Re: [EVDL] $7.5bn for ev charging across the US
Politically, we can't get rid of fossil fuel subsidies without providing substantial EV subsidies. Many lower income people depend on driving their own car to get to work, services, and shopping. Urban areas tend to be too expensive for them to live there, so they are relegated to the suburbs and exurbs. If we eliminate subsidies, their cost of transportation will go up and their pushback won't be pretty. Of course, the cost would go up for middle and upper class, too, but they can afford it. And those subsidies are coming from taxes paid mostly by the middle and upper classes. Ideally, lower income people shouldn't have to drive so far for everything. But changing that is also very difficult. On the other hand, if we eliminate all fossil fuel subsidies but ensure the lower income class can buy cheap EVs (or get some other kind of subsidy), we might have a workable plan. Peri << Annoyed by leaf blowers ? https://quietcleanseattle.org/ >> -- Original Message -- From: "nathan christiansn via EV" To: ev@lists.evdl.org Cc: "nathan christiansn" Sent: 13-Feb-22 15:08:44 Subject: Re: [EVDL] $7.5bn for ev charging across the US I think I much better way for the government to promote evs would be to get rid of fossil fuel subsidies. This would increase the price of gas which would undoubly make owning an ev more appealing. Additionally, the government would be spending less money instead of more, which makes eliminating fossil fuel subsidies a very appropriate decision for a government that is $28 trillion in debt. Subsidizing both fossil fuels and ev charging seems to just be creating needless bureaucracy to me. -Nathan -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20220213/2fb81c05/attachment.html> ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] $7.5bn for ev charging across the US
I think I much better way for the government to promote evs would be to get rid of fossil fuel subsidies. This would increase the price of gas which would undoubly make owning an ev more appealing. Additionally, the government would be spending less money instead of more, which makes eliminating fossil fuel subsidies a very appropriate decision for a government that is $28 trillion in debt. Subsidizing both fossil fuels and ev charging seems to just be creating needless bureaucracy to me. -Nathan -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20220213/2fb81c05/attachment.html> ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] $7.5bn for ev charging stations across the US
I got that from the link in my email. Jay On 2/13/22 10:11, Peri Hartman via EV wrote: Jay, do you have a reference for the 5.9 t ? I'd like to have that so I can pop this number on people moaning about subsidies for EVs and clean energy, etc. Peri << Annoyed by leaf blowers ? https://quietcleanseattle.org/ >> -- Original Message -- From: "Jay Summet via EV" To: ev@lists.evdl.org Cc: "Jay Summet" Sent: 13-Feb-22 05:01:18 Subject: Re: [EVDL] $7.5bn for ev charging stations across the US On 2/11/22 17:22, Willie via EV wrote: On 2/11/22 5:04 PM, nathan christiansn via EV wrote: The only problem that I see with this is that the government is making people who do not support ev’s pay for ev charging. A government that is 28 trillion dollars in debt should not be spending billions of dollars that it does not hav I agree with the idea of limited government, but they should also stop subsidizing the oil industry (to the tune of 5.9 TRILLION, each year). https://e360.yale.edu/digest/fossil-fuels-received-5-9-trillion-in-subsidies-in-2020-report-finds 7.5 billion over a few years to build out charging infrastructure and jump start EV adoption is nothing compared to that. Jay ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] $7.5bn for ev charging stations across the US
On 13 Feb 2022 at 13:08, paul dove via EV wrote: > Explicit subsidies accounted for only 8 percent of the total. The > remaining 92 percent were implicit subsidies What a load of hooey. It's all money. It's all corporate welfare - socialism for the rich. What the freak are you doing shilling for Exxon and BP, anyway? David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it. Use my offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Hypothetical median income of full-time US workers if income were distributed as evenly as it was in 1975: $92,000 Actual median income of full-time US workers: $50,000 -- Harper's Index, December 2020 = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] $7.5bn for ev charging stations across the US
Explicit subsidies accounted for only 8 percent of the total. The remaining 92 percent were implicit subsidies, which took the form of tax breaks or, to a much larger degree, health and environmental damages that were not priced into the cost of fossil fuels, according to the analysis. So not really! Sent from AT Yahoo Mail for iPhone On Sunday, February 13, 2022, 7:01 AM, Jay Summet via EV wrote: On 2/11/22 17:22, Willie via EV wrote: > > On 2/11/22 5:04 PM, nathan christiansn via EV wrote: >> The only problem that I see with this is that the government is making >> people who do not support ev’s pay for ev charging. >> A government that is 28 trillion dollars in debt should not be spending >> billions of dollars that it does not hav I agree with the idea of limited government, but they should also stop subsidizing the oil industry (to the tune of 5.9 TRILLION, each year). https://e360.yale.edu/digest/fossil-fuels-received-5-9-trillion-in-subsidies-in-2020-report-finds 7.5 billion over a few years to build out charging infrastructure and jump start EV adoption is nothing compared to that. Jay ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20220213/ccc45a18/attachment.html> ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] $7.5bn for ev charging stations across the US
Jay, do you have a reference for the 5.9 t ? I'd like to have that so I can pop this number on people moaning about subsidies for EVs and clean energy, etc. Peri << Annoyed by leaf blowers ? https://quietcleanseattle.org/ >> -- Original Message -- From: "Jay Summet via EV" To: ev@lists.evdl.org Cc: "Jay Summet" Sent: 13-Feb-22 05:01:18 Subject: Re: [EVDL] $7.5bn for ev charging stations across the US On 2/11/22 17:22, Willie via EV wrote: On 2/11/22 5:04 PM, nathan christiansn via EV wrote: The only problem that I see with this is that the government is making people who do not support ev’s pay for ev charging. A government that is 28 trillion dollars in debt should not be spending billions of dollars that it does not hav I agree with the idea of limited government, but they should also stop subsidizing the oil industry (to the tune of 5.9 TRILLION, each year). https://e360.yale.edu/digest/fossil-fuels-received-5-9-trillion-in-subsidies-in-2020-report-finds 7.5 billion over a few years to build out charging infrastructure and jump start EV adoption is nothing compared to that. Jay ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] $7.5bn for ev charging stations across the US
On 2/11/22 17:22, Willie via EV wrote: On 2/11/22 5:04 PM, nathan christiansn via EV wrote: The only problem that I see with this is that the government is making people who do not support ev’s pay for ev charging. A government that is 28 trillion dollars in debt should not be spending billions of dollars that it does not hav I agree with the idea of limited government, but they should also stop subsidizing the oil industry (to the tune of 5.9 TRILLION, each year). https://e360.yale.edu/digest/fossil-fuels-received-5-9-trillion-in-subsidies-in-2020-report-finds 7.5 billion over a few years to build out charging infrastructure and jump start EV adoption is nothing compared to that. Jay ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
