Re: [Emc-users] half-assed cnc

2015-02-12 Thread Gene Heskett 
On Wednesday, February 11, 2015 09:09:34 AM kqt4a...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wed, 11 Feb 2015, Gregg Eshelman wrote:
> > On 2/10/2015 3:48 PM, kqt4a...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> Has anyone tried something like an encoder on the lead screw of a
> >> lathe, a stepper on the cross feed, and LinuxCNC to synchronize
> >> them. Could be used for tapers, curves, etc.
> > 
> > It's called Electronic Lead Screw. http://autoartisans.com/ELS/ It
> > drives one stepper on the lead screw and uses a single point rotation
> > sensor on the spindle.
> > 
> > It does have the ability to connect an external stepper driver to run
> > a motor on the cross slide to do tapers and other non-linear cuts.
> > 
> > The main point of this setup is to use instead of a quick change
> > gearbox for threading and power feeds, thus it doesn't need a
> > powered cross slide to do threads and straight cuts.
> 
> I have looked at ELS. What I am thinking is only a stepper on the cross
> feed.

_IF_ you have an encoder on the spindle, then that synchronised motion 
control is already built into LinuxCNC...

The stepper on the crossfeed is very handy too. :) 

Check the docs for the various modes G33.X can synchronize tool motions to 
spindle for threading, or if straight no taper, use g76. All you need is 
the encoder on the spindle so linuxcnc knows where the spindle is in its 
rotation.  My home-made quadrature output encoder is 200 steps per rev, or 
1.8 degrees accurate if perfectly made, probably a 2 degree accuracy in 
the real world.  And it can track the spindle at 3+ grand using raw 
parport or probably to 30k revs if using a 5i25 like I am.

Although my present spindle gearing limits that to around 1400 revs.  At 
30k revs, I think I or that lathe would druther be over in the next 
drainage. ;-) 

The beauty of all that is that if you need a 50 tpi adjuster "bolt" that 
fits a 3" diameter, similarly threaded hole, but only 1/8" long, it is 
just a few parameters on the G33.1 or G76 line of gcode.  The machine Just 
Does It(TM).

Your problem will be in getting it started into the hole without 
crossthreading. :(

Cheers, Gene Heskett
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Re: [Emc-users] half-assed cnc

2015-02-12 Thread Gene Heskett 
On Tuesday, February 10, 2015 05:48:24 PM kqt4a...@gmail.com wrote:
> Has anyone tried something like an encoder on the lead screw of a
> lathe, a stepper on the cross feed, and LinuxCNC to synchronize them.
> Could be used for tapers, curves, etc.

I considered that, but since I has so much backlash between there and the 
tool tip, mostly in the half nut, I took the chicken way out, made a new 
apron to mount the ball screw nut to, bought a cheap Chinese 16x5 ball 
screw (its a 7x12 toy) and made home-made taper lock hubs to adapt one of 
the 40 tooth change gears to a 425oz motor shaft, did the same for an 80 
tooth from the change gear kit to put it on the end of the Chinese screw.  
Works quite well at up to 60 ipm rapids.  I put another 425 on the back of 
the carriage, with a teeny 8mm ball screw with a no flange ball screw nut 
I put in a steel cage to anchor it.  Then last summer I cabbaged a 1 hp 
treadmill motor that is now working well using a scrap pile 1.5kw psu, and 
one of Jon's (Pico) servo drivers to run it.  That amplifier is amazing 
and I will recommend it heartily, but for CCW use to drive a spindle the 
toroids need the next heavier gauge wire in the windings to control ohmic 
heating. IACS, like a servo motor driver, its a great amplifier. I have 
yet to measure the power bugs at more than 3F over ambient, they are very 
very good switches.

It has done some interesting work for BP rifle parts since.

Basically, without a ball screw drive, an encoder on the carriage drive 
screw is not much better than a SWAG.  You would be much more accurate to 
put a DRO resolver on the carriage.  Resolver may not be the correct word, 
its the same as the thing they use in fancy DRO kits. Overgrown 6" digital 
calipers we all own several of.

Those you can feed back to linuxcnc from what I've read here.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
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Re: [Emc-users] half-assed cnc

2015-02-12 Thread Eric Keller 
I agree, I went through the same thought process and decided ELS wasn't
worth it in comparison to a full cnc.

Has anyone tried cnc'ing the cross screw from the shaft that is the normal
driver?  Seems like a crummy mechanical solution, but it has big advantages
in ease of installation

On Thu, Feb 12, 2015 at 8:51 AM, John Alexander Stewart 
wrote:

> Dave -
>
> Thought about doing that, then thought "why bother?" it's a half-solution,
> why not go the whole way and actually have a machine that can cut tapers,
> threads, contours, etc...
>
> (I measured up one of my lathes for a fellow called Graham Meek, who
> publishes designs for (amongst other things) a threading gizmo clutch
> thing. Beautiful work, intelligent designer. But, the lathe that I measured
> was apart because it's slowly getting CNC'd - easier and more flexible than
> the mechanical solution)
>
> John.
>
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Re: [Emc-users] half-assed cnc

2015-02-12 Thread kqt4at5v 
On Thu, 12 Feb 2015, John Alexander Stewart wrote:

> Dave -
>
> Thought about doing that, then thought "why bother?" it's a half-solution,
> why not go the whole way and actually have a machine that can cut tapers,
> threads, contours, etc...
>
> (I measured up one of my lathes for a fellow called Graham Meek, who
> publishes designs for (amongst other things) a threading gizmo clutch
> thing. Beautiful work, intelligent designer. But, the lathe that I measured
> was apart because it's slowly getting CNC'd - easier and more flexible than
> the mechanical solution)
>

I think it would be a fun detour on the road to full cnc and for me 
learning and fun is what it is about. I have many do-dads lying on a shelf 
that have no practical use but gave me a lot of pleasure to build.

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Re: [Emc-users] half-assed cnc

2015-02-12 Thread John Alexander Stewart 
Dave -

Thought about doing that, then thought "why bother?" it's a half-solution,
why not go the whole way and actually have a machine that can cut tapers,
threads, contours, etc...

(I measured up one of my lathes for a fellow called Graham Meek, who
publishes designs for (amongst other things) a threading gizmo clutch
thing. Beautiful work, intelligent designer. But, the lathe that I measured
was apart because it's slowly getting CNC'd - easier and more flexible than
the mechanical solution)

John.
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Re: [Emc-users] half-assed cnc

2015-02-11 Thread Dave Cole 
I think you can do what you are talking about with LinuxCNC and some HAL 
work.   But apparently no one on this list has actually done that.

Dave

On 2/11/2015 9:09 AM, kqt4a...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wed, 11 Feb 2015, Gregg Eshelman wrote:
>
>> On 2/10/2015 3:48 PM, kqt4a...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> Has anyone tried something like an encoder on the lead screw of a lathe, a
>>> stepper on the cross feed, and LinuxCNC to synchronize them. Could be used
>>> for tapers, curves, etc.
>> It's called Electronic Lead Screw. http://autoartisans.com/ELS/ It
>> drives one stepper on the lead screw and uses a single point rotation
>> sensor on the spindle.
>>
>> It does have the ability to connect an external stepper driver to run a
>> motor on the cross slide to do tapers and other non-linear cuts.
>>
>> The main point of this setup is to use instead of a quick change gearbox
>> for threading and power feeds, thus it doesn't need a powered cross
>> slide to do threads and straight cuts.
>>
> I have looked at ELS. What I am thinking is only a stepper on the cross
> feed.
>
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> look and join the conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/
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Re: [Emc-users] half-assed cnc

2015-02-11 Thread andy pugh 
On 12 February 2015 at 01:05, Gregg Eshelman  wrote:
> Ah, so the computer controls the in-feed, synchronized with the lathe's
> mechanical feed, relying on the machinist to stop it.

That sounds a lot like a CNC copying attachment.


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Re: [Emc-users] half-assed cnc

2015-02-11 Thread Gregg Eshelman 
On 2/11/2015 7:09 AM, kqt4a...@gmail.com wrote:

> I have looked at ELS. What I am thinking is only a stepper on the cross
> feed.

Ah, so the computer controls the in-feed, synchronized with the lathe's 
mechanical feed, relying on the machinist to stop it.


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Re: [Emc-users] half-assed cnc

2015-02-11 Thread kqt4at5v 
On Wed, 11 Feb 2015, Gregg Eshelman wrote:

> On 2/10/2015 3:48 PM, kqt4a...@gmail.com wrote:
>> Has anyone tried something like an encoder on the lead screw of a lathe, a
>> stepper on the cross feed, and LinuxCNC to synchronize them. Could be used
>> for tapers, curves, etc.
>
> It's called Electronic Lead Screw. http://autoartisans.com/ELS/ It
> drives one stepper on the lead screw and uses a single point rotation
> sensor on the spindle.
>
> It does have the ability to connect an external stepper driver to run a
> motor on the cross slide to do tapers and other non-linear cuts.
>
> The main point of this setup is to use instead of a quick change gearbox
> for threading and power feeds, thus it doesn't need a powered cross
> slide to do threads and straight cuts.
>

I have looked at ELS. What I am thinking is only a stepper on the cross 
feed.

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Re: [Emc-users] half-assed cnc

2015-02-11 Thread Gregg Eshelman 
On 2/10/2015 3:48 PM, kqt4a...@gmail.com wrote:
> Has anyone tried something like an encoder on the lead screw of a lathe, a
> stepper on the cross feed, and LinuxCNC to synchronize them. Could be used
> for tapers, curves, etc.

It's called Electronic Lead Screw. http://autoartisans.com/ELS/ It 
drives one stepper on the lead screw and uses a single point rotation 
sensor on the spindle.

It does have the ability to connect an external stepper driver to run a 
motor on the cross slide to do tapers and other non-linear cuts.

The main point of this setup is to use instead of a quick change gearbox 
for threading and power feeds, thus it doesn't need a powered cross 
slide to do threads and straight cuts.

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[Emc-users] half-assed cnc

2015-02-10 Thread kqt4at5v 
Has anyone tried something like an encoder on the lead screw of a lathe, a 
stepper on the cross feed, and LinuxCNC to synchronize them. Could be used 
for tapers, curves, etc.



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