Re: 3.20 Headline Features
On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 3:59 PM, Allan Day wrote: > 2. A lot of time and effort has gone into Wayland this cycle (and > previous cycles) - it would be good to reflect that in the notes See this. > 3. We need to consider the balance and appearance of the release > headlines in general. If you take out XDG app, what big features do we > have to talk about? > The general app polish and features landed I think are significant. Considerer things like Shortcuts windows add to that. > 4. Is this *the* Wayland moment? I'm particularly thinking about next > release here. If we just missed the mark of being Wayland ready this > cycle, do we still get to say that 3.22 is the big "Wayland is done" > release? If so, we might not want to make such a noise about it this > time round. > A very good point you bring up. Was something I had in mind. In time for the 3.22 release I guess its very likely that *features such as "remote display", "xclipboard proxy", "dnd root window drops" will have landed, hopefully have also the Wayland accessibility story improved. Think it would make more sense to do a bigger push then, yes. *https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Wayland_features describe the features I quote (and more). > 5. My understanding is that Fedora will be promoting the Wayland > session, even if it is not used by default. I wouldn't want GNOME to > miss the train in this regard. > Understand. -- -mvh Oliver Propst ___ engagement-list mailing list engagement-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/engagement-list
Re: 3.20 Headline Features
On Mon, 2016-03-07 at 15:44 +, Allan Day wrote: > Bastien Nocera wrote: > ... > > > > > > > > Redesigned mouse and touchpad settings > > I would put support for "what did you plug in" jack detection and > > support for rfkill keys above that, in terms of hardware > > integration. > I'm not so sure. Mouse and touchpad settings are something that every > user can try and potentially benefit from. There aren't any new features in it. In fact, a number of those features were moved to the Universal Access panel. It would be quite different if we had added a new panel, or redesigned often used ones like the Network or Sound panels. > Jack detection is only used > for some devices, By the majority of Dell laptops. > and many people won't use rfkill keys (if they have > them). Fair enough. ___ engagement-list mailing list engagement-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/engagement-list
Re: 3.20 Headline Features
Hey Allan, Bastien, On Mon, Mar 07, 2016 at 03:47:56PM +, Allan Day wrote: > Bastien Nocera wrote: > ... > > Oh, and the native LibreOffice integration in Documents is probably > > right up there as a major feature/big improvement. > > I'm waiting to get details on how and why that's an improvement from a > user perspective (I asked around the other day, but didn't get an > answer). It would be a help if you could add to: My apologies for dropping the ball on this. > https://wiki.gnome.org/ThreePointNineteen/ReleaseNotes#Documents I have added a brief explanation to the Wiki. Cheers, Rishi pgpGzOfwp93Jn.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ engagement-list mailing list engagement-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/engagement-list
Re: 3.20 Headline Features
Andreas Nilsson wrote: > XDG app isn't particularly a user facing feature at this stage. The most > relevant new feature is the availability of nightly apps [1]. However, these > nightly builds don't get much attention, and they require the command line > to install, so are somewhat technical. In general I don't like selling user > features if they require a terminal! > > I was under the impression that it was possible to install xdg-apps in > Software. Correct. > Or do you mean that you need a terminal in order to set up the > repo? I'd need to double check with Alex, but that's my understanding. I definitely remember him saying you need to use the terminal! :) > There is also the ability to build as xdg-app in Builder, and that has a bit > of UI. More a developer thing though. Could have all the XDG stuff in the > developer section perhaps? That's an option, yes... Allan ___ engagement-list mailing list engagement-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/engagement-list
Re: 3.20 Headline Features
Oliver Propst wrote:
...
>> Wayland is a tricky sell - it is unlikely that distributions will switch
>> to it by default for this release, and there are some missing bits and
>> pieces.
>
> +1, Actually think we should be (very) careful with having Wayland as a
> selling point, right now at least. This fedora mailning list thread provide
> some interesting insights [1], and [2] ("pending section"), which I guess
> motivates why fedora choosed not to enable Wayland by default for its next
> release .
Some things to bear in mind here:
1. For distros where it's available, Wayland will be an opt in feature
that people have to decide to use. They can also turn it off if it
doesn't work for them.
2. A lot of time and effort has gone into Wayland this cycle (and
previous cycles) - it would be good to reflect that in the notes.
3. We need to consider the balance and appearance of the release
headlines in general. If you take out XDG app, what big features do we
have to talk about?
4. Is this *the* Wayland moment? I'm particularly thinking about next
release here. If we just missed the mark of being Wayland ready this
cycle, do we still get to say that 3.22 is the big "Wayland is done"
release? If so, we might not want to make such a noise about it this
time round.
5. My understanding is that Fedora will be promoting the Wayland
session, even if it is not used by default. I wouldn't want GNOME to
miss the train in this regard.
>> XDG app isn't particularly a user facing feature at this stage. The most
>> relevant new feature is the availability of nightly apps [1]. However, these
>> nightly builds don't get much attention, and they require the command line
>> to install, so are somewhat technical. In general I don't like selling user
>> features if they require a terminal!
>
> +1, understand this project is (still) in a very early stage.
We would only ever promote XDG app as something to try out,
particularly for the nightly apps. The infrastructure isn't in place
to recommend it as something that's generally usable.
Allan
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Re: 3.20 Headline Features
Bastien Nocera wrote: ... > Oh, and the native LibreOffice integration in Documents is probably > right up there as a major feature/big improvement. I'm waiting to get details on how and why that's an improvement from a user perspective (I asked around the other day, but didn't get an answer). It would be a help if you could add to: https://wiki.gnome.org/ThreePointNineteen/ReleaseNotes#Documents Allan ___ engagement-list mailing list engagement-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/engagement-list
Re: 3.20 Headline Features
Bastien Nocera wrote: ... > > Redesigned mouse and touchpad settings > > I would put support for "what did you plug in" jack detection and > support for rfkill keys above that, in terms of hardware integration. I'm not so sure. Mouse and touchpad settings are something that every user can try and potentially benefit from. Jack detection is only used for some devices, and many people won't use rfkill keys (if they have them). ... > > Per-application location access controls in the shell and control > > center > > That only works with the xdg-app bundles which you're (rightly) > reluctant to advertise. I didn't think that was the case - I'll double check with Zeeshan. ... > > Wayland is a tricky sell - it is unlikely that distributions will > > switch to it by default for this release, and there are some missing > > bits and pieces. Nevertheless, this is the first release where we can > > recommend using Wayland to the majority of users. > > Not the ones with Wacom tablets yet, FWIW. I know there are limitations, and we'd have to advertise those... Allan ___ engagement-list mailing list engagement-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/engagement-list
Re: 3.20 Headline Features
On Mon, Mar 7, 2016, 3:45 AM Allan Day wrote: > Hi all, > > *Questions and discussion* > >- How do the two pages look in general? > > Looks good especially with the additional suggestions posted on this thread. I might also want to add all the nautilus changes to the font page. There is a number of criticisms that has been addressed there. >- >- Wayland is a tricky sell - it is unlikely that distributions will >switch to it by default for this release, and there are some missing bits >and pieces. Nevertheless, this is the first release where we can recommend >using Wayland to the majority of users. > > I think that talking about wayland from an enabling perspective might be the way to go. Sri ___ engagement-list mailing list engagement-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/engagement-list
Re: 3.20 Headline Features
On 2016-03-07 12:44, Allan Day wrote: * XDG app isn't particularly a user facing feature at this stage. The most relevant new feature is the availability of nightly apps [1]. However, these nightly builds don't get much attention, and they require the command line to install, so are somewhat technical. In general I don't like selling user features if they require a terminal! I was under the impression that it was possible to install xdg-apps in Software. Or do you mean that you need a terminal in order to set up the repo? There is also the ability to build as xdg-app in Builder, and that has a bit of UI. More a developer thing though. Could have all the XDG stuff in the developer section perhaps? - Andreas ___ engagement-list mailing list engagement-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/engagement-list
Re: 3.20 Headline Features
On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 11:44 AM, Allan Day wrote:
>
>
> *Questions and discussion*
>
>-
>- Wayland is a tricky sell - it is unlikely that distributions will
>switch to it by default for this release, and there are some missing bits
>and pieces.
>
> +1, Actually think we should be (very) careful with having Wayland as a
selling point, right now at least. This fedora mailning list thread provide
some interesting insights [1], and [2] ("pending section"), which I guess
motivates why fedora choosed not to enable Wayland by default for its next
release .
1
https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/desktop%40lists.fedoraproject.org/thread/KL4TW7D263BL56HO7RGEODSYFRSTISYX/
2 https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Wayland_features
>
>-
>- XDG app isn't particularly a user facing feature at this stage. The
>most relevant new feature is the availability of nightly apps [1]. However,
>these nightly builds don't get much attention, and they require the command
>line to install, so are somewhat technical. In general I don't like selling
>user features if they require a terminal!
>
> +1, understand this project is (still) in a very early stage.
--
-mvh Oliver Propst
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Re: 3.20 Headline Features
On Mon, 2016-03-07 at 12:55 +0100, Bastien Nocera wrote: > On Mon, 2016-03-07 at 11:44 +, Allan Day wrote: > > > > Hi all, > > > > We are gearing up to write the 3.20 release notes. As usual, there > > will be two pages of headline features, with around 6 headlines per > > page. The first page is supposed to contain our biggest features. > > > > Right now the draft structure looks like this: > > > > Main page > > > > Wayland ready > > XDG app - installable nightly apps > > Operating system upgrades in Software > > Shortcuts windows > > Editing in Photos > > Polari improvements (lots of improvements to list) > > > > Second page > > > > Music controls in the notifications area > > User reviews in Software > > Cantarell improvements > > Redesigned mouse and touchpad settings > I would put support for "what did you plug in" jack detection and > support for rfkill keys above that, in terms of hardware integration. Oh, and the native LibreOffice integration in Documents is probably right up there as a major feature/big improvement. ___ engagement-list mailing list engagement-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/engagement-list
Re: 3.20 Headline Features
On Mon, 2016-03-07 at 11:44 +, Allan Day wrote: > Hi all, > > We are gearing up to write the 3.20 release notes. As usual, there > will be two pages of headline features, with around 6 headlines per > page. The first page is supposed to contain our biggest features. > > Right now the draft structure looks like this: > > Main page > > Wayland ready > XDG app - installable nightly apps > Operating system upgrades in Software > Shortcuts windows > Editing in Photos > Polari improvements (lots of improvements to list) > > Second page > > Music controls in the notifications area > User reviews in Software > Cantarell improvements > Redesigned mouse and touchpad settings I would put support for "what did you plug in" jack detection and support for rfkill keys above that, in terms of hardware integration. > Better Maps app (lots of improvements to list) > Nibbles has been redesigned > > Other possible headlines include: > > Per-application location access controls in the shell and control > center That only works with the xdg-app bundles which you're (rightly) reluctant to advertise. > Questions and discussion > How do the two pages look in general? > Wayland is a tricky sell - it is unlikely that distributions will > switch to it by default for this release, and there are some missing > bits and pieces. Nevertheless, this is the first release where we can > recommend using Wayland to the majority of users. Not the ones with Wacom tablets yet, FWIW. > XDG app isn't particularly a user facing feature at this stage. The > most relevant new feature is the availability of nightly apps [1]. > However, these nightly builds don't get much attention, and they > require the command line to install, so are somewhat technical. In > general I don't like selling user features if they require a > terminal! > Polari is somewhat niche in that it is an IRC client, which raises > the question of how prominently we should promote it. I think that > 3.20 will be a strong release for it though. > Music controls in the notifications area: there's really not very > much to say here. It's not a complex or multifaceted feature. > Cantarell is just a font, so it might seem like a detail to some. The > changes do make a big difference, but will it be noteworthy to our > users? > Allan > > [1] https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/SandboxedApps/NightlyBuilds > ___ > engagement-list mailing list > engagement-list@gnome.org > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/engagement-list ___ engagement-list mailing list engagement-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/engagement-list
3.20 Headline Features
Hi all, We are gearing up to write the 3.20 release notes. As usual, there will be two pages of headline features, with around 6 headlines per page. The first page is supposed to contain our biggest features. Right now the draft structure looks like this: *Main page* Wayland ready XDG app - installable nightly apps Operating system upgrades in Software Shortcuts windows Editing in Photos Polari improvements (lots of improvements to list) *Second page* Music controls in the notifications area User reviews in Software Cantarell improvements Redesigned mouse and touchpad settings Better Maps app (lots of improvements to list) Nibbles has been redesigned Other possible headlines include: Per-application location access controls in the shell and control center *Questions and discussion* - How do the two pages look in general? - Wayland is a tricky sell - it is unlikely that distributions will switch to it by default for this release, and there are some missing bits and pieces. Nevertheless, this is the first release where we can recommend using Wayland to the majority of users. - XDG app isn't particularly a user facing feature at this stage. The most relevant new feature is the availability of nightly apps [1]. However, these nightly builds don't get much attention, and they require the command line to install, so are somewhat technical. In general I don't like selling user features if they require a terminal! - Polari is somewhat niche in that it is an IRC client, which raises the question of how prominently we should promote it. I think that 3.20 will be a strong release for it though. - Music controls in the notifications area: there's really not very much to say here. It's not a complex or multifaceted feature. - Cantarell is just a font, so it might seem like a detail to some. The changes do make a big difference, but will it be noteworthy to our users? Allan [1] https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/SandboxedApps/NightlyBuilds ___ engagement-list mailing list engagement-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/engagement-list
