[FairfieldLife] Re: You Are an Illusion
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, John [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ruthsimplicity ruthsimplicity@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: My worry is that the experiments of modern science, both in physics and neuroscience, are becoming increasingly detached from the empirical actuality of everyday life. Our sciences are turning themselves into immaculate abstractions, unable to reduce or solve or even investigate the only reality we will ever know. Instead, that reality is disregarded as an illusion. That hardly strikes me as a satisfying answer. Yes, sometimes I feel like the freaky observer. :) Boy. And it's not just science; spiritual metaphysics does the same thing from the other direction, as it were. Schroedinger attempts to resolve the self is a fiction problem in that quotation I posted from his I That Is God essay, but in terms of ordinary, everyday experience, the solution is worse than the problem! From our point of view, some of the new cosmological theories (particularly Boltzman's brain) are nonsense, inspite of the fact that many of these scientists have doctorate degrees in their fields. IMO, they are presenting the infinite possibilities of describing the nature of the universe. But they are not necessarily the most accurate and best representation of reality. One particular cosmological theory appears to me as a representation of what the author thinks is important. Specifically, if you think, your brain is the best representation of yourself, then you can see your brain floating somewhere in some universe as a possible reincarnation of yourself. But that view is not necessarily true, humans are made up many things aside from a brain. Humans have a body with four limbs. Humans have senses to perceive the world. In short, these scientist are creating their own pipe dreams. They should go back to work, and should only give us the facts-- thank you very much. Actually, the guy I quoted misrepresents the Times article, which makes it very clear that nobody in the field believes that this is the way things really work. I read another blog post somewhere that says the Boltzmann's brain theory is really a reductio ad absurdum So we aren't asked to believe in Boltzmann's brains. However...quantum mechanics isn't really any easier to get one's mind around.
[FairfieldLife] Hmmm.... naasikaantarmadhyasaMyama?
The second to last suutra of Shiva-suutras of Kashmir shaivism
goes like this (from memory):
naasikaantarmadhyasaMyamaat kimatra savyaapasavyasauSumneSu*
I guess the sandhi-vigraha would be something like this:
naasikaa+antaH-madhya-saMyamaat kim atra savya+apasavya-sauSumneSu
From that (or, more accurately, partly from my own take on what that
suutra actually means) I developed an additional technique,
that's based on my biija-mantra, saMyama of Patañjali and a bit on
praaNaayaama, sort of.
It seems to me that technique awakens kuNDalinii almost
immediately,
or, then again, perhaps not... :D
*) I think 'savya', 'apasavya' and 'sauSumna' refer to the naDiis
(sp?) inside(?) the spine.
Capeller's Sanskrit-English Dictionary: Search Results
savya a. left (not right); ---, {savyam, -vye3na, -vyA3}, {-vye}
adv. from or on the left. m. the left arm, hand, or foot; n. the
sacred thread (worn over the left shoulder).
apasavya a. right, southern;
sauSumNa m. (fr. %{su-SumNa}) a kind of sunbeam VP.
And this + $2.13 buys me the largest cup of coffee at Starbuck's??
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Maharishi Says: Work is Finished'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, The Secret [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Even if he's not your master or guru, he deserves our honor and praise during this time of his transition and the classy way he's addressing it. As far as I know MMY has never claimed to be either! Neither a Master OR a Guru, and certainly not a Sat-Guru (true/realized Guru). He was simply a Maharishi or great teacher, don't make him out to be something he isn't or wasn't! If you've benefited from is meditation, fine, be thankful, but don't pigeon hole him into some role he never claimed or was, because you may have thought he should have been this or that. Also, unfortunately, MMY is not the kind of person that would write memoirs and therefore the true MMY will NEVER be known and unfortunately he will take all of that enigma to the grave with him, much to the consternation of many around him, as he could have revealed much about his overall life and the decisions he made and why he made them. As Charlie Lutes use to say...Indians are never long on explanation, they just expect you to follow them, well, we in west like to have reasons. We don't even know if MMY was enlightened and he never deemed it necessary or even helpful to tell us...we just had to plod along with assumptions, year after year after year! Who was the man after all?; one of the most impersonal, calculating spiritual leader I've ever met.maybe he was after all, just a 'great' teacher, a Maharishi!
[FairfieldLife] MMY's half-baked scheme to save the world!
MMY wanted his cake and eat it too! He wanted TM to be taught strictly as a science but he was unwilling to distance it from Religion! Therefor his 'scheme' was to sell the eternal Religion of the Vedas (MMY page four, the Vedas)in the form of Science and/or Politics. Quote, Today, when politics are guiding the destiny of man, the teaching should be related primarily to the field of politics and secondarily to that of economics. SBAL That was in 1963. He made some headway and changed some lives (including mine) but his teaching won't stand the test of time IMO because its foundations have been compromised, and without a solid foundation it will topple like a house of cards... If he had stated or targeted a full restitution of the eternal Religion of the Vedas, which in a backhanded way he was doing, he could have rescued TM (as it is called) from the demise of shallow scientific definitions, but without him here any longer to guide that along, it (the tmorg) is like a ship without a rudder, it's only a matter of time before it ends up on the hard rocks of forgotten history. Nice try Maharishi! At least you tried! I certainly benefited, how could I be bitter!? P.S. It's called **pandering**! (One who caters to others desires or weaknesses (science), Merriam-Webster)
[FairfieldLife] Facing one's mortality
And I am not frightened of dying. Any time will do, I don't mind. Why should I be frightened of dying? There's no reason for it. You've gotta go sometime. I never said I was frightened of dying. - Pink Floyd Music video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHEXx51OXRU GURU DEV: Every day be ready, bedding packed. Nobody knows what time the warrant comes. Death warrant is the arrest warrant - for you there is no scope for appeal, all at once it occurs ... you are to leave. Wherever one is, at that very place you will be falling down. If you are ready in the first place, then there will be no suffering at the time of death. He who remains ready to go, from him there will never be sin. Really it is by overlooking the [existence of the] other world that one becomes wicked and lives sinfully. If all this is remembered every day that one day one is going to let go [die], then henceforth a man will never lie or behave badly. Consider this; that when father, grandfather, great grandfather is not living then it cannot be that we will remain. When it is settled that we will go, then really if we are ready beforehand, then the traveling will be a pleasure; but if one is not ready then afterwards you will be suffering. Be careful of doing any work that you regret afterwards, at the time of going. If you are not careful then you cannot escape falling down. The stream of worldly existence takes a downward direction. The inclination of the senses is opposed to a man and in opposition one again falls into the wheel of desires, not considering the suitability. Therefore it is always necessary to be careful. At the time of death that which was good and bad in a man's own lifetime all come to be remembered. That sin that has been done remains, the fearful effects are remembered at the time of death - much repenting and much sadness occurs. Therefore you should be careful that no sin occurs to be regretted at the time of death. ~~ Shri Shankaracharya UpadeshAmrita kaNa 23 of 108 http://www.paulmason.info/gurudev/UA_Hindi.htm#kaNa_23
[FairfieldLife] Just curious: raajas?
I wonder, how many of the TMO raajas (and other big...er...wigs) are Jewish?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Dow Jones launches Dharma Indices....
Om, how bout a Tao Jones Index of spiritual experience for places, spiritual movements, gurus, preachers, llamas, ayatollahs, saints and spiritual healers? The Tao Jones Index of shakti for spiritual experience. Something like a shakti meter of spiritual experience. Could be sector indexes. Regions, countries, religion, spiritual practices. Gov't of Bhutan apparently has an index of `happiness that they keep. Being a Buddhist country, would be an index of `no=thing'? The Tao Jones Index of Shakti: The future for the 21st century is research published in respected peer-reviewed scientific journals. Period. Get used to it. Rama Krishna [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dow Jones Indexes, a leading global index provider, and Dharma Investments, a leading private investment firm pioneering the development of faith-based investment, today announced the launch of the Dow Jones Dharma Indexes. The new indexes measure the performance of companies selected according to the value systems and principles of Dharmic religions, http://www.primenewswire.com/newsroom/news.html?d=134246 especially Hinduism and Buddhism. The Dow Jones Dharma Index series includes the Dow Jones Dharma Global Index, as well as four country indexes for the U.S., the U.K., Japan and India. The indexes are designed to underlie financial products such as exchange-traded funds and other investable products that enable investors to participate in the performance of companies which are compliant with Dharmic religious traditions. The Dow Jones Dharma Indexes are the first faith-based indexes created to measure Dharma compliant equities. As faith-based and socially responsible investing continues to grow worldwide, our goal is to provide the investment community with the most comprehensive benchmarks that comply with these principles, said Michael A. Petronella, president of Dow Jones Indexes. The launch of the new Dow Jones Dharma Indexes marks a major step in our effort to further expand our range of faith-based indexes. Dow Jones Indexes pioneered this space by launching the Dow Jones Islamic Market Indexes in 1999 - - today the leading Islamic market indexes worldwide. We are honored to be serving a demand for faith-based investing, said Nitesh Gor, CEO of Dharma Investments. India and Asia have made remarkable advances economically over the last few years and in parallel we believe that bringing our religious values onto the global stage offers sustainable solutions to the problems facing the world today. The principle of Dharma contains precepts relevant to good conduct, but also the implicit requirement of mindfulness about the sources of wealth -- and therefore responsible investing, he added. The Dow Jones Dharma Index brings together a combination of environmental, social, governance and traditional sin sector filters. As such, the Index is unique and will not just have appeal to the religious, but to a far broader audience as well. We are also very grateful to the broad array of the most eminent spiritual leaders within the Dharma religions for their continuing involvement and blessings. Their endorsement of this Index gives us great confidence in its authority and eventual success. The index universe for the Dow Jones Dharma Indexes is defined as the top 5,000 components of the Dow Jones Wilshire Global Total Market Index as measured by float adjusted market capitalization, and all components in the Dow Jones Wilshire India Index. To be included in the Dow Jones Dharma Indexes, stocks must pass a set of industry, environmental, corporate governance and qualitative screens for Dharmic compliance. Industry screens include unacceptable sectors and business practices. Environmental screens take account of a company's impact or policies with respect to emissions, climate change and carbon footprint analysis, oil and chemical spills and waste management and recycling. Corporate Governance screens comprise the handling of labor relations/disputes/discrimination allegations, human rights violations, working conditions/wages. Excluded from the index are companies from sectors that are deemed unacceptable due to the nature of their business activities and operations. Excluded are also companies that have exposure to unacceptable business practices. Some examples of unacceptable sectors are aerospace and defense, brewers, casinos and gaming, pharmaceuticals, tobacco. Some examples for unacceptable business practices are alcohol, adult entertainment, animal testing and genetic modification of agricultural products. To ensure the quality of the indexes and the integrity of the underlying index methodology, three boards were established to define, build and implement the screening criteria: the Dow Jones Dharma Academic Advisory Committee, the Dow Jones Dharma Supervisory Board and the Dow Jones Dharma Religious Council. The Dow Jones
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Maharishi Says: Work is Finished'
As far as I know MMY has never claimed to be either! Neither a Master OR a Guru, and certainly not a Sat-Guru (true/realized Guru). Why not! That doesn't depend upon Maharishi… it depends upon you… it can be that Guru physically doesn't exist… doesn't matter if you are experiencing growth of enlightenment… Surrender and devotion makes Guru real… He was simply a Maharishi or great teacher, don't make him out to be something he isn't or wasn't! If you've benefited from is meditation, fine, be thankful, but don't pigeon hole him into some role he never claimed or was, because you may have thought he should have been this or that. Are you sure that your judgment is competent about what people should feel and think about him? Do you think that Guru is something object-referral? There is story in Shrimad Bhagavat about one avadhut and who his Gurus were.
[FairfieldLife] Re: MMY's half-baked scheme to save the world!
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, BillyG. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: MMY wanted his cake and eat it too! He wanted TM to be taught strictly as a science but he was unwilling to distance it from Religion! Therefor his 'scheme' was to sell the eternal Religion of the Vedas (MMY page four, the Vedas)in the form of Science and/or Politics. Quote, Today, when politics are guiding the destiny of man, the teaching should be related primarily to the field of politics and secondarily to that of economics. SBAL That was in 1963. He made some headway and changed some lives (including mine) but his teaching won't stand the test of time IMO because its foundations have been compromised, and without a solid foundation it will topple like a house of cards... If he had stated or targeted a full restitution of the eternal Religion of the Vedas, which in a backhanded way he was doing, he could have rescued TM (as it is called) from the demise of shallow scientific definitions, but without him here any longer to guide that along, it (the tmorg) is like a ship without a rudder, it's only a matter of time before it ends up on the hard rocks of forgotten history. Nice try Maharishi! At least you tried! I certainly benefited, how could I be bitter!? P.S. It's called **pandering**! (One who caters to others desires or weaknesses (science), Merriam-Webster) It's very telling about Maharishi that so many TMers [current and former] on this forum - who have actually had some close contact and association with him in varying degrees - appear to have such little feeling of loss for him in all of this. The only one's who seem really moved appear to be the ones who have bought into the bullshit outer clap-trap hokum that Maharishi's TMO has become - and their words of 'appreciation' reflect and mimic the goofy lingo of that clap-trap scenario. What's a tragedy in my eyes is that I deeply value the Transcendental Meditation itself and really can't see any worthy outlet for it currently shown by Maharishi's goofy club and its goofy members. Whenever something like that has attempted to raise its head, the TMO goons seem to have viciously overtly and covertly undermined, attacked and destroyed it. They also did that with the SRM. I know because I was in the middle of it as a TM teacher for SRM and directly saw what happened. I, personally, can only conclude that it's been how Maharishi himself wanted it. The truth is, as BillyG recently reminded us, TM is a do it yourself proposition. Membership and participation in the official club really has zilch to do with your TM experience or your awakening. In fact, in my view, I consider it to be a serious obstacle to one's *genuine* spiritual progress.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Hey Kids, USA is beginning to look a bit like China in the surveillance dept
On Jan 16, 2008, at 8:19 PM, Angela Mailander wrote: I've seen lots of buildings fall as a result of war, bombs, and plane crashes. Never before and never after did buildings fall as the World Trade Center buildings fell. It pulverized the concrete. this is not the same as the kind of rubble you get in situations in which there are no explosives planted for controlled demolition. But I do not care what you believe, nor do I really want to argue with you about this. You will not change your mind, and I will not change mine. Have you considered the only reasonable solution then? There's only one person who could pull this off with such speed and precision and access to tiny spaces. It's obviously Santa Claus. I suspected Mr. Claus was a member of Al Quaeda for some time now. Who else can travel at such high speeds and enter such small places? Plus he knows who was naughty and who's nice which means be obviously has a long running and unprecedented level of intelligence gathering. The problem, as I see it Angela, is his headquarters at the North Pole. It would be virtually impossible to approach his lair without him knowing. So here's what I propose. Next X-mas eve when Claus is invading our homes with lead-poisoned Chinese toys, abduct Ms. Claus and some key elves. They'll break under water-boarding in no time. It's time to put an end to all these wild conspiracy theories.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Just curious: raajas?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I wonder, how many of the TMO raajas (and other big...er...wigs) are Jewish? Be careful, Cardmeister, Bob Brigante might call you a 'Jew-hater'.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Just curious: raajas?
On Jan 17, 2008, at 8:13 AM, do.rflex wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I wonder, how many of the TMO raajas (and other big...er...wigs) are Jewish? Be careful, Cardmeister, Bob Brigante might call you a 'Jew-hater'. Come clean Card, You've been eating GARLIC haven't you?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Maharishi Says: Work is Finished'
On Jan 17, 2008, at 9:17 AM, Sal Sunshine wrote: On Jan 17, 2008, at 7:44 AM, Peter wrote: Who Maharishi is depends upon your direct experience with him. For some he is a sat guru And for others he's a standing guru. Recent reports indicate he is lying down during talks, so wouldn't that make him a lying guru?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Maharishi Says: Work is Finished'
On Jan 17, 2008, at 7:44 AM, Peter wrote: Who Maharishi is depends upon your direct experience with him. For some he is a sat guru And for others he's a standing guru. Sal
[FairfieldLife] of the assailing on FFL
Oh, proly not the blitz directly. Though seems Angela probably witnessed at least the effect of allied bombing of Germany in the 1940's. Did you miss this? Post, http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/161030 Angela writes: He was a swing kid, a guy from Hamburg, about sixteen years old. Swing kids were young people in Germany who loved American music (primarily swing), resisted Hitler, and suffered the consequences. Like us, he'd walked across Germany in 45, carrying only his lute and his guitar, and living, as we did, like stray dogs. We gave him our coal cellar. Not an ideal place, but better than the street, and we were already housing thirteen other refugees in a three room flat. Anyway, the guy loved life and music, and so I had a resident music teacher early on. And he played blues. My grandfather and I both fell in love with that sound. She seems a person who has lived a life around. Fault her for that? Attack her for that?Talking the third person ad hominid strawman thing about her reads beneath the belt when it seems she is in life experience and is able to draw on reflect about it too. I like that she has shown up here on FFL. Hers is often a good perspective voice to see in to things often with a lot of truth. Been in post war China. Evidently grew up in nazi-Germany. Has lived in Utopia. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/155116 Has lived and taught on campus here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/155084 Yes, always good to fact check but the ad hominem on FFL is boring. Jai Guru Dev, -Doug in FF LOL!! My reaction too. Would somebody tell me where Angela sees all these falling buildings? Did she have a front-row seat during the blitz? Are they some tourist attraction or something?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Maharishi Says: Work is Finished'
--- Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jan 17, 2008, at 7:44 AM, Peter wrote: Who Maharishi is depends upon your direct experience with him. For some he is a sat guru And for others he's a standing guru. Sal Ding, ding, ding Post of the day (or should it be a stood guru? Hmmm... Writers conference needed) Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Enter the Shotokan Dragon - Machida
--- curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you do not think that a hard kick to the head (which a hard shotokan kick can break 2 x 4's) does not run a high risk of killing someone, or causing severe brain damage, you are a complete fucking idiot. Period. OffWorld Why be such a dick about this? We both like Machida as a fighter. We both like UFC. So what is your problem? He is a good fighter among good fighters. If you want him to be the bestest of the bestest, the toppermost of the poppermost, stay tuned. He will stand or fall on his own merits. Not your fantasies. Here is a place where evidence WILL rule. These guys actually fight out our theories in a ring. So sit back, pop a beverage Ayurvedic or not, and chill the fuck out broheme. Got it? Curtis, you might as well try to teach music theory to a dog! Off has an obstinate gene (as is you didn't notice!!) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: The golden sprayfest you have stepped into Ruth, is not about whether or not people in contact sports get hurt. (surprise... they do!) It goes deeper into guyville, so please put on some rain gear. Seriously Ruth, goggle too, you'll thank me. All set? OK. The question is whether or not his favorite MMA fighter is unable to knock people out because he is afraid that his scary magical Shotokan strikes would kill a man. So he has to pull his punches in MMA fights unlike anyone else in the sport. Oooh sorry you got hit with some spray, I warned ya. When I asked for any evidence for such a unique position, Off responded by calling me a fucking idiot. Very clever, very subtle. I am carefully considering my response options to this insightful counter to a request for evidence. The evidence was clearly laid out for you but you are a dumbass and ignored it. Boxers can die from a hard punch in a boxing match and many of them end up brain damaged. And they are wearing big padded gloves ! So there are a hundreds of examples of a hard punch with a big padded glove killing people since boxing was a recognised sport. If you do not think that a hard kick to the head (which a hard shotokan kick can break 2 x 4's) does not run a high risk of killing someone, or causing severe brain damage, you are a complete fucking idiot. Period. OffWorld To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Maharishi Says: Work is Finished'
--- BillyG. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Zoran Krneta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As far as I know MMY has never claimed to be either! Neither a Master OR a Guru, and certainly not a Sat-Guru (true/realized Guru). Why not! That doesn't depend upon Maharishi it depends upon you it can be that Guru physically doesn't exist doesn't matter if you are experiencing growth of enlightenment Surrender and devotion makes Guru real He was simply a Maharishi or great teacher, don't make him out to be something he isn't or wasn't! If you've benefited from is meditation, fine, be thankful, but don't pigeon hole him into some role he never claimed or was, because you may have thought he should have been this or that. Are you sure that your judgment is competent about what people should feel and think about him? Do you think that Guru is something object-referral? There is story in Shrimad Bhagavat about one avadhut and who his Gurus were. For Zoran and Peter: The *specific* meaning of a Satguru! Satguru or Sadguru means true guru. (Sanskrit #2360;#2342;#2327;#2369;#2352;#2370; sat=true), literally: true teacher. The title means that his students have faith that the guru can be trusted and will lead them to moksha, enlightenment or inner peace.[citation needed] It is based on a long line of Hindu philosophical understandings of the importance of knowledge and that the teacher, guru, is the sacred conduit to self-realization. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sat_Guru Billy, you miss our point. The reality of what MMY is ,is based upon your experience of him, not some sort of consensual, objective reality that we all agree upon. That objective, consensual reality is just a label to soothe the mind. For example, I'm sure there were many people who experienced Jesus to be a complete asshole. Look at that fuckin' Jesus, what a tool! For them, he was a fraud, a joke. That is their experiential reality of him and for them, he is a fraud. But for a guy standing right next to them who's experience is different, Jesus is Lord of the Universe, God incarnate, the Word made flesh. Its all based upon the experienced reality, not the mental concept. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping
[FairfieldLife] Re: MMY's half-baked scheme to save the world!
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, do.rflex [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's very telling about Maharishi that so many TMers [current and former] on this forum - who have actually had some close contact and association with him in varying degrees - appear to have such little feeling of loss for him in all of this. The only one's who seem really moved appear to be the ones who have bought into the bullshit outer clap-trap hokum that Maharishi's TMO has become - and their words of 'appreciation' reflect and mimic the goofy lingo of that clap-trap scenario. What's a tragedy in my eyes is that I deeply value the Transcendental Meditation itself and really can't see any worthy outlet for it currently shown by Maharishi's goofy club and its goofy members. Whenever something like that has attempted to raise its head, the TMO goons seem to have viciously overtly and covertly undermined, attacked and destroyed it. They also did that with the SRM. I know because I was in the middle of it as a TM teacher for SRM and directly saw what happened. I, personally, can only conclude that it's been how Maharishi himself wanted it. The truth is, as BillyG recently reminded us, TM is a do it yourself proposition. Membership and participation in the official club really has zilch to do with your TM experience or your awakening. In fact, in my view, I consider it to be a serious obstacle to one's *genuine* spiritual progress. Indeed! We're on the same page on this one! I think the lack of feeling is due to the lack of personal attention MMY gave to anyone, really! He was not, after all a *personal* GURU! Like Charlie used to say, ...with TM you're on your own. Deal with it folksTM is a good Sadhana just the same!
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Maharishi Says: Work is Finished'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Zoran Krneta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As far as I know MMY has never claimed to be either! Neither a Master OR a Guru, and certainly not a Sat-Guru (true/realized Guru). Why not! That doesn't depend upon Maharishi it depends upon you it can be that Guru physically doesn't exist doesn't matter if you are experiencing growth of enlightenment Surrender and devotion makes Guru real He was simply a Maharishi or great teacher, don't make him out to be something he isn't or wasn't! If you've benefited from is meditation, fine, be thankful, but don't pigeon hole him into some role he never claimed or was, because you may have thought he should have been this or that. Are you sure that your judgment is competent about what people should feel and think about him? Do you think that Guru is something object-referral? There is story in Shrimad Bhagavat about one avadhut and who his Gurus were. For Zoran and Peter: The *specific* meaning of a Satguru! Satguru or Sadguru means true guru. (Sanskrit #2360;#2342;#2327;#2369;#2352;#2370; sat=true), literally: true teacher. The title means that his students have faith that the guru can be trusted and will lead them to moksha, enlightenment or inner peace.[citation needed] It is based on a long line of Hindu philosophical understandings of the importance of knowledge and that the teacher, guru, is the sacred conduit to self-realization. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sat_Guru
[FairfieldLife] Re: Just curious: raajas?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I wonder, how many of the TMO raajas (and other big...er...wigs) are Jewish? Rona Abramson, a woman of Jewish ancestry, is a Raja Rajeshwari. In 1980, many people of Jewish ancestry held positions of leadership on the MIU campus. Over the past decades, many seem to have left the TMO. When Larry Domash was replaced by Bevan as MIU President, Physics teacher Bob Rabinowitz could hardly hold his disdain for Bevan. speaking loudly in a 'private' conversation just before a class, within earshot of many, Bob cited as evidence of Bevan's incompetence Bevan's incorrect use of the plural form of the Latin term 'forum' in the speech Bevan made the day earlier at the transition ceremony.( Bevan used the term 'forums', rather than 'fora' ). Bob's charge was that Bevan didn't even know his native language, and was therefore unqualified to lead MIU. Bob didn't remain much longer on faculty. MMY's choice of Tony Abul-Nader, a Labanese Christian? by birth, to be MMY's designated successor might have diminished enthusiasm of Jewish TMers for the TMO. The Kaplan brothers certainly had the funds to become Rajas, but they had distanced themselves from MMY before the Rajas were created.
[FairfieldLife] SSRS on the Ego
Interesting video. Talks about Realization via the expansion of the ego to include everything and also the contraction of the ego to the point of nothingness. http://tinyurl.com/21q98h Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
[FairfieldLife] Re: OMG !.....He has left the body !.....Jan. 12
FW: i am trying to get my mind around Maharishi dying. i realize that i think of him as an immortal value. i know that i do not have the same respect for the words of any other source. i more than believe in his status, i have experienced it. he has perplexed me, but i have no question that the technique that he taught me has worked, and i have a level of gratitude for his tradition that i do not have for anything else. as far as i'm concerned, there is no one to replace him. i don't know what it means to be without one's teacher. i am suspecting that it will feel very different. i am assuming that i will feel that there is no ultimate arbitrator, and that will make me feel adrift. that the world has returned to argument only. that the transcendent has lost its best articulator. i don't think that i will feel that Nature speaks english anymore. i will be concerned about losing my way. FW: you are not alone in these feelings. it is a wonderful thing...besides all the wacky projects, money laundering, hanky panky, whatever.that the 'diamond' in all this is indeed beyond all compare. its what i remember every time i puja to the holy tradition. As to life after mmy, that is what the 'inner guru' is all about. Self illumination. its what he wants for us, what he has always wanted for us. and to that, i hold. it will be very strange and, yes , lonely in a way. but we will see when the time comes. he is passing the torch to Tony Nader in his raja suitso what to do, eh? all blessings, off_world_beings no_reply@ wrote: OMG ! I have it on good authority that he has left the body today, of all days, on January the 12th...how wierd is that !??? It is uncanny ! What now?!! OffWorld Regarding your thoughts over MMY passing. First he does not pass. He/it is not IN your heart, he IS your heart. Secondly, attachment to exterior entities, even though powerful, is a crutch. Thirdly, it will make you stronger. Fourthly, you will feel more bliss after his passing, not less. Fifthly, your evolution will continue exponentially because it has been set in motion, and you will be free, and in that freedom you will be a Maharishi and you will spend the rest of your days not caring about the material, but passing on knowledge in some way or another, and enjoying every moment of it. What higher life is there than that? OffWorld om
[FairfieldLife] for Angela, WAS Re: Facing one's mortality
Angela, I was struck by some echoes of Hamlet in this quotation from Guru Dev. Hamlet is all about learning how to die (I think we agree), and Guru Dev's He who remains ready to go, from him there will never be sin, reminds me of Hamlet's the readiness is all speech in Act 5. And also, in the next paragraph, Guru Dev's point is very close to Claudius' advice to Hamlet about not continuing to grieve for his father (your father lost a father / That father lost, lost his . . . ) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, do.rflex [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: GURU DEV: Every day be ready, bedding packed. Nobody knows what time the warrant comes. Death warrant is the arrest warrant - for you there is no scope for appeal, all at once it occurs ... you are to leave. Wherever one is, at that very place you will be falling down. If you are ready in the first place, then there will be no suffering at the time of death. He who remains ready to go, from him there will never be sin. Really it is by overlooking the [existence of the] other world that one becomes wicked and lives sinfully. If all this is remembered every day that one day one is going to let go [die], then henceforth a man will never lie or behave badly. Consider this; that when father, grandfather, great grandfather is not living then it cannot be that we will remain. When it is settled that we will go, then really if we are ready beforehand, then the traveling will be a pleasure; but if one is not ready then afterwards you will be suffering. Be careful of doing any work that you regret afterwards, at the time of going. If you are not careful then you cannot escape falling down. The stream of worldly existence takes a downward direction. The inclination of the senses is opposed to a man and in opposition one again falls into the wheel of desires, not considering the suitability. Therefore it is always necessary to be careful. At the time of death that which was good and bad in a man's own lifetime all come to be remembered. That sin that has been done remains, the fearful effects are remembered at the time of death - much repenting and much sadness occurs. Therefore you should be careful that no sin occurs to be regretted at the time of death. ~~ Shri Shankaracharya UpadeshAmrita kaNa 23 of 108 http://www.paulmason.info/gurudev/UA_Hindi.htm#kaNa_23
[FairfieldLife] Re: of the assailing on FFL
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If that's your view of my take on the situation, then you're right to object. Too simplistic. Angela's take on the situation: I've seen lots of buildings fall as a result of war, bombs, and plane crashes. Never before and never after did buildings fall as the World Trade Center buildings fell. It pulverized the concrete. this is not the same as the kind of rubble you get in situations in which there are no explosives planted for controlled demolition. My view of Angela's take on the situation: FWIW, my 'LOL' had to do with the utter absurdity of Angela's extrapolating from whatever building collapses she may have seen to the collapse of the World Trade Center towers, concluding that because the latter didn't look like the former, therefore the latter must have been the result of controlled demolition. Angela is, of course, welcome to expand on what she wrote and explain why my view of her take is too simplistic. But she won't. Nor will she check out the links I provided to the latest NIST findings. Indeed, according to her: But I do not care what you believe, nor do I really want to argue with you about this. You will not change your mind, and I will not change mine. Perhaps the most blatant instance of My mind is made up, don't confuse me with the facts that I've yet seen on this forum.
[FairfieldLife] Re: OMG !.....He has left the body !.....Jan. 12
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: FW: you are not alone in these feelings. it is a wonderful thing...besides all the wacky projects, money laundering, hanky panky, whatever.that the 'diamond' in all this is indeed beyond all compare. its what i remember every time i puja to the holy tradition. As to life after mmy, that is what the 'inner guru' is all about. Self illumination. its what he wants for us, what he has always wanted for us. and to that, i hold. That's a nice sentiment that I concur with!
[FairfieldLife] Re: Hey Kids, USA is beginning to look a bit like China in the surveillance dept
Point one finger and you'll find five fingers pointing back at you. --Old Saw I think it must be three cuz I can't get my thumb to point back. It should be: When you point your finger you have three fingers pointed back at you plus a thumb that either points straight up or could also point in the direction of your pointing finger, in which case you would have two fingers pointed at the other person and three pointed back at yourself, which is almost even really when you think about it. I guess this is the reason my old saws keep getting rejected by publishers. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander mailander111@ wrote: As the air to a bird or the sea to a fish, so is contempt to the contemptible. William Blake Oh, very good rejoinder, Angela. Boy, that really advances the discussion. Here's my contribution: Point one finger and you'll find five fingers pointing back at you. --Old Saw Your turn. From: authfriend jstein@ --- In FairfieldLife@ yahoogroups. com, Sal Sunshine salsunshine@ ... wrote: On Jan 16, 2008, at 8:27 PM, authfriend wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@ yahoogroups. com, Angela Mailander mailander111@ wrote: I've seen lots of buildings fall as a result of war, bombs, and plane crashes. Never before and never after did buildings fall as the World Trade Center buildings fell. LOL!! My reaction too. Would somebody tell me where Angela sees all these falling buildings? Did she have a front-row seat during the blitz? Are they some tourist attraction or something? And how many of the buildings were over 100 stories tall, constructed like the World Trade Center towers, and struck near the top by 767s? There has been nothing like the WTC attacks before or since, and nothing like the WTC towers before or since, for that matter. It would be astonishing if they *had* fallen as other buildings have.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Hey Kids, USA is beginning to look a bit like China in the surveillance dept
Indeed. Like Bush said, Never let us tolerate any outrageous conspiracy
theories.
- Original Message
From: Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2008 6:33:47 AM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Hey Kids, USA is beginning to look a bit like
China in the surveillance dept
On Jan 16, 2008, at 8:19 PM, Angela Mailander wrote:
I've seen lots of buildings fall as a result of war, bombs, and plane crashes.
Never before and never after did buildings fall as the World Trade Center
buildings fell. It pulverized the concrete. this is not the same as the kind
of rubble you get in situations in which there are no explosives planted for
controlled demolition. But I do not care what you believe, nor do I really
want to argue with you about this. You will not change your mind, and I will
not change mine.
Have you considered the only reasonable solution then? There's only one person
who could pull this off with such speed and precision and access to tiny spaces.
It's obviously Santa Claus.
I suspected Mr. Claus was a member of Al Quaeda for some time now. Who else can
travel at such high speeds and enter such small places? Plus he knows who was
naughty and who's nice which means be obviously has a long running and
unprecedented level of intelligence gathering.
The problem, as I see it Angela, is his headquarters at the North Pole. It
would be virtually impossible to approach his lair without him knowing.
So here's what I propose. Next X-mas eve when Claus is invading our homes with
lead-poisoned Chinese toys, abduct Ms. Claus and some key elves. They'll break
under water-boarding in no time.
It's time to put an end to all these wild conspiracy theories.
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Maharishi Says: Work is Finished'
Salutations to you, Sage, Kindly tell us what guru has given you the great knowledge which has made you perfect in wisdom, full of peace, and devoted to the good of all living beings. The Avadhut anwered: One's own Self is one's chief Guru. By knowledge of Self [in] communion one gets the great bliss. The Avadhut did not learn from one particular source, but from many teachers, or gurus. He then mentioned twenty-four of them, including *Water, the earth, the wind, space, the moon, the sun, the sea, and the arrow-maker...* **http://oaks.nvg.org/pv6bk7.html 2008/1/17, BillyG. [EMAIL PROTECTED]: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com, Zoran Krneta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As far as I know MMY has never claimed to be either! Neither a Master OR a Guru, and certainly not a Sat-Guru (true/realized Guru). Why not! That doesn't depend upon Maharishi… it depends upon you… it can be that Guru physically doesn't exist… doesn't matter if you are experiencing growth of enlightenment… Surrender and devotion makes Guru real… He was simply a Maharishi or great teacher, don't make him out to be something he isn't or wasn't! If you've benefited from is meditation, fine, be thankful, but don't pigeon hole him into some role he never claimed or was, because you may have thought he should have been this or that. Are you sure that your judgment is competent about what people should feel and think about him? Do you think that Guru is something object-referral? There is story in Shrimad Bhagavat about one avadhut and who his Gurus were. For Zoran and Peter: The *specific* meaning of a Satguru! Satguru or Sadguru means true guru. (Sanskrit #2360;#2342;#2327;#2369;#2352;#2370; sat=true), literally: true teacher. The title means that his students have faith that the guru can be trusted and will lead them to moksha, enlightenment or inner peace.[citation needed] It is based on a long line of Hindu philosophical understandings of the importance of knowledge and that the teacher, guru, is the sacred conduit to self-realization. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sat_Guru
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: of the assailing on FFL
If that's your view of my take on the situation, then you're right to object.
Too simplistic.
- Original Message
From: authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2008 9:34:01 AM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: of the assailing on FFL
--- In FairfieldLife@ yahoogroups. com, dhamiltony2k5
dhamiltony2k5@ ... wrote:
snip
She seems a person who has lived a life around. Fault her for
that? Attack her for that?
I don't believe Sal was attacking or faulting Angela
for her life experience. Kind of strange that you
read Sal's comment that way.
FWIW, my LOL had to do with the utter absurdity
of Angela's extrapolating from whatever building
collapses she may have seen to the collapse of
the World Trade Center towers, concluding that
because the latter didn't look like the former,
therefore the latter must have been the result of
controlled demolition.
Talking the third person ad hominid strawman
thing about her reads beneath the belt when it seems she is in
life experience and is able to draw on reflect about it too.
I like that she has shown up here on FFL. Hers is often a good
perspective voice to see in to things often with a lot of truth.
You think that applies to her argument in this case?
Or that she should get a pass on it because you've
liked some of the other things she's said?
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[FairfieldLife] Re: Hey Kids, USA is beginning to look a bit like China in the surveillance dept
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As the air to a bird or the sea to a fish, so is contempt to the contemptible. William Blake Oh, very good rejoinder, Angela. Boy, that really advances the discussion. Here's my contribution: Point one finger and you'll find five fingers pointing back at you. --Old Saw Your turn. From: authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- In FairfieldLife@ yahoogroups. com, Sal Sunshine salsunshine@ ... wrote: On Jan 16, 2008, at 8:27 PM, authfriend wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@ yahoogroups. com, Angela Mailander mailander111@ wrote: I've seen lots of buildings fall as a result of war, bombs, and plane crashes. Never before and never after did buildings fall as the World Trade Center buildings fell. LOL!! My reaction too. Would somebody tell me where Angela sees all these falling buildings? Did she have a front-row seat during the blitz? Are they some tourist attraction or something? And how many of the buildings were over 100 stories tall, constructed like the World Trade Center towers, and struck near the top by 767s? There has been nothing like the WTC attacks before or since, and nothing like the WTC towers before or since, for that matter. It would be astonishing if they *had* fallen as other buildings have.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Maharishi Says: Work is Finished'
--- BillyG. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, The Secret [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Even if he's not your master or guru, he deserves our honor and praise during this time of his transition and the classy way he's addressing it. As far as I know MMY has never claimed to be either! Neither a Master OR a Guru, and certainly not a Sat-Guru (true/realized Guru). He was simply a Maharishi or great teacher, don't make him out to be something he isn't or wasn't! If you've benefited from is meditation, fine, be thankful, but don't pigeon hole him into some role he never claimed or was, because you may have thought he should have been this or that. Who Maharishi is depends upon your direct experience with him. For some he is a sat guru, for others he is a great teacher, for others he is a demon, for others a fraud. Its all based on experience. Pure concepts and labels are useless here. Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Maharishi Says: Work is Finished'
IS THERE ANY VERIFICATION TO THE RUMOR THAT MAHARISHI AS LEFT THE BODY? - Original Message From: BillyG. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2008 9:15:12 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Maharishi Says: Work is Finished' --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, The Secret [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Even if he's not your master or guru, he deserves our honor and praise during this time of his transition and the classy way he's addressing it. As far as I know MMY has never claimed to be either! Neither a Master OR a Guru, and certainly not a Sat-Guru (true/realized Guru). He was simply a Maharishi or great teacher, don't make him out to be something he isn't or wasn't! If you've benefited from is meditation, fine, be thankful, but don't pigeon hole him into some role he never claimed or was, because you may have thought he should have been this or that. Also, unfortunately, MMY is not the kind of person that would write memoirs and therefore the true MMY will NEVER be known and unfortunately he will take all of that enigma to the grave with him, much to the consternation of many around him, as he could have revealed much about his overall life and the decisions he made and why he made them. As Charlie Lutes use to say...Indians are never long on explanation, they just expect you to follow them, well, we in west like to have reasons. We don't even know if MMY was enlightened and he never deemed it necessary or even helpful to tell us...we just had to plod along with assumptions, year after year after year! Who was the man after all?; one of the most impersonal, calculating spiritual leader I've ever met.maybe he was after all, just a 'great' teacher, a Maharishi! To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
[FairfieldLife] Online ordering at Revelations
Dear Everyone, As you may or may not know, for the last year or so I have been working with a couple of partners to develop a new product to allow people to order from a restaurant by going online. Our first customer is Revelations. Their address is HYPERLINK http://www.revelationscafe.com/www.revelationscafe.com I would like to ask a favor: The next time you want to eat there, please go to the above site and order online. As you go through the process of ordering, if you get stuck or confused or see a smoother or slicker way of doing something, would you let me know? Getting feedback and suggestions from users is the best way for us to make the process perfect. When you go to check out, if you enter coupon number 481950 you will get a 10% off of your order. (The coupon is good for 3 uses and expires on February 15th.) (We just switched to our permanent server and if the coupon doesn't work, it will shortly. In any case, when you pick up the order tell them if it didn't and they will give you 10% off.) Thank you for your help. Michael Blitz 919-3296 PS Feel free to forward this offer to others. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.5/1228 - Release Date: 1/16/2008 9:01 AM
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Maharishi Says: Work is Finished'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Louis McKenzie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: IS THERE ANY VERIFICATION TO THE RUMOR THAT MAHARISHI AS LEFT THE BODY? Louis: Elvis has not left the building, I repeat: Elvis has not left the building.
[FairfieldLife] The TMers Pledge
It is my fortune, Guru Dev, that I have been accepted to serve the Holy Tradition and spread the Light of God to all those who need it. It is my joy to undertake the responsibility of representing the Holy Tradition in all its purity as it has been given to me by Maharishi and I promise on your altar, Guru Dev, that with all my heart and mind I will always work within the framework of the Organisations founded by Maharishi. And to you, Maharishi, I promise that as a Meditation Guide I will be faithful in all ways to the trust that you have placed in me. Notes for readers: Here is the TMers pledge that all graduates of TM Teacher Training are required to sign before becoming TM teachers. Source: Malnak v. Yogi U.S. District Court, District of New Jersey, Civil Action No. 76-341 Kropinski v. Yogi U.S. District Court, District of Columbia, Consolidated Civil Action Nos. 85-2848-852854
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Maharishi Says: Work is Finished'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Louis McKenzie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: IS THERE ANY VERIFICATION TO THE RUMOR THAT MAHARISHI AS LEFT THE BODY? Louis, The rumor of which you speak was at its height for a few hours on Jan. 12th, when MMY missed his own birthday party. But since Jan. 12th, all agree that although frail, MMY is still alive. You wrote to FFL twice on Jan. 13th, both times mentioning how much MMY has meant to you. He is still alive.He is still alive.He is still alive. - Original Message From: BillyG. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2008 9:15:12 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Maharishi Says: Work is Finished' --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, The Secret L.Shaddai@ wrote: Even if he's not your master or guru, he deserves our honor and praise during this time of his transition and the classy way he's addressing it. As far as I know MMY has never claimed to be either! Neither a Master OR a Guru, and certainly not a Sat-Guru (true/realized Guru). He was simply a Maharishi or great teacher, don't make him out to be something he isn't or wasn't! If you've benefited from is meditation, fine, be thankful, but don't pigeon hole him into some role he never claimed or was, because you may have thought he should have been this or that. Also, unfortunately, MMY is not the kind of person that would write memoirs and therefore the true MMY will NEVER be known and unfortunately he will take all of that enigma to the grave with him, much to the consternation of many around him, as he could have revealed much about his overall life and the decisions he made and why he made them. As Charlie Lutes use to say...Indians are never long on explanation, they just expect you to follow them, well, we in west like to have reasons. We don't even know if MMY was enlightened and he never deemed it necessary or even helpful to tell us...we just had to plod along with assumptions, year after year after year! Who was the man after all?; one of the most impersonal, calculating spiritual leader I've ever met.maybe he was after all, just a 'great' teacher, a Maharishi! To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev and his Brahman thingy
Richard is a lost soul to think that killing less children than another killer's total makes one more moral or justified. Murder is murder is murder. Every president of America has authorized murder. The nations of the world kill children, take pictures of their bloody bodies in the arms of their devastated parents, and sell the graphic carnage to us as entertainment on Fox News. If today's barbarity were to somehow be nutshelled into, say, ten words, and these words were spoken 2000 years ago to the crowd watching lions eat Christians in the Roman Colosseum, there would be an audible gasp of disbelief at the sheer volume of killing being done today. Our lions, you see, have roars as loud as 500 pound bombs and can kill dozens, nay, hundreds, nay, MILLIONS in one swipe of a nuclear paw. The Roman miscreants would shit their togas if they saw us for what we are today. Kali Yuga produces a Richard type -- ain't nobody surprised. Edg --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Richard J. Williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Duveyoung wrote: Anyone else want to take a turn at whipping this creep? We shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe, in order to assure the survival and the success of liberty. - John F. Kennedy Much has been said and written by his foes about how the foreign policy of U.S. President George W. Bush has alienated what should be a host of American allies in Europe. Recent elections in Britain, Germany and France, however, have produced national leaders who have been outspoken in expressing their American sympathies, and a recent survey shows that the world overwhelmingly still wants America to play a key role in world affairs. Read more: 'Putin in Europe's Legal Crosshairs' Posted by by Kim Zigfeld Pajamas Media, January 16, 2008 http://pajamasmedia.com/2008/01/putin_in_the_dock.php
[FairfieldLife] Re: of the assailing on FFL
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip She seems a person who has lived a life around. Fault her for that? Attack her for that? I don't believe Sal was attacking or faulting Angela for her life experience. Kind of strange that you read Sal's comment that way. FWIW, my LOL had to do with the utter absurdity of Angela's extrapolating from whatever building collapses she may have seen to the collapse of the World Trade Center towers, concluding that because the latter didn't look like the former, therefore the latter must have been the result of controlled demolition. Talking the third person ad hominid strawman thing about her reads beneath the belt when it seems she is in life experience and is able to draw on reflect about it too. I like that she has shown up here on FFL. Hers is often a good perspective voice to see in to things often with a lot of truth. You think that applies to her argument in this case? Or that she should get a pass on it because you've liked some of the other things she's said?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Hey Kids, USA is beginning to look a bit like China in the surveillance dept
As the air to a bird or the sea to a fish, so is contempt to the contemptible.
William Blake
- Original Message
From: authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 9:55:37 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Hey Kids, USA is beginning to look a bit like
China in the surveillance dept
--- In FairfieldLife@ yahoogroups. com, Sal Sunshine salsunshine@
...
wrote:
On Jan 16, 2008, at 8:27 PM, authfriend wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@ yahoogroups. com, Angela Mailander
mailander111@ wrote:
I've seen lots of buildings fall as a result of war, bombs,
and plane crashes. Never before and never after did buildings
fall as the World Trade Center buildings fell.
LOL!!
My reaction too. Would somebody tell me where Angela sees all
these falling buildings? Did she have a front-row seat during
the blitz? Are they some tourist attraction or something?
And how many of the buildings were over 100
stories tall, constructed like the World Trade
Center towers, and struck near the top by 767s?
There has been nothing like the WTC attacks
before or since, and nothing like the WTC towers
before or since, for that matter. It would be
astonishing if they *had* fallen as other
buildings have.
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[FairfieldLife] Sound Arya La Hari
Here is an excerpt from the Sound Arya La Hari composed by the Adi Shankara. The Sounda contains numerous TM bija mantras. This ode is daily recited by all the Saraswati Dasanamis at Sringeri Matha. Shankara wrote this ode for our understanding and then he kindly placed a Sri Yantra at all the five mathas, with the TM bijas inscribed thereon. Note to readers: The # below indicates bija mantra found in the Sounda. This tantra by Shankaracharya is reproduced here for pedagogic purposes only. All credit for the tranliteration is Pandit Anshuman Pandey (see below). Warning!!! I am not at liberty to reaveal any tantric mantras, due the esoteric nature of the subject. And certain vows and pledges signed with the Tibetan Masters of the Himalayas, so don't even bother to email me with a translation request - bija mantras can't be translated anyway - you must be getting them from a qualified guru. - Richard J. Williams 'Saundaryalahari of Sri Shankaracarya' Transliterated and proofread by Pandit Anshuman Pandey April 16, 1996 [EMAIL PROTECTED] shivaH shaktyaa yukto yadi bhavati shaktaH prabhavituM na cedevaM devo na khalu kushalaH spanditumapi . atastvaamaaraadhyaaM hariharaviri~ncaadibhirapi praNantuM stotuM vaa kathamakR^itapuNyaH prabhavati .. 1.. taniiyaaMsaM paaMsuM tava caraNapaN^keruhabhavaM viri~ncissa~ncinvan.h viracayati lokaanavikalam.h . bahatyenaM shauriH kathamapi sahasreNa shirasaaM harassaMxudyainaM bhajati bhasitoddhuulanavidhim.h .. 2.. avidyaanaamanta##-##stimira##-##mihiradviipanagarii jaDaanaaM caitanya##-##stabaka##-##makaranda##-##srutijharii . daridraaNaaM cintaamaNiguNanikaa janmajaladhau nimagnaanaaM daMShTraa muraripu##-##varaahasya bhavatii .. 3.. ... Abbreviated notes of Pandit Pandey: The Saundaryalahari, or in its shorter version, the Ananda Lahari, Wave of Bliss, is a devotional poem of one hundred hymns, and is ascribed to the great teacher Sri Shankaracarya. The poem is divided into two parts; the first part, comprised of verses 1 through 41, is called the Anandalahari, and verses 42 through 100 comprise the Saundaryalahari, or Wave of Beauty. The poem extols the dynamic aspect of Brahman, as Sakti, manifestations for worship, and the modes of internal meditation.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Maharishi Says: Work is Finished'
THANKS VERY MUCH I hope that if and when he does make some transition it is shared and I can see it or reaction to.. - Original Message From: mainstream20016 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2008 2:52:29 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Maharishi Says: Work is Finished' --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Louis McKenzie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: IS THERE ANY VERIFICATION TO THE RUMOR THAT MAHARISHI AS LEFT THE BODY? Louis, The rumor of which you speak was at its height for a few hours on Jan. 12th, when MMY missed his own birthday party. But since Jan. 12th, all agree that although frail, MMY is still alive. You wrote to FFL twice on Jan. 13th, both times mentioning how much MMY has meant to you. He is still alive.He is still alive.He is still alive. - Original Message From: BillyG. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2008 9:15:12 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Maharishi Says: Work is Finished' --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, The Secret L.Shaddai@ wrote: Even if he's not your master or guru, he deserves our honor and praise during this time of his transition and the classy way he's addressing it. As far as I know MMY has never claimed to be either! Neither a Master OR a Guru, and certainly not a Sat-Guru (true/realized Guru). He was simply a Maharishi or great teacher, don't make him out to be something he isn't or wasn't! If you've benefited from is meditation, fine, be thankful, but don't pigeon hole him into some role he never claimed or was, because you may have thought he should have been this or that. Also, unfortunately, MMY is not the kind of person that would write memoirs and therefore the true MMY will NEVER be known and unfortunately he will take all of that enigma to the grave with him, much to the consternation of many around him, as he could have revealed much about his overall life and the decisions he made and why he made them. As Charlie Lutes use to say...Indians are never long on explanation, they just expect you to follow them, well, we in west like to have reasons. We don't even know if MMY was enlightened and he never deemed it necessary or even helpful to tell us...we just had to plod along with assumptions, year after year after year! Who was the man after all?; one of the most impersonal, calculating spiritual leader I've ever met.maybe he was after all, just a 'great' teacher, a Maharishi! To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Hey Kids, USA is beginning to look a bit like China in the surveillance dept
Seems like you can't count.
- Original Message
From: authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2008 9:42:10 AM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Hey Kids, USA is beginning to look a bit like
China in the surveillance dept
--- In FairfieldLife@ yahoogroups. com, Angela Mailander
mailander111@ ... wrote:
As the air to a bird or the sea to a fish, so is contempt
to the contemptible.
William Blake
Oh, very good rejoinder, Angela. Boy, that really
advances the discussion.
Here's my contribution:
Point one finger and you'll find five fingers
pointing back at you.
--Old Saw
Your turn.
From: authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- In FairfieldLife@ yahoogroups. com, Sal Sunshine
salsunshine@ ... wrote:
On Jan 16, 2008, at 8:27 PM, authfriend wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@ yahoogroups. com, Angela Mailander
mailander111@ wrote:
I've seen lots of buildings fall as a result of war, bombs,
and plane crashes. Never before and never after did buildings
fall as the World Trade Center buildings fell.
LOL!!
My reaction too. Would somebody tell me where Angela sees all
these falling buildings? Did she have a front-row seat during
the blitz? Are they some tourist attraction or something?
And how many of the buildings were over 100
stories tall, constructed like the World Trade
Center towers, and struck near the top by 767s?
There has been nothing like the WTC attacks
before or since, and nothing like the WTC towers
before or since, for that matter. It would be
astonishing if they *had* fallen as other
buildings have.
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: of the assailing on FFL
On Jan 17, 2008, at 9:34 AM, authfriend wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip She seems a person who has lived a life around. Fault her for that? Attack her for that? I don't believe Sal was attacking or faulting Angela for her life experience. Kind of strange that you read Sal's comment that way. No kidding. Here is the quote Doug perceives as an attack: My reaction too. Would somebody tell me where Angela sees all these falling buildings? Did she have a front-row seat during the blitz? Are they some tourist attraction or something? FWIW, my LOL had to do with the utter absurdity of Angela's extrapolating from whatever building collapses she may have seen to the collapse of the World Trade Center towers, concluding that because the latter didn't look like the former, therefore the latter must have been the result of controlled demolition. Not to mention the fact that Angela apparently finds herself in situations where buildings fall, almost on a routine basis it seems, hence my question. Lots of buildings indicates, well, lots. And yes, I remembered her stories about growing up during WWII. But her statement: I've seen lots of buildings fall as a result of war, bombs, and plane crashes. Never before and never after did buildings fall as the World Trade Center buildings fell. does not reflect some vague, hazy 60+ year-old memory, IMO, but events far more recent. Just seems pretty unusual that she frequently runs into falling buildings, that's all, and I was wondering where. Talking the third person ad hominid strawman thing about her reads beneath the belt when it seems she is in life experience and is able to draw on reflect about it too. I like that she has shown up here on FFL. Hers is often a good perspective voice to see in to things often with a lot of truth. You think that applies to her argument in this case? Or that she should get a pass on it because you've liked some of the other things she's said? Or maybe Doug is just bored and looking for attention. Sal
[FairfieldLife] Re: Hey Kids, USA is beginning to look a bit like China in the surveillance dept
Hey, aren't you the guy that wants government paid universal health care and Social Security? Bhairitu wrote: We paid it so we should get our Social Security. So, you're not opposed to a big government daddy that takes care of you. Question: Why should I be forced to pay for your medical care? But then maybe you have some twenty-something young ladies next door you'd like to make videos of. Well, do'h. Are you trying to conceal something? Yup, my bank account so you can't raid it for one. Don't put any money in banks. Instead invest your money in guns and butter. Buy lots of canned goods, plant a garden, construct a rain water retrieval system. Go solar. Build a wall around your property with observation posts. Get some Tibetan mastiffs. Don't let the vandals enter the gate. Stay awake and watchful. A Ponzi scheme is a fraudulent investment operation that involves paying abnormally high returns (profits) to investors out of the money paid in by subsequent investors, rather than from net revenues generated by any real business. It is named after Charles Ponzi. Read more: 'The Ponzi Scheme known as Social Security' Provacateur, December 23, 2007 http://tinyurl.com/2pkd9o All of the details are here, including photos and an introduction that exposes the rise and fall of Charles Ponzi. 'The Rise of Mr Ponzi' by Charles Ponzi Inkwell, 2001 http://tinyurl.com/yuebgl
[FairfieldLife] Re: Just curious: raajas?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- mainstream20016 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister no_reply@ wrote: I wonder, how many of the TMO raajas (and other big...er...wigs) are Jewish? Rona Abramson, a woman of Jewish ancestry, is a Raja Rajeshwari. In 1980, many people of Jewish ancestry held positions of leadership on the MIU campus. Over the past decades, many seem to have left the TMO. When Larry Domash was replaced by Bevan as MIU President, Physics teacher Bob Rabinowitz could hardly hold his disdain for Bevan. speaking loudly in a 'private' conversation just before a class, within earshot of many, Bob cited as evidence of Bevan's incompetence Bevan's incorrect use of the plural form of the Latin term 'forum' in the speech Bevan made the day earlier at the transition ceremony.( Bevan used the term 'forums', rather than 'fora' ). Bob's charge was that Bevan didn't even know his native language, and was therefore unqualified to lead MIU. Bob didn't remain much longer on faculty. MMY's choice of Tony Abul-Nader, a Labanese Christian? by birth, to be MMY's designated successor might have diminished enthusiasm of Jewish TMers for the TMO. The Kaplan brothers certainly had the funds to become Rajas, but they had distanced themselves from MMY before the Rajas were created. Wow! Those hook-nose Jews are in everything. FYI, I think that's a good thing, because Jews are IMO the most effective (sorry, can't find a better adjective) people on this planet.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The TMers Pledge
--- BillyG. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Richard J. Williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It is my fortune, Guru Dev, that I have been accepted to serve the Holy Tradition and spread the Light of God to all those who need it. It is my joy to undertake the responsibility of representing the Holy Tradition in all its purity as it has been given to me by Maharishi and I promise on your altar, Guru Dev, that with all my heart and mind I will always work within the framework of the Organisations founded by Maharishi. And to you, Maharishi, I promise that as a Meditation Guide I will be faithful in all ways to the trust that you have placed in me. Notes for readers: Here is the TMers pledge that all graduates of TM Teacher Training are required to sign before becoming TM teachers. Source: We weren't required to sign anything in Fuiggi; though Jerry did administer a *verbal* pledge which we agreed to. I signed this pledge one year later in Seelisburg, 1973 To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping
[FairfieldLife] Re: The TMers Pledge
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Richard J. Williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It is my fortune, Guru Dev, that I have been accepted to serve the Holy Tradition and spread the Light of God to all those who need it. It is my joy to undertake the responsibility of representing the Holy Tradition in all its purity as it has been given to me by Maharishi and I promise on your altar, Guru Dev, that with all my heart and mind I will always work within the framework of the Organisations founded by Maharishi. And to you, Maharishi, I promise that as a Meditation Guide I will be faithful in all ways to the trust that you have placed in me. Notes for readers: Here is the TMers pledge that all graduates of TM Teacher Training are required to sign before becoming TM teachers. Source: We weren't required to sign anything in Fuiggi; though Jerry did administer a *verbal* pledge which we agreed to.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Michael Chertoff is a Paranoiac
Richard J. Williams wrote: Bhairitu wrote: With delusions of grandeur: http://rawstory.com/news/afp/US_security_chief_sees_Europe_as_ma_01162008.html He needs to be removed from office and receive medical attention (as well as a few others in BushCo I can think of). Maybe you should get out and vote. But I can't see anything wrong with this statement: I see an Al-Qaeda that's evolving. I don't see any diminishment of the threat, and my concern is that we not relax and let the enemy get ahead of us. You and your congressional leaders like Bill Clinton and Al Gore were pretty relaxed when the last successful attack came on 9-11. They let the enemy get ahead of us and sneak in from Europe. Maybe it's you that should get some medical attention. You're not even making any sense anymore, Barry. ROTFL! Clinton and Gore weren't in office when 9-11 occurred. That was Bush's watch and we know how they ignored advance reports of an alleged attack. You need to get some smarts, Willy.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Just curious: raajas?
--- mainstream20016 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I wonder, how many of the TMO raajas (and other big...er...wigs) are Jewish? Rona Abramson, a woman of Jewish ancestry, is a Raja Rajeshwari. In 1980, many people of Jewish ancestry held positions of leadership on the MIU campus. Over the past decades, many seem to have left the TMO. When Larry Domash was replaced by Bevan as MIU President, Physics teacher Bob Rabinowitz could hardly hold his disdain for Bevan. speaking loudly in a 'private' conversation just before a class, within earshot of many, Bob cited as evidence of Bevan's incompetence Bevan's incorrect use of the plural form of the Latin term 'forum' in the speech Bevan made the day earlier at the transition ceremony.( Bevan used the term 'forums', rather than 'fora' ). Bob's charge was that Bevan didn't even know his native language, and was therefore unqualified to lead MIU. Bob didn't remain much longer on faculty. MMY's choice of Tony Abul-Nader, a Labanese Christian? by birth, to be MMY's designated successor might have diminished enthusiasm of Jewish TMers for the TMO. The Kaplan brothers certainly had the funds to become Rajas, but they had distanced themselves from MMY before the Rajas were created. Wow! Those hook-nose Jews are in everything. So sneaky and cunning too! To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping
[FairfieldLife] Re: Where's the heart? (MSAE , Donating to Dharma)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Predictably, Fester doesn't try to answer any of the legitimate questions I offered about the charity. Nor, does Fester offer any credentials to balance my own 20 year four-kid history with MSAEso I'm the expert in the dialog as far as I can tell. I have watched this dialog and Eg's experience has had a big effect on me. And Angela's mention in a thread that Doug linked about the former staffer without a home who could not stay with them in Utopia park had the same effect. I am very bothered by the elitism. The lack of human kindness. Some things are just plain wrong and should not be justified. There is no justification for how Eg was treated nor for how the poor woman in the woods was treated. Shameful. What bothers me more than anything about the TMO is that despite all the sweet talk, virtues such as kindness and generosity are not highly valued. If I had known that the pundits needed winter coats, I would have sent winter coats. I would never but ever have sent money.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev and his Brahman thingy
Duveyoung wrote: Every president of America has authorized murder. Thank you for this information, Mr. Ed. Almost no one disagrees with these basic facts: that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a menace; that he has weapons of mass destruction and that he is doing everything in his power to get nuclear weapons; that he has supported terrorists; that he is a grave threat to the region, to vital allies like Israel, and to the United States; and that he is thwarting the will of the international community and undermining the United Nations' credibility. - John Edwards The nations of the world kill children, take pictures of their bloody bodies in the arms of their devastated parents, and sell the graphic carnage to us as entertainment on Fox News. If today's barbarity were to somehow be nutshelled into, say, ten words, and these words were spoken 2000 years ago to the crowd watching lions eat Christians in the Roman Colosseum, there would be an audible gasp of disbelief at the sheer volume of killing being done today. Our lions, you see, have roars as loud as 500 pound bombs and can kill dozens, nay, hundreds, nay, MILLIONS in one swipe of a nuclear paw. The Roman miscreants would shit their togas if they saw us for what we are today. Kali Yuga produces a Richard type -- ain't nobody surprised. We shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe, in order to assure the survival and the success of liberty. - John F. Kennedy
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The TMers Pledge
Peter wrote: --- BillyG. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Richard J. Williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It is my fortune, Guru Dev, that I have been accepted to serve the Holy Tradition and spread the Light of God to all those who need it. It is my joy to undertake the responsibility of representing the Holy Tradition in all its purity as it has been given to me by Maharishi and I promise on your altar, Guru Dev, that with all my heart and mind I will always work within the framework of the Organisations founded by Maharishi. And to you, Maharishi, I promise that as a Meditation Guide I will be faithful in all ways to the trust that you have placed in me. Notes for readers: Here is the TMers pledge that all graduates of TM Teacher Training are required to sign before becoming TM teachers. Source: We weren't required to sign anything in Fuiggi; though Jerry did administer a *verbal* pledge which we agreed to. I signed this pledge one year later in Seelisburg, 1973 And you received a copy of what you signed?
[FairfieldLife] Re: The TMers Pledge
---For those of you unaware of the Pledge, I'm pasting it in (below). Please read, sign, and send in your pledge to Tom. Quote: In the United States, which was once thought to be a haven of religious liberty, we are the targets of unprincipled attacks in the court system by those who would line their pockets from our hard won coffers. Bigots in all branches of government, fearing the success of Scientology, are bent on our destruction through taxation and repressive legislation. We have been subjected to illegal heresy trials in two countries before prejudiced and malinformed judges who are not qualified or inclined to perceive the truth. In Canada and Germany, our Churches have been subjected to vicious raids reminiscent of the historical genocide attacks on religions that took place in `less informed' times and societies. The news media chooses to ignore the good works and miraculous successes of Scientology and instead seeks to poison public opinion through vilification of the religion and its Founder. The detractors of Scientology know full well that it is a proven, effective and workable system for freeing mankind from spiritual bondage. That is why they attack. They fear that they will somehow be threatened by a society which is more ethical, productive and humane through the influence of Scientology and Scientologists. Thus when we expand, to that degree we are attacked. Up to this day, the responsibility for defending Scientology has been on the shoulders of a desperate few. And so it will continue in large measure. Yet, in order to continue the quest for a new civilization where honest men have rights and freedoms abound, the assistance and dedication of each and every Scientologist and other men of goodwill is essential. The road may be difficult and may get worse due to the rapid decline of civilization and erosion of personal liberties at this time. But united in purpose and dedication, we shall prevail for the benefit of all mankind. We, the undersigned, pledge ourselves, without reservation or any thought of personal comfort or safety, to achieving the aims of Scientology: `A civilization without insanity, without war, where the able can prosper and honest beings can have rights, and where Man is free to rise to greater heights.' We invite Scientologists and other well intentioned people everywhere to join us in this pledge End quote. In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, abutilon108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I signed the pledge much later on and I'm quite sure the wording was different. It seems not everyone would have signed the same pledge, although as I remember what you were agreeing to was pretty much the same.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Just curious: raajas?
Peter wrote: Wow! Those hook-nose Jews are in everything. So sneaky and cunning too! You could at least wait until your patients were out of the office, Doctor, before you post comments about them on the Internet!
Re: [FairfieldLife] for Angela, WAS Re: Facing one's mortality
Yes, there is that similarity. There is also the context in which the opening
line of the whole play (Who's there?) signals the dichotomy of self/Self.
Hamlet's last words, too, fit into this: The rest is silence. We may argue
that silence is a TMO word, and it's true, that word is given special meaning
in the organization, but in the context of the whole play and in the context of
Hamlet achieving Self, after killing Polonius (who stands for small self), we
can give it a larger meaning than is usually accorded to that word in English.
The clincher is that Hamlet knows the minute he realizes that he's killed
Polonius that his own death is any time now.
- Original Message
From: feste37 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2008 10:06:44 AM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] for Angela, WAS Re: Facing one's mortality
Angela, I was struck by some echoes of Hamlet in this quotation from
Guru Dev. Hamlet is all about learning how to die (I think we agree),
and Guru Dev's He who remains ready to go, from him there will never
be sin, reminds me of Hamlet's the readiness is all speech in Act
5. And also, in the next paragraph, Guru Dev's point is very close to
Claudius' advice to Hamlet about not continuing to grieve for his
father (your father lost a father / That father lost, lost his . . . )
--- In FairfieldLife@ yahoogroups. com, do.rflex [EMAIL PROTECTED] . wrote:
GURU DEV:
Every day be ready, bedding packed.
Nobody knows what time the warrant comes. Death warrant is the
arrest warrant - for you there is no scope for appeal, all at once
it occurs ... you are to leave.
Wherever one is, at that very place you will be falling down. If you
are ready in the first place, then there will be no suffering at the
time of death.
He who remains ready to go, from him there will never be sin. Really
it is by overlooking the [existence of the] other world that one
becomes wicked and lives sinfully. If all this is remembered every day
that one day one is going to let go [die], then henceforth a man will
never lie or behave badly.
Consider this; that when father, grandfather, great grandfather is not
living then it cannot be that we will remain. When it is settled that
we will go, then really if we are ready beforehand, then the traveling
will be a pleasure; but if one is not ready then afterwards you will
be suffering. Be careful of doing any work that you regret afterwards,
at the time of going.
If you are not careful then you cannot escape falling down. The stream
of worldly existence takes a downward direction. The inclination of
the senses is opposed to a man and in opposition one again falls into
the wheel of desires, not considering the suitability. Therefore it is
always necessary to be careful.
At the time of death that which was good and bad in a man's own
lifetime all come to be remembered. That sin that has been done
remains, the fearful effects are remembered at the time of death -
much repenting and much sadness occurs. Therefore you should be
careful that no sin occurs to be regretted at the time of death.
~~ Shri Shankaracharya UpadeshAmrita kaNa 23 of 108
http://www.paulmaso n.info/gurudev/ UA_Hindi. htm#kaNa_ 23
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Re: [FairfieldLife] 911 into the fray again I go (of the assailing on FFL)
Yes, Building Seven was the clincher. The plane allegedly crashing in PA was another dead give-away. When planes crash, you don't have debris over several square miles and no bodies. That's the scenario when they're shot down (and yes, incredibly, I've seen both). When they crash, the debris might cover as much as a city block, and there would definitely be bodies and body parts. The phone call was another huge problem. But the first problem I had was just seeing the initial footage of planes hitting buildings, and then the absolutely and stunningly disproportionate way the buildings reacted to that. - Original Message From: Duveyoung [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2008 1:35:23 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] 911 into the fray again I go (of the assailing on FFL) Angela, Judy, Vaj, Angela, if you HAD to choose, which fact do you think is the MOST obvious sign of something hinky in the 911 disasters? I'd say, first would be Building 7 coming down -- and the BBC reporting it 30 minutes before it actually came down, and that official saying we pulled it. It just wasn't damaged enough, and the building was shook too hard is just an absurd reason -- given the number of bombs dropped in Iraq, you'd think every building in that country would have crashed by now from the ground shaking. Next I'd go with the hole in the Pentagon's inner ring being too rocket/missile- esque to ignore. No way the cylinder of the supposed plane would survive that many rings inwards -- the body/nose of any plane would disintegrate in the first 20 feet of impact. And the entrance hole was, well, a hole, instead of a central hole with wing caused holes on either side. Until I get a good explanation of these facts, I won't bother presenting the two dozen other oddities that support the conspiracy theory, but some of them are almost as troubling and obvious as the above. Judy and Vaj, are you still reading down this far into my nonsense? I am sincerely hoping you two can explain these two issues. Given the confidence you both seem to have in spades when debating this topic, I'm hopeful my POV can be augmented. Why? Cuz who wants to live in my reality where the government is so evil? So save me, please. That said, we have a war-monger posting here, and he's presenting himself as a priestly good guy, but he's all for killing children for oil and thinks he's sane. And this is a religious message group. What kinds of minds are out there? Do you really think that a 911 conspiracy is too far out to consider at least as possible given the kind of minds the government cultivates in the military, CIA, FBI, etc.? What would be your basis for believing that this thing couldn't be arranged and kept secret other than your faith in the goodness of most people? The governments of the world have always found folks a plenty to do their dirty work, right? Here in this lovely garden of philosophy, we have such ugliness expressed, such rage, such brokenness -- and that's just me, surely you can conceive of men-following- orders who could set up the worst kinds of slaughter without losing a night's sleep, yes? Edg --- In FairfieldLife@ yahoogroups. com, Angela Mailander mailander111@ ... wrote: My comment about falling buildings was in the context of an article by a reputable physicist which you conveniently forgot. As it happens, however, I did see lots of buildings come down--not just three or four, but most of the buildings in town and in more than one town. They came down due to bombs, fire, and airplanes crashing into them. I've also seen buildings come down due to controlled demolition. I saw two live, one in Cleveland and one in San Francisco. And I saw about ten examples on video. While comparing the two alone is by no means enough, it is the common sense beginning which anyone could have observed (and many did) especially in the context of dozens of witnesses who heard explosions prior to the impact of the planes. Bottom line is that I do not know for a fact what happened, but I do know for a fact that the official story doesn't wash, and that only adds to the suspicion. - Original Message From: authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: FairfieldLife@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2008 10:24:27 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: of the assailing on FFL --- In FairfieldLife@ yahoogroups. com, Angela Mailander mailander111@ ... wrote: If that's your view of my take on the situation, then you're right to object. Too simplistic. Angela's take on the situation: I've seen lots of buildings fall as a result of war, bombs, and plane crashes. Never before and never after did buildings fall as the World Trade Center buildings fell. It pulverized the concrete. this is not the same as the kind of rubble you get in situations in which there are no explosives planted for controlled
[FairfieldLife] Re: Michael Chertoff is a Paranoiac
Bhairitu wrote: With delusions of grandeur: http://rawstory.com/news/afp/US_security_chief_sees_Europe_as_ma_01162008.html He needs to be removed from office and receive medical attention (as well as a few others in BushCo I can think of). Maybe you should get out and vote. But I can't see anything wrong with this statement: I see an Al-Qaeda that's evolving. I don't see any diminishment of the threat, and my concern is that we not relax and let the enemy get ahead of us. You and your congressional leaders like Bill Clinton and Al Gore were pretty relaxed when the last successful attack came on 9-11. They let the enemy get ahead of us and sneak in from Europe. Maybe it's you that should get some medical attention. You're not even making any sense anymore, Barry.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The TMers Pledge
I signed the pledge much later on and I'm quite sure the wording was different. It seems not everyone would have signed the same pledge, although as I remember what you were agreeing to was pretty much the same.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: of the assailing on FFL
My comment about falling buildings was in the context of an article by a
reputable physicist which you conveniently forgot. As it happens, however, I
did see lots of buildings come down--not just three or four, but most of the
buildings in town and in more than one town. They came down due to bombs,
fire, and airplanes crashing into them. I've also seen buildings come down due
to controlled demolition. I saw two live, one in Cleveland and one in San
Francisco. And I saw about ten examples on video. While comparing the two
alone is by no means enough, it is the common sense beginning which anyone
could have observed (and many did) especially in the context of dozens of
witnesses who heard explosions prior to the impact of the planes. Bottom line
is that I do not know for a fact what happened, but I do know for a fact that
the official story doesn't wash, and that only adds to the suspicion.
- Original Message
From: authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2008 10:24:27 AM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: of the assailing on FFL
--- In FairfieldLife@ yahoogroups. com, Angela Mailander
mailander111@ ... wrote:
If that's your view of my take on the situation, then you're
right to object. Too simplistic.
Angela's take on the situation:
I've seen lots of buildings fall as a result of war, bombs, and
plane crashes. Never before and never after did buildings fall as
the World Trade Center buildings fell. It pulverized the concrete.
this is not the same as the kind of rubble you get in situations in
which there are no explosives planted for controlled demolition.
My view of Angela's take on the situation:
FWIW, my 'LOL' had to do with the utter absurdity
of Angela's extrapolating from whatever building
collapses she may have seen to the collapse of
the World Trade Center towers, concluding that
because the latter didn't look like the former,
therefore the latter must have been the result of
controlled demolition.
Angela is, of course, welcome to expand on what
she wrote and explain why my view of her take is
too simplistic.
But she won't.
Nor will she check out the links I provided to the
latest NIST findings.
Indeed, according to her:
But I do not care what you believe, nor do I really want to argue
with you about this. You will not change your mind, and I will not
change mine.
Perhaps the most blatant instance of My mind is
made up, don't confuse me with the facts that I've
yet seen on this forum.
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Just curious: raajas?
--- Richard J. Williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Peter wrote: Wow! Those hook-nose Jews are in everything. So sneaky and cunning too! You could at least wait until your patients were out of the office, Doctor, before you post comments about them on the Internet! I have a Halt Juden! sign outside my office door. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping
Re: [FairfieldLife] of the assailing on FFL
On Jan 17, 2008, at 2:25 PM, Bhairitu wrote:Ask THEM about building 7 and they'll probably change the subject.I wouldn't. Unfortunately the side of the building the media had access to after the collapse of the north WTC was largely undamaged, but the opposite side was incredibly damaged. That's what probably started all the unwarranted conspiracy theories in the first place. Tower 7 sustained major damage, including loss of it's fire protection system. And by afternoon of 9/11 the building began to bulge on the SW side where there already was a huge gash 10 stories tall! It also was making weird creaking noises. Eventually the uncontrolled fires took their toll and the already very damaged building collapsed.7 World Trade Center on fire after the collapse of the Twin Towers on 9/11As the North Tower collapsed on September 11, 2001, debris hit 7 World Trade Center, causing heavy damage to the south face of the building.[3] The bottom portion of the building's south face was heavily damaged from debris, including: damage to the southwest corner from the 8th to 18th floor, a large vertical gash on the center-bottom extending at least ten floors, and other damage as high as the 18th floor.[3] The building was equipped with a sprinkler system, but had many single-point vulnerabilities for failure. The sprinkler system required manual initiation of the electrical fire pumps, rather than being a fully automatic system. The sprinkler floor level controls had just a single connection to the sprinkler water riser, and the sprinkler system required some power for the fire pump to deliver water. Loss of power to the fire pump or other damage to the structure would have meant no functioning sprinklers. Also, water pressure was low, with little or no water to feed sprinklers.[26][27]After the north tower collapsed, some firefighters entered 7 World Trade Center to search the building. They attempted to extinguish small pockets of fire, but low water pressure hindered their efforts.[28] A massive fire burned into the afternoon on the 11th and 12th floors of 7 World Trade Center, the flames visible on the east side of the building.[29][30] During the afternoon, fire was also seen on floors 6–10, 13–14, 19–22, and 29–30.[3] At approximately 2:00 p.m., firefighters noticed a bulge in the southwest corner of 7 World Trade Center between the 10th and 13th floors which was a sign that the building was unstable and might collapse.[31] During the afternoon, firefighters also heard creaking sounds coming from the building.[32] Around 3:30 pm, given that 7 World Trade Center was unstable and would possibly collapse, FDNY Chief Daniel Nigro decided to halt rescue operations, surface removal and searches along the surface of the debris near 7 World Trade Center and evacuate the area due to concerns for the safety of personnel.[33][31] At 5:20 p.m. EDT on September 11, 2001, 7 World Trade Center collapsed. The building had been evacuated and there were no casualties associated with the collapse.In May 2002, the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) issued a report on the collapse based on a preliminary investigation conducted jointly with the Structural Engineering Institute of the American Society of Civil Engineers under leadership of Dr. W. Gene Corley, P.E. FEMA made preliminary findings that the collapse was not primarily caused by actual impact damage from the collapse of 1 WTC and 2 WTC but by fires on multiple stories ignited by debris from the other two towers that continued unabated due to lack of water for sprinklers or manual firefighting. Structural elements were exposed to high temperatures for a sufficient period of time to reduce their strength to the point of collapse.[6]NIST has released a video and still-photo analysis of 7 World Trade Center before its collapse that appears to indicate a greater degree of structural damage from falling debris than originally assumed by FEMA. Specifically, NIST's interim report on 7 World Trade Center displays photographs of the southwest façade of the building that show it to have significant damage. The report also highlights a 10-story gash in the center of the south façade, toward the bottom, extending approximately a quarter of the way into the interior.[36][3] A unique aspect of the design of 7 World Trade Center was that each outer structural column was responsible for supporting 2,000 sq ft (186 m²) of floor space, suggesting that the simultaneous removal of a number of columns severely compromised the structure's integrity.[37] Consistent with this theory, news footage shows cracking and bowing of the building's east wall immediately before the collapse, which began at the penthouse floors.[3] In video of the collapse, taken from the north by CBS News and other news media, the first visible sign of collapse is movement in the east penthouse 8.2 seconds before the north wall began to collapse, which took at least another 7 seconds.[3][38]A progress report was
Re: [FairfieldLife] of the assailing on FFL
We're talking about building 7 here Angela. On Jan 17, 2008, at 2:48 PM, Angela Mailander wrote: The only problem is that buildings don't collapse THAT WAY due to fires.
Re: [FairfieldLife] of the assailing on FFL
The only problem is that buildings don't collapse THAT WAY due to fires. - Original Message From: Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2008 1:42:00 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] of the assailing on FFL On Jan 17, 2008, at 2:25 PM, Bhairitu wrote: Ask THEM about building 7 and they'll probably change the subject. I wouldn't. Unfortunately the side of the building the media had access to after the collapse of the north WTC was largely undamaged, but the opposite side was incredibly damaged. That's what probably started all the unwarranted conspiracy theories in the first place. Tower 7 sustained major damage, including loss of it's fire protection system. And by afternoon of 9/11 the building began to bulge on the SW side where there already was a huge gash 10 stories tall! It also was making weird creaking noises. Eventually the uncontrolled fires took their toll and the already very damaged building collapsed. 7 World Trade Center on fire after the collapse of the Twin Towers on 9/11 As the North Tower collapsed on September 11, 2001, debris hit 7 World Trade Center, causing heavy damage to the south face of the building.[3] The bottom portion of the building's south face was heavily damaged from debris, including: damage to the southwest corner from the 8th to 18th floor, a large vertical gash on the center-bottom extending at least ten floors, and other damage as high as the 18th floor.[3] The building was equipped with a sprinkler system, but had many single-point vulnerabilities for failure. The sprinkler system required manual initiation of the electrical fire pumps, rather than being a fully automatic system. The sprinkler floor level controls had just a single connection to the sprinkler water riser, and the sprinkler system required some power for the fire pump to deliver water. Loss of power to the fire pump or other damage to the structure would have meant no functioning sprinklers. Also, water pressure was low, with little or no water to feed sprinklers.[26][27] After the north tower collapsed, some firefighters entered 7 World Trade Center to search the building. They attempted to extinguish small pockets of fire, but low water pressure hindered their efforts.[28] A massive fire burned into the afternoon on the 11th and 12th floors of 7 World Trade Center, the flames visible on the east side of the building.[29][30] During the afternoon, fire was also seen on floors 6–10, 13–14, 19–22, and 29–30.[3] At approximately 2:00 p.m., firefighters noticed a bulge in the southwest corner of 7 World Trade Center between the 10th and 13th floors which was a sign that the building was unstable and might collapse.[31] During the afternoon, firefighters also heard creaking sounds coming from the building.[32] Around 3:30 pm, given that 7 World Trade Center was unstable and would possibly collapse, FDNY Chief Daniel Nigro decided to halt rescue operations, surface removal and searches along the surface of the debris near 7 World Trade Center and evacuate the area due to concerns for the safety of personnel.[33][31] At 5:20 p.m. EDT on September 11, 2001, 7 World Trade Center collapsed. The building had been evacuated and there were no casualties associated with the collapse. In May 2002, the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) issued a report on the collapse based on a preliminary investigation conducted jointly with the Structural Engineering Institute of the American Society of Civil Engineers under leadership of Dr. W. Gene Corley, P.E. FEMA made preliminary findings that the collapse was not primarily caused by actual impact damage from the collapse of 1 WTC and 2 WTC but by fires on multiple stories ignited by debris from the other two towers that continued unabated due to lack of water for sprinklers or manual firefighting. Structural elements were exposed to high temperatures for a sufficient period of time to reduce their strength to the point of collapse.[6] NIST has released a video and still-photo analysis of 7 World Trade Center before its collapse that appears to indicate a greater degree of structural damage from falling debris than originally assumed by FEMA. Specifically, NIST's interim report on 7 World Trade Center displays photographs of the southwest façade of the building that show it to have significant damage. The report also highlights a 10-story gash in the center of the south façade, toward the bottom, extending approximately a quarter of the way into the interior.[36][3] A unique aspect of the design of 7 World Trade Center was that each outer structural column was responsible for supporting 2,000 sq ft (186 m²) of floor space, suggesting that the simultaneous removal of a number of columns severely compromised the structure's integrity.[37] Consistent with this theory, news footage shows cracking and bowing of the building's east wall
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Maharishi Says: Work is Finished'
Maharishi lives for a short time only unless he does one of his all too common turnabouts. Don't worry about him being in pain. The way he chose to leave makes the endorphins really kick in. It's a painless way of passing as there is less attention paid to one's body. Just honor the man for now and the classy way he decided to leave the stage and eventually his body. The hierarchy is in place but out of honor and even a time of silence for a lot of us, the new theocracy is not intruding upon us right now. When Maharishi passes, we'll know. Either in our being, by being summoned to a special meeting or by visiting CNN.com, NYTimes.com, BBC.com . Now please let us go about our business but a bit more slowly and silently during these final times of a great man. Hate him for his misdeeds or love and adore him, it matters not. He's without a doubt a great man who is leaving a great legacy so please join us in honoring him as he passes. Grown. When I googled Maharishi Mahesh Yogi news to see if anything not Movement oriented was posed, I came upon an advert for http://knappfamilycounseling.com/cults.html , a guy who helps you get over leaving a cult. I wonder if Bobby Kennedy, who leaves right after first round for the cafeteria to struggle with tubs of food belongs to a cult. I can place my attention into a cat and see and feel and enjoy someone stroking us, but this is a place I don't want to go. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mainstream20016 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Louis McKenzie ltm457@ wrote: IS THERE ANY VERIFICATION TO THE RUMOR THAT MAHARISHI AS LEFT THE BODY? Louis, The rumor of which you speak was at its height for a few hours on Jan. 12th, when MMY missed his own birthday party. But since Jan. 12th, all agree that although frail, MMY is still alive. You wrote to FFL twice on Jan. 13th, both times mentioning how much MMY has meant to you. He is still alive.He is still alive.He is still alive.
[FairfieldLife] 911 into the fray again I go (of the assailing on FFL)
Angela, Judy, Vaj, Angela, if you HAD to choose, which fact do you think is the MOST obvious sign of something hinky in the 911 disasters? I'd say, first would be Building 7 coming down -- and the BBC reporting it 30 minutes before it actually came down, and that official saying we pulled it. It just wasn't damaged enough, and the building was shook too hard is just an absurd reason -- given the number of bombs dropped in Iraq, you'd think every building in that country would have crashed by now from the ground shaking. Next I'd go with the hole in the Pentagon's inner ring being too rocket/missile-esque to ignore. No way the cylinder of the supposed plane would survive that many rings inwards -- the body/nose of any plane would disintegrate in the first 20 feet of impact. And the entrance hole was, well, a hole, instead of a central hole with wing caused holes on either side. Until I get a good explanation of these facts, I won't bother presenting the two dozen other oddities that support the conspiracy theory, but some of them are almost as troubling and obvious as the above. Judy and Vaj, are you still reading down this far into my nonsense? I am sincerely hoping you two can explain these two issues. Given the confidence you both seem to have in spades when debating this topic, I'm hopeful my POV can be augmented. Why? Cuz who wants to live in my reality where the government is so evil? So save me, please. That said, we have a war-monger posting here, and he's presenting himself as a priestly good guy, but he's all for killing children for oil and thinks he's sane. And this is a religious message group. What kinds of minds are out there? Do you really think that a 911 conspiracy is too far out to consider at least as possible given the kind of minds the government cultivates in the military, CIA, FBI, etc.? What would be your basis for believing that this thing couldn't be arranged and kept secret other than your faith in the goodness of most people? The governments of the world have always found folks a plenty to do their dirty work, right? Here in this lovely garden of philosophy, we have such ugliness expressed, such rage, such brokenness -- and that's just me, surely you can conceive of men-following-orders who could set up the worst kinds of slaughter without losing a night's sleep, yes? Edg --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My comment about falling buildings was in the context of an article by a reputable physicist which you conveniently forgot. As it happens, however, I did see lots of buildings come down--not just three or four, but most of the buildings in town and in more than one town. They came down due to bombs, fire, and airplanes crashing into them. I've also seen buildings come down due to controlled demolition. I saw two live, one in Cleveland and one in San Francisco. And I saw about ten examples on video. While comparing the two alone is by no means enough, it is the common sense beginning which anyone could have observed (and many did) especially in the context of dozens of witnesses who heard explosions prior to the impact of the planes. Bottom line is that I do not know for a fact what happened, but I do know for a fact that the official story doesn't wash, and that only adds to the suspicion. - Original Message From: authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2008 10:24:27 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: of the assailing on FFL --- In FairfieldLife@ yahoogroups. com, Angela Mailander mailander111@ ... wrote: If that's your view of my take on the situation, then you're right to object. Too simplistic. Angela's take on the situation: I've seen lots of buildings fall as a result of war, bombs, and plane crashes. Never before and never after did buildings fall as the World Trade Center buildings fell. It pulverized the concrete. this is not the same as the kind of rubble you get in situations in which there are no explosives planted for controlled demolition. My view of Angela's take on the situation: FWIW, my 'LOL' had to do with the utter absurdity of Angela's extrapolating from whatever building collapses she may have seen to the collapse of the World Trade Center towers, concluding that because the latter didn't look like the former, therefore the latter must have been the result of controlled demolition. Angela is, of course, welcome to expand on what she wrote and explain why my view of her take is too simplistic. But she won't. Nor will she check out the links I provided to the latest NIST findings. Indeed, according to her: But I do not care what you believe, nor do I really want to argue with you about this. You will not change your mind, and I will
Re: [FairfieldLife] of the assailing on FFL
Doug, all this is just an attack by a small group who bought the official 9-11 story hook, line and sinker. Ask THEM about building 7 and they'll probably change the subject. dhamiltony2k5 wrote: Oh, proly not the blitz directly. Though seems Angela probably witnessed at least the effect of allied bombing of Germany in the 1940's. Did you miss this? Post, http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/161030 Angela writes: He was a swing kid, a guy from Hamburg, about sixteen years old. Swing kids were young people in Germany who loved American music (primarily swing), resisted Hitler, and suffered the consequences. Like us, he'd walked across Germany in 45, carrying only his lute and his guitar, and living, as we did, like stray dogs. We gave him our coal cellar. Not an ideal place, but better than the street, and we were already housing thirteen other refugees in a three room flat. Anyway, the guy loved life and music, and so I had a resident music teacher early on. And he played blues. My grandfather and I both fell in love with that sound. She seems a person who has lived a life around. Fault her for that? Attack her for that?Talking the third person ad hominid strawman thing about her reads beneath the belt when it seems she is in life experience and is able to draw on reflect about it too. I like that she has shown up here on FFL. Hers is often a good perspective voice to see in to things often with a lot of truth. Been in post war China. Evidently grew up in nazi-Germany. Has lived in Utopia. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/155116 Has lived and taught on campus here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/155084 Yes, always good to fact check but the ad hominem on FFL is boring. Jai Guru Dev, -Doug in FF
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The TMers Pledge
On Jan 17, 2008, at 2:09 PM, abutilon108 wrote: I signed the pledge much later on and I'm quite sure the wording was different. It seems not everyone would have signed the same pledge, although as I remember what you were agreeing to was pretty much the same. Declaration of Loyalty to Maharishi Mahesh Yogi (to be signed by the teacher of TM) It is my privilege Maharishi, to promise to teach the Principles and Practice of Transcendental Meditation only as a teacher-employee of which accepts me as such, that I will always hold the teaching in trust for you, dear Maharishi, and that I will never use the teaching except as teacher in or other organizations founded by you for the purpose of carrying on our work of spreading Transcendental Meditation for the good of mankind; that as a teacher in I shall receive such compensation as shall be agreed between and myself in writing and except as agreed in writing I expect to receive no monetary compensation but am fully compensated by the love and joy I receive from the work by the alleviation of suffering that I may accomplish and by the wisdom I obtain, expulsate and cherish. In furtherance of this pledge I acknowledge that prior to receiving the training I had no prior knowledge of such system of Teaching; that there is no other available source where the knowledge of such training may be obtained; that such teaching has been imparted to me in trust and confidence; that such training is secret and unique. I further recognize as a Meditation Guide and Initiator I am a link in the chain of organizations that you have founded, and that to retain the purity of the teaching and movement you have laid down the wise rule that, should I ever cease to teach in or other organizations founded by you, for the purpose of teaching Transcendental Meditation, I may be restrained by appropriate process from using this secret teaching and Transcendental Meditation imparted to me. It is my fortune Guru Dev that I am being accepted to serve the Holy Tradition and spread the light of God to all those who need it. It is my joy to undertake the responsibility of representing the Holy Tradition in all its purity as it has been given to me by Maharishi and I promise on your alter Guru Dev that with all my heart and mind I will always work within the framework of the Organizations founded by Maharishi. And to you, Maharishi, I promise that as a Meditation Guide I will be faithful in all ways to the trust that you have placed in me. JAI GURU DEV
[FairfieldLife] Re: The TMers Pledge
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, abutilon108 abutilon108@ wrote: I signed the pledge much later on and I'm quite sure the wording was different. It seems not everyone would have signed the same pledge, although as I remember what you were agreeing to was pretty much the same. The later versions, like the one I signed, had the phrase that said the movement could seek financial equitable relief if you spilled any of the beans. Nice to have a little legal threat along with the spiritual stuff before you get your mantras! No copies were allowed to be kept of any legal document I ever signed in the movement. Do they still have you sign legal waivers before courses? They did something really odd right before we became teachers. They had us hold our movement file which we were not allowed to look into. But we had to hold it. It was supposed to contain every course we were on, all recommendation letters etc. I wonder what that was all about? Perhaps it was a message we have a file on you, so be cool MF. But I suspect they were following the letter rather than the spirit of some disclosure law. Very interesting, does anyone know what that was about? No idea, but it reminds me of a funny draft story from the late 60s. A fellow I knew got his draft notice and went to the Induction Center and they handed him his folder to carry with him as he walked through the physical and all the steps of being inducted into the Army. He started looking through the folder, noticing that everything in it was an original, not a copy, and slowly it dawned on him that not only was this his folder, it was *his folder*. It was the original. Taking a chance that it was not only the original copy but the only copy, he just stepped out of line, went back to the dressing room, put on his clothes, and walked out, still carrying his folder. He never heard from Selective Service again. Never. He just fell off their radar. Fortunately, this was before the era of personal computers, so I guess in his area everything was handled via paper, and no one had ever considered the possibility that someone, handed his entire folder, would just walk out with it.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The TMers Pledge
On Jan 17, 2008, at 2:06 PM, curtisdeltablues wrote: The later versions, like the one I signed, had the phrase that said the movement could seek financial equitable relief if you spilled any of the beans. Nice to have a little legal threat along with the spiritual stuff before you get your mantras! No copies were allowed to be kept of any legal document I ever signed in the movement. Do they still have you sign legal waivers before courses? Curtis, I was going to ask if you had split before they started doing that. They had you sign these things filled with leagalese that went on for about 5 pages as I recall. Very weird. And they had you sign one again before each course. Sal
[FairfieldLife] Re: The TMers Pledge
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, abutilon108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I signed the pledge much later on and I'm quite sure the wording was different. It seems not everyone would have signed the same pledge, although as I remember what you were agreeing to was pretty much the same. The later versions, like the one I signed, had the phrase that said the movement could seek financial equitable relief if you spilled any of the beans. Nice to have a little legal threat along with the spiritual stuff before you get your mantras! No copies were allowed to be kept of any legal document I ever signed in the movement. Do they still have you sign legal waivers before courses? They did something really odd right before we became teachers. They had us hold our movement file which we were not allowed to look into. But we had to hold it. It was supposed to contain every course we were on, all recommendation letters etc. I wonder what that was all about? Perhaps it was a message we have a file on you, so be cool MF. But I suspect they were following the letter rather than the spirit of some disclosure law. Very interesting, does anyone know what that was about?
[FairfieldLife] Re: The TMers Pledge
---To my great surprise, my group leader at Humboldt 70 (Tom Winquist, an initiate of MMY), already had a dossier on me in which it correctly revealed that I had been initiated into Eckankar. Whoops!a serious strike against me from the get-go. A few years later, I got fired from SIMS for talking about Guru Maharaji and other non-TMO teachers. I was also threatened with legal action by the official TMO lawyer. In my naivete, I wrongly assumed that people would embrace information in general; and then formulate some conclusion on their own. Nope...this would be like spreading knowledge of natural supplements among a group of pharmaceutical drug pushers. In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, abutilon108 abutilon108@ wrote: I signed the pledge much later on and I'm quite sure the wording was different. It seems not everyone would have signed the same pledge, although as I remember what you were agreeing to was pretty much the same. The later versions, like the one I signed, had the phrase that said the movement could seek financial equitable relief if you spilled any of the beans. Nice to have a little legal threat along with the spiritual stuff before you get your mantras! No copies were allowed to be kept of any legal document I ever signed in the movement. Do they still have you sign legal waivers before courses? They did something really odd right before we became teachers. They had us hold our movement file which we were not allowed to look into. But we had to hold it. It was supposed to contain every course we were on, all recommendation letters etc. I wonder what that was all about? Perhaps it was a message we have a file on you, so be cool MF. But I suspect they were following the letter rather than the spirit of some disclosure law. Very interesting, does anyone know what that was about?
Re: [FairfieldLife] 911 into the fray again I go (of the assailing on FFL)
On Jan 17, 2008, at 2:35 PM, Duveyoung wrote: Judy and Vaj, are you still reading down this far into my nonsense? I am sincerely hoping you two can explain these two issues. Given the confidence you both seem to have in spades when debating this topic, I'm hopeful my POV can be augmented. Why? Cuz who wants to live in my reality where the government is so evil? So save me, please. See my last post on building 7. Re: The Pentagon. Just after the tragedy of 9/11 we were contacted by the American Red Cross Disaster team regarding the disaster. My wife and 4 others were to chosen disembark for debriefing in Philadelphia. After debriefing the teams there assembled divided into three teams: ground zero, NJ and the Pentagon. My wife got the Pentagon assignment. She toured the site and saw first hand what happened. It was a plane, not a missile. The chunk of a jet engine kinda made that very clear. One the interesting thing, was the fact at such high speeds aluminum actually shatters as if it was glass into tiny pieces. Thus much of the debris that was metal was in tiny little pieces. Later that winter she received the Clara Barton award, the Red Cross' highest award, for her work there (she's an expert in the trauma treatment for disasters and often deals with children and family members who lost a loved one--or sometimes their whole family--or are just simply traumatized deeply). I could talk on this for a while, but that's enough. As a Freemasonic scholar it was not unusual to hear the wildest, strangest, most baseless claims like we've heard from Angela since she started posting here. In practically every case, they are completely baseless fear reactions, fabrications or imaginings. As a trained scientist from a family of mechanical engineers, scientists, etc. I find the engineering solutions given by the authorities to be very plausible. There is probably only one aspect of 9/11 that I agree with possibly with some conspiracy theorists, and that is flight 93. But that's another story.
[FairfieldLife] Re: of the assailing on FFL
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My comment about falling buildings was in the context of an article by a reputable physicist which you conveniently forgot. No, it wasn't in that context at all. You conveniently made that up. As it happens, however, I did see lots of buildings come down-- not just three or four, but most of the buildings in town and in more than one town. They came down due to bombs, fire, and airplanes crashing into them. I've also seen buildings come down due to controlled demolition. I saw two live, one in Cleveland and one in San Francisco. And I saw about ten examples on video. While comparing the two alone is by no means enough, Not only isn't it enough, it's entirely irrelevant. That was *my* point, which you've conveniently overlooked. it is the common sense beginning which anyone could have observed (and many did) especially in the context of dozens of witnesses who heard explosions prior to the impact of the planes. It's common sense only among those who don't have the good sense to realize how absurd a controlled-demolition scenario is on its face, and among those who haven't bothered to read the NIST's highly detailed report on its three-year investigation of the collapse, nor any of the other debunking work that's been done. As to the explosions, in the first place, eye- and ear-witness testimony as to what happened in the course of a disaster is notoriously unreliable. In the second place, the NIST found no evidence of any explosions (including no bits and pieces of controlled- demolition gear in the rubble). In the third place--most obviously--if you're going to argue controlled demolition, explosions heard *before the planes hit* would be irrelevant, since the buildings didn't collapse until much later. Explosions right before the collapses is what you'd have heard if it were controlled demolition, but there's no evidence of any such explosions. In any case, it's clear that the reports of explosions before the planes hit were simply mistaken. For more, have a look at these videos: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRCTkSJOViY Lobby and basement explosions explained http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jir7yWTroN8 Pre-Collapse Explosions Identified http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJpsxQ3UI30 John Schroeder Secondary Explosions Also: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tacYjsS-g6k Controlled Demolition Not Possible These are part of a very good series called 9/11 Debunked, which you should really watch all of. But you won't. Bottom line is that I do not know for a fact what happened, but I do know for a fact that the official story doesn't wash, and that only adds to the suspicion. No, of course you don't know that for a fact. What a silly thing to say. The fact is that *everything* either you and Bhairitu and anybody else here has proposed as evidence against the official explanation of the collapse *has been debunked* quite definitively. But all we need to know about your approach to finding out the truth is this: But I do not care what you believe, nor do I really want to argue with you about this. You will not change your mind, and I will not change mine. Very scholarly, Angela.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: of the assailing on FFL
authfriend wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Doug, all this is just an attack by a small group who bought the official 9-11 story hook, line and sinker. Ask THEM about building 7 and they'll probably change the subject. Disingenuous. We've discussed it here at some length, Bhairitu, and you know it. And you still believe the same dumbass official 9-11 story. Go figure.
[FairfieldLife] Re: 911 into the fray again I go (of the assailing on FFL)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes, Building Seven was the clincher. Angela, read what Vaj just posted about Building 7, and then debunk it for us, please. The plane allegedly crashing in PA was another dead give-away. When planes crash, you don't have debris over several square miles Except that all the debris was spread out *ahead of the plane*, in an area it had not flown over. If it had been shot down before the crash, the debris would have fallen behind where it crashed. The debris was ejected when the plane hit the ground and blown up and out in the direction the plane was heading. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ni4CzLznxjw United 93 not Shot Down and no bodies. Over 1,500 pieces of bodies were found. That's the scenario when they're shot down (and yes, incredibly, I've seen both). When they crash, the debris might cover as much as a city block, and there would definitely be bodies and body parts. Not when they crash flying 575 mph upside down at an 80 degree to the ground. The phone call was another huge problem. That phone call was made at 9:58 and lasted until 9:59. The plane was at 6,000 feet at that point. Then, before it crashed, it rose to 10,000 feet. If what the man on the phone had heard was a missile striking the plane, it's just a *teensy bit* unlikely that the plane would have been able to gain 4,000 feet in altitude *after* it had been hit. But the first problem I had was just seeing the initial footage of planes hitting buildings, and then the absolutely and stunningly disproportionate way the buildings reacted to that. But we now know it wasn't disproportionate at all. I mean, you could just as well say that Hiroshima and Nagasaki reacted disproportionately to the dropping of a couple of bombs small enough to be carried by B-29s.
[FairfieldLife] Re: 911 into the fray again I go (of the assailing on FFL)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 9-11 was just a shock and awe operation performed on the American people just like one that was done on the Iraqis. It was done to scare the shit out of the public to make them cower and give up their rights. Even it doesn't work on some of us who see right through it. 9-11 was way too big an operation for a little rag-tag terrorist group to pull off. Angela Mailander wrote: Yes, Building Seven was the clincher. The plane allegedly crashing in PA was another dead give-away. When planes crash, you don't have debris over several square miles and no bodies. That's the scenario when they're shot down (and yes, incredibly, I've seen both). When they crash, the debris might cover as much as a city block, and there would definitely be bodies and body parts. The phone call was another huge problem. But the first problem I had was just seeing the initial footage of planes hitting buildings, and then the absolutely and stunningly disproportionate way the buildings reacted to that. Get back on the Programme !
Re: [FairfieldLife] 911 into the fray again I go (of the assailing on FFL)
Vaj wrote: On Jan 17, 2008, at 2:35 PM, Duveyoung wrote: Judy and Vaj, are you still reading down this far into my nonsense? I am sincerely hoping you two can explain these two issues. Given the confidence you both seem to have in spades when debating this topic, I'm hopeful my POV can be augmented. Why? Cuz who wants to live in my reality where the government is so evil? So save me, please. See my last post on building 7. Re: The Pentagon. Just after the tragedy of 9/11 we were contacted by the American Red Cross Disaster team regarding the disaster. My wife and 4 others were to chosen disembark for debriefing in Philadelphia. After debriefing the teams there assembled divided into three teams: ground zero, NJ and the Pentagon. My wife got the Pentagon assignment. She toured the site and saw first hand what happened. It was a plane, not a missile. The chunk of a jet engine kinda made that very clear. One the interesting thing, was the fact at such high speeds aluminum actually shatters as if it was glass into tiny pieces. Thus much of the debris that was metal was in tiny little pieces. And she is an expert at discerning a missile engine (like a global hawk) and a commercial aircraft engine? How do you explain so many experienced airline pilots saying they couldn't even perform the maneuver required to fly an airliner into the Pentagon?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Could someone kindly translate Joytish speak into English
It is probably NOT necessarily the most auspicious time in history but just an auspicious time. Depending on what you are doing these auspicious times or muhurtas can occur even frequently and less frequently (every few years) if more requirements are needed. I have no idea what horoscope they're basing this on. The Secret wrote: Thank you kindly. Now I would posit that the 8 day period which spans this yagna is happening during one of the most auspicious times in recorded history. Could someone kindly reveal to us just what this period is considered in terms of Jyotish? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Surya is the Sanskrit name for the Sun. A pratyantar dasha is the third
[FairfieldLife] Re: of the assailing on FFL
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Doug, all this is just an attack by a small group who bought the official 9-11 story hook, line and sinker. Ask THEM about building 7 and they'll probably change the subject. Disingenuous. We've discussed it here at some length, Bhairitu, and you know it.
[FairfieldLife] Re: 911 into the fray again I go (of the assailing on FFL)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Until I get a good explanation of these facts, I won't bother presenting the two dozen other oddities that support the conspiracy theory, but some of them are almost as troubling and obvious as the above. Start with the series 9/11 Debunked on YouTube. Once you've watched all of them--there's quite a few--get back to us, OK?
Re: [FairfieldLife] 911 into the fray again I go (of the assailing on FFL)
9-11 was just a shock and awe operation performed on the American people just like one that was done on the Iraqis. It was done to scare the shit out of the public to make them cower and give up their rights. Even it doesn't work on some of us who see right through it. 9-11 was way too big an operation for a little rag-tag terrorist group to pull off. Angela Mailander wrote: Yes, Building Seven was the clincher. The plane allegedly crashing in PA was another dead give-away. When planes crash, you don't have debris over several square miles and no bodies. That's the scenario when they're shot down (and yes, incredibly, I've seen both). When they crash, the debris might cover as much as a city block, and there would definitely be bodies and body parts. The phone call was another huge problem. But the first problem I had was just seeing the initial footage of planes hitting buildings, and then the absolutely and stunningly disproportionate way the buildings reacted to that.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: of the assailing on FFL
As I recall it, the whole thing started just because I mentioned that article. Someone on this list posted a list of the top 25 or so most important censored articles of the year, and the physicist's article was among them. That was the context to me of this whole discussion. Ignore it if you want. I makes no difference to me what you think. - Original Message From: authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2008 2:33:44 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: of the assailing on FFL --- In FairfieldLife@ yahoogroups. com, Angela Mailander mailander111@ ... wrote: My comment about falling buildings was in the context of an article by a reputable physicist which you conveniently forgot. No, it wasn't in that context at all. You conveniently made that up. As it happens, however, I did see lots of buildings come down-- not just three or four, but most of the buildings in town and in more than one town. They came down due to bombs, fire, and airplanes crashing into them. I've also seen buildings come down due to controlled demolition. I saw two live, one in Cleveland and one in San Francisco. And I saw about ten examples on video. While comparing the two alone is by no means enough, Not only isn't it enough, it's entirely irrelevant. That was *my* point, which you've conveniently overlooked. it is the common sense beginning which anyone could have observed (and many did) especially in the context of dozens of witnesses who heard explosions prior to the impact of the planes. It's common sense only among those who don't have the good sense to realize how absurd a controlled-demoliti on scenario is on its face, and among those who haven't bothered to read the NIST's highly detailed report on its three-year investigation of the collapse, nor any of the other debunking work that's been done. As to the explosions, in the first place, eye- and ear-witness testimony as to what happened in the course of a disaster is notoriously unreliable. In the second place, the NIST found no evidence of any explosions (including no bits and pieces of controlled- demolition gear in the rubble). In the third place--most obviously--if you're going to argue controlled demolition, explosions heard *before the planes hit* would be irrelevant, since the buildings didn't collapse until much later. Explosions right before the collapses is what you'd have heard if it were controlled demolition, but there's no evidence of any such explosions. In any case, it's clear that the reports of explosions before the planes hit were simply mistaken. For more, have a look at these videos: http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=CRCTkSJOViY Lobby and basement explosions explained http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=jir7yWTroN8 Pre-Collapse Explosions Identified http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=WJpsxQ3UI30 John Schroeder Secondary Explosions Also: http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=tacYjsS- g6k Controlled Demolition Not Possible These are part of a very good series called 9/11 Debunked, which you should really watch all of. But you won't. Bottom line is that I do not know for a fact what happened, but I do know for a fact that the official story doesn't wash, and that only adds to the suspicion. No, of course you don't know that for a fact. What a silly thing to say. The fact is that *everything* either you and Bhairitu and anybody else here has proposed as evidence against the official explanation of the collapse *has been debunked* quite definitively. But all we need to know about your approach to finding out the truth is this: But I do not care what you believe, nor do I really want to argue with you about this. You will not change your mind, and I will not change mine. Very scholarly, Angela. Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
[FairfieldLife] Re: 911 into the fray again I go (of the assailing on FFL)
This is such a zombie thread like the Terminator! You think it's dead and then its baaack. Let me get this straight...no investigative journalist has been able to make themselves instantly famous and worth millions by finding out any definitive proof of a 9-11 conspiracy? And everyone in on the conspiracy has had the seamless commitment to not rat out anyone else? And these are the same assholes who elbow me out of the way getting on the metro in DC? No one wanted to become instantly famous by ratting out the others, writing a book, becoming the darling of the talk show circuit and a national hero for exposing the plot? No one bragged to their girlfriend or boyfriend after a couple of Cosmos about what a big 9-11 pimp they were? No one got cold feet and figured they had better make a deal before it all comes out? No one got religion and realized what a demonic prick they had been and how they could get right with the Lord? No changes of heart? And every single person on all the groups who investigated this for months were in on it too? Perfect secrecy was maintained by ALL of them? No politician wanted to become a national hero, no member of congress or the house with higher aspirations, none of them were able to investigate this at least as well as the conspiracy guys? Any theory that includes a whole bunch of Washington A-holes keeping their mouths shut and not throwing their co-conspirators under the bus to save their own ass and their family's, or people not wanting to become an instant millionaire hero by exposing this with real evidence, is gett'g a big yeah right from me. But despite the inability of highly motivated reporters who would love nothing more than to become the next Woodward or Bernstein with such a story, a guy putting up a Website has the inside scoop? Or are ALL the reporters IN THE WORLD in on it too? Die zombie die --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Vaj wrote: On Jan 17, 2008, at 2:35 PM, Duveyoung wrote: Judy and Vaj, are you still reading down this far into my nonsense? I am sincerely hoping you two can explain these two issues. Given the confidence you both seem to have in spades when debating this topic, I'm hopeful my POV can be augmented. Why? Cuz who wants to live in my reality where the government is so evil? So save me, please. See my last post on building 7. Re: The Pentagon. Just after the tragedy of 9/11 we were contacted by the American Red Cross Disaster team regarding the disaster. My wife and 4 others were to chosen disembark for debriefing in Philadelphia. After debriefing the teams there assembled divided into three teams: ground zero, NJ and the Pentagon. My wife got the Pentagon assignment. She toured the site and saw first hand what happened. It was a plane, not a missile. The chunk of a jet engine kinda made that very clear. One the interesting thing, was the fact at such high speeds aluminum actually shatters as if it was glass into tiny pieces. Thus much of the debris that was metal was in tiny little pieces. And she is an expert at discerning a missile engine (like a global hawk) and a commercial aircraft engine? How do you explain so many experienced airline pilots saying they couldn't even perform the maneuver required to fly an airliner into the Pentagon?
[FairfieldLife] Re: 911 into the fray again I go (of the assailing on FFL)
No one wanted to be part of the follow on to the Ruby and Oswald show? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is such a zombie thread like the Terminator! You think it's dead and then its baaack. Let me get this straight...no investigative journalist has been able to make themselves instantly famous and worth millions by finding out any definitive proof of a 9-11 conspiracy? And everyone in on the conspiracy has had the seamless commitment to not rat out anyone else? And these are the same assholes who elbow me out of the way getting on the metro in DC? No one wanted to become instantly famous by ratting out the others, writing a book, becoming the darling of the talk show circuit and a national hero for exposing the plot? No one bragged to their girlfriend or boyfriend after a couple of Cosmos about what a big 9-11 pimp they were? No one got cold feet and figured they had better make a deal before it all comes out? No one got religion and realized what a demonic prick they had been and how they could get right with the Lord? No changes of heart? And every single person on all the groups who investigated this for months were in on it too? Perfect secrecy was maintained by ALL of them? No politician wanted to become a national hero, no member of congress or the house with higher aspirations, none of them were able to investigate this at least as well as the conspiracy guys? Any theory that includes a whole bunch of Washington A-holes keeping their mouths shut and not throwing their co-conspirators under the bus to save their own ass and their family's, or people not wanting to become an instant millionaire hero by exposing this with real evidence, is gett'g a big yeah right from me. But despite the inability of highly motivated reporters who would love nothing more than to become the next Woodward or Bernstein with such a story, a guy putting up a Website has the inside scoop? Or are ALL the reporters IN THE WORLD in on it too? Die zombie die
[FairfieldLife] Re: The TMers Pledge
So your point is to underwhelm and disappoint those of us who chose not to go this route? This is so gentle and sweet compared to the way the Houston TM Center under Jane Hopson operated and with the way the Course Office used to handle applications to the Course Office. Lovely, you manage to get to a phone, you run up what was then a fantastic phone bill calling at 2:15, 2:30, 2:45, 3:00, 3:15, 4:00 and got This is the course office. Our office hours are 2 PM to 5 PM Monday through Friday, ... or the slamming of the Dome doors in your face (which was stopped because my landlady pulled out a piece of paper, wrote up a petition, was beckoned to the Star Chamber at DEVCO, told that this was very disrespectful but hanceforth anyone within slight of the door closer got in). What a letdown. I had always envisioned something more like the Schutzstaffel might have pledged in their castle. Was the truculence, nastiness and caprice of certain governors and the MUM administration the result of another pledge or just an individual power trip. OTOH, perhaps I'm reading too much into it. I learned last night that FF has no requirements for what constitutes a carpenter, electrician (my places has a floating ground, I'm sure) or even a habitable building until very recently landlords have to have the property inspected, by the very same people who don't know what a grounding rod is. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Richard J. Williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It is my fortune, Guru Dev, that I have been accepted to serve the Holy Tradition and spread the Light of God to all those who need it. It is my joy to undertake the responsibility of representing the Holy Tradition in all its purity as it has been given to me by Maharishi and I promise on your altar, Guru Dev, that with all my heart and mind I will always work within the framework of the Organisations founded by Maharishi. And to you, Maharishi, I promise that as a Meditation Guide I will be faithful in all ways to the trust that you have placed in me. Notes for readers: Here is the TMers pledge that all graduates of TM Teacher Training are required to sign before becoming TM teachers. Source: Malnak v. Yogi U.S. District Court, District of New Jersey, Civil Action No. 76-341 Kropinski v. Yogi U.S. District Court, District of Columbia, Consolidated Civil Action Nos. 85-2848-852854
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Maharishi Says: Work is Finished'
Wow. After a long hiatus from FFL it's good to see we have the same consensus as we used to have. Except now it's all so very funny because God has a glorious sense of humor and at times I get the joke. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tertonzeno tertonzeno@ wrote: ---No - he's only accomplished 2% of what Guru Dev wanted for the world. Add two zeros to that 2% and you have Maharishis accomplishment.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 911 into the fray again I go (of the assailing on FFL)
On Jan 17, 2008, at 3:38 PM, authfriend wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Until I get a good explanation of these facts, I won't bother presenting the two dozen other oddities that support the conspiracy theory, but some of them are almost as troubling and obvious as the above. Start with the series 9/11 Debunked on YouTube. Good pointer J.!
[FairfieldLife] Re: 911 into the fray again I go (of the assailing on FFL)
I favor the psychological theory that people fall for conspiracy theories because of a human tendency to try to link major events with major causes. People cannot accept that a few terrorists could cause such a disaster of such proportion in the United States.
[FairfieldLife] Re: 911 into the fray again I go (of the assailing on FFL)
Curtis, Yeah, I know, and it sucks to be me when I read your below questions that seem to point to the event being far too big an operation and involve too many folks in-the-know. My general answer to you is that it could have taken far fewer actually in the know workers guiding dozens of others to install devices that they were told were merely electric monitors but in fact were bombs with connections to a master-bomb-blowing-precisely-timed gizmo-thingamajiggy-whatchacallit-kazinski-model-666. I used your same reasoning below to finally quell my Y2K fears several months ahead of 2000 -- too many folks would know that their organization was about to fold due to computer malfunctions and would have sent the stock market into an avalanche of options, gold would have gone through the roof, many whistle blowers coming forth, etc. I'll go back to square one and do my research by looking at the debunking sites againhoping something clicks and I can get Building 7 out of my mind. It should have fallen differently if it was a natural collapse -- that's my intuition. Hunks and chunks and whole portions would have fallen first, the structure would have leaned in the direction of the bulge, listed and fell that way. But the thing just fell straight down. The guy who said we pulled it could not have meant that he'd sent in demolition experts -- cuz they would be at high risk while putting the explosive charges around the building to get it to come down in its own footprinttherefore, it was done ahead of time by EVIL MURDERERS IN POWER. Like this I keep the damned issue clanging inside my head. Stay tuned. I'm not fit to battle it out with you and Judy, but I strongly feel you guys, though deeply sincere and scholarly, have missed some big tells. I pledge to announce my mind changing if that happens. Edg --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is such a zombie thread like the Terminator! You think it's dead and then its baaack. Let me get this straight...no investigative journalist has been able to make themselves instantly famous and worth millions by finding out any definitive proof of a 9-11 conspiracy? And everyone in on the conspiracy has had the seamless commitment to not rat out anyone else? And these are the same assholes who elbow me out of the way getting on the metro in DC? No one wanted to become instantly famous by ratting out the others, writing a book, becoming the darling of the talk show circuit and a national hero for exposing the plot? No one bragged to their girlfriend or boyfriend after a couple of Cosmos about what a big 9-11 pimp they were? No one got cold feet and figured they had better make a deal before it all comes out? No one got religion and realized what a demonic prick they had been and how they could get right with the Lord? No changes of heart? And every single person on all the groups who investigated this for months were in on it too? Perfect secrecy was maintained by ALL of them? No politician wanted to become a national hero, no member of congress or the house with higher aspirations, none of them were able to investigate this at least as well as the conspiracy guys? Any theory that includes a whole bunch of Washington A-holes keeping their mouths shut and not throwing their co-conspirators under the bus to save their own ass and their family's, or people not wanting to become an instant millionaire hero by exposing this with real evidence, is gett'g a big yeah right from me. But despite the inability of highly motivated reporters who would love nothing more than to become the next Woodward or Bernstein with such a story, a guy putting up a Website has the inside scoop? Or are ALL the reporters IN THE WORLD in on it too? Die zombie die --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: Vaj wrote: On Jan 17, 2008, at 2:35 PM, Duveyoung wrote: Judy and Vaj, are you still reading down this far into my nonsense? I am sincerely hoping you two can explain these two issues. Given the confidence you both seem to have in spades when debating this topic, I'm hopeful my POV can be augmented. Why? Cuz who wants to live in my reality where the government is so evil? So save me, please. See my last post on building 7. Re: The Pentagon. Just after the tragedy of 9/11 we were contacted by the American Red Cross Disaster team regarding the disaster. My wife and 4 others were to chosen disembark for debriefing in Philadelphia. After debriefing the teams there assembled divided into three teams: ground zero, NJ and the Pentagon. My wife got the Pentagon assignment. She toured the site and saw first hand what happened. It was a plane, not a missile. The chunk of a jet engine kinda made that very clear. One the interesting thing, was the fact at such high
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 911 into the fray again I go (of the assailing on FFL)
On Jan 17, 2008, at 5:02 PM, ruthsimplicity wrote: I favor the psychological theory that people fall for conspiracy theories because of a human tendency to try to link major events with major causes. People cannot accept that a few terrorists could cause such a disaster of such proportion in the United States. It would be more interesting, for me anyways, to hear some of the psychological bases for these phenomenon. For me, it seemed more 1) a lack of common sense or sometimes people who are very naturally imaginative or afraid 2) people without an innate understanding of basic engineering tenets or physics--no different than say a person who might lack artistic ability or mechanical ability. 3) fricking paranoid people, some whom because of their lack of social skills cannot grok what happens at higher levels of society, so they fear it, as if there were naturally this cabal out there. But fear of the unknown seems central. It would be interesting to hear Dr. Pete comment on this because I feel there's something I'm missing in terms of the conspiracy theorist personality profile.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 911 into the fray again I go (of the assailing on FFL)
Well, Edg, you're in good company at least. Danny Sheehan was in Fairfield for several public talks. I asked him about 9/11, and he pretty much agrees with us. I also asked if there was any hope the truth would ever become public, and he said he thought so but people feared for their lives. - Original Message From: Duveyoung [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2008 4:04:45 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: 911 into the fray again I go (of the assailing on FFL) Curtis, Yeah, I know, and it sucks to be me when I read your below questions that seem to point to the event being far too big an operation and involve too many folks in-the-know. My general answer to you is that it could have taken far fewer actually in the know workers guiding dozens of others to install devices that they were told were merely electric monitors but in fact were bombs with connections to a master-bomb- blowing-precisel y-timed gizmo-thingamajiggy -whatchacallit- kazinski- model-666. I used your same reasoning below to finally quell my Y2K fears several months ahead of 2000 -- too many folks would know that their organization was about to fold due to computer malfunctions and would have sent the stock market into an avalanche of options, gold would have gone through the roof, many whistle blowers coming forth, etc. I'll go back to square one and do my research by looking at the debunking sites againhoping something clicks and I can get Building 7 out of my mind. It should have fallen differently if it was a natural collapse -- that's my intuition. Hunks and chunks and whole portions would have fallen first, the structure would have leaned in the direction of the bulge, listed and fell that way. But the thing just fell straight down. The guy who said we pulled it could not have meant that he'd sent in demolition experts -- cuz they would be at high risk while putting the explosive charges around the building to get it to come down in its own footprint... .therefore, it was done ahead of time by EVIL MURDERERS IN POWER. Like this I keep the damned issue clanging inside my head. Stay tuned. I'm not fit to battle it out with you and Judy, but I strongly feel you guys, though deeply sincere and scholarly, have missed some big tells. I pledge to announce my mind changing if that happens. Edg --- In FairfieldLife@ yahoogroups. com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ ... wrote: This is such a zombie thread like the Terminator! You think it's dead and then its baaack. Let me get this straight...no investigative journalist has been able to make themselves instantly famous and worth millions by finding out any definitive proof of a 9-11 conspiracy? And everyone in on the conspiracy has had the seamless commitment to not rat out anyone else? And these are the same assholes who elbow me out of the way getting on the metro in DC? No one wanted to become instantly famous by ratting out the others, writing a book, becoming the darling of the talk show circuit and a national hero for exposing the plot? No one bragged to their girlfriend or boyfriend after a couple of Cosmos about what a big 9-11 pimp they were? No one got cold feet and figured they had better make a deal before it all comes out? No one got religion and realized what a demonic prick they had been and how they could get right with the Lord? No changes of heart? And every single person on all the groups who investigated this for months were in on it too? Perfect secrecy was maintained by ALL of them? No politician wanted to become a national hero, no member of congress or the house with higher aspirations, none of them were able to investigate this at least as well as the conspiracy guys? Any theory that includes a whole bunch of Washington A-holes keeping their mouths shut and not throwing their co-conspirators under the bus to save their own ass and their family's, or people not wanting to become an instant millionaire hero by exposing this with real evidence, is gett'g a big yeah right from me. But despite the inability of highly motivated reporters who would love nothing more than to become the next Woodward or Bernstein with such a story, a guy putting up a Website has the inside scoop? Or are ALL the reporters IN THE WORLD in on it too? Die zombie die! !!! --- In FairfieldLife@ yahoogroups. com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: Vaj wrote: On Jan 17, 2008, at 2:35 PM, Duveyoung wrote: Judy and Vaj, are you still reading down this far into my nonsense? I am sincerely hoping you two can explain these two issues. Given the confidence you both seem to have in spades when debating this topic, I'm hopeful my POV can be augmented. Why? Cuz who wants to live in my reality where the government is so evil? So save me, please. See my last post on building 7. Re: The Pentagon. Just after the tragedy of 9/11 we
[FairfieldLife] Re: Could someone kindly translate Joytish speak into English
OK, I don't want to go into details. Let's drop it. Thanks. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It is probably NOT necessarily the most auspicious time in history but just an auspicious time. Depending on what you are doing these auspicious times or muhurtas can occur even frequently and less frequently (every few years) if more requirements are needed. I have no idea what horoscope they're basing this on. The Secret wrote: Thank you kindly. Now I would posit that the 8 day period which spans this yagna is happening during one of the most auspicious times in recorded history. Could someone kindly reveal to us just what this period is considered in terms of Jyotish? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: Surya is the Sanskrit name for the Sun. A pratyantar dasha is the third
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 911 into the fray again I go (of the assailing on FFL)
I think a false flag attack would be much harder for Americans to accept. It's a conspiracy theory either way. - Original Message From: ruthsimplicity [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2008 4:02:02 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: 911 into the fray again I go (of the assailing on FFL) I favor the psychological theory that people fall for conspiracy theories because of a human tendency to try to link major events with major causes. People cannot accept that a few terrorists could cause such a disaster of such proportion in the United States. Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
Re: [FairfieldLife] 911 into the fray again I go (of the assailing on FFL)
On Jan 17, 2008, at 3:49 PM, Bhairitu wrote: Vaj wrote: On Jan 17, 2008, at 2:35 PM, Duveyoung wrote: Judy and Vaj, are you still reading down this far into my nonsense? I am sincerely hoping you two can explain these two issues. Given the confidence you both seem to have in spades when debating this topic, I'm hopeful my POV can be augmented. Why? Cuz who wants to live in my reality where the government is so evil? So save me, please. See my last post on building 7. Re: The Pentagon. Just after the tragedy of 9/11 we were contacted by the American Red Cross Disaster team regarding the disaster. My wife and 4 others were to chosen disembark for debriefing in Philadelphia. After debriefing the teams there assembled divided into three teams: ground zero, NJ and the Pentagon. My wife got the Pentagon assignment. She toured the site and saw first hand what happened. It was a plane, not a missile. The chunk of a jet engine kinda made that very clear. One the interesting thing, was the fact at such high speeds aluminum actually shatters as if it was glass into tiny pieces. Thus much of the debris that was metal was in tiny little pieces. And she is an expert at discerning a missile engine (like a global hawk) and a commercial aircraft engine? How do you explain so many experienced airline pilots saying they couldn't even perform the maneuver required to fly an airliner into the Pentagon? Glory hoggs, looking to get onto a talk show or make a buck. I've heard reports of people who saw it. Apparently once they were lined up the pilot just opened up the throttle. The rest is history. I'm no expert of missiles, but I do no a jet engine when I see one. And there are just too many eyewitnesses who saw the frickin' plane.
[FairfieldLife] Perhaps Maharishi would consider this dharmic !
www.wexlerwantshearings.com
Re: [FairfieldLife] of the assailing on FFL
Thanks for your kind words. Yes, I did witness allied bombing. I was only five years old when the war was over, but my memory about events is very clear. Maybe because I recall witnessing while these things were going on. Seems weird for a five-year old to have witnessing experiences, but I did, often, and especially when things got really zooey, as they did on our trek cross-country. Saw some pretty unspeakable stuff, but was always witnessing and therefore separate from what was happening. Some have conjectured that it was dissociation. So when I was young, I thought I'd check into that, but my story didn't match up with that according to the folks I consulted. - Original Message From: dhamiltony2k5 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2008 8:47:46 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] of the assailing on FFL Oh, proly not the blitz directly. Though seems Angela probably witnessed at least the effect of allied bombing of Germany in the 1940's. Did you miss this? Post, http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/FairfieldL ife/message/ 161030 Angela writes: He was a swing kid, a guy from Hamburg, about sixteen years old. Swing kids were young people in Germany who loved American music (primarily swing), resisted Hitler, and suffered the consequences. Like us, he'd walked across Germany in 45, carrying only his lute and his guitar, and living, as we did, like stray dogs. We gave him our coal cellar. Not an ideal place, but better than the street, and we were already housing thirteen other refugees in a three room flat. Anyway, the guy loved life and music, and so I had a resident music teacher early on. And he played blues. My grandfather and I both fell in love with that sound. She seems a person who has lived a life around. Fault her for that? Attack her for that? Talking the third person ad hominid strawman thing about her reads beneath the belt when it seems she is in life experience and is able to draw on reflect about it too. I like that she has shown up here on FFL. Hers is often a good perspective voice to see in to things often with a lot of truth. Been in post war China. Evidently grew up in nazi-Germany. Has lived in Utopia. http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/FairfieldL ife/message/ 155116 Has lived and taught on campus here: http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/FairfieldL ife/message/ 155084 Yes, always good to fact check but the ad hominem on FFL is boring. Jai Guru Dev, -Doug in FF LOL!! My reaction too. Would somebody tell me where Angela sees all these falling buildings? Did she have a front-row seat during the blitz? Are they some tourist attraction or something? Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
[FairfieldLife] Let's lighten things up a bit
If you have an interest in spiritual practices, group dynamics and the wilder shores of suggestibility here're some YouTube clips which ought to make you laugh, gawp, feel smug and generally leave you scratching your head thinking What the F...!, Um, er, eh how did he do that. It's a few clips of a British magician/mentalist/entertainer called Derren Brown who is famous in the UK for mucking about with people's minds while they're not looking and leaving the cameras on to display the effects. Very wild and way cool. He's doing a US series sometime. For a laugh So you think you know the color red when you see it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yr-QtNE9k84 Has something like this ever happened to you? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-TURhK90_8 Now come on be honest! The trick is explained www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybmOlQRuaYM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybmOlQRuaYM A bit more serious You do Voodoo? Are you really sure? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lW2yKlNFFuU Always question things. Astrology, m http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=haP7Ys9ocTk We've heard that one. Catch my dreams! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1N_UHhMpzk Have your's been caught? More tricks with Crystals http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgmOJGMsrFQ (without money changing hands!) Playing with collective consciousness Group coherence can be joyful http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9G0Lg3cUJA But beware of Crowd control http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOEKdaXIEHc You will be assimilated into the group mind! Wisdom of Crowds http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZroxXmFovc Persuasion Cast your mind back, have you ever done something like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Sq-YUdq1OI ? and this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DylNVUN_3I Group dynamics are not always fun. Be afraid http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p958woXcYcI and then Be very afraid http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6GxIuljT3w If that leaves you feeling in need of upliftment then have a laugh with something very nearly plain vanilla magic http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AewhMHhCmNQ or heartwarming, my fave http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4oY0tL2cMsM I like these clips and other Derren Brown stuff because it forces people to ask questions about their beliefs. Way cool. Check out other DB clips on YouTube and wind up your friends. Enjoy Guy Fawkes
[FairfieldLife] Re: The TMers Pledge
Well, if you're going on CCP or IA, no forms to sign. Just fill out contact information. We could be going any direction now that Maharishi (whom I heard acted in a paranoid fashion at times and I've known some of his local, volunteer attorneys and they could file a writ so fast) has retired and is walking into the sunset. Indeed they have a file on you. I know that there are databases but there may still be paper files. They can quote you dates and times you said or did what. Then again the FF police have been observed to patrol campus in the evening with great interest and a place that's wide open in the town of the fruits and nuts is of special concern to the FF PD and of course to MUM. Remember, murder, trips from Dome to Mt. Pleasant, lawsuits over lawful death and over failure to prevent one of killing. This is not the Ottumwa ladies book club we're talking about. I said to the cashier, who was dressed and acted like an elder member of Campus if perhaps he belonged to the same group as I did. What group is that?, he asked. Meditator. No, not that. Well I don't hold it against you and expect you don't hold it against me. I don't but I don't like pedophiles. So while Tom Traynor assures me that the town people are us, I can assure him that there's a steamy underbelly to FF which is us and a steamy underbelly to FF which is not us and not all townies look at us with just bemusement. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, abutilon108 abutilon108@ wrote: snip Do they still have you sign legal waivers before courses? They did something really odd right before we became teachers. They had us hold our movement file which we were not allowed to look into. But we had to hold it. It was supposed to contain every course we were on, all recommendation letters etc. I wonder what that was all about? Perhaps it was a message we have a file on you, so be cool MF. But I suspect they were following the letter rather than the spirit of some disclosure law. Very interesting, does anyone know what that was about?
[FairfieldLife] The phoneme 'OM'
The phoneme 'OM' is a mantra by courtesy only and it's not found in the Gayatri or in the Rig Veda - it was added on by redactors. 'Om' is really just a quasi-morpheme, not a bija mantra at all. Bijas all came later with the development of the Tantras subsequent to the advent of sectarian Buddhism. Apparently the first reference to 'OM' in Indian literature is in the Mandukhya - but there are no bijas mentioned in the other Upanishads. The use of bija mantras is a relatively recent practice in India, considering that the Indus Valley Civilization flourished 4,000 years B.C. and taking into account that the Vedas were composed as recently as 1500 B.C. For example, the widespread use of bija mantras didn't gain wide acceptance until the advent of Lord Chaitanya in the 15th century of our era. There's no mention of bija mantras by Patanjali in the Yoga Sutras, circa 200 BC.
