Re: [E-devel] A step to improving communication - Meetings

[The Rasterman]

On Wed, 14 Mar 2018 23:00:44 +1030 Simon Lees  said:

> On Friday, 9 March 2018 21:20:33 ACDT, Carsten Haitzler wrote:
> > On Fri, 9 Mar 2018 10:08:57 +0100 Jonathan Aquilina
> > 
> > said:
> >
> >> Hi Stefan you forgot there is slack and can speak in the
> >> channel on Irc that
> >> way if we have the bot there as well they can join us through slack
> >
> > I heard today slack intends on dropping IRC integration. Also it has
> proven
> > problematic in its integration for addressing people due to the bot-style
> > integration.
> >
> 
> The bot style intergration is all our fault as we are taking an existing
> irc channel and trying to bridge it to slack. If you go the otherway and
> just point your IRC client to the slack channel the intergration is
> really good, i'm using it in a bunch of other places and it has worked
> really well, we just do it wrong. Either way there removing the part
> that worked well not the bot way that we use.

matrix seems to integrate perfectly to an existing irc network and
channels... :) so... there is at least one far better solution there:

matrix.

i took chrisophe's advice and checked it out. it's not too shabby. it's my
current solution for "when away from pc" for irc. :)

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Re: [E-devel] A step to improving communication - Meetings

[Simon Lees]

On Friday, 9 March 2018 21:20:33 ACDT, Carsten Haitzler wrote:
> On Fri, 9 Mar 2018 10:08:57 +0100 Jonathan Aquilina
> 
> said:
>
>> Hi Stefan you forgot there is slack and can speak in the
>> channel on Irc that
>> way if we have the bot there as well they can join us through slack
>
> I heard today slack intends on dropping IRC integration. Also it has
proven
> problematic in its integration for addressing people due to the bot-style
> integration.
>

The bot style intergration is all our fault as we are taking an existing
irc channel and trying to bridge it to slack. If you go the otherway and
just point your IRC client to the slack channel the intergration is
really good, i'm using it in a bunch of other places and it has worked
really well, we just do it wrong. Either way there removing the part
that worked well not the bot way that we use.

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Re: [E-devel] A step to improving communication - Meetings

[Christophe Sadoine]

On 10 March 2018 at 01:03, William L. Thomson Jr.
 wrote:
> On Fri, 9 Mar 2018 10:03:25 +0100
> Stefan Schmidt  wrote:
>
>> Hello.
>>
>>
>> On 03/08/2018 06:40 PM, William L. Thomson Jr. wrote:
>> > One thing I have seen be of benefit in other communities is having
>> > regular meetings.
>> >
>> > It was definitely beneficial to Gentoo Java Team, long ago. This
>> > some what helped create a team, and definitely helped keep people
>> > on the same page, helped with communication, etc. When meetings
>> > ended, so did the team over time. They helped make the team and
>> > broke it...
>> >
>> > Does the E developer community ever meet beyond like EDD? Like
>> > regular monthly meetings in IRC or other?
>>
>> No we don't and I think it is a good idea you brought up here.
>>
>> I think we should try it out and see how it flies for us.
>>
>> I would propose IRC as medium (already heavily in use, suitable for
>> many attendees even if just lurking around, video calls might be
>> awkward and problematic with many attendees)
>
> Gentoo and I think others use IRC for meetings. If done in -edevelop,
> there should not be to much noise. Though good to announce and maybe set
> topic so others joining know a meeting is in progress.
>
>> I would also propose it to be bi-weekly. That misses the nice
>> regularity of weekly meetings, but I think that might be a bit to
>> often. Maybe I am wrong and weeklies would be better. Hard to say.
>
> At minimum monthly, anything more than that maybe hard, but not a bad
> idea. The more you meet and communicate the better. Long as there is
> something to say, progress made, etc.
>
>> Finding the right time slot is problematic though. As far as I see it
>> we might have attendance from US west and east coast, Europe as well
>> as Asia. What should we do about it?
>
> If you go with bi-weekly, or more than monthly. Maybe use 2 different
> time slots. That way people have a chance to catch at least one. May
> split up meetings a bit, but give others a chance at a reasonable time.
>
>
> --
> William L. Thomson Jr.
>
> --
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I sent this email yesterday but it seems it did not get through,:

I also think irc meetings is a good idea and was about to add it to
https://phab.enlightenment.org/T6740
This kind of discussion about the project would be more quickly done
with an irc meeting.

if timezones are a problem, there could be an alternative schedule
like blender is doing :
https://wiki.blender.org/index.php/Dev:Doc/Contact#Weekly_Meetings
This way it also becomes bi-weekly for people.

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Re: [E-devel] A step to improving communication - Meetings

[William L. Thomson Jr.]

On Fri, 9 Mar 2018 10:03:25 +0100
Stefan Schmidt  wrote:

> Hello.
> 
> 
> On 03/08/2018 06:40 PM, William L. Thomson Jr. wrote:
> > One thing I have seen be of benefit in other communities is having
> > regular meetings.
> >
> > It was definitely beneficial to Gentoo Java Team, long ago. This
> > some what helped create a team, and definitely helped keep people
> > on the same page, helped with communication, etc. When meetings
> > ended, so did the team over time. They helped make the team and
> > broke it...
> >
> > Does the E developer community ever meet beyond like EDD? Like
> > regular monthly meetings in IRC or other?  
> 
> No we don't and I think it is a good idea you brought up here.
> 
> I think we should try it out and see how it flies for us.
> 
> I would propose IRC as medium (already heavily in use, suitable for
> many attendees even if just lurking around, video calls might be
> awkward and problematic with many attendees)

Gentoo and I think others use IRC for meetings. If done in -edevelop,
there should not be to much noise. Though good to announce and maybe set
topic so others joining know a meeting is in progress.

> I would also propose it to be bi-weekly. That misses the nice
> regularity of weekly meetings, but I think that might be a bit to
> often. Maybe I am wrong and weeklies would be better. Hard to say.

At minimum monthly, anything more than that maybe hard, but not a bad
idea. The more you meet and communicate the better. Long as there is
something to say, progress made, etc.

> Finding the right time slot is problematic though. As far as I see it
> we might have attendance from US west and east coast, Europe as well
> as Asia. What should we do about it?

If you go with bi-weekly, or more than monthly. Maybe use 2 different
time slots. That way people have a chance to catch at least one. May
split up meetings a bit, but give others a chance at a reasonable time.


-- 
William L. Thomson Jr.


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Re: [E-devel] A step to improving communication - Meetings

[William L. Thomson Jr.]

On Fri, 9 Mar 2018 17:37:07 +0900
Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman)  wrote:

> On Thu, 8 Mar 2018 12:40:29 -0500 "William L. Thomson Jr."
>  said:
> 
> > One thing I have seen be of benefit in other communities is having
> > regular meetings.
> > 
> > It was definitely beneficial to Gentoo Java Team, long ago. This
> > some what helped create a team, and definitely helped keep people
> > on the same page, helped with communication, etc. When meetings
> > ended, so did the team over time. They helped make the team and
> > broke it...
> > 
> > Does the E developer community ever meet beyond like EDD? Like
> > regular monthly meetings in IRC or other?
> > 
> > Even if no other organization beyond that, I think it would help
> > with communication all around. I think that would be helpful step
> > if not done currently. That is not only good for current
> > developers, but users, and looky-loos.  
> 
> in general i think this is good. it suffers from a few issues:
> 
> 1. timezone.

That can be tricky for sure!

> 2. agenda (someone has to keep coming up with one to at least get the
> ball rolling, even if there is nothing in particular to discuss)

One thing that worked well in my experience was just a regular check in
at meeting and status updates

 - What are you working on?
 - What do you plan to work on in the next month?
 - Current state of things you are working on or in your area of
   expertise.
 - How much time do you think you have to contribute in next month?

Maybe some other general stuff. Those tend to be more communication
related, to keep others informed and members talking about the stuff
they are working on with others.

> 3. not just timezone but people finding time out of their daily lives
> for the meeting regardless of the time of day for them (it's in the
> middle of diner, lunch, at work, etc. etc.)

That is hard.

> i'm all happy with such meetings. but keeping them going with people
> widely spaced around the world it hard.

They are not easy, but good to have. Even then need to publish like
minutes or summary of the meeting for others.

-- 
William L. Thomson Jr.


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Re: [E-devel] A step to improving communication - Meetings

[Vinícius dos Santos Oliveira]

2018-03-09 6:53 GMT-03:00 Simon Lees :

> Slack is now in the process of killing there irc bridge so this won't
> work for much longer, goodbye slack. (The bots are terrible you have no
> idea who's actually active in the other chat room).
>

It's possible to join Freenode through the matrix network. matrix.org hosts
a bridge to Freenode.

Once you join the matrix network, you can setup more bridges to Slack,
Discord, gitter, Telegram and others. I used this method to glue the
networks (Telegram, Discord and IRC) of a programming group of mine. It was
pretty easy and I didn't need to setup any server (although a gitter bridge
will require me to do so).

So you guys can have Slack, but IRC users can continue to use IRC through
Freenode as always.


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Re: [E-devel] A step to improving communication - Meetings

[Daniel Kolesa]

On Fri, Mar 9, 2018, at 15:01, Christophe Sadoine wrote:
> On 9 March 2018 at 22:10, Jonathan Aquilina  wrote:
> > There is another option which Allows text and voice communications and that 
> > is discord. Thoughts on that?
> 
> Like slack, discord is not foss. Use proprietary stuff and it will
> bite you in the ass sooner or later.

Also, use something requiring either web interface or an Electron app, and that 
"it" will be me ;)

But yeah, I think IRC is fine for this.

> Enlightenment is a foss project and should *imho* strive to
> use/promote other foss projects if possible.
> Also I think text/irc sould be enough for meetings?
> 
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Re: [E-devel] A step to improving communication - Meetings

[Christophe Sadoine]

On 9 March 2018 at 22:10, Jonathan Aquilina  wrote:
> There is another option which Allows text and voice communications and that 
> is discord. Thoughts on that?

Like slack, discord is not foss. Use proprietary stuff and it will
bite you in the ass sooner or later.
Enlightenment is a foss project and should *imho* strive to
use/promote other foss projects if possible.
Also I think text/irc sould be enough for meetings?

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Re: [E-devel] A step to improving communication - Meetings

[Jonathan Aquilina]

There is another option which Allows text and voice communications and that is 
discord. Thoughts on that?

Sent from my iPhone

> On 09 Mar 2018, at 10:53, Simon Lees  wrote:
> 
> Slack is now in the process of killing there irc bridge so this won't
> work for much longer, goodbye slack. (The bots are terrible you have no
> idea who's actually active in the other chat room).
> 
>> On 09/03/18 20:07, Jérémy Zurcher wrote:
>> smack slack !!
>> 
>> https://get.slack.help/hc/en-us/articles/201727913-Connect-to-Slack-over-IRC-and-XMPP
>> 
>> long life to irc clients 
>> 
>>> On Friday 09 March 2018  10:08, Jonathan Aquilina wrote :
>>> Hi Stefan you forgot there is slack and can speak in the channel on Irc 
>>> that way if we have the bot there as well they can join us through slack
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On 09 Mar 2018, at 10:03, Stefan Schmidt  wrote:
 
 Hello.
 
 
> On 03/08/2018 06:40 PM, William L. Thomson Jr. wrote:
> One thing I have seen be of benefit in other communities is having
> regular meetings.
> 
> It was definitely beneficial to Gentoo Java Team, long ago. This some
> what helped create a team, and definitely helped keep people on the same
> page, helped with communication, etc. When meetings ended, so did the
> team over time. They helped make the team and broke it...
> 
> Does the E developer community ever meet beyond like EDD? Like regular
> monthly meetings in IRC or other?
 
 No we don't and I think it is a good idea you brought up here.
 
 I think we should try it out and see how it flies for us.
 
 I would propose IRC as medium (already heavily in use, suitable for many 
 attendees even if just lurking around, video calls might be awkward
 and problematic with many attendees)
 
 I would also propose it to be bi-weekly. That misses the nice regularity 
 of weekly meetings, but I think that might be a bit to often. Maybe
 I am wrong and weeklies would be better. Hard to say.
 
 Finding the right time slot is problematic though. As far as I see it we 
 might have attendance from US west and east coast, Europe as well
 as Asia. What should we do about it?
 
 regards
 Stefan Schmidt
 
 --
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 ___
 enlightenment-devel mailing list
 enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
 https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
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>> --- Hell'O from Yverdoom
>> 
>> Jérémy (jeyzu)
>> 
>> --
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>> 
> 
> -- 
> 
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Re: [E-devel] A step to improving communication - Meetings

[The Rasterman]

On Fri, 9 Mar 2018 10:08:57 +0100 Jonathan Aquilina 
said:

> Hi Stefan you forgot there is slack and can speak in the channel on Irc that
> way if we have the bot there as well they can join us through slack

I heard today slack intends on dropping IRC integration. Also it has proven
problematic in its integration for addressing people due to the bot-style
integration.

I might suggest people look at matrix instead of slack. it integrates far
better if you're not going to use normal IRC.

> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> > On 09 Mar 2018, at 10:03, Stefan Schmidt  wrote:
> > 
> > Hello.
> > 
> > 
> >> On 03/08/2018 06:40 PM, William L. Thomson Jr. wrote:
> >> One thing I have seen be of benefit in other communities is having
> >> regular meetings.
> >> 
> >> It was definitely beneficial to Gentoo Java Team, long ago. This some
> >> what helped create a team, and definitely helped keep people on the same
> >> page, helped with communication, etc. When meetings ended, so did the
> >> team over time. They helped make the team and broke it...
> >> 
> >> Does the E developer community ever meet beyond like EDD? Like regular
> >> monthly meetings in IRC or other?
> > 
> > No we don't and I think it is a good idea you brought up here.
> > 
> > I think we should try it out and see how it flies for us.
> > 
> > I would propose IRC as medium (already heavily in use, suitable for many
> > attendees even if just lurking around, video calls might be awkward and
> > problematic with many attendees)
> > 
> > I would also propose it to be bi-weekly. That misses the nice regularity of
> > weekly meetings, but I think that might be a bit to often. Maybe I am wrong
> > and weeklies would be better. Hard to say.
> > 
> > Finding the right time slot is problematic though. As far as I see it we
> > might have attendance from US west and east coast, Europe as well as Asia.
> > What should we do about it?
> > 
> > regards
> > Stefan Schmidt
> > 
> > --
> > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
> 
> 
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Re: [E-devel] A step to improving communication - Meetings

[Simon Lees]

Slack is now in the process of killing there irc bridge so this won't
work for much longer, goodbye slack. (The bots are terrible you have no
idea who's actually active in the other chat room).

On 09/03/18 20:07, Jérémy Zurcher wrote:
> smack slack !!
> 
> https://get.slack.help/hc/en-us/articles/201727913-Connect-to-Slack-over-IRC-and-XMPP
> 
> long life to irc clients 
> 
> On Friday 09 March 2018  10:08, Jonathan Aquilina wrote :
>> Hi Stefan you forgot there is slack and can speak in the channel on Irc that 
>> way if we have the bot there as well they can join us through slack
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On 09 Mar 2018, at 10:03, Stefan Schmidt  wrote:
>>>
>>> Hello.
>>>
>>>
 On 03/08/2018 06:40 PM, William L. Thomson Jr. wrote:
 One thing I have seen be of benefit in other communities is having
 regular meetings.

 It was definitely beneficial to Gentoo Java Team, long ago. This some
 what helped create a team, and definitely helped keep people on the same
 page, helped with communication, etc. When meetings ended, so did the
 team over time. They helped make the team and broke it...

 Does the E developer community ever meet beyond like EDD? Like regular
 monthly meetings in IRC or other?
>>>
>>> No we don't and I think it is a good idea you brought up here.
>>>
>>> I think we should try it out and see how it flies for us.
>>>
>>> I would propose IRC as medium (already heavily in use, suitable for many 
>>> attendees even if just lurking around, video calls might be awkward
>>> and problematic with many attendees)
>>>
>>> I would also propose it to be bi-weekly. That misses the nice regularity of 
>>> weekly meetings, but I think that might be a bit to often. Maybe
>>> I am wrong and weeklies would be better. Hard to say.
>>>
>>> Finding the right time slot is problematic though. As far as I see it we 
>>> might have attendance from US west and east coast, Europe as well
>>> as Asia. What should we do about it?
>>>
>>> regards
>>> Stefan Schmidt
>>>
>>> --
>>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>>> ___
>>> enlightenment-devel mailing list
>>> enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
>>
>>
>> --
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> 
> Jérémy (jeyzu)
> 
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Re: [E-devel] A step to improving communication - Meetings

[The Rasterman]

On Thu, 8 Mar 2018 12:40:29 -0500 "William L. Thomson Jr."
 said:

> One thing I have seen be of benefit in other communities is having
> regular meetings.
> 
> It was definitely beneficial to Gentoo Java Team, long ago. This some
> what helped create a team, and definitely helped keep people on the same
> page, helped with communication, etc. When meetings ended, so did the
> team over time. They helped make the team and broke it...
> 
> Does the E developer community ever meet beyond like EDD? Like regular
> monthly meetings in IRC or other?
> 
> Even if no other organization beyond that, I think it would help with
> communication all around. I think that would be helpful step if not
> done currently. That is not only good for current developers, but
> users, and looky-loos.

in general i think this is good. it suffers from a few issues:

1. timezone.
2. agenda (someone has to keep coming up with one to at least get the ball
rolling, even if there is nothing in particular to discuss)
3. not just timezone but people finding time out of their daily lives for the
meeting regardless of the time of day for them (it's in the middle of diner,
lunch, at work, etc. etc.)

i'm all happy with such meetings. but keeping them going with people widely
spaced around the world it hard.


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Re: [E-devel] A step to improving communication - Meetings

[Jérémy Zurcher]

smack slack !!

https://get.slack.help/hc/en-us/articles/201727913-Connect-to-Slack-over-IRC-and-XMPP

long life to irc clients 

On Friday 09 March 2018  10:08, Jonathan Aquilina wrote :
> Hi Stefan you forgot there is slack and can speak in the channel on Irc that 
> way if we have the bot there as well they can join us through slack
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> > On 09 Mar 2018, at 10:03, Stefan Schmidt  wrote:
> > 
> > Hello.
> > 
> > 
> >> On 03/08/2018 06:40 PM, William L. Thomson Jr. wrote:
> >> One thing I have seen be of benefit in other communities is having
> >> regular meetings.
> >> 
> >> It was definitely beneficial to Gentoo Java Team, long ago. This some
> >> what helped create a team, and definitely helped keep people on the same
> >> page, helped with communication, etc. When meetings ended, so did the
> >> team over time. They helped make the team and broke it...
> >> 
> >> Does the E developer community ever meet beyond like EDD? Like regular
> >> monthly meetings in IRC or other?
> > 
> > No we don't and I think it is a good idea you brought up here.
> > 
> > I think we should try it out and see how it flies for us.
> > 
> > I would propose IRC as medium (already heavily in use, suitable for many 
> > attendees even if just lurking around, video calls might be awkward
> > and problematic with many attendees)
> > 
> > I would also propose it to be bi-weekly. That misses the nice regularity of 
> > weekly meetings, but I think that might be a bit to often. Maybe
> > I am wrong and weeklies would be better. Hard to say.
> > 
> > Finding the right time slot is problematic though. As far as I see it we 
> > might have attendance from US west and east coast, Europe as well
> > as Asia. What should we do about it?
> > 
> > regards
> > Stefan Schmidt
> > 
> > --
> > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> > ___
> > enlightenment-devel mailing list
> > enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
> 
> 
> --
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--- Hell'O from Yverdoom

Jérémy (jeyzu)

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Re: [E-devel] A step to improving communication - Meetings

[Jonathan Aquilina]

Hi Stefan you forgot there is slack and can speak in the channel on Irc that 
way if we have the bot there as well they can join us through slack

Sent from my iPhone

> On 09 Mar 2018, at 10:03, Stefan Schmidt  wrote:
> 
> Hello.
> 
> 
>> On 03/08/2018 06:40 PM, William L. Thomson Jr. wrote:
>> One thing I have seen be of benefit in other communities is having
>> regular meetings.
>> 
>> It was definitely beneficial to Gentoo Java Team, long ago. This some
>> what helped create a team, and definitely helped keep people on the same
>> page, helped with communication, etc. When meetings ended, so did the
>> team over time. They helped make the team and broke it...
>> 
>> Does the E developer community ever meet beyond like EDD? Like regular
>> monthly meetings in IRC or other?
> 
> No we don't and I think it is a good idea you brought up here.
> 
> I think we should try it out and see how it flies for us.
> 
> I would propose IRC as medium (already heavily in use, suitable for many 
> attendees even if just lurking around, video calls might be awkward
> and problematic with many attendees)
> 
> I would also propose it to be bi-weekly. That misses the nice regularity of 
> weekly meetings, but I think that might be a bit to often. Maybe
> I am wrong and weeklies would be better. Hard to say.
> 
> Finding the right time slot is problematic though. As far as I see it we 
> might have attendance from US west and east coast, Europe as well
> as Asia. What should we do about it?
> 
> regards
> Stefan Schmidt
> 
> --
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> ___
> enlightenment-devel mailing list
> enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel


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Re: [E-devel] A step to improving communication - Meetings

[Stefan Schmidt]

Hello.


On 03/08/2018 06:40 PM, William L. Thomson Jr. wrote:
> One thing I have seen be of benefit in other communities is having
> regular meetings.
>
> It was definitely beneficial to Gentoo Java Team, long ago. This some
> what helped create a team, and definitely helped keep people on the same
> page, helped with communication, etc. When meetings ended, so did the
> team over time. They helped make the team and broke it...
>
> Does the E developer community ever meet beyond like EDD? Like regular
> monthly meetings in IRC or other?

No we don't and I think it is a good idea you brought up here.

I think we should try it out and see how it flies for us.

I would propose IRC as medium (already heavily in use, suitable for many 
attendees even if just lurking around, video calls might be awkward
and problematic with many attendees)

I would also propose it to be bi-weekly. That misses the nice regularity of 
weekly meetings, but I think that might be a bit to often. Maybe
I am wrong and weeklies would be better. Hard to say.

Finding the right time slot is problematic though. As far as I see it we might 
have attendance from US west and east coast, Europe as well
as Asia. What should we do about it?

regards
Stefan Schmidt

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[E-devel] A step to improving communication - Meetings

[William L. Thomson Jr.]

One thing I have seen be of benefit in other communities is having
regular meetings.

It was definitely beneficial to Gentoo Java Team, long ago. This some
what helped create a team, and definitely helped keep people on the same
page, helped with communication, etc. When meetings ended, so did the
team over time. They helped make the team and broke it...

Does the E developer community ever meet beyond like EDD? Like regular
monthly meetings in IRC or other?

Even if no other organization beyond that, I think it would help with
communication all around. I think that would be helpful step if not
done currently. That is not only good for current developers, but
users, and looky-loos.

-- 
William L. Thomson Jr.


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