Re: [Factor-talk] Docs and other topics
Thanks! On Nov 13, 2010, at 4:34 AM, Slava Pestov wrote: > On Thu, Nov 11, 2010 at 3:09 AM, Balazs Toth wrote: >> - is Factor anywhere already used commercially? Is the making of the >> language financially efficient or only a side project currently for you >> Slava? About how reliable are the various features one can read about in the >> help? > > Factor development was funded for two years and I was working on it > full time for a bit longer than that, together with Doug, Joe, and Ed. > Nowadays I took up employment elsewhere and don't have much free time. > However the implementation is pretty reliable at this point. > > Slava > > -- > Centralized Desktop Delivery: Dell and VMware Reference Architecture > Simplifying enterprise desktop deployment and management using > Dell EqualLogic storage and VMware View: A highly scalable, end-to-end > client virtualization framework. Read more! > http://p.sf.net/sfu/dell-eql-dev2dev > ___ > Factor-talk mailing list > Factor-talk@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/factor-talk -- Centralized Desktop Delivery: Dell and VMware Reference Architecture Simplifying enterprise desktop deployment and management using Dell EqualLogic storage and VMware View: A highly scalable, end-to-end client virtualization framework. Read more! http://p.sf.net/sfu/dell-eql-dev2dev ___ Factor-talk mailing list Factor-talk@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/factor-talk
Re: [Factor-talk] Help Browser slow
Hi Jeff, We've seen this same exact crash on the build farm before, while running benchmarks. It is interesting that the help browser triggers it too. I'll try and play around with the help browser to see if I can trigger it. Do you think you can narrow down a more specific series of steps? Slava On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 10:40 AM, Jeff C. Britton wrote: > I get the following after using the Help browser for a while. > > You have triggered a bug in Factor. Please report. > error: 16 > arg 1: 44 > arg 2: f > Starting low level debugger... > Basic commands: > q -- continue executing Factor - NOT SAFE > im -- save image to fep.image > x -- exit Factor > Advanced commands: > d -- dump memory > u -- dump object at tagged > . -- print object at tagged > t -- toggle output trimming > s r -- dump data, retain stacks > .s .r .c -- print data, retain, call stacks > e -- dump environment > g -- dump generations > data -- data heap dump > words -- words dump > tuples -- tuples dump > refs -- find data heap references to object > push -- push object on data stack - NOT SAFE > code -- code heap dump > READY > > -Original Message- > From: Jeff C. Britton [mailto:j...@iteris.com] > Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2010 5:18 PM > To: factor-talk@lists.sourceforge.net > Subject: [Factor-talk] Help Browser slow > > On Windows XP the Browser that is opened upon clicking Help in the listener > is painfully slow. > > For example, I clicked on Vocabulary tags, and a couple of minutes went by > before the tags appeared. > I then clicked on collections and another couple of minutes went by before > the collections appeared. > > Is this normal? > > > > > -- > Centralized Desktop Delivery: Dell and VMware Reference Architecture > Simplifying enterprise desktop deployment and management using > Dell EqualLogic storage and VMware View: A highly scalable, end-to-end > client virtualization framework. Read more! > http://p.sf.net/sfu/dell-eql-dev2dev > ___ > Factor-talk mailing list > Factor-talk@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/factor-talk > > -- > Centralized Desktop Delivery: Dell and VMware Reference Architecture > Simplifying enterprise desktop deployment and management using > Dell EqualLogic storage and VMware View: A highly scalable, end-to-end > client virtualization framework. Read more! > http://p.sf.net/sfu/dell-eql-dev2dev > ___ > Factor-talk mailing list > Factor-talk@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/factor-talk > -- Centralized Desktop Delivery: Dell and VMware Reference Architecture Simplifying enterprise desktop deployment and management using Dell EqualLogic storage and VMware View: A highly scalable, end-to-end client virtualization framework. Read more! http://p.sf.net/sfu/dell-eql-dev2dev ___ Factor-talk mailing list Factor-talk@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/factor-talk
Re: [Factor-talk] Docs and other topics
On Thu, Nov 11, 2010 at 3:09 AM, Balazs Toth wrote: > - is Factor anywhere already used commercially? Is the making of the language > financially efficient or only a side project currently for you Slava? About > how reliable are the various features one can read about in the help? Factor development was funded for two years and I was working on it full time for a bit longer than that, together with Doug, Joe, and Ed. Nowadays I took up employment elsewhere and don't have much free time. However the implementation is pretty reliable at this point. Slava -- Centralized Desktop Delivery: Dell and VMware Reference Architecture Simplifying enterprise desktop deployment and management using Dell EqualLogic storage and VMware View: A highly scalable, end-to-end client virtualization framework. Read more! http://p.sf.net/sfu/dell-eql-dev2dev ___ Factor-talk mailing list Factor-talk@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/factor-talk
Re: [Factor-talk] Help opening a serial port
> I don't know what HOOK: does HOOK: defines words that dispatch on the type of a value of a variable. See the example here http://docs.factorcode.org/content/word-HOOK__colon__,syntax.html Here it is used to provide different implementations of a word depending on the OS you are using. The error says that there is no implementation of open-serial for windows. However, you can use socat. I only tested this on linux though. Socat will act as a repeater : it forwards any incomming packet from the serial port to a connected client and forwards any packet from the connected client to the serial port. Here's the command line I used: socat TCP-LISTEN:4161,forever,fork,reuseaddr /dev/ttyUSB0,raw,b57600 -- or any options you want to use.. Jon -- Centralized Desktop Delivery: Dell and VMware Reference Architecture Simplifying enterprise desktop deployment and management using Dell EqualLogic storage and VMware View: A highly scalable, end-to-end client virtualization framework. Read more! http://p.sf.net/sfu/dell-eql-dev2dev ___ Factor-talk mailing list Factor-talk@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/factor-talk
[Factor-talk] Help opening a serial port
I tried USE: io.serial serial new 38400 >>baud "COM1" >>path open-serial I get "Generic word open-serial does not define a method for the word class Dispatching on object: winnt" Looking at serial.factor I see HOOK: open-serial os ( serial -- serial' ) I don't know what HOOK: does -- Centralized Desktop Delivery: Dell and VMware Reference Architecture Simplifying enterprise desktop deployment and management using Dell EqualLogic storage and VMware View: A highly scalable, end-to-end client virtualization framework. Read more! http://p.sf.net/sfu/dell-eql-dev2dev ___ Factor-talk mailing list Factor-talk@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/factor-talk
Re: [Factor-talk] Help Browser slow
For what it's worth, I've not had the bug, but I usually browse over the internet docs. I like having multiple tabs open as I explore laterally. And, my mac doesn't seem to slow down using help, but my xp has for the last 8 months over multiple versions. On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 11:55 AM, Jeff C. Britton wrote: > It is slow after a fresh install. > > The browser appears to do some kind of caching, so going to some pages is > only slow the first time. > > Unfortunately, this caching seems to be lost upon restart. > > > > I get this occasionally > > You have triggered a bug in Factor. Please report. > > error: 16 > > arg 1: 44 > > arg 2: f > > Starting low level debugger... > > > > > > Most recently when pressing the Back button. > > > > --Jeff > > > -- > > *From:* Jim mack [mailto:j...@less2do.com] > *Sent:* Thursday, November 11, 2010 9:16 PM > > *To:* factor-talk@lists.sourceforge.net > *Subject:* Re: [Factor-talk] Help Browser slow > > > > I first noticed this on xp once I had loaded a few libraries, usually > furnace. Does the fresh exe seems reasonable? > > On Thu, Nov 11, 2010 at 5:17 PM, Jeff C. Britton wrote: > > On Windows XP the Browser that is opened upon clicking Help in the listener > is painfully slow. > > For example, I clicked on Vocabulary tags, and a couple of minutes went by > before the tags appeared. > I then clicked on collections and another couple of minutes went by before > the collections appeared. > > Is this normal? > > > > > > -- > Centralized Desktop Delivery: Dell and VMware Reference Architecture > Simplifying enterprise desktop deployment and management using > Dell EqualLogic storage and VMware View: A highly scalable, end-to-end > client virtualization framework. Read more! > http://p.sf.net/sfu/dell-eql-dev2dev > ___ > Factor-talk mailing list > Factor-talk@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/factor-talk > > > > > -- > Jim > "I'm for extending the working Medicare program for our seniors all the way > back to contraception, so Americans can concentrate on living their lives > without fear of changing a job, going bankrupt from deductibles or fighting > HMO bureaucracy." > > > -- > Centralized Desktop Delivery: Dell and VMware Reference Architecture > Simplifying enterprise desktop deployment and management using > Dell EqualLogic storage and VMware View: A highly scalable, end-to-end > client virtualization framework. Read more! > http://p.sf.net/sfu/dell-eql-dev2dev > ___ > Factor-talk mailing list > Factor-talk@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/factor-talk > > -- Jim "I'm for extending the working Medicare program for our seniors all the way back to contraception, so Americans can concentrate on living their lives without fear of changing a job, going bankrupt from deductibles or fighting HMO bureaucracy." -- Centralized Desktop Delivery: Dell and VMware Reference Architecture Simplifying enterprise desktop deployment and management using Dell EqualLogic storage and VMware View: A highly scalable, end-to-end client virtualization framework. Read more! http://p.sf.net/sfu/dell-eql-dev2dev___ Factor-talk mailing list Factor-talk@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/factor-talk
Re: [Factor-talk] Docs and other topics
While we're talking about what perfect looks like, I would have benefited more from actual examples. At some point we have to step up to the plate, and I've had that on my list as something I could contribute. But I'm having too much fun programming my new factor project! Make factor less interesting, and I'll have more time to help fix it. :) On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 10:49 AM, Balazs Toth wrote: > Hi Jeff, > > about ..a I have found a quite good explanation in this article: > http://factorcode.org/littledan/dls.pdf > > 2.1.3 Stack effects > > Cheers, > Balazs > > On Nov 12, 2010, at 7:36 PM, Jeff C. Britton wrote: > > > Adding to these suggestions, I find the language reference with respect > > to the syntax of stack effect comments a bit too terse. > > > > I don't understand what ..a represents. > > I have seen ( title/attributes -- ), and don't know if the / has > > meaning. > > I have seen ( seq -- seq') and don't know what the ' represents. > > > > --Jeff B. > > > > -Original Message- > > From: Shaping [mailto:shap...@charter.net] > > Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2010 11:01 PM > > To: factor-talk@lists.sourceforge.net > > Subject: Re: [Factor-talk] Docs and other topics > > > > Chris, I like your document, even though it is out of date. > > > > I think Balazs wants (as would I and others, I suspect) a nearly linear > > tutorial-like instruction, including: setting up the Git repository; > > checking out the clean branch; building Factor from that branch; running > > Factor; setting up your Emacs editor (pick the best editor and use it to > > show off the color and formatting; Factor looks like hell in black and > > white); some simple instruction on tweaking font styles and sizes in the > > Listener, Browser, and your Emacs editor; Slava's palindrome tutorial; > > his > > little GUI-with-button-that-beeps tutorial; his TCP time-server tutorial > > (and more). Describe how to use the most often used features, the ones > > you > > must know to be fluent and effective, like hitting F2 in the Listener > > after > > saving code in your editor, to pull in and compile all changed > > source-code > > files, or using Ctrl-n and Ctrl-p for easily recalling and looping > > through > > all of your previously entered expressions, and so on. You, the fluent > > ones, can add some much more good stuff to this basic path of > > instruction, > > which should be a narrow tree with a clear path toward fluency with the > > environ and minimal competency with the language, with a few branches > > off to > > side-topics, with appropriate links into the Browser help system, for > > deeper, optional study. You don't want to overload the new guy with the > > massive hypertree of Factor knowledge. It's too much, but will be > > become > > very approachable once a practical foundation is laid with a few basic > > programming exercises and practical advice on how to use the tools (Git, > > Listener, Browser, Emacs). > > > > > > Shaping > > > > -Original Message- > > From: Chris Double [mailto:chris.dou...@double.co.nz] > > Sent: 2010-November-11, 05:24 > > To: factor-talk@lists.sourceforge.net > > Subject: Re: [Factor-talk] Docs and other topics > > > > On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 12:09 AM, Balazs Toth > > wrote: > >> - is there some accumulated, readable documentation of Factor > > somewhere? > > Or at least a cheat sheet about the various features of the language? > > The > > help system is really nice and sufficient as it is if someone already > > knows > > what he is looking for. > > > > The built-in help, http://docs.factorcode.org and various blogs posts > > are what is available. > > > >> - in another thread you are talking about the UI and the adaptation of > > the > > system by someones supervisor. I would like to adapt the language as a > > supervisor, but cannot do that because of its unreal learning curve and > > lack > > of a handbook. > > > > The learning curve is not really 'unreal'. I learnt it back when it > > had no documentation at all! That aside a printable readable document > > would be nice. No one has stepped up to write one yet. There used to > > be a 'Factor Handbook' PDF and maybe something like that would still > > be useful. Here's the last version I generated from the latex source: > > > > http://www.bluishcoder.co.nz/handbook.pdf > > > > (Note that it's way out of date. I just present it to show the type of > > thing that might be useful). > > > >> About how reliable are the various features one can read about in the > > help? > > > > I'm not sure what you mean by this. > > > > Chris. > > -- > > http://www.bluishcoder.co.nz > > > > > > > > -- > > Centralized Desktop Delivery: Dell and VMware Reference Architecture > > Simplifying enterprise desktop deployment and management using > > Dell EqualLogic storage and VMware View: A highly scalable, end-to-end > > client virtualization framework. Read mo
Re: [Factor-talk] Help Browser slow
It is slow after a fresh install. The browser appears to do some kind of caching, so going to some pages is only slow the first time. Unfortunately, this caching seems to be lost upon restart. I get this occasionally You have triggered a bug in Factor. Please report. error: 16 arg 1: 44 arg 2: f Starting low level debugger... Most recently when pressing the Back button. --Jeff From: Jim mack [mailto:j...@less2do.com] Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2010 9:16 PM To: factor-talk@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Factor-talk] Help Browser slow I first noticed this on xp once I had loaded a few libraries, usually furnace. Does the fresh exe seems reasonable? On Thu, Nov 11, 2010 at 5:17 PM, Jeff C. Britton wrote: On Windows XP the Browser that is opened upon clicking Help in the listener is painfully slow. For example, I clicked on Vocabulary tags, and a couple of minutes went by before the tags appeared. I then clicked on collections and another couple of minutes went by before the collections appeared. Is this normal? -- Centralized Desktop Delivery: Dell and VMware Reference Architecture Simplifying enterprise desktop deployment and management using Dell EqualLogic storage and VMware View: A highly scalable, end-to-end client virtualization framework. Read more! http://p.sf.net/sfu/dell-eql-dev2dev ___ Factor-talk mailing list Factor-talk@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/factor-talk -- Jim "I'm for extending the working Medicare program for our seniors all the way back to contraception, so Americans can concentrate on living their lives without fear of changing a job, going bankrupt from deductibles or fighting HMO bureaucracy." -- Centralized Desktop Delivery: Dell and VMware Reference Architecture Simplifying enterprise desktop deployment and management using Dell EqualLogic storage and VMware View: A highly scalable, end-to-end client virtualization framework. Read more! http://p.sf.net/sfu/dell-eql-dev2dev___ Factor-talk mailing list Factor-talk@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/factor-talk
Re: [Factor-talk] Docs and other topics
Hi Jeff, about ..a I have found a quite good explanation in this article: http://factorcode.org/littledan/dls.pdf 2.1.3 Stack effects Cheers, Balazs On Nov 12, 2010, at 7:36 PM, Jeff C. Britton wrote: > Adding to these suggestions, I find the language reference with respect > to the syntax of stack effect comments a bit too terse. > > I don't understand what ..a represents. > I have seen ( title/attributes -- ), and don't know if the / has > meaning. > I have seen ( seq -- seq') and don't know what the ' represents. > > --Jeff B. > > -Original Message- > From: Shaping [mailto:shap...@charter.net] > Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2010 11:01 PM > To: factor-talk@lists.sourceforge.net > Subject: Re: [Factor-talk] Docs and other topics > > Chris, I like your document, even though it is out of date. > > I think Balazs wants (as would I and others, I suspect) a nearly linear > tutorial-like instruction, including: setting up the Git repository; > checking out the clean branch; building Factor from that branch; running > Factor; setting up your Emacs editor (pick the best editor and use it to > show off the color and formatting; Factor looks like hell in black and > white); some simple instruction on tweaking font styles and sizes in the > Listener, Browser, and your Emacs editor; Slava's palindrome tutorial; > his > little GUI-with-button-that-beeps tutorial; his TCP time-server tutorial > (and more). Describe how to use the most often used features, the ones > you > must know to be fluent and effective, like hitting F2 in the Listener > after > saving code in your editor, to pull in and compile all changed > source-code > files, or using Ctrl-n and Ctrl-p for easily recalling and looping > through > all of your previously entered expressions, and so on. You, the fluent > ones, can add some much more good stuff to this basic path of > instruction, > which should be a narrow tree with a clear path toward fluency with the > environ and minimal competency with the language, with a few branches > off to > side-topics, with appropriate links into the Browser help system, for > deeper, optional study. You don't want to overload the new guy with the > massive hypertree of Factor knowledge. It's too much, but will be > become > very approachable once a practical foundation is laid with a few basic > programming exercises and practical advice on how to use the tools (Git, > Listener, Browser, Emacs). > > > Shaping > > -Original Message- > From: Chris Double [mailto:chris.dou...@double.co.nz] > Sent: 2010-November-11, 05:24 > To: factor-talk@lists.sourceforge.net > Subject: Re: [Factor-talk] Docs and other topics > > On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 12:09 AM, Balazs Toth > wrote: >> - is there some accumulated, readable documentation of Factor > somewhere? > Or at least a cheat sheet about the various features of the language? > The > help system is really nice and sufficient as it is if someone already > knows > what he is looking for. > > The built-in help, http://docs.factorcode.org and various blogs posts > are what is available. > >> - in another thread you are talking about the UI and the adaptation of > the > system by someones supervisor. I would like to adapt the language as a > supervisor, but cannot do that because of its unreal learning curve and > lack > of a handbook. > > The learning curve is not really 'unreal'. I learnt it back when it > had no documentation at all! That aside a printable readable document > would be nice. No one has stepped up to write one yet. There used to > be a 'Factor Handbook' PDF and maybe something like that would still > be useful. Here's the last version I generated from the latex source: > > http://www.bluishcoder.co.nz/handbook.pdf > > (Note that it's way out of date. I just present it to show the type of > thing that might be useful). > >> About how reliable are the various features one can read about in the > help? > > I'm not sure what you mean by this. > > Chris. > -- > http://www.bluishcoder.co.nz > > > > -- > Centralized Desktop Delivery: Dell and VMware Reference Architecture > Simplifying enterprise desktop deployment and management using > Dell EqualLogic storage and VMware View: A highly scalable, end-to-end > client virtualization framework. Read more! > http://p.sf.net/sfu/dell-eql-dev2dev > ___ > Factor-talk mailing list > Factor-talk@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/factor-talk > > > > -- > Centralized Desktop Delivery: Dell and VMware Reference Architecture > Simplifying enterprise desktop deployment and management using > Dell EqualLogic storage and VMware View: A highly scalable, end-to-end > client virtualization framework. Read more! > http://p.sf.net/sfu/dell-eql-dev2dev >
Re: [Factor-talk] Help Browser slow
I get the following after using the Help browser for a while. You have triggered a bug in Factor. Please report. error: 16 arg 1: 44 arg 2: f Starting low level debugger... Basic commands: q-- continue executing Factor - NOT SAFE im -- save image to fep.image x-- exit Factor Advanced commands: d -- dump memory u -- dump object at tagged . -- print object at tagged t-- toggle output trimming s r -- dump data, retain stacks .s .r .c -- print data, retain, call stacks e-- dump environment g-- dump generations data -- data heap dump words-- words dump tuples -- tuples dump refs -- find data heap references to object push -- push object on data stack - NOT SAFE code -- code heap dump READY -Original Message- From: Jeff C. Britton [mailto:j...@iteris.com] Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2010 5:18 PM To: factor-talk@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: [Factor-talk] Help Browser slow On Windows XP the Browser that is opened upon clicking Help in the listener is painfully slow. For example, I clicked on Vocabulary tags, and a couple of minutes went by before the tags appeared. I then clicked on collections and another couple of minutes went by before the collections appeared. Is this normal? -- Centralized Desktop Delivery: Dell and VMware Reference Architecture Simplifying enterprise desktop deployment and management using Dell EqualLogic storage and VMware View: A highly scalable, end-to-end client virtualization framework. Read more! http://p.sf.net/sfu/dell-eql-dev2dev ___ Factor-talk mailing list Factor-talk@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/factor-talk -- Centralized Desktop Delivery: Dell and VMware Reference Architecture Simplifying enterprise desktop deployment and management using Dell EqualLogic storage and VMware View: A highly scalable, end-to-end client virtualization framework. Read more! http://p.sf.net/sfu/dell-eql-dev2dev ___ Factor-talk mailing list Factor-talk@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/factor-talk
Re: [Factor-talk] Docs and other topics
Adding to these suggestions, I find the language reference with respect to the syntax of stack effect comments a bit too terse. I don't understand what ..a represents. I have seen ( title/attributes -- ), and don't know if the / has meaning. I have seen ( seq -- seq') and don't know what the ' represents. --Jeff B. -Original Message- From: Shaping [mailto:shap...@charter.net] Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2010 11:01 PM To: factor-talk@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Factor-talk] Docs and other topics Chris, I like your document, even though it is out of date. I think Balazs wants (as would I and others, I suspect) a nearly linear tutorial-like instruction, including: setting up the Git repository; checking out the clean branch; building Factor from that branch; running Factor; setting up your Emacs editor (pick the best editor and use it to show off the color and formatting; Factor looks like hell in black and white); some simple instruction on tweaking font styles and sizes in the Listener, Browser, and your Emacs editor; Slava's palindrome tutorial; his little GUI-with-button-that-beeps tutorial; his TCP time-server tutorial (and more). Describe how to use the most often used features, the ones you must know to be fluent and effective, like hitting F2 in the Listener after saving code in your editor, to pull in and compile all changed source-code files, or using Ctrl-n and Ctrl-p for easily recalling and looping through all of your previously entered expressions, and so on. You, the fluent ones, can add some much more good stuff to this basic path of instruction, which should be a narrow tree with a clear path toward fluency with the environ and minimal competency with the language, with a few branches off to side-topics, with appropriate links into the Browser help system, for deeper, optional study. You don't want to overload the new guy with the massive hypertree of Factor knowledge. It's too much, but will be become very approachable once a practical foundation is laid with a few basic programming exercises and practical advice on how to use the tools (Git, Listener, Browser, Emacs). Shaping -Original Message- From: Chris Double [mailto:chris.dou...@double.co.nz] Sent: 2010-November-11, 05:24 To: factor-talk@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Factor-talk] Docs and other topics On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 12:09 AM, Balazs Toth wrote: > - is there some accumulated, readable documentation of Factor somewhere? Or at least a cheat sheet about the various features of the language? The help system is really nice and sufficient as it is if someone already knows what he is looking for. The built-in help, http://docs.factorcode.org and various blogs posts are what is available. > - in another thread you are talking about the UI and the adaptation of the system by someones supervisor. I would like to adapt the language as a supervisor, but cannot do that because of its unreal learning curve and lack of a handbook. The learning curve is not really 'unreal'. I learnt it back when it had no documentation at all! That aside a printable readable document would be nice. No one has stepped up to write one yet. There used to be a 'Factor Handbook' PDF and maybe something like that would still be useful. Here's the last version I generated from the latex source: http://www.bluishcoder.co.nz/handbook.pdf (Note that it's way out of date. I just present it to show the type of thing that might be useful). > About how reliable are the various features one can read about in the help? I'm not sure what you mean by this. Chris. -- http://www.bluishcoder.co.nz -- Centralized Desktop Delivery: Dell and VMware Reference Architecture Simplifying enterprise desktop deployment and management using Dell EqualLogic storage and VMware View: A highly scalable, end-to-end client virtualization framework. Read more! http://p.sf.net/sfu/dell-eql-dev2dev ___ Factor-talk mailing list Factor-talk@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/factor-talk -- Centralized Desktop Delivery: Dell and VMware Reference Architecture Simplifying enterprise desktop deployment and management using Dell EqualLogic storage and VMware View: A highly scalable, end-to-end client virtualization framework. Read more! http://p.sf.net/sfu/dell-eql-dev2dev ___ Factor-talk mailing list Factor-talk@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/factor-talk -- Centralized Desktop Delivery: Dell and VMware Reference Architecture Simplifying enterprise desktop deployment and management using Dell EqualLogic storage and VMware View: A highly scalable, end-to-end clien
Re: [Factor-talk] Factor GUI
Thank you. On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 9:15 AM, Jon Harper wrote: > > I never have understood the exact difference between dispatcher and > > responder, but somehow still can get things working. > > A responder is any tuple that implements the call-responder* generic word. > A dispatcher is a responder. Its call-responder* implementation is to > dispatch the request to its responders. > > Jon > > > -- > Centralized Desktop Delivery: Dell and VMware Reference Architecture > Simplifying enterprise desktop deployment and management using > Dell EqualLogic storage and VMware View: A highly scalable, end-to-end > client virtualization framework. Read more! > http://p.sf.net/sfu/dell-eql-dev2dev > ___ > Factor-talk mailing list > Factor-talk@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/factor-talk > -- Jim "I'm for extending the working Medicare program for our seniors all the way back to contraception, so Americans can concentrate on living their lives without fear of changing a job, going bankrupt from deductibles or fighting HMO bureaucracy." -- Centralized Desktop Delivery: Dell and VMware Reference Architecture Simplifying enterprise desktop deployment and management using Dell EqualLogic storage and VMware View: A highly scalable, end-to-end client virtualization framework. Read more! http://p.sf.net/sfu/dell-eql-dev2dev___ Factor-talk mailing list Factor-talk@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/factor-talk
Re: [Factor-talk] Docs and other topics
The handbook seems indeed like what I need. I'll probably create an updated version of it from sections of the help. -- Centralized Desktop Delivery: Dell and VMware Reference Architecture Simplifying enterprise desktop deployment and management using Dell EqualLogic storage and VMware View: A highly scalable, end-to-end client virtualization framework. Read more! http://p.sf.net/sfu/dell-eql-dev2dev ___ Factor-talk mailing list Factor-talk@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/factor-talk
Re: [Factor-talk] Factor GUI
> I never have understood the exact difference between dispatcher and > responder, but somehow still can get things working. A responder is any tuple that implements the call-responder* generic word. A dispatcher is a responder. Its call-responder* implementation is to dispatch the request to its responders. Jon -- Centralized Desktop Delivery: Dell and VMware Reference Architecture Simplifying enterprise desktop deployment and management using Dell EqualLogic storage and VMware View: A highly scalable, end-to-end client virtualization framework. Read more! http://p.sf.net/sfu/dell-eql-dev2dev ___ Factor-talk mailing list Factor-talk@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/factor-talk
Re: [Factor-talk] Factor GUI
Well, when you're doing development, any web page is an example as you're running locally. The jump would be to compile it as a stand-alone. I was impressed how easily we have an http server. Compare that to configuring IIS to run ASP pages, and I want to barf. (Yes, I know that's not apples to apples, but often I just want the core of the apple!) If you want to follow the path of least resistance, try getting the calculator running then modify from there. Next, compare to the blog webapp and try to run it from the same 'run-calculator' type word. Blogs should teach you enough about chloe to decide if you like it or not. Using fhtml templates is like php development. Play with it: : fhtml-file ( fname -- str ) [ call-template ] with-string-writer ; I never have understood the exact difference between dispatcher and responder, but somehow still can get things working. You'll probably need to know about db-tuples, although you can do quite a bit keeping objects in memory. Although the web page is stateless, global variables in factor are available because there's only one instance running all requests. You can also temporarily violate best practices and save whatever you want in the session, then come back later and make it more able to run from anywhere if you need. On Thu, Nov 11, 2010 at 11:11 PM, Shaping wrote: > What is currently the best example/demo involving a locally running > web-server serving HTML pages? I need to get more deeply into HTML 5 and > CSS 3, anyway. > > > > > > Shaping > > > > *From:* Jim mack [mailto:j...@less2do.com] > *Sent:* 2010-November-11, 13:29 > *To:* factor-talk@lists.sourceforge.net > *Subject:* Re: [Factor-talk] Factor GUI > > > > Don't ignore the possibility of deploying as a local http server and having > a local webapp. The server would be on the box, so it could do things > locally, call COM, access clipboard. It's how I'm trying to do things, and > works cross-platform, and is only limited by your html/css skills. > > On Thu, Nov 11, 2010 at 1:35 AM, Shaping wrote: > > > I would still like to convince my sup that Factor is the way to go, and > > > he'll want the latest and greatest Windows 7 GUI, eventually. So my next > > > question is: Has anyone undertaken the task of making a more up-to-date > > > looking set of widgets for Factor to use when creating GUI apps, even if > > > those widgets/gadgets will not be used in the dev-environ itself? > > > > The widget styles for the Factor UI itself are just images, stored in > > basis/ui/gadgets/theme. Reskinning is a simple matter of replacing > > those images. But for end-user applications, you don't necessarily > > have to stick with the Factor UI's widgets. Since you're only > > targeting Windows, you can use the native Win32 APIs, or some other UI > > toolkit library. > > > > Yes, I was referring to the Win32 APIs. Is anyone working on this now? > > > > This is not the best strategy, anyway, if a broad deployment is the > objective. The current Factor style reminds me of the Motif style. > > > > > > Shaping > > > > -- > Centralized Desktop Delivery: Dell and VMware Reference Architecture > Simplifying enterprise desktop deployment and management using > Dell EqualLogic storage and VMware View: A highly scalable, end-to-end > client virtualization framework. Read more! > http://p.sf.net/sfu/dell-eql-dev2dev > ___ > Factor-talk mailing list > Factor-talk@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/factor-talk > > > > > -- > Jim > "I'm for extending the working Medicare program for our seniors all the way > back to contraception, so Americans can concentrate on living their lives > without fear of changing a job, going bankrupt from deductibles or fighting > HMO bureaucracy." > > > -- > Centralized Desktop Delivery: Dell and VMware Reference Architecture > Simplifying enterprise desktop deployment and management using > Dell EqualLogic storage and VMware View: A highly scalable, end-to-end > client virtualization framework. Read more! > http://p.sf.net/sfu/dell-eql-dev2dev > ___ > Factor-talk mailing list > Factor-talk@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/factor-talk > > -- Jim "I'm for extending the working Medicare program for our seniors all the way back to contraception, so Americans can concentrate on living their lives without fear of changing a job, going bankrupt from deductibles or fighting HMO bureaucracy." -- Centralized Desktop Delivery: Dell and VMware Reference Architecture Simplifying enterprise desktop deployment and management using Dell EqualLogic storage and VMware View: A highly scalable, end-to-end client
Re: [Factor-talk] Furnace
Shaping,
Somehow I'm missing context. When/where did you see run-fac? I just tried
the part from TUPLE: to init-db and it worked on both mac and pc. Was this
an error message?
On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 12:26 AM, Shaping wrote:
> Jim, can you give me more context for the bits below? I cannot find a
> definition for run-fac.
>
>
>
> Shaping
>
>
>
> *From:* Jim mack [mailto:j...@less2do.com]
> *Sent:* 2010-November-08, 12:11
> *To:* factor-talk@lists.sourceforge.net
> *Subject:* Re: [Factor-talk] Furnace
>
>
>
> ! This is a self contained test of creating a sqlite db. Click on autouse,
> paste & enter.
>
> TUPLE: entity id author date content ;
>
> entity "entity" {
> { "id" "ID" INTEGER +db-assigned-id+ }
> { "author" "AUTHOR" { VARCHAR 256 } +not-null+ } ! uid
> { "date" "DATE" TIMESTAMP +not-null+ }
> { "content" "CONTENT" TEXT +not-null+ }
> } define-persistent
>
> : blog-db ( -- db ) "adhoc" home prepend-path [ make-directories ] [
> "blogs.sqlite" append-path ] bi ;
> : with-blog-data ( quot -- ) '[ blog-db _ with-db ] call ; inline
> : init-db ( -- ) [
> entity ensure-table
> ] with-blog-data ;
>
> "adhoc" home prepend-path "Look in: " prepend .
>
> init-db
>
>
>
> --
> Centralized Desktop Delivery: Dell and VMware Reference Architecture
> Simplifying enterprise desktop deployment and management using
> Dell EqualLogic storage and VMware View: A highly scalable, end-to-end
> client virtualization framework. Read more!
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/dell-eql-dev2dev
> ___
> Factor-talk mailing list
> Factor-talk@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/factor-talk
>
>
--
Jim
"I'm for extending the working Medicare program for our seniors all the way
back to contraception, so Americans can concentrate on living their lives
without fear of changing a job, going bankrupt from deductibles or fighting
HMO bureaucracy."
--
Centralized Desktop Delivery: Dell and VMware Reference Architecture
Simplifying enterprise desktop deployment and management using
Dell EqualLogic storage and VMware View: A highly scalable, end-to-end
client virtualization framework. Read more!
http://p.sf.net/sfu/dell-eql-dev2dev___
Factor-talk mailing list
Factor-talk@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/factor-talk
Re: [Factor-talk] Docs and other topics
Hi, I really hope you won't find my feedback egocentric, I simply state my opinion this way because I believe others might have the same view as me. - Linearity: absolutely. That is what I need the first time. And I mean Factor handbook / The language only - language concepts, basic combinators, etc, but from this territory everything! After that, the hypertext is just perfect, but I have to get to it somehow without losing my momentum. They say that until you have a goal you can achieve it because you have motivation. Without knowing the features of a language though I cannot set a reasonable goal. (Learning the language itself is no goal, doing something with it is one.) So I have to go through the docs without motivation and if they are unfriendly I will simply leave them be :) I have to mention that I really like the short straightforward nature of the descriptions though! Very good work. But linearity would be key, too. - General setup and accessibility: with that I did not have any problem, jEdit supports Factor out of the box so I had no difficulty with syntax highlighting either. That must be home territory for the language though for trivial reasons... The "one app bundled with everything for every platform" philosophy is also very appealing to me! I would need such a doc, too. - Tutorials: the palindrome was all right, but it is maybe not enough. Though far not as important as a readable doc! My learning style just needs some fundamentals then I can go and experiment myself. Another important remark: you really have to consider what is on the other side: Clojure is on the other side! If you want to stay alive in the long run, Factor has to be accessible! It is appealing already and people know it. And they begin with the Factor UI and they like it, then they want to develop professional applications with it and they have difficulties. On the other had they watch the overwhelmingly awesome presentations of Rich Hickey and fetch a short book on Clojure and have the almost instant opportunity to start professional development on an equally appealing platform. Not an easy situation - but it can be if you do the right moves. I guess I have to be promiscuous after all since both languages provide me continuous orgasms and stimulation with their depth and sanity. Bye, Balazs On Nov 12, 2010, at 8:01 AM, Shaping wrote: > Chris, I like your document, even though it is out of date. > > I think Balazs wants (as would I and others, I suspect) a nearly linear > tutorial-like instruction, including: setting up the Git repository; > checking out the clean branch; building Factor from that branch; running > Factor; setting up your Emacs editor (pick the best editor and use it to > show off the color and formatting; Factor looks like hell in black and > white); some simple instruction on tweaking font styles and sizes in the > Listener, Browser, and your Emacs editor; Slava's palindrome tutorial; his > little GUI-with-button-that-beeps tutorial; his TCP time-server tutorial > (and more). Describe how to use the most often used features, the ones you > must know to be fluent and effective, like hitting F2 in the Listener after > saving code in your editor, to pull in and compile all changed source-code > files, or using Ctrl-n and Ctrl-p for easily recalling and looping through > all of your previously entered expressions, and so on. You, the fluent > ones, can add some much more good stuff to this basic path of instruction, > which should be a narrow tree with a clear path toward fluency with the > environ and minimal competency with the language, with a few branches off to > side-topics, with appropriate links into the Browser help system, for > deeper, optional study. You don't want to overload the new guy with the > massive hypertree of Factor knowledge. It's too much, but will be become > very approachable once a practical foundation is laid with a few basic > programming exercises and practical advice on how to use the tools (Git, > Listener, Browser, Emacs). > > > Shaping > > -Original Message- > From: Chris Double [mailto:chris.dou...@double.co.nz] > Sent: 2010-November-11, 05:24 > To: factor-talk@lists.sourceforge.net > Subject: Re: [Factor-talk] Docs and other topics > > On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 12:09 AM, Balazs Toth wrote: >> - is there some accumulated, readable documentation of Factor somewhere? > Or at least a cheat sheet about the various features of the language? The > help system is really nice and sufficient as it is if someone already knows > what he is looking for. > > The built-in help, http://docs.factorcode.org and various blogs posts > are what is available. > >> - in another thread you are talking about the UI and the adaptation of the > system by someones supervisor. I would like to adapt the language as a > supervisor, but cannot do that because of its unreal learning curve and lack > of a handbook. > > The learning curve is
[Factor-talk] bignum/f always rounds toward zero, returns 0.0 for 0/0
A couple quick bugs in bignum-to-float division I found: - bignum/f rounds toward zero, when it should respect the floating point rounding mode, or at least round to nearest. An easy test case is to divide a bignum with more than 53 significant bits by 1: ( scratchpad ) HEX: 7f,,, >bignum [ >float .h ] [ 1 /f .h ] bi 1.0p55 1.fp54 ( scratchpad ) HEX: -7f,,, >bignum [ >float .h ] [ 1 /f .h ] bi -1.0p55 -1.fp54 For both of the above inputs, the first line is from >float, which correctly rounds to the nearest floating-point number, and the second is from 1 /f, which rounds toward zero. - Dividing bignum zero by zero gives 0.0, when it should give NAN: ( scratchpad ) 0 0 /f . NAN: 8 ( scratchpad ) 0 >bignum 0 /f . 0.0 -Joe -- Centralized Desktop Delivery: Dell and VMware Reference Architecture Simplifying enterprise desktop deployment and management using Dell EqualLogic storage and VMware View: A highly scalable, end-to-end client virtualization framework. Read more! http://p.sf.net/sfu/dell-eql-dev2dev ___ Factor-talk mailing list Factor-talk@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/factor-talk
Re: [Factor-talk] Furnace
Jim, can you give me more context for the bits below? I cannot find a
definition for run-fac.
Shaping
From: Jim mack [mailto:j...@less2do.com]
Sent: 2010-November-08, 12:11
To: factor-talk@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Factor-talk] Furnace
! This is a self contained test of creating a sqlite db. Click on autouse,
paste & enter.
TUPLE: entity id author date content ;
entity "entity" {
{ "id" "ID" INTEGER +db-assigned-id+ }
{ "author" "AUTHOR" { VARCHAR 256 } +not-null+ } ! uid
{ "date" "DATE" TIMESTAMP +not-null+ }
{ "content" "CONTENT" TEXT +not-null+ }
} define-persistent
: blog-db ( -- db ) "adhoc" home prepend-path [ make-directories ] [
"blogs.sqlite" append-path ] bi ;
: with-blog-data ( quot -- ) '[ blog-db _ with-db ] call ; inline
: init-db ( -- ) [
entity ensure-table
] with-blog-data ;
"adhoc" home prepend-path "Look in: " prepend .
init-db
--
Centralized Desktop Delivery: Dell and VMware Reference Architecture
Simplifying enterprise desktop deployment and management using
Dell EqualLogic storage and VMware View: A highly scalable, end-to-end
client virtualization framework. Read more!
http://p.sf.net/sfu/dell-eql-dev2dev___
Factor-talk mailing list
Factor-talk@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/factor-talk
