any spindle pin names in your pendant hal file (and 
possibly your pendant driver) from halui.spindle-"pin-name" to 
halui.spindle.N."pin-name" and motion.spindle-"pin-name" to 
spindle.N."pin-name".  Where N is the number of your spindle starting from 0.  
So in your case one example that could directly effect your pendant start 
button would be changing the hal pin from halui.spindle.start to 
halui.spindle.0.start.

Todd Zuercher
P. Graham Dunn Inc.
630 Henry Street 
Dalton, Ohio 44618
Phone:  (330)828-2105ext. 2031

-Original Message-
From: John Dammeyer  
Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2021 5:11 PM
To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)' 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Safely Upgrading LinuxCNC

[EXTERNAL EMAIL] Be sure links are safe.

So the upgrade document needs a bit of work with some guidance on what needs to 
be removed in order for this to work.  Likely if I'd spelled it right it would 
have?  So then the question is why the synaptic repository program didn't warn 
me that it couldn't find the file.  That probably also needs fixing.

I found a backup copy of xhc-hb04.tcl and put it into the /usr/lib/... location 
and then did the usual move Ethernet cables and reboot etc.  System now works 
and the INI file has both joint and axis.

What doesn't work is the spindle on and off buttons on the pendant.  More 
research required.

And if anyone was wondering why it's taken so long for me to upgrade, the story 
in this thread is why.  It's rarely ever smooth or simple.  Side effects 
sometimes take a long time to discover.

Thanks everyone for your suggestions and help.
John


> -Original Message-
> From: John Dammeyer [mailto:jo...@autoartisans.com]
> Sent: September-15-21 1:22 PM
> To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Safely Upgrading LinuxCNC
>
> Yeah, I went back and deleted everything in the repositories that had 
> linuxcnc in it.  Then in the Synaptic Package manager marked for 
> deletion all the linuxcnc-doc, -uspace, -uspace-dev
>
> Back to repositories and added (again) the path to the 2.8-rtpreempt 
> which in the screen shot I posted last night was labelled 2.8- rtprempt.  
> Notice the missing 'e'
>
> Upgrade has been done.  Dialog about joints and axis shows up.  Say 
> yes.  And it dies at LIB:xch-hb04.tcl not found.
>
> So it looks like removing 2.7 also trashed that.  Where to find it is the 
> next exercise.
>
>
> > From: Andy Pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> > > On 15 Sep 2021, at 20:08, johnd  wrote:
> > >
> > > On which list?  The one where I added 2.8?
> >
> > In the synaptic repository list you appear to have 6 LinuxCNC 
> > entries. You should have one deb and one deb-src (optional)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
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> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fli
> > sts.sourceforge.net%2Flists%2Flistinfo%2Femc-users&data=04%7C01%
> > 7Ctoddz%40pgrahamdunn.com%7C05e74b2c7f3b4034ee2a08d9788d6e53%7C57585
> > 44c573f47cebee96c3e0806fb43%7C0%7C0%7C637673371135916788%7CUnknown%7
> > CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJ
> > XVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=R4x29B%2F67OzKnnvRXOZd6hzyHSOON%2FNpg1C
> > gnq3Qy%2FU%3D&reserved=0
>
>
>
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> sb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3
> D%7C1000&sdata=R4x29B%2F67OzKnnvRXOZd6hzyHSOON%2FNpg1Cgnq3Qy%2FU%3
> D&reserved=0



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Re: [Emc-users] Safely Upgrading LinuxCNC

[Mark]

I'm with Marcus.  Having used most all the various flavors of Unix and 
Linux over the last 30 years, updating seems to always leave issues that 
are related to legacy programs and files.  If you have that much stuff 
on a LinuxCNC controller, might I suggest you find a less busy machine 
that you can dedicate to being a LinuxCNC controller and use it only for 
that, and leave the development stuff to another machine, off the actual 
machine controller? The computers I have controlling machines do only 
just that and nothing else.  All the development I did over the years 
was on other machines.


Mark

On 9/15/21 6:29 PM, John Dammeyer wrote:

I have too much other stuff installed on that PC to want to re-install the OS 
with a new version that included LinuxCNC 2.8.
  
Had I not made the spelling mistake it's likely it would have worked.  Once I effectively removed all of LinuxCNC 2.7 etc. using the tool along with removing from the repositories all instances of linuxcnc.org then it went well.
  
The tcl file wasn't in my home folder and that's why I get worried about upgrades.  Removing 2.7.14 rather than upgrading it also removed the /usr/lib/linuxcnc tcl files.
  
Which means it's likely installing the live image wouldn't have helped either.  The xhc-hb04 config files were in my config folder and weren't touched.
  

  

-Original Message-
From: marcus.bow...@visible.eclipse.co.uk 
[mailto:marcus.bow...@visible.eclipse.co.uk]
Sent: September-15-21 2:32 PM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Safely Upgrading LinuxCNC

On 2021-09-15 22:10, John Dammeyer wrote:

  It's rarely ever smooth or simple.

I have consistently found it is less painful and usually quicker to
simply download the whole live/install image and use that (after saving
INI files etc).
Life is too short, etc.

Marcus


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Re: [Emc-users] Safely Upgrading LinuxCNC

[John Dammeyer]

> From: Gene Heskett [mailto:ghesk...@shentel.net]
> On Thursday 16 September 2021 02:32:50 John Dammeyer wrote:
> 
> > Oh and this is the project.  Butterfly Impact wrench power draw bar.
> >
> I use a std Porter-Cable impact screw driver for that.
> 
> I think it could strip the drawbar screw in my g0704 if I just let it
> hammer. Portable, no air hoses, runs months on one battery charge. If I
> had an ATC I'd rig it for lcnc control as I think I've enough spare pins
> to run it now. Windshield wiper to raise and lower it, relay across the
> switches. I'd figure out something. :)
> 
Fun project.  I'm having a gas with this one.  Back in the early 90's I moved 
to The Netherlands and worked for a company that cut and bent the leads on 
semiconductor lead frames.  I was responsible for the pocket tray loaders and 
off-loaders.  My first introduction to CAN bus before CAN even had network 
specific bus drivers.   There were no High Level Protocols.  Lots of 
pneumatics, ,Compumotor linear stepper motors, sensors etc.   

The flywheel on the 30 ton press had an absolute encoder and particular 
positions caused things to move in and out of the way of the press tool and 
die.  They are having a 30 year reunion for the introduction of the TFM this 
fall.  Unfortunately because of COVID rules I won't be able to attend.

John




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Re: [Emc-users] Safely Upgrading LinuxCNC

[Gene Heskett]

On Thursday 16 September 2021 02:32:50 John Dammeyer wrote:

> Oh and this is the project.  Butterfly Impact wrench power draw bar.
>
I use a std Porter-Cable impact screw driver for that. 

I think it could strip the drawbar screw in my g0704 if I just let it 
hammer. Portable, no air hoses, runs months on one battery charge. If I 
had an ATC I'd rig it for lcnc control as I think I've enough spare pins 
to run it now. Windshield wiper to raise and lower it, relay across the 
switches. I'd figure out something. :)

[...]

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] Safely Upgrading LinuxCNC

[Gene Heskett]

On Thursday 16 September 2021 02:29:05 John Dammeyer wrote:

> I just ran the mill this evening for a while facing off the two sides
> of a casting.  Tomorrow I'll mount it and run the G-Code to profile
> the outside and drill the 3 holes.  The only odd thing that hasn't
> happened before is the Pendant stopped working.  Given that the
> spindle on/off also no longer works the biggest fatality so far in
> this upgrade is the pendant.
>
The spindle control loss is not something I've ever encountered in an 
update.

Are you doing something unusual?

I have 2 1hp rated pmdc I'm running with modified Jon's pwm-servo's, 
pushing then to around 2hp, and 2 1+ hp rated vfd's, one run over an 
rs485 link and one run by a Spinx1.

I have a pendant, came with the 6040. USB interface, no jog dial so I've 
never plugged it in while lcnc was running. Designed for mach, it didn't 
work with that either. So I just take the wireless keyboard to the 
machine.

> Which is one of the reasons I've resisted upgrading.  How many days of
> mucking around will it cost to fix something that wasn't broken other
> than trying to bring the AMD64 upto the same revision as the Pi4.
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: marcus.bow...@visible.eclipse.co.uk
> > [mailto:marcus.bow...@visible.eclipse.co.uk] Sent: September-15-21
> > 10:57 PM
> > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Safely Upgrading LinuxCNC
> >
> > On 2021-09-15 23:29, John Dammeyer wrote:
> > > I have too much other stuff installed on that PC to want to
> > > re-install the OS with a new version that included LinuxCNC 2.8.
> >
> > Good point. I run a single dedicated PC for each machine. I also
> > have swappable C:/ and D:/ drives, so I can preserve the old drives
> > until I am happy with a new installation. I must admit I am slow to
> > upgrade, so problems have usually been ironed out before I move to a
> > new major version.
> >
> > Marcus
> >
> >
> > ___
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> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>


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Re: [Emc-users] Safely Upgrading LinuxCNC

[andy pugh]

On Wed, 15 Sept 2021 at 23:13, John Dammeyer  wrote:
>
> So the upgrade document needs a bit of work with some guidance on what needs 
> to be removed in order for this to work.

I thought that

"Delete or un-check all the old linuxcnc.org entries (leave all
non-linuxcnc.org lines as they are)."

Was fairly clear. Can you propose a wording that would have been clear
to you? (maybe "un-tick" for some locales?)

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] Safely Upgrading LinuxCNC

[John Dammeyer]

Oh and this is the project.  Butterfly Impact wrench power draw bar.


> -Original Message-
> From: marcus.bow...@visible.eclipse.co.uk 
> [mailto:marcus.bow...@visible.eclipse.co.uk]
> Sent: September-15-21 10:57 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Safely Upgrading LinuxCNC
> 
> On 2021-09-15 23:29, John Dammeyer wrote:
> > I have too much other stuff installed on that PC to want to re-install
> > the OS with a new version that included LinuxCNC 2.8.
> >
> Good point. I run a single dedicated PC for each machine. I also have
> swappable C:/ and D:/ drives, so I can preserve the old drives until I
> am happy with a new installation. I must admit I am slow to upgrade, so
> problems have usually been ironed out before I move to a new major
> version.
> 
> Marcus
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Safely Upgrading LinuxCNC

[John Dammeyer]

I just ran the mill this evening for a while facing off the two sides of a 
casting.  Tomorrow I'll mount it and run the G-Code to profile the outside and 
drill the 3 holes.  The only odd thing that hasn't happened before is the 
Pendant stopped working.  Given that the spindle on/off also no longer works 
the biggest fatality so far in this upgrade is the pendant.   

Which is one of the reasons I've resisted upgrading.  How many days of mucking 
around will it cost to fix something that wasn't broken other than trying to 
bring the AMD64 upto the same revision as the Pi4.



> -Original Message-
> From: marcus.bow...@visible.eclipse.co.uk 
> [mailto:marcus.bow...@visible.eclipse.co.uk]
> Sent: September-15-21 10:57 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Safely Upgrading LinuxCNC
> 
> On 2021-09-15 23:29, John Dammeyer wrote:
> > I have too much other stuff installed on that PC to want to re-install
> > the OS with a new version that included LinuxCNC 2.8.
> >
> Good point. I run a single dedicated PC for each machine. I also have
> swappable C:/ and D:/ drives, so I can preserve the old drives until I
> am happy with a new installation. I must admit I am slow to upgrade, so
> problems have usually been ironed out before I move to a new major
> version.
> 
> Marcus
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Safely Upgrading LinuxCNC

[marcus . bowman]

On 2021-09-15 23:29, John Dammeyer wrote:

I have too much other stuff installed on that PC to want to re-install
the OS with a new version that included LinuxCNC 2.8.

Good point. I run a single dedicated PC for each machine. I also have 
swappable C:/ and D:/ drives, so I can preserve the old drives until I 
am happy with a new installation. I must admit I am slow to upgrade, so 
problems have usually been ironed out before I move to a new major 
version.


Marcus


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Re: [Emc-users] Safely Upgrading LinuxCNC

[John Dammeyer]

I have too much other stuff installed on that PC to want to re-install the OS 
with a new version that included LinuxCNC 2.8.  
 
Had I not made the spelling mistake it's likely it would have worked.  Once I 
effectively removed all of LinuxCNC 2.7 etc. using the tool along with removing 
from the repositories all instances of linuxcnc.org then it went well.
 
The tcl file wasn't in my home folder and that's why I get worried about 
upgrades.  Removing 2.7.14 rather than upgrading it also removed the 
/usr/lib/linuxcnc tcl files.  
 
Which means it's likely installing the live image wouldn't have helped either.  
The xhc-hb04 config files were in my config folder and weren't touched.
 

 
> -Original Message-
> From: marcus.bow...@visible.eclipse.co.uk 
> [mailto:marcus.bow...@visible.eclipse.co.uk]
> Sent: September-15-21 2:32 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Safely Upgrading LinuxCNC
> 
> On 2021-09-15 22:10, John Dammeyer wrote:
> >  It's rarely ever smooth or simple.
> 
> I have consistently found it is less painful and usually quicker to
> simply download the whole live/install image and use that (after saving
> INI files etc).
> Life is too short, etc.
> 
> Marcus
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Safely Upgrading LinuxCNC

[marcus . bowman]

On 2021-09-15 22:10, John Dammeyer wrote:

 It's rarely ever smooth or simple.


I have consistently found it is less painful and usually quicker to 
simply download the whole live/install image and use that (after saving 
INI files etc).

Life is too short, etc.

Marcus


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Re: [Emc-users] Safely Upgrading LinuxCNC

[John Dammeyer]

So the upgrade document needs a bit of work with some guidance on what needs to 
be removed in order for this to work.  Likely if I'd spelled it right it would 
have?  So then the question is why the synaptic repository program didn't warn 
me that it couldn't find the file.  That probably also needs fixing.

I found a backup copy of xhc-hb04.tcl and put it into the /usr/lib/... location 
and then did the usual move Ethernet cables and reboot etc.  System now works 
and the INI file has both joint and axis.

What doesn't work is the spindle on and off buttons on the pendant.  More 
research required.  

And if anyone was wondering why it's taken so long for me to upgrade, the story 
in this thread is why.  It's rarely ever smooth or simple.  Side effects 
sometimes take a long time to discover.

Thanks everyone for your suggestions and help.
John


> -Original Message-
> From: John Dammeyer [mailto:jo...@autoartisans.com]
> Sent: September-15-21 1:22 PM
> To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Safely Upgrading LinuxCNC
> 
> Yeah, I went back and deleted everything in the repositories that had 
> linuxcnc in it.  Then in the Synaptic Package manager marked
> for deletion all the linuxcnc-doc, -uspace, -uspace-dev
> 
> Back to repositories and added (again) the path to the 2.8-rtpreempt which in 
> the screen shot I posted last night was labelled 2.8-
> rtprempt.  Notice the missing 'e'
> 
> Upgrade has been done.  Dialog about joints and axis shows up.  Say yes.  And 
> it dies at
> LIB:xch-hb04.tcl not found.
> 
> So it looks like removing 2.7 also trashed that.  Where to find it is the 
> next exercise.
> 
> 
> > From: Andy Pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> > > On 15 Sep 2021, at 20:08, johnd  wrote:
> > >
> > > On which list?  The one where I added 2.8?
> >
> > In the synaptic repository list you appear to have 6 LinuxCNC entries. You 
> > should have one deb and one deb-src (optional)
> >
> >
> >
> >
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> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Safely Upgrading LinuxCNC

[John Dammeyer]

Yeah, I went back and deleted everything in the repositories that had linuxcnc 
in it.  Then in the Synaptic Package manager marked for deletion all the 
linuxcnc-doc, -uspace, -uspace-dev

Back to repositories and added (again) the path to the 2.8-rtpreempt which in 
the screen shot I posted last night was labelled 2.8-rtprempt.  Notice the 
missing 'e'

Upgrade has been done.  Dialog about joints and axis shows up.  Say yes.  And 
it dies at 
LIB:xch-hb04.tcl not found.

So it looks like removing 2.7 also trashed that.  Where to find it is the next 
exercise.


> From: Andy Pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> > On 15 Sep 2021, at 20:08, johnd  wrote:
> >
> > On which list?  The one where I added 2.8?
> 
> In the synaptic repository list you appear to have 6 LinuxCNC entries. You 
> should have one deb and one deb-src (optional)
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Safely Upgrading LinuxCNC

[Andy Pugh]

> On 15 Sep 2021, at 20:08, johnd  wrote:
> 
> On which list?  The one where I added 2.8? 

In e synaptic repository list you appear to have 6 LinuxCNC entries. You should 
have one deb and one deb-src (optional)




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Re: [Emc-users] Safely Upgrading LinuxCNC

[Gene Heskett]

On Wednesday 15 September 2021 14:05:19 johnd wrote:

> On which list?  The one where I added 2.8? 

Not on my buster installs John, its a separate file located 
in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/linuxcnc.list (and to make that, you'll have 
to be root)

Since I run buildbot master-rtpreempt or manual from github builds on 
everything here, mine doesn't read like a 2.8 does. But it looks like 
this for master-rtpreempt, the bleeding edge stuff.**

gene@sixty40:/etc/apt/sources.list.d$ cat *
deb http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/ buster master-rtpreempt

Make yours look like the 2.8 entry, and get rid of any other linuxcnc 
entries in any other files in the /etc/apt tree, and then reload 
synaptic, the top left button.

If it doesn't show up, you've likely a typu somewhere in the 
linuxcnc.list file, reread Andy's messages to compare & correct.

**but it doesn't bleed very often, only my rpi4 build, building it on the 
pi is busted at the moment. First time in nearly a year. But the 9/11/21 
build is still runnning fine, so its a shrug and its not costing me 
money. My cash flow from all this is 100% outward.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] Safely Upgrading LinuxCNC

[johnd]

On which list?  The one where I added 2.8? Sent from my Samsung S10
 Original message From: Andy Pugh  Date: 
2021-09-15  11:01 a.m.  (GMT-08:00) To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
 Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Safely Upgrading 
LinuxCNC > On 15 Sep 2021, at 19:10, John Dammeyer  
wrote:> > Kind of odd behaviour now that 2.8 is in the list.  I can no longer 
select it for installation.It looks like you have several other LinuxCNC 
sources in the list. Delete those and then refresh. (Ie only keep the 2.8 
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Re: [Emc-users] Safely Upgrading LinuxCNC

[Andy Pugh]

> On 15 Sep 2021, at 19:10, John Dammeyer  wrote:
> 
> Kind of odd behaviour now that 2.8 is in the list.  I can no longer select it 
> for installation.

It looks like you have several other LinuxCNC sources in the list. Delete those 
and then refresh. (Ie only keep the 2.8 ones)

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Re: [Emc-users] Safely Upgrading LinuxCNC

[Andy Pugh]

> On 15 Sep 2021, at 10:20, John Dammeyer  wrote:
> 
> Still 2.7.14

What does Synaptic show as the version and available versions?



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Re: [Emc-users] Safely Upgrading LinuxCNC

[John Dammeyer]

Well that didn't work.  After the install process following the steps in the 
document exactly,  I disconnected the network cable and plugged in the MESA.  
Cycled power on the MESA, rebooted and ran LinuxCNC.

Still 2.7.14

John




> -Original Message-
> From: Andy Pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> Sent: September-14-21 10:58 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Safely Upgrading LinuxCNC
> 
> 
> 
> > On 14 Sep 2021, at 23:41, John Dammeyer  wrote:
> >
> > Short of installing the OS and LinuxCNC all over again as if it were a 
> > clean hard drive is there a way to update the OS and LinuxCNC
> without losing everything that's on the hard drive?
> 
> It should be easy.
> 
> You simply need to change the software repository to 2.8 and allow updates.
> 
> No need to change OS or anything else. And everything should work just the 
> same after.
> 
> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.8/html/getting-started/updating-linuxcnc.html
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Safely Upgrading LinuxCNC

[John Dammeyer]

Tis looking easy.
lsb_release -ic 
debian stretch
uname -r
4.9.0-8-rt-amd64

So this has been downloaded and is now upgrading
deb 
http://linuxcnc.org 
stretch 
base 2.8-rtpreempt

Just to be safe I'm also copying the /home folder to a USB drive. Never did 
install samba like I did for the PI4LINUXCNC so I can access it from the 
network.

Thanks Andy.  Hopefully no other questions.
John



> -Original Message-
> From: Andy Pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> Sent: September-14-21 10:58 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Safely Upgrading LinuxCNC
> 
> 
> 
> > On 14 Sep 2021, at 23:41, John Dammeyer  wrote:
> >
> > Short of installing the OS and LinuxCNC all over again as if it were a 
> > clean hard drive is there a way to update the OS and LinuxCNC
> without losing everything that's on the hard drive?
> 
> It should be easy.
> 
> You simply need to change the software repository to 2.8 and allow updates.
> 
> No need to change OS or anything else. And everything should work just the 
> same after.
> 
> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.8/html/getting-started/updating-linuxcnc.html
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Safely Upgrading LinuxCNC

[Andy Pugh]

> On 14 Sep 2021, at 23:41, John Dammeyer  wrote:
> 
> Short of installing the OS and LinuxCNC all over again as if it were a clean 
> hard drive is there a way to update the OS and LinuxCNC without losing 
> everything that's on the hard drive?

It should be easy. 

You simply need to change the software repository to 2.8 and allow updates. 

No need to change OS or anything else. And everything should work just the same 
after. 

http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.8/html/getting-started/updating-linuxcnc.html


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[Emc-users] Safely Upgrading LinuxCNC

[John Dammeyer]

With all the playing around on the Pi4 with LinuxCNC/AXIS version 2.8.2 I feel 
it's probably time to update the real computer connected to the mill which is 
running version 2.7.14
 
Short of installing the OS and LinuxCNC all over again as if it were a clean 
hard drive is there a way to update the OS and LinuxCNC without losing 
everything that's on the hard drive?
 
I realize that this is a big change with joints and axis now used instead of 
just axis and I understand that the software converts the ini/hal files 
automatically.  However OS upgrades always fill me with fear and trepidation.
 
Thanks
John Dammeyer
 
 

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