Re: [EVDL] Another J1772 L2 purchase
No experience with the Duosida but I saw no UL or other agency marks on it. On Thu, Sep 22, 2016 at 8:33 PM, Robert Bruninga via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote: > I need another L2 J1772 EVSE... > I just checked Amazon and there are two L2 EVSE for $299. > > One comes with a dryer plug and is called Ebusbar BEV-H02A10 EV Charger > Level 2, 240 Volt > <https://www.amazon.com/Ebusbar-BEV-H02A10-Charger- > Level-Volt/dp/B00TPSP760/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8=1474601282& > sr=8-2=evse> > > The other has a 6-20R plug and is > <https://www.amazon.com/Ebusbar-BEV-H02A10-Charger- > Level-Volt/dp/B00TPSP760/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8=1474601282& > sr=8-2=evse> > New Duosida Portable Electric Vehicle Charger (220V-240V) - 22 ft long - > Level 2 - 16 amp Electric Car Charger - J1772 - EVSE > <https://www.amazon.com/Duosida-Portable-Electric-Vehicle-220V-240V/dp/ > B01HH1Z3DS/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8=1474601282=8-4=evse> > > > Im ok with just the 16 amps. This Duosida's EVSE box is no bigger than the > handle. Glad to see size and bulk is coming down. > > Any objections to the Duosida? > > Bob > -- next part -- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/ > attachments/20160922/033aa2d9/attachment.htm> > ___ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ > Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/ > group/NEDRA) > > -- www.electric-lemon.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20160923/85932ae4/attachment.htm> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] 2nd life for lithium batteries
>> Mike > >> > >> > >> On Fri, Sep 23, 2016 at 12:32 AM, Larry Gales via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org > > > >> wrote: > >> > >> > Most scenarios assume that Lithium batteries for EVs should be > replaced > >> > when they degrade to 70-80% of their initial capacities, after which > >> they > >> > might serve as storage batteries for the grid, or a house. Does > anyone > >> > know how low the capacity of a battery can fall before it is no longer > >> > useful, and how long will that take? For example, can the capacity > >> shrink > >> > down to 15% and still provide useful power, and how long would that > >> take? > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > Thanks, Larry > >> > > >> > -- > >> > Larry Gales > >> > -- next part -- > >> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > >> > URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/ > >> > attachments/20160922/84aa5308/attachment.htm> > >> > ___ > >> > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > >> > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > >> > Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ > >> > Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/ > >> > group/NEDRA) > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > >> -- > >> To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk. > >> Thomas A. Edison > >> <http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/t/thomasaed125362.html> > >> > >> A public-opinion poll is no substitute for thought. > >> *Warren Buffet* > >> > >> Michael E. Ross > >> (919) 585-6737 Land > >> (919) 576-0824 <https://www.google.com/voice/b/0?pli=1#phones> Mobile > and > >> Google Phone > >> > >> michael.e.r...@gmail.com > >> <michael.e.r...@gmail.com> > >> -- next part -- > >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > >> URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/ > >> 20160923/7d4a7fbd/attachment.htm> > >> ___ > >> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > >> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > >> Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ > >> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group > >> /NEDRA) > >> > >> > > > -- next part -- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/ > attachments/20160923/74e062c3/attachment.htm> > ___ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ > Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/ > group/NEDRA) > > -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20160923/61bdfa43/attachment.htm> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] 2nd life for lithium batteries
m/ >> > group/NEDRA) >> > >> > >> >> >> -- >> To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk. >> Thomas A. Edison >> <http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/t/thomasaed125362.html> >> >> A public-opinion poll is no substitute for thought. >> *Warren Buffet* >> >> Michael E. Ross >> (919) 585-6737 Land >> (919) 576-0824 <https://www.google.com/voice/b/0?pli=1#phones> Mobile and >> Google Phone >> >> michael.e.r...@gmail.com >> <michael.e.r...@gmail.com> >> -- next part -- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/ >> 20160923/7d4a7fbd/attachment.htm> >> ___ >> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >> Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ >> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group >> /NEDRA) >> >> > -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20160923/74e062c3/attachment.htm> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] 2nd life for lithium batteries
Usually the internal resistance is growing much faster than the loss of capacity. So if you use the pack in very low power application you will be able to use the pack for some time (several years). This is for LCO, LMO and NMC. Maybe NCA too (cannot say for sure yet as I do not have usage data from those yet). Basically the combination of low voltage chemistry, cool temperature during use and shallow cycles will provide long life for the cells. LFP has at least 5 to 10 years more calendar life than those mentioned above. Then again LTO-cells should have even slower rate of unhoped side reactions at the chemistry level compared to LFP. But LTO has hard time to compete against LFP net cost. Which is dirty cheap. Stationary batteries are designed for the use. Meaning their cost to buffer each kWh and provide power is much much less than the EV type cells. Currently for large utility scale units the cost to buffer is around one cent per kWh. -Jukka 2016-09-23 8:45 GMT+02:00 Michael Ross via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org>: > I believe batteries, and Li-ion as well as future designs will not degrade > much for a decade and more when properly managed. Understand that 'Lithium > batteries" covers a large and disparate group of designs. So, any comment > can be quibbled over. > > What is known now, a loss of 85% would probably be accompanied by physical > and chemical damage that might render them unreliable at greater loss. But > certainly Li-ion if managed well could be useful down to 30% SOC. > > The rub here is "well managed." Proper management will depend on the exact > electrode and electrolyte chemistry, the construction of the cell, > temperature of operation and storage, particularly at high SOC%. and so on. > > Anything we say is dependent on a host of variables. I think the body of > knowledge will grow and all these difficulties will drop in significance. > > You did not say in what application the degradation to 70% SOC would occur > but safe to assume you meant in cars. Tesla already committed to creating > rid based applications for "degraded" batteries. Their belief is that > stationary applications are far easier on the cells than mobile and > automotive apps. Allowing us to believe there is a very good chance that > car batteries will likely have a second life. > > Does anyone know how low the capacity of a battery can fall before it is no > longer > useful, and how long will that take? At least 50%, probably more. 15% is > too low for current technologies. > > For example, can the capacity shrink down to 15% SOC and still provide > useful power, how long would that take? Depends. > > It will continue to improve. > > Mike > > > On Fri, Sep 23, 2016 at 12:32 AM, Larry Gales via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> > wrote: > > > Most scenarios assume that Lithium batteries for EVs should be replaced > > when they degrade to 70-80% of their initial capacities, after which they > > might serve as storage batteries for the grid, or a house. Does anyone > > know how low the capacity of a battery can fall before it is no longer > > useful, and how long will that take? For example, can the capacity > shrink > > down to 15% and still provide useful power, and how long would that take? > > > > > > > > Thanks, Larry > > > > -- > > Larry Gales > > -- next part -- > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/ > > attachments/20160922/84aa5308/attachment.htm> > > ___ > > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > > Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ > > Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/ > > group/NEDRA) > > > > > > > -- > To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk. > Thomas A. Edison > <http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/t/thomasaed125362.html> > > A public-opinion poll is no substitute for thought. > *Warren Buffet* > > Michael E. Ross > (919) 585-6737 Land > (919) 576-0824 <https://www.google.com/voice/b/0?pli=1#phones> Mobile and > Google Phone > > michael.e.r...@gmail.com > <michael.e.r...@gmail.com> > -- next part -- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/ > attachments/20160923/7d4a7fbd/attachment.htm> > ___ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > Read EVAngel's EV News at http:/
[EVDL] EVLN: EV-newswire posts for 20160923
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-Divided-BMW-management-wrestle-over-EV-decisions-old-school-thinking-td4683812.html
EVLN: Divided BMW management wrestle over EV decisions ... (old-school
thinking)
BMW's top brass caught in electric divide
Mercedes-Benz and Audi have accelerated their … BMW's top executives will
skip next week's Paris auto show to wrestle with how to ... kick it around
...
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-Canadians-get-a-price-break-on-Bolt-w-L3-DC-port-included-td4683813.html
EVLN: Canadians get a price break on Bolt w/ L3-DC port included
The Chevy Bolt EV will be significantly cheaper in Canada ... ccs DC
fast-charging ... will be standard in Canada ...
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-200mi-Zoe-EV-To-Debut-At-Paris-fr-Auto-Show-td4683814.html
EVLN: 200mi Zoe EV To Debut At Paris.fr Auto Show
Renault has stated they would be introducing a new improved Zoe EV with a
range of around 200 miles at the Paris Auto Show. This would make for a
nearly ...
+
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Exxon-is-lobbying-the-UK-Government-against-EVs-decarbonising-their-transport-system-td4683815.html
Exxon is lobbying the UK Government against EVs decarbonising their
transport system
We shouldn't ignore the oil giant lobbying to stop the electric car
revolution in Britain ...
http://evdl.org/evln/
For all EVLN EV-newswire posts
{brucedp.0catch.com}
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[EVDL] Exxon is lobbying the UK Government against EVs decarbonising their transport system
https://www.opendemocracy.net/uk/kyla-mandel/why-should-we-care-that-exxon-is-lobbying-uk-government-on-electric-vehicles Why should we care that Exxon is lobbying the UK Government on electric vehicles? 20 September 2016 Kyla Mandel We shouldn't ignore the oil giant lobbying to stop the electric car revolution in Britain ... Behind the scenes lobbying to slow the rise of electric vehicles is growing. And in the UK, ExxonMobil is leading the charge. Newly released documents show the US oil giant repeatedly lobbying the British government against policies for greener transport. “Switching transportation from petroleum to renewable or alternative fuels is not the most cost-effective way to reduce GHG (greenhouse gas) emissions” reads one slide of a presentation delivered to the Department for Transport (DfT). Another reads: “In the near term other sectors are likely to provide more direct cost effective CO2 abatement solutions than the transport sector.” This is the message that Exxon has delivered to the DfT in three separate presentations since the Paris climate deal was agreed last December, the documents obtained by DeSmog UK reveal. And what’s more, Exxon appears to be the only major fossil fuel company currently heavily lobbying the British government against decarbonising our transport system. So why is this such a big deal? In the most basic terms, it goes something like this: governments should be acting in the public’s interest. Allowing corporate lobbying to influence a government’s policy making process threatens our democracy because it is effectively saying that the corporation’s interests are more important than the public’s. One year on, govt has done little about VW scandal, but found time to listen to Exxon lobbying against electric car. 1 yr on, govt has done little about VW scandal, but found time to listen to Exxon lobbying against electric cars https://t.co/vLqHAfneNu — Stefano Gelmini (@gelmo1981) September 12, 2016 And when it comes to issues related to tackling climate change – of which electric vehicles are one piece of a larger puzzle – it’s not just a question of what’s best for the public now but it’s about what’s best for our future and for future generations. Reducing our greenhouse gas emissions and transitioning to a clean economy is what’s in the public’s best interest. In fact, it’s also in the interest of companies too, many are now arguing. But that’s not how Exxon sees it. And it’s not what we’re seeing our government doing. The document release comes as the government’s environmental audit committee warned the UK is “falling behind” on its electric vehicle targets. The committee criticised ministers for failing to implement the proper incentives and infrastructure needed to encourage the growth of the sector. Increasing the number of electric vehicles, however, is critical if the UK is to tackle both climate change and harmful air pollution. Next time someone says "we're all equally responsible for #climate change," send 'em here: https://t.co/Lm4RnQGudH @DeSmogUK @kylamandel — Emma Gilchrist (@reporteremma) September 13, 2016 In order to meet the UK's 2050 climate change targets, 60 percent of new cars and vans need to be electric by 2030 according to analysis by the Committee on Climate Change. But as parliament’s Energy and Climate Change Committee warned earlier this month, the UK is unlikely to meet its interim legally-binding target to have 15 percent of its energy from renewable sources by 2020. Why? Because efforts in heat and transport are falling way behind. Exxon has long been working to undermine efforts to tackle climate change – the oil giant has denied the science on climate change and has funded groups which actively lobby against government efforts to address the issue. This is despite the company having “no doubt” that CO2 was a harmful pollutant since the late 1970s. And now, electric vehicles are in its crosshairs. While publicly Exxon has downplayed the threat electric vehicles pose to its business model, the documents obtained by DeSmog UK suggest otherwise. And Exxon’s not the only one trying to undermine the transition to a clean transport system. In the United States, a Koch Industries-backed campaign to rebrand fossil fuels called Fueling U.S. Forward was recently launched to undermine clean energy innovations including electric vehicles. And last month a report sponsored by the American Petroleum Institute was released claiming that biofuels are worse for the climate than gasoline. Why is the oil industry so afraid? Because, as the Financial Times reported at the end of August, the total number of electric vehicles on the road around the world has grown a staggering amount in the past seven years – from fewer than 6,000 in 2009 to 1.2 million last year. The total number of electric vehicles on the road around the world has grown a staggering amount in the past seven years – from fewer than 6,000 in 2009 to 1.2
Re: [EVDL] 2nd life for lithium batteries
I believe batteries, and Li-ion as well as future designs will not degrade much for a decade and more when properly managed. Understand that 'Lithium batteries" covers a large and disparate group of designs. So, any comment can be quibbled over. What is known now, a loss of 85% would probably be accompanied by physical and chemical damage that might render them unreliable at greater loss. But certainly Li-ion if managed well could be useful down to 30% SOC. The rub here is "well managed." Proper management will depend on the exact electrode and electrolyte chemistry, the construction of the cell, temperature of operation and storage, particularly at high SOC%. and so on. Anything we say is dependent on a host of variables. I think the body of knowledge will grow and all these difficulties will drop in significance. You did not say in what application the degradation to 70% SOC would occur but safe to assume you meant in cars. Tesla already committed to creating rid based applications for "degraded" batteries. Their belief is that stationary applications are far easier on the cells than mobile and automotive apps. Allowing us to believe there is a very good chance that car batteries will likely have a second life. Does anyone know how low the capacity of a battery can fall before it is no longer useful, and how long will that take? At least 50%, probably more. 15% is too low for current technologies. For example, can the capacity shrink down to 15% SOC and still provide useful power, how long would that take? Depends. It will continue to improve. Mike On Fri, Sep 23, 2016 at 12:32 AM, Larry Gales via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote: > Most scenarios assume that Lithium batteries for EVs should be replaced > when they degrade to 70-80% of their initial capacities, after which they > might serve as storage batteries for the grid, or a house. Does anyone > know how low the capacity of a battery can fall before it is no longer > useful, and how long will that take? For example, can the capacity shrink > down to 15% and still provide useful power, and how long would that take? > > > > Thanks, Larry > > -- > Larry Gales > -- next part -- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/ > attachments/20160922/84aa5308/attachment.htm> > ___ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ > Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/ > group/NEDRA) > > -- To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk. Thomas A. Edison <http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/t/thomasaed125362.html> A public-opinion poll is no substitute for thought. *Warren Buffet* Michael E. Ross (919) 585-6737 Land (919) 576-0824 <https://www.google.com/voice/b/0?pli=1#phones> Mobile and Google Phone michael.e.r...@gmail.com <michael.e.r...@gmail.com> -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20160923/7d4a7fbd/attachment.htm> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
