Re: [EVDL] $7.5bn for ev charging stations across the US
On 11 Feb 2022 at 15:04, nathan christiansn via EV wrote: > The only problem that I see with this is that the government is making > people who do not support EVs pay for ev charging. Yep. And even though I don't have any kids, the gubmint makes me pay taxes so that all those grubby undeserving kids in the neighborhood can go to school. NO FAIR! I shouldn't have to pay tax for anything that doesn't benefit me personally, directly, right now. Ever heard the phrase "promote the general welfare"? EV charging supports the use of EVs. So do subsidies, imperfect as they are. The entire world population benefits from the consequent reduced air emissions of all kinds, including CO2. We've had 40+ years of "greed is good" and "trickle down" economics. Well, so far the only trickling I see is melting glaciers and rising sea levels. David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it. Use my offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = It will always be one of the best jokes of democracy that it gives its deadly enemies the means to destroy it. -- Joseph Goebbels = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] $7.5bn for ev charging stations across the US
As far as I know, the charging business cannot yet be profitable without subsidies. If anyone has any contrary data, I would welcome it. If there is any data showing WHEN it might be profitable, I would be happy to see that, too. - Mark Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone > On Feb 11, 2022, at 2:22 PM, Willie via EV wrote: > > >> On 2/11/22 5:04 PM, nathan christiansn via EV wrote: >> The only problem that I see with this is that the government is making >> people who do not support ev’s pay for ev charging. I say that we wait for >> mass ev adoption to happen(which will happen very soon). After this, >> businesses and apartment building owners will pay for ev charging stations >> out of their own pocket because having ev charging as an amenity will >> attract more customers/tenants. Some hotels are already starting to do this. >> >> A government that is 28 trillion dollars in debt should not be spending >> billions of dollars that it does not hav > ABSOLUTELY! In addition, government contributions are not needed and any > government money would almost certain to be misspent. Examples abound. > Tesla has the charging problems solved. Compare SuperChargers with EVGO and > the VW system. All Tesla needs is a small fraction of the money that Biden > wants to spend. Tesla knows the charging problem and how best to solve it. > Instead, Biden wastes his efforts denying the existence of Tesla while > proclaiming the EV dominance of GM. Why does Biden expect credibility? > > ___ > Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org > No other addresses in TO and CC fields > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ > LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] $7.5bn for ev charging stations across the US
A couple of relevant data points: -Biden recently publicly credited Tesla as America's leading EV manufacturer. Yes, it took a while, but that talking point is over. Meanwhile we'll see if Ford, VW, GM, Hyundai, Kia, Nissan and others can catch up, as their new models arrive. -The government is also making people who do not support fossil fuels pay for fossil fuel tax breaks and cleanups. As a wider view, perhaps the thinking is that supporting nation-wide transportation initiatives offers benefits for overall American competitiveness, which benefits everyone. Even while recognizing that each subset in the transportation universe may not currently have individual support or direct use by every single person. Cheers, -Jamie On 2/11/22 3:22 PM, Willie via EV wrote: On 2/11/22 5:04 PM, nathan christiansn via EV wrote: The only problem that I see with this is that the government is making people who do not support ev’s pay for ev charging. I say that we wait for mass ev adoption to happen(which will happen very soon). After this, businesses and apartment building owners will pay for ev charging stations out of their own pocket because having ev charging as an amenity will attract more customers/tenants. Some hotels are already starting to do this. A government that is 28 trillion dollars in debt should not be spending billions of dollars that it does not hav ABSOLUTELY! In addition, government contributions are not needed and any government money would almost certain to be misspent. Examples abound. Tesla has the charging problems solved. Compare SuperChargers with EVGO and the VW system. All Tesla needs is a small fraction of the money that Biden wants to spend. Tesla knows the charging problem and how best to solve it. Instead, Biden wastes his efforts denying the existence of Tesla while proclaiming the EV dominance of GM. Why does Biden expect credibility? ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] $7.5bn for ev charging stations across the US
On 2/11/22 5:04 PM, nathan christiansn via EV wrote: The only problem that I see with this is that the government is making people who do not support ev’s pay for ev charging. I say that we wait for mass ev adoption to happen(which will happen very soon). After this, businesses and apartment building owners will pay for ev charging stations out of their own pocket because having ev charging as an amenity will attract more customers/tenants. Some hotels are already starting to do this. A government that is 28 trillion dollars in debt should not be spending billions of dollars that it does not hav ABSOLUTELY! In addition, government contributions are not needed and any government money would almost certain to be misspent. Examples abound. Tesla has the charging problems solved. Compare SuperChargers with EVGO and the VW system. All Tesla needs is a small fraction of the money that Biden wants to spend. Tesla knows the charging problem and how best to solve it. Instead, Biden wastes his efforts denying the existence of Tesla while proclaiming the EV dominance of GM. Why does Biden expect credibility? ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
[EVDL] $7.5bn for ev charging stations across the US
The only problem that I see with this is that the government is making people who do not support ev’s pay for ev charging. I say that we wait for mass ev adoption to happen(which will happen very soon). After this, businesses and apartment building owners will pay for ev charging stations out of their own pocket because having ev charging as an amenity will attract more customers/tenants. Some hotels are already starting to do this. A government that is 28 trillion dollars in debt should not be spending billions of dollars that it does not have. -Nathan -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20220211/16f9b90c/attachment.html> ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] $7.5b for new EV charge stations across US
On 11 Feb 2022 at 17:09, Peri Hartman via EV wrote: > States are getting the go-ahead to build a nationwide network of > electric vehicle charging stations that would place new or upgraded ones every > 50 miles along interstate highways as part of the Biden administrationTMs > plan to spur widespread adoption of the zero-emission cars. That's welcome news. I hope $5b is enough. Maybe I'm not being realistic but I'd like to see other non-EV-related incentives to accept and use the funding. I suspect that the more forward- looking states will take advantage of it, while the backward ones and those firmly in bed with big oil (Texas etc) won't. But at least that gets more public chargoing points into states where EVs are more likely to be adopted. > "Many might think of [EVs] as a luxury item," he said. Bunk. That's a bog-standard anti-EV talking point dating back to the $100k Tesla Model S days. It needs to die but never will. The elitist ultra-rich anti-EV crowd will continue to rail against "elitist" middle class EV owners because it gets results for them. > The reality is [that] nobody benefits more from EVs in principle than > those who drive the longest distances, often our rural Americans. I'm obviously pro-EV, and it's theoretically true, but I think that a fair number of people will go "say what?" at that. > Biden also has set a goal of 50% electric vehicle sales by 2030, part > of a broader effort to become zero emissions economywide by 2050. Great goal. Getting there is going to require a LOT more pushing. And the USPS vehicle update PMG-lit dumpster fire is a disaster for a goal like that - 90% ICEVs getting 8.5mpg. Good grief. > Electric vehicles amounted to less than 3% of U.S. new auto sales last > year, but forecasters expect big increases in the next decade. "Big increases." Don't hold your breath. In Europe, unquestionably. Also in some isolated but open-minded small nations such as Uruguay. Maybe in China. Doubtful in Japan and US, and extremely unlikely elsewhere. > Electric vehicle owners now charge their vehicles at home 80% of the > time, making the need for EV charging stations at colleges, > apartment-building parking lots or even public streets less urgent. But > that is likely to change as more people who don't have a garage to > house a charging station buy EVs. Wait, what? Colleges and apartment parking lots ARE places where potential EV owners would charge *at home*. They aren't in the same category as on- street or public parking lot charging. Actually, ALL of the above can provide home charging. To me the use of public charging has been a major surprise in Europe. I expected slower EV uptake there because so many people don't have garages or even off-street parking. Even Renault, arguably the EU's EV leader, fouled this up. They didn't bother with Zoe DC CCS for 7 years, because they assumed that most owners would charge at home. When they finally added it in 2020, they made it a 1k euro (!) option and limited it to 50kW. But lo and behold, Europe's EV buyers seem to be really digging the free charging offered by local governments and merchants - even though thanks in part to Renault's bork it's mostly 7kW / 22kW AC. What happens when that's saturated and starts to require payment? Stay tuned. Anyway, this is mosty good news, and I hope that it improves the highway charging situation all across the US. David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it. Use my offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = The future is here, and everything needs to be destroyed. -- Allegheny Shredders = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
[EVDL] $7.5b for new EV charge stations across US
States get go-ahead to build electric car charging stations https://www.seattletimes.com/business/states-get-go-ahead-to-build-electric-car-charging-stations/ By HOPE YEN The Associated Press States are getting the go-ahead to build a nationwide network of electric vehicle charging stations that would place new or upgraded ones every 50 miles along interstate highways as part of the Biden administration’s plan to spur widespread adoption of the zero-emission cars. ... The administration Thursday announced the availability of $5 billion in federal money to states over five years ... states must submit plans to the federal government and can begin construction by this fall if they focus first on highway routes, rather than neighborhoods and shopping centers, ... Each station would need to have at least four fast-charger ports ... [Buttigieg] “Many might think of them as a luxury item,” he said. “The reality is nobody benefits more from EVs in principle than those who drive the longest distances, often our rural Americans.” ... The law provides an additional $2.5 billion for local grants, ... to fill remaining gaps in the charging network in rural areas and in disadvantaged communities ... Biden also has set a goal of 50% electric vehicle sales by 2030, part of a broader effort to become zero emissions economywide by 2050. Electric vehicles amounted to less than 3% of U.S. new auto sales last year, but forecasters expect big increases in the next decade. Consumers bought about 400,000 fully electric vehicles. ... Electric vehicle owners now charge their vehicles at home 80% of the time, making the need for EV charging stations at colleges, apartment-building parking lots or even public streets less urgent. But that is likely to change as more people who don’t have a garage to house a charging station buy EVs. ... -- Peri << Annoyed by leaf blowers ? https://quietcleanseattle.org/ >> ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
