Re: [EVDL] Game over the Tesla NACS wins the day

[Danny Ames via EV]

 Forwarding post from GGEVA group member Randy Spencer 
On Fri, Jun 9, 2023 at 8:32 AM Randy Spencer via groups.io 
 wrote:

Yes, Tesla is implementing CCS standard 15118 Plug and Charge (as should all 
other Charge Vendors). 
"The user-convenient and secure Plug & Charge feature that envisioned with ISO 
15118 enables an electric vehicle to automatically identify and authorize 
itself to a compatible charging station on behalf of the driver, to receive 
energy for recharging its battery. The only action required by the driver is to 
plug the charging cable into the EV and/or charging station, because the car 
and the charger identify themselves to each other by exchanging certificates 
which were provided beforehand via a certificate pool to facilitate payment.”
That’s the ‘billing' bit that I mentioned earlier, the adapter will be passive 
so communications will go right from the car to the Supercharger or other NACS 
stations.
As to the fuses, I think they are so rare to blow that you’ll be glad to be rid 
of an adapter that did blow, something really bad happened and could have 
caused other damage. If you wanna check the connection more circumspectly 
you’ll need active monitoring and w/o a power source you’d need a battery and 
that could die waiting for you to use the adapter so probably not going to have 
any built like that.

On Friday, June 9, 2023 at 02:53:13 PM PDT, EV List Lackey via EV 
 wrote:  
 
 On 9 Jun 2023 at 8:04, Tom Keenan via EV wrote:

> I´m curious how Tesla will do billing for non-Tesla vehicles. Will the
> vehicle be identified by the charging station (as Teslas are at
> superchargers?) or will it be via app? 

Dumb question, maybe, but assuming that the terminal is open to all EVs, why 
do they need to identify vehicles at all?  

If the user presents a valid credit card, or maybe an RFID card if you must, 
then let him charge.  Credit cards work just fine for gasoline filling 
stations.  

What am I missing here?

> I also wonder if Tesla will disallow some vehicles (or certain models)
> from charging on the supercharger network if something were to occur,
> such as... a dispute with the other manufacturer? 

Yeah, this. Musk scares me.  I can totally see him doing something like 
this, even if it means losing revenue.

He seems to get weirder and more unpredictable by the day. Watching him 
flush ~$30 billion in value while making Twitter into his own personal 
playground was quite eye--opening.  

I really wonder if he's starting to lose it, maybe partly from overwork.

There'll be adapters to CCS-charge those new NACS Fords and GMs - right?

David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey

To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it.  Use my 
offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 

    Those who would repeat the past must control the teaching 
    of history.
 
                              -- Frank Herbert, "Dune" 
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 

___
Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org
No other addresses in TO and CC fields
HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/

  
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

___
Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org
No other addresses in TO and CC fields
HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/

Re: [EVDL] Game over the Tesla NACS wins the day

[John Lussmyer via EV]

On 6/9/2023 2:52 PM, EV List Lackey via EV wrote:

There'll be adapters to CCS-charge those new NACS Fords and GMs - right?

Already exist for Tesla owners.
___
Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org
No other addresses in TO and CC fields
HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/

Re: [EVDL] Game over the Tesla NACS wins the day

[EV List Lackey via EV]

On 9 Jun 2023 at 8:04, Tom Keenan via EV wrote:

> I´m curious how Tesla will do billing for non-Tesla vehicles. Will the
> vehicle be identified by the charging station (as Teslas are at
> superchargers?) or will it be via app? 

Dumb question, maybe, but assuming that the terminal is open to all EVs, why 
do they need to identify vehicles at all?  

If the user presents a valid credit card, or maybe an RFID card if you must, 
then let him charge.  Credit cards work just fine for gasoline filling 
stations.  

What am I missing here?

> I also wonder if Tesla will disallow some vehicles (or certain models)
> from charging on the supercharger network if something were to occur,
> such as... a dispute with the other manufacturer? 

Yeah, this. Musk scares me.  I can totally see him doing something like 
this, even if it means losing revenue.

He seems to get weirder and more unpredictable by the day. Watching him 
flush ~$30 billion in value while making Twitter into his own personal 
playground was quite eye--opening.  

I really wonder if he's starting to lose it, maybe partly from overwork.

There'll be adapters to CCS-charge those new NACS Fords and GMs - right?

David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey

To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it.  Use my 
offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 

 Those who would repeat the past must control the teaching 
 of history.
 
  -- Frank Herbert, "Dune" 
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 

___
Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org
No other addresses in TO and CC fields
HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/

Re: [EVDL] need new home ESVE

[(-Phil-) via EV]

I recently installed one of these for a friend, and it seems to be pretty
solid for a low-cost Chinese EVSE that will do 40A.   It's on sale for $291
right now:  https://amzn.to/45XTY9a

On Fri, Jun 9, 2023 at 2:30 PM Ken Olum via EV  wrote:

> People I know who have the Grizzl-E seems to like it.
>
> Ken
>
> ___
> Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org
> No other addresses in TO and CC fields
> HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/
>
>
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 
<http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20230609/264b122c/attachment.htm>
___
Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org
No other addresses in TO and CC fields
HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/

Re: [EVDL] need new home ESVE

[Ken Olum via EV]

People I know who have the Grizzl-E seems to like it.

Ken

___
Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org
No other addresses in TO and CC fields
HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/

Re: [EVDL] Game over the Tesla NACS wins the day

[paul dove via EV]

With a Tesla you have an account with cc information already stored.


Sent from AT&T Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Friday, June 9, 2023, 10:05 AM, Tom Keenan via EV  wrote:

If NACS does become the standard, I’m curious how Tesla will do billing for 
non-Tesla vehicles. Will the vehicle be identified by the charging station (as 
Teslas are at superchargers?) or will it be via app?

I also wonder if Tesla will disallow some vehicles (or certain models) from 
charging on the supercharger network if something were to occur, such as a 
battery recall, a vehicle being reported as being involved in an accident, or 
even a dispute with the other manufacturer?

From the direction of other EVSE providers (such as EA), is it possible to 
modify current EVSE to have both CCS and NACS on the same equipment?  Perhaps 
swap out one of the two CCS cables (such as is done with some Chademo 
installs)? 

Seems odd that EA oftentimes installs two CCS cables on a device that only 
serves one parking space, so that might make more sense. 

Or is it significantly more complicated than adding a digital handshaking part 
for NACS to work with the analog-based CCS stations?

Anecdotally, I’ve noticed that some issues with EA charging stations might be 
related to poor cell signal coverage at some sites. It seems that when I’ve had 
troubles getting EA EVSE to work/process payment, it is typically in a spot 
with less than two bars of cell service. 

Tom Keenan

> On Jun 9, 2023, at 3:35 AM, EV List Lackey via EV  wrote:
> 
> Interesting.  For me, strictly academically so, since neither GM nor Ford 
> now offers an EV that I'd even consider buying.
> 
> Regrettable too that we can't have a worldwide charging standard, and one 
> not dictated by a particular automaker.  
> 
> That second condition may be just the foul aftertaste left by Magne Charge, 
> rammed through by GM.
> 
> CCS Type 2 is the EU standard.  Even Teslas use it here.  Works for me. :-)
> 
> In China it's GB/T.  
> 
> I think that Japan is still "plugging away" with Chademo.  Not that it 
> matters that much, since Japan is even more of an EV laggard than the US, 
> thanks to Toyota's anti-EV influence.  Though I read recently that Toyota's 
> new chairman may be less opposed to EVs.
> 
> David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey
> 
> To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it.  Use my 
> offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt
> 
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 
> 
>    Believe it or not, there are physical structures called stores 
>    designed for in-person shopping. Most have signs outside, adver-
>    tising what they sell. Grocery stores sell food; clothing stores 
>    sell clothing. Home Depot sells homes and depots, Trader Joe's 
>    sells sloppy joes, and Target sells everything but what you wanted.
> 
>                                                        -- Janet Periat
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 
> 
> ___
> Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org
> No other addresses in TO and CC fields
> HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/
> 

___
Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org
No other addresses in TO and CC fields
HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/




-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 
<http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20230609/7b5f4b98/attachment.htm>
___
Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org
No other addresses in TO and CC fields
HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/

Re: [EVDL] need new home ESVE

[Rod Hower via EV]

 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08PQ42SJ4
That one has a 28 foot cable but only goes up to 16A on 240 which is fine for 
my Chevy Volt but might not be enough for your application.  $229
On Friday, June 9, 2023 at 10:31:41 AM EDT, Peri Hartman via EV 
 wrote:  
 
 My ESVE stopped working. I'm planning to replace it and would like some 
suggestions.

The low voltage circuit blew a fuse. I put in a new one and it 
practically exploded. Obviously a dead short which, I presume, means the 
power supply went bad. I'm sure I could replace that but I'm not sure I 
want to spend the time trying to find the part and to do the swap.

I've looked online at several J1772 ESVEs. I have a 40A circuit with a 
nema 6-50 socket (I think). I need a 20'-25' cable. Will be outdoor.

AEFA Mini Cooper
https://ev-chargers.com/mini/mini-cooper-se-ev-chargers/
$275, up to 40A (input or output, don't know), 6-50 option, compact.

Grizzl-E GR1-14-24-P, GR1-6-24-P
https://grizzl-e.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/Classic-brochure-letter-2022-1.pdf
$395, 32A output on 40A circuit, 6-50 option, reasonably compact.

Kind of expensive: Juicebox 40
https://evcharging.enelx.com/images/JuiceBox/PDF/Next-Gen_JuiceBox_40_1_15.pdf
$649, 40A circuit, 14-50 plug (I'll have to rewire socket),  moderately 
compact.

Consider: Lectron 30A
https://ev-lectron.com/products/lectron-portable-electric-car-charger-32a
$306. Can't find any specs, which gives strong negative vibes.

Any suggestions ?

<< Annoyed by leaf blowers ? https://quietcleanseattle.org/ >>
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 
<http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20230609/f8f0a5a9/attachment.htm>
___
Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org
No other addresses in TO and CC fields
HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/

  
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 
<http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20230609/b62944d4/attachment.htm>
___
Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org
No other addresses in TO and CC fields
HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/

Re: [EVDL] Game over the Tesla NACS wins the day

[Tom Keenan via EV]

If NACS does become the standard, I’m curious how Tesla will do billing for 
non-Tesla vehicles. Will the vehicle be identified by the charging station (as 
Teslas are at superchargers?) or will it be via app?

I also wonder if Tesla will disallow some vehicles (or certain models) from 
charging on the supercharger network if something were to occur, such as a 
battery recall, a vehicle being reported as being involved in an accident, or 
even a dispute with the other manufacturer?

From the direction of other EVSE providers (such as EA), is it possible to 
modify current EVSE to have both CCS and NACS on the same equipment?  Perhaps 
swap out one of the two CCS cables (such as is done with some Chademo 
installs)? 

Seems odd that EA oftentimes installs two CCS cables on a device that only 
serves one parking space, so that might make more sense. 

Or is it significantly more complicated than adding a digital handshaking part 
for NACS to work with the analog-based CCS stations?

Anecdotally, I’ve noticed that some issues with EA charging stations might be 
related to poor cell signal coverage at some sites. It seems that when I’ve had 
troubles getting EA EVSE to work/process payment, it is typically in a spot 
with less than two bars of cell service. 

Tom Keenan

> On Jun 9, 2023, at 3:35 AM, EV List Lackey via EV  wrote:
> 
> Interesting.  For me, strictly academically so, since neither GM nor Ford 
> now offers an EV that I'd even consider buying.
> 
> Regrettable too that we can't have a worldwide charging standard, and one 
> not dictated by a particular automaker.  
> 
> That second condition may be just the foul aftertaste left by Magne Charge, 
> rammed through by GM.
> 
> CCS Type 2 is the EU standard.  Even Teslas use it here.  Works for me. :-)
> 
> In China it's GB/T.  
> 
> I think that Japan is still "plugging away" with Chademo.  Not that it 
> matters that much, since Japan is even more of an EV laggard than the US, 
> thanks to Toyota's anti-EV influence.  Though I read recently that Toyota's 
> new chairman may be less opposed to EVs.
> 
> David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey
> 
> To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it.  Use my 
> offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt
> 
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 
> 
> Believe it or not, there are physical structures called stores 
> designed for in-person shopping. Most have signs outside, adver-
> tising what they sell. Grocery stores sell food; clothing stores 
> sell clothing. Home Depot sells homes and depots, Trader Joe's 
> sells sloppy joes, and Target sells everything but what you wanted.
> 
>-- Janet Periat
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 
> 
> ___
> Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org
> No other addresses in TO and CC fields
> HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/
> 

___
Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org
No other addresses in TO and CC fields
HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/

[EVDL] need new home ESVE

[Peri Hartman via EV]

My ESVE stopped working. I'm planning to replace it and would like some 
suggestions.


The low voltage circuit blew a fuse. I put in a new one and it 
practically exploded. Obviously a dead short which, I presume, means the 
power supply went bad. I'm sure I could replace that but I'm not sure I 
want to spend the time trying to find the part and to do the swap.


I've looked online at several J1772 ESVEs. I have a 40A circuit with a 
nema 6-50 socket (I think). I need a 20'-25' cable. Will be outdoor.


AEFA Mini Cooper
https://ev-chargers.com/mini/mini-cooper-se-ev-chargers/
$275, up to 40A (input or output, don't know), 6-50 option, compact.

Grizzl-E GR1-14-24-P, GR1-6-24-P
https://grizzl-e.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/Classic-brochure-letter-2022-1.pdf
$395, 32A output on 40A circuit, 6-50 option, reasonably compact.

Kind of expensive: Juicebox 40
https://evcharging.enelx.com/images/JuiceBox/PDF/Next-Gen_JuiceBox_40_1_15.pdf
$649, 40A circuit, 14-50 plug (I'll have to rewire socket),  moderately 
compact.


Consider: Lectron 30A
https://ev-lectron.com/products/lectron-portable-electric-car-charger-32a
$306. Can't find any specs, which gives strong negative vibes.

Any suggestions ?

<< Annoyed by leaf blowers ? https://quietcleanseattle.org/ >>
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 
<http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20230609/f8f0a5a9/attachment.htm>
___
Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org
No other addresses in TO and CC fields
HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/

Re: [EVDL] Game over the Tesla NACS wins the day

[EV List Lackey via EV]

Interesting.  For me, strictly academically so, since neither GM nor Ford 
now offers an EV that I'd even consider buying.

Regrettable too that we can't have a worldwide charging standard, and one 
not dictated by a particular automaker.  

That second condition may be just the foul aftertaste left by Magne Charge, 
rammed through by GM.

CCS Type 2 is the EU standard.  Even Teslas use it here.  Works for me. :-)

In China it's GB/T.  

I think that Japan is still "plugging away" with Chademo.  Not that it 
matters that much, since Japan is even more of an EV laggard than the US, 
thanks to Toyota's anti-EV influence.  Though I read recently that Toyota's 
new chairman may be less opposed to EVs.

David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey

To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it.  Use my 
offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 

 Believe it or not, there are physical structures called stores 
 designed for in-person shopping. Most have signs outside, adver-
 tising what they sell. Grocery stores sell food; clothing stores 
 sell clothing. Home Depot sells homes and depots, Trader Joe's 
 sells sloppy joes, and Target sells everything but what you wanted.

-- Janet Periat
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 

___
Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org
No other addresses in TO and CC fields
HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/