Re: [EVDL] pouch cells
Sounds like LTO cell to me. Not standard LMP or LCO. Maybe some LiFePO4 variant. That spec tells it cycles well which is nice for such use. EV is not one of those applications. Nothing new under the sun I'd say. -Jukka http://www.google.com/profiles/jarviju#about 2015-05-12 5:56 GMT+03:00 Bill Dube via EV ev@lists.evdl.org: Dial it back just a bit. No need to be abusive. On 5/11/2015 7:59 PM, Michael Ross via EV wrote: You provided nothing that would help us answer your question. Not even the name of the reseller or manufacturer. What kind of inquiry is that? If you won't tell us, or show us, then there can be no real answer. 4000 cycles at %90 dod This is a mostly meaningless specification. Taking lithium cells to 90% DOD does absolutely nothing bad to them. What might mess them up regarding DOD is if they were not consistent in their capacity and construction - so that they would not age well together for the life of the pack. What you want to know with certainty, is the voltage at 100% SOC (or somewhat lower for a factor of safety). And then the temperature beyond which the cells should not go when at a high SOC. You need to know the recommended high cutoff voltage that is sufficient to protect the cells regardless of temperature. You need to be sure your charger never pushes the cells beyond the max SOC%. If you do push voltage and SOC% higher you need to know the activation temperature of the system (positive electrode and electrolyte composition) and never let the pack exceed that temperature when the cells at at a high SOC%. What will the life of the cells be? Unless a thorough study using high precision coulometry has been performed, then you will mostly have no idea the expected life of the cells. Traditional testing tells you nothing much about the expected life. The old methods take far too long to give results and no one ever runs them long enough to get an estimate that is very certain. On Mon, May 11, 2015 at 9:00 PM, ken via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: I saw some pouch cells that claim 4000 cycles at %90 dod. any one tested theses. How are they for $ vs. power density. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150512/1a6cb19c/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] pouch cells
http://www.electriccarpartscompany.com/-NEW-ENERGY-br-4000-CHARGE-CYCLES--20-AH_c_138.html I saw some pouch cells that claim 4000 cycles at %90 dod. any one tested theses. How are they for $ vs. power density. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] pouch cells
On May 12, 2015, at 12:33 PM, ken via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: How are they for $ vs. power density. Middle of the road, and a lot more than a LEAF battery from Hybrid Auto Center. They're also rather below average in terms of $ / max discharge rate, and on the heavy side. b ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] pouch cells
They are LFP so you have to be careful not to have them at 100% SOC and over 104°F or so. This will damage them. They suggest a charge up to 3.65V. I think that is too high. Guessing, anything over 3.45V is nearly pointless and just puts the cell in a more reactive (a bad thing) chemical state. They don't tell enough about the cycle life to guess what your actual cycle life will be. To run 4000 cycles, the cycle times were no where near the length of real life. A 1 hour cycle would take 167 days to complete. Probably the testing was at room temperature, which does not stress them at all. If you don't stress the cells then it doesn't tell you much, because nothing really goes wrong at 25°C. Your best bet is to stop charging them at a lower voltage (plan on less capacity). If you think the cells are going to be fully charged, then discharge them some if they are going to sit in a hot place. Cell temperatures will be higher than ambient - so again, you can't have them at a high SOC and in hot weather. Go up a steep hill fast, soon after you start riding; unless you know the charging cut off voltage is low and accurate. On Tue, May 12, 2015 at 3:33 PM, ken via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: http://www.electriccarpartscompany.com/-NEW-ENERGY-br-4000-CHARGE-CYCLES--20-AH_c_138.html I saw some pouch cells that claim 4000 cycles at %90 dod. any one tested theses. How are they for $ vs. power density. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk. Thomas A. Edison http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/t/thomasaed125362.html A public-opinion poll is no substitute for thought. *Warren Buffet* Michael E. Ross (919) 585-6737 Land (919) 576-0824 https://www.google.com/voice/b/0?pli=1#phones Google Phone (919) 631-1451 Cell michael.e.r...@gmail.com michael.e.r...@gmail.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150512/aa022408/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] pouch cells
They also offer pouch cells, but this battery is aluminum encased so not a pouch. Cor van de Water Chief Scientist Proxim Wireless office +1 408 383 7626 Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP +31 87 784 1130 private: cvandewater.info www.proxim.com This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation. If you received this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender. Any unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of this message is prohibited. -Original Message- From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of ken via EV Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2015 12:34 PM To: Jukka Järvinen; Electric Vehicle Discussion List Subject: Re: [EVDL] pouch cells http://www.electriccarpartscompany.com/-NEW-ENERGY-br-4000-CHARGE-CYCLES--20-AH_c_138.html I saw some pouch cells that claim 4000 cycles at %90 dod. any one tested theses. How are they for $ vs. power density. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
[EVDL] EVLN: Batteries 10 Biggest Manufacturers, history, WattIf-1/6price
The history, and future, of batteries How Much Would the Storage Market Change if Batteries Were One-Sixth the Current Price? http://cleantechnica.com/2015/05/06/10-biggest-electric-car-battery-manufacturers-are/ 10 Biggest Electric Car Battery Manufacturers Are… May 6th, 2015 by James Ayre Top 10 EV Battery ManufacturersThose interested in tracking the state of the electric vehicle (EV) battery manufacturing market will likely be interested in taking a look at the chart and table below — which provide a fair amount of data on the market as pertaining to consumer electric car batteries (not pertaining to “heavy duty” vehicles such as buses, or to energy storage systems). And a big thanks to José Pontes for the numbers. [horzontal bar chart break down] Source: EV Obsession Get the data Battery Manufacturer1st Quarter 2015 (MWh) 2014 (MWh) % of 1Q 2015 Top 10 % of 2014 Top 10 Panasonic 888 272645% 41% AESC361 162018% 24% BYD 196 461 10% 7% Mitsu./GS Yuasa 135 451 7% 7% LG Chem 114 886 6% 13% Samsung 105 314 5% 5% Wanxiang62 0 3% 0% Beijing (BPP) 47 121 2% 2% Tianneng38 77 2% 1% SB LiMotive 37 0 2% 0% Total 19836656100%100% As you can see, Panasonic continues to dominate the market — with Tesla’s strong showing being a major factor. The company supplies Volkswagen as well, though, it should be remembered — giving it some growth potential beyond the Tesla association. The joint venture between Nissan Motors and NEC, AESC, is continuing on its long dive (down nearly 20% of top 10 market share in just 3 years). Considering that Nissan will be sourcing batteries from LG Chem in the future, this dive is set to continue. BYD is continuing to do well — and it should be noted here that these figures don’t even factor in the company’s electric buses or its energy storage solutions (which are considerable). BYD’s market share is especially thanks to the top-selling Qin EV, but also its many other market offerings. The rest of the list (again, coming to us via the EV Sales blog) is about what you’d expect — a slow loss of top 10 market share mostly, with the exception of LG Chem and Samsung, which are providing the batteries for the Chevy Volt and some of BMW’s electric offerings, respectively. Some of the small companies further down the list have managed to gain some market share as well, though. Wanxiang managed to climb to number 7 (up from number 11 in 2014) with a top 10 market share increase of 2% thanks to the success of the Zotye E20, etc. [© cleantechnica.com] ... http://evobsession.com/top-ev-battery-manufacturers-2014-top-10-sales/ Top EV Battery Manufacturers — 2014 Top 10 In Sales http://www.techcentral.co.za/the-history-and-future-of-batteries/56305/ The history, and future, of batteries 30 April 2015 [image http://www.techcentral.co.za/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/how-batteries-work-640.jpg (diagram) ] Batteries are so ubiquitous today that they’re almost invisible to us. Yet they are a remarkable invention with a long and storied history, and an equally exciting future. A battery is essentially a device that stores chemical energy that is converted into electricity. Basically, batteries are small chemical reactors, with the reaction producing energetic electrons, ready to flow through the external device. Batteries have been with us for a long time. In 1938, the director of the Baghdad Museum found what is now referred to as the “Baghdad Battery” in the basement of the museum. Analysis dated it at around 250BC and of Mesopotamian origin. Controversy surrounds this earliest example of a battery, but suggested uses include electroplating, pain relief or a religious tingle. American scientist and inventor Benjamin Franklin first used the term “battery” in 1749 when he was doing experiments with electricity using a set of linked capacitors. The first true battery was invented by the Italian physicist Alessandro Volta in 1800. Volta stacked discs of copper (Cu) and zinc (Zn) separated by cloth soaked in salty water. Wires connected to either end of the stack produced a continuous stable current. Each cell (a set of a Cu and a Zn disc and the brine) produces 0,76V. A multiple of this value is obtained given by the number of cells that are stacked together. One of the most enduring batteries, the lead-acid battery, was invented in 1859 and is still the technology used to start most internal combustion engine cars today. It is the oldest example of a rechargeable battery. Today, batteries come in a range of sizes from large megawatt sizes, which store the power from solar farms or substations to guarantee stable supply in entire villages or islands, down to tiny batteries like those used in electronic watches. Batteries are based on different
[EVDL] EVLN: NZ Post seeking to go Electric in Christchurch
http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/68238450/nz-post-wants-to-go-electric-in-christchurch
NZ Post wants to go electric in Christchurch
LOIS CAIRNS May 4 2015
[image
http://www.stuff.co.nz/content/dam/images/1/4/m/o/o/c/image.related.StuffLandscapeSixteenByNine.620x349.14ml4i.png/1430703297453.jpg
New Zealand Post is seeking permission to operate customised four-wheel
scooters like this on Christchurch's footpaths
]
The days of pedalling posties delivering mail in Christchurch may be at an
end.
New Zealand Post is looking at changing the way it delivers mail and has
asked the Christchurch City Council for permission to operate two types of
electric vehicles on the city's footpaths.
The vehicles - a three-wheeled motorcycle with a trailer and a four-wheeled
vehicle similar to a mobility scooter - have already been trialled in
Auckland City and Hutt City and New Zealand Post is running a full-scale
commercial trial in New Plymouth.
Christchurch City Council road corridor operations manager Paul Burden said
New Zealand Post planned to make a decision on a nationwide rollout after
the New Plymouth trial was completed but was in the meantime seeking
approval, in principle, to operate the vehicles on Christchurch footpaths.
Burden said the vehicles had been trialled on the streets around Papanui one
morning in March and no problems had been encountered. The vehicles though
had different operational requirements and would not be suitable in all
situations.
Approval to operate these vehicles on footpaths should be granted to New
Zealand Post subject to suitable agreements on routes and maintenance,
Burden said in a report prepared for Thursday's infrastructure, transport
and environment committee meeting.
New Zealand Post is looking at switching to motorised vehicles because of
the growing volume of parcels its posties are having to deliver.
Traditionally, letters have made up the bulk of deliveries but domestic
letter volumes dropped 7 per cent to 642 million pieces last year and are
forecast to drop below an annual 500 million in the next three years as
consumers switch to the internet, email and social media for everything from
paying bills to sending birthday greetings and keeping in touch with loved
ones.
The introduction of new vehicles is one of a number of changes New Zealand
Post is proposing in response to shrinking mail volumes. In July, it will
cut mail delivery in urban areas to three days a week.
[© stuff.co.nz]
...
http://www.loydspaxster.com/
PAXSTER: FIT FOR PURPOSE - Electric Delivery Vehicle
[dated]
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-New-NZ-mail-Electric-delivery-vehicles-trialled-td4668744.html
EVLN: New NZ mail Electric delivery vehicles trialled
Apr 02, 2014
...
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/AU-posties-electric-delivery-cargo-EV-no-worries-on-uneven-ground-tp3409106.html
AU posties' electric delivery/cargo EV, no worries on uneven ground
Mar 27, 2011
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[EVDL] Virtue Pedalist enclosed human-electric cycle r:50mi ts:20mph
http://www.psfk.com/2015/05/combination-commuter-cycle-virtue-pedalist-velomobile.html
Combo Cycle Lives Life in the Bike Lane
Jason Brick 6 may 2015
[images
http://cdn.psfk.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/virtue-cycles-966x644.jpg
The Virtue Pedalist operates in three modes: pure pedal, pedal assist and
engine only
http://cdn.psfk.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/virtue-pedalist-968x544.jpg
virtue pedalist
http://cdn.psfk.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Virtue-2-964x644.jpg
http://cdn.psfk.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/virtue-transport-vehicle-966x644.jpg
virtue transport vehicle
]
Virtue Pedalist, by Virtue Cycles, is a combination of electric bicycle,
cargo bicycle, tricycle and velomobile, all wrapped up into an
environmentally friendly whole.
The vehicle is build to bridge the gap for commuters who don’t want a car,
but have to transport so much cargo or gear that a bicycle won’t do the job.
From the outside at first glance, the pedal-powered vehicle could easily be
mistaken for a new electric car.
Virtue Pedalist’s design team started with safety, adding the size and
protective exterior of a car along with mirrors for extra visibility, along
with head and tail lights like a car. Despite these measures, the vehicle is
a bicycle and narrow enough to fit in a bicycle lane.
The interior is what you would expect from a bicycle, with pedals in the
traditional space and a seat just slightly higher than in most bicycles. The
front has two wheels, with one in back along with a passenger seat/cargo
space.
A zero-emission electrical motor reaches up to 20 mph and will go up to 50
miles on a single charge even without pedal assist. Riders can shift between
three modes: pure pedal, pedal assist and engine only. In most states, it’s
legally a bicycle and requires no license or registration.
Backer rewards are pretty typical for this sort of crowdfunding campaign:
t-shirts and decals for low-end pledges, and models of the bicycle at the
higher levels. Depending on the model selected, backers spend between $300
and $1,100.
As of May 5, the Virtue Pedalist has raised just under $10,000 of its
$100,000 goal with 21 days remaining in the campaign. Kicktraq projects
funding at $30,000, so the future of the Virtue is in doubt. If the project
does fund, they anticipate delivery in July of this year.
[© psfk.com]
...
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/440746667/virtue-pedalist
Virtue Pedalist
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Re: [EVDL] pouch cells
On 05/12/2015 04:48 PM, Cor van de Water via EV wrote: They also offer pouch cells, but this battery is aluminum encased so not a pouch. I thought pouches were soft sided things and could be encased in a ridged housing. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
[EVDL] EVLN: Silent driving is golden for EV drivers
http://www.businesscarmanager.co.uk/evs-prove-silence-golden-drivers/
EVs prove silence is golden for drivers
Paul Myles | 6 May 2015
[image
http://www.businesscarmanager.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/785_The_new_BMW_i3-600x375.jpg
The BMW i3 is one of a growing number of quality electric vehicles
]
Shhh.. I’m driving
- New research suggests lower levels of interior noise found in ultra low
emission vehicles could greatly enhance occupant experience;
- Seven out of 10 motorists say a quieter cabin would help improve mood and
reduce stress during car journeys;
- 74% long for more ‘quiet time’ in everyday life, with 83% believing
Britain is a much noisier place compared with 10 years ago.
SILENCE is the gold standard that 70% of motorists want to achieve and one
being promoted by the electric vehicle (EV) lobby.
Green campaigner organisation Go Extra Low says its new research reveals
most motorists believe that a quieter cabin would help improve their mood
and reduce stress during the time they spend in the car.
It points out that test conducted by its consortium of car manufacturer
partners showed that interior noise levels of electric vehicles and their
conventionally-powered equivalents can vary by up to 6dB(A) – a
significantly audible difference.
The new research also found that 74% of the UK’s car-driving population
above 30 years-old desire “more ‘quiet time’ in everyday life”, with 83% of
the same group believing that “Britain is a much nosier place compared with
10 years ago”.
According to noise experts, fluctuations in sound levels can have a real
impact on our emotions.
Professor Duncan Williams, psycho-acoustician at Plymouth University, said:
“Many of the sounds people find most annoying and stressful are dynamic –
this is no surprise as humans are neurologically ‘hard-wired’ to respond to
such noise. What makes this annoying is when the noises are beyond our
control – they are basically unwelcome intruders into our personal space.”
While the research found that the ability to enjoy a ‘quiet’ car journey is
important to the majority of motorists, eight out of 10 participants also
believed that a reduction in car engine noise would allow them to hold
better conversations with passengers and increase their enjoyment of music.
Go Ultra Low is a campaign brings together, the Office for Low Emission
Vehicles, SMMT and a consortium of leading car manufacturers: Audi, BMW,
Mitsubishi, Nissan, Renault, Toyota, and Volkswagen.
[© businesscarmanager.co.uk]
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http://gas2.org/2015/05/02/commercial-ev-sales-exceed-80-2023/
Commercial EV Sales Could Exceed 800,000 By 2023
http://evobsession.com/commercial-ev-sales-could-exceed-80-by-2023/
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/event/article-3062466/Gocycle-G2-review-CHRIS-EVANS.html
£2,799 gocycle.com the F1 car of electric bicycles
http://www.ocala.com/article/20150427/ARTICLES/150429689
1st L2 AeroVironment EVSE in Ocala, FL
http://www.engineering.com/ElectronicsDesign/ElectronicsDesignArticles/ArticleID/10019/Smart-Charging-Your-Electric-Car-Theres-an-App-for-That.aspx
Siemens VersiCharge Smartgrid EVSE+app charge now vs low-cost later
+
EVLN: Batteries 10 Biggest Manufacturers, history, Watt-If 1/6-price
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