Re: [Emc-users] buildbot apt-key?

[gene heskett]

On Thursday, 24 March 2022 00:54:57 EDT Phill Carter wrote:
> > On 24 Mar 2022, at 2:19 pm, gene heskett 
> > wrote:
> > 
> > On Wednesday, 23 March 2022 21:48:19 EDT Phill Carter wrote:
> >>> On 24 Mar 2022, at 12:39 pm, gene heskett 
> >>> wrote:>
> >>> 
> >>> On Monday, 21 March 2022 21:04:22 EDT andy pugh wrote:
>  On Mon, 21 Mar 2022 at 19:27, gene heskett 
> >>> 
> >>> wrote:
> > How do I get and install the buildbot's apt-key EF1B07FEE0EE663E
> > ?
>  
>  Do the instructions on the buildbot page not work?
>  http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org
> >>> 
> >>> And I got a key for the buildbot, BUT:
> >>> 
> >>> pi@rpi4:~ $ sudo apt-key adv --keyserver hkp://keys.openpgp.org
> >>> --recv- key 3CB9FD148F374FEF
> >>> Executing: /tmp/apt-key-gpghome.sImcrB8zl2/gpg.1.sh --keyserver
> >>> hkp://
> >>> keys.openpgp.org --recv-key 3CB9FD148F374FEF
> >>> gpg: key 3CB9FD148F374FEF: new key but contains no user ID -
> >>> skipped
> >>> gpg: Total number processed: 1
> >>> gpg:   w/o user IDs: 1
> >>> 
> >>> Can this be fixed?
> >> 
> >> keyserver.ubuntu.com:80 
> >> > is
> >> mentioned as an alternative on the Buildbot page.
> > 
> > And that site says its not found, twice.  ??
> 
> That is possibly the link that my mail client adds automatically :(
> 
> The complete command would be:
> sudo apt-key adv --keyserver hkp://keyserver.ubuntu.com --recv-key
> EF1B07FEE0EE663E
Which reports this on the cli:
pi@rpi4:/etc $ sudo apt-key adv --keyserver hkp://keyserver.ubuntu.com --
recv-key EF1B07FEE0EE663E
Executing: /tmp/apt-key-gpghome.1F841F5J8A/gpg.1.sh --keyserver hkp://
keyserver.ubuntu.com --recv-key EF1B07FEE0EE663E
gpg: key EF1B07FEE0EE663E: public key "LinuxCNC Buildbot 
" imported
gpg: Total number processed: 1
gpg:   imported: 1

But that does not satisfy synaptic as a reload says:

Skipping acquire of configured file 'master-rtpreempt/binary-arm64/
Packages' as repository 'http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org buster InRelease' 
does not seem to provide it (sources.list entry misspelt?)GPG error: 
http://linuxcnc.org buster InRelease: The following signatures couldn't 
be verified because the public key is not available: NO_PUBKEY 
3CB9FD148F374FEFThe repository 'http://linuxcnc.org buster InRelease' is 
not signed.

What should be changed in my linuxcnc.list file?:
pi@rpi4:/etc/apt/sources.list.d $ cat linuxcnc.list
# deb http://linuxcnc.org/ buster base 
# deb-src http://linuxcnc.org/ stretch base 
# deb http://linuxcnc.org/ buster 2.7-uspace 
deb http://linuxcnc.org/ buster master-rtpreempt  
# deb-src http://linuxcnc.org/ stretch 2.7-uspace 
# deb http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/ buster master 
# deb-src http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/ stretch 2.7-rtpreempt 
deb http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/ buster master-rtpreempt 
# deb http://www.linuxcnc.org/dists/ buster armhf base 

Thank you Andy.

Cheers, Gene Heskett.
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis





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Re: [Emc-users] Because I can't seem to finish anything... Nebel lathe conversion.

[Stuart Stevenson]

The only thing I would add to Andy's comments about machining hard steel
with carbide is to get a green stone and remove the built up edge after
every pass. Heat is what kills the cutter.

On Mon, Mar 21, 2022 at 11:34 AM Leonardo Marsaglia 
wrote:

> >
> > I have machined a number of ballscrews. Typically I peel of the outer
> > hardened layer with CBN-tipped tools, but mainly because I have some.
> > It can be done with normal carbide, though you might need more than
> > one.
> > Very high surface speed and very light cuts is the way to go.
> >
> > https://youtu.be/SmuZXXP_hMY
>
>
> Nice Andy! I have some sumitomo CBN inserts I purchased from ebay a while
> back because they were really cheap but never used it because I'm always
> lacking the tool holder...
>
> El lun, 21 mar 2022 a las 12:54, andy pugh ()
> escribió:
>
> > On Mon, 21 Mar 2022 at 13:53, Leonardo Marsaglia 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Sam, have you had to soften the final portion of the ballscrew to
> machine
> > > that thread? I've never done it and the ones I'm mounting in the router
> > are
> > > fixed (rotating nut).
> >
> > I have machined a number of ballscrews. Typically I peel of the outer
> > hardened layer with CBN-tipped tools, but mainly because I have some.
> > It can be done with normal carbide, though you might need more than
> > one.
> > Very high surface speed and very light cuts is the way to go.
> >
> > https://youtu.be/SmuZXXP_hMY
> >
> > --
> > atp
> > "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> > designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> > lunatics."
> > — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
>
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>


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If you are not the addressee then my consent is not given for you to read
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[Emc-users] Thoughts / Recommendations on spindle drive and motor

[John Figie]

Now I am ready to figure out what to do for the spindle drive.

The project is a 1972 Clausig NC lathe. The original paper tape fed
controls are long gone. I actually have the owners manual. The original
lathe had a 5 HP motor and a variable speed transmission similar to
bridgeport heads and many machines of that era. But that variable speed
drive is no longer with the lathe. The next owner fitted a large PMDC motor
to the machine - which I still have. IT is a beast of a motor with
tachometer feedback. The nameplate has a continuous stall torque of 300
(in-lbs?), a peak amps rating of 320 amps, 4000 RPM and 217 VDC.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1O1217d-umZHpIvBtVZ4XCjMkOsplnwgu/view?usp=sharing
Information in the manual indicates that original max spindle speed was
likely 2000 RPM. THe spindle is geared by a timing belt that has a motor
pulley of 30 and a spindle pulley of 47. The next owner of the machine -
who I purchased the lathe from removed the DC motor and installed a 1750
RPM 5 HP 220V 3phase Baldor motor. The 5 HP baldor is currently mounted on
the machine.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1aBlcbBWQ48A-brels9UIhQqBcvd0fiXx/view?usp=sharing

Now what to do about the drive for the spindle?

1) Keep the 5HP motor and use a VFD to run the motor faster to get my 2000
spindle speed? 2000 * 47/30 = 3133 RPM. I don't have much experience with
induction motor drives. Is is feasible to run my motor at nearly double it
rated speed? Are these cheap single phase input VFDs any good?
ebay link


More Pics


So far I have made my own torque mode DC drives for the x and z and that
seems to be working OK. I am using mesa 7i80 for I/O. Next I need to start
putting all the pieces together.

The mechanics of the machine seem to be in excellent condition. Probably
because the machine has had little use even though it is old.

John Figie

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Re: [Emc-users] Thoughts / Recommendations on spindle drive and motor

[heritagespringerguy--- via Emc-users]

A VFD w/ anti-snoring features.

Love it!

> On Mar 24, 2022, at 12:16 PM, John Figie  wrote:
> 
> Now I am ready to figure out what to do for the spindle drive.
> 
> The project is a 1972 Clausig NC lathe. The original paper tape fed
> controls are long gone. I actually have the owners manual. The original
> lathe had a 5 HP motor and a variable speed transmission similar to
> bridgeport heads and many machines of that era. But that variable speed
> drive is no longer with the lathe. The next owner fitted a large PMDC motor
> to the machine - which I still have. IT is a beast of a motor with
> tachometer feedback. The nameplate has a continuous stall torque of 300
> (in-lbs?), a peak amps rating of 320 amps, 4000 RPM and 217 VDC.
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1O1217d-umZHpIvBtVZ4XCjMkOsplnwgu/view?usp=sharing
> Information in the manual indicates that original max spindle speed was
> likely 2000 RPM. THe spindle is geared by a timing belt that has a motor
> pulley of 30 and a spindle pulley of 47. The next owner of the machine -
> who I purchased the lathe from removed the DC motor and installed a 1750
> RPM 5 HP 220V 3phase Baldor motor. The 5 HP baldor is currently mounted on
> the machine.
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1aBlcbBWQ48A-brels9UIhQqBcvd0fiXx/view?usp=sharing
> 
> Now what to do about the drive for the spindle?
> 
> 1) Keep the 5HP motor and use a VFD to run the motor faster to get my 2000
> spindle speed? 2000 * 47/30 = 3133 RPM. I don't have much experience with
> induction motor drives. Is is feasible to run my motor at nearly double it
> rated speed? Are these cheap single phase input VFDs any good?
> ebay link
> 
> 
> More Pics
> 
> 
> So far I have made my own torque mode DC drives for the x and z and that
> seems to be working OK. I am using mesa 7i80 for I/O. Next I need to start
> putting all the pieces together.
> 
> The mechanics of the machine seem to be in excellent condition. Probably
> because the machine has had little use even though it is old.
> 
> John Figie
> 
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users



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Re: [Emc-users] Thoughts / Recommendations on spindle drive and motor

[Robin Szemeti via Emc-users]

More obviously, run the motor at its rated speed, change one of the pulleys
to give you your desired spindle speed.

On Thu, 24 Mar 2022 at 17:33, heritagespringerguy--- via Emc-users <
emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote:

> A VFD w/ anti-snoring features.
>
> Love it!
>
> > On Mar 24, 2022, at 12:16 PM, John Figie  wrote:
> >
> > Now I am ready to figure out what to do for the spindle drive.
> >
> > The project is a 1972 Clausig NC lathe. The original paper tape fed
> > controls are long gone. I actually have the owners manual. The original
> > lathe had a 5 HP motor and a variable speed transmission similar to
> > bridgeport heads and many machines of that era. But that variable speed
> > drive is no longer with the lathe. The next owner fitted a large PMDC
> motor
> > to the machine - which I still have. IT is a beast of a motor with
> > tachometer feedback. The nameplate has a continuous stall torque of 300
> > (in-lbs?), a peak amps rating of 320 amps, 4000 RPM and 217 VDC.
> >
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1O1217d-umZHpIvBtVZ4XCjMkOsplnwgu/view?usp=sharing
> > Information in the manual indicates that original max spindle speed was
> > likely 2000 RPM. THe spindle is geared by a timing belt that has a motor
> > pulley of 30 and a spindle pulley of 47. The next owner of the machine -
> > who I purchased the lathe from removed the DC motor and installed a 1750
> > RPM 5 HP 220V 3phase Baldor motor. The 5 HP baldor is currently mounted
> on
> > the machine.
> >
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1aBlcbBWQ48A-brels9UIhQqBcvd0fiXx/view?usp=sharing
> >
> > Now what to do about the drive for the spindle?
> >
> > 1) Keep the 5HP motor and use a VFD to run the motor faster to get my
> 2000
> > spindle speed? 2000 * 47/30 = 3133 RPM. I don't have much experience with
> > induction motor drives. Is is feasible to run my motor at nearly double
> it
> > rated speed? Are these cheap single phase input VFDs any good?
> > ebay link
> > <
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/224441224652?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D1110006%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D237808%26meid%3Dff3eea0653834c509c5a592b1ba40972%26pid%3D101195%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D183100064244%26itm%3D224441224652%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2047675%26algv%3DSimplAMLv9PairwiseWebMskuAspectsV202110NoVariantSeed&_trksid=p2047675.c101195.m1851&amdata=cksum%3A224441224652ff3eea0653834c509c5a592b1ba40972%7Cenc%3AAQAGAAACEOgL6rSsLbmX3BNmrTUtzjXFnK5T7FXeEWyt%252FMTCcEhYXj1eFLAyDkUF3cgxnfgzv4cbJBL17cObzrqgUBjPnSWoDV9H%252F97l1QpjsMVxHCPzucB%252FPP6ChEn65wOcJuX02OVJD1Unud%252Bu2hc2MXKi6f0Et6zxgDKdbWzIhGOiBvW50273%252FBxppgrKhznYp0UkdXIRUy29%252BbZHSIeWuW2%252Bt2I3J7EH0XSN759g%252FbRt%252FnkNo6gh5mrdMRTEfVmg8R7sG9BK7tqq2GvgeHESJB6MdVyo%252FXjdgKULT%252BhCCrID%252Bi1nAuMebMMPvcqjiP8ZBznpyFhQQ%252BdJIb%252BrSulGJT4Fr61R9furhXY91Rn0wjVaRYePwjkz42rvK7%252BZj4VzZ%252B84cXxI1MVp7yIZEMhDUePaBYQtuuAzY6Bjkvrda%252B0Klnzv7EbxROkMBtZLkytuVi1DWS7UnVKZXmtrVRDPbuWkutRYsgVU86VoOBPZjxFxeiSeNbfqhmOkPUynaoRrBtiHtYcFDu4hXI5WOobACfyF%252F%252BJCOegnmLRb1MPehF0FD%252FyY8vGKJBvCk%252B2Vwxsm%252B6BG%252F8ac00UG1xRU6jJ2KgbGncP67f52W%252FpELM%252BjXwAK6reZZc0U087Yfiigoa3UdOvlftco2KjzVUY4gHq%252B7rmfkOb%252FKqoDC0QrFWEC4GBjd6YsOFO114iU%252BTV%252B9nIh0e9bfw%253D%253D%7Campid%3APL_CLK%7Cclp%3A2047675&epid=1772324768
> >
> >
> > More Pics
> > <
> https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1U7o7AuiLQUyLCCwfV4zCoCtOD15QpmeE?usp=sharing
> >
> >
> > So far I have made my own torque mode DC drives for the x and z and that
> > seems to be working OK. I am using mesa 7i80 for I/O. Next I need to
> start
> > putting all the pieces together.
> >
> > The mechanics of the machine seem to be in excellent condition. Probably
> > because the machine has had little use even though it is old.
> >
> > John Figie
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
>
>
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>

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Re: [Emc-users] Thoughts / Recommendations on spindle drive and motor

[Todd Zuercher]

At 320amps, that 300? stall torque is certainly not in in/lbs.

Todd Zuercher
P. Graham Dunn Inc.
630 Henry Street 
Dalton, Ohio 44618
Phone:  (330)828-2105ext. 2031

-Original Message-
From: John Figie  
Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2022 1:13 PM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
Subject: [Emc-users] Thoughts / Recommendations on spindle drive and motor

[EXTERNAL EMAIL] Be sure links are safe.

Now I am ready to figure out what to do for the spindle drive.

The project is a 1972 Clausig NC lathe. The original paper tape fed controls 
are long gone. I actually have the owners manual. The original lathe had a 5 HP 
motor and a variable speed transmission similar to bridgeport heads and many 
machines of that era. But that variable speed drive is no longer with the 
lathe. The next owner fitted a large PMDC motor to the machine - which I still 
have. IT is a beast of a motor with tachometer feedback. The nameplate has a 
continuous stall torque of 300 (in-lbs?), a peak amps rating of 320 amps, 4000 
RPM and 217 VDC.
https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdrive.google.com%2Ffile%2Fd%2F1O1217d-umZHpIvBtVZ4XCjMkOsplnwgu%2Fview%3Fusp%3Dsharing&data=04%7C01%7Ctoddz%40pgrahamdunn.com%7Cc93aa0ad144d427d611d08da0db9c52d%7C5758544c573f47cebee96c3e0806fb43%7C0%7C0%7C637837388786138806%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=1abiiaQLmiUU4GrMYJM5RHdOHwLNu7XJMMGz1pp5B%2Fk%3D&reserved=0
Information in the manual indicates that original max spindle speed was likely 
2000 RPM. THe spindle is geared by a timing belt that has a motor pulley of 30 
and a spindle pulley of 47. The next owner of the machine - who I purchased the 
lathe from removed the DC motor and installed a 1750 RPM 5 HP 220V 3phase 
Baldor motor. The 5 HP baldor is currently mounted on the machine.
https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdrive.google.com%2Ffile%2Fd%2F1aBlcbBWQ48A-brels9UIhQqBcvd0fiXx%2Fview%3Fusp%3Dsharing&data=04%7C01%7Ctoddz%40pgrahamdunn.com%7Cc93aa0ad144d427d611d08da0db9c52d%7C5758544c573f47cebee96c3e0806fb43%7C0%7C0%7C637837388786138806%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=3EHPGsnbbyLdx2L8S78e9mhYXsri%2FajZmbUFht0FnFM%3D&reserved=0

Now what to do about the drive for the spindle?

1) Keep the 5HP motor and use a VFD to run the motor faster to get my 2000 
spindle speed? 2000 * 47/30 = 3133 RPM. I don't have much experience with 
induction motor drives. Is is feasible to run my motor at nearly double it 
rated speed? Are these cheap single phase input VFDs any good?
ebay link


More Pics

Re: [Emc-users] Thoughts / Recommendations on spindle drive and motor

[gene heskett]

On Thursday, 24 March 2022 13:13:03 EDT John Figie wrote:
> Now I am ready to figure out what to do for the spindle drive.
> 
> The project is a 1972 Clausig NC lathe. The original paper tape fed
> controls are long gone. I actually have the owners manual. The original
> lathe had a 5 HP motor and a variable speed transmission similar to
> bridgeport heads and many machines of that era. But that variable
> speed drive is no longer with the lathe. The next owner fitted a large
> PMDC motor to the machine - which I still have. IT is a beast of a
> motor with tachometer feedback. The nameplate has a continuous stall
> torque of 300 (in-lbs?), a peak amps rating of 320 amps, 4000 RPM and
> 217 VDC.
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1O1217d-umZHpIvBtVZ4XCjMkOsplnwgu/view
> ?usp=sharing Information in the manual indicates that original max
> spindle speed was likely 2000 RPM. THe spindle is geared by a timing
> belt that has a motor pulley of 30 and a spindle pulley of 47. The
> next owner of the machine - who I purchased the lathe from removed the
> DC motor and installed a 1750 RPM 5 HP 220V 3phase Baldor motor. The 5
> HP baldor is currently mounted on the machine.
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1aBlcbBWQ48A-brels9UIhQqBcvd0fiXx/view?
> usp=sharing
> 
> Now what to do about the drive for the spindle?
> 
> 1) Keep the 5HP motor and use a VFD to run the motor faster to get my
> 2000 spindle speed? 2000 * 47/30 = 3133 RPM. I don't have much
> experience with induction motor drives. Is is feasible to run my motor
> at nearly double it rated speed? Are these cheap single phase input
> VFDs any good?

I'm using 2 of these but in the 1.5 horse sizing here, and they work 
extremely well when controlled totally by linuxcnc. For a 5hp, you'll 
need a 25 amp breaker in your service box. Thats a bit north of 10 gauge 
romex for a feed, so I'd use 8 gauge in conduit just to keep the 
inspectors happy. You might get by with a 20 amps and 10 gauge, but 
nuisance trips might be frequent, depending on how you have it tuned, and 
they don't come OOTB with anything like an optimum tune. They can be sped 
up for speed and direction changes by several orders of magnitude. My 
1.5hp can reverse a 1hp, in first gear belt position, turning the 35lb 
spindle 100 rpms, in .25 of a turn.  Thats somewhere between pretty fast, 
and damned fast. Belts slip if the pulleys are worn and bellyed out.

Because the motors have inductance which limits the current at higher 
hz's, you'll find that 5hp is pretty well out of torque at 200 hz. You 
won't hurt the motor doing it unless its cooling fan is weak, it might 
explode. And if you limit the low speed boost to the motors FLA rating, 
you'll reduce the nuisance trips, and gain the ability to run it at 5hz 
for long enough to get the job done w/o burning your hand on the motor. A 
4 pole motor, running at 400hz, will if it has enough torque, run at 
12,000 rpms, about 2x faster than it can actually turn. 6 grand, aka 200 
hz, s/b be considered the red line.

> ebay link
>  D1110006%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D237808%26meid%3Dff3ee
> a0653834c509c5a592b1ba40972%26pid%3D101195%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D1
> 83100064244%26itm%3D224441224652%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2047675%26a
> lgv%3DSimplAMLv9PairwiseWebMskuAspectsV202110NoVariantSeed&_trksid=p204
> 7675.c101195.m1851&amdata=cksum%3A224441224652ff3eea0653834c509c5a592b1
> ba40972%7Cenc%3AAQAGAAACEOgL6rSsLbmX3BNmrTUtzjXFnK5T7FXeEWyt%252FMTCcEh
> YXj1eFLAyDkUF3cgxnfgzv4cbJBL17cObzrqgUBjPnSWoDV9H%252F97l1QpjsMVxHCPzuc
> B%252FPP6ChEn65wOcJuX02OVJD1Unud%252Bu2hc2MXKi6f0Et6zxgDKdbWzIhGOiBvW50
> 273%252FBxppgrKhznYp0UkdXIRUy29%252BbZHSIeWuW2%252Bt2I3J7EH0XSN759g%252
> FbRt%252FnkNo6gh5mrdMRTEfVmg8R7sG9BK7tqq2GvgeHESJB6MdVyo%252FXjdgKULT%2
> 52BhCCrID%252Bi1nAuMebMMPvcqjiP8ZBznpyFhQQ%252BdJIb%252BrSulGJT4Fr61R9f
> urhXY91Rn0wjVaRYePwjkz42rvK7%252BZj4VzZ%252B84cXxI1MVp7yIZEMhDUePaBYQtu
> uAzY6Bjkvrda%252B0Klnzv7EbxROkMBtZLkytuVi1DWS7UnVKZXmtrVRDPbuWkutRYsgVU
> 86VoOBPZjxFxeiSeNbfqhmOkPUynaoRrBtiHtYcFDu4hXI5WOobACfyF%252F%252BJCOeg
> nmLRb1MPehF0FD%252FyY8vGKJBvCk%252B2Vwxsm%252B6BG%252F8ac00UG1xRU6jJ2Kg
> bGncP67f52W%252FpELM%252BjXwAK6reZZc0U087Yfiigoa3UdOvlftco2KjzVUY4gHq%2
> 52B7rmfkOb%252FKqoDC0QrFWEC4GBjd6YsOFO114iU%252BTV%252B9nIh0e9bfw%253D%
> 253D%7Campid%3APL_CLK%7Cclp%3A2047675&epid=1772324768>
> 
> More Pics
>  eE?usp=sharing>
> 
> So far I have made my own torque mode DC drives for the x and z and
> that seems to be working OK. I am using mesa 7i80 for I/O. Next I need
> to start putting all the pieces together.
> 
> The mechanics of the machine seem to be in excellent condition.
> Probably because the machine has had little use even though it is old.
> 
> John Figie
> 
Take care John.
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Re: [Emc-users] Thoughts / Recommendations on spindle drive and motor

[John Figie]

Robin Szemeti wrote:
"More obviously, run the motor at its rated speed, change one of the pulleys
to give you your desired spindle speed."
While that is true, my thinking is that if i gear it up so that 1700
RPM -> 2000 spindle RPM then I lose mre torque at low speeds through
the
gearring. On the other hand if the gearing is left as is then I just
lose torque when the drive is running at say 120 hz due to field
weakening.
But if the lathe is running that fast I am probably turning something
small in DIA and really don't need a lot of torque or HP So that is
why
I ask if it seems OK to run a 1700 RPM motor around 2X its nameplate
speed (its not an inverter duty motor) and I am a hobbyist. Is there
really much difference in the construction of a 3400 RPM induction
motor vs a 1700 RPM motor other than the number of poles? I mean the
rotor and bearings are probably similar?

Todd Z wrote:
"At 320amps, that 300? stall torque is certainly not in in/lbs."
That 320 says max peak amps so I don't think that is the continuous
stall current, I mean, like no way can it be. While 300 in*lbs or 25
Ft.Lbs seems
like a reasonable stall for a motor that size. Im guessing that stall
current would be somewhere around 30-40 amps? Anyway that would be
some pretty big power devices to assemble into my DC drive maybe too
much work for me. My smaller DC drives that I have made are really
made
from repurposed drive hardware that I had on hand.



On Thu, Mar 24, 2022 at 2:33 PM gene heskett  wrote:
0 * 47/30 = 3133 RPM. I don't have much

> I'm using 2 of these but in the 1.5 horse sizing here, and they work
> extremely well when controlled totally by linuxcnc. For a 5hp, you'll
> need a 25 amp breaker in your service box. Thats a bit north of 10 gauge
> romex for a feed, so I'd use 8 gauge in conduit just to keep the
> inspectors happy. You might get by with a 20 amps and 10 gauge, but
> nuisance trips might be frequent, depending on how you have it tuned, and
> they don't come OOTB with anything like an optimum tune. They can be sped
> up for speed and direction changes by several orders of magnitude. My
> 1.5hp can reverse a 1hp, in first gear belt position, turning the 35lb
> spindle 100 rpms, in .25 of a turn.  Thats somewhere between pretty fast,
> and damned fast. Belts slip if the pulleys are worn and bellyed out.
>
> Because the motors have inductance which limits the current at higher
> hz's, you'll find that 5hp is pretty well out of torque at 200 hz. You
> won't hurt the motor doing it unless its cooling fan is weak, it might
> explode. And if you limit the low speed boost to the motors FLA rating,
> you'll reduce the nuisance trips, and gain the ability to run it at 5hz
> for long enough to get the job done w/o burning your hand on the motor. A
> 4 pole motor, running at 400hz, will if it has enough torque, run at
> 12,000 rpms, about 2x faster than it can actually turn. 6 grand, aka 200
> hz, s/b be considered the red line.

Thanks Gene this is really helpful info to me. I don't think I would run the
drive faster than 2X the motor rated speed (120 hz) for the reasons you state as
well as for being nice to the lathe spindle bearings.  The lathe also has a
3 speed gearbox in the headstock.

When I built my new shop I had 200A service put in. I use Hubble Wireway
around the shop so it is easy to add or modify wiring and it keeps things neat.

I plan on putting the VFD drive close to the motor and well away from my other
linuxCNC controls.  Hopefully this will help with noise. Are you using
line input
filters with your drives?

Regards,

John Figie


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Re: [Emc-users] Thoughts / Recommendations on spindle drive and motor

[gene heskett]

On Thursday, 24 March 2022 16:16:06 EDT John Figie wrote:
> Robin Szemeti wrote:
> "More obviously, run the motor at its rated speed, change one of the
> pulleys to give you your desired spindle speed."
> While that is true, my thinking is that if i gear it up so that 1700
> RPM -> 2000 spindle RPM then I lose mre torque at low speeds through
> the
> gearring. On the other hand if the gearing is left as is then I just
> lose torque when the drive is running at say 120 hz due to field
> weakening.
> But if the lathe is running that fast I am probably turning something
> small in DIA and really don't need a lot of torque or HP So that is
> why
> I ask if it seems OK to run a 1700 RPM motor around 2X its nameplate
> speed (its not an inverter duty motor) and I am a hobbyist. Is there
> really much difference in the construction of a 3400 RPM induction
> motor vs a 1700 RPM motor other than the number of poles? I mean the
> rotor and bearings are probably similar?
> 
> Todd Z wrote:
> "At 320amps, that 300? stall torque is certainly not in in/lbs."
> That 320 says max peak amps so I don't think that is the continuous
> stall current, I mean, like no way can it be. While 300 in*lbs or 25
> Ft.Lbs seems
> like a reasonable stall for a motor that size. Im guessing that stall
> current would be somewhere around 30-40 amps? Anyway that would be
> some pretty big power devices to assemble into my DC drive maybe too
> much work for me. My smaller DC drives that I have made are really
> made
> from repurposed drive hardware that I had on hand.
> 
> 
> 
> On Thu, Mar 24, 2022 at 2:33 PM gene heskett 
> wrote: 0 * 47/30 = 3133 RPM. I don't have much
> 
> > I'm using 2 of these but in the 1.5 horse sizing here, and they work
> > extremely well when controlled totally by linuxcnc. For a 5hp, you'll
> > need a 25 amp breaker in your service box. Thats a bit north of 10
> > gauge romex for a feed, so I'd use 8 gauge in conduit just to keep
> > the inspectors happy. You might get by with a 20 amps and 10 gauge,
> > but nuisance trips might be frequent, depending on how you have it
> > tuned, and they don't come OOTB with anything like an optimum tune.
> > They can be sped up for speed and direction changes by several
> > orders of magnitude. My 1.5hp can reverse a 1hp, in first gear belt
> > position, turning the 35lb spindle 100 rpms, in .25 of a turn. 
> > Thats somewhere between pretty fast, and damned fast. Belts slip if
> > the pulleys are worn and bellyed out.
> > 
> > Because the motors have inductance which limits the current at higher
> > hz's, you'll find that 5hp is pretty well out of torque at 200 hz.
> > You
> > won't hurt the motor doing it unless its cooling fan is weak, it
> > might
> > explode. And if you limit the low speed boost to the motors FLA
> > rating, you'll reduce the nuisance trips, and gain the ability to
> > run it at 5hz for long enough to get the job done w/o burning your
> > hand on the motor. A 4 pole motor, running at 400hz, will if it has
> > enough torque, run at 12,000 rpms, about 2x faster than it can
> > actually turn. 6 grand, aka 200 hz, s/b be considered the red line.
> 
> Thanks Gene this is really helpful info to me. I don't think I would
> run the drive faster than 2X the motor rated speed (120 hz) for the
> reasons you state as well as for being nice to the lathe spindle
> bearings.  The lathe also has a 3 speed gearbox in the headstock.
> 
> When I built my new shop I had 200A service put in. I use Hubble
> Wireway around the shop so it is easy to add or modify wiring and it
> keeps things neat.
> 
> I plan on putting the VFD drive close to the motor and well away from
> my other linuxCNC controls.  Hopefully this will help with noise. Are
> you using line input
> filters with your drives?
> 
I am, corfam 30 mhz brick walls but in its series with the pi's 5 amp 
psu. Once I got the grounds straightened out I could probably remove the 
filter, OTOH its belt and suspenders too.

I'm also using a 2 pack of 400v, 40 amp SSR's turnd on by pushing the F2 
button on the keyboard, which when off, kills all power except for the 5V 
5A supply that runs the rpi4.  So the pi runs forever, drawing about 5 
watts. Uptimes with a little ups on the pi and a 20kw autostart generac 
in the back yard are phenominally long.

> Regards,
> 
> John Figie
> 
> 
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> .


Cheers, Gene Heskett.
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis





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Re: [Emc-users] Thoughts / Recommendations on spindle drive and motor

[andy pugh]

On Thu, 24 Mar 2022 at 17:16, John Figie  wrote:
>
> 1) Keep the 5HP motor and use a VFD to run the motor faster to get my 2000
> spindle speed? 2000 * 47/30 = 3133 RPM. I don't have much experience with
> induction motor drives. Is is feasible to run my motor at nearly double it
> rated speed?

Yes, the mechanical parts of a 1750 motor are identical to those of a
3000 rpm motor (or whatever your 60Hz ones do) so they are generally
fine at double frequency.
One advantage of doing it this way rather than gearing up is that you
have more torque at the lower speeds.

I would expect the DC motor to perform better at low speeds than the
induction motor, though. If you can drive it.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] Thoughts / Recommendations on spindle drive and motor

[Ed]

On 3/24/22 3:54 PM, andy pugh wrote:

On Thu, 24 Mar 2022 at 17:16, John Figie  wrote:

1) Keep the 5HP motor and use a VFD to run the motor faster to get my 2000
spindle speed? 2000 * 47/30 = 3133 RPM. I don't have much experience with
induction motor drives. Is is feasible to run my motor at nearly double it
rated speed?

Yes, the mechanical parts of a 1750 motor are identical to those of a
3000 rpm motor (or whatever your 60Hz ones do) so they are generally
fine at double frequency.
One advantage of doing it this way rather than gearing up is that you
have more torque at the lower speeds.

I would expect the DC motor to perform better at low speeds than the
induction motor, though. If you can drive it.

Andy has it right, DC works better at low RPM. Double frequency is fine 
on a 1750 motor. I run a 5 HP 1750 at 140 Hz for 4200 RPM on my Hardinge 
CHNC. It lets me run at 2400 RPM tops and pulls a 5/8-11 tap at 200 RPM.



Ed.




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Re: [Emc-users] Thoughts / Recommendations on spindle drive and motor

[Ed]

On 3/24/22 3:54 PM, andy pugh wrote:

On Thu, 24 Mar 2022 at 17:16, John Figie  wrote:

1) Keep the 5HP motor and use a VFD to run the motor faster to get my 2000
spindle speed? 2000 * 47/30 = 3133 RPM. I don't have much experience with
induction motor drives. Is is feasible to run my motor at nearly double it
rated speed?


I noticed the motor in the pic is 200V not 220 or 240. If you input 240V 
it will draw more amps and effectively be 7 1/2HP.



Ed.




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