Re: [Emc-users] hands-on EDM experience (off topic)

2016-04-23 Thread Gene Heskett 
On Saturday 23 April 2016 09:01:43 Nicklas Karlsson wrote:

> > > Thomas Powderly  wrote:
> > > > ...
> > > > in real work the tool is already at the discharge distance when
> > > > the initiation voltage is turned on
> > > > so the initiation still occurs, followed by the discharge
> > >
> > > I was thinking about this for the ionization voltage. Usually tool
> > > is already at the discharge distance but in case it is to far away
> > > ionization just a little bit above limit would prevent discharge
> > > from happen to far away.
> > >
> > > > ...
> > > > .75 amps never bothered me, that measure is of the supplied
> > > > current, ( the current that would be delivered in a dead short)
> > > >   which is much more than delivered current
> > >
> > > It is the current delivered if I happen to touch tool that bother
> > > me, to high current and I wont be there to machine another day.
> > > There is a blue-green-yellow-red graph a bit down to the right on
> > > this page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_shock and I
> > > prefer to stay to the left of the yellow area.
> > >
> > > > tomp
> > >
> > > 10mA seems to be enough for ionization although I will try higher
> > > later to check if it make a difference. Sparc distinguishing seems
> > > to work at if short circuited there is no current. I however have
> > > some problem to keep the process running manually.
> >
> > I should remind everyone that the lethal electric shock range is
> > between 20 micro-amps, and 20 milli-amps directly thru the heart
> > muscle.  In this range fibrillation takes place and that is the
> > killer because it continues after the shock has been removed.  Above
> > 20 ma, the heart will freeze, and if the current is removed before
> > you expire, it generally will start right back up when the current
> > is removed.  You may have some 2nd degree burns but they will heal.
> >
> > The thing to watch out for as an aftereffect is the shingles as the
> > body's immune system will take a huge hit while repairing other
> > damages and may not be able to keep the chickenpox viri under
> > control.
> >
> > BTDT. Worst continuous, debilitating pain I have ever experienced,
> > for about 2 months. I had no assistant at the time and finally at
> > about 2 weeks, had to get up and go to work and take care of the tv
> > stations technical problems & broken equipment. I wasn't pleasant to
> > be around as I had an extremely low tolerance for the idiocy the
> > News Dept can perpetrate on equipment already, and it didn't get any
> > better, but I did catch up eventually.
> >
> > I would not wish the shingles on anyone, although I might make an
> > exception for that pompous little twerp that runs North Korea. He
> > will start the next war with his atomics.
>
> So what is he supposed to do? Scrap the only weapon which could cause
> any significant damage on enemy and wait for the bombing and the
> following invasion?

He should quit the sabre rattling and use his starving but industrious 
people to develop his GDP and compete on the world market like SK does.  
Then he wouldn't have to worry about the bombs and invasions. He would 
have friendly relations with his neighbors.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] hands-on EDM experience (off topic)

2016-04-23 Thread Nicklas Karlsson 
> > Thomas Powderly  wrote:
> > > ...
> > > in real work the tool is already at the discharge distance when the
> > > initiation voltage is turned on
> > > so the initiation still occurs, followed by the discharge
> >
> > I was thinking about this for the ionization voltage. Usually tool is
> > already at the discharge distance but in case it is to far away
> > ionization just a little bit above limit would prevent discharge from
> > happen to far away.
> >
> > > ...
> > > .75 amps never bothered me, that measure is of the supplied current,
> > > ( the current that would be delivered in a dead short)
> > >   which is much more than delivered current
> >
> > It is the current delivered if I happen to touch tool that bother me,
> > to high current and I wont be there to machine another day. There is a
> > blue-green-yellow-red graph a bit down to the right on this page
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_shock and I prefer to stay to
> > the left of the yellow area.
> >
> > > tomp
> >
> > 10mA seems to be enough for ionization although I will try higher
> > later to check if it make a difference. Sparc distinguishing seems to
> > work at if short circuited there is no current. I however have some
> > problem to keep the process running manually.
> 
> I should remind everyone that the lethal electric shock range is between 
> 20 micro-amps, and 20 milli-amps directly thru the heart muscle.  In 
> this range fibrillation takes place and that is the killer because it 
> continues after the shock has been removed.  Above 20 ma, the heart will 
> freeze, and if the current is removed before you expire, it generally 
> will start right back up when the current is removed.  You may have some 
> 2nd degree burns but they will heal.
> 
> The thing to watch out for as an aftereffect is the shingles as the 
> body's immune system will take a huge hit while repairing other damages 
> and may not be able to keep the chickenpox viri under control.
> 
> BTDT. Worst continuous, debilitating pain I have ever experienced, for 
> about 2 months. I had no assistant at the time and finally at about 2 
> weeks, had to get up and go to work and take care of the tv stations 
> technical problems & broken equipment. I wasn't pleasant to be around as 
> I had an extremely low tolerance for the idiocy the News Dept can 
> perpetrate on equipment already, and it didn't get any better, but I did 
> catch up eventually.
> 
> I would not wish the shingles on anyone, although I might make an 
> exception for that pompous little twerp that runs North Korea. He will 
> start the next war with his atomics.

So what is he supposed to do? Scrap the only weapon which could cause any 
significant damage on enemy and wait for the bombing and the following invasion?

--
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Applications Manager provides deep performance insights into multiple tiers of
your business applications. It resolves application problems quickly and
reduces your MTTR. Get your free trial!
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Re: [Emc-users] hands-on EDM experience

2016-04-23 Thread Gene Heskett 
On Saturday 23 April 2016 02:17:58 Nicklas Karlsson wrote:

> On Sat, 23 Apr 2016 10:32:09 +0800
>
> Thomas Powderly  wrote:
> > ...
> > in real work the tool is already at the discharge distance when the
> > initiation voltage is turned on
> > so the initiation still occurs, followed by the discharge
>
> I was thinking about this for the ionization voltage. Usually tool is
> already at the discharge distance but in case it is to far away
> ionization just a little bit above limit would prevent discharge from
> happen to far away.
>
> > ...
> > .75 amps never bothered me, that measure is of the supplied current,
> > ( the current that would be delivered in a dead short)
> >   which is much more than delivered current
>
> It is the current delivered if I happen to touch tool that bother me,
> to high current and I wont be there to machine another day. There is a
> blue-green-yellow-red graph a bit down to the right on this page
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_shock and I prefer to stay to
> the left of the yellow area.
>
> > tomp
>
> 10mA seems to be enough for ionization although I will try higher
> later to check if it make a difference. Sparc distinguishing seems to
> work at if short circuited there is no current. I however have some
> problem to keep the process running manually.

I should remind everyone that the lethal electric shock range is between 
20 micro-amps, and 20 milli-amps directly thru the heart muscle.  In 
this range fibrillation takes place and that is the killer because it 
continues after the shock has been removed.  Above 20 ma, the heart will 
freeze, and if the current is removed before you expire, it generally 
will start right back up when the current is removed.  You may have some 
2nd degree burns but they will heal.

The thing to watch out for as an aftereffect is the shingles as the 
body's immune system will take a huge hit while repairing other damages 
and may not be able to keep the chickenpox viri under control.

BTDT. Worst continuous, debilitating pain I have ever experienced, for 
about 2 months. I had no assistant at the time and finally at about 2 
weeks, had to get up and go to work and take care of the tv stations 
technical problems & broken equipment. I wasn't pleasant to be around as 
I had an extremely low tolerance for the idiocy the News Dept can 
perpetrate on equipment already, and it didn't get any better, but I did 
catch up eventually.

I would not wish the shingles on anyone, although I might make an 
exception for that pompous little twerp that runs North Korea. He will 
start the next war with his atomics.

> Regards Nicklas Karlsson
>
> > On 04/22/16 22:29, Nicklas Karlsson wrote:
> > > .75 amps is very dangerous as soon as voltage is high enough. Low
> > > current and it should not be dangerous even for rather high
> > > voltage.
> > >
> > > Preferably I want to stay at low current at least until prototype
> > > leave desktop.
> > >
> > > Since dielectric breakdown strength only has volts and distance I
> > > guess volt should be adjusted so that ionization is not started at
> > > to long distance which would create a big crater.
> > >
> > > I however want to keep current low to stay safe but does the
> > > current change how large a channel is created or will it grow
> > > large enough anyway as soon as the real current start?
> > >
> > >
> > > Regards Nicklas Karlsson
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thu, 21 Apr 2016 22:03:32 +0800
> > >
> > > Thomas Powderly  wrote:
> > >> initiation ONLY depends on voltage
> > >> i use .75 amps and its overkill
> > >> but it was easy to make the circuit
> > >> the equation for dielectric breakdown strength only has volts and
> > >> distance but
> > >> higher voltage makes ionization easier
> > >> typical value are 100 to 300VDC
> > >> tho for some paarungs ( stahl bis stahl, copper to crystal ... )
> > >> upwards of 1000V= are used
> > >> hth tomp
> > >>
> > >> On 04/21/16 20:13, Nicklas Karlsson wrote:
> > >>> I certainly discovered the need to back off.
> > >>>
> > >>> As is now I use only 10mA for ionization and 10A for cuts. I
> > >>> want to keep ionization current down for safety reason, do you
> > >>> know if it is harder to get process running at low current?
> > >>>
> > >>> Regards Nicklas Karlsson
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> On Thu, 17 Mar 2016 15:15:10 + (UTC)
> > >>>
> > >>> Pete_Gruendeman  wrote:
> >  Hi Nicklas:
> >    Did you set up and run the simple RC type EDM?  It's a
> >  pretty simple proposition, using a filtered DC power supply, a
> >  capacitor in parallel with the gap and the gap itself.  An
> >  electrolytic capacitor would work.  A motor-run capacitor, of
> >  50-100 micro Farads would work even better.  Hands-on
> >  experience will answer many of you questions, especially in
> >  regard to the stability of the process.  No matter how stable
> >  your process is,

Re: [Emc-users] hands-on EDM experience

2016-04-23 Thread Nicklas Karlsson 
On Sat, 23 Apr 2016 10:32:09 +0800
Thomas Powderly  wrote:

> ...
> in real work the tool is already at the discharge distance when the 
> initiation voltage is turned on
> so the initiation still occurs, followed by the discharge

I was thinking about this for the ionization voltage. Usually tool is already 
at the discharge distance but in case it is to far away ionization just a 
little bit above limit would prevent discharge from happen to far away.

> ...
> .75 amps never bothered me, that measure is of the supplied current,
> ( the current that would be delivered in a dead short)
>   which is much more than delivered current

It is the current delivered if I happen to touch tool that bother me, to high 
current and I wont be there to machine another day. There is a 
blue-green-yellow-red graph a bit down to the right on this page 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_shock and I prefer to stay to the left 
of the yellow area.

> tomp

10mA seems to be enough for ionization although I will try higher later to 
check if it make a difference. Sparc distinguishing seems to work at if short 
circuited there is no current. I however have some problem to keep the process 
running manually.


Regards Nicklas Karlsson



> On 04/22/16 22:29, Nicklas Karlsson wrote:
> > .75 amps is very dangerous as soon as voltage is high enough. Low current 
> > and it should not be dangerous even for rather high voltage.
> >
> > Preferably I want to stay at low current at least until prototype leave 
> > desktop.
> >
> > Since dielectric breakdown strength only has volts and distance I guess 
> > volt should be adjusted so that ionization is not started at to long 
> > distance which would create a big crater.
> >
> > I however want to keep current low to stay safe but does the current change 
> > how large a channel is created or will it grow large enough anyway as soon 
> > as the real current start?
> >
> >
> > Regards Nicklas Karlsson
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, 21 Apr 2016 22:03:32 +0800
> > Thomas Powderly  wrote:
> >
> >> initiation ONLY depends on voltage
> >> i use .75 amps and its overkill
> >> but it was easy to make the circuit
> >> the equation for dielectric breakdown strength only has volts and distance
> >> but
> >> higher voltage makes ionization easier
> >> typical value are 100 to 300VDC
> >> tho for some paarungs ( stahl bis stahl, copper to crystal ... ) upwards
> >> of 1000V= are used
> >> hth tomp
> >>
> >> On 04/21/16 20:13, Nicklas Karlsson wrote:
> >>> I certainly discovered the need to back off.
> >>>
> >>> As is now I use only 10mA for ionization and 10A for cuts. I want to keep 
> >>> ionization current down for safety reason, do you know if it is harder to 
> >>> get process running at low current?
> >>>
> >>> Regards Nicklas Karlsson
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Thu, 17 Mar 2016 15:15:10 + (UTC)
> >>> Pete_Gruendeman  wrote:
> >>>
>  Hi Nicklas:
>    Did you set up and run the simple RC type EDM?  It's a pretty 
>  simple proposition, using a filtered DC power supply, a capacitor in 
>  parallel with the gap and the gap itself.  An electrolytic capacitor 
>  would work.  A motor-run capacitor, of 50-100 micro Farads would work 
>  even better.  Hands-on experience will answer many of you questions, 
>  especially in regard to the stability of the process.  No matter how 
>  stable your process is, backing up is part of this artform.
> 
>  Pete
>  
>  On Thu, 3/10/16, Nicklas Karlsson  wrote:
> 
> Subject: Re: hands-on EDM experience
> To: "Pete_Gruendeman" 
> Date: Thursday, March 10, 2016, 8:49 AM
> 
> > Hi Nicklas:
> > I wrote and sent this last
> night but it seems to have bounced instead of reaching
> you.  I want you to get some hands on experience with EDM,
> even if it's a simple RC type EDM that you clamp onto a
> milling machine and flush with a turkey baster you borrow
> from the kitchen.  Even though I had run commercial EDMs,
> it was eye opening to run the process manually.  The whole
> process can be complicated but it doesn't have to be.
> Read below.
> >
> > Hi
> tomp and Nicklas:
> >
>    Careful tomp as much of what you wrote is some
> pretty technical stuff.  It might be over Nicklas' head
> since he is new to EDM.  I barely recognize some of this
> but do recall that Agie offered auto-overcut compensation.
> I always turned that off as much of my work was something
> like a horizontally oriented cylinder and I typically
> orbited about the X-axis.
> >
> > Nicklas:  Have you done
> anything with EDM yet?, even with a simple resistive
>

Re: [Emc-users] hands-on EDM experience

2016-04-22 Thread Thomas Powderly 
Hi Nicklas
the distance of the initiation is not the distance of the discharge
that is:
the distance of the initition is Less Than Or Equal to a value
the distance of the discharge is not dependant on the distance of the 
intiation,
and is usally much closer.
in real work the tool is already at the discharge distance when the 
initiation voltage is turned on
so the initiation still occurs, followed by the discharge
the equations for the distance are beyond me because it is not simply 
ohms law
as the discharge is a plasma and the gap is not a resistor, but a 'reactor'

and
.75 amps never bothered me, that measure is of the supplied current,
( the current that would be delivered in a dead short)
  which is much more than delivered current
( the gap reactance again, so i have no formula,
tho there are math models available on the interweb)

tomp

On 04/22/16 22:29, Nicklas Karlsson wrote:
> .75 amps is very dangerous as soon as voltage is high enough. Low current and 
> it should not be dangerous even for rather high voltage.
>
> Preferably I want to stay at low current at least until prototype leave 
> desktop.
>
> Since dielectric breakdown strength only has volts and distance I guess volt 
> should be adjusted so that ionization is not started at to long distance 
> which would create a big crater.
>
> I however want to keep current low to stay safe but does the current change 
> how large a channel is created or will it grow large enough anyway as soon as 
> the real current start?
>
>
> Regards Nicklas Karlsson
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, 21 Apr 2016 22:03:32 +0800
> Thomas Powderly  wrote:
>
>> initiation ONLY depends on voltage
>> i use .75 amps and its overkill
>> but it was easy to make the circuit
>> the equation for dielectric breakdown strength only has volts and distance
>> but
>> higher voltage makes ionization easier
>> typical value are 100 to 300VDC
>> tho for some paarungs ( stahl bis stahl, copper to crystal ... ) upwards
>> of 1000V= are used
>> hth tomp
>>
>> On 04/21/16 20:13, Nicklas Karlsson wrote:
>>> I certainly discovered the need to back off.
>>>
>>> As is now I use only 10mA for ionization and 10A for cuts. I want to keep 
>>> ionization current down for safety reason, do you know if it is harder to 
>>> get process running at low current?
>>>
>>> Regards Nicklas Karlsson
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, 17 Mar 2016 15:15:10 + (UTC)
>>> Pete_Gruendeman  wrote:
>>>
 Hi Nicklas:
   Did you set up and run the simple RC type EDM?  It's a pretty simple 
 proposition, using a filtered DC power supply, a capacitor in parallel 
 with the gap and the gap itself.  An electrolytic capacitor would work.  A 
 motor-run capacitor, of 50-100 micro Farads would work even better.  
 Hands-on experience will answer many of you questions, especially in 
 regard to the stability of the process.  No matter how stable your process 
 is, backing up is part of this artform.

 Pete
 
 On Thu, 3/10/16, Nicklas Karlsson  wrote:

Subject: Re: hands-on EDM experience
To: "Pete_Gruendeman" 
Date: Thursday, March 10, 2016, 8:49 AM

> Hi Nicklas:
> I wrote and sent this last
night but it seems to have bounced instead of reaching
you.  I want you to get some hands on experience with EDM,
even if it's a simple RC type EDM that you clamp onto a
milling machine and flush with a turkey baster you borrow
from the kitchen.  Even though I had run commercial EDMs,
it was eye opening to run the process manually.  The whole
process can be complicated but it doesn't have to be.
Read below.
>
> Hi
tomp and Nicklas:
>
   Careful tomp as much of what you wrote is some
pretty technical stuff.  It might be over Nicklas' head
since he is new to EDM.  I barely recognize some of this
but do recall that Agie offered auto-overcut compensation.
I always turned that off as much of my work was something
like a horizontally oriented cylinder and I typically
orbited about the X-axis.
>
> Nicklas:  Have you done
anything with EDM yet?, even with a simple resistive
capacitive spark eroder?, perhaps set up on a milling
machine or other platform?  And I don't mean CNC.  I
mean with control being provided by your ears and your
hands.  And flushing with a baster from the kitchen.  Much
of the discussion here will make more sense if you have even
a little hands-on experience with EDM.  Being a beginner is
fine.  I really want you to know instinctively what a
stable burn sounds like, and what gap contamination looks
like, sounds like and how quickly you need to do something

Re: [Emc-users] hands-on EDM experience

2016-04-22 Thread Nicklas Karlsson 
.75 amps is very dangerous as soon as voltage is high enough. Low current and 
it should not be dangerous even for rather high voltage.

Preferably I want to stay at low current at least until prototype leave desktop.

Since dielectric breakdown strength only has volts and distance I guess volt 
should be adjusted so that ionization is not started at to long distance which 
would create a big crater.

I however want to keep current low to stay safe but does the current change how 
large a channel is created or will it grow large enough anyway as soon as the 
real current start?


Regards Nicklas Karlsson




On Thu, 21 Apr 2016 22:03:32 +0800
Thomas Powderly  wrote:

> initiation ONLY depends on voltage
> i use .75 amps and its overkill
> but it was easy to make the circuit
> the equation for dielectric breakdown strength only has volts and distance
> but
> higher voltage makes ionization easier
> typical value are 100 to 300VDC
> tho for some paarungs ( stahl bis stahl, copper to crystal ... ) upwards 
> of 1000V= are used
> hth tomp
> 
> On 04/21/16 20:13, Nicklas Karlsson wrote:
> > I certainly discovered the need to back off.
> >
> > As is now I use only 10mA for ionization and 10A for cuts. I want to keep 
> > ionization current down for safety reason, do you know if it is harder to 
> > get process running at low current?
> >
> > Regards Nicklas Karlsson
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, 17 Mar 2016 15:15:10 + (UTC)
> > Pete_Gruendeman  wrote:
> >
> >> Hi Nicklas:
> >>  Did you set up and run the simple RC type EDM?  It's a pretty simple 
> >> proposition, using a filtered DC power supply, a capacitor in parallel 
> >> with the gap and the gap itself.  An electrolytic capacitor would work.  A 
> >> motor-run capacitor, of 50-100 micro Farads would work even better.  
> >> Hands-on experience will answer many of you questions, especially in 
> >> regard to the stability of the process.  No matter how stable your process 
> >> is, backing up is part of this artform.
> >>
> >> Pete
> >> 
> >> On Thu, 3/10/16, Nicklas Karlsson  wrote:
> >>
> >>   Subject: Re: hands-on EDM experience
> >>   To: "Pete_Gruendeman" 
> >>   Date: Thursday, March 10, 2016, 8:49 AM
> >>   
> >>   > Hi Nicklas:
> >>   > I wrote and sent this last
> >>   night but it seems to have bounced instead of reaching
> >>   you.  I want you to get some hands on experience with EDM,
> >>   even if it's a simple RC type EDM that you clamp onto a
> >>   milling machine and flush with a turkey baster you borrow
> >>   from the kitchen.  Even though I had run commercial EDMs,
> >>   it was eye opening to run the process manually.  The whole
> >>   process can be complicated but it doesn't have to be.
> >>   Read below.
> >>   >
> >>   > Hi
> >>   tomp and Nicklas:
> >>   >
> >>  Careful tomp as much of what you wrote is some
> >>   pretty technical stuff.  It might be over Nicklas' head
> >>   since he is new to EDM.  I barely recognize some of this
> >>   but do recall that Agie offered auto-overcut compensation.
> >>   I always turned that off as much of my work was something
> >>   like a horizontally oriented cylinder and I typically
> >>   orbited about the X-axis.
> >>   >
> >>   > Nicklas:  Have you done
> >>   anything with EDM yet?, even with a simple resistive
> >>   capacitive spark eroder?, perhaps set up on a milling
> >>   machine or other platform?  And I don't mean CNC.  I
> >>   mean with control being provided by your ears and your
> >>   hands.  And flushing with a baster from the kitchen.  Much
> >>   of the discussion here will make more sense if you have even
> >>   a little hands-on experience with EDM.  Being a beginner is
> >>   fine.  I really want you to know instinctively what a
> >>   stable burn sounds like, and what gap contamination looks
> >>   like, sounds like and how quickly you need to do something
> >>   about it when the burn starts to become unstable.  These
> >>   various hands-on skills will be more confusing to you when
> >>   you try to learn it with the complexities of CNC added to
> >>   the mix.  Let's get your hands oily and a little EDM
> >>   crackling sound in your ears as soon as possible.  It takes
> >>   very little equipment to replicate Lazarenkos'
> >>   experiments and that's all I want you to do to get
> >>   started.  You can get started with a copper or brass
> >>   electrode.  Let me know how I can help you get started.
> >>   >
> >>   > Pete
> >>   
> >>   Well I am more interested in
> >>   the CNC part and an EDM is what I could buy cheap. My first
> >>   sparcs will be coffecup EDM with food oil, it is still a few
> >>   days away since I have to spend a few days on others.
> >>   
> >>   
> >>   Nicklas
> >>   Karlsson
> > --
> > Find and fix application

Re: [Emc-users] hands-on EDM experience

2016-04-21 Thread Thomas Powderly 
initiation ONLY depends on voltage
i use .75 amps and its overkill
but it was easy to make the circuit
the equation for dielectric breakdown strength only has volts and distance
but
higher voltage makes ionization easier
typical value are 100 to 300VDC
tho for some paarungs ( stahl bis stahl, copper to crystal ... ) upwards 
of 1000V= are used
hth tomp

On 04/21/16 20:13, Nicklas Karlsson wrote:
> I certainly discovered the need to back off.
>
> As is now I use only 10mA for ionization and 10A for cuts. I want to keep 
> ionization current down for safety reason, do you know if it is harder to get 
> process running at low current?
>
> Regards Nicklas Karlsson
>
>
>
> On Thu, 17 Mar 2016 15:15:10 + (UTC)
> Pete_Gruendeman  wrote:
>
>> Hi Nicklas:
>>  Did you set up and run the simple RC type EDM?  It's a pretty simple 
>> proposition, using a filtered DC power supply, a capacitor in parallel with 
>> the gap and the gap itself.  An electrolytic capacitor would work.  A 
>> motor-run capacitor, of 50-100 micro Farads would work even better.  
>> Hands-on experience will answer many of you questions, especially in regard 
>> to the stability of the process.  No matter how stable your process is, 
>> backing up is part of this artform.
>>
>> Pete
>> 
>> On Thu, 3/10/16, Nicklas Karlsson  wrote:
>>
>>   Subject: Re: hands-on EDM experience
>>   To: "Pete_Gruendeman" 
>>   Date: Thursday, March 10, 2016, 8:49 AM
>>   
>>   > Hi Nicklas:
>>   > I wrote and sent this last
>>   night but it seems to have bounced instead of reaching
>>   you.  I want you to get some hands on experience with EDM,
>>   even if it's a simple RC type EDM that you clamp onto a
>>   milling machine and flush with a turkey baster you borrow
>>   from the kitchen.  Even though I had run commercial EDMs,
>>   it was eye opening to run the process manually.  The whole
>>   process can be complicated but it doesn't have to be.
>>   Read below.
>>   >
>>   > Hi
>>   tomp and Nicklas:
>>   >
>>  Careful tomp as much of what you wrote is some
>>   pretty technical stuff.  It might be over Nicklas' head
>>   since he is new to EDM.  I barely recognize some of this
>>   but do recall that Agie offered auto-overcut compensation.
>>   I always turned that off as much of my work was something
>>   like a horizontally oriented cylinder and I typically
>>   orbited about the X-axis.
>>   >
>>   > Nicklas:  Have you done
>>   anything with EDM yet?, even with a simple resistive
>>   capacitive spark eroder?, perhaps set up on a milling
>>   machine or other platform?  And I don't mean CNC.  I
>>   mean with control being provided by your ears and your
>>   hands.  And flushing with a baster from the kitchen.  Much
>>   of the discussion here will make more sense if you have even
>>   a little hands-on experience with EDM.  Being a beginner is
>>   fine.  I really want you to know instinctively what a
>>   stable burn sounds like, and what gap contamination looks
>>   like, sounds like and how quickly you need to do something
>>   about it when the burn starts to become unstable.  These
>>   various hands-on skills will be more confusing to you when
>>   you try to learn it with the complexities of CNC added to
>>   the mix.  Let's get your hands oily and a little EDM
>>   crackling sound in your ears as soon as possible.  It takes
>>   very little equipment to replicate Lazarenkos'
>>   experiments and that's all I want you to do to get
>>   started.  You can get started with a copper or brass
>>   electrode.  Let me know how I can help you get started.
>>   >
>>   > Pete
>>   
>>   Well I am more interested in
>>   the CNC part and an EDM is what I could buy cheap. My first
>>   sparcs will be coffecup EDM with food oil, it is still a few
>>   days away since I have to spend a few days on others.
>>   
>>   
>>   Nicklas
>>   Karlsson
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Re: [Emc-users] hands-on EDM experience

2016-04-21 Thread Nicklas Karlsson 
I certainly discovered the need to back off.

As is now I use only 10mA for ionization and 10A for cuts. I want to keep 
ionization current down for safety reason, do you know if it is harder to get 
process running at low current?

Regards Nicklas Karlsson



On Thu, 17 Mar 2016 15:15:10 + (UTC)
Pete_Gruendeman  wrote:

> Hi Nicklas:
> Did you set up and run the simple RC type EDM?  It's a pretty simple 
> proposition, using a filtered DC power supply, a capacitor in parallel with 
> the gap and the gap itself.  An electrolytic capacitor would work.  A 
> motor-run capacitor, of 50-100 micro Farads would work even better.  Hands-on 
> experience will answer many of you questions, especially in regard to the 
> stability of the process.  No matter how stable your process is, backing up 
> is part of this artform.
> 
> Pete 
> 
> On Thu, 3/10/16, Nicklas Karlsson  wrote:
> 
>  Subject: Re: hands-on EDM experience
>  To: "Pete_Gruendeman" 
>  Date: Thursday, March 10, 2016, 8:49 AM
>  
>  > Hi Nicklas:
>  >     I wrote and sent this last
>  night but it seems to have bounced instead of reaching
>  you.  I want you to get some hands on experience with EDM,
>  even if it's a simple RC type EDM that you clamp onto a
>  milling machine and flush with a turkey baster you borrow
>  from the kitchen.  Even though I had run commercial EDMs,
>  it was eye opening to run the process manually.  The whole
>  process can be complicated but it doesn't have to be. 
>  Read below.
>  > 
>  > Hi
>  tomp and Nicklas:
>  > 
>     Careful tomp as much of what you wrote is some
>  pretty technical stuff.  It might be over Nicklas' head
>  since he is new to EDM.  I barely recognize some of this
>  but do recall that Agie offered auto-overcut compensation. 
>  I always turned that off as much of my work was something
>  like a horizontally oriented cylinder and I typically
>  orbited about the X-axis. 
>  > 
>  >     Nicklas:  Have you done
>  anything with EDM yet?, even with a simple resistive
>  capacitive spark eroder?, perhaps set up on a milling
>  machine or other platform?  And I don't mean CNC.  I
>  mean with control being provided by your ears and your
>  hands.  And flushing with a baster from the kitchen.  Much
>  of the discussion here will make more sense if you have even
>  a little hands-on experience with EDM.  Being a beginner is
>  fine.  I really want you to know instinctively what a
>  stable burn sounds like, and what gap contamination looks
>  like, sounds like and how quickly you need to do something
>  about it when the burn starts to become unstable.  These
>  various hands-on skills will be more confusing to you when
>  you try to learn it with the complexities of CNC added to
>  the mix.  Let's get your hands oily and a little EDM
>  crackling sound in your ears as soon as possible.  It takes
>  very little equipment to replicate Lazarenkos'
>  experiments and that's all I want you to do to get
>  started.  You can get started with a copper or brass
>  electrode.  Let me know how I can help you get started.
>  > 
>  > Pete 
>  
>  Well I am more interested in
>  the CNC part and an EDM is what I could buy cheap. My first
>  sparcs will be coffecup EDM with food oil, it is still a few
>  days away since I have to spend a few days on others.
>  
>  
>  Nicklas
>  Karlsson

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your business applications. It resolves application problems quickly and
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Re: [Emc-users] hands-on EDM experience

2016-04-21 Thread Nicklas Karlsson 
Did some other things in between but today I could try my own EDM generator. 
Supringsingly enough the first sparcs was between in electrodes instead of on 
circuit which is most common at the first try.

Have not measured all signals yet but sparcs on correct spot is certainly a 
good start.

Regards Nicklas Karlsson



On Thu, 17 Mar 2016 15:15:10 + (UTC)
Pete_Gruendeman  wrote:

> Hi Nicklas:
> Did you set up and run the simple RC type EDM?  It's a pretty simple 
> proposition, using a filtered DC power supply, a capacitor in parallel with 
> the gap and the gap itself.  An electrolytic capacitor would work.  A 
> motor-run capacitor, of 50-100 micro Farads would work even better.  Hands-on 
> experience will answer many of you questions, especially in regard to the 
> stability of the process.  No matter how stable your process is, backing up 
> is part of this artform.
> 
> Pete 
> 
> On Thu, 3/10/16, Nicklas Karlsson  wrote:
> 
>  Subject: Re: hands-on EDM experience
>  To: "Pete_Gruendeman" 
>  Date: Thursday, March 10, 2016, 8:49 AM
>  
>  > Hi Nicklas:
>  >     I wrote and sent this last
>  night but it seems to have bounced instead of reaching
>  you.  I want you to get some hands on experience with EDM,
>  even if it's a simple RC type EDM that you clamp onto a
>  milling machine and flush with a turkey baster you borrow
>  from the kitchen.  Even though I had run commercial EDMs,
>  it was eye opening to run the process manually.  The whole
>  process can be complicated but it doesn't have to be. 
>  Read below.
>  > 
>  > Hi
>  tomp and Nicklas:
>  > 
>     Careful tomp as much of what you wrote is some
>  pretty technical stuff.  It might be over Nicklas' head
>  since he is new to EDM.  I barely recognize some of this
>  but do recall that Agie offered auto-overcut compensation. 
>  I always turned that off as much of my work was something
>  like a horizontally oriented cylinder and I typically
>  orbited about the X-axis. 
>  > 
>  >     Nicklas:  Have you done
>  anything with EDM yet?, even with a simple resistive
>  capacitive spark eroder?, perhaps set up on a milling
>  machine or other platform?  And I don't mean CNC.  I
>  mean with control being provided by your ears and your
>  hands.  And flushing with a baster from the kitchen.  Much
>  of the discussion here will make more sense if you have even
>  a little hands-on experience with EDM.  Being a beginner is
>  fine.  I really want you to know instinctively what a
>  stable burn sounds like, and what gap contamination looks
>  like, sounds like and how quickly you need to do something
>  about it when the burn starts to become unstable.  These
>  various hands-on skills will be more confusing to you when
>  you try to learn it with the complexities of CNC added to
>  the mix.  Let's get your hands oily and a little EDM
>  crackling sound in your ears as soon as possible.  It takes
>  very little equipment to replicate Lazarenkos'
>  experiments and that's all I want you to do to get
>  started.  You can get started with a copper or brass
>  electrode.  Let me know how I can help you get started.
>  > 
>  > Pete 
>  
>  Well I am more interested in
>  the CNC part and an EDM is what I could buy cheap. My first
>  sparcs will be coffecup EDM with food oil, it is still a few
>  days away since I have to spend a few days on others.
>  
>  
>  Nicklas
>  Karlsson

--
Find and fix application performance issues faster with Applications Manager
Applications Manager provides deep performance insights into multiple tiers of
your business applications. It resolves application problems quickly and
reduces your MTTR. Get your free trial!
https://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/302982198;130105516;z
___
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