Re: Mootools and String.prototype.contains
My memory was Mootools itself depended on bind, so it was significantly more that broke, thus my conclusion. Someone (probably me!) should check what it was that actually broke, exactly. :) Many things in MooTools Core depends on itself. https://github.com/mootools/mootools-core/commit/c8dc1ab7ab09cc82d20c0bd3b3e9d0e7aba92204 There are some critical features of MooTools that used the contains method back then: https://github.com/mootools/mootools-core/blob/3e7459cb4756475a80921bfde5c19a7c7edb64df/Source/Element/Element.js#L419 ___ es-discuss mailing list es-discuss@mozilla.org https://mail.mozilla.org/listinfo/es-discuss
Re: Mootools and String.prototype.contains
On 13/10/12 11:47, David Bruant wrote: 2012/10/12 Geoffrey Sneddongsned...@opera.com On 12/10/12 14:50, David Bruant wrote: I was looking at Bugzilla and came across two bugs [1] [2] related to Mootools-based (only Mootools 1.2-) websites being broken by the inclusion of String.prototype.contains in SpiderMonkey. I don't think it's been brought to the list yet, though I think it's relevant. Given there were similar issues with Function.prototype.bind in the same release of Mootools, I'm inclined to let it slide: Mootools 1.2 already broke given ES5, and that was pushed through regardless. By intuition, I'd say there is much more code with mystring.contains than uses of myfunction.bind and so pushing .contains may have more impact than .bind did. But that's just an intuition. My memory was Mootools itself depended on bind, so it was significantly more that broke, thus my conclusion. Someone (probably me!) should check what it was that actually broke, exactly. :) -- Geoffrey Sneddon — Opera Software http://gsnedders.com http://opera.com ___ es-discuss mailing list es-discuss@mozilla.org https://mail.mozilla.org/listinfo/es-discuss
Re: Mootools and String.prototype.contains
2012/10/12 Geoffrey Sneddon gsned...@opera.com On 12/10/12 14:50, David Bruant wrote: I was looking at Bugzilla and came across two bugs [1] [2] related to Mootools-based (only Mootools 1.2-) websites being broken by the inclusion of String.prototype.contains in SpiderMonkey. I don't think it's been brought to the list yet, though I think it's relevant. Given there were similar issues with Function.prototype.bind in the same release of Mootools, I'm inclined to let it slide: Mootools 1.2 already broke given ES5, and that was pushed through regardless. By intuition, I'd say there is much more code with mystring.contains than uses of myfunction.bind and so pushing .contains may have more impact than .bind did. But that's just an intuition. David ___ es-discuss mailing list es-discuss@mozilla.org https://mail.mozilla.org/listinfo/es-discuss
Public communication channels (was: Mootools and String.prototype.contains)
2012/10/12 Alex Russell slightly...@google.com I feel like there's as PSA we should write over on webplatform.org for library authors about how to not be future hostile. Some context for those who wouldn't have followed. The W3C, major (western?) browser makers, Nokia, Facebook, HP, Adobe (and probably others?) [1] have launched a new documentation platform this week called webplatform.org It's a wiki (based on MediaWiki, which is Wikipedia's engine). I think the content is CC-BY-licenced (though I haven't found the confirmation on the website itself). WebPlatform.org is in alpha stage for now [2]. Since it's in such an early stage and it's not really well-known and well-established, is webplatform.org the right place to do a PSA as you suggest? Dev evangelists could just write blogposts on the topic. It would have much more impact in my opinion. The level of cooperation and coordination of the different actors around webplatform.org has been impressive. Until webplatform.org reaches a sufficient level of maturity, maybe there is something to leverage if we want any sort of PSA to be efficiently received. David [1] http://www.webplatform.org/stewards/ [2] http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/WPD:FAQ ___ es-discuss mailing list es-discuss@mozilla.org https://mail.mozilla.org/listinfo/es-discuss
Re: Public communication channels (was: Mootools and String.prototype.contains)
On Sat, Oct 13, 2012 at 12:34 PM, David Bruant bruan...@gmail.com wrote: 2012/10/12 Alex Russell slightly...@google.com I feel like there's as PSA we should write over on webplatform.org for library authors about how to not be future hostile. Some context for those who wouldn't have followed. The W3C, major (western?) browser makers, Are there major browser *engine* makers not represented? AFAICT, most of the teams building HTML/JS/CSS engines are stewards (and many people have worked hard to make sure that's true!). Nokia, Facebook, HP, Adobe (and probably others?) [1] have launched a new documentation platform this week called webplatform.org It's a wiki (based on MediaWiki, which is Wikipedia's engine). I think the content is CC-BY-licenced (though I haven't found the confirmation on the website itself). WebPlatform.org is in alpha stage for now [2]. Since it's in such an early stage and it's not really well-known and well-established, is webplatform.org the right place to do a PSA as you suggest? Do you have a different suggesetion? It's hard to think of a place that will predictably see more traffic from folks writing libraries and such in the future. We can always add such a thing to the new ES wiki, I suppose. Dev evangelists could just write blogposts on the topic. It would have much more impact in my opinion. The level of cooperation and coordination of the different actors around webplatform.org has been impressive. Until webplatform.org reaches a sufficient level of maturity, maybe there is something to leverage if we want any sort of PSA to be efficiently received. David [1] http://www.webplatform.org/stewards/ [2] http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/WPD:FAQ ___ es-discuss mailing list es-discuss@mozilla.org https://mail.mozilla.org/listinfo/es-discuss
Re: Public communication channels (was: Mootools and String.prototype.contains)
2012/10/13 Alex Russell slightly...@google.com On Sat, Oct 13, 2012 at 12:34 PM, David Bruant bruan...@gmail.com wrote: Since it's in such an early stage and it's not really well-known and well-established, is webplatform.org the right place to do a PSA as you suggest? Do you have a different suggesetion? Where would have that happened before webplatform.org? The answer to your question was the next sentense It's hard to think of a place that will predictably see more traffic from folks writing libraries and such in the future. We can always add such a thing to the new ES wiki, I suppose. Dev evangelists could just write blogposts on the topic. It would have much more impact in my opinion. Mozilla has hacks, Microsoft has the IEBlog, Google has HTML5Rocks, Opera has its dev blog, Facebook does too and so on... These channels worked well to announce webplatform.org. Why wouldn't they for the PSA you talked about? David ___ es-discuss mailing list es-discuss@mozilla.org https://mail.mozilla.org/listinfo/es-discuss
Mootools and String.prototype.contains
Hi, I was looking at Bugzilla and came across two bugs [1] [2] related to Mootools-based (only Mootools 1.2-) websites being broken by the inclusion of String.prototype.contains in SpiderMonkey. I don't think it's been brought to the list yet, though I think it's relevant. David [1] https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=781796 [2] https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=789036 ___ es-discuss mailing list es-discuss@mozilla.org https://mail.mozilla.org/listinfo/es-discuss
Re: Mootools and String.prototype.contains
Hello, I've found the issue in mootools-core [1]. [1] https://github.com/mootools/mootools-core/issues/2402 Regards, Yusuke Suzuki ___ es-discuss mailing list es-discuss@mozilla.org https://mail.mozilla.org/listinfo/es-discuss
Re: Mootools and String.prototype.contains
It's unclear what we should do here. Their test-and-install mechanism was overly optimistic and therefore future hostile. It looks as though outreach is happening and they're fixing their library and aligning with ES6 in future releases. My suggestion is to wait-and-see what browser vendor advocacy can accomplish without either changing the name of contains() in the drafts or removing it. On Fri, Oct 12, 2012 at 3:04 PM, Yusuke Suzuki utatane@gmail.comwrote: Hello, I've found the issue in mootools-core [1]. [1] https://github.com/mootools/mootools-core/issues/2402 Regards, Yusuke Suzuki ___ es-discuss mailing list es-discuss@mozilla.org https://mail.mozilla.org/listinfo/es-discuss ___ es-discuss mailing list es-discuss@mozilla.org https://mail.mozilla.org/listinfo/es-discuss
Re: Mootools and String.prototype.contains
On 12/10/12 14:50, David Bruant wrote: I was looking at Bugzilla and came across two bugs [1] [2] related to Mootools-based (only Mootools 1.2-) websites being broken by the inclusion of String.prototype.contains in SpiderMonkey. I don't think it's been brought to the list yet, though I think it's relevant. Given there were similar issues with Function.prototype.bind in the same release of Mootools, I'm inclined to let it slide: Mootools 1.2 already broke given ES5, and that was pushed through regardless. -- Geoffrey Sneddon — Opera Software http://gsnedders.com http://opera.com ___ es-discuss mailing list es-discuss@mozilla.org https://mail.mozilla.org/listinfo/es-discuss
Re: Mootools and String.prototype.contains
Good context. I didn't know that they had b0rked bind() as well ;-) I feel like there's as PSA we should write over on webplatform.org for library authors about how to not be future hostile. On Fri, Oct 12, 2012 at 3:26 PM, Geoffrey Sneddon gsned...@opera.comwrote: On 12/10/12 14:50, David Bruant wrote: I was looking at Bugzilla and came across two bugs [1] [2] related to Mootools-based (only Mootools 1.2-) websites being broken by the inclusion of String.prototype.contains in SpiderMonkey. I don't think it's been brought to the list yet, though I think it's relevant. Given there were similar issues with Function.prototype.bind in the same release of Mootools, I'm inclined to let it slide: Mootools 1.2 already broke given ES5, and that was pushed through regardless. -- Geoffrey Sneddon — Opera Software http://gsnedders.com http://opera.com __**_ es-discuss mailing list es-discuss@mozilla.org https://mail.mozilla.org/**listinfo/es-discusshttps://mail.mozilla.org/listinfo/es-discuss ___ es-discuss mailing list es-discuss@mozilla.org https://mail.mozilla.org/listinfo/es-discuss
Re: Mootools and String.prototype.contains
On Fri, Oct 12, 2012 at 10:09 AM, Alex Russell slightly...@google.comwrote: It's unclear what we should do here. Their test-and-install mechanism was overly optimistic and therefore future hostile. It looks as though outreach is happening and they're fixing their library and aligning with ES6 in future releases. My suggestion is to wait-and-see what browser vendor advocacy can accomplish without either changing the name of contains() in the drafts or removing it. I agree. ES6 standardization isn't due until Dec 2013, which gives browser vendors and lib authors over a year to spread the word, fix implementations, update code, etc. Rick On Fri, Oct 12, 2012 at 3:04 PM, Yusuke Suzuki utatane@gmail.comwrote: Hello, I've found the issue in mootools-core [1]. [1] https://github.com/mootools/mootools-core/issues/2402 Regards, Yusuke Suzuki ___ es-discuss mailing list es-discuss@mozilla.org https://mail.mozilla.org/listinfo/es-discuss ___ es-discuss mailing list es-discuss@mozilla.org https://mail.mozilla.org/listinfo/es-discuss ___ es-discuss mailing list es-discuss@mozilla.org https://mail.mozilla.org/listinfo/es-discuss
