Re: [e-users] Frustrating clipboard.
On Tue, 4 Oct 2022 13:35:18 +0200 Massimo Maiurana said: > Carsten Haitzler ha scritto il 04/10/22 alle 10:57: > > On Tue, 4 Oct 2022 10:27:35 +0200 Pierre Couderc via enlightenment-users > > said: > > > >> On 10/2/22 19:37, Carsten Haitzler wrote: > >>> On Sat, 1 Oct 2022 07:48:29 +0200 Pierre Couderc via enlightenment-users > >>> said: > >>> > If I copy data in the clipboard, then I close the application, then I > try to paste, my clipboard has disappeared... Why ? How to keep the > clipboard...? > >>> this is normal in x - copy & paste is a transaction between 2 clients. > >>> "copy" or "cut" simply has the source app own the selection - it says it > >>> owns it. when you paste the target app you paste in then requests the data > >>> from the source app (they negotiate a common format) then the data is > >>> transferred. if the original app is gone - this transaction cannot take > >>> place as the selection owner is gone and no negotiation and transfer can > >>> happen.n this has been x11 selections (and wayland too) ever since day 0. > >>> > >>> you could try a clipboard manager that basically pasts to itself whenever > >>> it sees a new selection owner and then stores this... and it becomes the > >>> selection owner... > >>> > >>> > >> > >> Thank you very much for the explanation. > >> > >> So I have tried diodon, but it does not work. Do someone use a clipboard > >> manager and can someone suggest me one...? > >> > >> As a more general problem, is there a page giving a list of recommended > >> program tested to be well working with e? > > > > no list - but just asking questions is a great way to work stuff out. i dont > > run any services myself that are not proper dependencies of e (xorg server, > > acpid (necessary for any acpi based system - basically any pc), connman for > > network (important if you want proper network control with native e > > support), bluez for bt (optional - but imho very important for any bt > > device support), > > Actually native E support is limited to bluez5, for bluez4 you have to > rely on blueman. bluez4 is deprecated and pretty much dead unless you'd never updated your system for like 10 years. in which case you wouldn't have updated e either as everything is ancient :) > > pulseaudio for audio mixing/control (if you have an audio device - just use > > pulse - pipewire should work too if you also install the pipewire pulse > > compatibility), > > I can confirm that pipewire-pulse works. > > packagekit (optional for e's package manager integration > > support), dbus for a lot of the above is needed as well as other services e > > might offer. in this day having a system without dbus and dbus-launch with a > > session bus is highly unusual and not what a normal user would do - unless > > they are trying to be too smart for their own good. > > > > i don't use a clipboard manager - i just paste when the app is still > > there... :) i've been doing this for many decades now... > > > >> I see the problem on another thread, a user wants to install e, but > >> she needs too xorg. Sure it is normal. And she needs too to start dbus, > >> it is dbus-x11 in debian... It is not simple nor basic to know that all > >> this is necessary... > > > > e will launch dbus if needed, but e can't just install it for you... yes > > dbus-x11 is this on some distros. on arch dbus-launch is just part of the > > dbus package and not separate. this is a matter for packagers to package > > all the dependencies right. same for xorg. debian (and debian based) > > distros make this very much more complex as they like to split up packages > > a lot and thus require you to install a longer list of them. arch tends to > > package more simply and thus you need to install fewer, but each package > > has more things in it that you might not totally need. but again - a matter > > for packagers to do this and list dependencies or recommendations or create > > meta-packages (e.g. enlightenment-x11, enlightenment-wl that both depend on > > enlightenment and then also pull in e.g. xorg, dbus-x11 for > > enlightenment-x11). you could argue debian should just have dbus by default > > all the time and ALWAYS ensure users have a system and session dbus on any > > kind of login as otherwise you have a crippled system (at least for desktop > > etc. usage). to a large extent your issues are a packaging and distro > > problem. > > > > perhaps i should do the above as part of enlightenment packaging in arch and > > make meta-packages. it won't help you on debian though... > > -- - Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" -- Carsten Haitzler - ras...@rasterman.com ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] Frustrating clipboard.
Carsten Haitzler ha scritto il 04/10/22 alle 10:57: On Tue, 4 Oct 2022 10:27:35 +0200 Pierre Couderc via enlightenment-users said: On 10/2/22 19:37, Carsten Haitzler wrote: On Sat, 1 Oct 2022 07:48:29 +0200 Pierre Couderc via enlightenment-users said: If I copy data in the clipboard, then I close the application, then I try to paste, my clipboard has disappeared... Why ? How to keep the clipboard...? this is normal in x - copy & paste is a transaction between 2 clients. "copy" or "cut" simply has the source app own the selection - it says it owns it. when you paste the target app you paste in then requests the data from the source app (they negotiate a common format) then the data is transferred. if the original app is gone - this transaction cannot take place as the selection owner is gone and no negotiation and transfer can happen.n this has been x11 selections (and wayland too) ever since day 0. you could try a clipboard manager that basically pasts to itself whenever it sees a new selection owner and then stores this... and it becomes the selection owner... Thank you very much for the explanation. So I have tried diodon, but it does not work. Do someone use a clipboard manager and can someone suggest me one...? As a more general problem, is there a page giving a list of recommended program tested to be well working with e? no list - but just asking questions is a great way to work stuff out. i dont run any services myself that are not proper dependencies of e (xorg server, acpid (necessary for any acpi based system - basically any pc), connman for network (important if you want proper network control with native e support), bluez for bt (optional - but imho very important for any bt device support), Actually native E support is limited to bluez5, for bluez4 you have to rely on blueman. pulseaudio for audio mixing/control (if you have an audio device - just use pulse - pipewire should work too if you also install the pipewire pulse compatibility), I can confirm that pipewire-pulse works. packagekit (optional for e's package manager integration support), dbus for a lot of the above is needed as well as other services e might offer. in this day having a system without dbus and dbus-launch with a session bus is highly unusual and not what a normal user would do - unless they are trying to be too smart for their own good. i don't use a clipboard manager - i just paste when the app is still there... :) i've been doing this for many decades now... I see the problem on another thread, a user wants to install e, but she needs too xorg. Sure it is normal. And she needs too to start dbus, it is dbus-x11 in debian... It is not simple nor basic to know that all this is necessary... e will launch dbus if needed, but e can't just install it for you... yes dbus-x11 is this on some distros. on arch dbus-launch is just part of the dbus package and not separate. this is a matter for packagers to package all the dependencies right. same for xorg. debian (and debian based) distros make this very much more complex as they like to split up packages a lot and thus require you to install a longer list of them. arch tends to package more simply and thus you need to install fewer, but each package has more things in it that you might not totally need. but again - a matter for packagers to do this and list dependencies or recommendations or create meta-packages (e.g. enlightenment-x11, enlightenment-wl that both depend on enlightenment and then also pull in e.g. xorg, dbus-x11 for enlightenment-x11). you could argue debian should just have dbus by default all the time and ALWAYS ensure users have a system and session dbus on any kind of login as otherwise you have a crippled system (at least for desktop etc. usage). to a large extent your issues are a packaging and distro problem. perhaps i should do the above as part of enlightenment packaging in arch and make meta-packages. it won't help you on debian though... ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] Frustrating clipboard.
CopyQ is a decent clipboard manager and should work ok in enlightenment. On Tue, Oct 4, 2022 at 4:58 AM Carsten Haitzler wrote: > On Tue, 4 Oct 2022 10:27:35 +0200 Pierre Couderc via enlightenment-users > said: > > > On 10/2/22 19:37, Carsten Haitzler wrote: > > > On Sat, 1 Oct 2022 07:48:29 +0200 Pierre Couderc via > enlightenment-users > > > said: > > > > > >> If I copy data in the clipboard, then I close the application, then I > > >> try to paste, my clipboard has disappeared... Why ? How to keep the > > >> clipboard...? > > > this is normal in x - copy & paste is a transaction between 2 clients. > > > "copy" or "cut" simply has the source app own the selection - it says > it > > > owns it. when you paste the target app you paste in then requests the > data > > > from the source app (they negotiate a common format) then the data is > > > transferred. if the original app is gone - this transaction cannot take > > > place as the selection owner is gone and no negotiation and transfer > can > > > happen.n this has been x11 selections (and wayland too) ever since day > 0. > > > > > > you could try a clipboard manager that basically pasts to itself > whenever it > > > sees a new selection owner and then stores this... and it becomes the > > > selection owner... > > > > > > > > > > Thank you very much for the explanation. > > > > So I have tried diodon, but it does not work. Do someone use a clipboard > > manager and can someone suggest me one...? > > > > As a more general problem, is there a page giving a list of recommended > > program tested to be well working with e? > > no list - but just asking questions is a great way to work stuff out. i > dont > run any services myself that are not proper dependencies of e (xorg server, > acpid (necessary for any acpi based system - basically any pc), connman for > network (important if you want proper network control with native e > support), > bluez for bt (optional - but imho very important for any bt device > support), > pulseaudio for audio mixing/control (if you have an audio device - just use > pulse - pipewire should work too if you also install the pipewire pulse > compatibility), packagekit (optional for e's package manager integration > support), dbus for a lot of the above is needed as well as other services e > might offer. in this day having a system without dbus and dbus-launch with > a > session bus is highly unusual and not what a normal user would do - unless > they > are trying to be too smart for their own good. > > i don't use a clipboard manager - i just paste when the app is still > there... :) i've been doing this for many decades now... > > > I see the problem on another thread, a user wants to install e, but > > she needs too xorg. Sure it is normal. And she needs too to start dbus, > > it is dbus-x11 in debian... It is not simple nor basic to know that all > > this is necessary... > > e will launch dbus if needed, but e can't just install it for you... yes > dbus-x11 is this on some distros. on arch dbus-launch is just part of the > dbus package and not separate. this is a matter for packagers to package > all the > dependencies right. same for xorg. debian (and debian based) distros make > this > very much more complex as they like to split up packages a lot and thus > require > you to install a longer list of them. arch tends to package more simply and > thus you need to install fewer, but each package has more things in it > that you > might not totally need. but again - a matter for packagers to do this and > list > dependencies or recommendations or create meta-packages (e.g. > enlightenment-x11, enlightenment-wl that both depend on enlightenment and > then > also pull in e.g. xorg, dbus-x11 for enlightenment-x11). you could argue > debian > should just have dbus by default all the time and ALWAYS ensure users > have a > system and session dbus on any kind of login as otherwise you have a > crippled > system (at least for desktop etc. usage). to a large extent your issues > are a > packaging and distro problem. > > perhaps i should do the above as part of enlightenment packaging in arch > and > make meta-packages. it won't help you on debian though... > > -- > - Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" -- > Carsten Haitzler - ras...@rasterman.com > > > > ___ > enlightenment-users mailing list > enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users > ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] Frustrating clipboard.
On Tue, 4 Oct 2022 10:27:35 +0200 Pierre Couderc via enlightenment-users said: > On 10/2/22 19:37, Carsten Haitzler wrote: > > On Sat, 1 Oct 2022 07:48:29 +0200 Pierre Couderc via enlightenment-users > > said: > > > >> If I copy data in the clipboard, then I close the application, then I > >> try to paste, my clipboard has disappeared... Why ? How to keep the > >> clipboard...? > > this is normal in x - copy & paste is a transaction between 2 clients. > > "copy" or "cut" simply has the source app own the selection - it says it > > owns it. when you paste the target app you paste in then requests the data > > from the source app (they negotiate a common format) then the data is > > transferred. if the original app is gone - this transaction cannot take > > place as the selection owner is gone and no negotiation and transfer can > > happen.n this has been x11 selections (and wayland too) ever since day 0. > > > > you could try a clipboard manager that basically pasts to itself whenever it > > sees a new selection owner and then stores this... and it becomes the > > selection owner... > > > > > > Thank you very much for the explanation. > > So I have tried diodon, but it does not work. Do someone use a clipboard > manager and can someone suggest me one...? > > As a more general problem, is there a page giving a list of recommended > program tested to be well working with e? no list - but just asking questions is a great way to work stuff out. i dont run any services myself that are not proper dependencies of e (xorg server, acpid (necessary for any acpi based system - basically any pc), connman for network (important if you want proper network control with native e support), bluez for bt (optional - but imho very important for any bt device support), pulseaudio for audio mixing/control (if you have an audio device - just use pulse - pipewire should work too if you also install the pipewire pulse compatibility), packagekit (optional for e's package manager integration support), dbus for a lot of the above is needed as well as other services e might offer. in this day having a system without dbus and dbus-launch with a session bus is highly unusual and not what a normal user would do - unless they are trying to be too smart for their own good. i don't use a clipboard manager - i just paste when the app is still there... :) i've been doing this for many decades now... > I see the problem on another thread, a user wants to install e, but > she needs too xorg. Sure it is normal. And she needs too to start dbus, > it is dbus-x11 in debian... It is not simple nor basic to know that all > this is necessary... e will launch dbus if needed, but e can't just install it for you... yes dbus-x11 is this on some distros. on arch dbus-launch is just part of the dbus package and not separate. this is a matter for packagers to package all the dependencies right. same for xorg. debian (and debian based) distros make this very much more complex as they like to split up packages a lot and thus require you to install a longer list of them. arch tends to package more simply and thus you need to install fewer, but each package has more things in it that you might not totally need. but again - a matter for packagers to do this and list dependencies or recommendations or create meta-packages (e.g. enlightenment-x11, enlightenment-wl that both depend on enlightenment and then also pull in e.g. xorg, dbus-x11 for enlightenment-x11). you could argue debian should just have dbus by default all the time and ALWAYS ensure users have a system and session dbus on any kind of login as otherwise you have a crippled system (at least for desktop etc. usage). to a large extent your issues are a packaging and distro problem. perhaps i should do the above as part of enlightenment packaging in arch and make meta-packages. it won't help you on debian though... -- - Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" -- Carsten Haitzler - ras...@rasterman.com ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] Frustrating clipboard.
On 10/2/22 19:37, Carsten Haitzler wrote: On Sat, 1 Oct 2022 07:48:29 +0200 Pierre Couderc via enlightenment-users said: If I copy data in the clipboard, then I close the application, then I try to paste, my clipboard has disappeared... Why ? How to keep the clipboard...? this is normal in x - copy & paste is a transaction between 2 clients. "copy" or "cut" simply has the source app own the selection - it says it owns it. when you paste the target app you paste in then requests the data from the source app (they negotiate a common format) then the data is transferred. if the original app is gone - this transaction cannot take place as the selection owner is gone and no negotiation and transfer can happen.n this has been x11 selections (and wayland too) ever since day 0. you could try a clipboard manager that basically pasts to itself whenever it sees a new selection owner and then stores this... and it becomes the selection owner... Thank you very much for the explanation. So I have tried diodon, but it does not work. Do someone use a clipboard manager and can someone suggest me one...? As a more general problem, is there a page giving a list of recommended program tested to be well working with e? I see the problem on another thread, a user wants to install e, but she needs too xorg. Sure it is normal. And she needs too to start dbus, it is dbus-x11 in debian... It is not simple nor basic to know that all this is necessary... ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
