Re: [Evolution] What happened to Evolution?
On Tue, 2010-12-21 at 12:31 -0800, Tory M Blue wrote: On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 12:19 PM, Adam Tauno Williams awill...@whitemice.org wrote: On Tue, 2010-12-21 at 21:04 +0100, Jean-Michel Pouré wrote: Le lundi 20 décembre 2010 à 09:14 -0500, Darren Govoni a écrit : 1) I now get frequent error storing folders, error generating message list 2) It's so slow. It is always Storing folder, taking almost minutes to complete. Its on average 5-8x slower downloading, storing and viewing messages. 3) Its very buggy. When new messages arrive, they no longer show up in the folder I'm viewing. You are not kidding, F12 Evolution 2.28.3 Time to upgrade then - maybe F14's evolution will give you a better experience? Pile of crud.. I use it because I need MAPI (or prefer it I guess). But I can't edit a distribution list without it crashing. It crashes a few times a day when loading in large qty of mail and I select to view or try to filter or something. Evo has worked fine on my Fedora 12 workstation in work for 12+ months. The odd crash (something I could probably count on both hands) has happened, but nothing major. I don't use MAPI, just standard IMAP to my University servers. Email from google, comes in with unknown encoding so I have to select view and select the encoding so I don't get the ?.. Exchange users send calendar events and evolution says this says it's a calender event but I don't believe it. Get an email with large amount of listed text (directory listing of files that have not changed) and I can't view it, evolution screen is gray. I have to have another unix user forward that mail to me (and I receive it fine). So maybe evolution is puuurfect but the mapi connector hates me, I don't know, but there are so many jokes around the office regarding my email client and how I can't forward simple html emails without it puking all over or that I can't edit distribution lists that I'm responsible for. Sorry but it's horrible in Fedora (standard yum builds) Tory G (A reasonably well satisfied Evolution user on Fedora 12-14.) -- %~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~% Dr. Gavin Simpson [t] +44 (0)20 7679 0522 ECRC, UCL Geography, [f] +44 (0)20 7679 0565 Pearson Building, [e] gavin.simpsonATNOSPAMucl.ac.uk Gower Street, London [w] http://www.ucl.ac.uk/~ucfagls/ UK. WC1E 6BT. [w] http://www.freshwaters.org.uk %~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~% ___ evolution-list mailing list evolution-list@gnome.org To change your list options or unsubscribe, visit ... http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/evolution-list
Re: [Evolution] Evolution displays appointments in menubar dropdown but not in Calendar
Elisabeth: To save a new contact in Evolution just enter data in the fields and pick 'save' or 'ok' or something like that (in spanish, my language, is 'aceptar'). Is not 'save current page'. Probably that's why your error happens. Regards Sylvia El 19/12/10 10:53, Hubert D Wagner escribi: Hello Mr Williams : I note your remarks. I believe the misunderstand arises because we use different terms for parts of the GUI. I have come to Ubuntu recently from Macintosh. The menubar is the stationary bar at the top of the screen which contains the Applications menu at left and certain icons as well as a dropdown menu at right, which shows the date. Clicking on that dropdown menu produces a month calendar and a list of appointments for the day, provided these have been entered into Evolution and Evolution is active. The 'save current page' icon I refer to is the left-most icon, in the row of icons at top-left of the Contact definition window. This comes up when one clicks on "New" in the Contacts window To restate the problem : When I enter the text of an appointment in the appointment definition window and click on the 'save current page' icon, the appoiintment text does not appear in the Calendar window. However, it does appear in the dropdown menu I refer to above, below the month calendar. And of course I cannot delete those appointments from the drop down menu because I cannot find them in the Calendar window. Is this clear enough? You remarked the version of Evolution delivered with 10.10 may be an older version, i.e. not current. I wonder would an update cure the problem? And if so, where might one obtain it? Regards : Elisabeth ___ evolution-list mailing list evolution-list@gnome.org To change your list options or unsubscribe, visit ... http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/evolution-list ___ evolution-list mailing list evolution-list@gnome.org To change your list options or unsubscribe, visit ... http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/evolution-list
Re: [Evolution] What happened to Evolution?
Oddly enough, what I'm seeing is that my Evolution on Fedora 13 and other disros was fine (relatively). As soon as I went to Fedora 14, it had noticeable problems. On Tue, 2010-12-21 at 12:31 -0800, Tory M Blue wrote: On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 12:19 PM, Adam Tauno Williams awill...@whitemice.org wrote: On Tue, 2010-12-21 at 21:04 +0100, Jean-Michel Pouré wrote: Le lundi 20 décembre 2010 à 09:14 -0500, Darren Govoni a écrit : 1) I now get frequent error storing folders, error generating message list 2) It's so slow. It is always Storing folder, taking almost minutes to complete. Its on average 5-8x slower downloading, storing and viewing messages. 3) Its very buggy. When new messages arrive, they no longer show up in the folder I'm viewing. You are not kidding, F12 Evolution 2.28.3 Time to upgrade then - maybe F14's evolution will give you a better experience? Pile of crud.. I use it because I need MAPI (or prefer it I guess). But I can't edit a distribution list without it crashing. It crashes a few times a day when loading in large qty of mail and I select to view or try to filter or something. Evo has worked fine on my Fedora 12 workstation in work for 12+ months. The odd crash (something I could probably count on both hands) has happened, but nothing major. I don't use MAPI, just standard IMAP to my University servers. Email from google, comes in with unknown encoding so I have to select view and select the encoding so I don't get the ?.. Exchange users send calendar events and evolution says this says it's a calender event but I don't believe it. Get an email with large amount of listed text (directory listing of files that have not changed) and I can't view it, evolution screen is gray. I have to have another unix user forward that mail to me (and I receive it fine). So maybe evolution is puuurfect but the mapi connector hates me, I don't know, but there are so many jokes around the office regarding my email client and how I can't forward simple html emails without it puking all over or that I can't edit distribution lists that I'm responsible for. Sorry but it's horrible in Fedora (standard yum builds) Tory G (A reasonably well satisfied Evolution user on Fedora 12-14.) -- %~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~% Dr. Gavin Simpson [t] +44 (0)20 7679 0522 ECRC, UCL Geography, [f] +44 (0)20 7679 0565 Pearson Building, [e] gavin.simpsonATNOSPAMucl.ac.uk Gower Street, London [w] http://www.ucl.ac.uk/~ucfagls/ UK. WC1E 6BT. [w] http://www.freshwaters.org.uk %~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~% ___ evolution-list mailing list evolution-list@gnome.org To change your list options or unsubscribe, visit ... http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/evolution-list ___ evolution-list mailing list evolution-list@gnome.org To change your list options or unsubscribe, visit ... http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/evolution-list
Re: [Evolution] What happened to Evolution?
Trying to expunge, I get this error. Error while Expunging folder 'Inbox'. Summary and folder mismatch, even after a sync On Tue, 2010-12-21 at 15:19 -0500, Adam Tauno Williams wrote: On Tue, 2010-12-21 at 21:04 +0100, Jean-Michel Pouré wrote: Le lundi 20 décembre 2010 à 09:14 -0500, Darren Govoni a écrit : 1) I now get frequent error storing folders, error generating message list 2) It's so slow. It is always Storing folder, taking almost minutes to complete. Its on average 5-8x slower downloading, storing and viewing messages. 3) Its very buggy. When new messages arrive, they no longer show up in the folder I'm viewing. I have to click another folder and click back to see them. 4) For the first time ever, it corrupted my email files and I had to recover from backup. I had these issues until I understood that the deleted messages are not deleted. They are simply hidden. Thus the mailboxes become huge and unusable. There is no automatic purge of deleted messages. This is a flaw in the design of Evolution. Automatically purging messages would be an error. [IMHO the correct solution is to *remove* the Hide-Deleted-Messages option]. You can't make everyone happy. Use the purge feature. I don't remember exactly where it is hidden. I think it is in Folder=Clean (or something like that). Folder / Expunge - or - Ctrl-E Yes you are right. Using PostgreSQL to store the messages would make more sense. That would make no sense for a local desktop application - to have to have a database instance to store [cache] mail? ___ evolution-list mailing list evolution-list@gnome.org To change your list options or unsubscribe, visit ... http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/evolution-list ___ evolution-list mailing list evolution-list@gnome.org To change your list options or unsubscribe, visit ... http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/evolution-list
Re: [Evolution] What happened to Evolution?
Am Dienstag, den 21.12.2010, 16:17 -0500 schrieb Darren Govoni: Trying to expunge, I get this error. Error while Expunging folder 'Inbox'. Summary and folder mismatch, even after a sync http://live.gnome.org/Evolution/FAQ#Why_do_I_get_an_error_.22Summary_and_folder_mismatch.2C_even_after_a_sync.22.3F andre -- mailto:ak...@gmx.net | failed http://blogs.gnome.org/aklapper ___ evolution-list mailing list evolution-list@gnome.org To change your list options or unsubscribe, visit ... http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/evolution-list
Re: [Evolution] What happened to Evolution?
On Wed, 2010-12-22 at 04:10 -0500, dar...@ontrenet.com wrote: Huh? Many people don't leave their messages on ISP servers because of quotas, Get a better ISP. so then they get downloaded to their local machine. Where you want fast, reliable access to them (e.g. searching, sorting, etc.) Unfortunately, without ACID principles, your local email will get corrupted. And most don't want that. Because database technology (embedded or otherwise), use things called 'transactions' it protects the data. If you brew your own 'local storage system' like Evolution, you have what we have now which is unreliable and slow. My turn to say Huh?. In what way has Evo brewed it's own storage system? It uses standard MBOX files on top of the native filesystem. That's about as standard as it gets. All the rest of the stuff that Evo uses (like the index files) are purely to try and speed up searching and accessing those files. There's no doubt that MBOX files can be fragile if you get impatient and interrupt a program's access to them while they are being written, especially if they are large - that's why Evo provides other file formats - based on standards - such as Maildir and MH. However, if you really feel that Evo would benefit from using some proprietary format backed database for mail, then I'm sure the devs would be more than happy to look at any code you submit. P. ___ evolution-list mailing list evolution-list@gnome.org To change your list options or unsubscribe, visit ... http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/evolution-list
Re: [Evolution] What happened to Evolution?
On Tue, 2010-12-21 at 15:27 -0500, Darren Govoni wrote: On Tue, 2010-12-21 at 15:19 -0500, Adam Tauno Williams wrote: On Tue, 2010-12-21 at 21:04 +0100, Jean-Michel Pouré wrote: Le lundi 20 décembre 2010 à 09:14 -0500, Darren Govoni a écrit : 1) I now get frequent error storing folders, error generating message list 2) It's so slow. It is always Storing folder, taking almost minutes to complete. Its on average 5-8x slower downloading, storing and viewing messages. 3) Its very buggy. When new messages arrive, they no longer show up in the folder I'm viewing. I have to click another folder and click back to see them. 4) For the first time ever, it corrupted my email files and I had to recover from backup. I had these issues until I understood that the deleted messages are not deleted. They are simply hidden. Thus the mailboxes become huge and unusable. There is no automatic purge of deleted messages. This is a flaw in the design of Evolution. That would make no sense for a local desktop application - to have to have a database instance to store [cache] mail? There are numerous embeddable SQL transactional databases that provide fast, reliable and ACID properties that would greatly improve the speed and durability of something important like email. Since its now clear that Evolution has scaling issues, I disagree. moving in this design direction should be a good thing. Have you tried them with large amounts of data, with BLOBs [which is essentially what an e-mail message is]? In my experience they fall down, *hard*. The meta-data databases in current versions uses SQLite [I believe]; the actual messages are stored in the filesystem [1] (which seems reasonable to me). I'd agree that anytime the meta-data database gets whacked it is a bug. [1] I don't recall how; if they are mbox [which might have a 2GB issue] or if they [the developers] switched to maildir or mh or something else. ___ evolution-list mailing list evolution-list@gnome.org To change your list options or unsubscribe, visit ... http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/evolution-list
Re: [Evolution] What happened to Evolution?
On Tue, 2010-12-21 at 16:17 -0500, Darren Govoni wrote: Trying to expunge, I get this error. Error while Expunging folder 'Inbox'. Summary and folder mismatch, even after a sync FAQ: http://live.gnome.org/Evolution/FAQ#Why_do_I_get_an_error_.22Summary_and_folder_mismatch.2C_even_after_a_sync.22.3F ___ evolution-list mailing list evolution-list@gnome.org To change your list options or unsubscribe, visit ... http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/evolution-list
Re: [Evolution] What happened to Evolution?
On Wed, 2010-12-22 at 13:19 +, Pete Biggs wrote: On Wed, 2010-12-22 at 04:10 -0500, dar...@ontrenet.com wrote: Huh? Many people don't leave their messages on ISP servers because of quotas, Get a better ISP. so then they get downloaded to their local machine. Where you want fast, reliable access to them (e.g. searching, sorting, etc.) Unfortunately, without ACID principles, your local email will get corrupted. And most don't want that. Because database technology (embedded or otherwise), use things called 'transactions' it protects the data. If you brew your own 'local storage system' like Evolution, you have what we have now which is unreliable and slow. My turn to say Huh?. In what way has Evo brewed it's own storage system? It uses standard MBOX files on top of the native filesystem. That's about as standard as it gets. I say - Heh?. ;) Because I come down on the other side; the app might be better off if they brewed their own storage format [like Cyrus IMAP did] and ditched the standard crap [my opinion of both mbox and maildir]. An application's data should be a sealed container and accessed only via an API / service All the rest of the stuff that Evo uses (like the index files) are purely to try and speed up searching and accessing those files. There's no doubt that MBOX files can be fragile if you get impatient and interrupt a program's access to them while they are being written, especially if they are large - that's why Evo provides other file formats - based on standards - such as Maildir and MH. However, if you really feel that Evo would benefit from using some proprietary format backed database for mail, then I'm sure the devs would be more than happy to look at any code you submit. ___ evolution-list mailing list evolution-list@gnome.org To change your list options or unsubscribe, visit ... http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/evolution-list
Re: [Evolution] What happened to Evolution?
Am Dienstag, den 21.12.2010, 15:27 -0500 schrieb Darren Govoni: There are numerous embeddable SQL transactional databases that provide fast, reliable and ACID properties that would greatly improve the speed and durability of something important like email. Since its now clear that Evolution has scaling issues, moving in this design direction should be a good thing. Your proof of concept implementation is welcome, and I am also wondering why it did not become a standard in the last 30 years of email if it's such a good thing. ;-) andre -- mailto:ak...@gmx.net | failed http://blogs.gnome.org/aklapper ___ evolution-list mailing list evolution-list@gnome.org To change your list options or unsubscribe, visit ... http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/evolution-list
Re: [Evolution] What happened to Evolution?
On Wed, 2010-12-22 at 08:01 -0500, dar...@ontrenet.com wrote: Oddly enough, what I'm seeing is that my Evolution on Fedora 13 and other disros was fine (relatively). As soon as I went to Fedora 14, it had noticeable problems. Evo changed the location of config info in F14, in line with Gnome's adoption of the Free Desktop guidelines. This can cause some distress as I know to my cost. I finally fixed it by deleting all the folders.db files and (IIRC) the usual summary and index files as well. poc PS Please don't top-post on this list. Top-posting on mailing lists (especially technical lists like this one) is widely frowned on and is liable to annoy people, some of whom are in a position to help you. ___ evolution-list mailing list evolution-list@gnome.org To change your list options or unsubscribe, visit ... http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/evolution-list
Re: [Evolution] What happened to Evolution?
On Wed, 2010-12-22 at 08:30 -0500, Adam Tauno Williams wrote: An application's data should be a sealed container and accessed only via an API / service Fine in theory as long as the API/service is foolproof. Getting at an mbox file with a text editor has saved my skin more than once (though I agree that it's a terrible format for mail). poc ___ evolution-list mailing list evolution-list@gnome.org To change your list options or unsubscribe, visit ... http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/evolution-list
Re: [Evolution] What happened to Evolution?
Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: On Wed, 2010-12-22 at 08:30 -0500, Adam Tauno Williams wrote: An application's data should be a sealed container and accessed only via an API / service Fine in theory as long as the API/service is foolproof. Getting at an mbox file with a text editor has saved my skin more than once (though I agree that it's a terrible format for mail). I agree almost completely with Patrick. I say almost because I had to retrieve some email from Eudora many, many years after using it. With messages in a standard, text format, it's very easy to recover mail when you no longer have the application that created the mail store. -- Sean ___ evolution-list mailing list evolution-list@gnome.org To change your list options or unsubscribe, visit ... http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/evolution-list
Re: [Evolution] What happened to Evolution?
I would design Evolution to use SQLlite or something like it. Firefox is going that direction in itself. It would buy you these lacking qualities now: 1) Data integrity 2) Fast retrieval, sorting 3) Ad hoc querying 4) Open format (can use any/many tools to manipulate) Just my $0.04 Darren On Wed, 2010-12-22 at 09:15 -0430, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: On Wed, 2010-12-22 at 08:30 -0500, Adam Tauno Williams wrote: An application's data should be a sealed container and accessed only via an API / service Fine in theory as long as the API/service is foolproof. Getting at an mbox file with a text editor has saved my skin more than once (though I agree that it's a terrible format for mail). poc ___ evolution-list mailing list evolution-list@gnome.org To change your list options or unsubscribe, visit ... http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/evolution-list ___ evolution-list mailing list evolution-list@gnome.org To change your list options or unsubscribe, visit ... http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/evolution-list
Re: [Evolution] What happened to Evolution?
On Wed, 2010-12-22 at 09:18 -0500, Darren Govoni wrote: I would design Evolution to use SQLlite It *does*! But it doesn't put the *messages* in SQLite; that would die horribly. or something like it. Firefox is going that direction in itself. It would buy you these lacking qualities now: 1) Data integrity 2) Fast retrieval, sorting 3) Ad hoc querying 4) Open format (can use any/many tools to manipulate) Point#4 is, IMO, rather bogus. The format may technically be Open but if you don't intimately understand the schema / data-model it (a) may not really be helpful to have access and (b) provide a nice avenue for users to trash their data and then blame the application [loudly, and in public, of course - with no mention of their thrashing about in the applications internals]. On Wed, 2010-12-22 at 09:15 -0430, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: On Wed, 2010-12-22 at 08:30 -0500, Adam Tauno Williams wrote: An application's data should be a sealed container and accessed only via an API / service Fine in theory as long as the API/service is foolproof. Getting at an mbox file with a text editor has saved my skin more than once (though I agree that it's a terrible format for mail). ___ evolution-list mailing list evolution-list@gnome.org To change your list options or unsubscribe, visit ... http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/evolution-list
Re: [Evolution] What happened to Evolution?
How do you mean it would 'die horribly'? After all, email servers store their messages in databases so they don't get corrupted. Also, point #4 isn't bogus. Its intended to attract developers to write more tools and plugins against the data format. Not really for users to hack their messages. On Wed, 2010-12-22 at 09:23 -0500, Adam Tauno Williams wrote: On Wed, 2010-12-22 at 09:18 -0500, Darren Govoni wrote: I would design Evolution to use SQLlite It *does*! But it doesn't put the *messages* in SQLite; that would die horribly. or something like it. Firefox is going that direction in itself. It would buy you these lacking qualities now: 1) Data integrity 2) Fast retrieval, sorting 3) Ad hoc querying 4) Open format (can use any/many tools to manipulate) Point#4 is, IMO, rather bogus. The format may technically be Open but if you don't intimately understand the schema / data-model it (a) may not really be helpful to have access and (b) provide a nice avenue for users to trash their data and then blame the application [loudly, and in public, of course - with no mention of their thrashing about in the applications internals]. On Wed, 2010-12-22 at 09:15 -0430, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: On Wed, 2010-12-22 at 08:30 -0500, Adam Tauno Williams wrote: An application's data should be a sealed container and accessed only via an API / service Fine in theory as long as the API/service is foolproof. Getting at an mbox file with a text editor has saved my skin more than once (though I agree that it's a terrible format for mail). ___ evolution-list mailing list evolution-list@gnome.org To change your list options or unsubscribe, visit ... http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/evolution-list ___ evolution-list mailing list evolution-list@gnome.org To change your list options or unsubscribe, visit ... http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/evolution-list
Re: [Evolution] What happened to Evolution?
On Wed, 2010-12-22 at 08:25 -0500, Adam Tauno Williams wrote: [1] I don't recall how; if they are mbox [which might have a 2GB issue] or if they [the developers] switched to maildir or mh or something else. FWIW, we fixed the 2 GB barrier in 2.32 and are switching from mbox to Maildir as the local storage format for 3.0. Further down the road we're looking at integrating notmuch [1] for better performance at indexing and searching. Matthew Barnes [1] http://notmuchmail.org/ ___ evolution-list mailing list evolution-list@gnome.org To change your list options or unsubscribe, visit ... http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/evolution-list
Re: [Evolution] What happened to Evolution?
On Wed, 2010-12-22 at 09:29 -0500, Darren Govoni wrote: How do you mean it would 'die horribly'? Exactly that. If you used SQLlite as a message store you'd have serious scaling issues. After all, email servers store their messages in databases so they don't get corrupted. Which ones? I'm not aware of any mail server other than Archaeopteryx that use an SQL database as a message store. [Exchange / Sharepoint use SQL-Server and Domino used DB2 - but sort of, they have deep hooks into that product]. And nobody use a database like SQLlite as a message store [I tried, used SQLite to store many serialized objects, it works quite badly for that purpose] Also, point #4 isn't bogus. Its intended to attract developers to write more tools and plugins against the data format. Not really for users to hack their messages. Disagree, a developer creating tools and plugins should use the applications API services not sneak into its data store. But at this point this is theoretical and off-topic. ___ evolution-list mailing list evolution-list@gnome.org To change your list options or unsubscribe, visit ... http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/evolution-list
Re: [Evolution] What happened to Evolution?
U, last I checked SQL Server IS a SQL database man. But back to the more important topic of how to improve Evolution Also, SQL database technologies are designed specifically for scalability so products don't brew their own and do it poorly. On 12/22/2010 10:23 AM, Adam Tauno Williams wrote: On Wed, 2010-12-22 at 09:29 -0500, Darren Govoni wrote: How do you mean it would 'die horribly'? Exactly that. If you used SQLlite as a message store you'd have serious scaling issues. After all, email servers store their messages in databases so they don't get corrupted. Which ones? I'm not aware of any mail server other than Archaeopteryx that use an SQL database as a message store. [Exchange / Sharepoint use SQL-Server and Domino used DB2 - but sort of, they have deep hooks into that product]. And nobody use a database like SQLlite as a message store [I tried, used SQLite to store many serialized objects, it works quite badly for that purpose] Also, point #4 isn't bogus. Its intended to attract developers to write more tools and plugins against the data format. Not really for users to hack their messages. Disagree, a developer creating tools and plugins should use the applications API services not sneak into its data store. But at this point this is theoretical and off-topic. ___ evolution-list mailing list evolution-list@gnome.org To change your list options or unsubscribe, visit ... http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/evolution-list ___ evolution-list mailing list evolution-list@gnome.org To change your list options or unsubscribe, visit ... http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/evolution-list
Re: [Evolution] What happened to Evolution?
On Wed, 2010-12-22 at 08:30 -0500, Adam Tauno Williams wrote: On Wed, 2010-12-22 at 13:19 +, Pete Biggs wrote: On Wed, 2010-12-22 at 04:10 -0500, dar...@ontrenet.com wrote: Huh? Many people don't leave their messages on ISP servers because of quotas, Get a better ISP. so then they get downloaded to their local machine. Where you want fast, reliable access to them (e.g. searching, sorting, etc.) Unfortunately, without ACID principles, your local email will get corrupted. And most don't want that. Because database technology (embedded or otherwise), use things called 'transactions' it protects the data. If you brew your own 'local storage system' like Evolution, you have what we have now which is unreliable and slow. My turn to say Huh?. In what way has Evo brewed it's own storage system? It uses standard MBOX files on top of the native filesystem. That's about as standard as it gets. I say - Heh?. ;) Because I come down on the other side; the app might be better off if they brewed their own storage format [like Cyrus IMAP did] Have you looked at what type of files are in a Cyrus folder ? They look like bog-standard mails to me, except attachments are split. Xav ___ evolution-list mailing list evolution-list@gnome.org To change your list options or unsubscribe, visit ... http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/evolution-list
Re: [Evolution] What happened to Evolution?
On Wed, 2010-12-22 at 08:30 -0500, Adam Tauno Williams wrote: On Wed, 2010-12-22 at 13:19 +, Pete Biggs wrote: On Wed, 2010-12-22 at 04:10 -0500, dar...@ontrenet.com wrote: Huh? Many people don't leave their messages on ISP servers because of quotas, Get a better ISP. so then they get downloaded to their local machine. Where you want fast, reliable access to them (e.g. searching, sorting, etc.) Unfortunately, without ACID principles, your local email will get corrupted. And most don't want that. Because database technology (embedded or otherwise), use things called 'transactions' it protects the data. If you brew your own 'local storage system' like Evolution, you have what we have now which is unreliable and slow. My turn to say Huh?. In what way has Evo brewed it's own storage system? It uses standard MBOX files on top of the native filesystem. That's about as standard as it gets. I say - Heh?. ;) Because I come down on the other side; the app might be better off if they brewed their own storage format [like Cyrus IMAP did] and ditched the standard crap [my opinion of both mbox and maildir]. An application's data should be a sealed container and accessed only via an API / service My opinion is: Evolution based its design on well excepted UNIX standards at the time (late nineties). Now, whether that standard is still relevant today may be debatable. I think an example of a brewed storage format is that of Outlook 's opaque mail information store. When a relative experiences a corrupted Outlook file, I just shrug my shoulders as there is little I can do. However with Evolution, because it uses standard message stores, I can use tools like mutt to fix my MBOX files and recover from various problems. I also have experienced more problems with Evo's sqllite's index files than I have ever experienced with the MBOX format. Thank goodness the sqllite database only stores information that can be re-constructed from the MBOX files. I am a database guy. I do a ton of Oracle, SQL Server, Postgres and Mysql work. However even I recognize a database is not a solution for everything. Cheers, Rob All the rest of the stuff that Evo uses (like the index files) are purely to try and speed up searching and accessing those files. There's no doubt that MBOX files can be fragile if you get impatient and interrupt a program's access to them while they are being written, especially if they are large - that's why Evo provides other file formats - based on standards - such as Maildir and MH. However, if you really feel that Evo would benefit from using some proprietary format backed database for mail, then I'm sure the devs would be more than happy to look at any code you submit. ___ evolution-list mailing list evolution-list@gnome.org To change your list options or unsubscribe, visit ... http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/evolution-list -- Rob Seward Bluestone Consulting Group, LLC web: http://www.bluestone-consulting.com/ e-mail: rsew...@bluestone-consulting.com ___ evolution-list mailing list evolution-list@gnome.org To change your list options or unsubscribe, visit ... http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/evolution-list
[Evolution] Alert when sending to unqualified addresses.
Just upgraded to 2.32.1 and so far everything is going well except that any message to to an unqualified address gets an alert: Are you sure you want to send a message with invalid address? The following recipient was not recognized as a valid mail address: Under Composer Preferences/General/Alerts there are a number of useful alerts that can be turned on or off but not this one. Is there a way to disable this alert. I can click on Send to have the mail delivered but I do this a lot and I'd rather not have the alert pop up every time. Another option, I guess, would be to set a default address to be added automatically to unqualified addresses but I can't see a way to configure that either. Thanks -- Ian ___ evolution-list mailing list evolution-list@gnome.org To change your list options or unsubscribe, visit ... http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/evolution-list
