Re: [EVDL] Centenaries for trucks

[Mark Abramowitz via EV]

The testing approval occurred at about the same as Edison was taking it’s time 
in restoring power to parts of Los Angeles where lines were down, leading a 
County Supervisor, whose District was impacted, to oppose it, and to comment, 
“when you get into bed with Edison, you wake up with more than a good night’s 
sleep”.

Yes, he really said it - I was there.

- Mark

Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone

> On Aug 3, 2021, at 7:14 PM, Haudy Kazemi via EV  wrote:
> 
> There are additional complications to consider, such as oversize loads on
> those same roads, and consequences of crashes. If a crash knocks out a
> catenary, I'd guess the safety fuse for that section of roadway would
> blow...which then would stop any vehicles without at least some onboard
> batteries.
> 
> Railroads have a lot of control over the railcars traveling on their rail
> lines. Highway departments have less control over highway vehicles.
> 
> 
>> On Tue, Aug 3, 2021, 21:06 Mark Abramowitz via EV  wrote:
>> 
>> There was a one or two mile test of a catenary system near the ports in
>> Los Angeles several years ago, using Siemens technology.
>> 
>> The pilot project had an interesting twist - the pantograph would be
>> connected for a portion of the trip, and then the truck would operate
>> normally under whatever normally powered it - diesel or natural gas.
>> 
>> There are videos of the system in operation, but the problem was that
>> there were constant problems in even constructing the overhead wire system.
>> If anyone is interested, there must be a final report or summary out there
>> someplace.
>> 
>> The Siemens guys were nice, the project - less so.
>> 
>> - Mark
>> 
>> Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone
>> 
>>> On Aug 3, 2021, at 12:02 PM, Peri Hartman via EV 
>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> What if Highways Were Electric? Germany Is Testing the Idea.
>>> 
>> https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/03/business/electric-trucks-catenary-wire.html#commentsContainer
>>> 
>>> There’s a debate over how to make the trucking industry free of
>> emissions, and whether batteries or hydrogen fuel cells are the best way to
>> fire up electric motors in big vehicles. Mr. Schmieder was part of a test

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Re: [EVDL] Centenaries for trucks

[Haudy Kazemi via EV]

There are additional complications to consider, such as oversize loads on
those same roads, and consequences of crashes. If a crash knocks out a
catenary, I'd guess the safety fuse for that section of roadway would
blow...which then would stop any vehicles without at least some onboard
batteries.

Railroads have a lot of control over the railcars traveling on their rail
lines. Highway departments have less control over highway vehicles.


On Tue, Aug 3, 2021, 21:06 Mark Abramowitz via EV  wrote:

> There was a one or two mile test of a catenary system near the ports in
> Los Angeles several years ago, using Siemens technology.
>
> The pilot project had an interesting twist - the pantograph would be
> connected for a portion of the trip, and then the truck would operate
> normally under whatever normally powered it - diesel or natural gas.
>
> There are videos of the system in operation, but the problem was that
> there were constant problems in even constructing the overhead wire system.
> If anyone is interested, there must be a final report or summary out there
> someplace.
>
> The Siemens guys were nice, the project - less so.
>
> - Mark
>
> Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone
>
> > On Aug 3, 2021, at 12:02 PM, Peri Hartman via EV 
> wrote:
> >
> > What if Highways Were Electric? Germany Is Testing the Idea.
> >
> https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/03/business/electric-trucks-catenary-wire.html#commentsContainer
> >
> > There’s a debate over how to make the trucking industry free of
> emissions, and whether batteries or hydrogen fuel cells are the best way to
> fire up electric motors in big vehicles. Mr. Schmieder was part of a test
> of a third alternative: a system that feeds electricity to trucks as they
> drive, using wires strung above the roadway and a pantograph mounted on the
> cab.
> > ...
> > And the system is relatively simple. Siemens, the German electronics
> giant that provided the hardware for this test route, adapted equipment
> that has been used for decades to drive trains and urban street cars.
> > ...
> > So far the sections of highway equipped with overhead cable in Germany
> are short — about three miles long in both directions near Frankfurt. Their
> purpose is to test how the system performs in everyday use by real trucking
> companies hauling real goods. By the end of the year more than 20 trucks
> will be using the systems in Germany.
> > ...
> > Longer term, according to Siemens figures, 4,000 kilometers of wired
> highway, or nearly 2,500 miles, would accommodate 60 percent of German
> truck traffic.
> > ...
> > But the onus would be on the German government to build the overhead
> cables, which cost an estimated 2.5 million euros per kilometer, or about
> $5 million per mile.
> > ...
> > But, responding to questions from The New York Times, the ministry noted
> that batteries are getting cheaper and better all the time, and charging
> times are dropping. “In the final analysis the total cost of
> infrastructure, vehicles and energy will decide what technology or
> combination of technologies prevails,” the ministry said.
> > ...
> > The cables also recharged the Scania’s battery, which stores enough
> power to drive short distances emission-free in urban traffic. That is
> another advantage of the catenary system:  The eHighway could eliminate the
> need for charging stops, important in the trucking industry where time is
> money.
> >
> > -
> >
> > The fact that Tesla nearly has a semi tractor capable of many long haul
> routes leads me to believe the battery solution will win. Nonetheless, it's
> great to see this experiment happening.
> >
> > Peri
> >
> > << Annoyed by leaf blowers ? https://quietcleanseattle.org/ >>
> >
> > ___
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> >
>
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Re: [EVDL] Centenaries for trucks

[Mark Abramowitz via EV]

There was a one or two mile test of a catenary system near the ports in Los 
Angeles several years ago, using Siemens technology.

The pilot project had an interesting twist - the pantograph would be connected 
for a portion of the trip, and then the truck would operate normally under 
whatever normally powered it - diesel or natural gas.

There are videos of the system in operation, but the problem was that there 
were constant problems in even constructing the overhead wire system. If anyone 
is interested, there must be a final report or summary out there someplace.

The Siemens guys were nice, the project - less so. 

- Mark

Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone

> On Aug 3, 2021, at 12:02 PM, Peri Hartman via EV  wrote:
> 
> What if Highways Were Electric? Germany Is Testing the Idea.
> https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/03/business/electric-trucks-catenary-wire.html#commentsContainer
> 
> There’s a debate over how to make the trucking industry free of emissions, 
> and whether batteries or hydrogen fuel cells are the best way to fire up 
> electric motors in big vehicles. Mr. Schmieder was part of a test of a third 
> alternative: a system that feeds electricity to trucks as they drive, using 
> wires strung above the roadway and a pantograph mounted on the cab.
> ...
> And the system is relatively simple. Siemens, the German electronics giant 
> that provided the hardware for this test route, adapted equipment that has 
> been used for decades to drive trains and urban street cars.
> ...
> So far the sections of highway equipped with overhead cable in Germany are 
> short — about three miles long in both directions near Frankfurt. Their 
> purpose is to test how the system performs in everyday use by real trucking 
> companies hauling real goods. By the end of the year more than 20 trucks will 
> be using the systems in Germany.
> ...
> Longer term, according to Siemens figures, 4,000 kilometers of wired highway, 
> or nearly 2,500 miles, would accommodate 60 percent of German truck traffic.
> ...
> But the onus would be on the German government to build the overhead cables, 
> which cost an estimated 2.5 million euros per kilometer, or about $5 million 
> per mile.
> ...
> But, responding to questions from The New York Times, the ministry noted that 
> batteries are getting cheaper and better all the time, and charging times are 
> dropping. “In the final analysis the total cost of infrastructure, vehicles 
> and energy will decide what technology or combination of technologies 
> prevails,” the ministry said.
> ...
> The cables also recharged the Scania’s battery, which stores enough power to 
> drive short distances emission-free in urban traffic. That is another 
> advantage of the catenary system:  The eHighway could eliminate the need for 
> charging stops, important in the trucking industry where time is money.
> 
> -
> 
> The fact that Tesla nearly has a semi tractor capable of many long haul 
> routes leads me to believe the battery solution will win. Nonetheless, it's 
> great to see this experiment happening.
> 
> Peri
> 
> << Annoyed by leaf blowers ? https://quietcleanseattle.org/ >>
> 
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> 

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Re: [EVDL] Centenaries for trucks

[(-Phil-) via EV]

I wanna see electrification of what's left of the US rail network this
way.  Seems like a no-brainer, but it's a big investment that will take a
while to pay off.

On Tue, Aug 3, 2021 at 12:27 PM EVDL Administrator via EV 
wrote:

> The subject looks like an auto-incorrection error.  I think it's supposed
> to
> be "catenaries."  (Bloody smartphones think they're smarter than they are.)
>
> From the Oxford Dictionary:
>
> Centenary: The hundredth anniversary of a significant event; a centennial.
>
> Catenary: A curve formed by a wire, rope, or chain hanging freely from two
> points and forming a U shape.
>
> Also: https://locomotive.fandom.com/wiki/Catenary
>
> > the onus would be on the German government to build the overhead
> > cables, which cost an estimated 2.5 million euros per kilometer, or
> > about $5 million per mile
>
> I may be missing something here, but wouldn't it be more economical to
> promote more use of rail freight instead?  Maybe even subsidize it?  EU
> rails are already electrified.
>
> David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey
>
> To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it.  Use my
> offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt
>
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>  A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.
>
>  -- Edward R Murrow
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>
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Re: [EVDL] Centenaries for trucks

[EVDL Administrator via EV]

The subject looks like an auto-incorrection error.  I think it's supposed to 
be "catenaries."  (Bloody smartphones think they're smarter than they are.)

>From the Oxford Dictionary:

Centenary: The hundredth anniversary of a significant event; a centennial.

Catenary: A curve formed by a wire, rope, or chain hanging freely from two 
points and forming a U shape.

Also: https://locomotive.fandom.com/wiki/Catenary

> the onus would be on the German government to build the overhead
> cables, which cost an estimated 2.5 million euros per kilometer, or
> about $5 million per mile 

I may be missing something here, but wouldn't it be more economical to 
promote more use of rail freight instead?  Maybe even subsidize it?  EU 
rails are already electrified.

David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey

To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it.  Use my 
offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 
 A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.  

 -- Edward R Murrow 
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 

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[EVDL] Centenaries for trucks

[Peri Hartman via EV]

What if Highways Were Electric? Germany Is Testing the Idea.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/03/business/electric-trucks-catenary-wire.html#commentsContainer

There’s a debate over how to make the trucking industry free of 
emissions, and whether batteries or hydrogen fuel cells are the best way 
to fire up electric motors in big vehicles. Mr. Schmieder was part of a 
test of a third alternative: a system that feeds electricity to trucks 
as they drive, using wires strung above the roadway and a pantograph 
mounted on the cab.

...
And the system is relatively simple. Siemens, the German electronics 
giant that provided the hardware for this test route, adapted equipment 
that has been used for decades to drive trains and urban street cars.

...
So far the sections of highway equipped with overhead cable in Germany 
are short — about three miles long in both directions near Frankfurt. 
Their purpose is to test how the system performs in everyday use by real 
trucking companies hauling real goods. By the end of the year more than 
20 trucks will be using the systems in Germany.

...
Longer term, according to Siemens figures, 4,000 kilometers of wired 
highway, or nearly 2,500 miles, would accommodate 60 percent of German 
truck traffic.

...
But the onus would be on the German government to build the overhead 
cables, which cost an estimated 2.5 million euros per kilometer, or 
about $5 million per mile.

...
But, responding to questions from The New York Times, the ministry noted 
that batteries are getting cheaper and better all the time, and charging 
times are dropping. “In the final analysis the total cost of 
infrastructure, vehicles and energy will decide what technology or 
combination of technologies prevails,” the ministry said.

...
The cables also recharged the Scania’s battery, which stores enough 
power to drive short distances emission-free in urban traffic. That is 
another advantage of the catenary system:  The eHighway could eliminate 
the need for charging stops, important in the trucking industry where 
time is money.


-

The fact that Tesla nearly has a semi tractor capable of many long haul 
routes leads me to believe the battery solution will win. Nonetheless, 
it's great to see this experiment happening.


Peri

<< Annoyed by leaf blowers ? https://quietcleanseattle.org/ >>

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