Re: [EVDL] Comuta-Car PbSO4 batteries

[Gail Lucas via EV]

Wow!  What an amazing bunch of info on GC batteries.  Thank you to everyone 
who contributed comments and expert opinions.  Bruce, you went to a lot of 
trouble to even find local dealers for us and documentation on the cars, 
which I appreciate very much.  I knew there were many C-Car owners out there 
and you all offered great advice.  I do not yet know what the new owners are 
planning but at least they can see what the options are.  I really want them 
to enjoy the Comuta-Car as much as I did, not be disappointed by battery 
failures.  My C-Cars were my favorite EVs.


I apologize for the delay in thanking you all.  I have been struggling with 
some computer problems which I finally mostly resolved last night.


Gail


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Re: [EVDL] Comuta-Car PbSO4 batteries

[Tom Keenan via EV]

Another thing to consider when getting batteries is the overall height, 
including terminal posts.  There isn't much room height-wise in the bumpers 
where the batteries are located. Will the 8v batteries have the same physical 
dimension as the T-105?  The batteries nearest the ends of the Comutacar will 
have less of a problem, but the inboard batteries have a metal frame right 
above some of the terminals.
Changing from eight 6v to six 8v batteries to keep 48v may create too much room 
in the battery boxes, as they were designed to be more or less crammed in place 
and held down with a single bolt in the center of the four batteries, with the 
edges of the box keeping the square arrangement in line.
The charger in stock Comutacars is somewhat underpowered because there is 
another charging system for the 12v system battery that lives under the 
driver's seat.  If memory serves, the 48v charger puts out about 20 amps (~1kW) 
compared to the Lester chargers in older Citicars that put out about 25 amps 
(~1.2 kW). Both use about 14-15 amps from the wall plug, and the chargers are 
very sensitive to input voltage. If a normal 120 - 125 volts is present at the 
plug when charging, they would charge relatively quickly.  If the wiring wasn't 
up to spec, or the pole transformer was set low, (perhaps 110 to 115 volts) 
they would take forever to finish a charge, and would probably not get a good 
finish charge because they ended below 60 volts.
If the new buyer goes down to 36 volts (6 6v batteries) they will need a 
different charger, and the top speed will be reduced significantly, from about 
35 mph for 48v to 28 mph at 36 volts.  

Tom Keenan
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[EVDL] Comuta-Car PbSO4 batteries

[brucedp5 via EV]

[ref
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/GC-batteries-tp4675848.html
GC batteries
]

Following Gail's request to not consider li-ion and only purchase PbSO4
prices of T-15 equivalent batteries depend on where you are. The web still
states Gail is in Las Vegas, NV
I'll assume the L1 charger that Commuta-Car has is designed  set to safely
charge a 48VDC PbSO4 pack of T-105 group 24 size  100 to 120 minute @75A
batteries.

Which batteries the new owner buys will depend on their priorities, but just
as Lee had posted, you get what you pay for:

-if the new owner is on a steep EV learning curve, it might be better to go
with the cheapo Sam's batteries. But know that what ever blems/duds Sam's
sells, you (Gail) are going to be called upon for help.

With that in mind, I would opt for a better 'known-good' battery to have
less problems the owner would call you on: Trojan the best and most costly,
USBattery next level down ... (a lot of other brands in-between), to the
ones being dumped by Sam's (there is likely a good reason they are cheap).

Below I give the detail and local Las Vegas distributor contact
detail/method of a few brands (best to worst). At the end I added a couple
of links I hope will be also helpful.

If I (an experienced EV driver of over 15 years) knew I was going to
regularly use that EV, I would go for the USBattery as I have found using
them over many years of pack changes, theirs is the 'best-bang-for-the-buck'
(of course I am also the type that would modify the EV to be able to access
the public L2 6kW EVSE around Las Vegas, but that is just me).

One other point: For battery distributors, what model they sell the most of
is the one they can give the best price-to-capacity break on. Meaning, if
you ask the prices of each model when buying 6, and then divide the
actual-total-price to that model's capacity, you will see what kind of deal
you are getting Example if they sell large quantities of their US 2200 to
the local golf clubs around Las Vegas, it is likely the price break the
distributors gets will be passed along to the buyer.


http://www.trojanbattery.com/product/t-105/
T-105 @75 Amps 115mins L-10.30 (262cm) W-7.11 (181) H-11.07 (281)  62lbs
(28)

http://tools.trojanbattery.com/dealers.aspx
Battery Systems  MASTER DISTRIBUTOR  www.batterysystems.net
4500 South Arville Street  Las Vegas, Nevada 89103
Contact: Jim Allen  Telephone: 702-643-2500 Fax: 702-643-2555

Factory Motor Parts - Las Vegas  MASTER DISTRIBUTOR
3200 Builders Avenue  Las Vegas, Nevada 89101  
Contact: Marty Lebo  Telephone: 702-459-0566 (22)

http://www.hodgsoncorp.com/products/trojan.htm
(email for a quote)


http://usbattery.com/products/6-volt-batteries/
US 1800 XC2
US 2000 XC2  @ 75 Amps: 114mins  63.00 lbs
US 2200 XC2

http://usbattery.com/info-center/u-s-dealers/
Shelton Battery 3731 South Valley View Las Vegas NV 89103 702.362.8180

Battery Systems 4500 S Arville St Las Vegas NV 89103 702.643.2500


http://www.samsclub.com/sams/golf-cart-batteries/3990117.cp?refinementParam=RefinementrootDimension=dimGrpitem=1dimGrpbrand=2dimGrpproductrating=3dimGrpprice=4searchCategoryId=3990117altQuery=nullnavParam=nullsearchTerm=requestType=ajaxinteractedWith=customPriceisRatingSelected=falseselectedFilter=nullminPrice=70maxPrice=90currentMinPrice=50currentMaxPrice=200lowerPriceRange=50upperPriceRange=200pageView=listsortKey=p_sales_ranksortOrder=0noOfRecordsPerPage=12
~$90 6V Golf Battery @Sam's Club
 Duracell® Golf Car Battery - Group Size GC2 Item #: 347700 |Model #: GC2
 Energizer Golf Cart Battery - Group Size GC2 Item #: 1194 |Model #: Group
Size GC2 
 
http://www3.samsclub.com/clublocator/?xid=hnav_club-locator


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citicar
 ... Comuta-Car, produced by Commuter Vehicles, Inc. retained all of the
Transitional CitiCar changes including the larger 6 HP motor and drive train
arrangement, but moved the batteries from under the seat to battery boxes
behind the bumpers, making the vehicle about 16 inches (410 mm) longer than
the 8-foot (2.4 m) long CitiCar. ComutaCars also incorporated additional
frame supports to meet the new DOT standards. One of these supports created
the center console like rug covered divider between the driver and
passenger.

http://citicar.org/PARTS/PARTS.TXT
parts

http://www.hightechscience.org/ComutaCar.pdf
manual


{brucedp.150m.com}



On Fri, May 29, 2015, at 04:56 PM, Gail Lucas via EV wrote:
 Now trying to help select batteries for the ComutaCar.  I used Trojan
 T105s 
 when I had it and the new owner is looking for the same since they are
 still 
 in it but need to be replaced.  One of our local EV gurus suggested money 
 could be saved by using some from Sam's Club where they can be purchased
 for  under $90.00.  Please offer opinions, but not to upgrade to lithium. 
 That would be overkill for a C-Car.  I have not bought batteries for so
 long I
 am not up on what is considered the best of the lead-acid for this purpose
 ...
-




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