Roger:
I rather think you can find many examples of causal, deterministic behavior
in biological context.
The behavior of ATP Synthase is a case in point.
You humble opinion is true that, just an opinion. Observed behavior and
good old fashioned
measurements strongly suggest you are wrong.
wrb
From: everything-list@googlegroups.com
[mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Roger Clough
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2012 5:40 AM
To: everything-list
Subject: Non-causal evolution and the innate intelligence of life.
Hi William R. Buckley
IMHO, stemming from the absence of self from materialistic philosophy,
the materialistic view of life is essentially causal, similar
to the billiard ball example.
This is nonsense. Life is not causal and is not deterministic
any more than Congress is causal. Life is more accurately
described as an infinite set of representative governments,
(monads), each with a local representative and a constitution
it is expected to obey. And plans and desires for the future.
So IMHO evolution is not random, it is self-guided and goal-directed.
Roger Clough, mailto:rclo...@verizon.net rclo...@verizon.net
8/31/2012
Leibniz would say, If there's no God, we'd have to invent him
so that everything could function.
- Receiving the following content -
From: William R. Buckley mailto:bill.buck...@gmail.com
Receiver: everything-list mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com
Time: 2012-08-30, 16:27:53
Subject: RE: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence
Bruno:
I rather take issue with the notion that the living cell is not controlled
by the genome. As biosemioticians (like Marcello Barbieri) teach us, there
are a number of codes used in biological context, and each has a governing
or controlling function within the corresponding context. The genome
is clearly at the top of this hierarchy, with Natural Selection and
mutational variation being higher-level controls on genome.
Readability I think is well understood in terms of interactions between
classes of molecules - ATP generation for one is rather well understood
these days.
Programmers (well experienced professionals) are especially sensitive to
context issues.
wrb
From: everything-list@googlegroups.com
[mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Bruno Marchal
Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2012 10:12 AM
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence
On 29 Aug 2012, at 20:09, Craig Weinberg wrote:
On Wednesday, August 29, 2012 1:22:38 PM UTC-4, William R. Buckley wrote:
Cells are indeed controlled by software (as represented in wetware form -
i.e. DNA).
It isn't really clear exactly what controls what in a living cell. I can say
that cars are controlled by traffic signals, clocks, and calendars.
To whatever we ascribe control, we only open up another level of unexplained
control beneath it. What makes DNA readable to a ribosome? What makes
anything readable to anything?
Encoding and decoding, or application and abstraction, or addition and
multiplication, ...
Sense is irreducible.
From the first person perspective. Yes. For machine's too.
No software can control anything, even itself, unless something has the
power to make sense of it as software and the power to execute that sense
within itself as causally efficacious motive.
This seems to me like justifying the persistence of the physical laws by
invoking God. It is too quick gap filling for me, and does not explain
anything, as relying on fuzzy vague use of words. I might find sense there,
but in the context of criticizing mechanism, I find that suspicious, to be
frank.
Bruno
http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/
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