Re: [ewg] RE: OFED libraries - on the web at last
Todd Rimmer wrote: Here is the change needed to mvapich as included in OFED 1.4.1 However end users will need some notice to rebuild their apps. Especially ISVs. I'm not sure what the OFED policy is for ABI changes, but at least 1-2 year notice seems the minimum (in QLogic's past efforts we try to maintain ABIs much longer than that as we still have some customers running 2-3 year old applications). Todd, We do not remove libibcommon in 1.4.1 So - if having this library is important for 1.5 can someone from Qlogic take care for it? Tziporet ___ ewg mailing list ewg@lists.openfabrics.org http://lists.openfabrics.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ewg
RE: [ewg] RE: OFED libraries - on the web at last
From: Sasha Khapyorsky [mailto:sashakv...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Sasha Khapyorsky Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 11:32 AM To: Todd Rimmer Cc: Tziporet Koren; ewg@lists.openfabrics.org Subject: Re: [ewg] RE: OFED libraries - on the web at last On 08:14 Wed 17 Jun , Todd Rimmer wrote: The issue isn't with the management tree. It's with the mvapich included in OFED 1.4.1 and previous versions. Then it should be fixed. [Todd Rimmer] Agreed, but customers will need a few releases of notice that they should recompile their apps. It links with libibcommon and as a result, Do you know why exactly was it linked (and how)? I searched over mvapich source and didn't find any references in sources and makefiles. It is only mentioned in spec files. So is there any issue really? [Todd Rimmer] Yes, the .spec file controls what libraries mvapich uses, that same list of libraries is then part of mpicc and mpif77 and used to link all applications built with mvapich. ALL end user and ISV apps linked with mvapich also link with libibcommon. This means that in moving to OFED 1.5 end users and ISVs would have to recompile all their apps. Such a change should not be taken lightly. Instead we should provide what is needed in OFED 1.5 such that existing app binaries will continue to work (might be as simple as stubbed library). Then we can issue notice to end users and ISVs that their apps will need to be rebuilt and allow them at least 1 release to accomplish that. AFAIR libibcommon removal was discussed on the list couple of times before, during and after OFED-1.4. [Todd Rimmer] Yes, but unfortunately it didn't come into practice in mvapich in OFED 1.4.1 or previous. ABI compatibility is an important requirement. In this case the ABI is that of applications built with mvapich. Is it ideal, NO. But we can't penalize customers. I suspect a dummy library would satisfy the mvapich need, but that would need to be confirmed (FYI, OFED 1.4.1 libibumad also references ibcommon). Sasha ___ ewg mailing list ewg@lists.openfabrics.org http://lists.openfabrics.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ewg
Re: [ewg] RE: OFED libraries - on the web at last
Hi Tziporet, On 13:03 Sun 14 Jun , Tziporet Koren wrote: I send this to Sasha who is the management maintainer Only he can decide if to bring libibcommon back to life I think the status of libibcommon as non-public library was discussed many times (as well as its removal). Personally I don't see any good reason to get it back. At least not in the management tree - management doesn't use it. Sasha ___ ewg mailing list ewg@lists.openfabrics.org http://lists.openfabrics.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ewg
Re: [ewg] RE: OFED libraries - on the web at last
Todd Rimmer wrote: I beg to differ. I downloaded OFED 1.4.1 and it includes mvapich-1.1.0-3355.src.rpm Looking in that rpm, the mvapich.spec file requires ibcommon and uses it. If I build any apps with that version of mvapich, the apps end up with ibcommon in their ldd dependencies. At a more generic level, the golden rule should be to not require end users (or ISVs) to rebuild their apps. In this case it will be necessary for OFED 1.5 to include a libibcommon file which meets whatever requirements mvapich had. I see the use of ibcommon in mvapich.spec is mentioned as a 2007 addition to work on SLES10. Not sure what APIs in libibcommon (if any) were needed. I send this to Sasha who is the management maintainer Only he can decide if to bring libibcommon back to life Tziporet ___ ewg mailing list ewg@lists.openfabrics.org http://lists.openfabrics.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ewg
Re: [ewg] RE: OFED libraries - on the web at last
Given the discussion and confusion about this file, perhaps that text file should be expanded and explained a bit more...? Two quick suggestions: - explain what is meant by public/private/private but used - it might be good to have at least one-liner summaries of what each library is/is for. For the uninitiated, that might be incredibly useful On Jun 11, 2009, at 2:15 AM, Tziporet Koren wrote: Todd Rimmer wrote: What does this category mean: Private but used by some apps: This means that although these libraries were designed as private some apps/libs used them. We found this when we did this list. The apps should be changed not to use these libraries but this is the situation in 1.4.x This is the reason we publish such a list - so new apps will use only public libraries and will not count on any private library I see that libibcommon is in this category, however I have observed that mvapich and mvapich2, link with this library. Which in turn means that all MPI user applications built with mvapich or mvapich2 also link with it. You are correct and this is actually old link. MPI will not use it in 1.5, since libibcommon was removed from the new management tree. Tziporet ___ ewg mailing list ewg@lists.openfabrics.org http://lists.openfabrics.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ewg -- Jeff Squyres Cisco Systems ___ ewg mailing list ewg@lists.openfabrics.org http://lists.openfabrics.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ewg
RE: [ewg] RE: OFED libraries - on the web at last
You are correct and this is actually old link. MPI will not use it in 1.5, since libibcommon was removed from the new management tree. I'm not sure what you mean by this statement. It's good that MPI in 1.5 will not use it. However, if we remove libibcommon from the library path in OFED 1.5 that would break existing applications. The fact that user apps have ended up being linked with it implies we must be very careful how we handle libibcommon. A case in point will be ISVs which have built against an older version of MPI and hence have this dependency in their application. Someone should see what routines in libibcommon (if any) MPI is using. A simple answer in OFED 1.5 might be to include a subset/dummy/empty libibcommon library to satisfy the application dependency. Todd Rimmer Chief Architect QLogic Network Systems Group Voice: 610-233-4852 Fax: 610-233-4777 todd.rim...@qlogic.com www.QLogic.com -Original Message- From: Tziporet Koren [mailto:tzipo...@dev.mellanox.co.il] Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 5:15 AM To: Todd Rimmer Cc: ewg@lists.openfabrics.org Subject: Re: [ewg] RE: OFED libraries - on the web at last Todd Rimmer wrote: What does this category mean: Private but used by some apps: This means that although these libraries were designed as private some apps/libs used them. We found this when we did this list. The apps should be changed not to use these libraries but this is the situation in 1.4.x This is the reason we publish such a list - so new apps will use only public libraries and will not count on any private library I see that libibcommon is in this category, however I have observed that mvapich and mvapich2, link with this library. Which in turn means that all MPI user applications built with mvapich or mvapich2 also link with it. You are correct and this is actually old link. MPI will not use it in 1.5, since libibcommon was removed from the new management tree. Tziporet ___ ewg mailing list ewg@lists.openfabrics.org http://lists.openfabrics.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ewg
Re: [ewg] RE: OFED libraries - on the web at last
Jeff Squyres wrote: Given the discussion and confusion about this file, perhaps that text file should be expanded and explained a bit more...? Two quick suggestions: - explain what is meant by public/private/private but used - it might be good to have at least one-liner summaries of what each library is/is for. For the uninitiated, that might be incredibly useful Good idea - I will do it Tziporet ___ ewg mailing list ewg@lists.openfabrics.org http://lists.openfabrics.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ewg
Re: [ewg] RE: OFED libraries - on the web at last
Todd Rimmer wrote: You are correct and this is actually old link. MPI will not use it in 1.5, since libibcommon was removed from the new management tree. I'm not sure what you mean by this statement. It's good that MPI in 1.5 will not use it. libibcommon was removed from the new management package that will be part of OFED 1.5 The link in MPI was old and actually MPI does not use this library any more for a long time Tziporet ___ ewg mailing list ewg@lists.openfabrics.org http://lists.openfabrics.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ewg
RE: [ewg] RE: OFED libraries - on the web at last
libibcommon was removed from the new management package that will be part of OFED 1.5 The link in MPI was old and actually MPI does not use this library any more for a long time I beg to differ. I downloaded OFED 1.4.1 and it includes mvapich-1.1.0-3355.src.rpm Looking in that rpm, the mvapich.spec file requires ibcommon and uses it. If I build any apps with that version of mvapich, the apps end up with ibcommon in their ldd dependencies. At a more generic level, the golden rule should be to not require end users (or ISVs) to rebuild their apps. In this case it will be necessary for OFED 1.5 to include a libibcommon file which meets whatever requirements mvapich had. I see the use of ibcommon in mvapich.spec is mentioned as a 2007 addition to work on SLES10. Not sure what APIs in libibcommon (if any) were needed. Todd Rimmer Chief Architect QLogic Network Systems Group Voice: 610-233-4852 Fax: 610-233-4777 todd.rim...@qlogic.com www.QLogic.com -Original Message- From: Tziporet Koren [mailto:tzipo...@dev.mellanox.co.il] Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 11:09 AM To: Todd Rimmer Cc: tzipo...@dev.mellanox.co.il; ewg@lists.openfabrics.org Subject: Re: [ewg] RE: OFED libraries - on the web at last Todd Rimmer wrote: You are correct and this is actually old link. MPI will not use it in 1.5, since libibcommon was removed from the new management tree. I'm not sure what you mean by this statement. It's good that MPI in 1.5 will not use it. libibcommon was removed from the new management package that will be part of OFED 1.5 The link in MPI was old and actually MPI does not use this library any more for a long time Tziporet ___ ewg mailing list ewg@lists.openfabrics.org http://lists.openfabrics.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ewg
