Re: [E-devel] Fwd: About release, snapshots and openBSD port
My last mail because I'm *amazed* about what this thread became. I never said I was insulted by Raster, I said I'm bored because I got comment on code I did not even write / asked for a review, I was pissed because there was a lot of work already done and the mail raster wrote here was absolutly not representative of it. Please read my first mail again, I will not talk out of my ass, I didn't even know Raster personally, the problem here was mainly the tone. There were a lot a background work, now you are only taking some experimantal patches and keep saying LOOK HOW THAT WAS BAD. armani has a very thin skin and simply got pissed off at someone saying the patches (which many he didn't even write, but he took offence anyway) were bad. Did I said I was insulted in my previous mail ? on IRC ? Did your read what I said ? the breaking of api. that means current openbsd packages have broken api's. No they have not, stop saying that please and go look at the OpenBSD tree. that's what armani, and kakaroto are saying i did. i DIDNT.; read the logs. i'm not apologizing for what i didn't do. Where did I say that ? I'm disapointed. All we did was working in the dark we some people, now you came and did only show the bad stuff to the light (NO EVEN FROM ME), and I simply did not accept that and all the wrong things said here. That only engage me. On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 5:47 AM, Carsten Haitzler ras...@rasterman.com wrote: On Sun, 13 Nov 2011 02:26:00 +0100 Stefan Schmidt ste...@datenfreihafen.org said: Hello. I have not joined any of these flame wares before as I don't think to change anything significant but only start to hurt peoples feelings for each other. But I had to join here as it started to look like a witch hunt on raster here. Please take a moment when reading this. Thanks for your time. On Sat, 2011-11-12 at 13:43, Youness Alaoui wrote: you don't seem to read what I wrote, you ignore the facts.. the facts are not the commits or how bad they were, the facts were your attitude and condescending bullshit. but yeah,you don't seem to be able to acknowledge that, since you're perfect and everyone else is wrong. Great, personal insults are getting us really forward here. This is one of the social skills you are calling here for. Discussing with others without getting into personal insults. Given this mail and the long rant where you behaved like a dick (citation from you) are letting me wonder if you are able to call others for things you do not handle very well on your own. Something to thing about. Thank you Vincent and Gustavo for sharing your concerns about this, and it's too sad that the new contributor has become another victim of raster's poor social skills. That's what I wanted to avoid, that's what I wanted raster to understand, and I was hoping for him to reply with something like sorry if I offended you, that wasn't my purpose and that's it, the guy stays with us, but I guess raster has too much pride and is too self-centered to recognize his own faults. And you wanted that to happen by forcing him into a corner? That is almost always the best recipe to get the opposite of what you wanted. Forcing people trigger over reactions from them. Self protection, naturally for humans. Changing the behaviour of people is a long and exhausting process. Nothing you can do by sending of several mails. And before people even accept what they here from others they need to respect them. Respect them for their doings and ideas they have come up with over time. Again nothing you can achieve in some weeks. I think I will follow Vincent's advice and not reply to this thread anymore, raster clearly showed he has no comprehension of what people are trying to tell him here, so this is just an endless drama with no possible resolution. Black and white thinking all around. Sadly we live in a grey world. Nothing is only black or only white. Lets have a look at what problems we have here and what possible solutions we can come up with. (That what we should aim for in the end, a solution bringing the project forward). Raster is stressed out. Short on time and running at the edge of what is possible for him all the time. Thats a fact and on of the biggest problems here. Stress calls out on people making hard decisions and one of this is being brusque to others. I have observed this a lot at myself when being in stressful times. Family and friends had the pleasure to get me in such a mood. And even after I recognized this at myself (the first step, you know), it is very hard to change at all. Again, behaviour changes are the hardest. The work part of raster stress we can't influence much. He has to handle this on its own. And I personally hope that he realizes how near he comes a actual burnout if he keeps going like this for more months. But now to the things we can change. You and Gustavo are trying to change this
Re: [E-devel] About release, snapshots and openBSD port
Yep, enough word have been said, I'm not interested in pushing diff / process anymore. End of topic. On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 4:11 AM, Carsten Haitzler ras...@rasterman.com wrote: On Fri, 11 Nov 2011 21:43:37 -0500 Youness Alaoui kakar...@kakaroto.homelinux.net said: I don't need to read that (and I have better things to do than fight an endless war on who is right). then this ends this topic. if you don't want to look at the facts, there is no point in this discussion. there is nothing to talk about with you. -- - Codito, ergo sum - I code, therefore I am -- The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler) ras...@rasterman.com -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] About release, snapshots and openBSD port
Hi, On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 8:00 AM, Carsten Haitzler ras...@rasterman.com wrote: On Thu, 10 Nov 2011 18:18:29 +0100 (CET) Vincent Torri vto...@univ-evry.fr said: Hey I'm talking a lot with an openBSD dev, and currently it's very hard for them to follow the changes in the trunk. What they would like to have is snapshots to provide easily patches for the EFL. how is that hard? svn checkout or update instead of wget. u also need to run autogen.sh. Would it be possible to have, during the freeze period, some daily snashots ? It would be nice to fix the openBSD port for the release. open to patches, but none have been submitted. Are you kidding ? I though you were reading the svn log. I take a lot of my time pushing / polishing these diff (special thanks to vtorrin, bluebugs and billiob). So you come from nowhere and make all this work looking bad, here and on irc, that's amazing. if they require tarballs to test and can't just run svn instead to fetch the source... i don't have the time each day to make tarballs when they can just as easily fetch from svn. it's the same work on their part. making tarballs is MORE work on our part. You missed the point, we want to be sure that the final archive will be ok. I'm not asking for snapshot on a daily basis, only some rc before the final archive. (Wait no project did alpha rc, right ?) Note that i discuss also with a Mageia e17 maintainer, and he told me that such snapshots will help him too. a snapshot has no more quality than an svn checkout, so other than a mental block thinking svn == totally unstable/unusable and an unwillingness to use it because of a mental block, i don't see the point. yeah a mental block, I think you don't want to know how many time I have to reroll a dist to get all working and how frustating it is. a release that has had quality assurance done on it is a different matter - but we arent doing them every day. hell no - not with al the efl trees we have. only chance of that is if we stopped having separate libs and just merged them into a single efl tree. Vincent -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel -- - Codito, ergo sum - I code, therefore I am -- The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler) ras...@rasterman.com -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] About release, snapshots and openBSD port
On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 6:42 PM, Carsten Haitzler ras...@rasterman.com wrote: On Fri, 11 Nov 2011 11:47:32 -0500 Youness Alaoui kakar...@kakaroto.homelinux.net said: Reminds me of some of the stuff I've been saying... As for don't have time to do tarballs everyday.. well, that's why there's something called scripts and cron jobs.. those things exist, might be good to use these awesome technologies. hooray for your snide comments. wonderful attitude. you were not there on irc, nor did you even seem to have read the material at hand (the patches). seriously, what's up with you? do i suddenly have to be mr. nice to everything? oh wow! how wonderful! so awesome that you broke evas's api on your openbsd packages. so great to see. we'll love hearing the app developers ask us for help about their apps not working on openbsd, when we will have zero clue that it was an api/abi breakage added specifically on openbsd. that's just awesome. please - make more patches just like that!. if its bad, it's bad. reasons were explicitly given for it being bad. I accept without problem the critisism on these diff (note and look at the commit these are not from me). But that is my personnal git, and it contains experimental diff and these will never go in tree if they are not ok. I never asked a review of these ... But yeah once again you're right, all this work is shit on shit and the OpenBSD team is only capable of breaking your stuff. and as for well just use scripts - have to write and test those too. and if its just a cron job... then its NO BETTER THAN A RANDOM SVN CHECKOUT. that was my point... which you failed to read. if you don't sit down and spend at least some qa time on the tarballs... then its pointless. this is my point on a mental block. i keep hearing it from people omg svn trunk must be so unstable!!! how can i use it? - it's the image that just because its in trunk (or head/master/whatever) that it must be so unstable and a tarball made every day is going to be better. it's a RELEASE process of freezing and fixing just bugs that improves quality... not make dist; scp *.tar.gz if they require tarballs to test and can't just run svn instead to fetch the source... i don't have the time each day to make tarballs when they can just as easily fetch from svn. it's the same work on their part. making tarballs is MORE work on our part. You missed the point, we want to be sure that the final archive will be ok. I'm not asking for snapshot on a daily basis, only some rc before the final archive. (Wait no project did alpha rc, right ?) Note that i discuss also with a Mageia e17 maintainer, and he told me that such snapshots will help him too. a snapshot has no more quality than an svn checkout, so other than a mental block thinking svn == totally unstable/unusable and an unwillingness to use it because of a mental block, i don't see the point. yeah a mental block, I think you don't want to know how many time I have to reroll a dist to get all working and how frustating it is. a release that has had quality assurance done on it is a different matter - but we arent doing them every day. hell no - not with al the efl trees we have. only chance of that is if we stopped having separate libs and just merged them into a single efl tree. Vincent -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel -- - Codito, ergo sum - I code, therefore I am -- The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler) ras...@rasterman.com -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel -- Bruno Dilly Senior Developer ProFUSION embedded systems http://profusion.mobi -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18
