Re: RE: Life: origin, purpose, and qualia spectrum
Hi Hal Ruhl Talk to Dawkins. The purpose of the gene is to create more genes. So the purpose of life (at a minimum) is to create more life. You may notice that earth was once lifeless but its surface become alive with plants, fishes and the other stuff from Genesis 1. Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net 11/9/2012 Forever is a long time, especially near the end. -Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: Hal Ruhl Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-11-08, 12:02:17 Subject: RE: Life: origin, purpose, and qualia spectrum Hi Stephen: -Original Message- From: everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Stephen P. King Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2012 6:56 PM To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Life: origin, purpose, and qualia spectrum On 11/7/2012 11:40 AM, Hal Ruhl wrote: Hi Stephen: pAP1 is #8 of the discussion initiating posts 8) Conclusion (2): Once life is present it will immediately punch as many holes in as many Energy Hang-up Barriers as the details of the particular life entity involved allows - this is how it realizes its energy flow conduit character. This is the purpose of life herein. In other words life's purpose is to hasten the heat death of its host universe. Hal Dear Hal, Is heat death truly real or a necessary concept? Well the term has been around for awhile but I have not seen a proposed end state or series of end states of the universe in which the ability to run a heat engine does not become zero or asymptotically approach it. Hal -Original Message- From: everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Stephen P. King Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2012 11:07 AM To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Life: origin, purpose, and qualia spectrum On 11/7/2012 9:38 AM, Hal Ruhl wrote: Hi Everyone: This may show up more than once as a few others did. In recent days I have had issues with my internet connection. It has been 16 hours since I sent this the second time. This time I tried sending it again and then again as plain text. Very sorry if my troubles cause some clutter. At this time I would like to go a bit further re item iii: iii) Species survival: Life on this planet is in the midst of an extinction event [not a new idea] that can't be stopped because pAP1 would be the only priority for life. We may not be extinguished as a species but we can't exclude ourselves from the extinction because of pAP1 [fixed typo]. There have been a number of extinction events. However, evolution has used some of these to produce new life entities with greater energy hang-up barrier busting ability than the extinguished ones - new life entities such as ourselves from the K-Pg event. iiia) Current Economic Conditions: The news in this area has been rather bad for some time. The most frequently offered solution has been that national economies and thus the world economy must grow real GDP. In fact grow it exponentially or even super exponentially. Since the planet has only a finite supply of energy - see prior posts under #2 for energy types - a new trick has to be learned. However, the offered solution is in compliance with pAP1. Thus if pAP1 is correct then no other solution [new trick] can be offered. In this case weep for the children. I hope someone can falsify pAP1 and anything near it. Hal Dear Hal, Could you restate pAP1? -- Onward! Stephen -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
Re: RE: Re: Life: origin, purpose, and qualia spectrum
Hi Hal Ruhl Sorry, I can not respond as you clipped off my previous post containing said metaphors. Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net 11/9/2012 Forever is a long time, especially near the end. -Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: Hal Ruhl Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-11-08, 12:13:48 Subject: RE: Re: Life: origin, purpose, and qualia spectrum Hi Roger: -Original Message- From: everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Roger Clough Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2012 6:09 AM To: everything-list Subject: Re: Re: Life: origin, purpose, and qualia spectrum Hi Hal, Just look at the metaphors you use to see that your idea below is wrong. You say that life hastens death. Of course it does - all day every day in . Animals are parasitic on photosynthesis and frequently each other as well as the energy hang-up barriers they must bust. Hal -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
RE: RE: Life: origin, purpose, and qualia spectrum
Hi Roger: Roger: Talk to Dawkins. The purpose of the gene is to create more genes. So the purpose of life (at a minimum) is to create more life. Response from Hal: No. Life creates more life in compliance with pAP1. A reasonable result is one heck of a mass extinction. Repeat until there are no more operative energy hang-up barriers. Roger: You may notice that earth was once lifeless but its surface become alive with plants, fishes... SNIP Response from Hal: You help make my point. Hal -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
Re: RE: RE: Life: origin, purpose, and qualia spectrum
Hi Hal Ruhl The most important feature of a theory is that it is worthless unless you can communicate it to the world. Maybe I'm wrong. I can't understand your theory, perhaps others can. Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net 11/9/2012 Forever is a long time, especially near the end. -Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: Hal Ruhl Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-11-09, 10:43:51 Subject: RE: RE: Life: origin, purpose, and qualia spectrum Hi Roger: Roger: Talk to Dawkins. The purpose of the gene is to create more genes. So the purpose of life (at a minimum) is to create more life. Response from Hal: No. Life creates more life in compliance with pAP1. A reasonable result is one heck of a mass extinction. Repeat until there are no more operative energy hang-up barriers. Roger: You may notice that earth was once lifeless but its surface become alive with plants, fishes... SNIP Response from Hal: You help make my point. Hal -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
RE: RE: Re: Life: origin, purpose, and qualia spectrum
Hi Roger: I try to practice reasonable bandwidth conservation. Your comment You say life hastens death. which is in my response seemed sufficient for the discussion. If you need something from one of your prior posts and you do not have it just cut and paste it from the Google archive. https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!forum/everything-list Hal -Original Message- From: everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Roger Clough Sent: Friday, November 09, 2012 8:42 AM To: everything-list Subject: Re: RE: Re: Life: origin, purpose, and qualia spectrum Hi Hal Ruhl Sorry, I can not respond as you clipped off my previous post containing said metaphors. Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net 11/9/2012 Forever is a long time, especially near the end. -Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: Hal Ruhl Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-11-08, 12:13:48 Subject: RE: Re: Life: origin, purpose, and qualia spectrum Hi Roger: -Original Message- From: everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Roger Clough Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2012 6:09 AM To: everything-list Subject: Re: Re: Life: origin, purpose, and qualia spectrum Hi Hal, Just look at the metaphors you use to see that your idea below is wrong. You say that life hastens death. Of course it does - all day every day in . Animals are parasitic on photosynthesis and frequently each other as well as the energy hang-up barriers they must bust. Hal -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
Re: Re: Life: origin, purpose, and qualia spectrum
Hi Hal, Just look at the metaphors you use to see that your idea below is wrong. You say that life hastens death. Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net 11/8/2012 Forever is a long time, especially near the end. -Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: Stephen P. King Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-11-07, 18:56:00 Subject: Re: Life: origin, purpose, and qualia spectrum On 11/7/2012 11:40 AM, Hal Ruhl wrote: Hi Stephen: pAP1 is #8 of the discussion initiating posts 8) Conclusion (2): Once life is present it will immediately punch as many holes in as many Energy Hang-up Barriers as the details of the particular life entity involved allows - this is how it realizes its energy flow conduit character. This is the purpose of life herein. In other words life's purpose is to hasten the heat death of its host universe. Hal Dear Hal, Is heat death truly real or a necessary concept? -Original Message- From: everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Stephen P. King Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2012 11:07 AM To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Life: origin, purpose, and qualia spectrum On 11/7/2012 9:38 AM, Hal Ruhl wrote: Hi Everyone: This may show up more than once as a few others did. In recent days I have had issues with my internet connection. It has been 16 hours since I sent this the second time. This time I tried sending it again and then again as plain text. Very sorry if my troubles cause some clutter. At this time I would like to go a bit further re item iii: iii) Species survival: Life on this planet is in the midst of an extinction event [not a new idea] that can't be stopped because pAP1 would be the only priority for life. We may not be extinguished as a species but we can't exclude ourselves from the extinction because of pAP1 [fixed typo]. There have been a number of extinction events. However, evolution has used some of these to produce new life entities with greater energy hang-up barrier busting ability than the extinguished ones - new life entities such as ourselves from the K-Pg event. iiia) Current Economic Conditions: The news in this area has been rather bad for some time. The most frequently offered solution has been that national economies and thus the world economy must grow real GDP. In fact grow it exponentially or even super exponentially. Since the planet has only a finite supply of energy - see prior posts under #2 for energy types - a new trick has to be learned. However, the offered solution is in compliance with pAP1. Thus if pAP1 is correct then no other solution [new trick] can be offered. In this case weep for the children. I hope someone can falsify pAP1 and anything near it. Hal Dear Hal, Could you restate pAP1? -- Onward! Stephen -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
RE: Re: Life: origin, purpose, and qualia spectrum
Hi Roger: -Original Message- From: everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Roger Clough Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2012 6:09 AM To: everything-list Subject: Re: Re: Life: origin, purpose, and qualia spectrum Hi Hal, Just look at the metaphors you use to see that your idea below is wrong. You say that life hastens death. Of course it does - all day every day in . Animals are parasitic on photosynthesis and frequently each other as well as the energy hang-up barriers they must bust. Hal -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
Re: RE: Life: origin, purpose, and qualia spectrum
Hi Hal Ruhl Information is a collection of facts or data. There must be a reason (a sufficient reason) for their being so. We do not know what that is, although scientists do construct theories to give us a sufficient reason or two. To do this, they use their intelligence, which is from the platonic realm. This does not provide certainty (since the theory may not be unique or be in error), but it is immensely useful. Nature itself does not need to construct theories, it is thought by some such as Leibniz, that the facts we see were created a priori according to a pre-established harmony. By the hand of God. Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net 11/3/2012 Forever is a long time, especially near the end. -Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: Hal Ruhl Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-11-02, 23:47:05 Subject: RE: Life: origin, purpose, and qualia spectrum Hi Stephen: I think this got lost so I sending it again. -Original Message- From: everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Stephen P. King Sent: Friday, November 02, 2012 6:37 PM To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Life: origin, purpose, and qualia spectrum On 11/2/2012 4:27 PM, Hal Ruhl wrote: Let me refer you to a very old paper of mine: http://webpages.charter.net/stephenk1/Outlaw/life.html I took a quick look. I may need some help understanding it fully. I occasionally play with the idea that Dark Energy is a spatially uniform leak of information from outside combined with a maximum information packing density in our universe. Hi Hal, Could it be that information is being created and forcing the physical universe to make room for its instantiation? After all, space is not a conserved quantity! I think that what you mention is at least part of the source of Dark Energy but I wonder if the members of the multiverse are completely isolated from each other. Hal -- Onward! Stephen -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
