Re: [Emc-users] Slaved axis

[John Dammeyer]

That would make sense. Years ago, since my ELS has a spot for a CAN bus driver 
chip, I wrote a CANopen module for it that treated it simply as a display and 
keypad.  

Supported simple PDO messages with message #'s rather than strings to keep bus 
traffic to a minimum.  So if you want to display something like X Axis Position 
on the first line and that was string #5 then you'd tell it to display string 
#5 on line 1.  Line 2 might have the value and another string for units.  One 
PDO with only 8 bytes could therefore fill a 4x20 line LCD display with 
information.

Key presses also caused PDO messages with the appropriate codes.   I don't 
remember if I accessed the MPG knob.  It would have to generate PDOs on change 
and report absolute position.

Creating a driver for Linux CNC that operated as a separate task and ran with a 
connection to the "localhost" plus  used CANopen messaging to access the 
display/keypad could be done pretty easily.  

Now if I only had the time.  Work-work just picked up this last week and looks 
to be keeping me busy for a month so all the hobby stuff falls by the wayside 
again.

John


> -Original Message-
> From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> Sent: July-29-18 10:53 AM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Slaved axis
> 
> On 29 July 2018 at 18:25, John Dammeyer  wrote:
> 
> > If I understand the code  correctly it treats the display as if it's 
> > connected via
> Ethernet to "localhost", "port 13666" so I'm not sure how the interface is a 
> Serial
> or USB.
> 
> Possibly through a driver. I think that Matrix Orbital might still
> make that specific display, but they are pretty old-school and
> expensive now.
> 
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> � George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
> 
> --
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
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Re: [Emc-users] Slaved axis

[andy pugh]

On 29 July 2018 at 18:25, John Dammeyer  wrote:

> If I understand the code  correctly it treats the display as if it's 
> connected via Ethernet to "localhost", "port 13666" so I'm not sure how the 
> interface is a Serial or USB.

Possibly through a driver. I think that Matrix Orbital might still
make that specific display, but they are pretty old-school and
expensive now.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

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Re: [Emc-users] Slaved axis

[John Dammeyer]

Thanks.
Interesting.  Would definitely need some rewriting for a Beagle or Pi since the 
getStats() func is looking for "/dev/hda1", and "top" command expects something 
different for "cpu" and "mem".

* The layout is for a 4 line by 20 character display. 
* Supported interfaces include Serial and USB.

If I understand the code  correctly it treats the display as if it's connected 
via Ethernet to "localhost", "port 13666" so I'm not sure how the interface is 
a Serial or USB.  There must be another task running that parks on that port 
and deals with physical I/O to a USB or Serial Module.

But certainly worth playing with to see how it works.  Really wish people would 
document more.  I feel like I'm missing some critical information but I don't 
know what I don't know.

John


> -Original Message-
> From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> Sent: July-29-18 5:48 AM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Slaved axis
> 
> On 29 July 2018 at 05:12, John Dammeyer  wrote:
> > I'm still pondering over replacing my ELS project with a Beaglebone running
> > MachineKit so it can run G-Code but use the keypad and display from my
> > original ELS and duplicate the manual style of operation when needed.
> 
> FWIW there used to be a LinuxCNC GUI specifically for a certain style
> of LCD with built-in buttons.
> 
> https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/blob/master/src/emc/usr_intf/emclc
> d.cc
> 
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> � George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
> 
> --
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users


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Re: [Emc-users] Slaved axis

[andy pugh]

On 29 July 2018 at 05:12, John Dammeyer  wrote:
> I'm still pondering over replacing my ELS project with a Beaglebone running
> MachineKit so it can run G-Code but use the keypad and display from my
> original ELS and duplicate the manual style of operation when needed.

FWIW there used to be a LinuxCNC GUI specifically for a certain style
of LCD with built-in buttons.

https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/blob/master/src/emc/usr_intf/emclcd.cc

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

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Re: [Emc-users] Slaved axis

[John Dammeyer]

I'm still pondering over replacing my ELS project with a Beaglebone running
MachineKit so it can run G-Code but use the keypad and display from my
original ELS and duplicate the manual style of operation when needed.  The
LCD display might well be replaced with a larger HDMI type Cell Phone size
display driven by the Beagle.  

What you see in this 11 year old video is automatic tapering.  But as I
described in the original posting of this thread the MPG knob and jog
buttons have the ELS cross slide and carriage synchronized.

https://youtu.be/RRaVIBhLgF0

So that's why I want it.  Whether it's a good idea or not isn't relevant.  I
could replace the PIC18F with a small module containing a PIC32 which has
Ethernet and USB.  But why reinvent a wheel when MachineKit does 90% of what
I want.

Thanks
John


> -Original Message-
> From: Gene Heskett [mailto:ghesk...@shentel.net]
> Sent: July-28-18 8:39 PM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Slaved axis
> 
> On Saturday 28 July 2018 20:13:20 John Dammeyer wrote:
> 
> > Quick question.  For a mill to move the tool bit from Point A to Point
> > B the software parsing the G Code Xn.nnnYm.mmm determines how fast to
> > accelerate and move each axis so a straight line is drawn between the
> > starting and new end points.  Similarly, if an arc is programed the
> > X,Y motion is including acceleration and deceleration to provide the
> > timed step pulses to move the tool in that arc motion.
> >
> > So with a lathe, the Z is the carriage, X is the cross slide. Again a
> > movement of Z with the idea of forming a taper means the Z and X are
> > specified and the system takes care of accelerating and moving each
> > axis the correct amount and speed so that a taper is cut.  For each
> > pass you'd move the X in for the next depth of cut and then specify a
> > relative move again. Spring passes without changing the X starting
> > point.
> >
> > What happens if you want to simulate something like my SouthBend with
> > the taper attachment where turning the carriage handwheel also moves
> > the cross slide along the taper.
> >
> > With MachineKit or LinuxCNC, the JOG keys or MPG moves the carriage.
> > Can the cross slide be programmed track the taper?  Is there a way to
> > 'link' the jog buttons so that they track with a mathematical formula?
> >  One could manually turn a ball end or some sort of other parabolic
> > curve for example.
> >
> > Thanks
> > John Dammeyer
> >
> Not too likely for doing it by hand John.  But in gcode, its a piece of
> cake to do to micron accuracy, whether its a straight line from A to B
> or even an arc, nurbs even if in the mood to cut a lot of air until
> you've got the pattern you want. See the G5 stuff for self calculating
> curves.
> 
> About the only way, and likely NOT repeatable, to do those sorts of
> curves is to find a big, long 4 way analog joystick. And figure out how
> to get its output into LCNC.
> 
> I have tried the usual usb "gamepad" like the Saitek, and have moved the
> little mill with it, but when zero to full speed is a 3/16" button
> motion, its simply uncontrollable.  With 3 or 4" extensions on the
> buttons and lots of practice, you might get used to it eventually, but
> broken tooling would still be a major expense while you were teaching
> your muscles to do whats pictured in your mind.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's
> > most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
> 
>

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Re: [Emc-users] Slaved axis

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 28 July 2018 20:13:20 John Dammeyer wrote:

> Quick question.  For a mill to move the tool bit from Point A to Point
> B the software parsing the G Code Xn.nnnYm.mmm determines how fast to
> accelerate and move each axis so a straight line is drawn between the
> starting and new end points.  Similarly, if an arc is programed the
> X,Y motion is including acceleration and deceleration to provide the
> timed step pulses to move the tool in that arc motion.
>
> So with a lathe, the Z is the carriage, X is the cross slide. Again a
> movement of Z with the idea of forming a taper means the Z and X are
> specified and the system takes care of accelerating and moving each
> axis the correct amount and speed so that a taper is cut.  For each
> pass you'd move the X in for the next depth of cut and then specify a
> relative move again. Spring passes without changing the X starting
> point.
>
> What happens if you want to simulate something like my SouthBend with
> the taper attachment where turning the carriage handwheel also moves
> the cross slide along the taper.
>
> With MachineKit or LinuxCNC, the JOG keys or MPG moves the carriage.
> Can the cross slide be programmed track the taper?  Is there a way to
> 'link' the jog buttons so that they track with a mathematical formula?
>  One could manually turn a ball end or some sort of other parabolic
> curve for example.
>
> Thanks
> John Dammeyer
>
Not too likely for doing it by hand John.  But in gcode, its a piece of 
cake to do to micron accuracy, whether its a straight line from A to B 
or even an arc, nurbs even if in the mood to cut a lot of air until 
you've got the pattern you want. See the G5 stuff for self calculating 
curves.

About the only way, and likely NOT repeatable, to do those sorts of 
curves is to find a big, long 4 way analog joystick. And figure out how 
to get its output into LCNC. 

I have tried the usual usb "gamepad" like the Saitek, and have moved the 
little mill with it, but when zero to full speed is a 3/16" button 
motion, its simply uncontrollable.  With 3 or 4" extensions on the 
buttons and lots of practice, you might get used to it eventually, but 
broken tooling would still be a major expense while you were teaching 
your muscles to do whats pictured in your mind.
>
>
>
>
> --
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's
> most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users



-- 
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] Slaved axis

[jeremy youngs]

On Sat, Jul 28, 2018, 7:32 PM andy pugh  wrote:

> On 29 July 2018 at 01:13, John Dammeyer  wrote:
>
> > With MachineKit or LinuxCNC, the JOG keys or MPG moves the carriage. Can
> the
> > cross slide be programmed track the taper?  Is there a way to 'link' the
> jog
> > buttons so that they track with a mathematical formula?
>
> Zero an indicator , then travel a known distance in z to figure taper,
> then g18 is your Friend.
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Re: [Emc-users] Slaved axis

[andy pugh]

On 29 July 2018 at 01:13, John Dammeyer  wrote:

> With MachineKit or LinuxCNC, the JOG keys or MPG moves the carriage. Can the
> cross slide be programmed track the taper?  Is there a way to 'link' the jog
> buttons so that they track with a mathematical formula?

All things are possible, but why?

With the external offsets branch you could use a lincurve linked to
the Z position to offset the X.

But why wouldn't you just do a coordinated G-code move?

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

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[Emc-users] Slaved axis

[John Dammeyer]

Quick question.  For a mill to move the tool bit from Point A to Point B the
software parsing the G Code Xn.nnnYm.mmm determines how fast to accelerate
and move each axis so a straight line is drawn between the starting and new
end points.  Similarly, if an arc is programed the X,Y motion is including
acceleration and deceleration to provide the timed step pulses to move the
tool in that arc motion.

So with a lathe, the Z is the carriage, X is the cross slide. Again a
movement of Z with the idea of forming a taper means the Z and X are
specified and the system takes care of accelerating and moving each axis the
correct amount and speed so that a taper is cut.  For each pass you'd move
the X in for the next depth of cut and then specify a relative move again.
Spring passes without changing the X starting point.

What happens if you want to simulate something like my SouthBend with the
taper attachment where turning the carriage handwheel also moves the cross
slide along the taper.  

With MachineKit or LinuxCNC, the JOG keys or MPG moves the carriage. Can the
cross slide be programmed track the taper?  Is there a way to 'link' the jog
buttons so that they track with a mathematical formula?  One could manually
turn a ball end or some sort of other parabolic curve for example.

Thanks
John Dammeyer






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