Re: [Emc-users] Zeiss touch probes
On 11 May 2018 at 16:29, Peter Blodow wrote: > Which photo? And a ROM is a good way to hide secrets, chapeau!. It's not a ROM, it's actually an 8-bit microcontroller. https://photos.app.goo.gl/5irhaBb6gPQyRB7w5 And the other side seems to feature a quad comparator, a pair of dual DACs and some op-amps. https://photos.app.goo.gl/1kzB9FXHC7ZhdCMC2 It all seems a bit over-the-top -- atp "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics." — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916 -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Zeiss touch probes
My Fluke 87 same way. The "beep" mode is turned separately after resistance mode is selected. Only works at very low resistances Show original message On Thursday, May 10, 2018 5:35 PM, andy pugh wrote: On 10 May 2018 at 23:14, Rene Hopf wrote: > beep mode is usually diode mode, and will show you voltage drop and not ohms. Diode mode is a separate setting on this meter. (Fluke 15B+) -- atp "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics." — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916 -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Zeiss touch probes
On 11 May 2018 at 16:29, Peter Blodow wrote: > Which photo? Oops! This photo. https://photos.app.goo.gl/co0pbh3eP708Rco32 -- atp "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics." — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916 -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Zeiss touch probes
Which photo? And a ROM is a good way to hide secrets, chapeau!. Peter Am 11.05.2018 um 11:11 schrieb andy pugh: On 11 May 2018 at 07:33, Peter Blodow wrote: Andy, Zeiss uses the "switching" function as a major argument in advertising this probe, so measuring the bare resistance wouldn't be satisfying. There must be a feature you didn't find when destroying your probe. There is nothing clever in the probe head, just the piezo and two resistors. In the interface unit that the probe connects to (there is one in this photo) there is a _lot_ of stuff including what looks like a big old ROM chip. -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Zeiss touch probes
On 11 May 2018 at 07:33, Peter Blodow wrote: > Andy, > Zeiss uses the "switching" function as a major argument in advertising this > probe, so measuring the bare resistance wouldn't be satisfying. There must > be a feature you didn't find when destroying your probe. There is nothing clever in the probe head, just the piezo and two resistors. In the interface unit that the probe connects to (there is one in this photo) there is a _lot_ of stuff including what looks like a big old ROM chip. -- atp "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics." — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916 -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Zeiss touch probes
Andy, Zeiss uses the "switching" function as a major argument in advertising this probe, so measuring the bare resistance wouldn't be satisfying. There must be a feature you didn't find when destroying your probe. It's digital this way. Unfortunately, on the Zeiss homepage, when selecting the catalog with detailed description of the RST-P's functionality they answer the page is currently not available. Peter Am 11.05.2018 um 00:08 schrieb andy pugh: On 10 May 2018 at 21:09, Andrew wrote: The interface is a 5-ring connector like a jack plug. I haven't managed to figure out which ring is which, and Zeiss are not saying. So it must be two NC contacts and the rest for the piezo. Yes, I figured that much out, the question was which is which. I damaged one trying to get it apart, so decided to simply part-off the top on the lathe. (They really are not designed for disassembly). It turns out that the NC contacts are part of a resistor network. There is a 90k across the contacts and a 470k in series. That was why my beep-test didn't work (I had not realised that putting my multimeter in beep mode also locks it in single-ohms mode, so the display was showing nothing.) So, working purely as a touch-probe they show 76kΩ when un-triggered and 90kΩ when triggered. So I need to find a way to convert that to a digital input for LinuxCNC. (I may well just ignore the piezo element) -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Zeiss touch probes
Actually the Renishaw design doesn't work that well due to lobeing issues. That is, the break point differs due to the angle of the kinematic support with respect to the approach to the object being measured. That is the reason for the superiority of the Zeiss design. > -Original Message- > From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2018 6:50 PM > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Zeiss touch probes > > On 10 May 2018 at 23:45, Ken Strauss wrote: > > I have no definite knowledge of the Zeiss probes but isn't the > > mechanical switch just to indicate an Estop condition for serious > > overtravel? I believe that there are piezo sensors for the actual probing. > > There are, but the original Renishaw design works fine with just the > mechanical contacts. > > I might try to make the piezo work eventually, but that means designing, > building and testing a charge-amp. > > -- > atp > "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed > for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics." > - George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916 > > -- > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging > tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot > ___ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Zeiss touch probes
On 10 May 2018 at 23:45, Ken Strauss wrote: > I have no definite knowledge of the Zeiss probes but isn't the mechanical > switch just to indicate an Estop condition for serious overtravel? I believe > that there are piezo sensors for the actual probing. There are, but the original Renishaw design works fine with just the mechanical contacts. I might try to make the piezo work eventually, but that means designing, building and testing a charge-amp. -- atp "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics." — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916 -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Zeiss touch probes
I have no definite knowledge of the Zeiss probes but isn't the mechanical switch just to indicate an Estop condition for serious overtravel? I believe that there are piezo sensors for the actual probing. > -Original Message- > From: Rene Hopf [mailto:reneh...@mac.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2018 6:34 PM > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Zeiss touch probes > > > > > On 11. May 2018, at 00:29, Andrew wrote: > > > >> So, working purely as a touch-probe they show 76k? when un-triggered > >> and 90k? when triggered. So I need to find a way to convert that to a > >> digital input for LinuxCNC. > >> (I may well just ignore the piezo element) > > the inputs on the stmbl are analog, and have configurable threshold voltage. > -- > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging > tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot > ___ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Zeiss touch probes
On 10 May 2018 at 23:14, Rene Hopf wrote: > beep mode is usually diode mode, and will show you voltage drop and not ohms. Diode mode is a separate setting on this meter. (Fluke 15B+) -- atp "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics." — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916 -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Zeiss touch probes
> On 11. May 2018, at 00:29, Andrew wrote: > >> So, working purely as a touch-probe they show 76kΩ when un-triggered >> and 90kΩ when triggered. So I need to find a way to convert that to a >> digital input for LinuxCNC. >> (I may well just ignore the piezo element) the inputs on the stmbl are analog, and have configurable threshold voltage. -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Zeiss touch probes
2018-05-11 1:08 GMT+03:00 andy pugh : > > It turns out that the NC contacts are part of a resistor network. > There is a 90k across the contacts and a 470k in series. That was why > my beep-test didn't work (I had not realised that putting my > multimeter in beep mode also locks it in single-ohms mode, so the > display was showing nothing.) > > So, working purely as a touch-probe they show 76kΩ when un-triggered > and 90kΩ when triggered. So I need to find a way to convert that to a > digital input for LinuxCNC. > (I may well just ignore the piezo element) > > Arduino? -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Zeiss touch probes
> On 11. May 2018, at 00:08, andy pugh wrote: > > (I had not realised that putting my > multimeter in beep mode also locks it in single-ohms mode, so the > display was showing nothing.) beep mode is usually diode mode, and will show you voltage drop and not ohms. -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Zeiss touch probes
On 10 May 2018 at 21:09, Andrew wrote: >> The interface is a 5-ring connector like a jack plug. >> I haven't managed to figure out which ring is which, and Zeiss are not >> saying. > So it must be two NC contacts and the rest for the piezo. Yes, I figured that much out, the question was which is which. I damaged one trying to get it apart, so decided to simply part-off the top on the lathe. (They really are not designed for disassembly). It turns out that the NC contacts are part of a resistor network. There is a 90k across the contacts and a 470k in series. That was why my beep-test didn't work (I had not realised that putting my multimeter in beep mode also locks it in single-ohms mode, so the display was showing nothing.) So, working purely as a touch-probe they show 76kΩ when un-triggered and 90kΩ when triggered. So I need to find a way to convert that to a digital input for LinuxCNC. (I may well just ignore the piezo element) -- atp "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics." — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916 -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Zeiss touch probes
2018-05-10 22:56 GMT+03:00 andy pugh : > Does anyone know how the Zeiss RST-P touch-probes work? As well as the > normal 3-way ball and bars kinematic mount they have a piezo element. > The interface is a 5-ring connector like a jack plug. > I haven't managed to figure out which ring is which, and Zeiss are not > saying. > They say https://www.zeiss.com/metrology/products/sensors/on-cmm/tactile-scanning-probe/rst-p.html ZEISS RST-P works according to a dual principle. This means it delivers the > actual probing pulse from the Piezo-electric elements located in front of > the kink point. The three-point bearing also serves as a mechanical kink > point that verifies probing and protects ZEISS RST-P from damage caused by > contact with the workpiece and collisions. Moreover, the deflection forces caused by the bearings and direction do not > influence the measuring result: ZEISS RST-P delivers the same accuracy in > all probing directions. Special calibration is not required for slanted > measuring or probing jobs. So it must be two NC contacts and the rest for the piezo. -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] Zeiss touch probes
Does anyone know how the Zeiss RST-P touch-probes work? As well as the normal 3-way ball and bars kinematic mount they have a piezo element. The interface is a 5-ring connector like a jack plug. I haven't managed to figure out which ring is which, and Zeiss are not saying. -- atp "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics." — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916 -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
