Richard, I suppose it comes down to what you call a universe.
Would you say there is any difference that matters between a single universe that contains all possible experiences vs. Many universes which only in aggregate contain all possible universes? Jason ----- Reply message ----- From: "Richard Ruquist" <yann...@gmail.com> To: <everything-list@googlegroups.com> Subject: study of salvia reportage - brain region pointed to Date: Wed, May 28, 2014 2:39 PM Bruno, I do not like comp in the form that it predicts MWI, that is Everett's reality. My perspective is based on belief, indeed religious belief that the universe is singular and that somehow a single quantum state is selected in each interaction from the assortment that can be rigorously calculated ahead of time, perhaps using the Leibniz principle of the best of all possible worlds is selected. Since comp predicts consciousness and presumably a universal consciousness such a consciousness could make the selection but that is using god to fill a gap. Richard On Wed, May 28, 2014 at 2:43 PM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote: > > Nice post! > > Interesting, and indeed very reasonable with comp, in its expectable > natural realizations. I agree on points on salvia too, except that salvia's > reports witness extreme asymmetrical phenomena, which suggests some > disconnection between the left brain and the right brain. Of course it is a > very complex matter, but there are tools (some a bit toxic though, some > other not). > > Salvia action is believed to be very specific, and what makes salvia > attractive for such studies is that when smoked, the experience last for 4m > to 8m in the average, on sober people. You feel quite well after (unless > the goal was taking a superdose for making a funny video for youtube in > company of light and noisy sitters, that is using it contradicting the user > guide, or common sense when you know what the plant is capable of). > > No doubt we will come back on this. I have *many* theories on salvia in > the comp realm. Including possible different report predictions for > different people. > > Nice paper, but it still miss Everett's and comp's ways of differentiation > of consciousness. > > Comp is not just testable, it is improvable, but to play fair the game, > and keep the comp qualia/quanta distinction, the improvement should not > just be based with the experimental facts, but with the arithmetical > formulation of the measure problem. > > Consciousness is not located in the brain. It is a "quasi-arithmetical" > notion, like "arithmetical truth itself". Its differentiation will make it > seemingly related to special representations, but that might be transitory, > and the uniqueness of them is a delusion. > > You said you don't believe in comp, and I guess you meant that you believe > that comp is untrue, isn't it? What is your opinion on Everett? I think you > told us that you reject it? I am not sure. If you reject Everett it is > normal that you reject comp. (Note that Crick use comp in the paper, and > indeed it is common in that field, even Hameroff use comp (only Penrose > suggested a non-comp theory, where indeed gravitation collapse the wave in > a way non predictible by QM). > > Bruno > > > > > On 28 May 2014, at 17:23, ghib...@gmail.com wrote: > > > - they were more likely to believe they were in an environment > completely different from the physical space they were actually in -----> > sounds familiar > - they often believed to be interacting with "beings" such as > hallucinated dead people, aliens, fairies or mythical creatures ------> > machines > - the often reported "ego dissolution", a variety of experiences in > which the self ceased to exist in the user's subjective experience. ------> > 3p? > > > > Is the key to consciousness in the claustrum?by Klaus M. Stiefel, The > Conversation > [image: Is the key to consciousness in the claustrum?] > The location of the claustrum (blue) and the cingulate cortex (green), > another brain region likely to act as a global integrator. The person whose > brain is shown is looking to the right (see the inset in the top right > corner). Credit: Brain > …more<http://medicalxpress.com/news/2014-05-key-consciousness-claustrum.html> > > Consciousness is one of the most fascinating and elusive phenomena we > humans face. Every single one of us experiences it but it remains > surprisingly poorly understood. > > That said, psychology, neuroscience and philosophy are currently making > interesting progress in the comprehension of this phenomenon. > > The main player in this story is something called the > claustrum<http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/claustrum>. > The word originally described an enclosed space in medieval European > monasteries but in the mammalian brain it refers to a small sheet of > neurons just below the > cortex<http://biology.about.com/od/anatomy/p/cerebral-cortex.htm>, > and possibly derived from it in brain development. > > The cortex <http://medicalxpress.com/tags/cortex/> is the massive folded > layer on top of the brain mainly responsible for many higher brain > functions such as language, long-term planning and our advanced sensory > functions. > > Interestingly, the claustrum is strongly reciprocally connected to many > cortical > areas <http://medicalxpress.com/tags/cortical+areas/>. The visual > cortex<http://medicalxpress.com/tags/visual+cortex/> (the > region involved in seeing) sends axons (the connecting "wires" of the > nervous system) to the claustrum, and also receives axons from the > claustrum. > > The same is true for the auditory > cortex<http://medicalxpress.com/tags/auditory+cortex/> (involved > in hearing) and a number of other cortex areas. A wealth of information > converges in the claustrum and leaves it to re-enter the cortex. > > *The connection* > > Francis > Crick<http://www.nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/medicine/laureates/1962/crick-bio.html> > – > who together with James > Watson<http://www.nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/medicine/laureates/1962/watson-facts.html> > gave > us the structure of DNA – was interested in a connection between the > claustrum and consciousness <http://medicalxpress.com/tags/consciousness/> > . > > In a recent paper, published in Frontiers in Integrative > Neuroscience<http://journal.frontiersin.org/Journal/10.3389/fnint.2014.00020/abstract>, > we have built on the ideas he described in his very last scientific > publication <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1569501/>. > > Crick and co-author Christoph > Koch<http://www.alleninstitute.org/our-institute/our-team/profiles/christof-koch> > argued > that the claustrum could be a coordinator of cortical > function<http://www.klab.caltech.edu/news/crick-koch-05.pdf> and > hence a "conductor of consciousness". > > Such percepts as colour, form, sound, body position and social relations > are all represented in different parts of the cortex. How are they bound to > a unified experience of consciousness? Wouldn't a region exerting a (even > limited) central control over all these cortical areas be highly useful? > > This is what Crick and Koch suggested when they hypothesised the claustrum > to be a "conductor of consciousness". But how could this hypothesis about > the claustrum's role be tested? > > *Plant power alters the mind* > [image: Is the key to consciousness in the claustrum?] > Salvia divinorum (Herba de Maria). Credit: Wikipedia, CC BY > > Enter the plant *Salvia divinorum > <https://www.erowid.org/plants/salvia/salvia.shtml>*, a type of mint > native to Mexico. The Mazatecs civilisation's priests would chew its leaves > to get in touch with the gods. > > It's a powerful psychedelic, but not of the usual type. Substances such as > LSD <https://www.erowid.org/chemicals/lsd/lsd.shtml> > andpsylocibin<https://www.erowid.org/plants/mushrooms/mushrooms.shtml> (the > active compound in "magic" mushrooms) mainly act by binding to the > serotonin neuromodulator receptor proteins. > > It is not completely understood how these receptors bring about altered > states of consciousness, but a reduction of the inhibitory (negative > feedback) communication between neurons in the cortex likely plays a role. > > In contrast, *Salvia divinorum* acts on the kappa-opiate > receptors<http://www.guidetopharmacology.org/GRAC/ObjectDisplayForward?objectId=318>. > These are structurally related, but their activation has quite different > effects than the mu-opiate > receptors<http://www.guidetopharmacology.org/GRAC/ObjectDisplayForward?objectId=319>which > bind substances such as morphine or heroin. > > In contrast to the mu-opiate receptors, which are involved in the > processing of pain, the role of the kappa-opiate receptors is somewhat > poorly understood. > > Where are these kappa-opiate receptors located in the brain? You might > have guessed it, they are most densely concentrated in the claustrum (and > present at lower densities in a number of other brain regions such as the > frontal cortex and the amygdala). > > So, the activity of *Salvia* likely inhibits the claustrum via its > activation of the kappa-opiate receptors. Consuming *Salvia* might just > cause the inactivation of the claustrum necessary to test Crick and Koch's > hypothesis. > > *Any volunteers?* > > Did we administer this psychedelic to a group of volunteers to then record > their hallucinations and altered perceptions? Well, no. To get ethics > approval for such an experiment with a substance outlawed in Australia > would be near impossible. > > While *Salvia* is not known to be toxic or addictive, the current > societal climate is not very sympathetic towards psychoactive substances > other than alcohol. > > But fortunately we had an alternative. The website > Erowid.org<https://www.erowid.org/> hosts > a database of many thousand trip reports, submitted by psychedelic > enthusiasts, describing often in considerable detail what went on in their > minds when consuming a wide selection of substances. > > We analysed trip reports from this website written by folks who had > consumed *Salvia divinorum* and, for comparison, LSD. > > We found that subjects consuming *Salvia* were more likely to experience > a few select psychological effects: > > - they were more likely to believe they were in an environment > completely different from the physical space they were actually in > - they often believed to be interacting with "beings" such as > hallucinated dead people, aliens, fairies or mythical creatures > - the often reported "ego dissolution", a variety of experiences in > which the self ceased to exist in the user's subjective experience. > > … and this means? > > Altered surroundings, other beings and ego dissolution – this surely hints > at a disturbance of the "conductor of consciousness", as expected if the > conductor claustrum is perturbed by *Salvia divinorum*. > > If a region central to the integration of consciously represented > information is disturbed in its function, we would expect fundamental > disturbances in the conscious experience. The core of a person's > consciousness seems to be altered by *Salvia divinorum*, rather than > merely some distortions of vision or audition. > > We believe that the psychological effects of *Salvia divinorum*, together > with the massive concentration of the kappa-opiate receptors (the target > molecules of *Salvia divinorum*) in the claustrum support its role as a > central coordinator of consciousness. > > It's worth noting that our results were not black-and-white. The users of > LSD also experienced (albeit to a lesser degree) translation into altered > environments, fairies and ego dissolution. > > This, together with a review of the literature convinced us that the > claustrum is one of the conductors of consciousness, with brain areas > cingulate cortex and pulvinar likely being the other ones. > > Still, the claustrum appears to be special in the brain's connectivity and > we think that*Salvia* can inactivate it. We hope that the experimental > neuroscience community will take advantage of the window into the mind > which this unique substance provides. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. 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