EV Digest 7035
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: Anyone seen a 1600A fuse before?
by Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Information needed please.
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) seeking comments on EV motor sizing
by "Michael Mohlere" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: necessity of other gauges (12V and vacuum)
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) prestolite 4001 vs 4002 vs ADC 8"
by "Michael Mohlere" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) batteries: another increasing range question
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: prestolite 4001 vs 4002 vs ADC 8"
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: A few pics of Mike Willmons motors
by "Matt Graham" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: better battery option for AC Geo Metro?
by "Dale Ulan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: batteries: another increasing range question
by "joe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: batteries: another increasing range question
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: seeking comments on EV motor sizing
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: necessity of other gauges (12V and vacuum)
by "storm connors" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: seeking comments on EV motor sizing
by Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: necessity of other gauges (12V and vacuum)
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Dead EV batteries, OK for solar or other uses?
by "Deanne Mott" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: seeking comments on EV motor sizing
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) RE: Tropica Reducer
by "Bukosky, Allen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) 4002 vs. ADC 8"
by "Michael Mohlere" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Information needed please.
by Christopher Robison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) RE: A few pics of Mike Willmons motors
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: 4002 vs. ADC 8"
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
I'm running a 400A fuse with my Z1K. If your pack voltage is significantly
higher than the motor's limit of around 170 VDC, then
the motor current will limit out first and the battery current will never stay
(or even get to) its 1000A max.
With my 192V pack I would hit close to 1000 from the batteries only for a
couple seconds during a hard acceleration. I never blew
the fuse and even the 250A breakers only popped once after 4 or 5 hard
back-to-back acceleration runs for 0-60 mph times. The fuse
still held.
I would suspect the 600A fuse that was shown would be plenty for daily driving
and may well hold a couple thousand amps for few
couple seconds.
Mike,
Anchorage, Ak.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Rob&Amy Smith
> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2007 10:44 PM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Re: Anyone seen a 1600A fuse before?
>
>
> This does bring up a good question. Whats a good rule of thumb for
> fuse sizing? My understanding was these types of fuses are pretty
> slow to blow, and need to be undersized relative to peak amps (but
> well over cruising amps) to reliably go in the event of a problem. I
> seem to recall some folks running 400A fuses in their pack with a
> Z1k. Does that sound right, or did I misunderstand?
>
> Rob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Transistors were still pretty new in 1960. I don't think the first SCR DC
motor controller was developed until the late 60's.
However, I don't know for sure when the first SCR DC motor controller was
developed. I found a pattent for a patent for a low power SCR controller
for AC devices, the patent was from 1965. It's the earliest SCR bsed
controller I could find. I don't think transistors were developed enough
in the early '60s for a transistor based controller.
> "The motor controller is a strictly electromechanical affair"
>
> Really? Wikipedia claims that the Henney Kilowatt is
> "transistor-regulated)
>
> On 7/17/07, Christopher Robison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, July 16, 2007 10:40 pm, Joseph T. wrote:
>> > Cool, the first electric car to have "modern" electronics.
>>
>> Actually, there are no modern electronic components in the Kilowatt that
>> I
>> know of, besides perhaps the charger (not sure, haven't opened one up).
>>
>> The motor controller is a strictly electromechanical affair, with a bank
>> of contactors located behind the back seat cushion, which are actuated
>> by
>> a clever little cam surrounded by switches. As the throttle cable is
>> pulled by the pedal, it rotates the cam which then actuates the switches
>> as necessary. The switches control the contactors and the battery pack
>> is
>> thus placed in 4 different voltage configurations (lowest voltage
>> includes
>> a resistor) depending on the position of the throttle. A classic
>> "contactor controller" design.
>>
>> It's somewhat entertaining to drive a Kilowatt at night with the cushion
>> removed and the contactors exposed. The flashes can get pretty bright.
>> :-)
>>
>> --
>> Christopher Robison
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> http://ohmbre.org <-- 1999 Isuzu Hombre + Z2K + Warp13!
>>
>>
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Is it as simple as an 11" motor has more HP than a 9" motor has more HP than
an 8" motor, etc...or are there other factors (besides "will it fit") that
need to be considered?
Thanks, Mike
_________________________________________________________________
http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_mini_pcmag_0507
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- Roger Stockton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> So CT requires a vacuum gauge or low vacuum buzzer in every ICE vehicle
> that has power brakes too? After all any vacuum system can develop a
> leak or otherwise fail, and many ICE vehicles have come factory equipped
> with electric vacuum pumps for the brakes and so are subject to all the
> failure modes that your EV might have...
>
I asked him the same thing. His response was that all cars have some kind of
brake warning light
and these are hooked in to vacuum. If you loose vacuum, the brake warning light
should come on. I
haven't tried it, but it sounds plausible. And since he conceded that I could
just install a
vacuum gage instead of a warning buzzer, I was happy. I found a nice little
1.5" gage, I just have
to find a place to put it. Not a lot of room in my dash, and all the automotive
gage supplies are
for 2" and larger gages. But I do have 1.5" hole saw, I just have to find
something to put a hole
in.
Dave Cover
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I couldn't find a ton of information (that I could understand), so figure I
would throw it out to ye of higher intellect...particularly interested in
how the 4002 compares to the others, esp. ADC 8"
Thx, Mike
_________________________________________________________________
Don't get caught with egg on your face. Play Chicktionary!
http://club.live.com/chicktionary.aspx?icid=chick_hotmailtextlink2
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
When I originally planned my car, I didn't need much range: 8 miles round trip.
So I bought some batteries which did the job. That was a couple of years ago.
Starting the end of August, I will be going back to school to finish my
masters degree. That will be about a 28 mile trip. Last year I had another
car to get me to and from. But this year, I will need my electric. I
currently have the maximum number of batteries my curtis 1231 will allow. I
need to buy a new battery pack (can we say newbi battericide). So I have
considered two options: one string of higher capacity batteries, or multiple
strings of the same capacity battery. I should be able to charge while at
school (a friend lives close). So 14 miles. I was initially thinking of buddy
pairing two together, in one string. Would this get me my 14 mile range
without too much discharge? Or would a buddy trio be bad? Or would a battery
with double capacity be better? I would appreciate all opinions on the !
subject, especially those who have tried running a single string and buddy
paired batteries.
Thanks,
Brian
---- Msg sent via @=WebMail - http://webmail.usu.edu/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>From Mike Brown's book:
"The Prestolite is the forerunner of the ADC motor.
It is a little larger, heavier, less efficient, and
less ventilated, but if cost is a factor, adn a used
Prestolite is available, it will serve you well. It
is no longer in production."
--- Michael Mohlere <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I couldn't find a ton of information (that I could
> understand), so figure I
> would throw it out to ye of higher
> intellect...particularly interested in
> how the 4002 compares to the others, esp. ADC 8"
>
> Thx, Mike
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
> Don't get caught with egg on your face. Play
> Chicktionary!
>
http://club.live.com/chicktionary.aspx?icid=chick_hotmailtextlink2
>
>
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? For $20 DVD you can purchase footage of my
'92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at: www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
____________________________________________________________________________________
Need a vacation? Get great deals
to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel.
http://travel.yahoo.com/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Mike,
You don't ever have to worry about Jim having his own EV. He's been talking
about it for a good couple of years now, but that's as far as it goes. He
likes to remind me how slow 13.3 in the quarter mile is, though. Talk, talk,
talk. . .then again, with the latest ETs, I'm starting to put myself asleep
when I talk of mid 13-second quarter mile times.
Those motors are beautiful and they clearly have no business ever being
installed in a vehicle. Shine a light on them up on the mantle and you won't
even need the fireplace underneath them!
Seriously, now that you've got the motors I'm sure it won't be a problem to
bring the Pinto and yourself down to South Florida in January for Battery
Beach Burnout. See you there!
Matt Graham
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mike Willmon
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2007 12:20 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: RE: A few pics of Mike Willmons motors
You know it was all you Jim ;-) I just wanted to be there to see somebody
working their ass off. I see you're becoming quite the
A123 expert now too. Pretty soon you'll be able to be John's 3/4 man pit
crew ;-P ...or EVen your own :-)
But yes the motors are supurb!! I just wanted to let EVeryone know that
after seeing such schweeet motors and nearly having my
head ripped from my shoulders in the WZ ride John gave me back to my hotel
I've decided not to race them or the Pinto. I'm just
going to build a nice cradle and put them up on my mantle and wipe them
EVery day with a clean diaper................NOT.
(oh yeah side note: All those stories John tells about the Zombie having
great acceleration and and an impressive launch...its
all a lie to keep from scaring you away from electric drag racing. Its not
great, its obscene!! And the launch is not
impressive, its more like compressive. Your guts move the the back side of
your spine, the blood in your eyes pretty much gets
smeared on the backside of your retina's and your thinking its gotta be
draining out your optic nerve. Don't bother lifting your
head to look around at the scenery, it won't work. Just as you're getting
enough gumption to pull yourself forward to see out the
windshield again John'll ease off the accelerator and you'll just about push
yourself through the windshield. John wonders why
his passengers mess their pants? Its becaue he's got two shoulder harnesses
holding him firmly in place during all the G- force
excursions and all you got as a passenger is a tiny little nylon strap
across your waist :-O
Back on topic I'll have to say if I haven't already, you are doing excellent
work Jim. And if there was anyone I'd want to be in
my pit crew up here in Alaska it'd be you. How are all your other teams
going to take it when you uproot and move to Alaska? Or
heaven forbid, build your own car (or bike) and start moochin' off their pit
crews :-)
I'll be sendin' protective services to pick them up tomorrow, unless you
already got a call today for them to schedule another
time to pick up. They're big boys so don't give them a hassle when they
come to serve papers. I know that they're your babies,
but all mommas gotta let them go sometime ;-P But then again you're
probably getting used to that, eh?
Wanted to say thanks for the hard work and attention to detail, and with any
luck you'll be bettin' your babies against each
other.
Mike,
Anchorage, Ak.
Just a post script for anyone else thinking of buying Warp motors and
sending them to Jim, or just buying WarP motors for general
use, pay the extra $50 or whatever George wants and get the wooden crate for
shipping. A crdboard box with a 150 lb motor will
statistically land on each and every surface multiple times if it goes by
truck, and on every corner too if it goes by air. Ask
me about my first one or see Eduardo about his repair job on a newly prep'd
Husted motor.
> Jim Husted wrote:
> ...................................... I figured they
> needed to be extra pretty to counter the Pintos ugly
> factor 8^P
> http://www.hitorqueelectric.com
>
> ............Mike seemed pretty happy, then
> again maybe he was just glad to see me 8^o
> Cya
> Jim Husted
> Hi-Torque Electric
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
...
on this controller is 150A, and the cruise current should be around 75 A.
This capacity should be sufficient to get me my 36 mile round trip
commute, but will probably only give me a couple years of use (commuting 3
or 4 times per week). The peak current on this controller is 150A. I
That is very low-powered!!! That does not sound right. The 'low-powered'
BLDC Force used a BRLS-11 and a 200A controller. That would get you about
22 hp out of the motor at maximum speed (although at a better efficiency-
around 90%). A better choice for Solectria would have been their BRLS-16
which gets around 30hp. That controller takes 144V and around 220A.
I would expect a 250A peak current into Azure's 'small' AC system,
an AC24 and DMOC445. You should be getting somewhere around 40kW of
mechanical power out of it which would be at least acceptable.
Keep in mind the motor/controller would like to see 156 volts
(13 batteries). A cruise of 75 amps seems a bit high for that class
of vehicle.
-Dale
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Remind us what kind of car, and what speeds you need?
AFAIK the Cursit can take 144 V, is that correct? If so, even a set of
Optima YT's will give you that much range in a Metro sized car or a small
pickup. If you can put Trojan's in weight-wise, that will give you almost
enough range to go without charging between runs, assuming slower than 60
MPH speeds.
During colder weather, of course. you would need to charge at your friends
house.
Joseph H. Strubhar
Web: www.gremcoinc.com
E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2007 5:51 AM
Subject: batteries: another increasing range question
When I originally planned my car, I didn't need much range: 8 miles round
trip. So I bought some batteries which did the job. That was a couple of
years ago. Starting the end of August, I will be going back to school to
finish my masters degree. That will be about a 28 mile trip. Last year I
had another car to get me to and from. But this year, I will need my
electric. I currently have the maximum number of batteries my curtis 1231
will allow. I need to buy a new battery pack (can we say newbi
battericide). So I have considered two options: one string of higher
capacity batteries, or multiple strings of the same capacity battery. I
should be able to charge while at school (a friend lives close). So 14
miles. I was initially thinking of buddy pairing two together, in one
string. Would this get me my 14 mile range without too much discharge?
Or would a buddy trio be bad? Or would a battery with double capacity be
better? I would appreciate all opinions on the !
subject, especially those who have tried running a single string and buddy
paired batteries.
Thanks,
Brian
---- Msg sent via @=WebMail - http://webmail.usu.edu/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ahhh yes, battricide. Been there, done that.
I needed to hear the fraction of your weight that
is in batteries vs. entire vehicle to make a guess to
this. I needed to know if you have a truck or small
car. I needed to know if you'll be on the freeway, or
regular roads. I need to know what wintertime temp.
you'll be facing; battery heater mats or no? All of
this adds up to determine your range. And an e-meter,
when programmed with the voltage and Ampere-hours in
the batteries, will have power bars that can tell you
what your range will be. My Civvy started off at 2220
lbs, and is now 3200. So roughly a third of the
weight is batteries; range is around 40 mi. without
stressing the batteries, and in summertime.
The more lead, the more range, no matter _how_ you
structure the batteries. Putting them in buddy pair
will generally limit your sag as you pull amps out.
It sounds like in your post you've already figured
out that higher voltage = less amp draw = less
resistance, and higher range, but as you mention,
you're at the limit of the controller. Most people,
myself included, don't have the luxury of adding on
more batteries, either in pairs, or one string: we've
maxed it out in the first place.
Hope that helps a little... BTW: Congratulations on
going back for the master's deg!
--- "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> When I originally planned my car, I didn't need much
> range: 8 miles round trip. So I bought some
> batteries which did the job. That was a couple of
> years ago. Starting the end of August, I will be
> going back to school to finish my masters degree.
> That will be about a 28 mile trip. Last year I had
> another car to get me to and from. But this year, I
> will need my electric. I currently have the maximum
> number of batteries my curtis 1231 will allow. I
> need to buy a new battery pack (can we say newbi
> battericide). So I have considered two options:
> one string of higher capacity batteries, or multiple
> strings of the same capacity battery. I should be
> able to charge while at school (a friend lives
> close). So 14 miles. I was initially thinking of
> buddy pairing two together, in one string. Would
> this get me my 14 mile range without too much
> discharge? Or would a buddy trio be bad? Or would
> a battery with double capacity be better? I would
> appreciate all opinions on the !
> subject, especially those who have tried running a
> single string and buddy paired batteries.
>
> Thanks,
> Brian
> ---- Msg sent via @=WebMail -
> http://webmail.usu.edu/
>
>
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? For $20 DVD you can purchase footage of my
'92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at: www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
____________________________________________________________________________________
The fish are biting.
Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing.
http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/arp/sponsoredsearch_v2.php
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Michael,
I run both the 11 inch and 9 inch in my EV, but not at the same time. While
one is in maintenance, I used the other.
The 11 inch is rated at 32hp at 165 volts at 175 amps at 6000 rpm
The 9 inch is rated at 42hp at 192 volts at 199 amps at 6000 rpm
The difference between the two motors, is the 11 inch will deliver about the
same amount of torque at 1500 rpm at a lower ampere than the 9 inch at 3000
rpm.
The maximum continuous amperage of the 9 inch is rated at 199 amperes while
the GE 11 inch has a Service Factor of 1.25 SF or can run at
165 x 1.25 = 206 volts at 175 x 1.25 = 218 amps continuous.
Both can take a over ampere of 600 for about a minute and is in seconds
above that.
The 9 inch at 1500 RPM in the same gear ratio will deliver twice the motor
ampere of the 11 inch at 1500 RPM but less torque.
The battery ampere for the 11 inch is 90 amperes at 60 mph, while the motor
ampere is about 190 amps. The battery ampere and motor ampere for the 9
inch is about the same at 260 amps.
The 9 inch is a standard DC WARP 9 motor, which requires a adapter plate and
motor coupler to attach to a transmission.
The 11 inch GE is a double end shaft traction DC motor, with built in end
bell that mates to any transmission, auto or manual. GE supplies the motor
coupler which had a brass liner that was about 0.01 under, so a 20 ton press
had to press it on by pushing on the ends of the motor shaft.
The transmission pilot shaft can pass completely through the motor coupler
and is inserted into a pilot bearing that is machine into the motor shaft.
This allows for a true exact alignment of about 0.001 inch.
I later had this coupler machine for a taperlock bushing.
The GE 11 also had 1/2 inch tapped bolt holes on the side, in the same
reference of a GM engine motor mount. All I had to do, was remove the
engine mounts of the engine and bolted them to the side of the motor. The
motor mounts are install at the same location as the engine mounts were.
This is a true traction motor.
Some time ago, I tried to get NetGain to make true traction motors. They
are getting close with there new TransWarp motors with more tapped bolt
holes for accessory mounts.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Mohlere" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2007 5:54 AM
Subject: seeking comments on EV motor sizing
> Is it as simple as an 11" motor has more HP than a 9" motor has more HP
> than
> an 8" motor, etc...or are there other factors (besides "will it fit") that
> need to be considered?
>
> Thanks, Mike
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_mini_pcmag_0507
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Anybody know what would trigger the brake light under a low vacuum
condition? If it is true, there would be a sensor somewhere. (I don't
know of one, but I would love to have one.
On 7/17/07, Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
--- Roger Stockton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> So CT requires a vacuum gauge or low vacuum buzzer in every ICE vehicle
> that has power brakes too? After all any vacuum system can develop a
> leak or otherwise fail, and many ICE vehicles have come factory equipped
> with electric vacuum pumps for the brakes and so are subject to all the
> failure modes that your EV might have...
>
I asked him the same thing. His response was that all cars have some kind of
brake warning light
and these are hooked in to vacuum. If you loose vacuum, the brake warning light
should come on. I
haven't tried it, but it sounds plausible. And since he conceded that I could
just install a
vacuum gage instead of a warning buzzer, I was happy. I found a nice little
1.5" gage, I just have
to find a place to put it. Not a lot of room in my dash, and all the automotive
gage supplies are
for 2" and larger gages. But I do have 1.5" hole saw, I just have to find
something to put a hole
in.
Dave Cover
--
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1059
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Michael,
A little more to it than that. Motor mass (weight) is
a good judge of the torque capability. More copper
and steel, more torque. Power is torque times speed.
So one would think more motor mass, more torque, more
power. But wait. The larger diameter motor may have
a lower speed limit. Larger diameter means more force
trying to make spinning parts disassemble at speed.
Then you have to consider the length of the motor, not
just the diameter. Some large diameter motors are
short and actually less torquey than smaller diameter
longer motors. But an inch of diameter gets you more
than an inch of length. Use DsquaredL for comparison.
And that should be the D and L for the armature
stack. But overall D and L is related.
Also entered into the mix is your application or
duty-cycle. You doing 10 second runs maxxed out or
putzing around town? This will affect the motor
cooling. Larger motors generally will have higher amp
rating, depending on the cooling and duty-cycle. But
if a large motor and a smaller one have the same size
brushes, then the short time base rating will be about
the same amperes.
Best to get the speed/torque curves and thermal
ratings for the particular motors you are considering.
That would be the right way to make the right choice.
Hope that helps.
Jeff
--- Michael Mohlere <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Is it as simple as an 11" motor has more HP than a
> 9" motor has more HP than
> an 8" motor, etc...or are there other factors
> (besides "will it fit") that
> need to be considered?
>
> Thanks, Mike
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
Looking for earth-friendly autos?
Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center.
http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I use a vacuum switch made by Square D company that I pick up from a
electrical supply house. It is water proof in a cast aluminum enclosure and
is fully adjustable from 0 to 22 in.hg. It has two normally open contacts
and two normally close contacts.
GE and Westinghouse also makes a vacuum switch equal to the above.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "storm connors" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2007 7:31 AM
Subject: Re: necessity of other gauges (12V and vacuum)
> Anybody know what would trigger the brake light under a low vacuum
> condition? If it is true, there would be a sensor somewhere. (I don't
> know of one, but I would love to have one.
>
> On 7/17/07, Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > --- Roger Stockton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > So CT requires a vacuum gauge or low vacuum buzzer in every ICE
> > > vehicle
> > > that has power brakes too? After all any vacuum system can develop a
> > > leak or otherwise fail, and many ICE vehicles have come factory
> > > equipped
> > > with electric vacuum pumps for the brakes and so are subject to all
> > > the
> > > failure modes that your EV might have...
> > >
> >
> > I asked him the same thing. His response was that all cars have some
> > kind of brake warning light
> > and these are hooked in to vacuum. If you loose vacuum, the brake
> > warning light should come on. I
> > haven't tried it, but it sounds plausible. And since he conceded that I
> > could just install a
> > vacuum gage instead of a warning buzzer, I was happy. I found a nice
> > little 1.5" gage, I just have
> > to find a place to put it. Not a lot of room in my dash, and all the
> > automotive gage supplies are
> > for 2" and larger gages. But I do have 1.5" hole saw, I just have to
> > find something to put a hole
> > in.
> >
> > Dave Cover
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1059
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am wondering if a set of floodies (or other batteries) too dead for
an EV will still be good for other uses.
In particular, I want to set up an off-grid PV solar system for a
friend's hunting cabin out in the sticks. I think the most load he'll
have is for a water pump. He says he wants 40A (I will double check
his requirements) but seems like some day when I kill my set of
T-125's they should still have enough life in them to do that...
When you take in your old PbA batteries to trade for new ones do you
get any money back for them?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Jeff, all
Great write up Jeff 8^) Now lets add to this mess
with whether two smaller motors are better than one
larger.
The larger motor will generally be more eff, but when
using two motors you get the benifit of a series /
parallel shift as well as "generally" higher rpm
ability as you state.
I've posted several times that a motors mass is an
easy (although rough) way for folks to judge a motors
abilities. Winding a slot car motor for 240 volts
wont get ya an EV motor 8^P
Although there are a lot of people using smaller
motors, I like to recommend that people use motors
that weigh a min of a 100 lbs. People using smaller
than that use forced air to cool it to increase it's
duty cycle.
Even then they are usually prone to shorter brush life
than those using motors of larger mass. In fact
anytime I hear about "brush wear" I think "well try
using a motor sized for the car" LMAO!
Anyway great write up Jeff, just thought I'd chime in
on a couple more things to concider when choosing a
motor. It may "all" be about batteries for EV'ers but
as last weekend showed your motor has to be able to
take what they can dish out as well 8^)
Hope this helps
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
--- Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Hey Michael,
>
> A little more to it than that. Motor mass (weight)
> is
> a good judge of the torque capability. More copper
> and steel, more torque. Power is torque times
> speed.
> So one would think more motor mass, more torque,
> more
> power. But wait. The larger diameter motor may
> have
> a lower speed limit. Larger diameter means more
> force
> trying to make spinning parts disassemble at speed.
>
> Then you have to consider the length of the motor,
> not
> just the diameter. Some large diameter motors are
> short and actually less torquey than smaller
> diameter
> longer motors. But an inch of diameter gets you
> more
> than an inch of length. Use DsquaredL for
> comparison.
> And that should be the D and L for the armature
> stack. But overall D and L is related.
>
> Also entered into the mix is your application or
> duty-cycle. You doing 10 second runs maxxed out or
> putzing around town? This will affect the motor
> cooling. Larger motors generally will have higher
> amp
> rating, depending on the cooling and duty-cycle.
> But
> if a large motor and a smaller one have the same
> size
> brushes, then the short time base rating will be
> about
> the same amperes.
>
> Best to get the speed/torque curves and thermal
> ratings for the particular motors you are
> considering.
> That would be the right way to make the right
> choice.
>
> Hope that helps.
>
> Jeff
>
>
>
> --- Michael Mohlere <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Is it as simple as an 11" motor has more HP than a
> > 9" motor has more HP than
> > an 8" motor, etc...or are there other factors
> > (besides "will it fit") that
> > need to be considered?
> >
> > Thanks, Mike
> >
>
>
>
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
> Looking for earth-friendly autos?
> Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos'
> Green Center.
> http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Check with McMaster.com and/or MSC.com. They both have a very wide
selection. Just make sure you get one that matches the belt width,
pitch and tooth profile.
Allen
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Dennis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2007 9:18 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Tropica Reducer
Regarding my previous post, all I can say is, "Ug, it's too early in the
morning." The "toothed belt acceptor" should have just said "pulley" --
a lot less keystrokes. :)
Bill Dennis
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Maybe I should pare down the question:
I was hoping a seasoned EV veteran could give me an opinion as to the
difference between a Prestolite MTC-4002 and an ADC 8" .... would the
difference be negligible? Would an EV w/ a Prestolite 4002 be preferable to
one w/ an ADC 8" or vice versa - I realize the ADC is the more "modern"
version, so the Prestolite would be older, but in terms of performance......
Sorry about beating this horse to death!!!
While I'm at it, anyone installed aftermarket a/c in an EV before...looking
for comments.
Thanks, Mike
From: Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: seeking comments on EV motor sizing
Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 07:06:03 -0700 (PDT)
Hey Jeff, all
Great write up Jeff 8^) Now lets add to this mess
with whether two smaller motors are better than one
larger.
The larger motor will generally be more eff, but when
using two motors you get the benifit of a series /
parallel shift as well as "generally" higher rpm
ability as you state.
I've posted several times that a motors mass is an
easy (although rough) way for folks to judge a motors
abilities. Winding a slot car motor for 240 volts
wont get ya an EV motor 8^P
Although there are a lot of people using smaller
motors, I like to recommend that people use motors
that weigh a min of a 100 lbs. People using smaller
than that use forced air to cool it to increase it's
duty cycle.
Even then they are usually prone to shorter brush life
than those using motors of larger mass. In fact
anytime I hear about "brush wear" I think "well try
using a motor sized for the car" LMAO!
Anyway great write up Jeff, just thought I'd chime in
on a couple more things to concider when choosing a
motor. It may "all" be about batteries for EV'ers but
as last weekend showed your motor has to be able to
take what they can dish out as well 8^)
Hope this helps
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
--- Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Hey Michael,
>
> A little more to it than that. Motor mass (weight)
> is
> a good judge of the torque capability. More copper
> and steel, more torque. Power is torque times
> speed.
> So one would think more motor mass, more torque,
> more
> power. But wait. The larger diameter motor may
> have
> a lower speed limit. Larger diameter means more
> force
> trying to make spinning parts disassemble at speed.
>
> Then you have to consider the length of the motor,
> not
> just the diameter. Some large diameter motors are
> short and actually less torquey than smaller
> diameter
> longer motors. But an inch of diameter gets you
> more
> than an inch of length. Use DsquaredL for
> comparison.
> And that should be the D and L for the armature
> stack. But overall D and L is related.
>
> Also entered into the mix is your application or
> duty-cycle. You doing 10 second runs maxxed out or
> putzing around town? This will affect the motor
> cooling. Larger motors generally will have higher
> amp
> rating, depending on the cooling and duty-cycle.
> But
> if a large motor and a smaller one have the same
> size
> brushes, then the short time base rating will be
> about
> the same amperes.
>
> Best to get the speed/torque curves and thermal
> ratings for the particular motors you are
> considering.
> That would be the right way to make the right
> choice.
>
> Hope that helps.
>
> Jeff
>
>
>
> --- Michael Mohlere <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Is it as simple as an 11" motor has more HP than a
> > 9" motor has more HP than
> > an 8" motor, etc...or are there other factors
> > (besides "will it fit") that
> > need to be considered?
> >
> > Thanks, Mike
> >
>
>
>
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
> Looking for earth-friendly autos?
> Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos'
> Green Center.
> http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go
with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started.
http://mobile.yahoo.com/mail
_________________________________________________________________
http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_mini_2G_0507
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Tue, 2007-07-17 at 01:09 -0400, Joseph T. wrote:
> "The motor controller is a strictly electromechanical affair"
>
> Really? Wikipedia claims that the Henney Kilowatt is "transistor-regulated)
I could be wrong, but I know what I've seen. A friend (maybe he'll speak
up here) owns a Kilowatt and I've driven it a number of times. I've seen
the contactors working while the car is in motion.
Perhaps they implemented a transistor-based controller on later
vehicles; I don't know. But I have seen no transistors or other
electronic systems at all in the one I've driven. Just a "CLUNK" "CLUNK
CLUNK" of contactors as you press the pedal, and a bit of a jerk (not
much) as the car switches between voltages. The system has every
appearance of being stock and an original part of the car.
Somewhere there's got to be a decent picture of the control board with
its contactor array. I'll dig around and see if I can find it.
--
Christopher Robison
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://ohmbre.org <-- 1999 Isuzu Hombre + Z2K + Warp13!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- Matt Graham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hey Mike,
>
> You don't ever have to worry about Jim having his
> own EV. He's been talking
> about it for a good couple of years now, but that's
> as far as it goes.
Hey Matt
Well actually I have an E-bike, a mini chopper, and
two pocket bikes, so maybe you could take off the
cleats and step off my balls 8^o
> He
> likes to remind me how slow 13.3 in the quarter mile
> is, though. Talk, talk,
> talk. . .then again, with the latest ETs, I'm
> starting to put myself asleep
> when I talk of mid 13-second quarter mile times.
I couldn't have said this better myself 8^P Hell give
me a couple pots of coffee and I could "walk" a 13.3
1/4 mile 8^) LMAO!!!!
Maybe if I didn't have to take all those free "Hey Jim
I broke my shaft" calls I might have the time and
money to do a "real" EV ROFLMAO!!!
>
> Those motors are beautiful and they clearly have no
> business ever being
> installed in a vehicle. Shine a light on them up on
> the mantle and you won't
> even need the fireplace underneath them!
Go ahead and fault me for liking a pretty motor! At
least Mike won't have to hide it's ugly ass under a
bunch of batteries to keep the public from seeing it,
hehehe. Besides it wasn't my fault, Mike said he
wanted "bling" so I gave him "bling" 8^o
>
> Seriously, now that you've got the motors I'm sure
> it won't be a problem to
> bring the Pinto and yourself down to South Florida
> in January for Battery
> Beach Burnout. See you there!>
> Matt Graham
Maybe, just maybe, if I can keep Wayland from breaking
his motor I can save enough to make it out to BBB next
year, but then again I'm not sure it'll be worth it
just to have you and Shawn busting my chops all
weekend 8^P
Anyway, you just keep sharpening those cleats up
buddy, you're gonna be needing some shaft work one of
these days, LMAO! Sorry I'll take my cleats off now
as I admit that for now I have to live my EV life
through you guys. In fact you guys are the heros and
I'm just the guy making the capes
Had fun
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
____________________________________________________________________________________
Choose the right car based on your needs. Check out Yahoo! Autos new Car
Finder tool.
http://autos.yahoo.com/carfinder/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Micheal
Nothing to do with old vs new. ADC copied a lot of
Prestolites stuff. Botom line, MTC= 80 lbs, ADC8= 125
lbs, you do the math, hehe. It really is that simple.
Now two MTC's (160 lbs) vs a 9" (150 lbs) is a better
question, Id bet on the two MTC's.
Hope this helps
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
--- Michael Mohlere <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Maybe I should pare down the question:
>
> I was hoping a seasoned EV veteran could give me an
> opinion as to the
> difference between a Prestolite MTC-4002 and an ADC
> 8" .... would the
> difference be negligible? Would an EV w/ a
> Prestolite 4002 be preferable to
> one w/ an ADC 8" or vice versa - I realize the ADC
> is the more "modern"
> version, so the Prestolite would be older, but in
> terms of performance......
>
> Sorry about beating this horse to death!!!
>
> While I'm at it, anyone installed aftermarket a/c in
> an EV before...looking
> for comments.
>
> Thanks, Mike
>
>
> From: Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Re: seeking comments on EV motor sizing
> Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 07:06:03 -0700 (PDT)
>
> Hey Jeff, all
>
> Great write up Jeff 8^) Now lets add to this mess
> with whether two smaller motors are better than one
> larger.
>
> The larger motor will generally be more eff, but
> when
> using two motors you get the benifit of a series /
> parallel shift as well as "generally" higher rpm
> ability as you state.
>
> I've posted several times that a motors mass is an
> easy (although rough) way for folks to judge a
> motors
> abilities. Winding a slot car motor for 240 volts
> wont get ya an EV motor 8^P
>
> Although there are a lot of people using smaller
> motors, I like to recommend that people use motors
> that weigh a min of a 100 lbs. People using smaller
> than that use forced air to cool it to increase it's
> duty cycle.
> Even then they are usually prone to shorter brush
> life
> than those using motors of larger mass. In fact
> anytime I hear about "brush wear" I think "well try
> using a motor sized for the car" LMAO!
>
> Anyway great write up Jeff, just thought I'd chime
> in
> on a couple more things to concider when choosing a
> motor. It may "all" be about batteries for EV'ers
> but
> as last weekend showed your motor has to be able to
> take what they can dish out as well 8^)
> Hope this helps
> Jim Husted
> Hi-Torque Electric
>
>
> --- Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >
> > Hey Michael,
> >
> > A little more to it than that. Motor mass
> (weight)
> > is
> > a good judge of the torque capability. More
> copper
> > and steel, more torque. Power is torque times
> > speed.
> > So one would think more motor mass, more torque,
> > more
> > power. But wait. The larger diameter motor may
> > have
> > a lower speed limit. Larger diameter means more
> > force
> > trying to make spinning parts disassemble at
> speed.
> >
> > Then you have to consider the length of the
> motor,
> > not
> > just the diameter. Some large diameter motors
> are
> > short and actually less torquey than smaller
> > diameter
> > longer motors. But an inch of diameter gets you
> > more
> > than an inch of length. Use DsquaredL for
> > comparison.
> > And that should be the D and L for the armature
> > stack. But overall D and L is related.
> >
> > Also entered into the mix is your application or
> > duty-cycle. You doing 10 second runs maxxed out
> or
> > putzing around town? This will affect the motor
> > cooling. Larger motors generally will have
> higher
> > amp
> > rating, depending on the cooling and duty-cycle.
> > But
> > if a large motor and a smaller one have the same
> > size
> > brushes, then the short time base rating will be
> > about
> > the same amperes.
> >
> > Best to get the speed/torque curves and thermal
> > ratings for the particular motors you are
> > considering.
> > That would be the right way to make the right
> > choice.
> >
> > Hope that helps.
> >
> > Jeff
> >
> >
> >
> > --- Michael Mohlere <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > > Is it as simple as an 11" motor has more HP
> than a
> > > 9" motor has more HP than
> > > an 8" motor, etc...or are there other factors
> > > (besides "will it fit") that
> > > need to be considered?
> > >
> > > Thanks, Mike
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
> > Looking for earth-friendly autos?
> > Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo!
> Autos'
> > Green Center.
> > http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
> No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go
> with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started.
> http://mobile.yahoo.com/mail
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
>
http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_mini_2G_0507
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles. Visit the
Yahoo! Auto Green Center.
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--- End Message ---
