Re: [EVDL] Why not an open source EV?
> >> conditioning unit...one choice...would be a lot cheaper and easier. > >> Lawrence Rhodes > >>> ___ > >>> Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org > >>> No other addresses in TO and CC fields > >>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > >>> ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ > >>> LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > >> ___ > >> Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org > >> No other addresses in TO and CC fields > >> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > >> ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ > >> LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > >> > > -- next part -- > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > URL: < > http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20210801/46c5dd1b/attachment.html > > > > ___ > > Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org > > No other addresses in TO and CC fields > > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > > ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ > > LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > > > > ___ > Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org > No other addresses in TO and CC fields > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ > LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20210801/e4a623db/attachment.html> ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] Why not an open source EV?
Fascinating idea, but even if you used commodity parts, don’t they change anyway over time? What’s the current status of those parts that you used, and of the project? - Mark Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone > On Aug 1, 2021, at 9:39 AM, (-Phil-) via EV wrote: > > This was our philosophy when we developed our electric van at Maxwell. We > wanted to make sure that all parts we used are not only the most robust and > efficient ones available, but also readily available and will be for years > into the future. We started with a base vehicle that's available > world-wide. Our target market is fleet customers and they would be very > reluctant to own something that was hard to maintain because parts are hard > to get. We also designed the whole system so everything is easily > accessible and quick to swap. The entire powertrain with all EV components > (other than the battery) can easily pop out of the vehicle with only 3 > mount points. We call this the "superframe". If we are dealing with a > remote service issue, we can just ship them a whole replacement superframe > on a pallet, which they can swap in quickly, then return the old one to us > for service. Even though we have excellent diagnostics, this makes it > easy to quickly quash something like an intermittent problem that may be > experienced by a mechanic without a lot of EV experience. We also used the > best EV drivetrain on the market, the most efficient one, the most proven > one, and the one with the most production globally. (The same one used in > the Tesla Model 3 and Model Y) > >> On Sun, Aug 1, 2021 at 6:44 AM Collin Kidder via EV >> wrote: >> >> That does lead to another potential idea, though. What if an open >> source design specifically called for OEM parts that *ARE* easily >> available and cheap? This isn't so far-fetched or weird. Tesla uses >> Mercedes steering systems and a Ford accelerator pedal. They probably >> use other parts from existing cars that I'm just not aware of. What if >> an open design used parts from other cars and the real open source >> magic was the layout that integrates it all together? I have no idea >> if a frame could reasonably be constructed custom. But, existing OEM >> frames and/or rolling chassis do exist. Control systems for OEM >> components also already exist. The OpenInverter project has a lot of >> custom boards to control things from Tesla, Nissan, etc. >> >> The big problem here is probably one of scalability. You can put the >> plans together and tell people to buy a Bosch iBooster for their >> breaks and a Mercedes steering rack, ford accelerator pedal, Nissan >> Leaf drivetrain with an OpenInverter control board, etc, but can 100 >> people actually get those parts? 1000 people? These things exist but >> can they be found in sufficient quantities to make it worthwhile to >> do? >> >>> On Sat, Jul 31, 2021 at 4:56 PM Lawrence Rhodes via EV >>> wrote: >>> >>> Nice sentiment boss man but in mass production a power window is cheaper >> to engineer and produce than a crank up window unless you use the old >> fashion railway windows you lift up and down by muscle gravity...you might >> not know what I'm talking about these are so old. So the idea of >> simplifying in the way you think is again going back to the notion of >> carrying a horse with you in case you run out of gas. The cost of our >> gadgets is trivial in mass production. Might as well go with it. I can >> replace my electric power mirrors for $20. When it malfunctions or breaks >> off I replace it. Three 10mm nuts. EVerything on cars is like that now. All >> neatly in a row with a part number and made in the millions. Available on >> eBay.com. The only thing I wish for is no proprietary parts. When you want >> a turn signal just one assembly. Bumper one assembly...etc..air >> conditioning unit...one choice...would be a lot cheaper and easier. >> Lawrence Rhodes >>> ___ >>> Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org >>> No other addresses in TO and CC fields >>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >>> ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ >>> LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >> ___ >> Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org >> No other addresses in TO and CC fields >> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >> ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ >> LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >> > -- next part -
Re: [EVDL] Why not an open source EV?
This was our philosophy when we developed our electric van at Maxwell. We wanted to make sure that all parts we used are not only the most robust and efficient ones available, but also readily available and will be for years into the future. We started with a base vehicle that's available world-wide. Our target market is fleet customers and they would be very reluctant to own something that was hard to maintain because parts are hard to get. We also designed the whole system so everything is easily accessible and quick to swap. The entire powertrain with all EV components (other than the battery) can easily pop out of the vehicle with only 3 mount points. We call this the "superframe". If we are dealing with a remote service issue, we can just ship them a whole replacement superframe on a pallet, which they can swap in quickly, then return the old one to us for service. Even though we have excellent diagnostics, this makes it easy to quickly quash something like an intermittent problem that may be experienced by a mechanic without a lot of EV experience. We also used the best EV drivetrain on the market, the most efficient one, the most proven one, and the one with the most production globally. (The same one used in the Tesla Model 3 and Model Y) On Sun, Aug 1, 2021 at 6:44 AM Collin Kidder via EV wrote: > That does lead to another potential idea, though. What if an open > source design specifically called for OEM parts that *ARE* easily > available and cheap? This isn't so far-fetched or weird. Tesla uses > Mercedes steering systems and a Ford accelerator pedal. They probably > use other parts from existing cars that I'm just not aware of. What if > an open design used parts from other cars and the real open source > magic was the layout that integrates it all together? I have no idea > if a frame could reasonably be constructed custom. But, existing OEM > frames and/or rolling chassis do exist. Control systems for OEM > components also already exist. The OpenInverter project has a lot of > custom boards to control things from Tesla, Nissan, etc. > > The big problem here is probably one of scalability. You can put the > plans together and tell people to buy a Bosch iBooster for their > breaks and a Mercedes steering rack, ford accelerator pedal, Nissan > Leaf drivetrain with an OpenInverter control board, etc, but can 100 > people actually get those parts? 1000 people? These things exist but > can they be found in sufficient quantities to make it worthwhile to > do? > > On Sat, Jul 31, 2021 at 4:56 PM Lawrence Rhodes via EV > wrote: > > > > Nice sentiment boss man but in mass production a power window is cheaper > to engineer and produce than a crank up window unless you use the old > fashion railway windows you lift up and down by muscle gravity...you might > not know what I'm talking about these are so old. So the idea of > simplifying in the way you think is again going back to the notion of > carrying a horse with you in case you run out of gas. The cost of our > gadgets is trivial in mass production. Might as well go with it. I can > replace my electric power mirrors for $20. When it malfunctions or breaks > off I replace it. Three 10mm nuts. EVerything on cars is like that now. All > neatly in a row with a part number and made in the millions. Available on > eBay.com. The only thing I wish for is no proprietary parts. When you want > a turn signal just one assembly. Bumper one assembly...etc..air > conditioning unit...one choice...would be a lot cheaper and easier. > Lawrence Rhodes > > ___ > > Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org > > No other addresses in TO and CC fields > > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > > ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ > > LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > ___ > Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org > No other addresses in TO and CC fields > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ > LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20210801/46c5dd1b/attachment.html> ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] Why not an open source EV?
That does lead to another potential idea, though. What if an open source design specifically called for OEM parts that *ARE* easily available and cheap? This isn't so far-fetched or weird. Tesla uses Mercedes steering systems and a Ford accelerator pedal. They probably use other parts from existing cars that I'm just not aware of. What if an open design used parts from other cars and the real open source magic was the layout that integrates it all together? I have no idea if a frame could reasonably be constructed custom. But, existing OEM frames and/or rolling chassis do exist. Control systems for OEM components also already exist. The OpenInverter project has a lot of custom boards to control things from Tesla, Nissan, etc. The big problem here is probably one of scalability. You can put the plans together and tell people to buy a Bosch iBooster for their breaks and a Mercedes steering rack, ford accelerator pedal, Nissan Leaf drivetrain with an OpenInverter control board, etc, but can 100 people actually get those parts? 1000 people? These things exist but can they be found in sufficient quantities to make it worthwhile to do? On Sat, Jul 31, 2021 at 4:56 PM Lawrence Rhodes via EV wrote: > > Nice sentiment boss man but in mass production a power window is cheaper to > engineer and produce than a crank up window unless you use the old fashion > railway windows you lift up and down by muscle gravity...you might not know > what I'm talking about these are so old. So the idea of simplifying in the > way you think is again going back to the notion of carrying a horse with you > in case you run out of gas. The cost of our gadgets is trivial in mass > production. Might as well go with it. I can replace my electric power mirrors > for $20. When it malfunctions or breaks off I replace it. Three 10mm nuts. > EVerything on cars is like that now. All neatly in a row with a part number > and made in the millions. Available on eBay.com. The only thing I wish for is > no proprietary parts. When you want a turn signal just one assembly. Bumper > one assembly...etc..air conditioning unit...one choice...would be a lot > cheaper and easier. Lawrence Rhodes > ___ > Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org > No other addresses in TO and CC fields > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ > LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
