Re: [Emc-users] Upset old fart

[rayj]

Thanks for the info!  Guess I should have done more research before I 
put the question out.


Thanks again.

Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN

The things we admire in men, kindness and generosity, openness, honesty, 
understanding and feeling are the concomitants of failure in our system. 
And those traits we detest, sharpness, greed, acquisitiveness, meanness, 
egotism and self-interest are the traits of success. And while men 
admire the quality of the first they love the produce of the second. 
-John Steinbeck, novelist, Nobel laureate (1902-1968)

On 09/03/2016 06:50 AM, Ron Ginger wrote:
> The Logan company is still in business, and Scott Logan is often seen on
> some of the hobby metalworking sites. He does have more support for the
> lathes but might be able to help on a shaper.
>
> http://www.loganact.com/
>
> ron ginger
>
>
>> rayj 
>> Subject: Re: [Emc-users]
>> To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"
>>  
>> Message-ID: 
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
>>
>> On the topic of resources for old machines, does anyone have any good
>> resources for Logan tools.  I have a little Logan shaper I need a part
>> for.  Any suggestions would be appreciated.
>>
>> TIA.
>>
>> Raymond Julian
>> Kettle River, MN
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Upset old fart

[Ron Ginger]

The Logan company is still in business, and Scott Logan is often seen on 
some of the hobby metalworking sites. He does have more support for the 
lathes but might be able to help on a shaper.

http://www.loganact.com/

ron ginger


> rayj 
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users]
> To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"
>   
> Message-ID: 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
>
> On the topic of resources for old machines, does anyone have any good
> resources for Logan tools.  I have a little Logan shaper I need a part
> for.  Any suggestions would be appreciated.
>
> TIA.
>
> Raymond Julian
> Kettle River, MN


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[Emc-users] Upset old fart

[richshoop]

Logan STILL provides factory parts. (815) 943-6755. Had to buy a cluster gear 
for my 1949 model Logan lathe About $210 and wait a week. I am totally 
impressed. 

- Original Message -

From: emc-users-requ...@lists.sourceforge.net 
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Subject: Emc-users Digest, Vol 125, Issue 10 

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Today's Topics: 

1. Re: What does "CNC" really mean? (Gene Heskett) 
2. Re: summing Z axes? (Ken Johnson) 
3. Re: Upset old fart (rayj) 
4. Re: What does "CNC" really mean? (Jon Elson) 
5. Re: What does "CNC" really mean? (Jon Elson) 
6. Re: Nice old iron (Jon Elson) 
7. Suitability question (Gene Heskett) 


-- 

Message: 1 
Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2016 17:57:32 -0400 
From: Gene Heskett  
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] What does "CNC" really mean? 
To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net 
Message-ID: <201609021757.32359.ghesk...@shentel.net> 
Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" 

On Friday 02 September 2016 13:42:09 Dave Cole wrote: 

> And what about hanging chads?? ;-) 
> 
Chuckle, there is a law, if someone mentions chad, somebody else has to 
ask if its hanging. :) 

Cheers, Gene Heskett 
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: 
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." 
-Ed Howdershelt (Author) 
Genes Web page  



-- 

Message: 2 
Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2016 08:05:13 +1000 
From: Ken Johnson  
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] summing Z axes? 
To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
 
Message-ID: 

Re: [Emc-users] Upset old fart

[rayj]

On the topic of resources for old machines, does anyone have any good 
resources for Logan tools.  I have a little Logan shaper I need a part 
for.  Any suggestions would be appreciated.

TIA.

Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN

The things we admire in men, kindness and generosity, openness, honesty, 
understanding and feeling are the concomitants of failure in our system. 
And those traits we detest, sharpness, greed, acquisitiveness, meanness, 
egotism and self-interest are the traits of success. And while men 
admire the quality of the first they love the produce of the second. 
-John Steinbeck, novelist, Nobel laureate (1902-1968)

On 09/02/2016 10:32 AM, Jon Elson wrote:
> On 09/02/2016 08:21 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
>> On Friday 02 September 2016 01:32:55 Jon Elson wrote:
>>   But, best to check with John
>> Knox on the Sheldon group, he is from the family that owned
>> Sheldon and worked for a number of years in the factory.  He
>> has the remaining docs on everything Sheldon built, and can
>> tell you what it was SUPPOSED to be made of.
>>
>> Jon
>> URL?
>>
>>
> Sorry, I thought I'd already given that to you -
> sheldonla...@yahoogroups.com
>
> A fantastic resource even without John Knox, but it is
> almost like having the factory still open with his
> contributions.  I had some missing pieces in my apron when I
> dug in there, and he gave me the part numbers and current
> sources!  Totally awesome!
>
> As for way wipers, there is a guy on there who is making
> them for the smaller lathes.  I have the material to make
> them for the big lathes.  If you have the wiper cover
> pieces, cutting your own felt is not a big deal.
>
> Jon
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Upset old fart

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 02 September 2016 11:32:25 Jon Elson wrote:

> On 09/02/2016 08:21 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Friday 02 September 2016 01:32:55 Jon Elson wrote:
> >   But, best to check with John
> > Knox on the Sheldon group, he is from the family that owned
> > Sheldon and worked for a number of years in the factory.  He
> > has the remaining docs on everything Sheldon built, and can
> > tell you what it was SUPPOSED to be made of.
> >
> > Jon
> > URL?
>
> Sorry, I thought I'd already given that to you -
> sheldonla...@yahoogroups.com
>
You may have, and as a slightly modified old saying goes, it went in one 
eyeball, and out the other, leaving no footprints in the process. :( I 
am now subscribed. :)

> A fantastic resource even without John Knox, but it is
> almost like having the factory still open with his
> contributions.  I had some missing pieces in my apron when I
> dug in there, and he gave me the part numbers and current
> sources!  Totally awesome!
>
> As for way wipers, there is a guy on there who is making
> them for the smaller lathes.  I have the material to make
> them for the big lathes.  If you have the wiper cover
> pieces, cutting your own felt is not a big deal.

I do, they are all present and accounted for. And a copious supply of 
old, thick felt hats that have "lost their luster" with age.  So I can 
solve that problem.  Now if I could just get my rider to run on an 
nearly empty gas tank on a 5 degree side slope.  So thats the 2nd trip 
out today, first was for a paper and a couple quarts of 5-30 synthetic 
because it was low on oil when I found a flat enough place to check it.  
Here in WV, flat, level ground you make with a dozer and a good 
operator. Otherwise grow a short leg on one side...

Or a Mexican backhoe (I own several) but with my back it will be a small 
space at a time.

> Jon
>
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] Upset old fart

[Jon Elson]

On 09/02/2016 08:21 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Friday 02 September 2016 01:32:55 Jon Elson wrote:
>   But, best to check with John
> Knox on the Sheldon group, he is from the family that owned
> Sheldon and worked for a number of years in the factory.  He
> has the remaining docs on everything Sheldon built, and can
> tell you what it was SUPPOSED to be made of.
>
> Jon
> URL?
>
>
Sorry, I thought I'd already given that to you -
sheldonla...@yahoogroups.com

A fantastic resource even without John Knox, but it is 
almost like having the factory still open with his 
contributions.  I had some missing pieces in my apron when I 
dug in there, and he gave me the part numbers and current 
sources!  Totally awesome!

As for way wipers, there is a guy on there who is making 
them for the smaller lathes.  I have the material to make 
them for the big lathes.  If you have the wiper cover 
pieces, cutting your own felt is not a big deal.

Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] Upset old fart

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 02 September 2016 04:50:45 Erik Christiansen wrote:

> On 02.09.16 04:22, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > Is there a plausible reason I should make the gib strips out of
> > brass?
>
> Yeah, durability in a high production environment. For making a few
> onsies here and there, the Al will probably do for years, I figure.
>
Well, I am considering removeing that rear extension anyway, so it will 
be sawed down to just the length of the crossfeed slider, and some sort 
of a swarf cover put in over the ball screw.  That alone brings it down 
into the realm of a size I can make without any huge drama should the 
need arise before I fall over.

And I expect most of what I do with it could be called onsies. :)

> As for it maybe being Al-bronze, the one I alloyed up was deep golden
> and denser than steel, due to a heap of Cu. The Al with just 3% Cu and
> 2-3% Zn that I alloyed looked like unalloyed Al, but age hardened to
> the point that the owner of a round-column mill swore that it couldn't
> be Al, and wouldn't chomp at it with his little mill until I had
> annealed it. Whether to call that an Al-bronze, I leave to others.

If this one is OEM, its nearly white which may indicate some Zn, but I 
sure don't see anything in the color I'd relate to Cu.

> Erik
>
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] Upset old fart

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 02 September 2016 01:32:55 Jon Elson wrote:

> On 09/01/2016 11:45 PM, Andy Pugh wrote:
> >> On 2 Sep 2016, at 01:07, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> >>
> >> one problem, the SOB is made out of aluminum!
> >>
> >> So, what the heck do I do about that?
> >
> > How about using it? It appears to have lasted this long and the
> > lathe saddle gib doesn't work very hard. Maybe it is original and
> > Sheldon knew  something you don't?
>
> It might be aluminum bronze.  But, best to check with John
> Knox on the Sheldon group, he is from the family that owned
> Sheldon and worked for a number of years in the factory.  He
> has the remaining docs on everything Sheldon built, and can
> tell you what it was SUPPOSED to be made of.
>
> Jon

URL?

Googled for sheldon group, got about 100 hits but all financial
sheldon lathe group got a bunch including one at yahoo, but I am stuck in 
signup hell. I am a member of another mailing list, and they insist on 
say I already exist and can't join again. Had them send me a new account 
key, which of course went straight to the spam folder.  I finally got 
around that, but now I am forced to subscribe, we'll see how that goes.  
Gawd I hate dealing with yahoo.

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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] Upset old fart

[Erik Christiansen]

On 02.09.16 04:22, Gene Heskett wrote:
> Is there a plausible reason I should make the gib strips out of brass?  

Yeah, durability in a high production environment. For making a few
onsies here and there, the Al will probably do for years, I figure.

As for it maybe being Al-bronze, the one I alloyed up was deep golden
and denser than steel, due to a heap of Cu. The Al with just 3% Cu and
2-3% Zn that I alloyed looked like unalloyed Al, but age hardened to the
point that the owner of a round-column mill swore that it couldn't be
Al, and wouldn't chomp at it with his little mill until I had annealed
it. Whether to call that an Al-bronze, I leave to others.

Erik

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Re: [Emc-users] Upset old fart

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 02 September 2016 00:48:13 Andy Pugh wrote:

> > On 2 Sep 2016, at 01:07, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> >
> > Also, is anyone selling way wipers? These are worn off about 20 thou
> > short of sitting on the ways _& actually wiping.
>
> I have seen 3D printed ones for Colchester lathes on eBay.
> I anticipate making some for my Holbrook out of cheap cutting mats. (I
> got a set and don't need the meat or fish one)

I've considered that too, as I have an old felt hat that I've 
cut "washers" out of for screw wipers. Its about the right thickness, 
possibly a little thin at circa 1/8". 3/16" would be icing on this cake. 
The edge of the brim at nearly 1/4" might work quite well.  Make a miter 
joint out of 2 small bits of it. Some of that go2 silicon glue should do 
the miter joint.

Where I am, "saving time" is taking the time to make it, 3 weeks quicker 
than buying it online.

Thanks Andy.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] Upset old fart

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 02 September 2016 00:45:42 Andy Pugh wrote:

> > On 2 Sep 2016, at 01:07, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> >
> > one problem, the SOB is made out of aluminum!
> >
> > So, what the heck do I do about that?
>
> How about using it? It appears to have lasted this long and the lathe
> saddle gib doesn't work very hard. Maybe it is original and Sheldon
> knew  something you don't?

This is the crossfeed gib, about 18" long due to the rear extension for 
the taper attachment. Of no use to me, but if I saw it off, that will 
remove the spacing web, and I may as well just remove the whole 
extension.  That would leave the crossfeed sled only about 6" long, and 
in any event I'll need to come up with a swarf cover for the x screw.

The saddle itself has only a couple of flat tabs on the front rail, not 
even as much metal as the ones I took off the little monster, and a full 
width flat bar with a stack of shim stock on the back rail.  All 3 of 
those are worn at least 20 thou, so I am inclined to make new ones, 
although the rear one could be turned over.  There is no reason I 
couldn't make the front one full length now, that 3/4" long left front 
one would be worn out again by the time I miss morning roll call.

The one of the right front corner is the saddle lock, but is worn enough 
its not very effective, and the locking screw needs a wrench handle 
extender for leverage, its quite hard to turn until loosened around 3 
turns.  Both front ones are also pinned for anti-rotation.  They have 
that home made look to them.  The ends bear marks from a hacksaw. If the 
left front was ever adjusted by shim, there aren't any in it now. To me, 
the left front is the most important of the lot as it should not allow 
the saddle to rise under heavy cutting loads.  From the wear, its 
obviously done a lot of resistance already. As for a saddle lock, the Z 
screw came yesterday, and I'm thinking it will be its own lock when that 
motor is at resting current. Without the lock and the rack, there is 
room for a wider, stronger full width bar like on the rear, and the 
thought of locating some more brass stock and making a tapered gib setup 
for both front and rear is tempting.  But I'd need a longer jig than the 
one I made for the little monster.  About twice as long.  That I have in 
the form of a 1" thick, 2" wide, 12 or 13 inches long bar, a cutoff I 
bought off the floor of another machine shop. That would make a good 
jig.  But we'll try flat stock first.

Is there a plausible reason I should make the gib strips out of brass?  

Steel, in this size category ( a foot long ) makes more sense. Brasses 
tendency to warp and wind when machining caused me 2 days to stress 
relieve it in the oven and about 3 days work to straighten and drawfile 
the little monsters strips into usability. Made 2x more difficult by 
discovering the damned file I was using for flat reference wasn't, it 
was twisted about 1/16" over its length!  Some mornings it doesn't pay 
to gnaw thru the straps...

I need to buy a couple more, but they'll be checked against a flat 
surface before they head for the cash register...

Thanks Andy.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] Upset old fart

[Jon Elson]

On 09/01/2016 11:45 PM, Andy Pugh wrote:
>
>> On 2 Sep 2016, at 01:07, Gene Heskett  wrote:
>>
>> one problem, the SOB is made out of aluminum!
>>
>> So, what the heck do I do about that?
> How about using it? It appears to have lasted this long and the lathe saddle 
> gib doesn't work very hard.
> Maybe it is original and Sheldon knew  something you don't?
>
It might be aluminum bronze.  But, best to check with John 
Knox on the Sheldon group, he is from the family that owned 
Sheldon and worked for a number of years in the factory.  He 
has the remaining docs on everything Sheldon built, and can 
tell you what it was SUPPOSED to be made of.

Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] Upset old fart

[Andy Pugh]

> On 2 Sep 2016, at 01:07, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> 
> Also, is anyone selling way wipers? These are worn off about 20 thou 
> short of sitting on the ways _& actually wiping.

I have seen 3D printed ones for Colchester lathes on eBay.  
I anticipate making some for my Holbrook out of cheap cutting mats. (I got a 
set and don't need the meat or fish one)
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Re: [Emc-users] Upset old fart

[Andy Pugh]

> On 2 Sep 2016, at 01:07, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> 
> one problem, the SOB is made out of aluminum!
> 
> So, what the heck do I do about that?  

How about using it? It appears to have lasted this long and the lathe saddle 
gib doesn't work very hard. 
Maybe it is original and Sheldon knew  something you don't? 
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[Emc-users] Upset old fart

[Gene Heskett]

Greetings;

I decided to remove the saddle & see what I could come up with, with the 
idea of making the screw in boss the crossfeed handle into the thrust 
anchor, with room for the nuts etc to get it clamped onto the X drive 
screw.

I hit paydirt on that in that I now have removed about an oz of cast iron 
and gained lost of room to make everything work.

But the first thing I did was open the garage door to get room to slide 
the cross slider off the rear of the saddle.  And when I had done that, 
what fell out into my hand but the gib. Well machined yadda yadda.  Just 
one problem, the SOB is made out of aluminum!

So, what the heck do I do about that?

Cross section wise they look to be pretty much the same size as any other 
similarly adjusted gibs, but of course 2x the length?

Is it possible to buy ready made steel or brass gib strips that (about 
18") long, where I could slide them in, bring in the dog screws and mark 
them & then mill on the mark?

Also, is anyone selling way wipers? These are worn off about 20 thou 
short of sitting on the ways _& actually wiping.

Thanks everybody.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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