EV Digest 6931
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: Electric transmission computer
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: 'simple' balancer for NiMH NiCD, Li Ion Pack
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Slightly OT: Painting your EV for less than $100
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Understanding Motors II
by "Zeke Yewdall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Understanding Motors II
by Jeremy Green <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: 24-volt Electric Utility Cart Motor Question
by Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Understanding Motors II
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Siamese 8 Lives Again...Seattle here we come!
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Understanding Motors II
by Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: bruhless motor's
by Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Auto Transport Companies ??
by William Brinsmead <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Understanding Motors II
by "Dave Wilker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: thundersky cells for cheap, prices
by "David Sharpe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: DCDC converter
by Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Max motor temperatures and temp sender install
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Flexible Stainless Steel interconnects
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Understanding Motors II
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Tell Toyota to Get With the Program!
by robert mat <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Understanding Motors II
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: charging w/ one battery missing
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Cheap
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: thundersky cells for cheap, prices
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: thundersky cells for cheap, prices
by john fisher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: DCDC converter
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
25) Re: Auto Transport Companies ??
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
26) Re: thundersky cells for cheap, prices
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) RE: Interna Resistance?
by Joseph Tahbaz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
I was looking only at the 2000 and newer ECM's. GM standardized on the
powerPC and they are programmable without disassembly(flash). They are
avail from wrecking yards at about $100 because they are used on so many
models and because they must be programmed by the dealer. There are
websites on how to wire in a debug port.
I think the input side is pretty good. They can read the hall effect
pedals as they do on diesel suburbans, 6K pot throttle position sensors
from your typical V6 air temp, 3,7,and 49 pulse per revolution sensors,
water temp, (they even have a microphone that modify a pwm signal : the
knock sensor)
There is a PMW output, the EGR valve on these units.
The software is a little different. Using 2D lookup tables that modify
core values. This is done to allow computation at higher rpms.
I thought of this for maybe a ultra-cheap conversion with a remote and
simple low power-power stage or for an ACIM drive. But I am aware of
problems with both. Once I got my zilla I saw no reason to persue the DC
idea. :-)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sure it could work, but it is horendously expensive.
You'd need double-pole double-throw contactors for EVERY cell. They would
have to be rated to handle the full working current load and full pack
voltage.
Since a DPDT contactor that can handle EV power levels run several hundred
dollars each, you're talking a ballancer that could run upwards of
$100,000. Well, you might be able to get a quantity discount, so maybe
only $75,000
And, with that many switches, failure of a single switch is a very real
possibility, so you'd need high current, high voltage, fuses on every
cell. Those ain't cheap either.
> This only works for vehicles with dual battery packs.
> And, maybe you won't think it is all this simple.
>
> When under load, both packs are in parallel. You do
> need some type of current limiter between them to
> limit runaway situations if one module in one pack
> dies.
>
> When not under load (or only under light load),
> disconnect pack #1 from pack #2. Disconnect all of
> the modules in Pack #2. Put all the modules in pack
> #2 in parallel. This equalizes pack #2. Then,
> disconnect pack #1, and do the same. Eventually, if
> you repeat this algorithm at the right frequency and
> for the right duration, your batteries will all be
> equalized.
>
> It can work well for all types of batteries. It is
> safest on lead / lead systems. Something like dial
> strings of small Lead Acid batteries. If you use Lead
> / NiMH, you have to limit the current in / out of each
> NiMH module when they are in parallel mode.
> Polyswitches as the devices that puts them in
> parallel. If you use Li Ion, you also need
> overvoltage protection (at a minimum some type of
> shunt regulator) on each cell. This is in addition to
> the overvoltage protection.
>
> Steve
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who
> knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.
> http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545433
>
>
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If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The last time I checked, decent automotive quality paint (not the "good
stuff" just the OK stuff) cost more than $100.
How you apply it won't change the basic price.
> Since the majority of our EVs are > 10 years old, the paint on them
> isn't like it used to be. However, I have a hard time justifying
> spending $2k for something that will not propel my EV.
>
> I have some time on my hands while saving up for my next big purchase
> ( a 9" ADC), so I am considering painting the car myself using a
> roller. The kicker is that it costs < $100 to do it (not including
> the random orbit polisher). I'll also be able to bondo the dents,
> too. There are several sites that explain this and show their
> results. Has anyone tried this before? Results?
>
> http://rollyourcar.com/default.aspx
>
> http://carpainting.wetpaint.com/page/Rollering+Interlux+Brightside+Polyurethane+Paint?t=anon
>
> The original thread that introduced the roll on method to the masses:
> (30+ pages)
> http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=2331682&page=0&fpart=1&vc=1%3Cbr%20/%3E
>
> Thanks,
> Brian
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/960
>
>
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If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I think Mike answered your question. If there is no back EMF, then
the current would follow ohms law.
"If its a series wound motor you can measure the resistance through
both coils and divide it into the amount of voltage you plan to drop
directly on it from the batteries and you'll get the amount of current
that will go through the motor."
Hopefully this amperage would be for a very very short time (because
the motor would start turning almost instantaneously due to generation
a very high torque, and they it would start generating back EMF, and
the current would reduce).
Z
On 6/22/07, Rob Hogenmiller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I must not be posting my question right.
There is no controller. I hook a ground wire and a positive wire to the
electric motor.
What spec on the motors information would tell me the most amps it could
draw from a battery?
God bless
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeremy Green" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 10:44 PM
Subject: Re: Understanding Motors II
>I wouldn't think so. I read that to mean that it will start to overheat
>after 30 seconds at 300 amps (or that is what it is rated for).
> It may draw more amps if allowed by the controller. It will overheat
> much more quickly at higher amp draws.
>
> Hope this helps...
>
> On Jun 21, 2007, at 11:32 PM, Rob Hogenmiller wrote:
>
>> If a motor specs reads it can do 30seconds at 300amps and 100amps
>> continous.
>>
>> Does that mean the most it can ever draw from a battery is 300amps if
>> you connect it straight up to a battery?
>>
>> God bless
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
--
Zeke Yewdall
Chief Electrical Engineer
Sunflower Solar, A NewPoint Energy Company
Cell: 720.352.2508
Office: 303.459.0177
FAX documents to: 720.269.1240
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.cosunflower.com
CoSEIA Certified
Certified BP Solar Installer
National Association of Home Builders
Quotable Quote
"In the dark of the moon, in flying snow,
in the dead of winter, war spreading,
families dying, the world in danger,
I walk the rocky hillside
sowing clover."
Wendell Berry
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That spec probably isn't on the plate. That would be the stall
current which is the highest current it will draw. You can probably
find that out by measuring the resistance through the motor with a
multimeter. The maximum current it would draw would be the measured
resistance divided by the voltage you are planning to apply. But,
hopefully your motor will never be seeing stall current because it
will destroy your motor quite quickly. It's bad news to stall the
motor for a couple reasons that I know of (and probably quite a few
more that motor experts like Jim know of). All of the current is
going through just the few comm bars that the brushes happen to be
touching (as opposed to be commutated through all of the comm bars
and the fan on the motor isn't moving so no air is being pushed
through the motor and the motor will be trying to draw a ridiculous
amount of current in order to spin.
In a series wound motor a given voltage corresponds to a given RPM.
With no load on a series motor the rpm rapidly shoots towards
infinity (I think). As far as I can tell the current drawn by a
motor is some function of the difference between the commanded RPM
(or the rpm that corresponds to the current voltage) and the actual
RPM of the motor. So if you are putting 12 volts through the motor
and it wants to be revving at 1000 RPM but it is stalled at 0 RPM
then it will try to draw as much current as it possibly can (until
the resistance of the motor itself comes into play) in order to spin
up to 1000 RPM.
This is just my hypothesis from my personal observations of my motor
and may have no basis in reality at all...
So, take it with a grain of salt and listen to the experts...
-Jeremy
On Jun 22, 2007, at 6:41 AM, Rob Hogenmiller wrote:
I must not be posting my question right.
There is no controller. I hook a ground wire and a positive wire to
the electric motor.
What spec on the motors information would tell me the most amps it
could draw from a battery?
God bless
----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeremy Green" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 10:44 PM
Subject: Re: Understanding Motors II
I wouldn't think so. I read that to mean that it will start to
overheat after 30 seconds at 300 amps (or that is what it is rated
for).
It may draw more amps if allowed by the controller. It will
overheat much more quickly at higher amp draws.
Hope this helps...
On Jun 21, 2007, at 11:32 PM, Rob Hogenmiller wrote:
If a motor specs reads it can do 30seconds at 300amps and 100amps
continous.
Does that mean the most it can ever draw from a battery is
300amps if you connect it straight up to a battery?
God bless
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Jim,
I'm still trying to comprehend it, but I think I got it.
I'll have to check with the meter to verify the setup.
Time is ticking. My wife wants me to haul the thing to the dump
tomorrow. Argghh. That's the first thing she asked me at breakfast
today. "Are we making a run to the dump this weekend?"
From the quick test I did the motor does run. Just got to get the
rest figured out per your suggestions and to test the controller and
relays. If those major components test out, it should be salvageable.
My dream with this was to use it as a tug to haul my son's electric
Jr. dragster at the race track (when he gets old enough to race).
Chip
On Jun 22, 2007, at 1:44 AM, Electric Vehicle Discussion List wrote:
From: Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: June 21, 2007 11:43:21 PM EDT
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: 24-volt Electric Utility Cart Motor Question
Hey Chip
Now I'm not saying that your motor's like that, just
an idea. Lansing does it by using two wires (as one)
which gets like 11 turns from memory. They then
seperate the wires into 4 connections per coil (now
it's two seperate and opposite wound coils interlaced.
Anyway the way they wound it is you only use half the
coil mass at a time as every other wind is a reverse
polarty wire. Hope that explaines it.
I doubt you have this exact setup but with just three
wires it's got to be something like this which does
make for easy motor reversing.
Hope this helps
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- Rob Hogenmiller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I must not be posting my question right.
>
> There is no controller. I hook a ground wire and a
> positive wire to the
> electric motor.
>
> What spec on the motors information would tell me
> the most amps it could
> draw from a battery?
None actually, lol. I'm not sure what you are looking
to find out. The controller doesn't add or subtract
the current that the motor will draw but is determined
by how it's wound.
If using just one 12 volt battery "most" brushed DC
motors will run somewhere between 20 to 40 amps and
2000 to 4000 RPM's running free spin (un-loaded).
Under 12 volts this is the "max" it will draw, until
you put it under load.
Anyway I guess I am lost as to what it is you're
looking at understanding. Maybe you're looking to see
if your motor is good or not? If you wire it to 12
volts and she draws 100 amps (0 load), well then your
motor probably has an issue as I'm gonna guess it
should be drawing about 30 amps give or take. Does
this make sense or answer your question?
I missed what motor you are actually using so that
info (or shootng me a pic) will offer some better idea
of what she should draw under 12 volts, that is if
that's actually what you're looking to find out.
Hope this helps
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
____________________________________________________________________________________
Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels
in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit.
http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Andrew Kane wrote:
Hi John and Jim,
Great fun to read your posts as usual. I'm very excited for the
Greenwood event, and looking forward to an opportunity to meet The
Famous John Wayland. ;)
Yeah, too bad Jim isn't coming...what a mama's boy! Yes, please stop by
and introduce yourself. You'll get to meet Tim Brehm as well. This is
his first time to the Greenwood show.
I had written:
>Tonight, after I return from yet another 320 mile round trip to
Central Oregon and back (7 trips in less than 4 weeks now), Tim Brehm
>and I will meet up at my house at 6:00 pm or so to re-install the
Siamese 8 in White Zombie.
For the first time in a long time, it actually went as planned. I
returned from my service call to Bend back into the Portland area right
on schedule at 5:35 pm. That 320 miles in the rough-riding thundering
diesel Isuzu service truck up and over the thickly forested Mt. Hood and
through Oregon's high desert and back (with no AC in 86 degree weather)
kind of poops you out. I never even got out of my work uniform and just
kept on doing 'wrenching stuff' when Tim and another helper, Kevin,
showed up. With the reversing contactor setup that mounts to the side of
the motor and fits snuggly under the Zilla these days, re-assembly is no
longer a 10-15 minute affair. In fact, after fighting with the contactor
bracket to get its holes to line up with the motor mount's side bolts
for maybe 45 minutes, I gave up, pulled it all back out, and slotted the
thick walled mount to make the re-assembly possible. It took us until
8:30 pm to get the Zombie's heart beating again.
The Genesis pack was sitting at a healthy 387V static, and after easing
the throttle on to test that both directions were functioning, the car
was lowered back down as Tim took it out for a little run around the
area. After a nice recharge and top-off of the 12V system, I took it out
for another run to give the pack some much needed exercise. All seemed
OK. We had the car loaded on the trailer by 9:30 pm....finally, I got to
pull off those work boots!
With so much OT again this week, I'll get off early enough to have time
to spiff up the Insight a bit, load up some stuff, and head north to
Seattle by 3:00 or so.
Saturday's car show will be a lot of fun, and as always, it will be
great to meet some new faces, so please take time to stop by and say hello!
See Ya.....John Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rob,
The current the motor will draw is related to the load
applied to the shaft, that is the torque opposing
rotation. The higher the load torque, the higher the
current draw. The highest load torque being that
which prevents rotation, zero RPM, called stall. So,
when the motor is at zero RPM, the maximum current the
motor will draw is called stall current. At zero RPM,
there is no back EMF (generated voltage, Eg) by the
armature, so stall current is equal to the applied
voltage divided by the motor resistance. The applied
voltage is the battery voltage minus the sag (voltage
drop due to internal battery resistance) and minus
voltage drop in the circuit between the battery and
motor.
Since the stall current is so dependant on the applied
voltage, it is seldom a nameplate data. But realize
that everytime you start the motor from stall, there
is an inrush of current that approaches this stall
current value. The associated torque with stall
current, called stall torque, is large, so the motor
will accelerate and start procuding an Eg which will
start to limit current. However if there is an
inertial load, the acceleration will be slower and the
initial current surge longer. This is why motor
controllers have current limits.
Now the specs on the motor usually tell the rating or
how long it can run at a given load before it reaches
rated temperature. Seldom is given a maximum current
spec.
Hope this helps,
Jeff
--- Rob Hogenmiller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I must not be posting my question right.
>
> There is no controller. I hook a ground wire and a
> positive wire to the
> electric motor.
>
> What spec on the motors information would tell me
> the most amps it could
> draw from a battery?
>
> God bless
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jeremy Green" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 10:44 PM
> Subject: Re: Understanding Motors II
>
>
> >I wouldn't think so. I read that to mean that it
> will start to overheat
> >after 30 seconds at 300 amps (or that is what it is
> rated for).
> > It may draw more amps if allowed by the
> controller. It will overheat
> > much more quickly at higher amp draws.
> >
> > Hope this helps...
> >
> > On Jun 21, 2007, at 11:32 PM, Rob Hogenmiller
> wrote:
> >
> >> If a motor specs reads it can do 30seconds at
> 300amps and 100amps
> >> continous.
> >>
> >> Does that mean the most it can ever draw from a
> battery is 300amps if
> >> you connect it straight up to a battery?
> >>
> >> God bless
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
Luggage? GPS? Comic books?
Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search
http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=oni_on_mail&p=graduation+gifts&cs=bz
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Owen,
By "brushless", I guess you mean brushless DC motors,
or permanent magnet synchronous machines, PMSM.
http://www.uqm.com/index.html
UQM makes a nice brushless product. Not sure where
you could just one. And they are pricey.
And, yeah, they are good for EVs.
Jeff
--- owen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> can anyone tell me if brushless are any good for an
> ev and where to get one from
> thank's
> owen
____________________________________________________________________________________
Got a little couch potato?
Check out fun summer activities for kids.
http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=oni_on_mail&p=summer+activities+for+kids&cs=bz
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi All ,
I have seen this discussed in the past but it is probably out of date
by now. Does any one have experience with auto transport companies ? I
need to get a quote to ship a EV to be form Indiana to Nevada, there is
just a bewildering glut of them on the web. I am hoping that some one
knows of a few good companies left.
Thanks Bill Brinsmead
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jim
Is there anyway to calculate the current draw from the running resistance of
the motor (static resistance minus Back EMF)?
David C. Wilker Jr.
USAF (RET)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Husted" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 7:15 AM
Subject: Re: Understanding Motors II
--- Rob Hogenmiller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I must not be posting my question right.
There is no controller. I hook a ground wire and a
positive wire to the
electric motor.
What spec on the motors information would tell me
the most amps it could
draw from a battery?
None actually, lol. I'm not sure what you are looking
to find out. The controller doesn't add or subtract
the current that the motor will draw but is determined
by how it's wound.
If using just one 12 volt battery "most" brushed DC
motors will run somewhere between 20 to 40 amps and
2000 to 4000 RPM's running free spin (un-loaded).
Under 12 volts this is the "max" it will draw, until
you put it under load.
Anyway I guess I am lost as to what it is you're
looking at understanding. Maybe you're looking to see
if your motor is good or not? If you wire it to 12
volts and she draws 100 amps (0 load), well then your
motor probably has an issue as I'm gonna guess it
should be drawing about 30 amps give or take. Does
this make sense or answer your question?
I missed what motor you are actually using so that
info (or shootng me a pic) will offer some better idea
of what she should draw under 12 volts, that is if
that's actually what you're looking to find out.
Hope this helps
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
____________________________________________________________________________________
Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels
in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit.
http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The warranty is only 90 days.
David Sharpe
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Saturday, June 23, 2007 12:25 AM
Subject: Re: thundersky cells for cheap, prices
The last time they tried a group buy, Thundersky sold them a bunch of
defective cells (cells that TS KNEW were defective).
Not many people on this list are interested in dealing with a company that
likes to screw there customers.
Especially when they still aren't interested in doing the right thing.
Supposedly they don't do that anymore, but if they were willing to screw
their customers in the past, what's to stop them from doing it again?
I don't know if they claim to have a warranty now, but they clearly didn't
honor any in the past.
Not sure if anyone's seen this, it's my first time seeing this pricing
structure.
http://www.thunder-sky.com/order_en.asp
It seems like you can get these cells for as low as $1.30 per Ah! That's
pretty cheap. But you'd need to buy a large quantity. Maybe we can do a
group purchase, and someone can buy all of them and then sell them for
$1.30 per Ah. :)
- Tony
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I know what it is of course. that doesn't answer the question though
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
"Buck" is a switchmode topology term. Perhaps this will help:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buck_converter
Ken
-----Original Message-----
From: Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Sent: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 10:32 pm
Subject: Re: DCDC converter
why not simple buck it? why through a transformer?
Dan
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jeff Major wrote:
Hi Mark, Richard,
Class H insulation is 180 degree C. Meaning at 180C,
insulation will last 10,000 hours(or half life of
10,000).
Note that this is the *hot spot* temperature -- the maximum temperature
in the hottest spot in the motor in contact with the insulation. The
hottest spot could be anywhere -- it's location is generally unpredictable.
Normal industry practice is to assume some derating factor between the
hot spot and the average insulation temperature, like 40 deg.C. So, when
the average insulation temperature is 140 deg.C, then assume the hot
spot is 180 deg.C and we're at our maximum temperature limit.
This is done because its much easier to measure the average insulation
temperature. You can embed a 140 deg.C sensor somewhere near the middle
of a winding, rather than have to guess where the hot spot is and hope
you can get a sensor there.
If a motor (or transformer or solenoid or relay coil, etc.) has no
internal temperature sensor, it is still fairly easy to measure its
average temperature by the rise-in-resistance method. Copper has a very
predictable resistance-versus-temperature characteristic. So, you can
measure the winding resistance at a known temperature. Then, it is easy
to measure its temperature when hot or cold by the change in resistance.
Momentarily disconnect it from whatever was powering it, quickly measure
its resistance, and switch it back on.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Chip Gribben wrote:
Is there a way to shrink tube, I know this is rediculous, that short
amount of space of the bus bar between each disconnect.
Shrink tubing works, but does leave a crack between the metal and shrink
tubing for water, electrolyte, etc. to get into.
At Schott Power Systems, we powder coated the buss bars. It is an
excellent insulator and will protect the metal from any spileed or
leaking electrolyte. Pick one of the powder coating materials that is UL
listed to guarantee its electrical and thermal characteristics have been
tested.
The other point is that the buss bars should not be visible or
touchable; your batteries should be in covered boxes where people (and
DMV inspectors) can't see them anyway.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rob Hogenmiller wrote:
What do you mean by never stall?
By this, he means running high current to the motor when it is not
turning for more than a second or so. For example, don't try to hold the
car motionless on a hill by applying power to the motor.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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Rob Hogenmiller wrote:
I must not be posting my question right.
There is no controller. I hook a ground wire and a positive wire to the
electric motor.
What spec on the motors information would tell me the most amps it could
draw from a battery?
At stall, the motor will draw *all* that the batteries and wiring can
deliver. This will produce a *huge* amount of torque, and break
something very quickly!
As the motor begins to turn, it will draw less current. How *much* less
depends on the load on the motor. Roughly speaking, motors have a
specification on how much torque per amp they produce. So, the load
torque determines the motor current.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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Tony Furr wrote:
A few of the cells in my 144v hawker pack are failing so I have
temporarily removed one (actually two because they are in parallel
pairs). Will it damage the controller (curtis 1231c) to run the
car at 132v?
The controller won't care at all. It will work perfectly.
Can't I charge the 132v pack with my Zivan NG charger that says it's
rated 144v or will I cook it?
If you charge a 132v pack with a 144v charger, the charger will think
the batteries are deeply discharged, and seriously overcharge them in a
futile effort to get them up to the proper end-of-charge voltage for a
144v pack.
A dumb charger would just destroy the pack. A smart charger will at
least shut off (eventually) due to one of its safety backup systems
(excessive charging time, excessive battery temperature, etc.) but will
still overcharge them.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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Tony Hwang wrote:
What are the ZL431 and LM138's?
Sorry; My fingers were typing faster than my brain :-)
The first should have been TL431 or ZT431. These are a 2.5v zener diode
equivalent that performs *far* better than a real zener diode. They also
have a control pin to set the precise reference voltage to anything from
about 2.5v to 20v.
The second should have been LM136, which is basically the same thing,
but the control pin lets you adjust its temperature coefficient.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Tony Hwang" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 5:55 AM
Subject: thundersky cells for cheap, prices
Not sure if anyone's seen this, it's my first time seeing this pricing
structure.
http://www.thunder-sky.com/order_en.asp
It seems like you can get these cells for as low as $1.30 per Ah! That's
pretty cheap. But you'd need to buy a large quantity. Maybe we can do a
group purchase, and someone can buy all of them and then sell them for
$1.30 per Ah. :)
- Tony
Hi Tony an' All;
Thunder Sky has a few image issues here?! I HOPE they have cleaned up
their act? The Chinese have been getting away with murder in the quality
control dept, anybody lost a dog or cat to their poisen pet food?Toothpaste
with antifreeze for flaver? Feh!
So, like ethonel, this isn't the holy grail for batteries. Boy! I hope
I'm wrong? Blast me with "Yur ALL wrong!" I'm getting a zillion miles per
charge, the charge in 15 minutes, yada yada yada!" Been in this EV thing for
about 40 years and I'm STILL waiting for the Miricle Battery. Maybe I'll
live to see it?
For now it's " After You" in the TS purchase order, I'll be up for the
second run if they are better than Doorstops, in a few years?
Seeya
Bob
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.9.6/862 - Release Date: 6/22/2007
3:04 PM
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If I did the math right, to get the best price on the 160ah 12V units, (with no
BMS BTW)
you'd need to buy about 3100 160 ah batteries
Then if you resold them here with a gross profit of $300 ea, at about $1000 ea.
you'd end up with $950K to cover costs.
Thats enough to make maybe a half-million net on a $3.5 million investment which is ok but not an oil well. An old
China-hand might do better, I suppose. If somebody set up a co-op with pre-purchases and some way of selling say half of
them straight to retail, and hired that Old China Hand, you might get the co-op member's price down to 15% over
wholesale or so, at a WAG.
ASSUMING I didn't drop a decimal point, and you can sell 3100 batteries in a year, and these TS batts are actually 95%
good, and somebody else doesn't undercut your pricing.
No doubt a real business-person could make a much better analysis.
JF
Tony Hwang wrote:
Not sure if anyone's seen this, it's my first time seeing this pricing
structure.
http://www.thunder-sky.com/order_en.asp
It seems like you can get these cells for as low as $1.30 per Ah! That's pretty
cheap. But you'd need to buy a large quantity. Maybe we can do a group
purchase, and someone can buy all of them and then sell them for $1.30 per Ah.
:)
- Tony
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Then I am afraid I do not understand the question. I don't know what
you mean by "simple buck it".
It doesn't have to use a transformer but it does have to use an
inductor. A transformer is used for the inductor if you want the input
and output to be isolated.
Ken
-----Original Message-----
From: Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Sent: Fri, 22 Jun 2007 10:02 am
Subject: Re: DCDC converter
I know what it is of course. that doesn't answer the question though
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
"Buck" is a switchmode topology term. Perhaps this will help:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buck_converter
Ken
-----Original Message-----
From: Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 10:32 pm
Subject: Re: DCDC converter
why not simple buck it? why through a transformer? > > Dan
________________________________________________________________________
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free
from AOL at AOL.com.
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Hello Bill
After going though several transporters I found this company to be the best.
Most of the ones on line have small print that really makes it either hard
or impossible to get your down payment back if they do not perform. This
company does not require a deposit and only charge you if they move the
vehicle.
They also have the best prices. Contact Rik at 866-769-2452
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) AAALL STATES AUTO TRANSPORT INC.
I have no association with the company other then I do use them. I do not
receive anything for making this recommendation. I will not make referrals
unless I find them to be a good person or company to do business with. I have
moved from all over the country around 20 running and dead EVs with them in
the
last two years.
Don Blazer
In a message dated 6/22/2007 8:12:37 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Hi All ,
I have seen this discussed in the past but it is probably out of date
by now. Does any one have experience with auto transport companies ? I
need to get a quote to ship a EV to be form Indiana to Nevada, there is
just a bewildering glut of them on the web. I am hoping that some one
knows of a few good companies left.
Thanks Bill Brinsmead
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
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Tony Hwang wrote:
Not sure if anyone's seen this, it's my first time seeing this
pricing structure.
http://www.thunder-sky.com/order_en.asp
It seems like you can get these cells for as low as $1.30 per Ah!
That's pretty cheap. But you'd need to buy a large quantity.
Depends on how you look at it.
I paid $1/Ah for a group buy in 2003 in quantity of 500 cells
(504 to be exact). This means they haven't changed pricing for
4 years, and you'd think they should have. Granted, the cells
produced today are different and might be more expensive to make,
(phosphate based instead of manganese and cobalt), but somehow
I doubt it.
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
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