Re: [EVDL] Prejudice& discrimination: MI Denies Tesla Dealership license
There may be some component of prejudice or discrimination involved here, but IMO Cor is on target. It's all about protectionism. Business is always for "free markets" as long as those markets benefit their bottom line. When "free markets" harm their profits, suddenly they're all in favor of laws to "level the playing field," by which they mean "put a thumb on my side of the scale." It doesn't have to be that way, and hasn't always been that way, but as of now we as a nation (maybe we as a world) seem to have decided that this is the system we want. So it goes. If Tesla truly want their business model to prevail, they can make it happen the same way the auto dealers have made theirs the norm. All it takes is money. Tesla will probably have to spend less on research and product development so they can spend much more on politics -- consistently more than the auto dealers and mainstream automakers spend, over a period of years. Then doors will begin to open for them. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
[EVDL] Prejudice& discrimination: MI Denies Tesla Dealership license
Lee asks:
>why Tesla doesn't just set up dealers like the other car companies<
The same dealership cartel that is blocking Tesla direct (non-dealership)
sales, also has a (lobbied/paid-off) say if an automaker is 'approved'.
Coming or going, Tesla is being stopped every which way to Sunday.
Bullying has not changed since the middle & high school cliques:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolescent_cliques#Types_of_American_cliques
... Some of the more common types of cliques found include: jocks, tomboys,
cheerleaders, mean girls, foreigners, gamers, hipsters, hippies,
troublemakers, peacemakers, class clowns, "cool kids", arty intellectuals,
gangsters, wangsters, "ghetto kids", stoners/slackers, girly girls,
scenesters, scene kids, punks, preps, skaters, goths, emos, skinheads,
geeks/nerds, and drifters ...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolescent_cliques#High_school_cliques
All this anti-Tesla effort to put the kibosh on Tesla is understood as
competition under capitalism, where 'good-old-boy' rules work for a select
few. I am thinking it is similar to the same bullying (supreme geek) Musk
had to endure from the jocks, preps& more ...
http://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-was-lonely-2013-12
... Musk survived terrible bullying. In doing so, he learned that he could
do things the other kids told him he couldn't do. So he did, and he hasn't
stopped ...
[dated]
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/CEO-Musk-talks-of-a-future-Electric-Tesla-Truck-MI-Dealership-td4680195.html
... Tesla applies for Michigan dealership license
January 31, 2016 ... automaker submitted applications in November to the
Michigan Secretary of State Office, and submitted follow-up information in
recent weeks ... the department is reviewing the applications and a decision
is expected “in the next month or two.” ... a “Class A” dealership license
to sell new and used cars ... also must have a “repair facility ... or ... a
licensed repair facility,” ... Tesla filed the applications as it tried for
several months to win over legislators, dealers and automakers ... offered a
number of test-drives ... Tesla also has opened four fast-charging stations
for Teslas in the state. Its website says a Detroit service center is
“coming soon.” ...
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-GM-pu-hing2-kill-Tesla-sales-gt-no-duh-Want-a-Tesla-gt-Vote-td4672204.html
Oct. 21, 2014 ... General Motors Co. widened the rift between Detroit auto
makers and Tesla Motors Inc., urging Michigan Gov. Rick Snyder Tuesday to
sign the a bill barring auto makers from directly selling to consumers ...
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-Ohio-senator-with-deep-dealer-ties-proposes-anti-Tesla-bill-td4668186.html
EVLN: Ohio senator with deep dealer ties proposes anti-Tesla bill
Feb 14th 2014 ... The fight against customer-direct car sales by Tesla
Motors continues around the US ...
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-Yes-Virginia-your-state-may-get-a-Tesla-dealership-td4665625.html
Deal paves way for Tesla dealership in Virginia
October 2, 2013 The world's hottest car company appears to have found the
foothold it's been looking for in Virginia. Tesla Motors, whose
high-performance electric cars have ...
http://www.motoring.com.au/news/2013/tesla/tesla-deals-direct-39202
Tesla deals direct 3 October 2013
If the states tilt against Musk, his eventual option may be to petition the
federal government to enact legislation ... drafted to protect electric
vehicle sales ...
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-Pacheco-sponsored-bill-would-impact-Tesla-dealerships-td4665298.html
Sep 18, 2013 ... A state legislator from Taunton is sticking up for auto
dealerships, including those on the Route 44 Auto Mile in Raynham, against
potential efforts to skirt a Massachusetts law intended to prohibit car
manufacturers from selling directly to customers ...
http://www.bizjournals.com/sanfrancisco/morning_call/2013/09/tesla-says-california-car-dealers-are.html
Tesla says California car dealers are aiming to hurt its sales
Sep 20, 2013 - This week the California New Car Dealers Association claimed
that Tesla was violating state and federal laws in the ...
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http://evdl.org/evln/
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Re: [EVDL] Michigan Denies Tesla Dealership license
It is called protectionism. Funny to hear people talk out both sides of their faces, one side claiming the best for customers and free market, while at the other side they object to and force customers to exclusively buy through their organisations who have pretty much monopoly, as if monopoly is not the opposite of what they claim. There is a reason that none of the 2 dozen cars I ever bought was from a dealer. Cor. > On Sep 16, 2016, at 2:41 PM, paul dove via EV wrote: > > Amazing there is a law against that. wish I had a business the law > protected. Sweet deal! > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Sep 15, 2016, at 6:53 PM, Mark Abramowitz via EV >> wrote: >> >> Michigan denies Tesla request for dealership licenseSep. 15, 2016 6:28 PM • >> SA Editor Carl SurranTesla's (NASDAQ:TSLA) request for a new dealership >> license to sell its all-electric vehicles in Michigan is rejected by state >> officials.The license was denied because the company’s business model of >> selling its vehicles directly to consumers is illegal under Michigan law, >> according to a final order released today.The move that indicates the home >> state for Ford (NYSE:F) and GM will stick to its banon selling new cars >> directly to consumers. >> >> >> >> >> Sent from AltaMail >> -- next part -- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: >> <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20160915/44855335/attachment.htm> >> ___ >> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >> Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ >> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > -- next part -- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20160916/3e0f189e/attachment.htm> > ___ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ > Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Ev scooter / bike sound generator
Ken, Google "scooter lights". Many are available. You could light yourself up like a Christmas tree. You mention a spoke. There are lights that attach to spokes and create patterns as you go. Gail On 9/16/2016 11:15 AM, ken via EV wrote: Being an EV scooter rider, I'm very silent around gas cars. I take back streets just to be SAFE. My town has some 2 n 3 lanes in town streets. I'm thinking of getting a head light modualator. but that will not help being seen by those on the sides of me . My idea is an electric engine sound. Basicly put a magnet on the spoke, and a pickup, the pluse would go into an amplifer and into a bass tube speaker that would make a thumping sound like an engine and faster you go the faster the thumping would go. of coarse you'd have a switch and volume control. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Michigan Denies Tesla Dealership license
I wonder that as well. I'm sure that they're trying to be ideologically pure but sometimes you have to be willing to play the game. They could easily find people to run dealerships who will be cooperative. To some extent the dealerships could be just a formality. And, anyway, it doesn't hurt to have physical presences for repair purposes. While I don't support forcing them to have dealerships it is currently the way things are going. You either play or you take your ball home. I'd think it would be in their best interests at this point to go ahead and sell through some dealerships. On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 1:44 PM, Lee Hart via EV wrote: > paul dove via EV wrote: >>> >>> Michigan denies Tesla request for dealership license... > > > What I don't get is why Tesla doesn't just set up dealers like the other car > companies have done. If they're concerned about price gouging or other > sneaky dealer sales tactics, they could dictate terms and prices, just like > GM/Saturn did. > -- > Obsolete (Ob-so-LETE). Adjective. 1. Something that is simple, > reliable, straightforward, readily available, easy to use, and > affordable. 2. Not what the salesman wants you to buy. > -- > Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com > > ___ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ > Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Ev scooter / bike sound generator
Correct, the same holds for bicyclists: the only thing you can do to be safe around cars is to be *visible* and *predictable* (like: ride in a straight line, not weave in and out and follow the traffic rules) Cor van de Water Chief Scientist Proxim Wireless office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info http://www.proxim.com This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation. If you received this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender. Any unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of this message is prohibited. -Original Message- From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Jim Walls via EV Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 11:24 AM To: ken; Electric Vehicle Discussion List Subject: Re: [EVDL] Ev scooter / bike sound generator Unless it's quite loud (think - loud obnoxious motorcycle), the people in cars are not going to hear it anyway, so there is little point in trying to make it noisy from that perspective. If you are trying to warn pedestrians, your plan has merit, but from your description, that is not the case. Jim From: "ken via EV" Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 11:18 AM To: "Lee Hart" , "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" Subject: [EVDL] Ev scooter / bike sound generator Being an EV scooter rider, I'm very silent around gas cars. I take back streets just to be SAFE. My town has some 2 n 3 lanes in town streets. I'm thinking of getting a head light modualator. but that will not help being seen by those on the sides of me . My idea is an electric engine sound. Basicly put a magnet on the spoke, and a pickup, the pluse would go into an amplifer and into a bass tube speaker that would make a thumping sound like an engine and faster you go the faster the thumping would go. of coarse you'd have a switch and volume control. or maybe the circut could be used modify other sounds for those of use how choose to Quiet and not polute our failing earth. To here the sounds of wind, birds, water while I ride is so nice. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20160916/37b8 51f9/attachment.html> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Ev scooter / bike sound generator
Unless it's quite loud (think - loud obnoxious motorcycle), the people in cars are not going to hear it anyway, so there is little point in trying to make it noisy from that perspective. If you are trying to warn pedestrians, your plan has merit, but from your description, that is not the case. Jim From: "ken via EV" Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 11:18 AM To: "Lee Hart" , "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" Subject: [EVDL] Ev scooter / bike sound generator Being an EV scooter rider, I'm very silent around gas cars. I take back streets just to be SAFE. My town has some 2 n 3 lanes in town streets. I'm thinking of getting a head light modualator. but that will not help being seen by those on the sides of me . My idea is an electric engine sound. Basicly put a magnet on the spoke, and a pickup, the pluse would go into an amplifer and into a bass tube speaker that would make a thumping sound like an engine and faster you go the faster the thumping would go. of coarse you'd have a switch and volume control. or maybe the circut could be used modify other sounds for those of use how choose to Quiet and not polute our failing earth. To here the sounds of wind, birds, water while I ride is so nice. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20160916/37b851f9/attachment.html> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
[EVDL] Ev scooter / bike sound generator
Being an EV scooter rider, I'm very silent around gas cars. I take back streets just to be SAFE. My town has some 2 n 3 lanes in town streets. I'm thinking of getting a head light modualator. but that will not help being seen by those on the sides of me . My idea is an electric engine sound. Basicly put a magnet on the spoke, and a pickup, the pluse would go into an amplifer and into a bass tube speaker that would make a thumping sound like an engine and faster you go the faster the thumping would go. of coarse you'd have a switch and volume control. or maybe the circut could be used modify other sounds for those of use how choose to Quiet and not polute our failing earth. To here the sounds of wind, birds, water while I ride is so nice. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Michigan Denies Tesla Dealership license
paul dove via EV wrote: Michigan denies Tesla request for dealership license... What I don't get is why Tesla doesn't just set up dealers like the other car companies have done. If they're concerned about price gouging or other sneaky dealer sales tactics, they could dictate terms and prices, just like GM/Saturn did. -- Obsolete (Ob-so-LETE). Adjective. 1. Something that is simple, reliable, straightforward, readily available, easy to use, and affordable. 2. Not what the salesman wants you to buy. -- Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
[EVDL] EVLN: EV-newswire posts for 20160916
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-e-Drive-Retro-converts-vintage-fl-ice-to-Electric-adding-sensors-amp-wireless-td4683758.html
EVLN: e-Drive Retro converts vintage.fl ice to Electric adding sensors&
wireless
Classic Cars Get An Electric Upgrade From e-Drive Retro in Helsinki, Finland
...
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-GM-Mgr-sez-Bolt-has-a-lifestyle-focus-quot-gt-spacious-inside-This-is-what-we-do-td4683757.html
EVLN: GM Mgr sez Bolt has “a lifestyle focus"> spacious inside, “This is
what we do”
How Did GM Create Tesla's Dream Car First?
GM produces the Bolt EV at its existing production system at the Orion
Assembly plant outside of Detroit ... Musk’s white whale ... Cocky
billionaire makes grand promises ...
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-7k-gerihorner-com-took-hubby-Christian-for-a-spicy-Twizy-spin-ts-50mph-td4683759.html
EVLN: £7k gerihorner.com took hubby Christian for a spicy Twizy spin
ts:50mph
Geri Horner races around the roads in a tiny electric car as she enjoys a
day out with F1 husband Christian ... former Spice Girl was caught whizzing
around London today in an minuscule electric car. Laughing delightedly as
she turned corners, the singer seemed to ...
+
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVSE-Shell-uk-stations-gt-radical-departure-for-ice-fuel-giant-td4683761.html
EVSE @Shell.uk stations> radical departure for ice fuel giant
Shell fuel stations could introduce new electric car charging points
alongside its petrol pumps as early as next year, according to ...
http://evdl.org/evln/
For all EVLN EV-newswire posts
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[EVDL] EVSE @Shell.uk stations> radical departure for ice fuel giant
https://www.carkeys.co.uk/news/shell-stations-to-introduce-electric-car-charging-points-to-forecourts-next-year
Shell stations to introduce electric car charging points to forecourts next
year
14/09/2016
[image
https://www.carkeys.co.uk/Media/Default/_Profiles/4baf6aee/1743fa5a/shell1.jpg?v=636094411254588441
(ice pumps)
https://www.carkeys.co.uk/Media/Default/Content/News%20Images/shell2.jpg
(EVSE)
]
Shell fuel stations could introduce new electric car charging points
alongside its petrol pumps as early as next year, according to information
from a recent FoI request.
You could soon be able to charge your electric car alongside petrol pumps,
as Shell UK is currently working on introducing them to its service stations
as early as next year.
Emails released after a Freedom of Information request from anti-pollution
site DeSmogBlog shows that Shell officials have discussed introducing both
electric chargers and hydrogen fuel pumps.
The emails also show that the fuel giant has asked the UK government how
serious it is about wireless charging roads, which can charge electric cars
without the need to plug it into a charger.
Electric charging points and hydrogen pumps
It marks a radical new departure for the company, which in the past has
largely backed biofuels as a better alternative to petrol and diesel rather
than electricity or hydrogen.
Asked by the Guardian if the emails confirm that Shell is developing
charging points, a spokeswoman said: “We are examining the potential to
introduce electric vehicle charging points across some parts of our UK
retail network from early 2017 onwards.”
It’s not clear how many of Shell’s service stations would get electric
charging points or who will provide the technology, but the move would put
the company into competition with firms like Ecotricity and Tesla.
Radical departure for fuel giant
Data from the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders (SMMT) shows that
there are around 20,000 electric vehicles on UK roads as of last year, a
number which has slowly but steadily increased.
Lobbyists and policymakers see electric cars as the best way to tackle
pollution and meet climate targets, but a group of MPs warned earlier this
month that the UK is failing to encourage take-up fast enough.
[© 2016 Car Keys]
https://cleantechnica.com/2016/09/14/shell-considering-creating-ev-charging-station-network-uk-2017/
Shell Considering Creating EV Charging Station Network In UK In 2017
September 14th, 2016 Shell is considering the introduction of electric
vehicle charging stations to its network of gas (petrol) stations in the UK,
going by recent ...
...
http://www.carbuzz.com/news/2016/9/14/Will-Shell-Start-Building-EV-Charging-Points-At-Its-Gas-Stations-7735464/
Will Shell Start Building EV Charging Points At Its Gas Stations?
September 14th, 2016 Thankfully, we may be seeing greater support for EV
cars soon, as DeSmogBlog has confirmed that Shell, of all companies, is
looking at adding charging points ...
https://api.plugshare.com/view/location/55745
Webster 76
Ports EV Plug (J1772) Stations
ChargePoint EV Plug (J1772)
Address 1716 Webster St, Alameda, CA 94501
Phone (510) 865-1492
Cost $4.99 per hour, Max $29.99 for every 10 hrs
Hours 24 hours
Description Single ChargePoint pedestal.
(check-in comment) PlugSharer Oct 22, 2014 1:28 PM
$5 per hour AND $5 minimum. Not easily seen until you've tagged in and
started charging. Fooled me once; won't ever be back ...
...
https://www.yelp.com/biz/circle-k-76-alameda
Circle K 76
Rating details $$ Gas & Service Stations, Convenience Stores
1716 Webster St, Alameda, CA 94501 b/t Lincoln Ave & Haight Ave
circlek.com
https://www.yelp.com/biz_photos/circle-k-76-alameda?select=B8Pb6LoN2BCBrHW7kiZ7zw
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Re: [EVDL] Michigan Denies Tesla Dealership license
Amazing there is a law against that. wish I had a business the law protected. Sweet deal! Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 15, 2016, at 6:53 PM, Mark Abramowitz via EV wrote: > > Michigan denies Tesla request for dealership licenseSep. 15, 2016 6:28 PM • > SA Editor Carl SurranTesla's (NASDAQ:TSLA) request for a new dealership > license to sell its all-electric vehicles in Michigan is rejected by state > officials.The license was denied because the company’s business model of > selling its vehicles directly to consumers is illegal under Michigan law, > according to a final order released today.The move that indicates the home > state for Ford (NYSE:F) and GM will stick to its banon selling new cars > directly to consumers. > > > > > Sent from AltaMail > -- next part -- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20160915/44855335/attachment.htm> > ___ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ > Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20160916/3e0f189e/attachment.htm> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
