Re: [Emc-users] Toolchanging (was Mach3 to LinuxCNC)
On 23 October 2014 08:26, Gregg Eshelman g_ala...@yahoo.com wrote: The complexity arises in detecting failures and responding appropriately. (imagine if the air went off and the spindle didn't release). Wire an air pressure sensor switch into the e-stop circuit, same as you would any other system you want to have stop the machine if it fails. My point was that normal G-code just implicitly assumes that everything works. If you are coding a tool-changer as a G-code routine then you can't just issue a sequence of moves and rotations, you have to make sure that nothing has gone wrong at every stage and respond appropriately. And it might not be as simple as E-stop. (As an example, my Z axis is a moving table. It drops when the power goes off. I wouldn't want that to happen part way through a tool-change if I had a rack toolchanger, so the correct response to a failed tool-release or loss of air would not be to e-stop in that situation) I am not saying that it is difficult as such, but that the underlying paradigm is not the same as a normal G-code routine. -- atp If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Toolchanging (was Mach3 to LinuxCNC)
Pete, look at the toolchangers we did for the orac and triac. and the interaction between stages to see that each is completed ,. far far easier than remap in fact i hate remap , but i dont know why if i'm honest , it just does not seem to dig deep enough . and even the triac and orac changers dont , or at least as deep into the workings of lcnc as i'd like being able to move the head and interactively move between machine corrds and a working area and have everything know whats going on . i'm looking at auto tool measuring as part of the toolchanger process , which is proving difficult moving say under gcode pause then pass movement to a component , and back again , without loosing positional information etc Dave On 24 October 2014 10:55, andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com wrote: On 23 October 2014 08:26, Gregg Eshelman g_ala...@yahoo.com wrote: The complexity arises in detecting failures and responding appropriately. (imagine if the air went off and the spindle didn't release). Wire an air pressure sensor switch into the e-stop circuit, same as you would any other system you want to have stop the machine if it fails. My point was that normal G-code just implicitly assumes that everything works. If you are coding a tool-changer as a G-code routine then you can't just issue a sequence of moves and rotations, you have to make sure that nothing has gone wrong at every stage and respond appropriately. And it might not be as simple as E-stop. (As an example, my Z axis is a moving table. It drops when the power goes off. I wouldn't want that to happen part way through a tool-change if I had a rack toolchanger, so the correct response to a failed tool-release or loss of air would not be to e-stop in that situation) I am not saying that it is difficult as such, but that the underlying paradigm is not the same as a normal G-code routine. -- atp If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Toolchanging (was Mach3 to LinuxCNC)
On 24 October 2014 12:37, David Armstrong cncbas...@gmail.com wrote: look at the toolchangers we did for the orac and triac. and the interaction between stages to see that each is completed ,. far far easier than remap It depends.. For that toolchanger, definitely. For a rack-toolchanger that works entireley with axis movements then a G-code sub is easier. Then you can re-map so that M6 calls the G-code sub. in fact i hate remap , but i dont know why if i'm honest , it just does not seem to dig deep enough . It can dig as deep as you want, if you care to. It can call Python code with access to the the status and command channels, or you can send canonical commands. http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/common/python-interface.html descibes the linuxcnc.command and linixcnc.stat interfaces. i'm looking at auto tool measuring as part of the toolchanger process , which is proving difficult There is a sample config which may be close to what you need: http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb?p=linuxcnc.git;a=tree;f=configs/sim/axis/remap/manual-toolchange-with-tool-length-switch;h=287edcc6c855b8396b0d5a116f72d6de22dcec6d;hb=HEAD It does the probe with a G-code sub, but it would be possible (probably) to send a STRAIGHT_PROBE command. This test shows how to import emccanon and send motion commands directly: http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb?p=linuxcnc.git;a=blob;f=tests/interp/pymove/oword.py;hb=acd743ec4e4c34b2e89e06a4c521824ff4bb1417 But, this rather makes the point that toolchanging could potentially be easier for non-programmers :-) -- atp If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Toolchanging (was Mach3 to LinuxCNC)
On 10/24/2014 02:55 AM, andy pugh wrote: ... snip And it might not be as simple as E-stop. (As an example, my Z axis is a moving table. It drops when the power goes off. I wouldn't want that to happen part way through a tool-change if I had a rack toolchanger, so the correct response to a failed tool-release or loss of air would not be to e-stop in that situation) ... snip It sounds like you need one of these: http://www.warnerelectric.com/ers-series-brakes.asp My lathe has one for the spindle (top two pictures): http://www.wallacecompany.com/cnc_lathe/HNC/ As you probably know, servo motors are available with magnetic release brakes built in. The Tormach mills use them on the Z axis. If the power goes out, e-stop trips, or watchdog barks, the machine stops instantly. The magnetic engage clutches are handy too. -- Kirk Wallace http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/ http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/ -- ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Toolchanging (was Mach3 to LinuxCNC)
On 24 October 2014 17:11, Kirk Wallace kwall...@wallacecompany.com wrote: As you probably know, servo motors are available with magnetic release brakes built in. Indeed, but I don't have one. The entire mill was built around three motors I got cheap on eBay. -- atp If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Toolchanging (was Mach3 to LinuxCNC)
On 10/22/2014 4:00 PM, andy pugh wrote: On 22 October 2014 20:41, Pete Matos petefro...@gmail.com wrote: This is our next hurdle with our Cincinatti Arrow 500 VMC. It has a carousel toolchanger where the head must raise and lower to load the tool. Yes, I think you are a prime candidate for a G-code subroutine that moves the Z and operates actuators through digital/analogue inputs (M66 / M65 etc) The complexity arises in detecting failures and responding appropriately. (imagine if the air went off and the spindle didn't release). Wire an air pressure sensor switch into the e-stop circuit, same as you would any other system you want to have stop the machine if it fails. --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com -- ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] Toolchanging (was Mach3 to LinuxCNC)
On 22 October 2014 19:02, Dave Cole linuxcncro...@gmail.com wrote: On 10/22/2014 1:40 PM, andy pugh wrote: Hmm, thinking about it, how hard would it be for CL to drive axes directly? Perhaps that would go a long way towards helping. I think I have done what you are talking about. The limit3 component was key. That is one way, but I was meaning some sort of direct control of actual machine axes, such as moving the Z for a carousel or X and Y (and Z) for a rack. Admittedly the rack is now pretty simple with remapping. Perhaps what is really needed are a few documented examples of various styles of toolchanger. There is a rack example in sim/axis/remap, but I haven't tried it. (I don't actually have a toolchanger) -- atp If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Toolchanging (was Mach3 to LinuxCNC)
On 10/22/2014 2:33 PM, andy pugh wrote: On 22 October 2014 19:02, Dave Cole linuxcncro...@gmail.com wrote: On 10/22/2014 1:40 PM, andy pugh wrote: Hmm, thinking about it, how hard would it be for CL to drive axes directly? Perhaps that would go a long way towards helping. I think I have done what you are talking about. The limit3 component was key. That is one way, but I was meaning some sort of direct control of actual machine axes, such as moving the Z for a carousel or X and Y (and Z) for a rack. Admittedly the rack is now pretty simple with remapping. Perhaps what is really needed are a few documented examples of various styles of toolchanger. There is a rack example in sim/axis/remap, but I haven't tried it. (I don't actually have a toolchanger) Do you mean over-riding the machine axes to do the tool change while the program is still running? Is this similar to the jog while paused problem, except that you are not paused? Dave --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com -- ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Toolchanging (was Mach3 to LinuxCNC)
One way should be run multiple instances of LCNC (Xenomai rt patch I heard about). On commercial CNC is possible have multiple CNC channels that can share informations between them. Il giorno 22/ott/2014 19:59, Dave Cole linuxcncro...@gmail.com ha scritto: On 10/22/2014 2:33 PM, andy pugh wrote: On 22 October 2014 19:02, Dave Cole linuxcncro...@gmail.com wrote: On 10/22/2014 1:40 PM, andy pugh wrote: Hmm, thinking about it, how hard would it be for CL to drive axes directly? Perhaps that would go a long way towards helping. I think I have done what you are talking about. The limit3 component was key. That is one way, but I was meaning some sort of direct control of actual machine axes, such as moving the Z for a carousel or X and Y (and Z) for a rack. Admittedly the rack is now pretty simple with remapping. Perhaps what is really needed are a few documented examples of various styles of toolchanger. There is a rack example in sim/axis/remap, but I haven't tried it. (I don't actually have a toolchanger) Do you mean over-riding the machine axes to do the tool change while the program is still running? Is this similar to the jog while paused problem, except that you are not paused? Dave --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com -- ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Toolchanging (was Mach3 to LinuxCNC)
This is our next hurdle with our Cincinatti Arrow 500 VMC. It has a carousel toolchanger where the head must raise and lower to load the tool. Still working on spindle orient but that will be the next step. Connor seems to think he has a solution for this but we have yet to try it out he is using remap too. Peace Pete On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 2:59 PM, Dave Cole linuxcncro...@gmail.com wrote: On 10/22/2014 2:33 PM, andy pugh wrote: On 22 October 2014 19:02, Dave Cole linuxcncro...@gmail.com wrote: On 10/22/2014 1:40 PM, andy pugh wrote: Hmm, thinking about it, how hard would it be for CL to drive axes directly? Perhaps that would go a long way towards helping. I think I have done what you are talking about. The limit3 component was key. That is one way, but I was meaning some sort of direct control of actual machine axes, such as moving the Z for a carousel or X and Y (and Z) for a rack. Admittedly the rack is now pretty simple with remapping. Perhaps what is really needed are a few documented examples of various styles of toolchanger. There is a rack example in sim/axis/remap, but I haven't tried it. (I don't actually have a toolchanger) Do you mean over-riding the machine axes to do the tool change while the program is still running? Is this similar to the jog while paused problem, except that you are not paused? Dave --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com -- ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Pete Matos A and N Precision and Fabrication Maryville, Tennessee 865-236-8996 -- ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Toolchanging (was Mach3 to LinuxCNC)
On 22 October 2014 20:41, Pete Matos petefro...@gmail.com wrote: This is our next hurdle with our Cincinatti Arrow 500 VMC. It has a carousel toolchanger where the head must raise and lower to load the tool. Yes, I think you are a prime candidate for a G-code subroutine that moves the Z and operates actuators through digital/analogue inputs (M66 / M65 etc) The complexity arises in detecting failures and responding appropriately. (imagine if the air went off and the spindle didn't release). -- atp If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Toolchanging (was Mach3 to LinuxCNC)
Well we have a low pressure sensor already in the machine and it is not yet implemented in the toolchange setup but it will be. Now not sure what you mean about the G-code subs is that remap? what actuators are you talking about? Detecting failures is already built into the machine with redundancies of switches at both ends of each movement. Timing setups will be needed to get it working safely. Pete On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 6:00 PM, andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com wrote: On 22 October 2014 20:41, Pete Matos petefro...@gmail.com wrote: This is our next hurdle with our Cincinatti Arrow 500 VMC. It has a carousel toolchanger where the head must raise and lower to load the tool. Yes, I think you are a prime candidate for a G-code subroutine that moves the Z and operates actuators through digital/analogue inputs (M66 / M65 etc) The complexity arises in detecting failures and responding appropriately. (imagine if the air went off and the spindle didn't release). -- atp If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Pete Matos A and N Precision and Fabrication Maryville, Tennessee 865-236-8996 -- ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Toolchanging (was Mach3 to LinuxCNC)
On 22 October 2014 23:06, Pete Matos petefro...@gmail.com wrote: Timing setups will be needed to get it working safely. Coding a timeout in G-code should be easy, though I have never tried. M66 (for example) sets #5399 if it times-out, and the remap structure introduces both the (abort, ) magic comment and a way to specify a clean-up routine in the INI file. http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/remap/structure.html#_error_handling_dealing_with_abort So, M66 P1 L1 Q5 O100 IF [#5399 LT 0] (abort, Oh Noes!) O100 endif http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode/m-code.html#sec:M66-Input-Control indicates that there are only 4 analogue and digital inputs, but actually that is configurable in the loadrt motmod line: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man9/motion.9.html (num_dio and num_aio) -- atp If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
