EV digest 6654
EV Digest 6654 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: EV APU (genset) emissions FE by john fisher [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2) Re: EV APU (genset) emissions FE by Lee Hart [EMAIL PROTECTED] 3) Re: Getting Highschools started in EV conversions? by Lee Hart [EMAIL PROTECTED] 4) Re: EV APU (genset) emissions FE by john fisher [EMAIL PROTECTED] 5) Re: EV APU (genset) emissions FE by George Swartz [EMAIL PROTECTED] 6) Looking for hybrid listproc by Alan Gideon [EMAIL PROTECTED] 7) Re: EV APU (genset) emissions FE by Peter VanDerWal [EMAIL PROTECTED] 8) Regen is a bit better than you think (was: EV APU (genset) emissions FE) by Bill Dube [EMAIL PROTECTED] 9) Kokam LiPoly Batts by Steve Peterson [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10) Re: Kokam LiPoly Batts by Timothy Balcer [EMAIL PROTECTED] 11) Re: Kokam LiPoly Batts by Ian Hooper [EMAIL PROTECTED] 12) Regen wiring idea/question by Michael Barkley [EMAIL PROTECTED] 13) EVLN(Otmar Ebenhoech on Peak Moment Television) by bruce parmenter [EMAIL PROTECTED] 14) EVLN(3wheel AC Flybo EV: 90mph, 150mi range, slide out Li packs in Oct07) by bruce parmenter [EMAIL PROTECTED] 15) Re: Kokam LiPoly Batts by Marcin Ciosek [EMAIL PROTECTED] 16) Wise A** Bad Boy Charger by [EMAIL PROTECTED] 17) Re: C,mm,n (common) open source car project by Dutch universities by peekay [EMAIL PROTECTED] 18) RE: Regen wiring idea/question by Cor van de Water [EMAIL PROTECTED] 19) RE: Regen wiring idea/question by Mike Willmon [EMAIL PROTECTED] 20) OT: Oklahoma - Alternative Fuels Act by Michael Barkley [EMAIL PROTECTED] 21) Re: Kokam LiPoly Batts by Steve Peterson [EMAIL PROTECTED] 22) largish brushless motors available by Kaido Kert [EMAIL PROTECTED] 23) Re: largish brushless motors available by Rod Hower [EMAIL PROTECTED] 24) Re: largish brushless motors available by John Wayland [EMAIL PROTECTED] 25) Re: Wise A** Bad Boy Charger by Lee Hart [EMAIL PROTECTED] 26) Re: largish brushless motors available by Kaido Kert [EMAIL PROTECTED] ---BeginMessage--- Well I am still researching the emissions benefits from stationary engines converted to propane. That ratio should apply to the propane genset. One aspect thats got lost in the hue and cry over cheap gensets, is the advantage of regen. It seems to me that one of the major benefits of a pluggable hybrid over a high-mileage gas car is the ability to recover that braking energy. Unfortunately most on this list haven't developed a system for it. So far I hear of AC motors in the +$3000 range and the DD sepex DC shunt-type motor at about the same cost as standard DC motor and controller. Some have discussed adding a separate generator/alternator driven with some system of clutches, but that seems to violate my weight and complexity goals, compared to the benefits. Any other regen options? How is the DD sepex-regen-controller option, anybody used it? JF childreypa wrote: If I may weigh in on this subject... I have long wanted to post something on this. I absolutely agree that a Home depot generator is just not smart. However, what if you were to run a generator using a driver designed with efficiency and greenness in mind. Say a 1.0L Geo metro engine. Running at constant rpm, powering an efficient generator, I hypothesize that it would be possible to get just as good gpm as the metro and still have the all electric capability provided the ICE was mounted in the vehicle. Anyway, this is my project so Ill let you know over the summer. Not to drag this out of it's a dead post. Paul -Original Message- F ---End Message--- ---BeginMessage--- john fisher wrote: regen... It seems to me that one of the major benefits of a pluggable hybrid over a high-mileage gas car is the ability to recover that braking energy. Unfortunately most on this list haven't developed a system for it. Regen is great if you do a lot of stop-and-go driving, or have lots of hills. But in typical driving, it only provides 5-15% more range. Considering the additional cost and complexity, most simple budget EV conversions leave regen out. -- Ring the bells that still can ring Forget the perfect offering There is a crack in everything That's how the light gets in--Leonard Cohen -- Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net ---End Message--- ---BeginMessage--- Lowell Simmons wrote: I hope there are some educators out there that get into EV Conversions. Yes! I think that's a wonderful idea. I am an Automotive instructor, but we incorporate our conversions into as much of the total school as possible. I would really like to push educator involvement into the EV Challenge (EVChallenge.org). That's what I've found works the best, too. In regular classes,
EV digest 6655
EV Digest 6655 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Misco Refractometer for Specific Gravity measurements by JS [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2) Re: largish brushless motors available by Evan Tuer [EMAIL PROTECTED] 3) Re: largish brushless motors available by Evan Tuer [EMAIL PROTECTED] 4) Re: Fantasy batteries by robert mat [EMAIL PROTECTED] 5) Re: bulging case a visual sign of a bad floodie? by robert mat [EMAIL PROTECTED] 6) Re: largish brushless motors available by Kaido Kert [EMAIL PROTECTED] 7) Re: Oklahoma - Alternative Fuels Act, Regs an' Stuff by Bob Rice [EMAIL PROTECTED] 8) Re: largish brushless motors available by Evan Tuer [EMAIL PROTECTED] 9) Re: Kokam LiPoly Batts by Marcin Ciosek [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10) Prius Hackers needed by Chip Gribben [EMAIL PROTECTED] 11) Re: largish brushless motors available by Peter Gabrielsson [EMAIL PROTECTED] 12) Lithium production, was: Fantasy batteries by Christopher Robison [EMAIL PROTECTED] 13) Re: EV APU (genset) emissions FE by Jeff Major [EMAIL PROTECTED] 14) Re: Regen is a bit better than you think by Tom Watson [EMAIL PROTECTED] 15) Re: Misco Refractometer for Specific Gravity measurements by Frank John [EMAIL PROTECTED] 16) HOW TO DRIVE AN EV FOR MAXIMUM RANGE. Re: EVLN(Tofu maker Toya pulses glides his hybrid to nenpimania) by robert mat [EMAIL PROTECTED] 17) Re: largish brushless motors available by Kaido Kert [EMAIL PROTECTED] 18) Re: Balancing Lithium batterys - how does this work? by Scott Littledike [EMAIL PROTECTED] 19) Re: EV APU (genset) emissions FE by john fisher [EMAIL PROTECTED] 20) RE: HOW TO DRIVE AN EV FOR MAXIMUM RANGE. Re: EVLN(Tofu maker Toya pulses glides his hybrid to nenpimania) by Paschke, Stephen [EMAIL PROTECTED] 21) Re: Wise A** Bad Boy Charger by Tim Humphrey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ---BeginMessage--- I got my Misco Model 7064VP-Plus yesterday. (139.98 included shipping). After checking the specific gravity of 33 flooded cells I will never use a float type hydrometer again! 1. Ease of use. 2. Accuracy 3. Cleaner. No dripping acid. 4. The applicator can be used to check acid level by watching for the meniscus to form and seeing how much farther down to the top of the plates. 5. Faster. 6. Temperature compensated. 7. It also works for anti-freeze. 8. Easy to check calibration using distilled water. I ordered it at www.misco.com Thanks for the suggestion! John in Sylmar, CA PV EV ---End Message--- ---BeginMessage--- On 4/11/07, Kaido Kert [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Seriously, people have shown interest in UQM PM brushless motors for example, but UQM isnt selling. The RC BLDC motors are (somewhat) similar in operating principle and construction, and its reasonable that one or few manufacturers would be willing to grow and sell for EV hobbyists as well. The power range already starts to show up, with enough interest, experimentation and trialerror they might even be willing to design some stuff for There's a group which are building their own motors (having laminations pressed and so on) - there is software and instructions for designing them: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lrk-torquemax/ - this was introduced on this list by Ron van Sommeren some time ago. I think that this is one of the motors which has come from this ethos, a 30kW peak motor which weighs only 7.5kG. www.rc-unionen.dk/nytforum/uploads/9302/2006918173952_Aspach%202006%201.JPG http://www.rs-e-motoren.de/joomla/index.php?option=com_contenttask=viewid=86Itemid=79 Even this monster motor is small in conventional EV scale, but it shows what could be possible (e.g. for a geared hub motor) with the appliance of science :) ---End Message--- ---BeginMessage--- Correction, that motor is rated 30kW for 30 minutes.. That's about the same as my EV, except its motor weighs 72kG rather than 7.5 :) On 4/11/07, Evan Tuer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 4/11/07, Kaido Kert [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Seriously, people have shown interest in UQM PM brushless motors for example, but UQM isnt selling. The RC BLDC motors are (somewhat) similar in operating principle and construction, and its reasonable that one or few manufacturers would be willing to grow and sell for EV hobbyists as well. The power range already starts to show up, with enough interest, experimentation and trialerror they might even be willing to design some stuff for There's a group which are building their own motors (having laminations pressed and so on) - there is software and instructions for designing them: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lrk-torquemax/ - this was introduced on this list by Ron van Sommeren some time ago. I think that this is one of the motors which has come from this ethos, a 30kW peak motor which weighs only 7.5kG.
EV digest 6656
EV Digest 6656 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Regen is a bit better than you think by john fisher [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2) Re: largish brushless motors available by Kaido Kert [EMAIL PROTECTED] 3) Re: HOW TO DRIVE AN EV FOR MAXIMUM RANGE. Re: EVLN(Tofu maker Toya pulses glides his hybrid to nenpimania) by Danny Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] 4) Re: HOW TO DRIVE AN EV FOR MAXIMUM RANGE. Re: EVLN(Tofu maker Toya pulses glides his hybrid to nenpimania) by Jeff Mccabe [EMAIL PROTECTED] 5) Re: EVLN(Kind to Man technology: 3Wheel Mahindra E-Bijlees)-long by peekay [EMAIL PROTECTED] 6) Re: C,mm,n (common) open source car project by Dutch universities by peekay [EMAIL PROTECTED] 7) RE: Zener reg question by Cor van de Water [EMAIL PROTECTED] 8) Re: EV APU (genset) emissions FE by David Roden (Akron OH USA) [EMAIL PROTECTED] 9) Re: Kokam LiPoly Batts by Peter VanDerWal [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10) Re: Regen wiring idea/question by Peter VanDerWal [EMAIL PROTECTED] 11) Re: Regen is a bit better than you think (was: EV APU (genset) emissions FE) by Peter VanDerWal [EMAIL PROTECTED] 12) Re: Kokam LiPoly Batts by Marcin Ciosek [EMAIL PROTECTED] 13) Re: EV APU (genset) emissions FE by john fisher [EMAIL PROTECTED] 14) RE: Sprint/Metro Drivetrain losses by Roger Stockton [EMAIL PROTECTED] 15) RE: EV APU (genset) emissions FE by Dave Cover [EMAIL PROTECTED] 16) Re: Prius Hackers needed by Danny Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] 17) Re: HOW TO DRIVE AN EV FOR MAXIMUM RANGE. Re: EVLN(Tofu maker Toya pulses glides his hybrid to nenpimania) by mike young [EMAIL PROTECTED] ---BeginMessage--- thanks Bill and Tom, I notice that most of the E-bike kits use regen. I haven't driven in much light traffic the last few years, and I moved out of LA. But point taken. Tom Watson wrote: Hi on my electric moped I found ways to increase my use of regen ... Tom -- You get a bit more than you would first think from regen. ... On the highway, or in light traffic that allows you to drive efficiently without using the brakes, regen makes no difference. It is also expensive to add to a DC drive system. It is generally much cheaper to simply add another battery or two. Bill Dube' ---End Message--- ---BeginMessage--- bytheway, i just watched a video clip of Tesla VP being filmed close up, the interesting new bit was that its motor was out on the display and filmed close up http://www.dannyscontentment.net/dannys_contentment/2007/04/the_tesla_part_.html ( the motor shot is 1:10 into the video ) It looks really really small, for the power it must output. And its an induction AC motor. I wonder what the kg/KW ratio of this one would be. Also, what a chinese copy would cost ? ;) -kert On 4/11/07, Kaido Kert [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There are ones with hall sensors available, and adding three sensors to an existing motor shaft does not break the bank either. Sensored design should be better anyway for better low-speed control and torque. BTW, most of the RC ESCs or controllers drive the motors using trapezoidal commutation, but there are some available that drive with sine wave which makes for even better efficiency , lower losses in motor and thus lower heating, and also makes the torque smoother ( less or no cogging ) -kert On 4/11/07, Peter Gabrielsson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Don't forget that RC airplane brushless controllers are usually sensorless designs. In order to find the rotor position they will jerk the motor back and forth for a few seconds before starting up. This is obviously not very desirable in a car. On 4/11/07, Kaido Kert [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: hey, i stumbled on these: RC BLDC motor makers have scaled their offerings up increasingly, and now you can get a complete 15KW system from them. for example Hacker A200 motor with a MasterSpin 300 controller would cost around $1600 With a pair of those, you could move a light car. There are other alternatives ( Plettenburg has Predator 37/06 in the same power range ) So for a $3200, you'd be running what is essentially a 30KW AC system ( as BLDC motors differ from PMAC motors only in winding distributions on stator ) There would be quite a lot of mechanical work though, as the motors are intended to be mounted on RC airplanes. They are very lightweight for their available max power, however. Now, if the demand is there, i believe those same manufacturers would be willing to ship a line of motors and controllers modified for EV apps. anyone interested ? -kert -- www.electric-lemon.com ---End Message--- ---BeginMessage--- It sounds like you're referring to the bump and glide technique the Prius hackers rave about. I am not wholly convinced it is indeed for real but keep an
EV digest 6657
EV Digest 6657 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Regen-smeegen, how about REHEAT? by Tom Gocze [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2) RE: EV APU (genset) emissions FE by David Roden (Akron OH USA) [EMAIL PROTECTED] 3) Re: Zener reg question by Lee Hart [EMAIL PROTECTED] 4) ReVolt, Chelsea and Chris and the Power of DC by Joseph Lado [EMAIL PROTECTED] 5) Re: EV APU (genset) emissions FE by Phil Marino [EMAIL PROTECTED] 6) Where Have All the Bees Gone? by GWMobile [EMAIL PROTECTED] 7) EVLN(Otmar Ebenhoech on Peak Moment Television) by bruce parmenter [EMAIL PROTECTED] 8) EVLN(Austin, TX EV rebates: only for new nEVs, Escooters, Ebicycles) by bruce parmenter [EMAIL PROTECTED] 9) EVLN(42,000 electric 3wheel taxi cabs for Mexico) by bruce parmenter [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10) EVLN(China's rare earth used in future EVs) by bruce parmenter [EMAIL PROTECTED] 11) EVLN(NC DOE WI grant$ EV project funding) by bruce parmenter [EMAIL PROTECTED] 12) Re: EV APU (genset) emissions FE by john fisher [EMAIL PROTECTED] 13) Re: Getting Highschools started in EV conversions? by Bob Bath [EMAIL PROTECTED] ---BeginMessage--- Been thinking about coming down Mt. Washington and all the talk about regen and braking electrically. Can anyone tell me if this might toast a controller?: How about a big braking resistor, like I use for contactor controllers that comes across the motor connections either manually via a relay or automatically, whenever you hit the brake real hard? Would that bother a Curtis controller when it is not powering the motor? Would seem not to?? Given Mt. Washington is a lot like Maine, we could use the heat, as well as in any EV in the northern tier of states for a lot of the year. Tom in Maine (was a little chilly yesterday) ---End Message--- ---BeginMessage--- On 10 Apr 2007 at 11:58, childreypa wrote: However, what if you were to run a generator using a driver designed with efficiency and greenness in mind. Say a 1.0L Geo metro engine. Running at constant rpm, powering an efficient generator, I hypothesize that it would be possible to get just as good gpm as the metro and still have the all electric capability provided the ICE was mounted in the vehicle. Running an automotive ICE at a constant speed, and tuning it for that speed, made a big difference 30 or 40 years ago when ICEs were fitted with fixed-jet carburetors, and the sum of their adjustment for varying speeds and loads was vacuum and centrifugal ignition advance. In those days, series hybrids could actually produce improved mpg by leveling the load on the engine, so it could be optimized for that load. Today ICEs have computers talking with sophisticated sensors for operating conditions. The computers control electronic fuel injection, ignition timing, and even valve timing. In modern ICEs, there's little if anything to be gained by fixed-speed operation. Any gain will be more than offset by the losses in energy conversion to electricity. Serial hybrids are now very difficult to optimize for efficiency. Someone pointed out that AC Propulsion's Honda Civic conversion could make 35 mpg on the highway with its genset trailer. That's pretty good - you'd expect no less from a smart engineer like Alan Cocconi. However, my Honda Civic VX ICE - same vintage as his conversion - can easily hit 50 mpg on the highway (it's EPA rated at 56 mpg). Also keep in mind the difficult problem of controlling emissions in an engine that is shut down and restarted. Every restart means higher exhaust emissions until the control system again warms up and stabilizes. The quasi- hybrids from Toyota and Honda would get even better mpg if they didn't have to program the computers to watch out for this issue. Getting the catalytic converter up to temperature and keeping it there is a priority for these cars. Bottom line is that a good strategy for maximizing your transportation efficiency is to have two vehicles in your household - an EV for short trips, and an ICE for longer ones. (Actually, a bicycle or even an e-bike in the mix would improve the efficiency even more.) The next best strategy (perhaps more practical for some) is a parallel hybrid. A series hybrid will be much further down the list. ---End Message--- ---BeginMessage--- Frank John wrote: I installed Lee's zener diode regs on my small m-cycle conversion (36 VDC) and am noticing that the third (most +'ve) light isn't as bright as the other two (I'm using three 12 volt agm batteries). The most -'ve battery reads .1 volt higher than the middle battery, and the middle battery reads .1 VDC higher than the last (most +'ve) battery. It appears that there's not enough current being bypassed. Is this a correct assumption? I'm thinking that another bulb in parallel with the PR2 might help. While I'm
EV digest 6658
EV Digest 6658 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Interesting quote by Jeff Shanab [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2) Re: EV APU (genset) emissions FE by john fisher [EMAIL PROTECTED] 3) Re: HOW TO DRIVE AN EV FOR MAXIMUM RANGE. Re: EVLN(Tofu maker Toya pulses glid by Phil Marino [EMAIL PROTECTED] 4) EV article needed by G. Strawbridge [EMAIL PROTECTED] 5) Re: EV APU (genset) emissions FE by john fisher [EMAIL PROTECTED] 6) RE: Future Killacycle VIDEOS - Please ?? by Bill Dube [EMAIL PROTECTED] 7) Genesis 16XE's and Oddyssey PC680's by MIKE WILLMON [EMAIL PROTECTED] 8) Buying new batteries, maybe more by Matt Kenigson [EMAIL PROTECTED] 9) Re: Zener reg question by Frank John [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10) OFF TOPIC: Where Have All the Bees Gone? by David Roden (Akron OH USA) [EMAIL PROTECTED] 11) Re: Regen-smeegen, how about REHEAT? by Jeff Major [EMAIL PROTECTED] 12) Motor supplier by Timothy Balcer [EMAIL PROTECTED] 13) RE: Where Have All the Bees Gone? by Randy Burleson [EMAIL PROTECTED] 14) Re: Zener reg question by MIKE WILLMON [EMAIL PROTECTED] 15) RE: Regen is a bit better than you think (was: EV APU (genset) emissions FE) by Dale Ulan [EMAIL PROTECTED] 16) Re: Buying new batteries, maybe more by MIKE WILLMON [EMAIL PROTECTED] 17) Re: Buying new batteries, maybe more by Roland Wiench [EMAIL PROTECTED] 18) Re: Zener reg question by Paul G. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 19) Re: EV APU (genset) emissions FE by Michaela Merz [EMAIL PROTECTED] 20) Re: Buying new batteries, maybe more by Frank John [EMAIL PROTECTED] 21) Re: Zener reg question by Frank John [EMAIL PROTECTED] 22) Re: EV APU (genset) emissions FE by Lee Hart [EMAIL PROTECTED] 23) Re: Future Killacycle VIDEOS - Please ?? by [EMAIL PROTECTED] 24) RE: Regen wiring idea/question by Peter VanDerWal [EMAIL PROTECTED] 25) RE: EV APU (genset) emissions FE by Dale Ulan [EMAIL PROTECTED] 26) RE: Buying new batteries, maybe more by Roger Stockton [EMAIL PROTECTED] 27) Re: EV APU (genset) emissions FE by Peter VanDerWal [EMAIL PROTECTED] ---BeginMessage--- I just got a quote from a Chinese company for lifepo4 cells. (kinda unconfirmed so just a data point for the trends) Problem is low power/high capacity cells, Another argument for a hybrid pack. $2/ah 50ah cell is 1.18 x 5.9 x 8.26 and weights 4.73lbs 3.15 nominal, 3.65 EOC Voltage, LV cut-toff 2.3V 2C max continous means only 100A and the graphs show it sagging to 3V 3C for 15Sec burst but sags to 2.8V 5C sags below 2.5V Cyclelife at 1C to still 95% capacity, over 1000 cycles. so 50ah 300V pack is 95S1P. That is 450lbs. and $9500.00 Hu. The nice part is less connections than all those 26650's ---End Message--- ---BeginMessage--- well we can't go too far on heavy truck hybrids here since this is supposed to be a BEV list, so I just have to say thats what I remember from a quick read of news items a while back. Also I can't figure out any other way. Some are saying they will use hydraulic storage too, instead of batteries. Thats not a relevant technology for cars, for sure. JF Phil Marino wrote: From: john fisher [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu Subject: Re: EV APU (genset) emissions FE Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 17:29:29 -0700 and yet its my impression that the new hybrid trucks get most or all of their increased efficiency from regen. John - can you tell why you have this impression? ---End Message--- ---BeginMessage--- From: Danny Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu Subject: Re: HOW TO DRIVE AN EV FOR MAXIMUM RANGE. Re: EVLN(Tofu maker Toya pulses glides his hybrid to nenpimania) Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 13:29:49 -0500 It sounds like you're referring to the bump and glide technique the Prius hackers rave about. I am not wholly convinced it is indeed for real but keep an open mind. However, assuming it is, it's due to a quirk in the way their ICE works. For an EV, the vehicle needs X kwh/mi to counter aero and wheel drag to maintain a certain speed. Allowing it to coast down, then speed up, should not have any efficiency gain. This means half the time the motor puts out 0 KW and the other half 2*X KW. Unless you put it in neutral, the tranny and motor turning losses still apply. Fine - so put it in neutral and save these losses.. Motor losses typically are not linear so running it at twice the power for half the time is worse off efficiency wise. Motor efficiency does vary with load. But, the best efficiency is typically somewhere in the middle of a motor's load range. If it is loaded too lightly, the fan and brush friction losses dominate. If it is loaded too heavily, the I^2R losses
EV digest 6659
EV Digest 6659 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: bulging case a visual sign of a bad floodie? - Not really by Lawrence Harris [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2) Re: EV APU (genset) emissions FE by Lee Hart [EMAIL PROTECTED] 3) Re: Zener reg question by Lee Hart [EMAIL PROTECTED] 4) Re: HOW TO DRIVE AN EV FOR MAXIMUM RANGE. Re: EVLN(Tofu maker Toya pulses glides his hybrid to nenpimania) by Michael Perry [EMAIL PROTECTED] 5) Re: EV APU (genset) emissions FE by John O'Connor [EMAIL PROTECTED] 6) Re: EV APU (genset) emissions FE by David Roden (Akron OH USA) [EMAIL PROTECTED] 7) The Costs of Racing EVs by John Wayland [EMAIL PROTECTED] 8) RE: HOW TO DRIVE AN EV FOR MAXIMUM RANGE. Re: EVLN(Tofu maker Toya pulses glides his hybrid to nenpimania) by childreypa [EMAIL PROTECTED] 9) EVLN(SF Bay Area Car-pool-lane Sticker Thefts) by bruce parmenter [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10) RE: EV APU (genset) emissions FE by childreypa [EMAIL PROTECTED] 11) EVLN(UK milesautomotive nEV 60mi range, no reverse) by bruce parmenter [EMAIL PROTECTED] 12) EVLN(Actor Larry Hagman Drives An Electric Vehicle) by bruce parmenter [EMAIL PROTECTED] 13) EVLN(USSC rule state's emissions laws Yes, automakers argue No) by bruce parmenter [EMAIL PROTECTED] 14) EVLN(Jp: 2015 EVs should cost slightly more than a minicar) by bruce parmenter [EMAIL PROTECTED] 15) EVLN(UK family singled out for wanting to drive Electric) by bruce parmenter [EMAIL PROTECTED] 16) RE: EV APU (genset) emissions FE by David Roden (Akron OH USA) [EMAIL PROTECTED] ---BeginMessage--- Yes that is my understanding too, that as the battery ages the plates corrode and expand, this is a normal part of the aging process and does not mean the battery is bad. Deep discharges and excessive overcharging speed up this process and in some cases also cause shorts to develop. Nothing directly to do with failed valves. If the valves ever open you are charging the battery too hard and the venting causes irreplaceable loss of water - again leading to another different failure mode. The example of a EV bike dealer complaining the valves don't open and implying the bulging batteries have been killed due to this needs to do some homework and probably needs to find a better battery charger to sell their clients. Cheap chargers over charge the batteries, cause corrosion, bulging, shorts and if the valves open dry out the electrolyte and kill the battery before it's time. Uneducated riders over discharge their batteries causing sulfation, loss of plate area and kill the battery before it's time. Put the two together and you have a very dissatisfied customer! All lead acid batteries eventually fail due to one or both of plate corrosion, sulfation and loss of water. These lead to loss of active material or active surface area and ether the battery looses so much capacity it is useless for it's intended purpose or develops an internal short and can no longer hold a charge. Careful charging and with non sealed batteries watering will give you the maximum life but there comes a time when you have too look the batteries in the eye and say 'you have been a good and true friend but it's time to move on to the next phase in the great cycle of life' :-) and look for the nearest recycling depot. There has been much discussion of various magic formula to slow down or reverse some of these processes but no one in all the years I have watched this group has ever shown any demonstrative proof that anything but TLC can extend the life of a lead acid battery and nothing has ever been demonstrated that can revive a dead battery to a point that it could be returned to useful service in and EV. There has been lots of talk but never any rigorous data. I would encourage Robert to discuss his 'no cost batteries for EV' in a detailed posting but I truly believe that he is just picking the OK batteries from a pile of suspect ones, charging them individually and then doing the re-use part of the three R's and hence slightly reducing the number of batteries that need to be purchased over time. The trouble is the cost of keeping an mismatched odd ball pack of batteries in line is costly in either electronics or manual labor or both. Lawrence Harris robert mat wrote: Also, on VRLAs (sealed) on ebikes, my guess is that the valves aren't releasing. Very cheap build, and mfg cheated by not putting in valves, imho, like on the Raylight ebikes. Raylight vendor told me 100% of his batteries bulged at the end of battery life. David Roden [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think this results from positive grid corrosion - typically a symptom of chronic overcharging. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EV List Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Want to
