Re: Cryonics punched cards and the brain

[John Clark]

On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 9:26 AM, spudboy100 via Everything List <
everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote:


> ​> ​
> Most here, seek to propagate atheism


I don't want to promote atheism, I want to promote rationality. If somebody
gave me a proof or even a hint that God may exist then I'd take the matter
seriously, but nobody ever has. And even if there were a rock solid proof
that God existed I'd still want to know why God gave a damn if I thought He
existed or not. And I mean that literally, why would God damn me to torture
for all eternity if I was unable to follow a logical proof?


> ​> ​
> As to questions of creation, I would add Steinhart's 4 minute Youtube
> lecture on Conway's Life. Well worth watching indeed. Clarity, via math and
> computer science.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouipbDkwHWA
>

​Take a look at this, it's only 89 seconds long ​but it's the most
mindblowing life video I've ever seen. And it has a surprise ending!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xP5-iIeKXE8


​  John K Clark​




​  ​

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Re: Cryonics punched cards and the brain

[spudboy100 via Everything List]

All this taken on faith alone. For those of us not blessed in faith, we have 
doubt, and that is reasonable doubt. Doubt is a bad companion, but I believe an 
evolved survival scheme in nature that worked. The danger with absolute faith 
is that God answers all questions so we need put much effort in our curiosity. 
Why spend time effort and money of it is all in God's hands? God answers all 
questions. Dark matter? God. superconductivity? God wills it. If God did not 
Will it, it would cease. This is what I term, an answer to the why questions. I 
am thinking that the HOW questions are now far more important. Why's are 
questions that might be answered by a sheep herder on a hill side. How is a far 
different question. How leads to more and more questions. How do we hook up a 
ceiling fan? How did dark matter form, specifically? How did we have so much 
normally charged matter, versus antimatter in the skies we see, and the 
accelerators we test?? By this reasoning How is much closer to God than why. If 
you decide so view Conway's Life lecture by Steinhart, we all see the How 
question partially resolved (always partially as Gödel reasoned).  Better 
future scientific equipment will surely bring better and better observations 
and measurements, and better conclusions. 

Don't ask me why, ask me how?

 
-Original Message-
From: Samiya Illias 
To: everything-list 
Sent: Tue, Feb 2, 2016 12:19 pm
Subject: Re: Cryonics punched cards and the brain



Answers to your questions according to the Quran: 
[Note: I'm pasting the literal translations of the verses; please follow the 
link for multiple translations in proper English]  


1. How did you come up with the idea for life? 
[Quran 67:2] The One Who created death and life that He may test you, which of 
you (is) best (in) deed. And He (is) the All-Mighty, the Oft-Forgiving. 
http://islamawakened.com/quran/67/2/ 



2. What are we doing wrong, as a species, and can we do anything about it? 
[Quran 30:30] So set your face to the religion upright. Nature (made by) Allah 
(upon) which He has created mankind [on it]. No change (should there be) in the 
creation (of) Allah. That (is) the religion the correct, but most men (do) not 
know. 
http://islamawakened.com/quran/30/30/ 



3. Do You need any help, assistance, from our specie? 
[Quran 57:25] Certainly We sent Our Messengers with clear proofs and We sent 
down with them the Scripture and the Balance that may establish the people 
justice. And We sent down [the] iron, wherein (is) power mighty and benefits 
for the people, and so that Allah may make evident (he) who helps Him and His 
Messengers, unseen. Indeed, Allah (is) All-Strong All-Mighty. 
http://islamawakened.com/quran/57/25/  



As for answer 2, I'm trying to comprehend the meaning of 'No change should 
there be in the creation of Allah' from the narrations of the past 
civilisations in the Quran. So far I've published six blogposts on the topic: 



Mission of the Messengers

Part I: World History & Future Implications
Part II: Satan's Enmity: Origin & Objective

Part III: Adam's Attempt to Improve upon Allah's Creation

Part IV: Balance & Guidance
Part V: Crime & Punishment


Part VI: Immortality & A Kingdom that Never Decays 




Samiya   



On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 7:26 PM, spudboy100 via Everything List 
 wrote:

Samiya is doing abit of Dawa, which is propagating his faih.  No problem with 
this, as long as we acknowledge it. Most here, seek to propagate atheism-which 
also, is considered tolerable by me. As to questions of creation, I would add 
Steinhart's 4 minute Youtube lecture on Conway's Life. Well worth watching 
indeed. Clarity, via math and computer science.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouipbDkwHWA


Now, if God emerged as a process of the universe or suceeding universes (Turok 
style), I personally, am still good with this, in the same sense that I am good 
with people being born. Even of God is an emergent process-mind, I would like 
for us to ask Him questions. Such as-
1. How did you come up with the idea for life?
2. What are we doing wrong, as a species, and can we do anything about it?
3. Do You need any help, assistance, from our specie?


I am also good with Dawkin's god-like entities that may inhabit the universe. 
If God exists, as a mind, I have long, thought, Dawkin's would be a great 
interiewer, as he's a logical guy. Dawkins, I mean. On God, Himself, I have 
also long-wondered if God could have emergenced as a Boltzmann Brain (I think 
Hugo hates this!), perhaps, THE Boltzmann Brain, after an infinitude of time + 
space. If this Wiki doesn' sound like PFM (an electronics teacher once said) 
'pure freak'in magic!," then I don't know what does?


Here is a Plus Math's article 2013.
https://plus.maths.org/content/dreaming-dream


If we want to get deeper in the weeds, on this, there is a paper out a few 
years ago, by 

Re: Cryonics punched cards and the brain

[John Clark]

On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 1:54 AM, Samiya Illias 
wrote:

​> ​
> Yes, I'm indeed grateful to God for being born to Muslim parents which did
> make it easier for me from my earliest years to experience Islam.
>

​
And
​Jewish children​

are
​
grateful to God for being born to
​ ​
Jewish
​
parents
​.​
​
And
​Hindu children
are
​
grateful to God for being born to
​ ​
Hindu
​
parents
​.​

​
And
​Catholic children
are
​
grateful to God for being born to
​ ​Catholic
​
parents
​.​

​
And
​Protestant children
are
​
grateful to God for being born to
​ ​Protestant
​
parents
​.​


And the one thing they all have in common is they're all grateful to God
that their parents just happened to members of the One True religion.

 John K Clark

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Re: Cryonics punched cards and the brain

[spudboy100 via Everything List]

John, smooth video using Mandelbrot sets plus Conway's life. Recursion and all 
that. I have no tiding of great joy to bring you. I could give you the 
Boltzmann Brain argument for God if you would like, but that is cold comfort, 
as well, but it seems plausible. There are a couple of guys who restarted 
Cosmism, as an explanation for how things are, and the suggestion, possibly, of 
a brighter future. Their ideas haven't been fleshed out yet with enough physics 
and astronomy and computer science, to be a really, usable, mental, scientific, 
app for both atheist's and religionists, alike. It's my hope and pursuit and 
its real possible I am pursuing fools gold with this, but let me say
that neurobiologically, I bet I am wired for doing this. In my case, a 
varmint's got to do what a varmints  got to do. This, if we can get our ducks 
all in a row, could be a big psychological, and later, a physiological fix, 
maybe?

Mitch
-Original Message-
From: John Clark 
To: everything-list 
Sent: Tue, Feb 2, 2016 1:43 pm
Subject: Re: Cryonics punched cards and the brain



On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 9:26 AM, spudboy100 via Everything List 
 wrote:





 ​> ​Most here, seek to propagate atheism


I don't want to promote atheism, I want to promote rationality. If somebody 
gave me a proof or even a hint that God may exist then I'd take the matter 
seriously, but nobody ever has. And even if there were a rock solid proof that 
God existed I'd still want to know why God gave a damn if I thought He existed 
or not. And I mean that literally, why would God damn me to torture for all 
eternity if I was unable to follow a logical proof? 
 
​> ​As to questions of creation, I would add Steinhart's 4 minute Youtube 
lecture on Conway's Life. Well worth watching indeed. Clarity, via math and 
computer science.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouipbDkwHWA



​Take a look at this, it's only 89 seconds long ​but it's the most mindblowing 
life video I've ever seen. And it has a surprise ending!  


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xP5-iIeKXE8 





​  John K Clark​








​  ​ 




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Re: Cryonics punched cards and the brain

[spudboy100 via Everything List]

John is it ok for someone to be happy for some child who is happy with their 
parents religion? I am happy that the kids are happy as happiness is a short 
commodity on old, planet earth. Do I care for Samiyas dawa? I am not offended 
by it, but yeah, it doesn't convince me. I am grateful and was grateful as a 
young child to see animator, Ray Harryhausen bring imaginary movie monsters to 
life, A fav part of my childhood.
 
-Original Message-
From: John Clark 
To: everything-list 
Sent: Tue, Feb 2, 2016 5:48 pm
Subject: Re: Cryonics punched cards and the brain



On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 1:54 AM, Samiya Illias  wrote:




​> ​Yes, I'm indeed grateful to God for being born to Muslim parents which did 
make it easier for me from my earliest years to experience Islam. 



​And ​Jewish children​ are​ grateful to God for being born to​ ​Jewish​ 
parents​.​
​And ​Hindu children are​ grateful to God for being born to​ ​Hindu​ parents​.​

​And ​Catholic children are​ grateful to God for being born to​ ​Catholic​ 
parents​.​

​And ​Protestant children are​ grateful to God for being born to​ ​Protestant​ 
parents​.​



And the one thing they all have in common is they're all grateful to God that 
their parents just happened to members of the One True religion.


 John K Clark


 


 


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Re: Cryonics punched cards and the brain

[John Clark]

On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 spudboy100 via Everything List <
everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote:

​> ​
> John is it ok for someone to be happy for some child who is happy with
> their parents religion?
>

​I'm a libertarian so I'm ok with anyone believing anything. And it's
pointless to debate what beliefs will make you happy because that depends
on the individual. But it's not pointless to debate what beliefs are true. ​

​I personally would prefer it if my beliefs were true but with others this
seems be be a minor consideration; there is no disputing matters of taste.

 John K Clark  ​




>
>

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Re: Cryonics punched cards and the brain

[spudboy100 via Everything List]

Samiya is doing abit of Dawa, which is propagating his faih.  No problem with 
this, as long as we acknowledge it. Most here, seek to propagate atheism-which 
also, is considered tolerable by me. As to questions of creation, I would add 
Steinhart's 4 minute Youtube lecture on Conway's Life. Well worth watching 
indeed. Clarity, via math and computer science.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouipbDkwHWA


Now, if God emerged as a process of the universe or suceeding universes (Turok 
style), I personally, am still good with this, in the same sense that I am good 
with people being born. Even of God is an emergent process-mind, I would like 
for us to ask Him questions. Such as-
1. How did you come up with the idea for life?
2. What are we doing wrong, as a species, and can we do anything about it?
3. Do You need any help, assistance, from our specie?


I am also good with Dawkin's god-like entities that may inhabit the universe. 
If God exists, as a mind, I have long, thought, Dawkin's would be a great 
interiewer, as he's a logical guy. Dawkins, I mean. On God, Himself, I have 
also long-wondered if God could have emergenced as a Boltzmann Brain (I think 
Hugo hates this!), perhaps, THE Boltzmann Brain, after an infinitude of time + 
space. If this Wiki doesn' sound like PFM (an electronics teacher once said) 
'pure freak'in magic!," then I don't know what does?


Here is a Plus Math's article 2013.
https://plus.maths.org/content/dreaming-dream


If we want to get deeper in the weeds, on this, there is a paper out a few 
years ago, by physicist Don Page that's a bit of fun "For God so loved the 
Multiverse.."



-Original Message-
From: Brent Meeker 
To: everything-list 
Sent: Tue, Feb 2, 2016 2:31 am
Subject: Re: Cryonics punched cards and the brain



On 2/1/2016 10:54 PM, Samiya Illias wrote:
> Yes, I'm indeed grateful to God for being born to Muslim parents which 
> did make it easier for me from my earliest years to experience Islam.

Experiencing it is one thing.  Believing it is another thing...a very 
sad thing that a child should have her head filled with tribal 
superstitions and her critical capacities stunted.

Perhaps contemplating the number of Nobel prizes awarded to Jews and 
atheists compared to Muslims will help.

Brent

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Re: Cryonics punched cards and the brain

[Samiya Illias]

Answers to your questions according to the Quran:
[Note: I'm pasting the literal translations of the verses; please follow
the link for multiple translations in proper English]

*1. How did you come up with the idea for life? *
[Quran 67:2] The One Who created death and life that He may test you, which
of you (is) best (in) deed. And He (is) the All-Mighty, the Oft-Forgiving.
http://islamawakened.com/quran/67/2/

*2. What are we doing wrong, as a species, and can we do anything about
it? *
[Quran 30:30] So set your face to the religion upright. Nature (made by)
Allah (upon) which He has created mankind [on it]. No change (should there
be) in the creation (of) Allah. That (is) the religion the correct, but
most men (do) not know.
http://islamawakened.com/quran/30/30/

*3. Do You need any help, assistance, from our specie? *
[Quran 57:25] Certainly We sent Our Messengers with clear proofs and We
sent down with them the Scripture and the Balance that may establish the
people justice. And We sent down [the] iron, wherein (is) power mighty and
benefits for the people, and so that Allah may make evident (he) who helps
Him and His Messengers, unseen. Indeed, Allah (is) All-Strong All-Mighty.
http://islamawakened.com/quran/57/25/

As for answer 2, I'm trying to comprehend the meaning of 'No change should
there be in the creation of Allah' from the narrations of the past
civilisations in the Quran. So far I've published six blogposts on the
topic:

Mission of the Messengers
Part I: World History & Future Implications

Part II: Satan's Enmity: Origin & Objective

Part III: Adam's Attempt to Improve upon Allah's Creation

Part IV: Balance & Guidance

Part V: Crime & Punishment

Part VI: Immortality & A Kingdom that Never Decays



Samiya

On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 7:26 PM, spudboy100 via Everything List <
everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> Samiya is doing abit of Dawa, which is propagating his faih.  No problem
> with this, as long as we acknowledge it. Most here, seek to propagate
> atheism-which also, is considered tolerable by me. As to questions of
> creation, I would add Steinhart's 4 minute Youtube lecture on Conway's
> Life. Well worth watching indeed. Clarity, via math and computer science.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouipbDkwHWA
>
> Now, if God emerged as a process of the universe or suceeding universes
> (Turok style), I personally, am still good with this, in the same sense
> that I am good with people being born. Even of God is an emergent
> process-mind, I would like for us to ask Him questions. Such as-
> 1. How did you come up with the idea for life?
> 2. What are we doing wrong, as a species, and can we do anything about it?
> 3. Do You need any help, assistance, from our specie?
>
> I am also good with Dawkin's god-like entities that may inhabit the
> universe. If God exists, as a mind, I have long, thought, Dawkin's would be
> a great interiewer, as he's a logical guy. Dawkins, I mean. On God,
> Himself, I have also long-wondered if God could have emergenced as a
> Boltzmann Brain (I think Hugo hates this!), perhaps, THE Boltzmann Brain,
> after an infinitude of time + space. If this Wiki doesn' sound like PFM (an
> electronics teacher once said) 'pure freak'in magic!," then I don't know
> what does?
>
> Here is a Plus Math's article 2013.
> https://plus.maths.org/content/dreaming-dream
>
> If we want to get deeper in the weeds, on this, there is a paper out a few
> years ago, by physicist Don Page that's a bit of fun "For God so loved the
> Multiverse.."
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Brent Meeker 
> To: everything-list 
> Sent: Tue, Feb 2, 2016 2:31 am
> Subject: Re: Cryonics punched cards and the brain
>
>
>
> On 2/1/2016 10:54 PM, Samiya Illias wrote:
> > Yes, I'm indeed grateful to God for being born to Muslim parents which
> > did make it easier for me from my earliest years to experience Islam.
>
> Experiencing it is one thing. Believing it is another thing...a very
> sad thing that a child should have her head filled with tribal
> superstitions and her critical capacities stunted.
>
> Perhaps contemplating the number of Nobel prizes awarded to Jews and
> atheists compared to Muslims will help.
>
> Brent
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Everything List" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send