[FairfieldLife] Re: Deepak Chopra: The Maharishi Years - The Untold Story: Recollections of a Fo
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter drpetersutphen@ wrote: --- authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: That was fantastic! Chopra has gained many points in my estimation for the humanness of this piece. It's a fascinating piece, but I'd recommend a salt shaker to accompany your reading, particularly with regard to the details of the medical emergency and Chopra's role in it. Why? In my personal interactions with Chopra many moons ago he always came across as a pretty straight shooter. He's just a *little* too much at the center of the story he tells, and he's just a bit too good of a story teller, too smooth. It set off my B.S. detector. But more specifically, he's been quoted in published news stories telling two competing versions of why the Beatles left Maharishi: first, that they had been using drugs and MMY threw them out; I think most of us here were surprised to hear him telling the drugs version. Some suggested he was trying to repair his relations with the movement by telling the version that reflected MMY in a better light. Whatever, he appears to be playing some kind of game, and I just don't trust him not to make up details that reflect *himself* in a better light. This pretty much sums up my impression of the man also. 3 doctors in the ambulance, and only himself, after the car reached the hospital was able to revive a dead body ? Sounds very strange.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Deepak Chopra: The Maharishi Years - The Untold Story: Recollections of a Fo
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak geezerfreak@ wrote: snip Your and Judith's remarks about Chopra's (quite open and honest IMO) article in the Huffington Post Vas you dere, Sharlie? reveal an obvious agenda against him. In the past day we've had Bevan talking about Maharishi being worshipped by all the gods in heaven as truth beyond our ken to understand and Deepak opening up about his time with MMY. I know which report I'll use Judy's salt shaker with. So, geeze, what do you make of the fact that Chopra's given two conflicting accounts about why the Beatles left the ashram? Who the hell cares? He wasn't there when the Beatles were in Rishikesh. He can only report what he was told by somebody. But he is reporting his first hand account of his taking care of MMY when he fell ill. No I wasn't there and neither were you. But he was. Yes, and the american purusha that poisened him.
[FairfieldLife] Re: So, does TM work?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, hugheshugo richardhughes103@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: What if someone claims to be doing TM but is only doing it once a day? What if they've been meditating for longer than they're supposed to? What if they've misunderstood or have forgotten the instructions? What if they're using recreational drugs? simple, easy, effortless And they should have given up drugs if the claims about TM are true. I certainly did, by the end of the first week. Also, the TMO practises selection bias when setting up an experiment, they simply choose from a pool of people who report good experiences (If offered to take part in experiments once) it's bad science and it's just one of the things that alienates them from the mainstream. That may well be, but it's beside the point I was making. Always a point worth making though. I think I know where you got that idea from. If you'll look again, you'll find they're saying only 50 or so of the papers that have been published are *valid* scientific studies by their criteria, not that only 50 studies have ever been published. No I didn't get it from there but it's pretty much common knowledge that the vast majority of TM research is never considered because of poor quality controls, sad but true. Did you ever read this http://www.susanblackmore.co.uk/Articles/new%20scientist%201991.htm She is a genuine scientist in that she is waiting for all the data to be collected before she tries to make a conclusion. I'm half way through her latest book about consciousness, If I find the quote I need I'll scan it in. I just can't be arsed to go searching the web for it right now. In the same piece, they acknowledge that something like 150 studies have been published in peer- reviewed journals, and that 430 studies have been published total. But they're going by the Collected Works volumes, which don't have the latest studies, so the 600 figure the TMO claims may be accurate. It's not accurate, unless you include published in the collected papers book.
[FairfieldLife] 'Future of Maharishi's Movement'
By Madhusree Chatterjee Allahabad, Feb 14 (IANS) Setting aside speculation that Maharishi Mahesh Yogi's spiritual movement may lose steam after his death, his followers say that it will only grow stronger and has in place a well-knit system of kingship. The Maharishi, who introduced transcendental meditation to the West as a mechanism to relieve stress and to hone the power of the mind in 1959, died in his retreat at Vlodrop, the Netherlands, Feb 5. He was cremated in Allahabad in Uttar Pradesh Monday. The seer, who gained fame in the 1960s as the guru of the Beatles and has over five million disciples worldwide, was an all-pervasive figure, sometimes even larger than life. It kindled fears that after his demise, the movement might suffer. His blessings will always be with us. How can the movement suffer? The Maharishi has trained so many administrators who can steer the movement to greater heights. He had prepared the ground for heaven on earth or Ram Rajya (rule of justice) before his death. There is no way the expansion of the movement can be halted. It will only grow stronger, a Canadian follower christened Raja Paul told IANS. Spiritual pundits attribute the momentum and continuity of the movement to the unique organisational structure the seer had put in place. A believer in Vedic monarchy of ancient India wherein the king was hailed as god's representative on earth, the Maharishi created a 48-member governing body with 35 rajas or nation heads, in-charge of seven countries each. There is also a global council of 13 ministers handling portfolios as diverse as Vedic education, science and technology, health, agriculture, law and order, and defence without arms to manage Maharishi's enterprises in 192 nations. They would be led by Tony Abu Nadar who was crowned Maharajadhiraj Raja Ram. He also set up a 24-member core group to look after women's empowerment and education in consonance with Vedic traditions. Since the Maharishi retreated into silence last year after retiring from active organisational work, the 48-member governing body has been gradually taking charge of the movement. Kingship is integral to the Maharishi's movement and perhaps the key to its future momentum, said Mahant Narayan Giri, president of the Uttar Pradesh unit of the Hindu Mahasabha. If he has managed to inculcate the ethics and concept of Ram Rajya among his followers, they will do us a world of good, the Hindu leader said. Members of the organisation feel the same. The ancient Vedic kings stood for peace, prosperity and justice. But the kings lost their relevance because they failed in their duties. We want people to repose faith in Vedic kingship. Our kings will act as peacemakers in a strife-torn world by promoting meditation and traditional Indian knowledge, said an aide of the Maharishi. People have a natural tendency to owe allegiance to a king, he added. Devotees say they continue to connect with their spiritual guru despite his demise. Said Gary Nelson, a teacher of transcendental mediation from Australia: He has been freed from his earthly trappings. The Maharishi is in transcendence now and I empathise with him better. My relationship with him is transcendental now, on a higher plane of universality. I would not be true if I said he is still here, but when people meditate for some time, the physical personality ceases to attract. It's all in the mind then. The Maharishi was pure 'Brahmn' (universal consciousness). Moreover, he has left behind a unique structure that will carry on his mission under the able guidance of Maharaja Ram. Fellow 'meditator' Viola Kuhl from Germany agreed: He has trained so many people, including Raja Ram. I feel full as if the Maharishi's consciousness is expanding in all of us. (Madhusree Chatterjee can be contacted at' ); document.write( addy_text69326 ); document.write( '' ); //--\n[EMAIL PROTECTED]' ); //-- This e-mail address is being protected from spam bots, you need JavaScript enabled to view it' ); //-- ) - Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Deepak Chopra: The Maharishi Years - The Untold Story: Recollections of a Fo
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak geezerfreak@ wrote: snip Your and Judith's remarks about Chopra's (quite open and honest IMO) article in the Huffington Post Vas you dere, Sharlie? reveal an obvious agenda against him. In the past day we've had Bevan talking about Maharishi being worshipped by all the gods in heaven as truth beyond our ken to understand and Deepak opening up about his time with MMY. I know which report I'll use Judy's salt shaker with. So, geeze, what do you make of the fact that Chopra's given two conflicting accounts about why the Beatles left the ashram? Who the hell cares? He wasn't there when the Beatles were in Rishikesh. He can only report what he was told by somebody. But he is reporting his first hand account of his taking care of MMY when he fell ill. No I wasn't there and neither were you. But he was. Geez, Chopra was well after my time in the TMO and, if I remember correctly, after yours as well. Therefore I have no feelings about him one way or another, and I've always wondered about the strong anti-Chopra feelings I've seen expressed on groups like this one. Some of the things said by the very people who are now tempering their previous demonizations of Chopra because he's recently praised Maharishi have been in the past nothing short of slander. What I finally decided was at the cause of all the anger and obvious attempts to demonize Chopra and convince others that something was wrong with him or bad or devious about him is that HE WALKED AWAY FROM MAHARISHI. For some people, especially those who never became TM teachers or became involved with the TMO them- selves, there is this ideal they have in their heads of what a disciple should be. He should basically just have no life and DO WHAT HE IS TOLD by his master. THEY have never done this, of course. Hell, they never even went to the trouble to learn how to teach TM. But they consistently look down on the people who were at one time put in front of the public by Maharishi and who then blew him off and walked away and chose their own lives over his. Why? I think they try to demonize those who made their own decisions and chose to live their own lives because they're trying to suggest that THEY would have done a better job of being a true disciple, of hitting one out of the park as a true devotee. Which is hilarious, because they were never even in the ball game. Bottom line for me with regard to Chopra is that he seems balanced (if a bit publicity-seeking to sell his books), whereas the people trying so desperately to rag on him are not. I don't know him at all, but the things he says sound sane and the things his detractors say do not.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Deepak Chopra: The Maharishi Years - The Untold Story: Recollections of a Fo
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Geez, Chopra was well after my time in the TMO and, if I remember correctly, after yours as well. Therefore I have no feelings about him one way or another, and I've always wondered about the strong anti-Chopra feelings I've seen expressed on groups like this one. Some of the things said by the very people who are now tempering their previous demonizations of Chopra because he's recently praised Maharishi have been in the past nothing short of slander. What I finally decided was at the cause of all the anger and obvious attempts to demonize Chopra and convince others that something was wrong with him or bad or devious about him is that HE WALKED AWAY FROM MAHARISHI. For some people, especially those who never became TM teachers or became involved with the TMO them- selves, there is this ideal they have in their heads of what a disciple should be. He should basically just have no life and DO WHAT HE IS TOLD by his master. THEY have never done this, of course. Hell, they never even went to the trouble to learn how to teach TM. But they consistently look down on the people who were at one time put in front of the public by Maharishi and who then blew him off and walked away and chose their own lives over his. Why? I think they try to demonize those who made their own decisions and chose to live their own lives because they're trying to suggest that THEY would have done a better job of being a true disciple, of hitting one out of the park as a true devotee. Which is hilarious, because they were never even in the ball game. Bottom line for me with regard to Chopra is that he seems balanced (if a bit publicity-seeking to sell his books), whereas the people trying so desperately to rag on him are not. I don't know him at all, but the things he says sound sane and the things his detractors say do not. Still speculating because this phenomenon is so strange to me, and I'm still trying to figure it out. WHY are so many people so ANGRY at Chopra, enough to systematically try to demonize him? I think it has a lot to do with the scenario he described in this latest Huffington Post article. Maharishi clearly was jealous of Chopra because people were paying attention to him. I get the feeling that what's *really* going on with the detractors is that they feel the same jealousy. Chopra's sin is that he didn't play the game and pretend that everything was always about Maharishi. He didn't fawningly suggest that everything I am I owe to my master the way these people want him to. He took credit for his own accom- plishments. He reserved the right to live his own lifestyle and make his own decisions. And for some reason that's BAD in their eyes. It's like for them the way that a devotee should act is to constantly give all the credit for everything they've ever done in their lives to the master. In other words, play the toady game the way Bevan always did. Chopra never did that, so that makes him some- one who detracts from the all-importantness of Maharishi Mahesh Yogi. And we can't have that. Better suggest there is something wrong with him, or that he's a liar...
[FairfieldLife] 'David Speaks...
Just recently, the Maharishi , founder of the amazing technique transcendental meditation, left this plane and is now circulating the galaxies .Im sure with the same joy he gave us while in physical form here. I forget the actual year that I was introduced and trained in tm, but I believe it was in the late 1980s or early 1990s. Since that time, hundreds of studies on the power of this meditation technique have proven its effectiveness on healing the mind and body. I still use tm on an almost daily basis to help me in every area of my life. In 1996, I had the blessing of interviewing the Maharishi on the 40th anniversary of the founding of tm ..as a matter of fact, my national radio show , David Essel Alive was the only media outlet in the USA chosen to interview him for this occasion. And it was amazing. The one thing that stood out through this interview, which he did from his home in Holland, was his absolute joy an almost giddy state that never wavered regardless of what type of question I asked him during the hour long interview . He was boundless joy..I was laughing with him the entire time .and will always be grateful for the chance to engage with one of the most amazing men I have ever had the chance to talk with. From this moment forward, before each tm session I do, I will smile and remember the joy he left within me. Thank you . Slow down. Love, Peace, David www.talkdavid.com - Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Deepak Chopra: The Maharishi Years - The Untold Story: Recollections of a Fo
Towards the end MMY was clearly irritated by Chopra - I remember seeing a video where Chopra was speaking to the camera and MMY was in the background and clearly noticeable were subtle side to side movements of his jaw or face. Basically unlike Hagelin who talks about Physics in a way MMY couldn't but always deferred to MMY when it came to any pronouncement that related to Vedic/Hindu scriptures, Chopra was a better public speaker than MMY and HE ALSO talked with relative authority about Hindu cuilture (as far as Westerners were concerned). To cap it all not only was he a medical doctor trained in the West but now seemed to take on the mantle of Ayurvedic expert. So MMY was definitely getting resentful about that. However I remember before the rift an Initiator predicting it simply because his latter books and tapes amounted to a Chopra version of Ayurveda, health, spirituality - that he was also introducing more superficial thinking/feeling practices - mood making - and that was bound to cause a rift. I was surprised to hear these views as at the time Chopra was by far the most impressive exponenet of TM MMY's philosophy. But then it happened about 6 months later.. And I was told that MMY said to Chopra much the same thing he'd said to Ravi Shankar - if you need to teach go ahead but we must go our separate ways.. Interesting that both Chopra Ravi Shankar featured in commentaries about MMY after his death. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: Geez, Chopra was well after my time in the TMO and, if I remember correctly, after yours as well. Therefore I have no feelings about him one way or another, and I've always wondered about the strong anti-Chopra feelings I've seen expressed on groups like this one. Some of the things said by the very people who are now tempering their previous demonizations of Chopra because he's recently praised Maharishi have been in the past nothing short of slander. What I finally decided was at the cause of all the anger and obvious attempts to demonize Chopra and convince others that something was wrong with him or bad or devious about him is that HE WALKED AWAY FROM MAHARISHI. For some people, especially those who never became TM teachers or became involved with the TMO them- selves, there is this ideal they have in their heads of what a disciple should be. He should basically just have no life and DO WHAT HE IS TOLD by his master. THEY have never done this, of course. Hell, they never even went to the trouble to learn how to teach TM. But they consistently look down on the people who were at one time put in front of the public by Maharishi and who then blew him off and walked away and chose their own lives over his. Why? I think they try to demonize those who made their own decisions and chose to live their own lives because they're trying to suggest that THEY would have done a better job of being a true disciple, of hitting one out of the park as a true devotee. Which is hilarious, because they were never even in the ball game. Bottom line for me with regard to Chopra is that he seems balanced (if a bit publicity-seeking to sell his books), whereas the people trying so desperately to rag on him are not. I don't know him at all, but the things he says sound sane and the things his detractors say do not. Still speculating because this phenomenon is so strange to me, and I'm still trying to figure it out. WHY are so many people so ANGRY at Chopra, enough to systematically try to demonize him? I think it has a lot to do with the scenario he described in this latest Huffington Post article. Maharishi clearly was jealous of Chopra because people were paying attention to him. I get the feeling that what's *really* going on with the detractors is that they feel the same jealousy. Chopra's sin is that he didn't play the game and pretend that everything was always about Maharishi. He didn't fawningly suggest that everything I am I owe to my master the way these people want him to. He took credit for his own accom- plishments. He reserved the right to live his own lifestyle and make his own decisions. And for some reason that's BAD in their eyes. It's like for them the way that a devotee should act is to constantly give all the credit for everything they've ever done in their lives to the master. In other words, play the toady game the way Bevan always did. Chopra never did that, so that makes him some- one who detracts from the all-importantness of Maharishi Mahesh Yogi. And we can't have that. Better suggest there is something wrong with him, or that he's a liar...
[FairfieldLife] Trotaka Syndrome (was Re: Deepak Chopra: The Maharishi Years)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, claudiouk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Towards the end MMY was clearly irritated by Chopra - I remember seeing a video where Chopra was speaking to the camera and MMY was in the background and clearly noticeable were subtle side to side movements of his jaw or face. Basically unlike Hagelin who talks about Physics in a way MMY couldn't but always deferred to MMY when it came to any pronouncement that related to Vedic/Hindu scriptures, Chopra was a better public speaker than MMY and HE ALSO talked with relative authority about Hindu cuilture (as far as Westerners were concerned). To cap it all not only was he a medical doctor trained in the West but now seemed to take on the mantle of Ayurvedic expert. So MMY was definitely getting resentful about that. However I remember before the rift an Initiator predicting it simply because his latter books and tapes amounted to a Chopra version of Ayurveda, health, spirituality - that he was also introducing more superficial thinking/feeling practices - mood making - and that was bound to cause a rift. I was surprised to hear these views as at the time Chopra was by far the most impressive exponenet of TM MMY's philosophy. But then it happened about 6 months later.. And I was told that MMY said to Chopra much the same thing he'd said to Ravi Shankar - if you need to teach go ahead but we must go our separate ways.. Interesting that both Chopra Ravi Shankar featured in commentaries about MMY after his death. I find it all fascinating because neither Chopra nor Shankar were ever around during the time I was. They were visible to and important to a whole new generation of TMers, and I know nothing about either one of them. Therefore it is curious to see the anger and demonization aimed at both of them by TMers. And NOW, after they've said something gracious about Maharishi after his death, the fawning over them being displayed by some of the *same* people (like Nabby) who previously couldn't say enough bad things about them. In trying to figure it out, I'm coming more and more to believe that the anger and the demonizations had their root in a model held up by Maharishi as the ideal of how one should deal with him and regard him -- Trotaka. It was one of his favorite stories to tell -- the not-too-bright devotee whose greatest accomplishment was *being* a total devotee. Trotaka (and by extension the ideal student) had no life of his own. He made no decisions on his own. He just did everything he was told, instantly, as if the orders had come from God himself. In this model, the ideal disciple never takes any credit for any of his own accomplishments or ideas. They are always turned over to the master. They were inspired by him, or actually caused by him mystically. *Everything* they do is as a result of the all-powerful, all-important master. And, at the end of 50 years, who is left in charge of the TM movement? Those who bought into this model the most, that's who. Bevan Morris -- the ultimate toady, who quite obviously has no life or thoughts outside of Maharishi. Hagelin, who threw away a potentially brilliant career and pretty much all of his credibility to act like the Trotaka ideal. King Tony, who refuses now to even *speak*, possibly for fear of being perceived as having ideas of his own. I guess there is nothing wrong with this IF you believe in the Trotaka model AS the ideal. Me, I don't. I think it's a model for a certain *type* of seeker, the type of person who has so little going for them personally that they have to identify with someone else -- their master -- in order to even *have* a personality. That, to me, describes Bevan perfectly. But it *doesn't*, to me, describe the perfect disciple. To me, that would be the person who has his own ideas and thoughts and is not afraid to express them, espec- ially if he perceives the master as possibly taking a wrong turn or making a less-than-brilliant decision. I would have respect for the person who occasionally *stood up to* Maharishi and suggested that there might be a better way of doing things than the one he was making a pronouncement about. Obviously, I would never have risen to prominence in the TM movement. :-) I would have been weeded out within a year of the time I left on my own, because I was seeing the TM movement take what I considered a wrong direction, one that would bring it to ruin, and I would not have been able to keep my mouth shut and go along with it. I would have had to say something. And, as a result, I would have been toast. At the end of it all, I wish that more of the students who rose to the position of having Maharishi's ear had taken advantage of it to give him more real feedback, instead of being Trotaka-like Yes Men. I further wish that Maharishi had had the humility to be able to accept them AS students while doing that, and not sent them away in disgrace. And I wish that he had
[FairfieldLife] Re: So, does TM work?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, hugheshugo richardhughes103@ wrote: do you think the Dalai lama looks that different to an independent observer? Actually, yes, I do. He gets a much different type of publicity. He's a widely respected public figure. You're quite right here no-one outside the TMO takes Maharishi seriously, and who do we have to blame for that? Perhaps if the Dalai Lama made claims that his meditation could lower crime rates, improve the weather, end war, make nations invincible and bring about a new age of enlightenment etc etc, then maybe he could achieve such ridicule and obscurity. MMY passing away could be a new start for the TMO, ditch the stupid crowns and maharamawhatever titles, lower the price and just basically get real. It can't be that hard to convince people there is something special going on if that indeed is the case.
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'David Speaks...
wow, i enjoyed discovering this guy via your post, he is everything the maharishi wanted to be: check out his motivational video on thinking big on this page: [click the view video link] http://www.eaglestalent.com/speaker-bureau,465,presenter,Health-Fitness-Lifestyle-Life-Balance-Motivation-David-Essel,speaker.asp# aka: http://tinyurl.com/333t3z its outrageous, as real estate motivators should be, but also its fun to listen to. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robert [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just recently, the Maharishi , founder of the amazing technique transcendental meditation, left this plane and is now circulating the galaxies �.I�m sure with the same joy he gave us while in physical form here. I forget the actual year that I was introduced and trained in tm, but I believe it was in the late 1980�s or early 1990�s. Since that time, hundreds of studies on the power of this meditation technique have proven it�s effectiveness on healing the mind and body. I still use tm on an almost daily basis to help me in every area of my life. In 1996, I had the blessing of interviewing the Maharishi on the 40th anniversary of the founding of tm�..as a matter of fact, my national radio show , David Essel Alive was the only media outlet in the USA chosen to interview him for this occasion. And it was amazing. The one thing that stood out through this interview, which he did from his home in Holland, was his absolute joy�an almost �giddy� state that never wavered regardless of what type of question I asked him during the hour long interview . He was boundless joy..I was laughing with him the entire time �.and will always be grateful for the chance to engage with one of the most amazing men I have ever had the chance to talk with. From this moment forward, before each tm session I do, I will smile and remember the joy he left within me. Thank you . Slow down. Love, Peace, David www.talkdavid.com
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: February 11, 2008
From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Duveyoung Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 1:12 AM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: February 11, 2008 Follow the money. Maharishi didn't want to pay to heat the water. I think there was a power outage, perhaps due to construction, and probably his suite had an electric water heater, as I recall that the elevators weren’t working and people had to carry the buckets of water up many flights of stairs. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.4/1277 - Release Date: 2/13/2008 8:00 PM
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Deepak Chopra: The Maharishi Years - The Untold Story: Recollections of a Fo
From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of nablusoss1008 Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 2:18 AM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Deepak Chopra: The Maharishi Years - The Untold Story: Recollections of a Fo Yes, and the american purusha that poisened him. The story didn’t identify the suspect as an American Purusha. Just a Westerner. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.4/1277 - Release Date: 2/13/2008 8:00 PM
[FairfieldLife] Re: Deepak Chopra: The Maharishi Years - The Untold Story: Recollections of a Fo
I blame Chopra for that as much as anyone. Chopra is the one who decided to become the media darling rather than sit at the feet of the guru. The entire thing with the rajas and whatnot is obviously a direct response to Chopra. You can't get on Oprah wearing a silly- looking crown. Lawson Lawson, at the risk of sounding judgemental, you started off so promising, and more balanced. I thought, this guy is posting from a new angle. Now it sounds like it's back to the old Lawson. Well at least now we know Maharishi's thinking about the Rajas and the uniform. Make them a laughing stock. That M thinks of everything!
[FairfieldLife] Re: Deepak Chopra: The Maharishi Years - The Untold Story: Recollections of a Fo
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter drpetersutphen@ wrote: --- authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: That was fantastic! Chopra has gained many points in my estimation for the humanness of this piece. It's a fascinating piece, but I'd recommend a salt shaker to accompany your reading, particularly with regard to the details of the medical emergency and Chopra's role in it. Why? In my personal interactions with Chopra many moons ago he always came across as a pretty straight shooter. He's just a *little* too much at the center of the story he tells, and he's just a bit too good of a story teller, too smooth. It set off my B.S. detector. But more specifically, he's been quoted in published news stories telling two competing versions of why the Beatles left Maharishi: first, that they had been using drugs and MMY threw them out; I think most of us here were surprised to hear him telling the drugs version. Some suggested he was trying to repair his relations with the movement by telling the version that reflected MMY in a better light. Whatever, he appears to be playing some kind of game, and I just don't trust him not to make up details that reflect *himself* in a better light. This pretty much sums up my impression of the man also. 3 doctors in the ambulance, and only himself, after the car reached the hospital was able to revive a dead body ? Sounds very strange. I think Deepak's credibility in this story comes down to this: Is it true what he says about Maharishi being incommunicado with the public (i.e., us, we the meditators) for such a long period of time? This is what Deepak claims: In all, Maharishi was out of circulation for almost a year; few in the TM movement knew where he was... Now, I'm not enough of a TMO historian to know whether about a year is true; but if it is, then I say that puts Deepak in the driver's seat when it comes to credibility and the TMO at the back of the bus. Does anyone here remember that period of time and, if so, what the TMO was saying about where Maharishi was and what he was doing?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Deepak Chopra: The Maharishi Years - The Untold Story: Recollections of a Fo
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Behalf Of nablusoss1008 Yes, and the american purusha that poisened him. The story didn't identify the suspect as an American Purusha. Just a Westerner. The very assumption that there *was* a poisoning is the part of Chopra's story that sounds weird to me. He's a doctor; how could he even suggest such a thing if no one ever did the tests to support that theory? How? Easy. It makes them feel IMPORTANT to think that Maharishi was so important that someone wanted to poison him. It's the same mindset that wants to believe that the TM movement was heavily infiltrated with CIA agents. It's also the mindset that cannot cope with everyday explanations for the everyday things that happened to Maharishi. He got sick. People *get* sick; that's just what happens. These bodies don't come with much of a warranty. But in their eyes, Maharishi couldn't *just* get sick. There had to be some *reason* why he got sick, and because THEY want to feel important, and as if they're hanging with the most important person in the universe, 9 times out of 10 the reason they come up with is someone wishing to do Maharishi or the TM movement harm. Someone once said that paranoia is the first refuge of those whose faith has grown shaky but who cannot admit it. I think that's what's happening with those whose FIRST impulse is to come up with paranoia fantasies about the cause of everyday events. In other words, despite the fact that I feel that a lot of Chopra's story was true, his suggestion that Maharishi was poisoned sounds like Just Another Self Importance Fantasy to me. If it HAD been true, as a doctor he should have been the one asking for tests to confirm it.
[FairfieldLife] Re: February 11, 2008
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Maharishi prescribed cold baths on my six month course in Courcheval. He said he wanted to turn us into yogis in six months. People asked him whether they could get used to it by making the water colder by degrees, get in slowly, etc. Maharishi said to just be brave and plunge in. That mountainwater was cold! I did the cold water thing primarily in Arosa. I'm gonna bet that the cold water in Arosa, was colder than it was in Courcheval. BTW, I was also on the 6 mo. course in Courcheval. For some reason, I don't recall doing the cold water thing there. I do remember ODing on honey. I got in trouble for that from M himself. Enimas were big on that course as well. We had some excellent food as I recall in Courcheval. I can't remember if Mike_ was the chef there, or not. I remember he got discouraged when the diet was switched to something more bland. I know he was the chef in Arosa. Totally awesome food until Greg Wilson and friends basically destoyed the course. Maybe Courcheval was the best course ever for me.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Poison and gurus
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Seems to be a trend: http://www.anet.net/users/yasoda/web/ Add to the perennial unsolved mysteries. Who put the overalls in Mrs. Murphy's chowder?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: February 11, 2008
There's a very good reason why Buddha prescribed a middle path! I did all that nonsense too on courses and on my own. It's ridiculous and does nothing for your evolution. --- lurkernomore20002000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Maharishi prescribed cold baths on my six month course in Courcheval. He said he wanted to turn us into yogis in six months. People asked him whether they could get used to it by making the water colder by degrees, get in slowly, etc. Maharishi said to just be brave and plunge in. That mountainwater was cold! I did the cold water thing primarily in Arosa. I'm gonna bet that the cold water in Arosa, was colder than it was in Courcheval. BTW, I was also on the 6 mo. course in Courcheval. For some reason, I don't recall doing the cold water thing there. I do remember ODing on honey. I got in trouble for that from M himself. Enimas were big on that course as well. We had some excellent food as I recall in Courcheval. I can't remember if Mike_ was the chef there, or not. I remember he got discouraged when the diet was switched to something more bland. I know he was the chef in Arosa. Totally awesome food until Greg Wilson and friends basically destoyed the course. Maybe Courcheval was the best course ever for me. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Deepak Chopra: The Maharishi Years - The Untold Story: Recollections of a Fo
--- claudiouk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: .. And I was told that MMY said to Chopra much the same thing he'd said to Ravi Shankar - if you need to teach go ahead but we must go our separate ways.. Interesting that both Chopra Ravi Shankar featured in commentaries about MMY after his death. Ravi Shankar actually wanted to teach what he had cognized while in silence (Sudashan Kriya) within the structure of the TMO. MMY told him to teach on his own. He didn't leave the TMO for over a year after that. While I see Chopra and SSRS as very different from one another (one gives interesting talks and the other functions as a guru)both have greatly contributed to to the rising spirituality on the planet. Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
[FairfieldLife] Re: Deepak Chopra: The Maharishi Years - The Untold Story: Recollections of a Fo
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, lurkernomore20002000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I blame Chopra for that as much as anyone. Chopra is the one who decided to become the media darling rather than sit at the feet of the guru. The entire thing with the rajas and whatnot is obviously a direct response to Chopra. You can't get on Oprah wearing a silly-looking crown. Lawson, at the risk of sounding judgemental, you started off so promising, and more balanced. I thought, this guy is posting from a new angle. Now it sounds like it's back to the old Lawson. Well at least now we know Maharishi's thinking about the Rajas and the uniform. Make them a laughing stock. That M thinks of everything! Speaking up for Lawson, I for one am majorly impressed at the restraint he's been showing in the number of posts he's been making. I appreciate that, especially knowing that his ADHD makes it difficult. Well done. That said, often the content of the posts is often the same as it was before. :-) I think that Lawson's baseline assumption above reinforces the post I made earlier today about the Trotaka Syndrome. Lawson assumes that Chopra's place WAS to sit at the feet of the guru and take no credit for accomplishments that were clearly his and not Maharishi's. What he can't forgive is that Chopra didn't live down to his fantasy of what a student of a spiritual teacher is supposed to be like.
[FairfieldLife] Deepak, Maharishi, and doctor-patient confidentiality
Dr. Phil was recently accused of breaking doctor-patient confidentiality by speaking to the news media about a patient, Britney Spears: http://tinyurl.com/yp5fb2 Deepak Chopra is talking publicly about a former patient, Maharishi Mahesh Yogi. Indeed, he describes himself as his doctor in the piece found at: http://tinyurl.com/23lanw This is what Chopra says from the above cited piece: It was true that after his medical crisis he refused to discuss his health and took pains to indicate that where once I had been his physician, now I was to consider myself in the former position of disciple. So Chopra was Maharishi's physician. But in his piece he discloses personal information about Maharishi of both a medical and personal nature, both of which are protected information. The problem is that the doctor-patient privilege extends even after death. The following is from http://epic.org/privacy/privileges/ : ...only the client can waive the privilege and the privilege survives the client. Therefore, even after a client's death, an attorney can not reveal the information without the prior approval of the client. This was recently articulated by the United States Supreme Court in Swidler Berlin, et al. v. United States, 524 U.S. 399 (1998) (case regarding Travelgate, where a grand jury, at the Independent Counsel's request, sought handwritten notes from the attorney for the late Vincent Foster). Even if the above is incorrect, then at the very least it would be only the estate of Maharishi that could allow him to divulge the information that he did...and I doubt that Deepak got such a permission from the TM organisation...not only because it is too short a time since his death but because of the acrimonious relationship between the two parties, they probably wouldn't give it!
Re: [FairfieldLife] Urgent questions to Deepak Chopra - an open letter
I wondered if that was the case. --- Hagen J. Holtz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Peter, I am not seriously expecting any answers from Chopra, only some new insights, which may help me to get slowly a more complete picture of the whole undertaking. I am surprised how fast you have been replying on my insert :-). - Original Message - From: Peter To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 4:22 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Urgent questions to Deepak Chopra - an open letter Hagen, Deepak can only give you his experience, which is valuable. But he can not give you answers. His answers to the seeming paradox of Maharishi is for himself. We all have to resolve this in our own way. Some of your question are great. Some others sound like insane ravings. Recent Activity a.. 22New Members b.. 1New Photos c.. 1New Files Visit Your Group New web site? Drive traffic now. Get your business on Yahoo! search. Moderator Central An online resource for moderators of Yahoo! Groups. Yahoo! Groups Women of Curves Discuss food, fitness and weight loss. . Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Deepak Chopra: The Maharishi Years - The Untold Story: Recollections of a Fo
Everyone can be pretty sure Bevan will push the Maharishi envelope as superlatively as anything Maharishi did. It will still be fun to watch. this is one reason I have been excited by the TM Movement stories my whole life; at least it's totally fascinating metadrama.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Deepak, Maharishi, and doctor-patient confidentiality
Medical doctors are notorious for taking a very casual approach to doctor-patient confidentiality. Dr. Phil, a psychologist, never had a doctor patient relationship with Britney so there was no confidentiality to break. But your point about Chopra is correct. If he treated MMY, then he is bound by doctor-patient confidentiality. However, after a patient's death, this confidentiality enters into a bit of a legal twilight zone. --- shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dr. Phil was recently accused of breaking doctor-patient confidentiality by speaking to the news media about a patient, Britney Spears: http://tinyurl.com/yp5fb2 Deepak Chopra is talking publicly about a former patient, Maharishi Mahesh Yogi. Indeed, he describes himself as his doctor in the piece found at: http://tinyurl.com/23lanw This is what Chopra says from the above cited piece: It was true that after his medical crisis he refused to discuss his health and took pains to indicate that where once I had been his physician, now I was to consider myself in the former position of disciple. So Chopra was Maharishi's physician. But in his piece he discloses personal information about Maharishi of both a medical and personal nature, both of which are protected information. The problem is that the doctor-patient privilege extends even after death. The following is from http://epic.org/privacy/privileges/ : ...only the client can waive the privilege and the privilege survives the client. Therefore, even after a client's death, an attorney can not reveal the information without the prior approval of the client. This was recently articulated by the United States Supreme Court in Swidler Berlin, et al. v. United States, 524 U.S. 399 (1998) (case regarding Travelgate, where a grand jury, at the Independent Counsel's request, sought handwritten notes from the attorney for the late Vincent Foster). Even if the above is incorrect, then at the very least it would be only the estate of Maharishi that could allow him to divulge the information that he did...and I doubt that Deepak got such a permission from the TM organisation...not only because it is too short a time since his death but because of the acrimonious relationship between the two parties, they probably wouldn't give it! To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: So how much?
You're good at naming numbers. For that reason I find your opinions unsupported. - Original Message - From: nablusoss1008 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 1:59 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: So how much? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Kirk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is in Swami Brahmananda Trust? My guess is about 2,5 billion To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links
[FairfieldLife] Maharishi Article by SSRS
This is an interesting article, but it doest quite sound like SSRS. It might have been edited a bit and smoothed over. I don't know. Interesting, anyway. http://tinyurl.com/246qyk Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Deepak Chopra: The Maharishi Years - The Untold Story: Recollections of a Fo
This pretty much sums up my impression of the man also. 3 doctors in the ambulance, and only himself, after the car reached the hospital was able to revive a dead body ? Sounds very strange. -That sounds strange to you? That sounds strange. But Nablusoss1008 is Aliester Crowley reincarnated yet? And where on your scale is he?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Deepak, Maharishi, and doctor-patient confidentiality
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Medical doctors are notorious for taking a very casual approach to doctor-patient confidentiality. Dr. Phil, a psychologist, never had a doctor patient relationship with Britney so there was no confidentiality to break. But your point about Chopra is correct. If he treated MMY, then he is bound by doctor-patient confidentiality. However, after a patient's death, this confidentiality enters into a bit of a legal twilight zone. ...but that legal twilight zone is centered around two issues: 1) is it only the deceased that can give permission to the physician to divulge; or 2) is it the estate of the deceased. And in neither of the above cases would Deepak get that permission. In #1, MMY is dead and in #2 it is unlikely because the TMO doesn't like Chopra. There is virtually no question whether it is a case of the doctor unilaterally deciding to divulge...unless you know something I don't? If so, please tell... --- shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dr. Phil was recently accused of breaking doctor-patient confidentiality by speaking to the news media about a patient, Britney Spears: http://tinyurl.com/yp5fb2 Deepak Chopra is talking publicly about a former patient, Maharishi Mahesh Yogi. Indeed, he describes himself as his doctor in the piece found at: http://tinyurl.com/23lanw This is what Chopra says from the above cited piece: It was true that after his medical crisis he refused to discuss his health and took pains to indicate that where once I had been his physician, now I was to consider myself in the former position of disciple. So Chopra was Maharishi's physician. But in his piece he discloses personal information about Maharishi of both a medical and personal nature, both of which are protected information. The problem is that the doctor-patient privilege extends even after death. The following is from http://epic.org/privacy/privileges/ : ...only the client can waive the privilege and the privilege survives the client. Therefore, even after a client's death, an attorney can not reveal the information without the prior approval of the client. This was recently articulated by the United States Supreme Court in Swidler Berlin, et al. v. United States, 524 U.S. 399 (1998) (case regarding Travelgate, where a grand jury, at the Independent Counsel's request, sought handwritten notes from the attorney for the late Vincent Foster). Even if the above is incorrect, then at the very least it would be only the estate of Maharishi that could allow him to divulge the information that he did...and I doubt that Deepak got such a permission from the TM organisation...not only because it is too short a time since his death but because of the acrimonious relationship between the two parties, they probably wouldn't give it! To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] __ __ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
[FairfieldLife] Re: Deepak, Maharishi, and doctor-patient confidentiality
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter drpetersutphen@ wrote: Medical doctors are notorious for taking a very casual approach to doctor-patient confidentiality. Dr. Phil, a psychologist, never had a doctor patient relationship with Britney so there was no confidentiality to break. But your point about Chopra is correct. If he treated MMY, then he is bound by doctor-patient confidentiality. However, after a patient's death, this confidentiality enters into a bit of a legal twilight zone. ...but that legal twilight zone is centered around two issues: 1) is it only the deceased that can give permission to the physician to divulge; or 2) is it the estate of the deceased. And in neither of the above cases would Deepak get that permission. In #1, MMY is dead... Nonsense, Shemp. This just shows that you haven't been paying attention. Bevan is in contact with Maharishi, so completely that he can describe where he is as the reality. Surely he could ask Maharishi if it's Ok to talk about his heart attack and illnesses... :-)
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Deepak Chopra: The Maharishi Years - The Untold Story: Recollections of a Fo
and I've always wondered about the strong anti-Chopra feelings I've seen expressed on groups like this one. --Well, Ayurveda became a focal point in the mid eighties. First we saw all the vaidyas, then later yet we got Chopra for a spell. he seemed to me like a latecomer to the TMO who Maharishi went on to pet calling him Dhanvantara of the New Age specifically. We were more like - who is this? And he gave the graduation speech for my class there in 87. I was like - who is he? So I always felt a bit like he was a faker. But I liked some things in the letter he wrote. And obviously if Oprah likes him he's inviolable because she's never wrong. ;)
Re: [FairfieldLife] Deepak, Maharishi, and doctor-patient confidentiality
I doubt that Chopra's information about his patient Maharishi is a break against his duty to treat medical records confidentially. What he notified seems to be of public interest and is secondly being held to be too general as to commit against morality or confidential records - at least according to German law. - Original Message - From: shempmcgurk To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 2:51 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Deepak, Maharishi, and doctor-patient confidentiality Dr. Phil was recently accused of breaking doctor-patient confidentiality by speaking to the news media about a patient, Britney Spears: http://tinyurl.com/yp5fb2 Deepak Chopra is talking publicly about a former patient, Maharishi Mahesh Yogi. Indeed, he describes himself as his doctor in the piece found at: http://tinyurl.com/23lanw This is what Chopra says from the above cited piece: It was true that after his medical crisis he refused to discuss his health and took pains to indicate that where once I had been his physician, now I was to consider myself in the former position of disciple. So Chopra was Maharishi's physician. But in his piece he discloses personal information about Maharishi of both a medical and personal nature, both of which are protected information. The problem is that the doctor-patient privilege extends even after death. The following is from http://epic.org/privacy/privileges/ : ...only the client can waive the privilege and the privilege survives the client. Therefore, even after a client's death, an attorney can not reveal the information without the prior approval of the client. This was recently articulated by the United States Supreme Court in Swidler Berlin, et al. v. United States, 524 U.S. 399 (1998) (case regarding Travelgate, where a grand jury, at the Independent Counsel's request, sought handwritten notes from the attorney for the late Vincent Foster). Even if the above is incorrect, then at the very least it would be only the estate of Maharishi that could allow him to divulge the information that he did...and I doubt that Deepak got such a permission from the TM organisation...not only because it is too short a time since his death but because of the acrimonious relationship between the two parties, they probably wouldn't give it!
[FairfieldLife] Re: Deepak, Maharishi, and doctor-patient confidentiality
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Hagen J. Holtz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I doubt that Chopra's information about his patient Maharishi is a break against his duty to treat medical records confidentially. What he notified seems to be of public interest and is secondly being held to be too general as to commit against morality or confidential records - at least according to German law. It's just a tempest in a pisspot, Shemp looking for someone he can put down. However, if it ever did come to someone *real* questioning Chopra's right to talk about this stuff, he's home free legally. The precedent has already been set for people being able to publicly claim that they are in communication with Maharishi after his death. Bevan did it. Therefore Chopra could just say the same thing: I talked to Maharishi in Brahmaloka and asked him if it was OK to go public and he said, 'WTF...go for it.' :-) - Original Message - From: shempmcgurk To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 2:51 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Deepak, Maharishi, and doctor-patient confidentiality Dr. Phil was recently accused of breaking doctor-patient confidentiality by speaking to the news media about a patient, Britney Spears: http://tinyurl.com/yp5fb2 Deepak Chopra is talking publicly about a former patient, Maharishi Mahesh Yogi. Indeed, he describes himself as his doctor in the piece found at: http://tinyurl.com/23lanw This is what Chopra says from the above cited piece: It was true that after his medical crisis he refused to discuss his health and took pains to indicate that where once I had been his physician, now I was to consider myself in the former position of disciple. So Chopra was Maharishi's physician. But in his piece he discloses personal information about Maharishi of both a medical and personal nature, both of which are protected information. The problem is that the doctor-patient privilege extends even after death. The following is from http://epic.org/privacy/privileges/ : ...only the client can waive the privilege and the privilege survives the client. Therefore, even after a client's death, an attorney can not reveal the information without the prior approval of the client. This was recently articulated by the United States Supreme Court in Swidler Berlin, et al. v. United States, 524 U.S. 399 (1998) (case regarding Travelgate, where a grand jury, at the Independent Counsel's request, sought handwritten notes from the attorney for the late Vincent Foster). Even if the above is incorrect, then at the very least it would be only the estate of Maharishi that could allow him to divulge the information that he did...and I doubt that Deepak got such a permission from the TM organisation...not only because it is too short a time since his death but because of the acrimonious relationship between the two parties, they probably wouldn't give it!
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: So, does TM work?
Perhaps if the Dalai Lama made claims that his meditation could lower crime rates, improve the weather, end war, make nations invincible and bring about a new age of enlightenment etc etc, then maybe he could achieve such ridicule and obscurity. --Some statistics in US show 52 percent of people believe in Creationism. Maharishi might not have fulfilled the ideals of the elite from the TMO which all of you obviously are for one reason or another. Rather, he chose to appeal to the lowest common denominator which is the lowly 'Trotaka' type model of a typical know nothing human who is not out to prove themself right but who just wants someone to follow. It's obvious that Maharishi feels he has better product all around than the other religions and he felt he could with modern methods create even a greater religion than them. There's really no reason such a thing couldn't ostensibly happen. Now whether, having firsthand knowledge of his mortality and mix feelings about his methods, people here choose to follow is up to them. But in any case it doesn't mean that Maharishism won't spread. Most of the worlds religions are in place due to having some spread in the ancient commerce routes in the Middle east. Thus it is verve and advertising that create a religion.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Deepak Chopra: The Maharishi Years - Th
Peter writes: Ravi Shankar actually wanted to teach what he had cognized while in silence (Sudashan Kriya) within the structure of the TMO. MMY told him to teach on his own. He didn't leave the TMO for over a year after that. While I see Chopra and SSRS as very different from one another (one gives interesting talks and the other functions as a guru)both have greatly contributed to to the rising spirituality on the planet. TomT: MMY made a serious threat when he said I will turn all of you into Maharishis. Of course some got there earlier than others. Also, there is room for only one Maharishi in the organization that MMY built. MMY delivered on his threat. The pieces fell out where they did. Tom
[FairfieldLife] Re: So, does TM work?
In my case TM seems to work by causing /caturthaH praaNaayaamaH/ (Bhoja: stambha-ruupo gativicchedaH; Vyaasa: shvaasa-prashavaasayoH [...] gatyaabhaavaH). YKU sez that /samiirasya jaya/ is the first thing to do when trying to awaken kuNDalinii. I think it's fair to say that /samiirasya jaya/ is synonymous with /praaNaayaama/, and especially /caturthaH praaNaayaamaH./ According to YS, /caturthaH praaNaayamaH/ is essential for /dhaaraNaa/: dhaaraNaasu ca yogyataa manasaH (yogyataa of manas for[?] dharaaNaa_s: -su is the ending of locative plural). As many of us might know, /dhaaraNaa/ is the first part of /saMyama/. So, fourth praaNaayaama caused by PV TM is essential to siddhis. And nobody, including myself,understands anything of the above, LOL!
[FairfieldLife] Re: So, does TM work?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Kirk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Perhaps if the Dalai Lama made claims that his meditation could lower crime rates, improve the weather, end war, make nations invincible and bring about a new age of enlightenment etc etc, then maybe he could achieve such ridicule and obscurity. --Some statistics in US show 52 percent of people believe in Creationism. Maharishi might not have fulfilled the ideals of the elite from the TMO which all of you obviously are for one reason or another. Rather, he chose to appeal to the lowest common denominator which is the lowly 'Trotaka' type model of a typical know nothing human who is not out to prove themself right but who just wants someone to follow. It's obvious that Maharishi feels he has better product all around than the other religions and he felt he could with modern methods create even a greater religion than them. There's really no reason such a thing couldn't ostensibly happen. Now whether, having firsthand knowledge of his mortality and mix feelings about his methods, people here choose to follow is up to them. But in any case it doesn't mean that Maharishism won't spread. Most of the worlds religions are in place due to having some spread in the ancient commerce routes in the Middle east. Thus it is verve and advertising that create a religion. Interesting insights, Kirk. IF Maharishism were to follow the course of most major religions, however, the thing we should see next is a period of persecution. It's one of the key components of almost all major religions. That feeling of being persecuted bonds the followers together and makes their faith stronger, and *that* is what in the end makes the religion establishment.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Deepak Chopra: The Maharishi Years - The Untold Story: Recollections of a Fo
You can't blame Maharishi for being overly polite, that's a typically Indian way of treating others. People namaste and bow and it's easy to develop the flowery style of propping people. Then Maharishi found that people liked it so he further worked with it. Deepak, or anyone, should not succumb to flattery and such. And apparently Deepak did not succumb to flattery because he left. He could have had everyone kowtow to him even more than he did. But he chose money over flattery... samsara over liberationlike most ...even Bevan will be hard pressed to remember his motivation soon and within ten years it's likely this first TM Movement will be basically over I believe that Deepak shows that even those closest to Maharishi find it difficult to maintain a relationship to him, so they all will forget, with time, and individualize without a hub for their spokinesses. - Original Message - From: lurkernomore20002000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 7:12 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Deepak Chopra: The Maharishi Years - The Untold Story: Recollections of a Fo I blame Chopra for that as much as anyone. Chopra is the one who decided to become the media darling rather than sit at the feet of the guru. The entire thing with the rajas and whatnot is obviously a direct response to Chopra. You can't get on Oprah wearing a silly- looking crown. Lawson Lawson, at the risk of sounding judgemental, you started off so promising, and more balanced. I thought, this guy is posting from a new angle. Now it sounds like it's back to the old Lawson. Well at least now we know Maharishi's thinking about the Rajas and the uniform. Make them a laughing stock. That M thinks of everything! To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links
[FairfieldLife] Re: youtube -- photo tribute to Maharishi Mahesh Yogi
And their use of the worst fades ever! How obnoxious is a star fade! Starfade?why, because it reminds you of yourself does it? OffWorld Right. Curtis has more talent in his pinkie finger than you've ever imagined asswipe. Get a life fool. Thanks Geezer! I wonder if Off understands that I was talking about the video fade techniques before he went into protect the guru mode? Or maybe Off was just trying to be funny...or a dick...it is so often hard to tell his motives. Today,however, I will be a full blown rock star for about 150 elderly residents at a nursing home gig for their Valentine's Day party. I've performed there before. After the show I stand at the door and thank them for coming to my show. I see my own Dad in their faces and ultimately my own face if I am lucky to hang in as long as they have. It pays my bills, I leave in a version of GC I used to dream about through meditation, and they get a chance to relive their own younger days by seeing me crank out Delta blues with all I got. Not really a star, star, but not too faded IMO. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, george_deforest george.deforest@ wrote: by InvisibleSatsang -- My tribute to Maharishi Mahesh Yogi http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ln5T0C8V_8s this is a -very- good collection of old photos of maharishi; too bad it is set to some annoying indian bhajan music! And their use of the worst fades ever! How obnoxious is a star fade! Starfade?why, because it reminds you of yourself does it? OffWorld Right. Curtis has more talent in his pinkie finger than you've ever imagined asswipe. Get a life fool.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Deepak Chopra: The Maharishi Years - The Untold Story: Recollections of a Fo
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: Geez, Chopra was well after my time in the TMO and, if I remember correctly, after yours as well. Therefore I have no feelings about him one way or another, and I've always wondered about the strong anti-Chopra feelings I've seen expressed on groups like this one. Some of the things said by the very people who are now tempering their previous demonizations of Chopra because he's recently praised Maharishi have been in the past nothing short of slander. What I finally decided was at the cause of all the anger and obvious attempts to demonize Chopra and convince others that something was wrong with him or bad or devious about him is that HE WALKED AWAY FROM MAHARISHI. For some people, especially those who never became TM teachers or became involved with the TMO them- selves, there is this ideal they have in their heads of what a disciple should be. He should basically just have no life and DO WHAT HE IS TOLD by his master. THEY have never done this, of course. Hell, they never even went to the trouble to learn how to teach TM. But they consistently look down on the people who were at one time put in front of the public by Maharishi and who then blew him off and walked away and chose their own lives over his. despite your attempts here to insinuate yourself into this Chopra drama, by drawing parallels between what Chopra did (walked away from Maharishi) and what you did, the evidence for your speculation is lacking-- specifically, no one *at the present time* is angry at Chopra. Perhaps they were many yaers ago, and you want to harp on about that, but no one is now. its an empty speculation at best, and a craven bid for attention at worst. those that have experienced a guru disciple relationship do so privately. if the relationship is a genuine one, there is no questioning how others' similar relationships may be. this also hasn't been expressed by anyone on FFL recently. you appear to be making stuff up to suit your agenda.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Deepak Chopra: The Maharishi Years - The Untold Story: Recollections of a Fo
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Kirk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ...even Bevan will be hard pressed to remember his motivation soon and within ten years it's likely this first TM Movement will be basically over I believe that Deepak shows that even those closest to Maharishi find it difficult to maintain a relationship to him, so they all will forget, with time, and individualize without a hub for their spokinesses. Damn! You're on a real roll today, Kirk. Well said. That's it exactly. The Rama guy I worked with for a time has been dead ten years now. They (the people who still consider themselves his students) just had a big birthday party for him. I didn't go because it was in the US and I don't like to go there any more than I have to, but from what I heard from good friends who did attend, if there were 200 people in the room, there were 200 completely *different* party lines about who and what he was. Over time everyone has developed their *own* view of who and what he was, and that view wins. No one can establish any kind of baseline or official party line, because everyone is so attached to their own view. I suspect that will happen in the TMO as well. People will flock to those who hold a view similar to theirs, and sects will emerge. There will be the Bevanists, and the Tonyists, and the Hagelinists, and there will be more main- stream sects that go off and teach TM (or some- thing like it) for a reasonable price again. And each of them will *try* to establish a doctrine, a set of teachings that purport to be the real story of Maharishi and What He Taught. But over time none of them are likely to succeed, because the primary teaching of the TM movement is to believe that *your* subjective experiences are right, simply because they're yours. Thus even within the sects, if anyone tries to lay down the law and establish dogma, people will pay lip service to it for a while, but it won't last, because their real allegiance lies in their *own* memories and impressions of the man. Maharishi, after all, did the same thing. We have NO IDEA what the real story of Guru Dev was. All we have is Maharishi's view of who and what he was. And that view is often at odds with the view of other people who were students of Guru Dev's at the same time Mahesh was. The only reason that most of us have any kind of official view of who and what Guru Dev was is because MMY's was in many cases the *only* view we ever heard.
[FairfieldLife] Re: youtube -- photo tribute to Maharishi Mahesh Yogi
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, george_deforest george.deforest@ wrote: by InvisibleSatsang -- My tribute to Maharishi Mahesh Yogi http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ln5T0C8V_8s this is a -very- good collection of old photos of maharishi; too bad it is set to some annoying indian bhajan music! And their use of the worst fades ever! How obnoxious is a star fade! Starfade?why, because it reminds you of yourself does it? OffWorld Right. Curtis has more talent in his pinkie finger than you've ever imagined asswipe. Get a life fool. Wow, these old geezers on here have no sense of humor. OffWorld
[FairfieldLife] Re: Deepak Chopra: The Maharishi Years - The Untold Story: Recollections of a Fo
Damn! You're on a real roll today, Kirk. Well said. That's it exactly. Yeah I agree. Kirk is serving up some mad intellectual gumbo this trip. Keep it up brother! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Kirk kirk_bernhardt@ wrote: ...even Bevan will be hard pressed to remember his motivation soon and within ten years it's likely this first TM Movement will be basically over I believe that Deepak shows that even those closest to Maharishi find it difficult to maintain a relationship to him, so they all will forget, with time, and individualize without a hub for their spokinesses. Damn! You're on a real roll today, Kirk. Well said. That's it exactly. The Rama guy I worked with for a time has been dead ten years now. They (the people who still consider themselves his students) just had a big birthday party for him. I didn't go because it was in the US and I don't like to go there any more than I have to, but from what I heard from good friends who did attend, if there were 200 people in the room, there were 200 completely *different* party lines about who and what he was. Over time everyone has developed their *own* view of who and what he was, and that view wins. No one can establish any kind of baseline or official party line, because everyone is so attached to their own view. I suspect that will happen in the TMO as well. People will flock to those who hold a view similar to theirs, and sects will emerge. There will be the Bevanists, and the Tonyists, and the Hagelinists, and there will be more main- stream sects that go off and teach TM (or some- thing like it) for a reasonable price again. And each of them will *try* to establish a doctrine, a set of teachings that purport to be the real story of Maharishi and What He Taught. But over time none of them are likely to succeed, because the primary teaching of the TM movement is to believe that *your* subjective experiences are right, simply because they're yours. Thus even within the sects, if anyone tries to lay down the law and establish dogma, people will pay lip service to it for a while, but it won't last, because their real allegiance lies in their *own* memories and impressions of the man. Maharishi, after all, did the same thing. We have NO IDEA what the real story of Guru Dev was. All we have is Maharishi's view of who and what he was. And that view is often at odds with the view of other people who were students of Guru Dev's at the same time Mahesh was. The only reason that most of us have any kind of official view of who and what Guru Dev was is because MMY's was in many cases the *only* view we ever heard.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Deepak Chopra: The Maharishi Years - The Untold Story: Recollections of a Fo
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak geezerfreak@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: snip So, geeze, what do you make of the fact that Chopra's given two conflicting accounts about why the Beatles left the ashram? Who the hell cares? He wasn't there when the Beatles were in Rishikesh. He can only report what he was told by somebody. But he is reporting his first hand account of his taking care of MMY when he fell ill. No I wasn't there and neither were you. But he was. Geez, Chopra was well after my time in the TMO and, if I remember correctly, after yours as well. Therefore I have no feelings about him one way or another, and I've always wondered about the strong anti-Chopra feelings I've seen expressed on groups like this one. (So much for Barry's umpteenth vow, made just yesterday, not to respond to me. This is the way he usually sneaks back in, by ostensibly responding to someone else who has responded to me and demonizing me in those comments, without mentioning my name. But he doesn't normally start quite *this* quickly.) snip What I finally decided was at the cause of all the anger and obvious attempts to demonize Chopra and convince others that something was wrong with him or bad or devious about him is that HE WALKED AWAY FROM MAHARISHI. For some people, especially those who never became TM teachers or became involved with the TMO them- selves, there is this ideal they have in their heads of what a disciple should be. He should basically just have no life and DO WHAT HE IS TOLD by his master. For the record, I began to have doubts about Chopra at the very height of his popularity in the movement. What's particularly amusing about Barry's rant in the context of the current Chopra discussion is that back when Chopra's claim that the Beatles were thrown out by MMY for using drugs was first posted here in early 2006, and then again in early 2007, many of the the former TMers, including some of the most fervent critics, were up in arms about it because that story conflicted with the one that's commonly accepted, that the Beatles left because of a rumor that MMY had made a pass at a woman. Vaj suggested, absurdly, that it was TMO revisionism (which the TMO for some unfathomable reason had decided to put out via Chopra, the very person Barry claims TMers are demonizing because he had left the movement). Barry saw the story as evidence of Chopra trading on past association with famous people like the Beatles to get a few mentions in the press and increase sales of his latest books. Others cited Cynthia Lennon's firm assertion that the Beatles had been clean of drugs while they were at Rishikesh. Still others scoffed at Chopra's claim in the same article that there were no crimes committed in the U.S. during the Beatles' first appearance on Ed Sullivan, citing a snopes.com rebuttal. So there's been something of a reversal. Now, all of a sudden, Chopra is a paragon of integrity. His reversion to the standard tale of why the Beatles decamped is seen as purely incidental rather than a glaring contradiction; and anyone who calls attention to the contradiction is demonizing Chopra because he left the TMO. How quickly we forget when we need some excuse to dump on someone, eh?
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Deepak, Maharishi, and doctor-patient confidentiality
From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of shempmcgurk Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 8:09 AM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Deepak, Maharishi, and doctor-patient confidentiality ...but that legal twilight zone is centered around two issues: 1) is it only the deceased that can give permission to the physician to divulge; or 2) is it the estate of the deceased. And in neither of the above cases would Deepak get that permission. In #1, MMY is dead and in #2 it is unlikely because the TMO doesn't like Chopra. There is virtually no question whether it is a case of the doctor unilaterally deciding to divulge...unless you know something I don't? Deepak was serving as Maharishi’s physician, among others, but there’s was a personal relationship more than a medical one. Deepak is telling his personal story here, and mentioning medical details only as they are an essential part of that story. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.4/1277 - Release Date: 2/13/2008 8:00 PM
[FairfieldLife] Re: youtube -- photo tribute to Maharishi Mahesh Yogi
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And their use of the worst fades ever! How obnoxious is a star fade! Starfade?why, because it reminds you of yourself does it? OffWorld Right. Curtis has more talent in his pinkie finger than you've ever imagined asswipe. Get a life fool. Thanks Geezer! I wonder if Off understands that I was talking about the video fade techniques before he went into protect the guru mode? Or maybe Off was just trying to be funny...or a dick...it is so often hard to tell his motives. Today,however, I will be a full blown rock star for about 150 elderly residents at a nursing home gig for their Valentine's Day party. I've performed there before. After the show I stand at the door and thank them for coming to my show. I see my own Dad in their faces and ultimately my own face if I am lucky to hang in as long as they have. It pays my bills, I leave in a version of GC I used to dream about through meditation, and they get a chance to relive their own younger days by seeing me crank out Delta blues with all I got. Not really a star, star, but not too faded IMO. It was a joke. But for you its ok to make fun of people's simple, non-profit, heartfelt work, and scoff like a cynical has-been, while anyone else makes a joke and you and the nutter geezerfreak are up in arms protecting each other like this is a TV Survivor gameshow. Its because of people like you that I left the TM movement. Thank god most cynical pretentious people that criticize someone's simple creations, have finally gone out of it, I may start going back to TM centers from time to time. People that criticize someone's non- profit, for fun, or for hobby, creations, make me sick. It has nothing to do with it being about TM, it could be about anything. Fact is, if it was about anything else you would have not said it, but BECAUSE it is about TM you had to say something. Do you see how pathetic you are? You, the Great Blues Man, are criticizing children's creations...that is what it is like...criticising a child's creative work. The video was done in innocence and heartfelt, but you attack. OffWorld --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak geezerfreak@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, george_deforest george.deforest@ wrote: by InvisibleSatsang -- My tribute to Maharishi Mahesh Yogi http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ln5T0C8V_8s this is a -very- good collection of old photos of maharishi; too bad it is set to some annoying indian bhajan music! And their use of the worst fades ever! How obnoxious is a star fade! Starfade?why, because it reminds you of yourself does it? OffWorld Right. Curtis has more talent in his pinkie finger than you've ever imagined asswipe. Get a life fool.
[FairfieldLife] Re: youtube -- photo tribute to Maharishi Mahesh Yogi
I see...so you were just being a dick again Off. Star fades still suck. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: And their use of the worst fades ever! How obnoxious is a star fade! Starfade?why, because it reminds you of yourself does it? OffWorld Right. Curtis has more talent in his pinkie finger than you've ever imagined asswipe. Get a life fool. Thanks Geezer! I wonder if Off understands that I was talking about the video fade techniques before he went into protect the guru mode? Or maybe Off was just trying to be funny...or a dick...it is so often hard to tell his motives. Today,however, I will be a full blown rock star for about 150 elderly residents at a nursing home gig for their Valentine's Day party. I've performed there before. After the show I stand at the door and thank them for coming to my show. I see my own Dad in their faces and ultimately my own face if I am lucky to hang in as long as they have. It pays my bills, I leave in a version of GC I used to dream about through meditation, and they get a chance to relive their own younger days by seeing me crank out Delta blues with all I got. Not really a star, star, but not too faded IMO. It was a joke. But for you its ok to make fun of people's simple, non-profit, heartfelt work, and scoff like a cynical has-been, while anyone else makes a joke and you and the nutter geezerfreak are up in arms protecting each other like this is a TV Survivor gameshow. Its because of people like you that I left the TM movement. Thank god most cynical pretentious people that criticize someone's simple creations, have finally gone out of it, I may start going back to TM centers from time to time. People that criticize someone's non- profit, for fun, or for hobby, creations, make me sick. It has nothing to do with it being about TM, it could be about anything. Fact is, if it was about anything else you would have not said it, but BECAUSE it is about TM you had to say something. Do you see how pathetic you are? You, the Great Blues Man, are criticizing children's creations...that is what it is like...criticising a child's creative work. The video was done in innocence and heartfelt, but you attack. OffWorld --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak geezerfreak@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, george_deforest george.deforest@ wrote: by InvisibleSatsang -- My tribute to Maharishi Mahesh Yogi http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ln5T0C8V_8s this is a -very- good collection of old photos of maharishi; too bad it is set to some annoying indian bhajan music! And their use of the worst fades ever! How obnoxious is a star fade! Starfade?why, because it reminds you of yourself does it? OffWorld Right. Curtis has more talent in his pinkie finger than you've ever imagined asswipe. Get a life fool.
[FairfieldLife] Re: youtube -- photo tribute to Maharishi Mahesh Yogi
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I see...so you were just being a dick again Off. Star fades still suck. I have to agree with off_world on this. The guy obviously put a lot of work and feeling into the video. I didn't like the star fades either, but they didn't get that much in the way of enjoying this remarkable collection of photos. If the fades irritated you so much that you just couldn't keep yourself from remarking on them, there are lots of ways you could have done so without seeming to mock the fellow.
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Deepak, Maharishi, and doctor-patient confidentiality
--- Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of shempmcgurk Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 8:09 AM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Deepak, Maharishi, and doctor-patient confidentiality ...but that legal twilight zone is centered around two issues: 1) is it only the deceased that can give permission to the physician to divulge; or 2) is it the estate of the deceased. And in neither of the above cases would Deepak get that permission. In #1, MMY is dead and in #2 it is unlikely because the TMO doesn't like Chopra. There is virtually no question whether it is a case of the doctor unilaterally deciding to divulge...unless you know something I don't? Deepak was serving as Maharishis physician, among others, but theres was a personal relationship more than a medical one. Deepak is telling his personal story here, and mentioning medical details only as they are an essential part of that story. Even divulging that you are someone's doctor without the consent of the patient is an ethics violation. So, Chopra actually is behaving, according to most professional ethics standards, in an unethical manner. I'm glad he is though because his experiences with MMY are invaluable to hear. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.4/1277 - Release Date: 2/13/2008 8:00 PM Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping
[FairfieldLife] Re: youtube -- photo tribute to Maharishi Mahesh Yogi
My comment was about the fades which made it unwatchable for me. I am assuming that the guy is a bit more detached from his creative work than that and less fragile. I live in a world of constant creative criticism. It improves my work. But Judy's comments were in a constructive form Off. You might want to take notes. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: I see...so you were just being a dick again Off. Star fades still suck. I have to agree with off_world on this. The guy obviously put a lot of work and feeling into the video. I didn't like the star fades either, but they didn't get that much in the way of enjoying this remarkable collection of photos. If the fades irritated you so much that you just couldn't keep yourself from remarking on them, there are lots of ways you could have done so without seeming to mock the fellow.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Deepak Chopra: The Maharishi Years - The Untold Story: Recollections of a Fo
--- Kirk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: and I've always wondered about the strong anti-Chopra feelings I've seen expressed on groups like this one. --Well, Ayurveda became a focal point in the mid eighties. First we saw all the vaidyas, then later yet we got Chopra for a spell. he seemed to me like a latecomer to the TMO who Maharishi went on to pet calling him Dhanvantara of the New Age specifically. We were more like - who is this? And he gave the graduation speech for my class there in 87. I was like - who is he? So I always felt a bit like he was a faker. But I liked some things in the letter he wrote. And obviously if Oprah likes him he's inviolable because she's never wrong. ;) Kirk, did you notice that Chopra, as a mouthpiece for MMY's teaching, got it wrong a lot? I used to listen to him at various TMO events and realize that he didn't have a clear understanding of what Maharishi was talking about. I think this is because he didn't spend all that time watching tapes on TTC, ATR's, etc. He wasn't steeped in the knowledge. Several tapes I saw with him and MMY, Maharishi would correct him when he was talking from time to time. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping
[FairfieldLife] Web sites w MMY photos
Some good quality, very recent photos of Maharishi HYPERLINK http://maharishi-programmes.globalgoodnews.com/achievements/Maharishi-Recen t-Photos.htmlhttp://maharishi-programmes.globalgoodnews.com/achievements/Ma harishi-Recent-Photos.html HYPERLINK http://press-conference.globalgoodnews.com/archive-menu.htmlhttp://press-c onference.globalgoodnews.com/archive-menu.html Includes the excerpts from his Jan 11 talk. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.4/1277 - Release Date: 2/13/2008 8:00 PM
[FairfieldLife] Re: Deepak, Maharishi, and doctor-patient confidentiality
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of shempmcgurk Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 8:09 AM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Deepak, Maharishi, and doctor-patient confidentiality ...but that legal twilight zone is centered around two issues: 1) is it only the deceased that can give permission to the physician to divulge; or 2) is it the estate of the deceased. And in neither of the above cases would Deepak get that permission. In #1, MMY is dead and in #2 it is unlikely because the TMO doesn't like Chopra. There is virtually no question whether it is a case of the doctor unilaterally deciding to divulge...unless you know something I don't? Deepak was serving as Maharishi's physician, among others, but there's was a personal relationship more than a medical one. Deepak is telling his personal story here, and mentioning medical details only as they are an essential part of that story. Even divulging that you are someone's doctor without the consent of the patient is an ethics violation. So, Chopra actually is behaving, according to most professional ethics standards, in an unethical manner. I'm glad he is though because his experiences with MMY are invaluable to hear. So am I, Dr. Pete. But I do wonder about the confidentiality thing. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.4/1277 - Release Date: 2/13/2008 8:00 PM __ __ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping
[FairfieldLife] Re: Deepak, Maharishi, and doctor-patient confidentiality
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip So Chopra was Maharishi's physician. But in his piece he discloses personal information about Maharishi of both a medical and personal nature, both of which are protected information. The problem is that the doctor-patient privilege extends even after death. There are a few issues going on here. One is the ethical obligation doctors have to keep patient information confidential, but there are lots of exceptions. This ethical standard arose way back to the Hippocratic Oath and likely even before. The oath, which has varying translations,(and which is not taken in the US) says in part: Whatever, in connection with my professional practice or not, in connection with it, I see or hear, in the life of men, which ought not to be spoken of abroad, I will not divulge, as reckoning that all such should be kept secret. Generally the ethical obligation of confidentiality is considered to survive death. The legal issue of privilege is a separate issue and is a matter of state law in the US. Other countries likely have their own laws. The privilege has to do with what can or can't be revealed in a court of law.I have no idea what law applies to the situation described by Chopra and can't guess if he violated any law. I also don't know if the heirs of MMY have any claim against Chopra for breach of ethics. Odds are that they don't. I understand Chopra doesn't have a medical license any more so licensing authorities have little impact on him.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Deepak Chopra: The Maharishi Years - The Untold Story: Recollections of a Fo
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Kirk kirk_bernhardt@ wrote: ...even Bevan will be hard pressed to remember his motivation soon and within ten years it's likely this first TM Movement will be basically over I believe that Deepak shows that even those closest to Maharishi find it difficult to maintain a relationship to him, so they all will forget, with time, and individualize without a hub for their spokinesses. Damn! You're on a real roll today, Kirk. Well said. That's it exactly. The Rama guy I worked with for a time has been dead ten years now. They (the people who still consider themselves his students) just had a big birthday party for him. I didn't go because it was in the US and I don't like to go there any more than I have to, but from what I heard from good friends who did attend, if there were 200 people in the room, there were 200 completely *different* party lines about who and what he was. Over time everyone has developed their *own* view of who and what he was, and that view wins. No one can establish any kind of baseline or official party line, because everyone is so attached to their own view. I suspect that will happen in the TMO as well. People will flock to those who hold a view similar to theirs, and sects will emerge. There will be the Bevanists, and the Tonyists, and the Hagelinists, and there will be more main- stream sects that go off and teach TM (or some- thing like it) for a reasonable price again. And each of them will *try* to establish a doctrine, a set of teachings that purport to be the real story of Maharishi and What He Taught. Oops, looks like I wasn't the first to predict a schism. I think the TM independents in the UK are already doing a stirling job at breaking away. Their courses are like the TMO frozen in time before the crown craziness started. They teach the sidhis and evrything. And boy are they successful, the indie in our town taught more in one year than the entire TM-UK did in five. But over time none of them are likely to succeed, because the primary teaching of the TM movement is to believe that *your* subjective experiences are right, simply because they're yours. Thus even within the sects, if anyone tries to lay down the law and establish dogma, people will pay lip service to it for a while, but it won't last, because their real allegiance lies in their *own* memories and impressions of the man. Maharishi, after all, did the same thing. We have NO IDEA what the real story of Guru Dev was. All we have is Maharishi's view of who and what he was. And that view is often at odds with the view of other people who were students of Guru Dev's at the same time Mahesh was. The only reason that most of us have any kind of official view of who and what Guru Dev was is because MMY's was in many cases the *only* view we ever heard. As Paul Mason has a revised biog of Maharishi out now there are two very different versions of GD M's relationship. My only worry is Paul seems to have so much agenda that I'm not sure I can trust his research. Fascinating stuff though.
[FairfieldLife] 4 good movies I saw last weekend, and a great TV series
It is rare for me to see 4 winners in a row: 3:10 to Yuma (or as I've come to call it, 3:10 to Yuma; the Christ parable-- you'll see why-- its still quite good though) The Brave One- who can resist the combo of Jody Foster and a vigilante movie? War- Jet Li and Jason Steatham. Great twist. Elizabeth: The Golden Age- Cate Blanchett rocks! Normally I'm interested but not captivated by historical dramas. This one is a notch above, with sumptuous cimematography. Also happened across the recent series on AMC, Breaking Bad about a terminally ill high school chemistry teacher that decides to cook meth. Best series I've seen in ten years, at least.
[FairfieldLife] Re: 4 good movies I saw last weekend, and a great TV series
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sandiego108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It is rare for me to see 4 winners in a row: 3:10 to Yuma (or as I've come to call it, 3:10 to Yuma; the Christ parable-- you'll see why-- its still quite good though) Good movie, if a bit metaphysical at the end The Brave One- who can resist the combo of Jody Foster and a vigilante movie? I bet I can. War- Jet Li and Jason Steatham. Great twist. Elizabeth: The Golden Age- Cate Blanchett rocks! Normally I'm interested but not captivated by historical dramas. This one is a notch above, with sumptuous cimematography. Another good one, the armada scene is excellently handled, truly beautiful production. Also happened across the recent series on AMC, Breaking Bad about a terminally ill high school chemistry teacher that decides to cook meth. Best series I've seen in ten years, at least. Sounds like a laugh. Let me recommend a movie; No Country For Old Men. Treat yourself, it's stunning and the best Coen brothers picture so far. Too early to say if it's my movie of the year but it's just gotta be right up there. What with this and all the other 5* movies about I think we're in the golden age of Hollywood right now.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Deepak, Maharishi, and doctor-patient confidentiality
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of shempmcgurk Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 8:09 AM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Deepak, Maharishi, and doctor-patient confidentiality ...but that legal twilight zone is centered around two issues: 1) is it only the deceased that can give permission to the physician to divulge; or 2) is it the estate of the deceased. And in neither of the above cases would Deepak get that permission. In #1, MMY is dead and in #2 it is unlikely because the TMO doesn't like Chopra. There is virtually no question whether it is a case of the doctor unilaterally deciding to divulge...unless you know something I don't? Even if he had no right to act unilaterally, odds are that there is no remedy for the wrong. What are the relatives going to do? Sue him for damages? What are the damages? What is the legal claim? Maybe he breached a duty to MMY, but he doesn't have a duty to MMY's relatives. He can't be disciplined by a medical board--he gave up his license.
[FairfieldLife] TMO future - just speculation
Right now TMO like babes in the wood, having lost the parents. Most likely the instinct for survival and security will draw the key leaders together, especially as MMY left them in a clear hierarchy of his choosing. And for a while they'll carry on doing and saying things as before, as if MMY was still there in the background. But at some point this situation will become untenable because whereas previously any problems encountered because of policy decisions were clearly MMY's responsibility, from now on any failure will hit the TMO harder and cause confusion and differences to emerge. I think three problems in the near future will be encountered, though the order of these is less important, I imagine. (a) Once they establish even a few of the 48 towers of invincibility and associated schools universities they'll find few takers, especially at the current pricing levels. Pressure to change initiation fees will mount as income reserves dwindle. The very Hindu image of the TMO via the Maharishi channel will pose another problem and headache. (b) Disillusionment will mount in South American countries where invincibility thresholds have been reached yet national disasters keep happening - eg current floods in Bolivia and equador. The word invincibility itself will be felt like a heavy burden. (c) As differences in opinions emerge in the TMO one major divide might emerge between the Western and Indian branches of the TMO - the latter has been more independent of the current leaders and will have the power of tradition behind it and also control of the pandits and the majority of new practitioners through its educational establishments. Unless Raja Ram and the Rajas establish themselves in India to oversee developments there and gain some acceptance from the natives they will seem increasingly remote and colonial and irrelevant to the Indian TMO. I think Bevan's position as the main mouthpiece of MMY will become less tolerated by the others now that MMY is gone and not being a Raja himself. Whereas Hagelin is likely to gain more influence. Raja Ram will likely succumb to temptation and subtly exert more and more authority. And the more the TMO's united front dissolves the more we'll hear of certain individuals' special relationships with MMY, secret knowledge from or telepathic communication with the Master. Miracles too, eventually.. But maybe nothing of the kind will happen and we'll just see the invincible TMO succeed beyond our wildest dreams...
[FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife : Links
I started a Posthumous Links folder in the links section. HYPERLINK http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/links/Posthumous_Links_00120300 6391/http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/links/Posthumous_Links_001 203006391/ Feel free to add links to photo collections, articles, etc. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.4/1277 - Release Date: 2/13/2008 8:00 PM
[FairfieldLife] Re: 4 good movies I saw last weekend, and a great TV series
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sandiego108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It is rare for me to see 4 winners in a row: 3:10 to Yuma (or as I've come to call it, 3:10 to Yuma; the Christ parable-- you'll see why-- its still quite good though) Interesting. I'm following up because I liked the movie, and have now seen it twice. At no point did I ever perceive it as a parable based on the Christ story, and try as I might, I can't imagine that now that you've brought it up. Can you explain a little what you saw in the movie that made you see it that way? I'm not being snarky here. I'm a real movie freak, and I honestly don't see anything the least bit Christ-like or parable-like about this film. The Ninth Configuration? Sure. But 3:10 To Yuma? I just don't see it, and would love to know how you see it that way. I did think it was a neat Western, very much in the tradition of High Noon. It was in fact originally *written* at the same time that High Noon came out, and appeared in Western penny magazines; this movie was a remake as I under- stand it.
[FairfieldLife] Re: So, does TM work?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Kirk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Perhaps if the Dalai Lama made claims that his meditation could lower crime rates, improve the weather, end war, make nations invincible and bring about a new age of enlightenment etc etc, then maybe he could achieve such ridicule and obscurity. --Some statistics in US show 52 percent of people believe in Creationism. Maharishi might not have fulfilled the ideals of the elite from the TMO which all of you obviously are for one reason or another. Rather, he chose to appeal to the lowest common denominator which is the lowly 'Trotaka' type model of a typical know nothing human who is not out to prove themself right but who just wants someone to follow. Elite, Me? I think not, just an ordinary bloke who didn't fall down the rabbit hole but thinks some of the stuff down there could be useful. MMY pitched TM at everyone but the supporting circus of rajas and religious beliefs gave the game away. I've never been a follower but some need it, good luck to them it doesn't one jot. It's obvious that Maharishi feels he has better product all around than the other religions and he felt he could with modern methods create even a greater religion than them. There's really no reason such a thing couldn't ostensibly happen. No actual reason other than the fact that interest has fallen the whackier it got and that is disinterest from within how do you think the outside world would view all the craziness in the TMO? I showed a picture of king Tony to a friend of mine who is a real new-age believer and she was shocked then couldn't stop laughing, finally managing a are you serious I can't see anything improving now we have silent king Tony but you never know. As you say 52% believe in creationism Now whether, having firsthand knowledge of his mortality and mix feelings about his methods, people here choose to follow is up to them. But in any case it doesn't mean that Maharishism won't spread. Most of the worlds religions are in place due to having some spread in the ancient commerce routes in the Middle east. Thus it is verve and advertising that create a religion. My guess is it has to have appeal in the first place. TM advertising has a lot going for it; ending war, lowering crime rates improving the weather etc but you don't have to be involved very long to see that the claims don't stand up to much scrutiny. I hope you're right and a new religion grows, it will be fascinating to watch. May I be the first to predict a schism? That always seems to happen in new religions, perhaps the followers of king Tony will stay true to the vedic teaching and the Hagelinites will set out across the desert to found a world renowned society of their own.
[FairfieldLife] Re: youtube -- photo tribute to Maharishi Mahesh Yogi
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I see...so you were just being a dick again Off No, that would be you Curtis because only talentless people criticize non-profit innocent work. No-one with talent would do that. It is one thing to criticize professional work, but to act like an art-critic for simple expressions is just the sign of a complete has-been wannabe artist (by the way, when it comes to visual arts I am light years ahead of you guitar boy - I make about $60,000 a year out of it) OffWorld
[FairfieldLife] Re: TMO future - just speculation
Oh yes, I am wise But it's wisdom born of pain Yes, I've paid the price But look how much I gained If I have to I can do anything I am strong (strong) I am invincible (invincible) I am Bevan
[FairfieldLife] Re: Deepak Chopra: The Maharishi Years - The Untold Story: Recollections of a Fo
Was MMY was incommunicado between August 1, 1991 - August 1,1992? Did MMY move to Vlodrop late 1992? Where is Neil Patterson? Nandkishore? Jerry Jarvis? etc.? Too many rumors. Can someone please write a factual Inside the TMO book? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter drpetersutphen@ wrote: --- authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: That was fantastic! Chopra has gained many points in my estimation for the humanness of this piece. It's a fascinating piece, but I'd recommend a salt shaker to accompany your reading, particularly with regard to the details of the medical emergency and Chopra's role in it. Why? In my personal interactions with Chopra many moons ago he always came across as a pretty straight shooter. He's just a *little* too much at the center of the story he tells, and he's just a bit too good of a story teller, too smooth. It set off my B.S. detector. But more specifically, he's been quoted in published news stories telling two competing versions of why the Beatles left Maharishi: first, that they had been using drugs and MMY threw them out; I think most of us here were surprised to hear him telling the drugs version. Some suggested he was trying to repair his relations with the movement by telling the version that reflected MMY in a better light. Whatever, he appears to be playing some kind of game, and I just don't trust him not to make up details that reflect *himself* in a better light. This pretty much sums up my impression of the man also. 3 doctors in the ambulance, and only himself, after the car reached the hospital was able to revive a dead body ? Sounds very strange. I think Deepak's credibility in this story comes down to this: Is it true what he says about Maharishi being incommunicado with the public (i.e., us, we the meditators) for such a long period of time? This is what Deepak claims: In all, Maharishi was out of circulation for almost a year; few in the TM movement knew where he was... Now, I'm not enough of a TMO historian to know whether about a year is true; but if it is, then I say that puts Deepak in the driver's seat when it comes to credibility and the TMO at the back of the bus. Does anyone here remember that period of time and, if so, what the TMO was saying about where Maharishi was and what he was doing?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: So, does TM work?
IF Maharishism were to follow the course of most major religions, however, the thing we should see next is a period of persecution. It's one of the key components of almost all major religions. That feeling of being persecuted bonds the followers together and makes their faith stronger, and *that* is what in the end makes the religion establishment. -I don't recall if that's true of Eastern religions - but what is true is that a lineage of made saints should arise to comfirm the underlying teaching's effectiveness.
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Deepak, Maharishi, and doctor-patient confidentiality
From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of ruthsimplicity Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 10:25 AM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Deepak, Maharishi, and doctor-patient confidentiality I also don't know if the heirs of MMY have any claim against Chopra for breach of ethics. Odds are that they don't. I understand Chopra doesn't have a medical license any more so licensing authorities have little impact on him. I don’t think MMY’s heirs would fare too well in an ethics battle with anyone. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.4/1277 - Release Date: 2/13/2008 8:00 PM
[FairfieldLife] Re: TMO future - just speculation
I'm surprised Bevan didn't pick up on Maharishi's message from Heaven - Bevan was to leap from that window - to show the world Yogic Flying - what an image, a naked cherub with soapy eyes. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ruthsimplicity [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Oh yes, I am wise But it's wisdom born of pain Yes, I've paid the price But look how much I gained If I have to I can do anything I am strong (strong) I am invincible (invincible) I am Bevan
RE: [FairfieldLife] TMO future - just speculation
Last night I was talking with a fellow who has a pretty significant role in the TMO here locally. He was grappling with the issue that whereas he was able to put up with BS from TMO authorities when MMY was alive, he didn’t know how well that would go now that “Nadar Raam” was at the helm. He felt he had a connection with MMY but doesn’t know King Tony from Adam, and couldn’t imagine achieving the same leap of faith he had in the past. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.4/1277 - Release Date: 2/13/2008 8:00 PM
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Deepak, Maharishi, and doctor-patient confidentiality
--- ruthsimplicity [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of shempmcgurk Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 8:09 AM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Deepak, Maharishi, and doctor-patient confidentiality ...but that legal twilight zone is centered around two issues: 1) is it only the deceased that can give permission to the physician to divulge; or 2) is it the estate of the deceased. And in neither of the above cases would Deepak get that permission. In #1, MMY is dead and in #2 it is unlikely because the TMO doesn't like Chopra. There is virtually no question whether it is a case of the doctor unilaterally deciding to divulge...unless you know something I don't? Even if he had no right to act unilaterally, odds are that there is no remedy for the wrong. What are the relatives going to do? Sue him for damages? What are the damages? What is the legal claim? Maybe he breached a duty to MMY, but he doesn't have a duty to MMY's relatives. He can't be disciplined by a medical board--he gave up his license. So he gets frowned upon by his professional peers! To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
[FairfieldLife] On KRUU this morning
I woke up this morning some time after 4am, turned on the broadband communications receiver I keep by my bed (an AOR AR-3000A) and started scrolling through my station presets, which is a bunch of AM, FM, and shortwave stations. I hit KRUU, and there was a guy reading that kooky Kaplan letter from several years ago. I checked the KRUU program schedule, and it was a program called 'Rasta Roots' hosted by Joel Zimmerman. http://www.kruufm.com/node/13 He couldn't pronounce Shankaracharya properly, and he pronounced Patanjali pah-ton-JAH-li, so I doubt the guy was ever a roo. Does anyone here know this guy?
[FairfieldLife] Experience Query
Oliver Sacks has an essay today in the New York Times re migraines, http://migraine.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/02/13/patterns/index.html and it reminded me of something that occurs occasionally in meditation that I wanted to know if anybody has any insight regarding. Like Sacks, from time to time I get migrainous auras but without the headache subsequent. I'm not sure if there is any relationship, but sometimes in meditation I'll get a very distinct electrical shock with a burst of light and a very distinct geometric pattern. Pattern isn't always the same, though sometimes it does appear to be similar to, or the same as previous occasions. This happens in an instant and except for a brief adrenaline spike following on its heels, nothing changes and I settle back into meditation. I've always ignored it and never made the connection between the meditation flashes and migraines, nor the flashes and kundalini, though that would seem to be another likely explanation. So I'm curious if others have similar experiences and if they've done any research or might have any insight as to what's happening. Marek
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Deepak Chopra: The Maharishi Years - The Untold Story: Recollections of a Fo
Maharishi, after all, did the same thing. We have NO IDEA what the real story of Guru Dev was. All we have is Maharishi's view of who and what he was. And that view is often at odds with the view of other people who were students of Guru Dev's at the same time Mahesh was. The only reason that most of us have any kind of official view of who and what Guru Dev was is because MMY's was in many cases the *only* view we ever heard. Safe to say that if it wasn't for Maharishi then we would not have heard of Guru Dev as he would have just been another saint in the long Hindu list. I personally do not believe that Maharishi has outdone the Shankaracharyas. It's negotiable which is the more important victory for him, that is, to get the Shanks to think Westerners should be allowed to be Hindus, or that Hindus should be allowed to become Westerners. Because we aren't normally allowed within range of many yajnas at all. The effect Maharishi had was to unite the world at least a few more ways. I believe that the course participants now are experiencing some of the Vedic ability as based in the real traditional yajnas being held now. Especially in Varanasi. I had the benefit of working with Ben Collins puja group and a couple others last year and I can speak to the power of the attention of real Hindu (and Buddhist) priests. They have powerful concentration which alone with one as the focus, or whomever recipient can feel. As for whether I believe in the gods or the power alone of human attention it is great. Rituals may well be psychocognitive coherence makers due to synchronized attentions and intentions. I actually almost went totally crazy during that time. I think I had something like literally 15 yajnas lined up for last Akshaya Tritiya. Fucking intense. I was literally insomniac for five months. I mean totally. I burned the pujas out. I can't even do one now or it's too much for me. I had yajnas done to erase slavery, to create peace in the east, to make my gurus, many Buddhist, live longer, to enrich New Orleans and the Gulf South, and to attract merit to said same. Finally I did some Bhudevi yajnas for all beings. I met a lama and he told me to do all pujas for all beings. So I started doing that. man was it fucking intense. One Sunday morning I felt this peace so great. But then the swing to feeling like I was in hell. It was all really really intense. My point. I forget. Oh yeah. Oh Yeah, I also under the auspices of the Kanchi Shank and other Sri Vidya devotees was the only white guy out of a hundred Hindus to be in the first Saundaraya Lahiri Japa Yajna under Sri Harshanand, rising young guruji. But oh yeah. Shakti is in control, not Maharishi or his followers. I had a dream the other night where a middle aged black woman of average looks was bowed to by everybody including myself, and when she walked towards me I got a hardon. The next day I saw this picture of Mahakali riding Shiva. So I thought some funny things about Bevans proclaimation that Maharishi has turned Kali to Sat quite interesting. I had quite a few dreams during this last week, all with black people in them, all seeming to say that Shakti is the source of all power, not Maharishi. I had one dream where a small black boy was trying to get a woman to dance but she wasn't buying. She was staying out of frame and unseen. Not dancing. So I have to praise Mahakali as Buddha first and Mahakali as Herself second before Mahakali as Maharishi third or fourth or whatever. Guru dev was Mahakali, as Shodashi, as are all the great gurus of the Shanks. Yoni Goddess, circular source of endless perfection and power. Without Shakti Shiva is Shava. Jai Ma. Ma unformed, Ma with no basis, Ma - basis of freedom. Ma - yah! And freedom from Yah! to- Ma. This is what one calls transcending in speech. ;)
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Deepak Chopra: The Maharishi Years - The Untold Story: Recollections of a Fo
Kirk, did you notice that Chopra, as a mouthpiece for MMY's teaching, got it wrong a lot? I used to listen to him at various TMO events and realize that he didn't have a clear understanding of what Maharishi was talking about. I think this is because he didn't spend all that time watching tapes on TTC, ATR's, etc. He wasn't steeped in the knowledge. Several tapes I saw with him and MMY, Maharishi would correct him when he was talking from time to time. ---No, I never was into Chopra and didn't look to him for anything.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Deepak Chopra: The Maharishi Years - The Untold Story: Recollections of a Fo
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip I think Deepak's credibility in this story comes down to this: Is it true what he says about Maharishi being incommunicado with the public (i.e., us, we the meditators) for such a long period of time? This is what Deepak claims: In all, Maharishi was out of circulation for almost a year; few in the TM movement knew where he was... Now, I'm not enough of a TMO historian to know whether about a year is true; but if it is, then I say that puts Deepak in the driver's seat when it comes to credibility and the TMO at the back of the bus. Does anyone here remember that period of time and, if so, what the TMO was saying about where Maharishi was and what he was doing? I was wondering that myself, Shemp. In this article, Chopra says MMY became ill in August 1991. In one of the India Times articles interviewing Chopra, he's quoted as saying that in September 1991, George Harrison asked him to arrange a meeting with MMY, and they flew to Vlodrop to see him. (This is when George supposedly apologized to MMY for the Beatles leaving him.) According to Chopra's current article, MMY would at that time have been either in London or in a country home in the southwest of England, recuperating. He would have then gone back to his chosen residence in Vlodrop sometime in the summer of 1992 (most likely before Guru Purnima, I should think, in which case it's strange Chopra doesn't seem to remember exactly how long MMY was incommunicado). But he became ill in India. Had he previously established this chosen residence in Vlodrop and then returned to India? Or was this brand new, a location chosen so he could live in isolation and under better security? I thought I remembered that MMY's order for TMers to leave D.C. happened in the early '90s, so I did a little digging. Here's a quote from a brief story in Time magazine dated December 30, 1991 (when MMY would supposedly have been either in London or southwest England and not communicating with the movement at large): At long last it's official: Washington is a city beyond redemption. Last week, after a decade of collective meditation designed to lower the capital's crime rate and improve its quality of life, the Maharishi Mahesh Yogi has ordered his flock to give up and pull out of the place. From is European headquarters in the Netherlands, the bearded founder of the transcendental meditation movement declared, 'Everyone should leave this sea of mud. People should move to a peaceful, neat, clean atmosphere.' http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,974536,00.html From these two items--one from Chopra himself-- it seems MMY was actually in Vlodrop in late 1991, not recuperating elsewhere and out of touch with the movement, as Chopra claims in his latest article. Ooopsie! Also in late 1991, Skolnick's JAMA article came out, embroiling the TMO, and Chopra in particular, in deep controversy about Chopra's purported failure to disclose his financial connections to the TMO. Yet in his current article, he refers to languid weeks and months alone with Maharishi, except for the servants who cooked and served his meals. The mess with JAMA, Chopra has said elsewhere, figured prominently in his decision to leave the TMO. Yet he doesn't mention it anywhere in the article. And was the TMO dealing with this PR disaster without any guidance from MMY? Finally, 1992 was Maharishi's Year of the Constitution of the Universe. As I recall, that was a bigger deal than most of MMY's Years. Was it announced by MMY in absentia? On John Hagelin's Institute of Science, Technology, and Public Policy Web site, there's a page outlining Maharishi's Course on Supreme Military Science By Maharishi Mahesh Yogi. One of the course items, apparently referring to a videotape: Lecture 1: Maharishi Offers the Constitution of the Universe, the Supreme Knowledge of Natural Law, to the People and the Government of Every Nation 2 hours 10 minutes24 January 1992, Maharishi Vedic University, Vlodrop, Holland I suppose it isn't impossible that MMY could have been dealing with all this stuff by phone from southwest England (and sending a video or audiotape of his talk on the Constitution of the Universe, which the TMO then falsely identified as having been recorded at Vlodrop). But if so MMY sure wasn't spending languid weeks and months in the country alone with Chopra, happily conversing about this and that, and he certainly wasn't incommunicado with the movement at large. And then there's Chopra's account of his visit with George Harrison to MMY in fall 1991 at Vlodrop, which simply can't be fit into Chopra's latest scenario nohow. Houston, I think we have a problem. At the very least, Chopra has some questions to answer.
[FairfieldLife] Trotaka Syndrome (was Re: Deepak Chopra: The Maharishi Years)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Obviously, I would never have risen to prominence in the TM movement. :-) Not to worry - you have your own prominence and is still a 9,5 :-)
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: So, does TM work?
My guess is it has to have appeal in the first place. TM advertising has a lot going for it; ending war, lowering crime rates improving the weather etc but you don't have to be involved very long to see that the claims don't stand up to much scrutiny. I hope you're right and a new religion grows, it will be fascinating to watch. May I be the first to predict a schism? That always seems to happen in new religions, perhaps the followers of king Tony will stay true to the vedic teaching and the Hagelinites will set out across the desert to found a world renowned society of their own. -What is most linkely going to happen is what happened to the Hare Krishnas which is that they have partially merged with traditional Vaishnavaism. We don't know yet what sect will end up becoming most alligned with them. But the hard core will find their place in the most similar conditions under which Maharishi believed, because - and here's the key issue, because the Movement is focused on pundits and yajnas and therefore they need the resources of the teaching apparatus for making pundits - the Vedic families, of which none were really TMO unless they have kids who joined. Pundits have their gotras. Can't weigh against that. This is why Maharishi must work with the previous traditionalists. The whole TMO was heretofor a front for traditional Hindutva and will be absorbed by it. Which does show its greatness IMO, in some ways. Hindutva is supported by Trishakti, if you believe in Hers.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Deepak Chopra: The Maharishi Years - The Untold Story: Recollections of a Fo
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of nablusoss1008 Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 2:18 AM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Deepak Chopra: The Maharishi Years - The Untold Story: Recollections of a Fo Yes, and the american purusha that poisened him. The story didn't identify the suspect as an American Purusha. Just a Westerner. USA is still considered a western country, at least by many standards. I'll bet my two last centimes that the fellow is (or perhaps was) american.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Experience Query
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Marek Reavis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Oliver Sacks has an essay today in the New York Times re migraines, http://migraine.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/02/13/patterns/index.html and it reminded me of something that occurs occasionally in meditation that I wanted to know if anybody has any insight regarding. Like Sacks, from time to time I get migrainous auras but without the headache subsequent. In recent years I've twice had an experience very similar to what Sacks describes, although not quite as fancy--just a bright, ragged zigzag pattern suddenly appearing in my left field of vision, lasting about 20 minutes and then fading. There's no associated blindness, and no headache follows (I've never been subject to any kind of headache anyway). And it wasn't during meditation. The first time it happened, it scared the daylights out of me. But I looked it up on the Web and found that it was almost certainly a migrainous aura without the migraine.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Experience Query
Yes, live in lights. It is perception of subtle elements through agency of eyes which are intertwined with spiritual channels. You are seeing into awareness itself. If you look you can see to the very bottom of the mind. - Original Message - From: Marek Reavis [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 11:36 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Experience Query Oliver Sacks has an essay today in the New York Times re migraines, http://migraine.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/02/13/patterns/index.html and it reminded me of something that occurs occasionally in meditation that I wanted to know if anybody has any insight regarding. Like Sacks, from time to time I get migrainous auras but without the headache subsequent. I'm not sure if there is any relationship, but sometimes in meditation I'll get a very distinct electrical shock with a burst of light and a very distinct geometric pattern. Pattern isn't always the same, though sometimes it does appear to be similar to, or the same as previous occasions. This happens in an instant and except for a brief adrenaline spike following on its heels, nothing changes and I settle back into meditation. I've always ignored it and never made the connection between the meditation flashes and migraines, nor the flashes and kundalini, though that would seem to be another likely explanation. So I'm curious if others have similar experiences and if they've done any research or might have any insight as to what's happening. Marek To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links
[FairfieldLife] Re: Deepak Chopra: The Maharishi Years - The Untold Story: Recollections of a Fo
this reads like a 21st century rig veda - imagine the commentaries on this piece written 5000 years in the future. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Kirk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Maharishi, after all, did the same thing. We have NO IDEA what the real story of Guru Dev was. All we have is Maharishi's view of who and what he was. And that view is often at odds with the view of other people who were students of Guru Dev's at the same time Mahesh was. The only reason that most of us have any kind of official view of who and what Guru Dev was is because MMY's was in many cases the *only* view we ever heard. Safe to say that if it wasn't for Maharishi then we would not have heard of Guru Dev as he would have just been another saint in the long Hindu list. I personally do not believe that Maharishi has outdone the Shankaracharyas. It's negotiable which is the more important victory for him, that is, to get the Shanks to think Westerners should be allowed to be Hindus, or that Hindus should be allowed to become Westerners. Because we aren't normally allowed within range of many yajnas at all. The effect Maharishi had was to unite the world at least a few more ways. I believe that the course participants now are experiencing some of the Vedic ability as based in the real traditional yajnas being held now. Especially in Varanasi. I had the benefit of working with Ben Collins puja group and a couple others last year and I can speak to the power of the attention of real Hindu (and Buddhist) priests. They have powerful concentration which alone with one as the focus, or whomever recipient can feel. As for whether I believe in the gods or the power alone of human attention it is great. Rituals may well be psychocognitive coherence makers due to synchronized attentions and intentions. I actually almost went totally crazy during that time. I think I had something like literally 15 yajnas lined up for last Akshaya Tritiya. Fucking intense. I was literally insomniac for five months. I mean totally. I burned the pujas out. I can't even do one now or it's too much for me. I had yajnas done to erase slavery, to create peace in the east, to make my gurus, many Buddhist, live longer, to enrich New Orleans and the Gulf South, and to attract merit to said same. Finally I did some Bhudevi yajnas for all beings. I met a lama and he told me to do all pujas for all beings. So I started doing that. man was it fucking intense. One Sunday morning I felt this peace so great. But then the swing to feeling like I was in hell. It was all really really intense. My point. I forget. Oh yeah. Oh Yeah, I also under the auspices of the Kanchi Shank and other Sri Vidya devotees was the only white guy out of a hundred Hindus to be in the first Saundaraya Lahiri Japa Yajna under Sri Harshanand, rising young guruji. But oh yeah. Shakti is in control, not Maharishi or his followers. I had a dream the other night where a middle aged black woman of average looks was bowed to by everybody including myself, and when she walked towards me I got a hardon. The next day I saw this picture of Mahakali riding Shiva. So I thought some funny things about Bevans proclaimation that Maharishi has turned Kali to Sat quite interesting. I had quite a few dreams during this last week, all with black people in them, all seeming to say that Shakti is the source of all power, not Maharishi. I had one dream where a small black boy was trying to get a woman to dance but she wasn't buying. She was staying out of frame and unseen. Not dancing. So I have to praise Mahakali as Buddha first and Mahakali as Herself second before Mahakali as Maharishi third or fourth or whatever. Guru dev was Mahakali, as Shodashi, as are all the great gurus of the Shanks. Yoni Goddess, circular source of endless perfection and power. Without Shakti Shiva is Shava. Jai Ma. Ma unformed, Ma with no basis, Ma - basis of freedom. Ma - yah! And freedom from Yah! to- Ma. This is what one calls transcending in speech. ;)
Re: [FairfieldLife] On KRUU this morning
Kinda like only Jews can make Jewish jokes. Only longtime ru's can say anything bad about the TMO or MMY because they actually know what they're talking about. --- Alex Stanley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I woke up this morning some time after 4am, turned on the broadband communications receiver I keep by my bed (an AOR AR-3000A) and started scrolling through my station presets, which is a bunch of AM, FM, and shortwave stations. I hit KRUU, and there was a guy reading that kooky Kaplan letter from several years ago. I checked the KRUU program schedule, and it was a program called 'Rasta Roots' hosted by Joel Zimmerman. http://www.kruufm.com/node/13 He couldn't pronounce Shankaracharya properly, and he pronounced Patanjali pah-ton-JAH-li, so I doubt the guy was ever a roo. Does anyone here know this guy? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping
[FairfieldLife] Re: So how much?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Kirk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You're good at naming numbers. For that reason I find your opinions unsupported. And how to characterize someone who doesn't even inquire what currency I'm referring to ? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Kirk kirk_bernhardt@ wrote: Is in Swami Brahmananda Trust? My guess is about 2,5 billion To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links
[FairfieldLife] Re: Deepak Chopra: The Maharishi Years - The Untold Story: Recollections of a Fo
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip The very assumption that there *was* a poisoning is the part of Chopra's story that sounds weird to me. He's a doctor; how could he even suggest such a thing if no one ever did the tests to support that theory? At least two of us--one being me--have already questioned that, actually. How? Easy. It makes them feel IMPORTANT to think that Maharishi was so important that someone wanted to poison him. It's the same mindset that wants to believe that the TM movement was heavily infiltrated with CIA agents. But that's a silly explanation. You don't have to be important to anybody but the person who wants to poison you. Lots of people who aren't at all important get themselves poisoned by someone with a grudge. The story does sound strange given the apparent lack of any response to the possibility (other than, perhaps, ensconcing MMY in isolation at Vlodrop afterwards). Chopra's the only person I've heard the poisoning theory from, other than those who read Chopra's first suggestion of it in his interview with John Knapp some years ago. It's astonishing that the TMO rumor mill wouldn't have been buzzing with it if it had occurred to anyone but Chopra. On the other hand, Chopra *was* a physician, and it isn't out of the question that MMY's symptoms were more consistent with poisoning than simply falling ill naturally. But again, in that case, the other physicians in the hospital should have come to the same conclusion. I wonder if Ruth has any medical contacts who could evaluate what Chopra describes and venture an opinion?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TMO future - just speculation
hahahah - Original Message - From: ruthsimplicity [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 11:03 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: TMO future - just speculation Oh yes, I am wise But it's wisdom born of pain Yes, I've paid the price But look how much I gained If I have to I can do anything I am strong (strong) I am invincible (invincible) I am Bevan To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links
[FairfieldLife] Re: So, does TM work?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Kirk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My guess is it has to have appeal in the first place. TM advertising has a lot going for it; ending war, lowering crime rates improving the weather etc but you don't have to be involved very long to see that the claims don't stand up to much scrutiny. I hope you're right and a new religion grows, it will be fascinating to watch. May I be the first to predict a schism? That always seems to happen in new religions, perhaps the followers of king Tony will stay true to the vedic teaching and the Hagelinites will set out across the desert to found a world renowned society of their own. -What is most linkely going to happen is what happened to the Hare Krishnas which is that they have partially merged with traditional Vaishnavaism. We don't know yet what sect will end up becoming most alligned with them. But the hard core will find their place in the most similar conditions under which Maharishi believed, because - and here's the key issue, because the Movement is focused on pundits and yajnas and therefore they need the resources of the teaching apparatus for making pundits - the Vedic families, of which none were really TMO unless they have kids who joined. Pundits have their gotras. Can't weigh against that. This is why Maharishi must work with the previous traditionalists. The whole TMO was heretofor a front for traditional Hindutva and will be absorbed by it. Which does show its greatness IMO, in some ways. Hindutva is supported by Trishakti, if you believe in Hers. I don't believe in anything, so I'll have to take your word for all this. But will the TMO admit that it is just another religion rather than the only truth? I doubt it, it would lose what small non- denominational appeal it still has and that was the original point for MMY, an eastern practise that doesn't conflict with your own beliefs.
[FairfieldLife] Re: youtube -- photo tribute to Maharishi Mahesh Yogi
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: I see...so you were just being a dick again Off No, that would be you Curtis because only talentless people criticize non-profit innocent work. No-one with talent would do that. It is one thing to criticize professional work, but to act like an art-critic for simple expressions is just the sign of a complete has-been wannabe artist (by the way, when it comes to visual arts I am light years ahead of you guitar boy - I make about $60,000 a year out of it) OffWorld Still with Off on this one Judith? Just checking.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Deepak Chopra: The Maharishi Years - The Untold Story: Recollections of a Fo
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Kirk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This pretty much sums up my impression of the man also. 3 doctors in the ambulance, and only himself, after the car reached the hospital was able to revive a dead body ? Sounds very strange. -That sounds strange to you? That sounds strange. But Nablusoss1008 is Aliester Crowley reincarnated yet? And where on your scale is he? According to Benjamin AC was at 1,6 at the time of passing. The same as John Wesley, Tennessee William, Harold Wilson, Virginia Wolf, Emiliana Zapata, Haile Selassie, George Sand, Walter Russel, Paul Robeson, Miehe van der Rohe, Yitzhak Rabin, Marco Polo, Evita Peron, Eugene O'Neill, Florence Nightingale, Mildred Norman, Francois Mitterand, Herman Melville, David Livingstone, Robert Kennedy, Ayatholla Khomeini, Ernest Hemingway, Manly Palmer Hall, George Gershwin, Eric Fromm, Richard Feynman, Emmet Fox, Federico Fellini, Philip K. Dick, Salvador Dali, Charles Chaplin, Andres Carnegie, Luther Burbank, David Bohm, Leonard Bernstein, Arthur Ashe, and John Lennon. Amongst others. I do not know whether AC is in circulation at the moment. Please note that Mr. Cremes list of Initiates as described in Maitreya's Mission vol III is different, and more prescice, from the scale I've put on here at FFL.
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Deepak Chopra: The Maharishi Years - The Untold Story: Recollections of a Fo
From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of nablusoss1008 Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 11:50 AM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Deepak Chopra: The Maharishi Years - The Untold Story: Recollections of a Fo USA is still considered a western country, at least by many standards. Of course. And so are all the countries in Europe. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.4/1277 - Release Date: 2/13/2008 8:00 PM
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Deepak Chopra: The Maharishi Years - The Untold Story: Recollections of a Fo
On Feb 14, 2008, at 9:15 AM, authfriend wrote: (So much for Barry's umpteenth vow, made just yesterday, not to respond to me. This is the way he usually sneaks back in, by ostensibly responding to someone else who has responded to me and demonizing me in those comments, without mentioning my name. But he doesn't normally start quite *this* quickly.) Judy, can you spell paranoia? Geez. Now even *third* party messages by Barry are attempts to demonize you. As a public service, I am calling on you to state here and now how many messages removed from your original message Barry's observations have to be before you'll give up on attempts to get something started again. Sal
[FairfieldLife] Good Contacts for Hindus
So I thought I would recommend some contactable sources for traditional, though generally Shakta oriented Hindutva. The saint Shree Maa can be reached as well as Swami Satyananda Saraswati at www.shreemaa.org/ . Also Swami Amritananda Saraswati and Ammaji at www.vi1.org . I also recommed for services Ben Collins at www.puja.net And also my friend the purohitam Dr. Kollur Iyer at www.hindupurohit.com As well as my friend Sanjay at Kalighat - www.kalighat.net He is especially good if you want someone to go to some rare temple in India for you and offer puja or homa. Like I had him go to Kamakhya and Tara Peeth.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: So how much?
How to talk to someone who omits such necessary details. Is this some sort of charade to you? :) - Original Message - From: nablusoss1008 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 11:57 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: So how much? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Kirk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You're good at naming numbers. For that reason I find your opinions unsupported. And how to characterize someone who doesn't even inquire what currency I'm referring to ? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Kirk kirk_bernhardt@ wrote: Is in Swami Brahmananda Trust? My guess is about 2,5 billion To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links
[FairfieldLife] Re: On KRUU this morning
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Kinda like only Jews can make Jewish jokes. Only longtime ru's can say anything bad about the TMO or MMY because they actually know what they're talking about. I certainly wasn't implying that the radio guy wasn't entitled to say bad things about the TMO. It's just that during the times I'm likely to listen to KRUU, it's always music that's playing, and I was surprised to hear a reading of the Kaplan letter. I'm curious to know what his story is and why he would be motivated to read the Kaplan letter over the air at 4:30am. As for Kaplan, I think he very well could have some legit grievances WRT movement finances, but telling roos that they're brainwashed while spewing ridiculous, decades old, unsubstantiated conspiracies says to me that he's just as brainwashed as any roo; he's just getting his brainwashing from a different bunch of kooks, now. --- Alex Stanley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I woke up this morning some time after 4am, turned on the broadband communications receiver I keep by my bed (an AOR AR-3000A) and started scrolling through my station presets, which is a bunch of AM, FM, and shortwave stations. I hit KRUU, and there was a guy reading that kooky Kaplan letter from several years ago. I checked the KRUU program schedule, and it was a program called 'Rasta Roots' hosted by Joel Zimmerman. http://www.kruufm.com/node/13 He couldn't pronounce Shankaracharya properly, and he pronounced Patanjali pah-ton-JAH-li, so I doubt the guy was ever a roo. Does anyone here know this guy?
[FairfieldLife] Re: youtube -- photo tribute to Maharishi Mahesh Yogi
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak geezerfreak@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: I see...so you were just being a dick again Off No, that would be you Curtis because only talentless people criticize non-profit innocent work. No-one with talent would do that. It is one thing to criticize professional work, but to act like an art- critic for simple expressions is just the sign of a complete has-been wannabe artist (by the way, when it comes to visual arts I am light years ahead of you guitar boy - I make about $60,000 a year out of it) OffWorld Still with Off on this one Judith? Just checking. Are you perhaps imagining something here, geeze? This is you 2 hours ago: Judy: I have to agree with off_world on this. The guy obviously put a lot of work and feeling into the video. I didn't like the star fades either, but they didn't get that much in the way of enjoying this remarkable collection of photos. If the fades irritated you so much that you just couldn't keep yourself from remarking on them, there are lots of ways you could have done so without seeming to mock the fellow.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Experience Query
I have had this experience now twice. The first time scared the bejeezus out of me. This was maybe 6 years back. I was sitting at the kitchen table eating breakfast and I looked outside. When I looked away I had flashes of lights in front of me. I thought it was persistence of vision from looking out the bright window. But the flickering disturbance in my vision continued and it grew. I went into the bedroom and put the covers over my head. The hallucination persisted with my eyes closed. I had no headache. I thought this was the end of normal vision for the rest of my life. After a half an hour the lights went away. I was relieved. I saw my doctor and an ophthalmologist that morning. It was explained that it was an optical migraine and was due to inflammation of the tissue near the optic nerve. Thus it effects vision without causing any pain. Since then I have talked to others with the same experience. Some people believe stress exacerbates the event. The next time it occurred I was walking down a street in Vancouver with my sister. This time I knew what it was, sat down, observed it, understood it, and continued on with the day. I would not read any mystical value in this experience as did Paul on the road to Damascus. That lost soul started a whole religion based on optic nerve inflammation. How many people died because of that mistake? I believe it was my TM practice that gives me the ability to distance myself from these experiences and confront them rationally rather than applying fantasy and myth. Perhaps if I was a little more advanced I would not have had the fear from the first experience, but I was able to regroup quickly. s.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Deepak, Maharishi, and doctor-patient confidentiality
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ruthsimplicity [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer rick@ wrote: From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of shempmcgurk Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 8:09 AM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Deepak, Maharishi, and doctor- patient confidentiality ...but that legal twilight zone is centered around two issues: 1) is it only the deceased that can give permission to the physician to divulge; or 2) is it the estate of the deceased. And in neither of the above cases would Deepak get that permission. In #1, MMY is dead and in #2 it is unlikely because the TMO doesn't like Chopra. There is virtually no question whether it is a case of the doctor unilaterally deciding to divulge...unless you know something I don't? Even if he had no right to act unilaterally, odds are that there is no remedy for the wrong. What are the relatives going to do? Sue him for damages? What are the damages? What is the legal claim? Maybe he breached a duty to MMY, but he doesn't have a duty to MMY's relatives. He can't be disciplined by a medical board--he gave up his license. I think he could be. He may not have a license now, but he did when he treated MMY. And just because you give up your license doesn't mean your responsibilities disappear.
[FairfieldLife] Re: youtube -- photo tribute to Maharishi Mahesh Yogi
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: I see...so you were just being a dick again Off No, that would be you Curtis because only talentless people criticize non-profit innocent work. No-one with talent would do that. It is one thing to criticize professional work, but to act like an art- critic for simple expressions is just the sign of a complete has-been wannabe artist (by the way, when it comes to visual arts I am light years ahead of you guitar boy - I make about $60,000 a year out of it) OffWorld Still with Off on this one Judith? Just checking. Are you perhaps imagining something here, geeze?
[FairfieldLife] Re: 4 good movies I saw last weekend, and a great TV series
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sandiego108 sandiego108@ wrote: It is rare for me to see 4 winners in a row: 3:10 to Yuma (or as I've come to call it, 3:10 to Yuma; the Christ parable-- you'll see why-- its still quite good though) Interesting. I'm following up because I liked the movie, and have now seen it twice. At no point did I ever perceive it as a parable based on the Christ story, and try as I might, I can't imagine that now that you've brought it up. Can you explain a little what you saw in the movie that made you see it that way? I'm not being snarky here. I'm a real movie freak, and I honestly don't see anything the least bit Christ-like or parable-like about this film. The Ninth Configuration? Sure. But 3:10 To Yuma? I just don't see it, and would love to know how you see it that way. I did think it was a neat Western, very much in the tradition of High Noon. It was in fact originally *written* at the same time that High Noon came out, and appeared in Western penny magazines; this movie was a remake as I under- stand it. first off, yeah, great western in the original tradition of westerns. i can believe it was a remake-- certainly had that feel to it. and perhaps my comparison is a little facile. anyway, first the good character (Jason Bateman) turning the other cheek repeatedly, looking at the good in all men, playing fair, etc. then it hit me again when he (Jason) was shot to death at the end, and through his death, the bad guy (Russell Crowe) achieves salvation of sorts, or at least kills all the badder guys. so point for point perhaps not an exact parable, but it did have some christ story type elements. since we're talking media, you really ought to check out Breaking Bad when you get a chance-- no doubt it will DVD after this first season. really dark and *really* funny. the characters are all lovable goofballs, even the slimier ones. one of the best westerns i've ever seen, since the westerns era ended was silverado-- Kevin Costner makes his mark.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Deepak Chopra: The Maharishi Years - The Untold Story: Recollections of a Fo
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Houston, I think we have a problem. At the very least, Chopra has some questions to answer. In addition to Chopra's contradictory stories about why the Beatles left Rishikesh, and the apparent falsehoods in Chopra's latest article about MMY being out of circulation for a year beginning in August 1991--plus the very odd poison idea-- might as well throw this into the mix. It was posted by do.rflex back in November. He said it was the account of some anonymous observers, but that it had been confirmed to him by one of Chopra's assistants. Not quite the same picture Chopra paints in his latest story: As I understand it, Chopra went to Maharishi and complained about the integrity of the activities of the people in his (Maharishi's) organization. Chopra had also been chastised publicly by a Maharishi big-wig for stating his own views that contradicted current TM organization policy - and which had 'publicly' compromised Chopra's 'authority'. This was also presented to Maharishi by Chopra. ...As I was told, the meeting between Maharishi and Chopra was very strained. Maharishi was grim and Chopra was insistent. Chopra made his case by saying I am an intelligent human being and I see that what these people under you are doing is wrong. I can not any longer participate in this without you doing something about it. And Maharishi told him, I am your master. You will do what I say. Chopra said, I cannot accept that you refuse to see the reckless behaviour of these people. Maharishi repeated, I am your master. You will do what I say. Chopra looked at him and said, You are not my master. I am my own master. And he walked out of the room.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Deepak Chopra: The Maharishi Years - The Untold Story: Recollections of a Fo
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Kirk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Maharishi, after all, did the same thing. We have NO IDEA what the real story of Guru Dev was. All we have is Maharishi's view of who and what he was. And that view is often at odds with the view of other people who were students of Guru Dev's at the same time Mahesh was. The only reason that most of us have any kind of official view of who and what Guru Dev was is because MMY's was in many cases the *only* view we ever heard. Safe to say that if it wasn't for Maharishi then we would not have heard of Guru Dev as he would have just been another saint in the long Hindu list. I personally do not believe that Maharishi has outdone the Shankaracharyas. It's negotiable which is the more important victory for him, that is, to get the Shanks to think Westerners should be allowed to be Hindus, or that Hindus should be allowed to become Westerners. Because we aren't normally allowed within range of many yajnas at all. The effect Maharishi had was to unite the world at least a few more ways. I believe that the course participants now are experiencing some of the Vedic ability as based in the real traditional yajnas being held now. Especially in Varanasi. I had the benefit of working with Ben Collins puja group and a couple others last year and I can speak to the power of the attention of real Hindu (and Buddhist) priests. They have powerful concentration which alone with one as the focus, or whomever recipient can feel. As for whether I believe in the gods or the power alone of human attention it is great. Rituals may well be psychocognitive coherence makers due to synchronized attentions and intentions. I actually almost went totally crazy during that time. I think I had something like literally 15 yajnas lined up for last Akshaya Tritiya. Fucking intense. I was literally insomniac for five months. I mean totally. I burned the pujas out. I can't even do one now or it's too much for me. I had yajnas done to erase slavery, to create peace in the east, to make my gurus, many Buddhist, live longer, to enrich New Orleans and the Gulf South, and to attract merit to said same. Finally I did some Bhudevi yajnas for all beings. I met a lama and he told me to do all pujas for all beings. So I started doing that. man was it fucking intense. One Sunday morning I felt this peace so great. But then the swing to feeling like I was in hell. It was all really really intense. My point. I forget. Oh yeah. Oh Yeah, I also under the auspices of the Kanchi Shank and other Sri Vidya devotees was the only white guy out of a hundred Hindus to be in the first Saundaraya Lahiri Japa Yajna under Sri Harshanand, rising young guruji. But oh yeah. Shakti is in control, not Maharishi or his followers. I had a dream the other night where a middle aged black woman of average looks was bowed to by everybody including myself, and when she walked towards me I got a hardon. The next day I saw this picture of Mahakali riding Shiva. So I thought some funny things about Bevans proclaimation that Maharishi has turned Kali to Sat quite interesting. I had quite a few dreams during this last week, all with black people in them, all seeming to say that Shakti is the source of all power, not Maharishi. I had one dream where a small black boy was trying to get a woman to dance but she wasn't buying. She was staying out of frame and unseen. Not dancing. So I have to praise Mahakali as Buddha first and Mahakali as Herself second before Mahakali as Maharishi third or fourth or whatever. Guru dev was Mahakali, as Shodashi, as are all the great gurus of the Shanks. Yoni Goddess, circular source of endless perfection and power. Without Shakti Shiva is Shava. Jai Ma. No shit?
