Re: An All/Nothing multiverse model

2004-12-01 Thread Hal Ruhl
Hi Bruno:
At 09:38 AM 11/30/2004, you wrote:
At 13:40 26/11/04 -0500, Hal Ruhl wrote:
What does logically possible mean?
In the above I meant in the context of the larger phrase of: logically 
possible worlds.

In the following call an individual [Ai,Dj] pair logic system Ln where i, 
j, and n can go from 1 to an uncountable infinity and all possible 
[Ai,D,j] pairings are considered.

A proposition P is logically possible, relatively to
1) a consistent set of beliefs A
2) the choice of a deduction system D (and then consistent
means does not derive 0=1).
if the negation of P is not deductible (in D) from A.
So in the larger phrase rather than dealing with a proposition P in 
relation to Ln I am exploring the range of [Ai,Dj] pairs that would be 
valid descriptions of worlds.  Call this sort after ensemble W.

The further issue is induction and whether or not it fails for a particular Ln.
Now suppose that belief set Ai includes the belief that Ai, and Dj for 
j over some range are both subject to random input from outside the system.

I see no reason to exclude the Ln which have such an Ai from being a valid 
description of a World.  It is just an explicit expression of 
incompleteness rather than an implicit one.   Thus there could be two 
subsets of Ai in W.

Is there any reason why the ensemble W can not for reasons of its own 
structure include Ai from both subsets and also insist that the 
incompletenesses both implicit and explicit be progressively resolved?  I 
know of none and to avoid a selection within the W it would seem that 
this arrangement is unavoidable.

Thus induction would fail for all worlds in W because the logical 
foundation for all worlds would be constantly shifting from one Ln to 
another.

Concerning many theories, to say that a proposition
(or a set of propositions) A is logically possible
is the same as saying that A is consistent (i.e you
cannot derive 0 = 1 from it),
When talking of descriptions of worlds - in such a venue consistency would 
only be applicable to individual states [if at all] and not to successions 
of states.  The question then is can the All [which contains W] contain 
self inconsistent states such as one with a correctly and completely 
assembled two wheeled tricycle or a cat that is both alive and dead or the 
same thing having two valid sets of coordinates?  Now the All is complete 
so it is internally inconsistent so I see no way to argue against the 
presence of such states founded on inconsistent Ai.

 or saying that A has a
model (a reality, a mathematical structure) satisfying
it.
It seems that the idea that mathematical structures are actually consistent 
is nice but lacks any basis.

To help place my model in context with the above:
A core idea is the definitional pair relationship.  The [All,Nothing] pair 
is unique in being inherently unavoidable but still summing to no 
information.  Thus it has no initiation and no end.

Another core idea is: Is there a meaningful question the Nothing must 
resolve?   The answer to this is: Yes there is:  The Nothing either 
continues [persists], or it does not.   The answer must be inherent in the 
information within the Nothing but there is none in there by 
definition.  Therefore the Nothing is incomplete - it can not resolve any 
meaningful question.  But in this case it must do so.  The only reservoir 
of information is the All.   Therefore it must breach the barrier between 
itself and the All.  In doing so it losses contact with what it was [an Ln 
shift] and becomes an evolving [including successive Ln shifts] - a 
multiverse - within the All.  Since the [All,Nothing] is as above an 
unavoidable definitional pair a new Nothing simultaneously replaces the 
old one.  The cycle repeats. The cycle always was and always will be and 
the All contains an infinite number of these Somethings all evolving 
towards completeness.  This produces waves of physical reality passing 
through a random sequence of states [including Ln shifts as per 
above].   The Somethings evolve because of their own incompleteness and the 
need for no selection no net information within the All.  The evolution 
must be random because of no selection and the All is internally 
inconsistent since it is complete.

Hal



Quantum Theory from Quantum Gravity

2004-12-01 Thread Saibal Mitra



http://arxiv.org/abs/gr-qc/0311059


Authors: Fotini 
Markopoulou, Lee 
Smolin
We provide a mechanism by which, from a background independent 
  model with no quantum mechanics, quantum theory arises in the same limit in 
  which spatial properties appear. Starting with an arbitrary abstract graph as 
  the microscopic model of spacetime, our ansatz is that the microscopic 
  dynamics can be chosen so that 1) the model has a low low energy limit which 
  reproduces the non-relativistic classical dynamics of a system of N particles 
  in flat spacetime, 2) there is a minimum length, and 3) some of the particles 
  are in a thermal bath or otherwise evolve stochastically. We then construct 
  simple functions of the degrees of freedom of the theory and show that their 
  probability distributions evolve according to the Schroedinger equation. The 
  non-local hidden variables required to satisfy the conditions of Bell's 
  theorem are the links in the fundamental graph that connect nodes adjacent in 
  the graph but distant in the approximate metric of the low energy limit. In 
  the presence of these links, distant stochastic fluctuations are transferred 
  into universal quantum fluctuations. 


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Re: Quantum Theory from Quantum Gravity

2004-12-01 Thread Stephen Paul King



Dear Saibal,

 A most interesting paper. It seems to me 
that Fotini and Lee are fooling themselves by being surprised that a quantized 
theory emerges when they start off with the requirement of a minimum length 
between the nodes of the graphs that they are using. Such an assumption will 
naturally lead to quantization since it is, in effect a form of quantization 
itself. I am disappointed that this was not noticed!

Kindest regards,

Stephen


  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Saibal 
  Mitra 
  To: everything 
  Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2004 8:39 
  PM
  Subject: Quantum Theory from Quantum 
  Gravity
  
  http://arxiv.org/abs/gr-qc/0311059
  
  
  Authors: Fotini 
  Markopoulou, Lee 
  Smolin
  We provide a mechanism by which, from a background independent 
model with no quantum mechanics, quantum theory arises in the same limit in 
which spatial properties appear. Starting with an arbitrary abstract graph 
as the microscopic model of spacetime, our ansatz is that the microscopic 
dynamics can be chosen so that 1) the model has a low low energy limit which 
reproduces the non-relativistic classical dynamics of a system of N 
particles in flat spacetime, 2) there is a minimum length, and 3) some of 
the particles are in a thermal bath or otherwise evolve stochastically. We 
then construct simple functions of the degrees of freedom of the theory and 
show that their probability distributions evolve according to the 
Schroedinger equation. The non-local hidden variables required to satisfy 
the conditions of Bell's theorem are the links in the fundamental graph that 
connect nodes adjacent in the graph but distant in the approximate metric of 
the low energy limit. In the presence of these links, distant stochastic 
fluctuations are transferred into universal quantum fluctuations. 
  
  
  
  --
  Defeat Spammers by launching DDOS attacks on Spam-Websites: 
  http://makelovenotspam.com/intl