URL correction (again)
-Original Message- From: Robert Crawley [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tuesday, February 27, 2001 2:31 PM Subject: RE: The source of Europa's sulfur [Original Message] From: Bruce Moomaw [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Icepick Europa Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2/27/2001 3:09:57 PM Subject: The source of Europa's sulfur Yep, and here's the post about Carlson -- specifically, his abstract for the coming European geophysical Society meeting in March. (By the way, this is a different Carlson -- in fact, the Principal Investigator for Galileo's NIMS experiment.) www.copernicus.org/EGS/egsga/nice01/programme/abstracts/aai4231 Are you sure that's the right pdf? I ended up getting some study on interglacial-ocean-atmospheric-vegetation effect. But thanks for posting the abstract here. Sorry -- it's actually www.copernicus.org/EGS/egsga/nice01/programme/abstracts/aai4230 (I hope.) Bruce == You are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/
The Dish to Premiere in the U.S. on 14 March 2001
http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewnews.html?id=294 "The Dish" to Premiere in the U.S. on 14 March 2001 Keith Cowing Monday, February 26, 2001 "Pulling the wool over NASA's eyes took guts. Pulling it out of the sheep dip was an international triumph." A note from a reader down under: Hi Keith, Hope things are going well. I'm not sure if you are aware of a film that is about to be released in the United States known as The Dish. It is a movie that was made here in Australia, and is based upon how the pictures of Apollo 11's moonwalk was received by the radio telescope built in Parkes, New South Wales. The film is a comedy that sees how three local scientists, and a NASA engineer have to cope with problems in getting the first live pictures broadcast to the worldproblems such as power outages, loss of computer information and high winds that threaten to collaspe the enourmous Dish. When the film opened here in Australia, it broke all box office records, and became one of the most popular is our history of Motion Picture Arts. I am a huge fan of the film (I saw it 5 times), because of its accuracy, comedy and direction in giving the viewer a feel of the extraordinary event that took place in July 1969. It opens in the US on March 14th (Nationwide on April 25th), and I am eagerly awaiting to find out what the reaction will be from the US. There is a web site open for the film, which is distributed by Warner Bros, which is: http://thedishmovie.warnerbros.com I am hoping this will be of some interest to you and your readers. Best Wishes, Shane Cathcart == You are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/
RE: Sulfur elsewhere in the Jovian system
[Original Message] From: Bruce Moomaw [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Icepick Europa Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2/27/2001 3:25:00 PM Subject: Sulfur elsewhere in the Jovian system What I wonder about -- and have never seen anything written about -- is whether the reddish color of Jupiter's upper clouds might also have something to do with sulfur dumped into its atmosphere by Io over the eons, although it may well be that the total amount of Ionian sulfur deposited is far too little to have anything to do with Jupiter's still-mysterious cloud coloring. BRuce Moomaw Now Cassini was supposed to have used its composite infrared spectrometer to help determine that data back in December. Did it fail to do so? --- chooser-of-tactics --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] "Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science." -- Charles Darwin == You are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/
Mars Magmas Once Contained A Lot Of Water
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 12:26:14 -0800 (PST) From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Mars Magmas Once Contained A Lot Of Water, Researchers Report Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: undisclosed-recipients:; News Office Massachusetts Institute of Technology Cambridge, Massachusetts CONTACT: Deborah Halber, MIT News Office (617) 258-9276, [EMAIL PROTECTED] JANUARY 24, 2001 Mars magmas once contained a lot of water, researchers from MIT and U. of Tennessee report Finding suggests that volcanos helped bring water to the planet's surface millions of years ago CAMBRIDGE, Mass. -- Evidence from a Martian volcanic rock indicates that Mars magmas contained significant amounts of water before eruption on the planet's surface, researchers from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, the University of Tennessee and other institutions report in the Jan. 25 issue of Nature. Scientists say that channels on Mars's surface may have been carved by flowing water and an ancient ocean may have existed there, but little is known about the source of the water. One possible source is volcanic degassing, in which water vapor is produced by magma spewing from volcanos, but the Martian rocks that have reached Earth as meteorites have notoriously low water content. This study shows that before the molten rock that crystallized to form Martian meteorites was erupted on the surface of the planet, it contained as much as 2 percent dissolved water. When magma reaches the planet's surface, the solubility of water in the molten liquid decreases and the water forms vapor bubbles and escapes as gas. The process is similar to the release of gas bubbles that occurs when you open a can of soda. Although this doesn't explain how water got into Mars in the first place, it does show that water on the red planet once cycled through the deep interior as well as existed on the surface, as similar processes have cycled water through the Earth's interior throughout geologic history. A VISITOR FROM MARS Timothy L. Grove, professor of Earth, Atmospheric and Planetary Sciences at MIT, and University of Tennessee geologist Harry Y. McSween Jr. analyzed the Mars meteorite Shergotty to provide an estimate of the water that was present in Mars magmas prior to their eruption on the surface. Shergotty, a meteorite weighing around 5 kilograms was discovered in India in 1865. It is one of a handful of proven Mars meteorites that landed on Earth. It is relatively young -- around 175 million years old -- and may have originated in the volcanic Tharsis region of the red planet. Its measured water content is only around 130-350 parts per million. But by exploring the amount of water that would be necessary for its pyroxenes -- its earliest crystallizing minerals -- to form, the researchers have determined that at one time, Shergotty magma contained around 2 percent water. They also have detected the presence of elements that indicate the growth of the pyroxenes at high water contents. This has important implications for the origin of the water that was present on the surface of the planet during the past. This new information points to erupting volcanos as a possible mechanism for getting water to Mars's surface. SQUEEZING HYDROGEN INTO ROCKS In the interior of Mars, hot magma is generated at great depth. It then ascends into the shallower, colder outer portions of the Martian interior, where it encounters cooler rock that contains hydrogen-bearing minerals. These minerals decompose when heated by the magma and the hydrogen is released and dissolves in the magma. The magma continues its ascent to the surface of the planet. When it reaches very shallow, near-surface conditions in the crust, the magma erupts and its water is released in the form of vapor. The magma holds the water-creating hydrogen as the rock circulates underneath the crust. It undergoes changes as it moves from areas of enormous heat and pressure to cooler areas nearer the surface. When it finally erupts through a volcano, the magma releases its water in the form of vapor. Grove recreates Mars and moon rocks in his laboratory for these studies. By subjecting synthetic rocks to conditions of high temperature and pressure, he can tell how much water was contained in magma at the time that its crystals were formed. "What my experiment can do is estimate how much water was involved in the process that led to the formation of Mars meteorites. The only way you can reproduce the unique chemical composition of these minerals is to have water present," he said. Other authors on the Nature paper include McSween's graduate student, Rachel C. F. Lentz; Lee R. Riciputi of the chemical and analytical sciences division of Oak Ridge National Laboratory; Jeffrey G. Ryan, a geologist at the University of South Florida; and Jesse C. Dann and Astrid H. Holzheid of MIT's Department of Earth, Atmospheric and Planetary Sciences. This work was partly supported by NASA. == You are
Re: Europa submersible hypothetical
In a message dated 2/27/2001 8:22:07 AM Alaskan Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: As for burning sulfur for fuel: keep in mind that you have to burn it WITH something, and Europa is singularly short on free oxygen (although it does have a little, thanks to the breakdown of water ice by Jupiter's radiation). I don't know what happens when you react sulfur with hydrogen peroxide (which Europa does have in considerable amounts). Hmm... it appears that the only reason, from Bruce's response, to go to the Jovian moons is to satisfy a scientific reason, and that may not be compelling enough to justify the costs. Is Jovian gravity so strong that it would significantly impact operations on Europa or Io? Couldn't Jovian radiation be avoided by sending in remote probes and machines, operated from a more distant orbit? I suppose I, like many others, have been infected with the idea that the various bodies of the solar system are all potential resource mines, promising huge fortunes in whatever it is that would compel people to go there. If the conditions are just too cost extravagant, however, then are we humans destined to spend eternity on our little terrestial abode? On a lighter note: considering Europa's surfeit of water, sulfa, and hydrogen peroxide, if a speculative astronaut ever got a cut on his little star-faring finger, he would have plenty of local antiseptic. -- John Harlow Byrne == You are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/
Re: Europa submersible hypothetical
Larry: Are there any plans to make a one-stop-shopping Europa website? Clearly, we all could use a website that: 1) had various demonstrated and hypothetical data lists / pictures, etc, about Europa (and Io, if possible). 2) had prospective pictures of any Europan submersible, crew parameters (if manned) and updates on JPLs work. 3) had a past-email list of some of the better, more informative emails posted here. 4) Oh, and an email / address list of various members. At this point, I have no idea how many people around the world are part of this little discussion circle, but there's some phenomenally bright and knowledgeable people out there. -- John Harlow Byrne == You are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/
Re: Europa submersible hypothetical
I suppose I, like many others, have been infected with the idea that the various bodies of the solar system are all potential resource mines, promising huge fortunes in whatever it is that would compel people to go there. If the conditions are just too cost extravagant, however, then are we humans destined to spend eternity on our little terrestial abode? This is an infection of epidemic proportions that has inhabited sf writers for as long as I can remember, and that's a long time! It's kind of like the "bottom of the well" gimmick: The hero is stuck at the bottom of a deep well seemingly with no way out. The next chapter begins with "...when he got out of the well..." SF writers do it this way: We skip over the ruminations of the Bruce Moomaws of the world, and, with a shrug of our shoulders, assume that mankind has developed a fantastically powerful and incredibly cheap propulsion system with the structural strength to handle it. Problem solved! Warp drive? No problemo! So with this propulsion system and strong vehicle, we can just load it up with whatever valuable material we find and ship it off to the highest bidder. So here it is: The material? Water. The location? Europa. The customer? A species from a planet in dire need of water. The propulsion system? Why, the usual, of course. Watch the skies! :-) - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2001 4:17 PM Subject: Re: Europa submersible hypothetical In a message dated 2/27/2001 8:22:07 AM Alaskan Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: As for burning sulfur for fuel: keep in mind that you have to burn it WITH something, and Europa is singularly short on free oxygen (although it does have a little, thanks to the breakdown of water ice by Jupiter's radiation). I don't know what happens when you react sulfur with hydrogen peroxide (which Europa does have in considerable amounts). Hmm... it appears that the only reason, from Bruce's response, to go to the Jovian moons is to satisfy a scientific reason, and that may not be compelling enough to justify the costs. Is Jovian gravity so strong that it would significantly impact operations on Europa or Io? Couldn't Jovian radiation be avoided by sending in remote probes and machines, operated from a more distant orbit? I suppose I, like many others, have been infected with the idea that the various bodies of the solar system are all potential resource mines, promising huge fortunes in whatever it is that would compel people to go there. If the conditions are just too cost extravagant, however, then are we humans destined to spend eternity on our little terrestial abode? On a lighter note: considering Europa's surfeit of water, sulfa, and hydrogen peroxide, if a speculative astronaut ever got a cut on his little star-faring finger, he would have plenty of local antiseptic. -- John Harlow Byrne == You are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/ == You are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/
Re: Europa submersible hypothetical
-Original Message- From: Schmidt Mickey Civ 50 TS/CC [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tuesday, February 27, 2001 10:13 AM Subject: RE: Europa submersible hypothetical These may seem a very naive questions and if they are I apologize, but I am interested in answers to several questions. 1. Can it be said that Europa's ice crust is floating on a liquid layer? I assume Yes is the answer. Yep. 2. If it is floating and if the ice is several kilometers thick what is the magnitude of the pressure on a submersible say 100 meters below the ice? Is the amount of pressure the sum of the weight of ice directly above plus the weight (in Europan gravity)of the 100 meters of water. Yep. (Europan gravity is about 1/7 that of Earth.) So even if the floor of the ocean is beneath a total of 150 km of ice and liquid water (as may be the case), the pressure there would be only about twice that at the bottom of the Marianas Trench. 6. Is there a "radiation wake" anywhere on Europa where, due to its motion, or being tidally locked to jupiter, the effect of the Jovian Radiation belts is lessened? Yep -- and, paradoxically, it's the side of Europa facing forward in its orbit. Because Jupiter's rotation -- and therfore the rotation of its magnetic field, and the rotation of the charged-particle radiation and plasma that the field drags along -- are all faster than the rate at which the Galilean satellites revolve around Jupiter, the wake that they plow in the magnetosphere runs ahead of them along their orbital path (whereas the solar-wind wake of all the planets points away from the Sun). The same is true of most of the moons of the other three giant planets. And the surface compositions of some of the giant planets' moons do seem to reflect this uneven radiation exposure -- for instance, there is more sulfur dioxide (presumably from Ionian ions) on the trailing faces of Europa, Ganymede and Callisto. 7. I have seen many chemicals suggested as being in solution, or lately, in combination would have preciptiated out. Has anyone collected a list of these "potential" chemicals? Seems like that would be the makings of a decent science project to see what's left if they are/were all there an one time. I actually saw such a list on a slide during one of the talks at the Europa Focus Group meeting -- and it was one hell of a long list. It included (and these are the ones I can remember) hydrogen peroxide, oxygen, sulfuric acid, carbonic acid, carbon dioxide, ammonia, formaldehyde (and other more complex organic compounds), magnesium sulfate, sodium sulfate, sodium carbonate, sodium chloride, and no doubt some others. Some of them do seem to be mututally exclusive -- as I said in a recent post, magnesium sulfate and sodium carbonate would react with each other and turn into sodium sulfate and (insoluble) magnesium carbonate, and ammonia would react with some of the others. (I'll poke around soon in the past few years of LPSC abstracts on the subject and see if I can dig up something more specific.) Bruce Moomaw == You are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/
