Re: [-empyre-] CG and all things fuzzy, and some thoughts on ethics
Ha ha! Royksopp - that's sarcastic data... Like a car engine, the heart depends on electrical energy to start it and keep it beating regularly. Mitchell Whitelaw: Data Walks reminds me of the analogous landscape projects by C5: http:// www.c5corp.com/projects/analogouslandscape/index.shtml R On 17 Feb 2010, at 23:10, Sean Cubitt wrote: Hey richard Try Rpoyskopp’s video remind me http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBvaHZIrt0o And check Mitchell Whitelaw’s data visualisation blog at http://teemingvoid.blogspot.com/ sean On 17/02/10 10:25 AM, Richard Wright futurenatu...@blueyonder.co.uk wrote: Hi there, I just wanted to respond to a couple of recent posts about animated documentary and those thorny indexicality questions. I once wrote a proposal called Data Visualisation as the Successor to Documentary Film Making (thinking actually of animated film making). I wonder if Paul or Erik or anyone else had any thoughts about this possibility of taking data records and animating them? Either directly and algorithmically or using more interpretative or even non-digital techniques? The source of the data and the circumstances in which it was obtained can also create difficult ethical questions, quite apart from questions of veracity (they might have been obtained under torture for example). There are very few film examples of this I can think of, not even my own. One of the few is Aaron Koblin's Flight Patterns (http:// www.aaronkoblin.com/work/flightpatterns) and another is Jane Marsching's Rising North (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ efimeravulgata/349639 for a view of the installation version of the video). Andrea Polli possibly. Much of it to do with climate change data. I'm not mentioning these specific ones because I particularly like them (the Rising North piece, for instance, looks a bit too much to me like deciphering a multimedia interface). But I was struggling to think of any others and I wondered if anyone else knew of any film makers that were moving in this direction... Richard On 15 Feb 2010, at 18:37, Paul Ward wrote: Hi, it's me again! A couple of my main research interests are Animation (quelle surprise!) and Documentary, and I've been looking into how animation and nonfiction work together (or not) for some time now. See Chapter 5 of my book Documentary: The Margins of Reality (Wallflower, 2005); plus Animated interactions: animation aesthetics and the 'interactive' documentary in S. Buchan (ed.) with David Surman and Paul Ward (Associate Eds.) Animated 'Worlds' (John Libbey, 2006). The latter discusses 'Going Equipped' alongside Bob Sabiston's 1999 short 'Snack and Drink' I think the idea of animation as a 'filter' is apposite - it is the filter through which re-presentations of real people and events are 'creatively treated' (to echo John Grierson again). This also makes some interesting possible connections to animation and memory, or animation and states of mind, and how these areas overlap (or contrast) with 'documentary'. Animations like 'Waltz with Bashir', 'Persepolis' or Andy Glynne's short films 'Animated minds' (about mental health) are all, arguably, sub-types of the animated documentary category, but approach it in very different ways best wishes Paul From: empyre-boun...@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au on behalf of christopher sullivan Sent: Sun 14/02/2010 18:22 To: soft_skinned_space; Suzanne Buchan Cc: soft_skinned_space Subject: Re: [-empyre-] CG and all things fuzzy, and some thoughts on ethics Hi Suzanne, thanks for the generous discussion. As a practitioner I will say that I am really not too bothered by the issues of representation, and truth, or authenticity, I think those are interesting points of discussion, but nothing that will ever be cured. but are we really that confused in the theater? I have found that children for instance have very clear understandings of what is real, what is manipulated, what is fantasy. the idea that media is continuously lying to us, can also lead to a lot of political empathy, I teach an alternative animation history class, and one of our weeks we show all non fiction animation. here is the week. Reading: Understanding Animation, chapter 3 Narrative strategies. 68-92 Week 6 October 19th NON FICTION- These films all use animations power to manifest images that have no filmic record. The result is a curious take on truth and representation.. Is there an emotional safety in these cartoony depictions, of otherwise unbearable images? Roger Ebert , speaking about Grave of the Fire flies. John and Faith Hubley. Sample 1960-75 The Dara Dogs. Denise Topicoff. -A is for Autism, Tim Web 1998. Champaine by Michael Sporn. Some Protection, Marjut Rimmenen,1987 -Brother, Adam Benjamin Elliot 2003- Going Equipped ,Peter Lords 1989 -Abductees , Paul Vesters 1998
Re: [-empyre-] CG and all things fuzzy, and now books
interactions: animation aesthetics and the 'interactive' documentary in S. Buchan (ed.) with David Surman and Paul Ward (Associate Eds.) Animated 'Worlds' (John Libbey, 2006). The latter discusses 'Going Equipped' alongside Bob Sabiston's 1999 short 'Snack and Drink' I think the idea of animation as a 'filter' is apposite - it is the filter through which re-presentations of real people and events are 'creatively treated' (to echo John Grierson again). This also makes some interesting possible connections to animation and memory, or animation and states of mind, and how these areas overlap (or contrast) with 'documentary'. Animations like 'Waltz with Bashir', 'Persepolis' or Andy Glynne's short films 'Animated minds' (about mental health) are all, arguably, sub-types of the animated documentary category, but approach it in very different ways best wishes Paul From: empyre-boun...@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au on behalf of christopher sullivan Sent: Sun 14/02/2010 18:22 To: soft_skinned_space; Suzanne Buchan Cc: soft_skinned_space Subject: Re: [-empyre-] CG and all things fuzzy, and some thoughts on ethics Hi Suzanne, thanks for the generous discussion. As a practitioner I will say that I am really not too bothered by the issues of representation, and truth, or authenticity, I think those are interesting points of discussion, but nothing that will ever be cured. but are we really that confused in the theater? I have found that children for instance have very clear understandings of what is real, what is manipulated, what is fantasy. the idea that media is continuously lying to us, can also lead to a lot of political empathy, I teach an alternative animation history class, and one of our weeks we show all non fiction animation. here is the week. Reading: Understanding Animation, chapter 3 Narrative strategies. 68-92 Week 6 October 19th NON FICTION- These films all use animations power to manifest images that have no filmic record. The result is a curious take on truth and representation.. Is there an emotional safety in these cartoony depictions, of otherwise unbearable images? Roger Ebert , speaking about Grave of the Fire flies. John and Faith Hubley. Sample 1960-75 The Dara Dogs. Denise Topicoff. -A is for Autism, Tim Web 1998. Champaine by Michael Sporn. Some Protection, Marjut Rimmenen,1987 -Brother, Adam Benjamin Elliot 2003- Going Equipped ,Peter Lords 1989 -Abductees , Paul Vesters 1998 The Fetishist, Jim Trainer 1998- Ryan, Chris Landrithe 2003 A Room Near By, still life with animated dogs, Paul Ferlinger 2002- 2004 these films all deal with the strange in between possibilities of animation as a filter for truth. I often show Ryan this week also, The students are always interested in discussing the inclusion of Chris Landreth in the film. it is both interesting and problematic, that his desire to implicate the documenter, is also very problematic. does he truly believe that his state of crisis parallels Ryan Larkin, in a SRO facility? I argue that the real issue of representation through animation is not nearly so complicated. and why do we have to create a theoretical censoring bureau, just make the work, and let it hit people, all sloppy and imperfect. do the questions below really need to be brought to some kind of conclusion? is it truly a crisis? The increasing convergence, barrage and resulting pervasiveness of manipulated imagery, including traditional and digital animation, has overwhelmed many of its viewers, and this has pressing philosophical and ethical connotations. In terms of the status of indexicality and truth claims of the visual, in 1998 Elsaesser suggested a crisis was evolving: Any technology that materially affects this status, and digitization would seem to be such a technology, thus puts in crisis deeply-held beliefs about representation and visualization, and many of the discourses - critical, scientific or aesthetic - based on, or formulated in the name of the indexical in our culture, need to be re- examined. as media professors, I think we have to also challenge media literacy Dogma which implies that all viewers are completely at the mercy of the moving image. once something is digital, sorry Lev, but it means nothing, it is a technical expedient. Animators have the opportunity to carve out new and wonderful ways of creating work and bringing subjects to the screen that were not possible before. A true act of political subversion is the recent screening of Don Hertsfeilds new films. the audience came to see funny. instead they saw an amazing maturing of his work into a dark and beautiful piece that made me weep several times. He really seized the moment to talk about something important. I say let's focus on content, not media, and get to work making the films that we feel must be made. Chris Quoting Suzanne Buchan sbuc...@ucreative.ac.uk: Renate (I can't turn off HTML
Re: [-empyre-] CG and all things fuzzy, and now books
Hi there, thanks for these pointers Eric. I've been doing a lot of broadcast documentary graphics in the last year and have become more aware of how it is approached from that direction. We often find ourselves mixing more strictly information graphics with data visualisation techniques, such as for representing certain geological terrains, but not entirely because it is a true or accurate record - often it is for reasons of being technically propitious or being visually suggestive in itself. (Tip - Death Valley is useful for virtually any kind of landscape purpose). At the risk of suddenly breezing on, I have another question for everyone. Does anyone have any favourite animation theory or animation studies books they find particularly useful in the classroom? Especially for explaining concepts to or for stimulating ideas in practitioners. The last interesting one I read was The Sharpest Point, although as an anthology it did not have to develop a single line of argument. And Norman Klein is always a fun read (hopefully for students as well!). Richard On 18 Feb 2010, at 18:50, Eric Patrick wrote: Hi Richard, This is really fascinating stuff... not my area of expertise, but Fernanda Viegas of IBM research in Cambridge is doing some of this sort of work (http://manyeyes.alphaworks.ibm.com/manyeyes/). Probably what we see more of in our little animation neck of the woods is info-graphics for visualization: http://vimeo.com/ 3261363. Perhaps Paul is still around and may have some interesting sources to add. Sorry can't be of more help... ep ==Original message text=== On Tue, 16 Feb 2010 5:25:13 pm CST Richard Wright wrote: Hi there, I just wanted to respond to a couple of recent posts about animated documentary and those thorny indexicality questions. I once wrote a proposal called Data Visualisation as the Successor to Documentary Film Making (thinking actually of animated film making). I wonder if Paul or Erik or anyone else had any thoughts about this possibility of taking data records and animating them? Either directly and algorithmically or using more interpretative or even non-digital techniques? The source of the data and the circumstances in which it was obtained can also create difficult ethical questions, quite apart from questions of veracity (they might have been obtained under torture for example). There are very few film examples of this I can think of, not even my own. One of the few is Aaron Koblin's Flight Patterns (http:// www.aaronkoblin.com/work/flightpatterns) and another is Jane Marsching's Rising North (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ efimeravulgata/349639 for a view of the installation version of the video). Andrea Polli possibly. Much of it to do with climate change data. I'm not mentioning these specific ones because I particularly like them (the Rising North piece, for instance, looks a bit too much to me like deciphering a multimedia interface). But I was struggling to think of any others and I wondered if anyone else knew of any film makers that were moving in this direction... Richard On 15 Feb 2010, at 18:37, Paul Ward wrote: Hi, it's me again! A couple of my main research interests are Animation (quelle surprise!) and Documentary, and I've been looking into how animation and nonfiction work together (or not) for some time now. See Chapter 5 of my book Documentary: The Margins of Reality (Wallflower, 2005); plus Animated interactions: animation aesthetics and the 'interactive' documentary in S. Buchan (ed.) with David Surman and Paul Ward (Associate Eds.) Animated 'Worlds' (John Libbey, 2006). The latter discusses 'Going Equipped' alongside Bob Sabiston's 1999 short 'Snack and Drink' I think the idea of animation as a 'filter' is apposite - it is the filter through which re-presentations of real people and events are 'creatively treated' (to echo John Grierson again). This also makes some interesting possible connections to animation and memory, or animation and states of mind, and how these areas overlap (or contrast) with 'documentary'. Animations like 'Waltz with Bashir', 'Persepolis' or Andy Glynne's short films 'Animated minds' (about mental health) are all, arguably, sub-types of the animated documentary category, but approach it in very different ways best wishes Paul From: empyre-boun...@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au on behalf of christopher sullivan Sent: Sun 14/02/2010 18:22 To: soft_skinned_space; Suzanne Buchan Cc: soft_skinned_space Subject: Re: [-empyre-] CG and all things fuzzy, and some thoughts on ethics Hi Suzanne, thanks for the generous discussion. As a practitioner I will say that I am really not too bothered by the issues of representation, and truth, or authenticity, I think those are interesting points of discussion, but nothing that will ever be cured
Re: [-empyre-] CG and all things fuzzy, and some thoughts on ethics
Hey richard Try Rpoyskopp¹s video remind me http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBvaHZIrt0o And check Mitchell Whitelaw¹s data visualisation blog at http://teemingvoid.blogspot.com/ sean On 17/02/10 10:25 AM, Richard Wright futurenatu...@blueyonder.co.uk wrote: Hi there, I just wanted to respond to a couple of recent posts about animated documentary and those thorny indexicality questions. I once wrote a proposal called Data Visualisation as the Successor to Documentary Film Making (thinking actually of animated film making). I wonder if Paul or Erik or anyone else had any thoughts about this possibility of taking data records and animating them? Either directly and algorithmically or using more interpretative or even non-digital techniques? The source of the data and the circumstances in which it was obtained can also create difficult ethical questions, quite apart from questions of veracity (they might have been obtained under torture for example). There are very few film examples of this I can think of, not even my own. One of the few is Aaron Koblin's Flight Patterns (http://www.aaronkoblin.com/work/flightpatterns) and another is Jane Marsching's Rising North (http://www.flickr.com/photos/efimeravulgata/349639 for a view of the installation version of the video). Andrea Polli possibly. Much of it to do with climate change data. I'm not mentioning these specific ones because I particularly like them (the Rising North piece, for instance, looks a bit too much to me like deciphering a multimedia interface). But I was struggling to think of any others and I wondered if anyone else knew of any film makers that were moving in this direction... Richard On 15 Feb 2010, at 18:37, Paul Ward wrote: Hi, it's me again! A couple of my main research interests are Animation (quelle surprise!) and Documentary, and I've been looking into how animation and nonfiction work together (or not) for some time now. See Chapter 5 of my book Documentary: The Margins of Reality (Wallflower, 2005); plus Animated interactions: animation aesthetics and the 'interactive' documentary in S. Buchan (ed.) with David Surman and Paul Ward (Associate Eds.) Animated 'Worlds' (John Libbey, 2006). The latter discusses 'Going Equipped' alongside Bob Sabiston's 1999 short 'Snack and Drink' I think the idea of animation as a 'filter' is apposite - it is the filter through which re-presentations of real people and events are 'creatively treated' (to echo John Grierson again). This also makes some interesting possible connections to animation and memory, or animation and states of mind, and how these areas overlap (or contrast) with 'documentary'. Animations like 'Waltz with Bashir', 'Persepolis' or Andy Glynne's short films 'Animated minds' (about mental health) are all, arguably, sub-types of the animated documentary category, but approach it in very different ways best wishes Paul From: empyre-boun...@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au on behalf of christopher sullivan Sent: Sun 14/02/2010 18:22 To: soft_skinned_space; Suzanne Buchan Cc: soft_skinned_space Subject: Re: [-empyre-] CG and all things fuzzy, and some thoughts on ethics Hi Suzanne, thanks for the generous discussion. As a practitioner I will say that I am really not too bothered by the issues of representation, and truth, or authenticity, I think those are interesting points of discussion, but nothing that will ever be cured. but are we really that confused in the theater? I have found that children for instance have very clear understandings of what is real, what is manipulated, what is fantasy. the idea that media is continuously lying to us, can also lead to a lot of political empathy, I teach an alternative animation history class, and one of our weeks we show all non fiction animation. here is the week. Reading: Understanding Animation, chapter 3 Narrative strategies. 68-92 Week 6 October 19th NON FICTION- These films all use animations power to manifest images that have no filmic record. The result is a curious take on truth and representation.. Is there an emotional safety in these cartoony depictions, of otherwise unbearable images? Roger Ebert , speaking about Grave of the Fire flies. John and Faith Hubley. Sample 1960-75 The Dara Dogs. Denise Topicoff. -A is for Autism, Tim Web 1998. Champaine by Michael Sporn. Some Protection, Marjut Rimmenen,1987 -Brother, Adam Benjamin Elliot 2003- Going Equipped ,Peter Lords 1989 -Abductees , Paul Vesters 1998 The Fetishist, Jim Trainer 1998- Ryan, Chris Landrithe 2003 A Room Near By, still life with animated dogs, Paul Ferlinger 2002- 2004 these films all deal with the strange in between possibilities of animation as a filter for truth. I often show Ryan this week also, The students are always interested in discussing the inclusion of Chris Landreth in the film
Re: [-empyre-] CG and all things fuzzy, and some thoughts on ethics
Hi Richard, This is really fascinating stuff... not my area of expertise, but Fernanda Viegas of IBM research in Cambridge is doing some of this sort of work (http://manyeyes.alphaworks.ibm.com/manyeyes/). Probably what we see more of in our little animation neck of the woods is info-graphics for visualization: http://vimeo.com/3261363. Perhaps Paul is still around and may have some interesting sources to add. Sorry can't be of more help... ep ==Original message text=== On Tue, 16 Feb 2010 5:25:13 pm CST Richard Wright wrote: Hi there, I just wanted to respond to a couple of recent posts about animated documentary and those thorny indexicality questions. I once wrote a proposal called Data Visualisation as the Successor to Documentary Film Making (thinking actually of animated film making). I wonder if Paul or Erik or anyone else had any thoughts about this possibility of taking data records and animating them? Either directly and algorithmically or using more interpretative or even non-digital techniques? The source of the data and the circumstances in which it was obtained can also create difficult ethical questions, quite apart from questions of veracity (they might have been obtained under torture for example). There are very few film examples of this I can think of, not even my own. One of the few is Aaron Koblin's Flight Patterns (http:// www.aaronkoblin.com/work/flightpatterns) and another is Jane Marsching's Rising North (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ efimeravulgata/349639 for a view of the installation version of the video). Andrea Polli possibly. Much of it to do with climate change data. I'm not mentioning these specific ones because I particularly like them (the Rising North piece, for instance, looks a bit too much to me like deciphering a multimedia interface). But I was struggling to think of any others and I wondered if anyone else knew of any film makers that were moving in this direction... Richard On 15 Feb 2010, at 18:37, Paul Ward wrote: Hi, it's me again! A couple of my main research interests are Animation (quelle surprise!) and Documentary, and I've been looking into how animation and nonfiction work together (or not) for some time now. See Chapter 5 of my book Documentary: The Margins of Reality (Wallflower, 2005); plus Animated interactions: animation aesthetics and the 'interactive' documentary in S. Buchan (ed.) with David Surman and Paul Ward (Associate Eds.) Animated 'Worlds' (John Libbey, 2006). The latter discusses 'Going Equipped' alongside Bob Sabiston's 1999 short 'Snack and Drink' I think the idea of animation as a 'filter' is apposite - it is the filter through which re-presentations of real people and events are 'creatively treated' (to echo John Grierson again). This also makes some interesting possible connections to animation and memory, or animation and states of mind, and how these areas overlap (or contrast) with 'documentary'. Animations like 'Waltz with Bashir', 'Persepolis' or Andy Glynne's short films 'Animated minds' (about mental health) are all, arguably, sub-types of the animated documentary category, but approach it in very different ways best wishes Paul From: empyre-boun...@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au on behalf of christopher sullivan Sent: Sun 14/02/2010 18:22 To: soft_skinned_space; Suzanne Buchan Cc: soft_skinned_space Subject: Re: [-empyre-] CG and all things fuzzy, and some thoughts on ethics Hi Suzanne, thanks for the generous discussion. As a practitioner I will say that I am really not too bothered by the issues of representation, and truth, or authenticity, I think those are interesting points of discussion, but nothing that will ever be cured. but are we really that confused in the theater? I have found that children for instance have very clear understandings of what is real, what is manipulated, what is fantasy. the idea that media is continuously lying to us, can also lead to a lot of political empathy, I teach an alternative animation history class, and one of our weeks we show all non fiction animation. here is the week. Reading: Understanding Animation, chapter 3 Narrative strategies. 68-92 Week 6 October 19th NON FICTION- These films all use animations power to manifest images that have no filmic record. The result is a curious take on truth and representation.. Is there an emotional safety in these cartoony depictions, of otherwise unbearable images? Roger Ebert , speaking about Grave of the Fire flies. John and Faith Hubley. Sample 1960-75 The Dara Dogs. Denise Topicoff. -A is for Autism, Tim Web 1998. Champaine by Michael Sporn. Some Protection, Marjut Rimmenen,1987 -Brother, Adam Benjamin Elliot 2003- Going Equipped ,Peter Lords 1989 -Abductees , Paul Vesters 1998
Re: [-empyre-] CG and all things fuzzy
and modeling, working out how to make a specific piece of software do something . . . the AUCB approach is, I guess, more 'holistic' in that the CG is not seen as an end in itself (for want of a better term), but as a tool to be used in the service of something else One of the problems with technology is how it is perceived - it is either a 'magic bullet'/panacea (we'd make better films if we had a software upgrade! Erm, in all likelihood, no you wouldn't) or it is some kind of threat to an imagined pre-lapsarian past, where people made films differently/better. I'm not suggesting anyone in on this discussion falls into either of these camps, but these, it seems to me, are the simple 'lay' positions - either technology is foregrounded as 'the answer' (even by people who aren't even sure of the question!) or it is seen as 'the problem'. As ever, the truth lies somewhere in between, and the complex histories of how technologies emerge and the uses to which they are put, needs to be carefully mapped. I've recently heard of a UK institution, well-known for Animation, which now has no light boxes or facilities for students to draw - it has, in effect, put all its eggs in the computer basket. As Suzanne points out, such moves (and the institution in question is by no means alone, of course, in having to 'rationalise' its resources and delivery) are part of the context of cuts to education. The way in which animation and other arts are taught is also increasingly seen in terms of what we call in the UK 'knowledge transfer', and this is linked strongly to 'enterprise' (as opposed to, say, 'research'), having a direct application for what you are teaching, and an 'impact' that can be measured. There is nothing intrinsically wrong with any of these things, even in education - why would we *not* want to make 'an impact'?! - but the strings are pulled by people other than academics and expert practitioners, and 'impact' therefore becomes an index of relatively very short-term and often economic factors, rather than (as one might expect from arts like animation) long-term and far-reaching - and very hard to measure - factors. I think I've gone off the point a little here, if indeed I was ever on it . . . I am sure there are some other points from other posts that I wanted to respond to, but I'll leave it there for now and send another post! cheers Paul From: empyre-boun...@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au on behalf of Simon Biggs Sent: Sat 13/02/2010 09:58 To: soft_skinned_space Subject: Re: [-empyre-] CG and all things fuzzy At eca we have a well established and regarded animation department, a pretty typical model of a UK art school animation department. There are a couple of antique computers in the studio's that the students can play about with. Most animation is undertaken using stop motion, clay-mation and drawing. Whereas once the material would have been recorded to film, frame by frame, and after that to video, these days they record direct to hard-drive and finish the work off in Final Cut Pro, editing rushes, synching sound, etc. This latter stage of production is not regarded as where the highest level skills are to be found. Walking around the animation studio's it is clear that the key skill that is held higher than any other is drawing. After that, it is motion and how that can be suggested in individual drawings and in tweening. Characterisation is the sought after outcome. But this is a certain type of animation, dominated by models found on TV, in the cinema and more and more in computer games. There are other models of animation (such as that practiced by Larry Cuba, for one). Best Simon Simon Biggs s.bi...@eca.ac.uk si...@littlepig.org.uk Skype: simonbiggsuk http:// http:/// www.littlepig.org.uk/ Research Professor edinburgh college of art http:// http:/// www.eca.ac.uk/ Creative Interdisciplinary Research into CoLlaborative Environments http:// http:/// www.eca.ac.uk/circle/ Electronic Literature as a Model of Creativity and Innovation in Practice http:// http:/// www.elmcip.net/ From: Renate Ferro r...@cornell.edu Reply-To: soft_skinned_space empyre@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 23:37:32 -0500 (EST) To: soft_skinned_space emp...@gamera.cofa.unsw.edu.au Subject: Re: [-empyre-] CG and all things fuzzy Dear Paul and Suzanne, Can you both talk about how CG fits into your animation programs? At Cornell, Computer Graphics and 3D animation is taught by Computing faculty. It is in the art department where students, particularly recently, have been creating stop action, frame by frame, roto-scoping, drawing based and a medley of other fuzzies. Whether working from photography based or original drawing. their novel, quirky rendering styles, interdisciplinary interests and criticality make their work fresh and innovative. How does it work in the UK? Renate
Re: [-empyre-] CG and all things fuzzy
I wonder if that institution is Sheffield Hallam University? I use to work there. Quite a few years ago they mothballed a lot of their traditional animation kit in favour of digital systems. They also did this in the printmaking department, an area the college was highly reputed in. Since I left they have even got rid of their purpose built art school buildings (ugly brutalist 2 storey studios, designed by the same architect who did the Royal College building, that were brilliant to work in) and relocated into the basement of the engineering department. I would assume that any remaining vestiges of traditional kit would have gone as floor area was cut by 40%. This is the same institution that includes Nick Park (Aardman animation, famous for creating Wallace and Grommit) amongst its alumni. I wonder what he would make of the changes. eca does retain its light-box and drawing approach. Personally I would rather a bit of both. Although I am not a formalist I do distinguish between practice that treats a medium as a tool (eg: how Paul Ward describes the use of computers in his department) and practice that treats it as medium (eg: seeks to engage the specific characteristics of the medium as core to the conceptual focus of the work). My own work falls into this latter area, although I wouldn¹t describe it as animation (some have). I am aware that there are some animation artists who do work with the specific characteristics of the medium as key in their conceptual approach. Svankmajer¹s 1982 Dimensions of Dialogue is a good example here, where he explores the nature of clay to do very clay-like (but not at all life-like) things (faces merging into one another, heads eating one another, etc). If some animation depends on the uncanny valley effect for its power then this is not it, as there is no attempt at realism. In the digital domain an artist I mentioned in an earlier post, Larry Cuba, is a good example of a medium specific approach. Another animator occupying an almost unique position is Len Lye. Best Simon Simon Biggs s.bi...@eca.ac.uk si...@littlepig.org.uk Skype: simonbiggsuk http://www.littlepig.org.uk/ Research Professor edinburgh college of art http://www.eca.ac.uk/ Creative Interdisciplinary Research into CoLlaborative Environments http://www.eca.ac.uk/circle/ Electronic Literature as a Model of Creativity and Innovation in Practice http://www.elmcip.net/ From: Paul Ward pw...@aucb.ac.uk Reply-To: soft_skinned_space empyre@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 14:37:12 - To: soft_skinned_space empyre@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au Subject: RE: [-empyre-] CG and all things fuzzy I've recently heard of a UK institution, well-known for Animation, which now has no light boxes or facilities for students to draw - it has, in effect, put all its eggs in the computer basket. As Suzanne points out, such moves (and the institution in question is by no means alone, of course, in having to 'rationalise' its resources and delivery) are part of the context of cuts to education. Edinburgh College of Art (eca) is a charity registered in Scotland, number SC009201 ___ empyre forum empyre@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au http://www.subtle.net/empyre
Re: [-empyre-] CG and all things fuzzy, and some thoughts on ethics
Hi, it's me again! A couple of my main research interests are Animation (quelle surprise!) and Documentary, and I've been looking into how animation and nonfiction work together (or not) for some time now. See Chapter 5 of my book Documentary: The Margins of Reality (Wallflower, 2005); plus Animated interactions: animation aesthetics and the 'interactive' documentary in S. Buchan (ed.) with David Surman and Paul Ward (Associate Eds.) Animated 'Worlds' (John Libbey, 2006). The latter discusses 'Going Equipped' alongside Bob Sabiston's 1999 short 'Snack and Drink' I think the idea of animation as a 'filter' is apposite - it is the filter through which re-presentations of real people and events are 'creatively treated' (to echo John Grierson again). This also makes some interesting possible connections to animation and memory, or animation and states of mind, and how these areas overlap (or contrast) with 'documentary'. Animations like 'Waltz with Bashir', 'Persepolis' or Andy Glynne's short films 'Animated minds' (about mental health) are all, arguably, sub-types of the animated documentary category, but approach it in very different ways best wishes Paul From: empyre-boun...@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au on behalf of christopher sullivan Sent: Sun 14/02/2010 18:22 To: soft_skinned_space; Suzanne Buchan Cc: soft_skinned_space Subject: Re: [-empyre-] CG and all things fuzzy, and some thoughts on ethics Hi Suzanne, thanks for the generous discussion. As a practitioner I will say that I am really not too bothered by the issues of representation, and truth, or authenticity, I think those are interesting points of discussion, but nothing that will ever be cured. but are we really that confused in the theater? I have found that children for instance have very clear understandings of what is real, what is manipulated, what is fantasy. the idea that media is continuously lying to us, can also lead to a lot of political empathy, I teach an alternative animation history class, and one of our weeks we show all non fiction animation. here is the week. Reading: Understanding Animation, chapter 3 Narrative strategies. 68-92 Week 6 October 19th NON FICTION- These films all use animations power to manifest images that have no filmic record. The result is a curious take on truth and representation.. Is there an emotional safety in these cartoony depictions, of otherwise unbearable images? Roger Ebert , speaking about Grave of the Fire flies. John and Faith Hubley. Sample 1960-75 The Dara Dogs. Denise Topicoff. -A is for Autism, Tim Web 1998. Champaine by Michael Sporn. Some Protection, Marjut Rimmenen,1987 -Brother, Adam Benjamin Elliot 2003- Going Equipped ,Peter Lords 1989 -Abductees , Paul Vesters 1998 The Fetishist, Jim Trainer 1998- Ryan, Chris Landrithe 2003 A Room Near By, still life with animated dogs, Paul Ferlinger 2002- 2004 these films all deal with the strange in between possibilities of animation as a filter for truth. I often show Ryan this week also, The students are always interested in discussing the inclusion of Chris Landreth in the film. it is both interesting and problematic, that his desire to implicate the documenter, is also very problematic. does he truly believe that his state of crisis parallels Ryan Larkin, in a SRO facility? I argue that the real issue of representation through animation is not nearly so complicated. and why do we have to create a theoretical censoring bureau, just make the work, and let it hit people, all sloppy and imperfect. do the questions below really need to be brought to some kind of conclusion? is it truly a crisis? The increasing convergence, barrage and resulting pervasiveness of manipulated imagery, including traditional and digital animation, has overwhelmed many of its viewers, and this has pressing philosophical and ethical connotations. In terms of the status of indexicality and truth claims of the visual, in 1998 Elsaesser suggested a crisis was evolving: Any technology that materially affects this status, and digitization would seem to be such a technology, thus puts in crisis deeply-held beliefs about representation and visualization, and many of the discourses - critical, scientific or aesthetic - based on, or formulated in the name of the indexical in our culture, need to be re-examined. as media professors, I think we have to also challenge media literacy Dogma which implies that all viewers are completely at the mercy of the moving image. once something is digital, sorry Lev, but it means nothing, it is a technical expedient. Animators have the opportunity to carve out new and wonderful ways of creating work and bringing subjects to the screen that were not possible before. A true act of political subversion is the recent screening of Don Hertsfeilds new films. the audience came to see funny. instead they saw an amazing maturing of his work into a dark
Re: [-empyre-] CG and all things fuzzy, and some thoughts on ethics
Hello Paul, IU will check out your book, as far as the word opposite, opposite of what? sounds like we are in agreement. In my Non fiction class, I show the introduction by roger Ebert of graveyard of the fire flies, he captures the notion of animations. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yU3mZT0a9Rw Quoting Paul Ward pw...@aucb.ac.uk: Hi, it's me again! A couple of my main research interests are Animation (quelle surprise!) and Documentary, and I've been looking into how animation and nonfiction work together (or not) for some time now. See Chapter 5 of my book Documentary: The Margins of Reality (Wallflower, 2005); plus Animated interactions: animation aesthetics and the 'interactive' documentary in S. Buchan (ed.) with David Surman and Paul Ward (Associate Eds.) Animated 'Worlds' (John Libbey, 2006). The latter discusses 'Going Equipped' alongside Bob Sabiston's 1999 short 'Snack and Drink' I think the idea of animation as a 'filter' is apposite - it is the filter through which re-presentations of real people and events are 'creatively treated' (to echo John Grierson again). This also makes some interesting possible connections to animation and memory, or animation and states of mind, and how these areas overlap (or contrast) with 'documentary'. Animations like 'Waltz with Bashir', 'Persepolis' or Andy Glynne's short films 'Animated minds' (about mental health) are all, arguably, sub-types of the animated documentary category, but approach it in very different ways best wishes Paul From: empyre-boun...@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au on behalf of christopher sullivan Sent: Sun 14/02/2010 18:22 To: soft_skinned_space; Suzanne Buchan Cc: soft_skinned_space Subject: Re: [-empyre-] CG and all things fuzzy, and some thoughts on ethics Hi Suzanne, thanks for the generous discussion. As a practitioner I will say that I am really not too bothered by the issues of representation, and truth, or authenticity, I think those are interesting points of discussion, but nothing that will ever be cured. but are we really that confused in the theater? I have found that children for instance have very clear understandings of what is real, what is manipulated, what is fantasy. the idea that media is continuously lying to us, can also lead to a lot of political empathy, I teach an alternative animation history class, and one of our weeks we show all non fiction animation. here is the week. Reading: Understanding Animation, chapter 3 Narrative strategies. 68-92 Week 6 October 19th NON FICTION- These films all use animations power to manifest images that have no filmic record. The result is a curious take on truth and representation.. Is there an emotional safety in these cartoony depictions, of otherwise unbearable images? Roger Ebert , speaking about Grave of the Fire flies. John and Faith Hubley. Sample 1960-75 The Dara Dogs. Denise Topicoff. -A is for Autism, Tim Web 1998. Champaine by Michael Sporn. Some Protection, Marjut Rimmenen,1987 -Brother, Adam Benjamin Elliot 2003- Going Equipped ,Peter Lords 1989 -Abductees , Paul Vesters 1998 The Fetishist, Jim Trainer 1998- Ryan, Chris Landrithe 2003 A Room Near By, still life with animated dogs, Paul Ferlinger 2002- 2004 these films all deal with the strange in between possibilities of animation as a filter for truth. I often show Ryan this week also, The students are always interested in discussing the inclusion of Chris Landreth in the film. it is both interesting and problematic, that his desire to implicate the documenter, is also very problematic. does he truly believe that his state of crisis parallels Ryan Larkin, in a SRO facility? I argue that the real issue of representation through animation is not nearly so complicated. and why do we have to create a theoretical censoring bureau, just make the work, and let it hit people, all sloppy and imperfect. do the questions below really need to be brought to some kind of conclusion? is it truly a crisis? The increasing convergence, barrage and resulting pervasiveness of manipulated imagery, including traditional and digital animation, has overwhelmed many of its viewers, and this has pressing philosophical and ethical connotations. In terms of the status of indexicality and truth claims of the visual, in 1998 Elsaesser suggested a crisis was evolving: Any technology that materially affects this status, and digitization would seem to be such a technology, thus puts in crisis deeply-held beliefs about representation and visualization, and many of the discourses - critical, scientific or aesthetic - based on, or formulated in the name of the indexical in our culture, need to be re-examined. as media professors, I think we have to also challenge media literacy Dogma which implies that all viewers are completely at the mercy of the moving image
Re: [-empyre-] CG and all things fuzzy, and some thoughts on ethics
image as it became enhanced or altered by digital technologies has had a profound effect on audiences, a topic thematised by Thomas Elsaesser, Lev Manovich and Siegfried Zielinski, ethical philosopher Jane Bennett (The Enchantment of Modern Life, 2001) and by others who may be on empyre. The increasing convergence, barrage and resulting pervasiveness of manipulated imagery, including traditional and digital animation, has overwhelmed many of its viewers, and this has pressing philosophical and ethical connotations. In terms of the status of indexicality and truth claims of the visual, in 1998 Elsaesser suggested a crisis was evolving: Any technology that materially affects this status, and digitisation would seem to be such a technology, thus puts in crisis deeply-held beliefs about representation and visualization, and many of the discourses – critical, scientific or aesthetic – based on, or formulated in the name of the indexical in our culture, need to be re-examined. (Elsaesser, Thomas, Digital Cinema: Delivery, Event, time, in: Cinema Futures: Cain, Abel or Cable?,1998. Pp. 201-222) While following these debates, I became sensitised to one specific i mpact of manipulated images during a screening of Roland Emmerich's 1994 Independence Day. In the rather naive encounter between the American missionaries and the alien Mother ship we witness a brief moment, only a few frames, when a fireball engulfs the pilot on impact. Now in itself, this is not an unfamiliar scene, and it has been repeated in action and war films to excess. My point here is that the image manipulation was of the 'invisible' sort, i.e. not 'in-your-face' CGI that creates spectacle that is highly aware of its difference to so-called normal perception and representation. The fireball in the cockpit was created to look like live action. So – what's the problem? Well, in that fraction of a second of ID4, an image flashed in my mind that, depending on your generation, may also be indelibly etched in your own.: this 1963 photo by Malcolm Brown http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Th%C3%ADch_Qu?ng_D?c The mental image of this while watching ID4 was an emotional response on my part, a response of what could be described as 'negative empathy' that incited ethical awareness about the inherent 'wrongness' of this scene. This personal example might illustrate why we need articulated critical reactions to films like these, to facilitate a sober understanding of the impact such films are having on our collective sense of ethics. In light of the inane acceptance of violent images just because we are 'used to them' and the role CGI and animation has to play in this, addressing the crisis rooted in the loss of indexical truth could effectively address a re-examination of the discourse around ethical responsibility in image production. Discussions around animation – especially the kind we are not supposed to see – have tended to focus on technical wizardry and the properties of programmes to create the impossible. It may be part of a new body of work for critical investigations of spectatorial manipulation in a digital age, a territory that needs ethical navigation to understand the philosophical consequences of this kind of imagery. The next issue of the ANM journal (5.1) will have an essay by philosopher and cultural studies scholar Elizabeth Walden that explores just these issues and discusses a puppet animation film; she discusses how elements of the narrative structure and the camera work give the materials used in the character’s project a moral standing in the film, which draws audience and filmmaker as well as the character into an ethical situation which is significant to our shared moment in the digital era. So I'll leave this for now, and see if anyone has some thoughts on it. I'm also happy to engage with the Quays' works, if there is interest out there. Suzanne -Original Message- From: empyre-boun...@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au on behalf of Renate Ferro Sent: Sat 2/13/2010 04:37 To: soft_skinned_space Subject: Re: [-empyre-] CG and all things fuzzy Dear Paul and Suzanne, Can you both talk about how CG fits into your animation programs? At Cornell, Computer Graphics and 3D animation is taught by Computing faculty. It is in the art department where students, particularly recently, have been creating stop action, frame by frame, roto-scoping, drawing based and a medley of other fuzzies. Whether working from photography based or original drawing. their novel, quirky rendering styles, interdisciplinary interests and criticality make their work fresh and innovative. How does it work in the UK? Renate Renate Ferro Visiting Assistant Professor Department of Art Cornell University, Tjaden Hall Ithaca, NY 14853
Re: [-empyre-] CG and all things fuzzy
Yello, having your Computer Science Department teach computer animation does seem unusual. I wonder if this is specific to Cornell? This question reminds me of something you (Renate) posted last week when you talked about how you found your students were concentrating too much on the programatic aspects and ignoring whether the final animation was really working? This split is certainly a widespread issue and I find it begins as a consequence of the way that animation software is designed and used. As the discussion is moving more decisively towards problems with the digital I thought I would put down a few thoughts now. When using software there is a strong tendency to animate with the numbers instead of looking at the screen at what is actually happening. So if you want to animate an apple falling onto the ground you know when it has hit the ground because the height value of the bottom of the apple equals the height value of the ground plane. Except that it often doesn't look right. You might have to add shadows or textures or make the ground reverberate in a way that it doesn't actually do in reality. But the student will sometimes say it must be right because the numbers say the apple is on the ground! Another example is anatomy. In computer animation you tend to keep the basic anatomical body the same all the way through because there is something in the rational world of software design that insists that you cannot suddenly loose or gain an arm. But of course traditional animators do this all the time, if characters get into a fight for instance. There are lots of examples like this. My personal issue is with keyframing and the timeline. Keyframing is the most popular way of digitally animating and appears to be a straightforward reflection of traditional practice of keyframes and inbetweening. Except that it isn't because the computer's automation of inbetweening means that these intervals between extreme frames are no longer subject to conscious design as they were when there were people actually drawing them. The result is often a lot of syrupy animation as the software is obliged to smoothly interpolate between as few keyframes as possible. But this isn't a problem with the technology as such. It is perfectly possible to animate manually in most software programs. You could simply just create a keyframe on every frame. But in practice most people don't even think of doing this because that's the computer's job. This isn't really a problem in interface design. It's more to do with the concepts that we are interfacing with (although not exactly that either). The problem is not to resist software as to find a different angle on it. Building your own Open Source software or DIY media is a much talked about option but not open to most people. And in any case, how do I know what I want software to do? Lev has pointed out how some animation qualities like continuous variability of the image arise out of software design. And this software design also supports and extends older practices like the layering of cells that Tom used to describe the qualities of limited animation and the time-image. But all of this is complicated by the fact that the fundamental assumptions of software design are not necessarily constant nor is its conventional usage (hopefully, otherwise we're stuck). It is not a matter of the different technical abilities of software or of how much it costs, but of how easily a technical potential can be perceived by the user in a way that motivates engagement. This is the point at which the techno- aesthetic is worked out - different motifs that permeate technological, social and cultural levels. That's more than I intended to write so that's enough for now. And it's not even my week yet... Richard On 13 Feb 2010, at 04:37, Renate Ferro wrote: Dear Paul and Suzanne, Can you both talk about how CG fits into your animation programs? At Cornell, Computer Graphics and 3D animation is taught by Computing faculty. It is in the art department where students, particularly recently, have been creating stop action, frame by frame, roto- scoping, drawing based and a medley of other fuzzies. Whether working from photography based or original drawing. their novel, quirky rendering styles, interdisciplinary interests and criticality make their work fresh and innovative. How does it work in the UK? Renate ___ empyre forum empyre@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au http://www.subtle.net/empyre
Re: [-empyre-] CG and all things fuzzy, and some thoughts on ethics
Wow! Thank you Thyrza, (and Chris, too) for your sensitive and eloquent posts, and though I'm at a conference, and giving a talk (still being tweaked, alas/of course) I'm aiming to be back 'here' when I can to add a few comments and questions to start embellishing this wonderful tapestry of thoughts and concerns you've posted. Suzanne winmail.dat___ empyre forum empyre@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au http://www.subtle.net/empyre
Re: [-empyre-] CG and all things fuzzy
At eca we have a well established and regarded animation department, a pretty typical model of a UK art school animation department. There are a couple of antique computers in the studio¹s that the students can play about with. Most animation is undertaken using stop motion, clay-mation and drawing. Whereas once the material would have been recorded to film, frame by frame, and after that to video, these days they record direct to hard-drive and finish the work off in Final Cut Pro, editing rushes, synching sound, etc. This latter stage of production is not regarded as where the highest level skills are to be found. Walking around the animation studio¹s it is clear that the key skill that is held higher than any other is drawing. After that, it is motion and how that can be suggested in individual drawings and in tweening. Characterisation is the sought after outcome. But this is a certain type of animation, dominated by models found on TV, in the cinema and more and more in computer games. There are other models of animation (such as that practiced by Larry Cuba, for one). Best Simon Simon Biggs s.bi...@eca.ac.uk si...@littlepig.org.uk Skype: simonbiggsuk http://www.littlepig.org.uk/ Research Professor edinburgh college of art http://www.eca.ac.uk/ Creative Interdisciplinary Research into CoLlaborative Environments http://www.eca.ac.uk/circle/ Electronic Literature as a Model of Creativity and Innovation in Practice http://www.elmcip.net/ From: Renate Ferro r...@cornell.edu Reply-To: soft_skinned_space empyre@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 23:37:32 -0500 (EST) To: soft_skinned_space emp...@gamera.cofa.unsw.edu.au Subject: Re: [-empyre-] CG and all things fuzzy Dear Paul and Suzanne, Can you both talk about how CG fits into your animation programs? At Cornell, Computer Graphics and 3D animation is taught by Computing faculty. It is in the art department where students, particularly recently, have been creating stop action, frame by frame, roto-scoping, drawing based and a medley of other fuzzies. Whether working from photography based or original drawing. their novel, quirky rendering styles, interdisciplinary interests and criticality make their work fresh and innovative. How does it work in the UK? Renate Renate Ferro Visiting Assistant Professor Department of Art Cornell University, Tjaden Hall Ithaca, NY 14853 Email: r...@cornell.edu Website: http://www.renateferro.net Co-moderator of _empyre soft skinned space http://www.subtle.net/empyre http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empyre Art Editor, diacritics http://muse.jhu.edu/journals/dia/ ___ empyre forum empyre@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au http://www.subtle.net/empyre Edinburgh College of Art (eca) is a charity registered in Scotland, number SC009201 ___ empyre forum empyre@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au http://www.subtle.net/empyre
Re: [-empyre-] CG and all things fuzzy, and some thoughts on ethics
by philosopher and cultural studies scholar Elizabeth Walden that explores just these issues and discusses a puppet animation film; she discusses how elements of the narrative structure and the camera work give the materials used in the characters project a moral standing in the film, which draws audience and filmmaker as well as the character into an ethical situation which is significant to our shared moment in the digital era. So I'll leave this for now, and see if anyone has some thoughts on it. I'm also happy to engage with the Quays' works, if there is interest out there. Suzanne -Original Message- From: empyre-boun...@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au on behalf of Renate Ferro Sent: Sat 2/13/2010 04:37 To: soft_skinned_space Subject: Re: [-empyre-] CG and all things fuzzy Dear Paul and Suzanne, Can you both talk about how CG fits into your animation programs? At Cornell, Computer Graphics and 3D animation is taught by Computing faculty. It is in the art department where students, particularly recently, have been creating stop action, frame by frame, roto-scoping, drawing based and a medley of other fuzzies. Whether working from photography based or original drawing. their novel, quirky rendering styles, interdisciplinary interests and criticality make their work fresh and innovative. How does it work in the UK? Renate Renate Ferro Visiting Assistant Professor Department of Art Cornell University, Tjaden Hall Ithaca, NY 14853 Email: r...@cornell.edu Website: http://www.renateferro.net Co-moderator of _empyre soft skinned space http://www.subtle.net/empyre http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empyre Art Editor, diacritics http://muse.jhu.edu/journals/dia/ ___ empyre forum empyre@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au http://www.subtle.net/empyre winmail.dat___ empyre forum empyre@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au http://www.subtle.net/empyre
Re: [-empyre-] CG and all things fuzzy, and some thoughts on ethics
Message- From: empyre-boun...@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au on behalf of Renate Ferro Sent: Sat 2/13/2010 04:37 To: soft_skinned_space Subject: Re: [-empyre-] CG and all things fuzzy Dear Paul and Suzanne, Can you both talk about how CG fits into your animation programs? At Cornell, Computer Graphics and 3D animation is taught by Computing faculty. It is in the art department where students, particularly recently, have been creating stop action, frame by frame, roto-scoping, drawing based and a medley of other fuzzies. Whether working from photography based or original drawing. their novel, quirky rendering styles, interdisciplinary interests and criticality make their work fresh and innovative. How does it work in the UK? Renate Renate Ferro Visiting Assistant Professor Department of Art Cornell University, Tjaden Hall Ithaca, NY 14853 Email: r...@cornell.edu Website: http://www.renateferro.net Co-moderator of _empyre soft skinned space http://www.subtle.net/empyre http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empyre Art Editor, diacritics http://muse.jhu.edu/journals/dia/ ___ empyre forum empyre@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au http://www.subtle.net/empyre Christopher Sullivan Dept. of Film/Video/New Media School of the Art Institute of Chicago 112 so michigan Chicago Ill 60603 csu...@saic.edu 312-345-3802 ___ empyre forum empyre@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au http://www.subtle.net/empyre
Re: [-empyre-] CG and all things fuzzy
Dear Paul and Suzanne, Can you both talk about how CG fits into your animation programs? At Cornell, Computer Graphics and 3D animation is taught by Computing faculty. It is in the art department where students, particularly recently, have been creating stop action, frame by frame, roto-scoping, drawing based and a medley of other fuzzies. Whether working from photography based or original drawing. their novel, quirky rendering styles, interdisciplinary interests and criticality make their work fresh and innovative. How does it work in the UK? Renate Renate Ferro Visiting Assistant Professor Department of Art Cornell University, Tjaden Hall Ithaca, NY 14853 Email: r...@cornell.edu Website: http://www.renateferro.net Co-moderator of _empyre soft skinned space http://www.subtle.net/empyre http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empyre Art Editor, diacritics http://muse.jhu.edu/journals/dia/ ___ empyre forum empyre@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au http://www.subtle.net/empyre
