[FairfieldLife] Re: David Lynch in today's Guardian
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com , Hugo richardhughes103@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com , off_world_beings no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com , Hugo richardhughes103@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com , curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: Some forms of meditation are just contemplation or concentration; they'll keep you on the surface. You won't transcend: you won't get that fourth state of consciousness and you won't get that bliss. You'll stay on the surface. Having admitted that he only contemplated different meditations and only practiced TM this is a curious claim. I wonder where he might have gotten such information... It's an insidious bit of brainwashing that is. I swallowed it and only learned otherwise when I started practising different types of meditation easily and effortlessly. You don't even understand basic English and logic. IF you are contemplating, THEN you are not experiencing what is transcendent to contemplation. IF you are not transcending thought (and all activity), THEN you are in the field of activity, and are not able to transcend it. This is basic English language that has been around for centuries, even thousands of years in Western philosophical (and Eastern) traditions. Maharishi did not invent this language. You can't mix the terms. Transcending is transcending, and contempalting, mindfulness, and conentration...ARE NOT. This is basic fucking English, and you people don't get it. Confession time. I remember going into a Krisha Temple and adopting the patronising and superior air of the True Believer Which shows what kind of person you really are, and why MANY people left the TM movement because of pretentious people like you who are now out and ranting pretentiously about it, leaving the decent people still in the TM movement. OffWorld What's your beef Offworld?. I've found out that Barry and Vaj are right by my own experimenting with different techniques, I've been amazed that I can transcend to an exquisite place just by shifting my attention slightly. So?.. who cares about your own personal experience? Nobody. In the meantime WW III can start while you claim hundreds of studies are NOT important. What is not important is people's personal experiences that are uncorroborated in masses of studies. THAT is NOT important. Might as well pray to the spagetthi monstor and tell people it is good. Without vast amount of published research it is irrelevane. So come on OffWorld why do you object so much? Because WW3 is starting you stupid #%$@, and the body of scientific evidence is there to prevent that, and even if it WRONG, it is the only body of evidence that can be used for this argument for meditation for world peace (and it appears to be largely valid, so it is worth a try.) Other than that, the world is going to hell in a handbasket so fast, you will not have sceintific world anymore, to prove your meditation is good for anything. Good luck with your New World Entropy. OffWorld If you are meditating simply for world peace good luck to you, and the world. Seems to me that any sort of transcendence would have the same effect on the surroundings. But I doubt that is anything at all personally, if TM and yagyas were so good I doubt we would have gotten ourselves into this mess to start with.
[FairfieldLife] Re: David Lynch in today's Guardian
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Hugo richardhughes103@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: Some forms of meditation are just contemplation or concentration; they'll keep you on the surface. You won't transcend: you won't get that fourth state of consciousness and you won't get that bliss. You'll stay on the surface. Having admitted that he only contemplated different meditations and only practiced TM this is a curious claim. I wonder where he might have gotten such information... It's an insidious bit of brainwashing that is. I swallowed it and only learned otherwise when I started practising different types of meditation easily and effortlessly. Yup. Been there, done that, remember the shock of realizing that what I had been saying in intro and advanced lectures for 14 years was simply not true. I had walked away from the TMO some time earlier, but still carried with me a lot of its dogma, so it took some effort on my part to break out of the effortlessness thang and practice a form of concentration meditation. But when I did -- what a shock! My experience of transcendence was clearer than any I had previously experienced with TM. And I could get to it any time I wanted to, at will, not just sit around and wait for it to appear. What a moment of cognitive dissonance THAT was for me. Confession time. I remember going into a Krisha Temple and and adopting the patronising and superior air of the True Believer saying to a TM friend Well, they're very nice people but they don't get the coherence do they. Sigh. I'd slap me if said that now. It's one of the toughest aspects of the TMO condi- tioning to get over. So MUCH of the dogma was about elitism -- TM was the best, and ALL other techniques were inferior, and the tendency to reinterpret all other spiritual teachings in history in terms of TM, such that that's what Christ and Buddha were really teaching -- that it's really tough to get past that and back into Beginner's Mind. We were all taught for so many years (or decades) that we were NOT beginners. We were, in fact, advanced, Governors of the Age of Enlightenment. We were the ELITE, those who trod the highest path. That's some heavy conditioning TO get past. Boy, I must have been part of a different Movement and attended different classes than Barry and Hugo. Where and when were you taught that all other techniques were inferior? I never was. Sure, there were people AROUND me that were certainly like that but me and my friends would, appropriately, just roll our eyes at them. Take a superior attitude towards other practises? Heck, 90% of everyone I ever met in TM did something else and would, more than not, speak of the other teachers or practises with pride and respect. You must have been with a different group Shemp. Every book I ever read by a TMer ever teacher I ever spoke to said the same thing TM is not the only way but the fastest way And the story I give elsewhere about other techniques being straining and only having an effect in spite of themselves is standard TM dogma. I forgot to mention in my sneering at the Buddhist story that the guy had been trained in Tibetan meitation by the guy who taught the Dalai Lama, and there was me with my *3 months* of TM thinking I was superior in some way. Seems unreal now, I had a good chuckle about that. I know a few who are interested in other types of things like Reiki but not meditation. And I know other TMers who sneer at them for not just trusting MMY technologies what a sad state of affairs. not actual meditation
[FairfieldLife] Re: David Lynch in today's Guardian
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ruthsimplicity [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: Take a superior attitude towards other practises? Heck, 90% of everyone I ever met in TM did something else and would, more than not, speak of the other teachers or practises with pride and respect. Then why are the guys who mess with other stuff, like lady saints and joytish, banned from the domes? I guess because it's better if a group is all doing the same thing. I actually agree that the domes should be TM only and I wouldn't try and do something else there, it's just being deliberately disruptive and spoils someone elses good time. And there is also arrogance there because I would just be *assuming* that it doesn't affect their programme in some way. I think it best just to go somewhere else if you have a new thing to do. My TB friends say other practices are fine but it will take you many lifetimes to get where TM gets you. Superhighway stuff. But how do they know? This is another example of TM dogma stopping you trying anything else, think about how powerful a statement that is: TM is whole *lifetimes* faster than other techniques.
[FairfieldLife] Re: David Lynch in today's Guardian
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ruthsimplicity [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: Take a superior attitude towards other practises? Heck, 90% of everyone I ever met in TM did something else and would, more than not, speak of the other teachers or practises with pride and respect. Then why are the guys who mess with other stuff, like lady saints and joytish, banned from the domes? Because the TMO has become a cult. See the Maharishi quote below... My TB friends say other practices are fine but it will take you many lifetimes to get where TM gets you. Superhighway stuff. Then what is the harm in your TB friends saying that? Indeed, if anyone feels that they have a spiritual practise that is beneficial to them they can incorporate it into their lives along with TM: Maharishi, March 12, 1974: What we teach is something to be done 15, 20 minutes morning and evening. Regarding other things? We have no opinion. We leave a man to do what he wants to do. We just teach Transcendental Meditation, give the knowledge of the pure creative intelligence. What he should do, what he should not do, he will decide in his own level of consciousness. Nothing, neither we advice on religion, nor diets, nor anything, do's and don'ts we don't talk about. Simply, innocently teach the practice, give the knowledge pertaining to the practice, satisfy all the doubt and questions regarding understanding and then leave the man to be with his tradition, with his culture, with his way of life, with everything that he wants to do. Just 15 minutes morning and evening. He can practice hundreds of meditations, we don't mind. As long as he does this 15-minutes, 20- minutes morning and evening, he will enjoy, begin to enjoy everything that he will do, either meditation or no meditation or whatever. Whatever he will do in life, he will begin to enjoy more because everything will become more meaningful. Just we concern ourselves with this practical aspect of this science. Simple. Very simple, very natural.
[FairfieldLife] Re: David Lynch in today's Guardian
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Hugo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Hugo richardhughes103@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: Some forms of meditation are just contemplation or concentration; they'll keep you on the surface. You won't transcend: you won't get that fourth state of consciousness and you won't get that bliss. You'll stay on the surface. Having admitted that he only contemplated different meditations and only practiced TM this is a curious claim. I wonder where he might have gotten such information... It's an insidious bit of brainwashing that is. I swallowed it and only learned otherwise when I started practising different types of meditation easily and effortlessly. Yup. Been there, done that, remember the shock of realizing that what I had been saying in intro and advanced lectures for 14 years was simply not true. I had walked away from the TMO some time earlier, but still carried with me a lot of its dogma, so it took some effort on my part to break out of the effortlessness thang and practice a form of concentration meditation. But when I did -- what a shock! My experience of transcendence was clearer than any I had previously experienced with TM. And I could get to it any time I wanted to, at will, not just sit around and wait for it to appear. What a moment of cognitive dissonance THAT was for me. Confession time. I remember going into a Krisha Temple and and adopting the patronising and superior air of the True Believer saying to a TM friend Well, they're very nice people but they don't get the coherence do they. Sigh. I'd slap me if said that now. It's one of the toughest aspects of the TMO condi- tioning to get over. So MUCH of the dogma was about elitism -- TM was the best, and ALL other techniques were inferior, and the tendency to reinterpret all other spiritual teachings in history in terms of TM, such that that's what Christ and Buddha were really teaching -- that it's really tough to get past that and back into Beginner's Mind. We were all taught for so many years (or decades) that we were NOT beginners. We were, in fact, advanced, Governors of the Age of Enlightenment. We were the ELITE, those who trod the highest path. That's some heavy conditioning TO get past. Boy, I must have been part of a different Movement and attended different classes than Barry and Hugo. Where and when were you taught that all other techniques were inferior? I never was. Sure, there were people AROUND me that were certainly like that but me and my friends would, appropriately, just roll our eyes at them. Take a superior attitude towards other practises? Heck, 90% of everyone I ever met in TM did something else and would, more than not, speak of the other teachers or practises with pride and respect. You must have been with a different group Shemp. Every book I ever read by a TMer ever teacher I ever spoke to said the same thing TM is not the only way but the fastest way And the story I give elsewhere about other techniques being straining and only having an effect in spite of themselves is standard TM dogma. Well, that's their opinion, isn't it? And they are entitled to it. Personally, I think TM is the fastest...obviously, if I felt that there was something better and faster I'd be doing it! But that would be true for every self-improvement program. Again, if someone has something that they feel is of benefit to them, go ahead and do it...as I've reproduced here already on this thread, I don't see the harm in doing other techniques as long as you're regular in your TM practise. And Maharishi agrees with that. I forgot to mention in my sneering at the Buddhist story that the guy had been trained in Tibetan meitation by the guy who taught the Dalai Lama, and there was me with my *3 months* of TM thinking I was superior in some way. But that's a reflection on you, not the TMO. If your mind was SO weak as to incorporate such a worldview, why blame the TMO? Even if they set up the conditions for you to come to that point in your life, that's a function of YOUR weakness, not their's. Don't blame someone else for your own faults. When I came across people like you describe yourself in the TMO, I rolled my eyes and stayed the hell away from them. Seems unreal now, I had a good chuckle about that. I know a few who are interested in other types of things like Reiki but not meditation. And I know other TMers who sneer at them for not just trusting
[FairfieldLife] Re: David Lynch in today's Guardian
Maharishi, March 12, 1974: Shemp are you in a time machine? This quote had NOTHING to do with the movement that evolved after this era of TM only teaching. He went on to contradict every part of this quote. This teaching was replaced. The movement also became militant about people practicing other techniques to the point of blacklisting people from coming to courses or practicing in the dome. Maharishi was NOT a care-free hippie. He only used that persona for marketing during one period of time. This is a dead horse I know but you are constantly using the perspective of one era of hid teaching to try to invalidate his own instructions that came afterwards. It is retro-odd. Old-timey nonsense. Nostalgia for a simpler, more innocent time run amuck. Maharishi was a control freak who got the exact movement he wanted right to the end. If someone displeased him he just blew them out if they wouldn't change with the times. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ruthsimplicity no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: Take a superior attitude towards other practises? Heck, 90% of everyone I ever met in TM did something else and would, more than not, speak of the other teachers or practses with pride and respect. Then why are the guys who mess with other stuff, like lady saints and joytish, banned from the domes? Because the TMO has become a cult. See the Maharishi quote below... My TB friends say other practices are fine but it will take you many lifetimes to get where TM gets you. Superhighway stuff. Then what is the harm in your TB friends saying that? Indeed, if anyone feels that they have a spiritual practise that is beneficial to them they can incorporate it into their lives along with TM: Maharishi, March 12, 1974: What we teach is something to be done 15, 20 minutes morning and evening. Regarding other things? We have no opinion. We leave a man to do what he wants to do. We just teach Transcendental Meditation, give the knowledge of the pure creative intelligence. What he should do, what he should not do, he will decide in his own level of consciousness. Nothing, neither we advice on religion, nor diets, nor anything, do's and don'ts we don't talk about. Simply, innocently teach the practice, give the knowledge pertaining to the practice, satisfy all the doubt and questions regarding understanding and then leave the man to be with his tradition, with his culture, with his way of life, with everything that he wants to do. Just 15 minutes morning and evening. He can practice hundreds of meditations, we don't mind. As long as he does this 15-minutes, 20- minutes morning and evening, he will enjoy, begin to enjoy everything that he will do, either meditation or no meditation or whatever. Whatever he will do in life, he will begin to enjoy more because everything will become more meaningful. Just we concern ourselves with this practical aspect of this science. Simple. Very simple, very natural.
[FairfieldLife] Re: David Lynch in today's Guardian
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Hugo richardhughes103@ wrote: You must have been with a different group Shemp. Every book I ever read by a TMer ever teacher I ever spoke to said the same thing TM is not the only way but the fastest way And the story I give elsewhere about other techniques being straining and only having an effect in spite of themselves is standard TM dogma. Well, that's their opinion, isn't it? And they are entitled to it. Personally, I think TM is the fastest...obviously, if I felt that there was something better and faster I'd be doing it! Other techniques aren't really something you can *feel* are better than TM without actually practising or at least studying them are they? But that would be true for every self-improvement program. Again, if someone has something that they feel is of benefit to them, go ahead and do it...as I've reproduced here already on this thread, I don't see the harm in doing other techniques as long as you're regular in your TM practise. And Maharishi agrees with that. I read that and while it's interesting I don't really think it's an exhortation to try anything you like. Maybe in the early days he said stuff like that to get as many throught the door as possible, you'll find that now he has bought all the other vedic stuff back to life it's all you'll get recommended. Besides, you could probably find a MMY quote to justify anything you like. I remember someone asking him about the value of other techniques and he said It's better to have a small piece of the pie than none of it. I've found the TMO to be very suspicious about other techniques, when I worked at an academy we had a volunteer to help with a flying course who did all sorts of things and he was asked to keep quiet about it in case he upset the apple cart by letting people know you can get there without TM. I just don't see how you've stayed unpolluted by these beliefs. Maybe you don't mix much with other TMers? I forgot to mention in my sneering at the Buddhist story that the guy had been trained in Tibetan meitation by the guy who taught the Dalai Lama, and there was me with my *3 months* of TM thinking I was superior in some way. But that's a reflection on you, not the TMO. If your mind was SO weak as to incorporate such a worldview, why blame the TMO? Even if they set up the conditions for you to come to that point in your life, that's a function of YOUR weakness, not their's. Don't blame someone else for your own faults. When I came across people like you describe yourself in the TMO, I rolled my eyes and stayed the hell away from them. Interesting idea, but I'm not sure my mind was *so* weak, the only problem really is that I didn't get trained in anything else and just accepted the TM dogma as the truth because I was having good experiences with it. Cultmania is a powerful force. I got hooked but I wriggled free, and I never even realised they had me at all til this post started. Denial is another powerful force too, especially when you've a weak mind :-) I really don't see how you avoided MMYs lecture on why TM is superior to buddhism and Hinduism, in fact everything else, but you must have. Seems unreal now, I had a good chuckle about that. I know a few who are interested in other types of things like Reiki but not meditation. And I know other TMers who sneer at them for not just trusting MMY technologies Birds of a feather. You're attracting TMers like that because you were like that, at least according to what you write above. Nice try, but it doesn't work like that. I always thought most of MMYs teachings were rubbish or at least just a religion that I didn't need to go along with. I didn't even enjoy his lectures, the whole vedic belief system raised more questions than answers for me, but I got suckered with the TM is best line. Live and learn. Look, the TMO has become a cult. It attracts cult-prone personality types, such as what you describe above. I am sad about that. But the bottom line is it does not affect my TM daily practise. Indeed, as I've written here many times, it is my firm conviction that 90% of the people at MUM and at the cult compound in Holland don't even practise the TM Program. It's an interesting idea you have about that but I think if everyone had your attitude to it it wouldn't have got off the ground. MMY must've loved the people he got to work with him, if he thought they were off the programme and getting cultish he would have stopped it at some point wouldn't he? Besides, all of it was his idea. It's not like Christianity that has been invented since he died. Are you sure you're not in denial about something yourself with this? You seem to have a rather unique view about it all. I think it was always a cult, simply because it's a
[FairfieldLife] Re: David Lynch in today's Guardian
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Maharishi, March 12, 1974: Shemp are you in a time machine? I suppose I am... This quote had NOTHING to do with the movement that evolved after this era of TM only teaching. Well, yes, that's the whole point... He went on to contradict every part of this quote. I know! Again, that's the whole point I was trying to make. But the TM Program is the path I am on. Everything the movement as in terms of assets is, essentially, the house that the TM Program built...that ol' time TM that I practise! This teaching was replaced. The movement also became militant about people practicing other techniques to the point of blacklisting people from coming to courses or practicing in the dome. Yeah...and your point is? Maharishi was NOT a care-free hippie. I don't get the reference to Maharishi being a hippie...if anything, he became a hippie in the later years, NOT in the '70s when I started. He only used that persona for marketing during one period of time. This is a dead horse I know but you are constantly using the perspective of one era of hid teaching to try to invalidate his own instructions that came afterwards. But Curtis, this is the path that I am on. It is in direct contradiction to the current path of the TMO. And it's lonely being the only game in town. It is retro-odd. Old-timey nonsense. Nostalgia for a simpler, more innocent time run amuck. Maharishi was a control freak who got the exact movement he wanted right to the end. If someone displeased him he just blew them out if they wouldn't change with the times. Okay, assuming he was a control-freak and all the rest that you say...again, how does that affect MY practise of the TM Program and the effectiveness of it? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ruthsimplicity no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: Take a superior attitude towards other practises? Heck, 90% of everyone I ever met in TM did something else and would, more than not, speak of the other teachers or practses with pride and respect. Then why are the guys who mess with other stuff, like lady saints and joytish, banned from the domes? Because the TMO has become a cult. See the Maharishi quote below... My TB friends say other practices are fine but it will take you many lifetimes to get where TM gets you. Superhighway stuff. Then what is the harm in your TB friends saying that? Indeed, if anyone feels that they have a spiritual practise that is beneficial to them they can incorporate it into their lives along with TM: Maharishi, March 12, 1974: What we teach is something to be done 15, 20 minutes morning and evening. Regarding other things? We have no opinion. We leave a man to do what he wants to do. We just teach Transcendental Meditation, give the knowledge of the pure creative intelligence. What he should do, what he should not do, he will decide in his own level of consciousness. Nothing, neither we advice on religion, nor diets, nor anything, do's and don'ts we don't talk about. Simply, innocently teach the practice, give the knowledge pertaining to the practice, satisfy all the doubt and questions regarding understanding and then leave the man to be with his tradition, with his culture, with his way of life, with everything that he wants to do. Just 15 minutes morning and evening. He can practice hundreds of meditations, we don't mind. As long as he does this 15-minutes, 20- minutes morning and evening, he will enjoy, begin to enjoy everything that he will do, either meditation or no meditation or whatever. Whatever he will do in life, he will begin to enjoy more because everything will become more meaningful. Just we concern ourselves with this practical aspect of this science. Simple. Very simple, very natural.
[FairfieldLife] Re: David Lynch in today's Guardian
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ruthsimplicity no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: Take a superior attitude towards other practises? Heck, 90% of everyone I ever met in TM did something else and would, more than not, speak of the other teachers or practises with pride and respect. Then why are the guys who mess with other stuff, like lady saints and joytish, banned from the domes? Because the TMO has become a cult. See the Maharishi quote below... My TB friends say other practices are fine but it will take you many lifetimes to get where TM gets you. Superhighway stuff. Then what is the harm in your TB friends saying that? Indeed, if anyone feels that they have a spiritual practise that is beneficial to them they can incorporate it into their lives along with TM: Maharishi, March 12, 1974: What we teach is something to be done 15, 20 minutes morning and evening. Regarding other things? We have no opinion. We leave a man to do what he wants to do. We just teach Transcendental Meditation, give the knowledge of the pure creative intelligence. What he should do, what he should not do, he will decide in his own level of consciousness. Nothing, neither we advice on religion, nor diets, nor anything, do's and don'ts we don't talk about. Simply, innocently teach the practice, give the knowledge pertaining to the practice, satisfy all the doubt and questions regarding understanding and then leave the man to be with his tradition, with his culture, with his way of life, with everything that he wants to do. Just 15 minutes morning and evening. He can practice hundreds of meditations, we don't mind. As long as he does this 15-minutes, 20- minutes morning and evening, he will enjoy, begin to enjoy everything that he will do, either meditation or no meditation or whatever. Whatever he will do in life, he will begin to enjoy more because everything will become more meaningful. Just we concern ourselves with this practical aspect of this science. Simple. Very simple, very natural. Ah...Happy days. That was lovely, wasn't it.
[FairfieldLife] Re: David Lynch in today's Guardian
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Indeed, as I've written here many times, it is my firm conviction that 90% of the people at MUM and at the cult compound in Holland don't even practise the TM Program. Fascinating stuff (I am new here so I don't know about those posts). The thing is MMY actually predicted the loss of the simple technique and its innocence. But what stumps me is that he seemed to play a key role in just that process! Or at least I think that he may have done, but then again I don't really know for sure. (Plus for those TB's who thought they should claim TM as the one only, again MMY actually specifically taught that it was one of just several paths - karma yoga - not to mention the fact that I think off-world had a point in saying that any practice that transcends effortlessly is TM. So not necessarily as done thru intro talk/prep talk/fruit+flowers initiation).
[FairfieldLife] Re: David Lynch in today's Guardian
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Hugo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Hugo richardhughes103@ wrote: You must have been with a different group Shemp. Every book I ever read by a TMer ever teacher I ever spoke to said the same thing TM is not the only way but the fastest way And the story I give elsewhere about other techniques being straining and only having an effect in spite of themselves is standard TM dogma. Well, that's their opinion, isn't it? And they are entitled to it. Personally, I think TM is the fastest...obviously, if I felt that there was something better and faster I'd be doing it! Other techniques aren't really something you can *feel* are better than TM without actually practising or at least studying them are they? I haven't tried all the approximately 500 restaurants there are in my city, but I still have my favourites. I still feel my favorite is the best in the city. As for trying all the others? Who the hell has the time? Not having tried all the 1,000s of techniques shouldn't deprive me of the right to say what I feel is best for me. It shouldn't allow me to say this or that is the best there is but I didn't say that...I said personally; for me. But that would be true for every self-improvement program. Again, if someone has something that they feel is of benefit to them, go ahead and do it...as I've reproduced here already on this thread, I don't see the harm in doing other techniques as long as you're regular in your TM practise. And Maharishi agrees with that. I read that and while it's interesting I don't really think it's an exhortation to try anything you like. Maybe in the early days he said stuff like that to get as many throught the door as possible, you'll find that now he has bought all the other vedic stuff back to life it's all you'll get recommended. Then you are espousing a return to the SUCCESSFUL days of TM when it wasn't a religion or a philosophy. I fully endorse your stand. Besides, you could probably find a MMY quote to justify anything you like. I remember someone asking him about the value of other techniques and he said It's better to have a small piece of the pie than none of it. I've found the TMO to be very suspicious about other techniques, when I worked at an academy we had a volunteer to help with a flying course who did all sorts of things and he was asked to keep quiet about it in case he upset the apple cart by letting people know you can get there without TM. I just don't see how you've stayed unpolluted by these beliefs. Just as I don't believe everything I read in the newspapers, I don't believe anything that comes out of the TMO as being from the mouth of God. But maybe here's an explanation to why I've stayed unpolluted: after I'd been meditating just a few years and had just become a teacher there was a phenomenon that occured in my local TM center. An initiator had contacted this psychic healer in Nebraska who could work on your aura just by you sending her/him a letter in the mail (there was probably money involved but I'm not sure 'cause, as you'll see in the story, I never did it). Virtually ever single initiator in that center -- except me -- got involved in it. Indeed, they were even saying that Maharishi had endorsed this thing. Well, I was the only one to say: no, this has nothing to do with TM and, no, Maharishi would NOT like you to be doing it. Well, I was shunned and ostracized. And, as a result, I was hurt. Of course, about a month later the word came from international to stay away from that stuff and I was vindicated. And my point is not that the psychic healer was a bad or wrong thing but that anyone should endorse it just because they heard that Maharishi said it was okay when common sense told you of course he would never do anything like that. So I just stick to the simple teaching and when people -- including Maharishi -- come out with stuff that is contrary to the original teaching, I open my big mouth and say how I feel. It does NOT win me friends nor does it positively influence people. I can't tell you how many people I know in the TMO stay away from me and consider me a nut (of course, through the years, I snicker with glee when many of these very same people quit doing TM and went on to other things...fanatics are usually the first to fold). But I consider THEM the nuts and that they do not do TM. Maybe you don't mix much with other TMers? I'd like to because it's very lonely being the only one in my circle of TM friends who I feel actually DOES TM. It would be nice to be able to get together with like-minded people. When I get together with TMers today, I have to shut my mouth and keep myself in check because I'd
[FairfieldLife] Re: David Lynch in today's Guardian
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Richard M [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: Indeed, as I've written here many times, it is my firm conviction that 90% of the people at MUM and at the cult compound in Holland don't even practise the TM Program. Fascinating stuff (I am new here so I don't know about those posts). The thing is MMY actually predicted the loss of the simple technique and its innocence. But what stumps me is that he seemed to play a key role in just that process! Or at least I think that he may have done, but then again I don't really know for sure. (Plus for those TB's who thought they should claim TM as the one only, again MMY actually specifically taught that it was one of just several paths - karma yoga - not to mention the fact that I think off-world had a point in saying that any practice that transcends effortlessly is TM. So not necessarily as done thru intro talk/prep talk/fruit+flowers initiation). This is something that Rick Archer says as well. Rick, as I understand it, was given a new mantra by a guru he adopted about 10 years ago. But Rick says it is still TM because he uses the mantra as he was instructed to do by Maharishi who, he claims, said that anything as effortless as TM is TM, just as you indicated above. Rick does agree with me, however, when I have pointed it out to him that although what he may do is TM, it is not TM as taught by Maharishi Mahesh Yogi.
[FairfieldLife] Re: David Lynch in today's Guardian
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Maharishi was a control freak who got the exact movement he wanted right to the end. If someone displeased him he just blew them out if they wouldn't change with the times. Aside from it being against the rules in some people's heads here to question the dogma that so much of what Maharishi did was due to him being a control freak (how wonderfully ironic, eh?), is the way MMY ran the movement really any different from the way any large global organization is run? I cannot think of any large company, military or government where this half baked idea of we can challenge anything that changes would be tolerated. If you know differently please correct me, but as far as I've heard, read, and experienced, anyone trying that shit in General Electric, Oracle, the Pentagon, White House or Chinese Communist Party would find his or herself out on the street in short order.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: David Lynch in today's Guardian
sandiego108 wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Maharishi was a control freak who got the exact movement he wanted right to the end. If someone displeased him he just blew them out if they wouldn't change with the times. Aside from it being against the rules in some people's heads here to question the dogma that so much of what Maharishi did was due to him being a control freak (how wonderfully ironic, eh?), is the way MMY ran the movement really any different from the way any large global organization is run? One thing is to understand the Indian mind and culture and what MMY did to make TM more secular probably more to people like Charlie and a few others whispering in his ear. Left to his own devices it might have looked like other more Hindu type groups that sprung up in the early 70's. Just think if you'd joined one of those which were more authentic and traditional and come home to visit your folks in some strange garb. ;-) I hung out with a bunch of teachers and meditators who didn't necessarily follow the rules regarding other paths or studying about it. We knew how to keep it quiet and how to keep things separated out: here is the TM package and here is this or that package. I think it provided a lot more depth to our understanding. When I attended jyotish and ayurvedic symposiums and workshops there were many people from other paths and multiple paths there. Here if I mention the experience of kundalini rising as it did with me there are probably few who have had that experience but at those events it wouldn't have been unusual to find two or three other folks who had a similar experience and more importantly covered by their gurus. Instead of sheltering their members from Indian tradition it appears that knowledge of it tended to ground members of other paths. I cannot think of any large company, military or government where this half baked idea of we can challenge anything that changes would be tolerated. If you know differently please correct me, but as far as I've heard, read, and experienced, anyone trying that shit in General Electric, Oracle, the Pentagon, White House or Chinese Communist Party would find his or herself out on the street in short order. Depends on the company. You should know well that there are some successful SV companies that encourage that because their founders and senior management were wise enough to know they wouldn't get everything right and felt dissent would improve help their product and profitability. However some companies ran into trouble being too democratic.
[FairfieldLife] Re: David Lynch in today's Guardian
Jim, You cut this out of the context that gave it meaning. I was not criticizing Maharishi for running his movement his way. I was refuting Shemp's persistent and cockamamie idea that the movement after 1974 was not Maharishi's choice. That somehow the people around him distorted his message of only TM all the time and turned it into the Vedic bizarre (misspell intentional). --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sandiego108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: snip Maharishi was a control freak who got the exact movement he wanted right to the end. If someone displeased him he just blew them out if they wouldn't change with the times. Aside from it being against the rules in some people's heads here to question the dogma that so much of what Maharishi did was due to him being a control freak (how wonderfully ironic, eh?), is the way MMY ran the movement really any different from the way any large global organization is run? I cannot think of any large company, military or government where this half baked idea of we can challenge anything that changes would be tolerated. If you know differently please correct me, but as far as I've heard, read, and experienced, anyone trying that shit in General Electric, Oracle, the Pentagon, White House or Chinese Communist Party would find his or herself out on the street in short order.
[FairfieldLife] Re: David Lynch in today's Guardian
Some forms of meditation are just contemplation or concentration; they'll keep you on the surface. You won't transcend: you won't get that fourth state of consciousness and you won't get that bliss. You'll stay on the surface. Having admitted that he only contemplated different meditations and only practiced TM this is a curious claim. I wonder where he might have gotten such information... --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, feste37 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 'The pleasure of life grows' Film-maker David Lynch hasn't missed a day of meditation in 34 years. He explains how one experience changed his quality of life forever Thursday July 3, 2008 The Guardian When I first heard about meditation, I had zero interest in it. I wasn't even curious. It sounded like a waste of time. What got me interested, though, was the phrase true happiness lies within. At first, I thought it sounded kind of mean because it doesn't tell you where the within is, or how to get there. But, still, it had a ring of truth. And I began to think that maybe meditation was a way to go within. I looked into meditation, asked some questions, and started contemplating different forms. During my research, my sister called and said she had been doing Transcendental Meditation for six months. There was something in her voice. A change. A quality of happiness. And I thought: That's what I want. So, in July 1973, I went to the Transcendental Meditation centre in Los Angeles and met an instructor. I liked her. She looked like Doris Day. She taught me this technique. She gave me a mantra, which is a sound-vibration-thought. You don't meditate on the meaning of it, but it's a very specific sound-vibration-thought. She took me into a little room to have my first meditation. I sat down, closed my eyes, started this mantra, and it was like I was in an elevator and they cut the cable. Boom! I fell into bliss - pure bliss. And I was just in there. Then the teacher said: It's time to come out; it's been 20 minutes. IT'S ALREADY BEEN 20 MINUTES?! I replied, shocked. And she told me to s!, because there were other people in the centre meditating. It seemed so familiar, but also so new and powerful. After that, I said the word unique should be reserved for this experience. It takes you to an ocean of pure consciousness, pure knowingness. But it's familiar, it's you. And, right away, a sense of happiness emerges - not a goofball happiness but a thick beauty. I have never missed a meditation in 34 years. I meditate once in the morning and again in the afternoon, for about 20 minutes each time. Then I go about the business of my day. And I find that the joy of doing increases. Intuition increases. The pleasure of life grows. And negativity recedes. Some forms of meditation are just contemplation or concentration; they'll keep you on the surface. You won't transcend: you won't get that fourth state of consciousness and you won't get that bliss. You'll stay on the surface. Relaxation techniques can take you a little way in. That's beautiful, but it's not transcending. Transcending is its own unique thing. And why is transcending so easy? Because it's the nature of the mind to go to fields of greater happiness. It naturally wants to go. And the deeper you go, the more there is, until you hit 100% pure bliss. Transcendental Meditation is the vehicle that takes you there. It's the experience that does everything. One of the main things that got me talking publicly about Transcendental Meditation was seeing the difference it can make to kids. Kids are suffering. Stress is hitting them at a younger and younger age. And there are all these different learning disorders that I never even heard about before. At the same time, I saw the results of schools where the students and teachers practise transcendental meditation - where the student learns to dive within and unfold the self, that pure consciousness. Grades go up and test scores improve; students and teachers have less stress, less anxiety. The joy of learning and the joy of teaching increase. My foundation, the David Lynch Foundation for Consciousness-Based Education and World Peace, was set up to help more kids get that kind of experience. We've raised money and given it to schools throughout the world to allow tens of thousands of students to learn to meditate. It's amazing to see kids who do this. Stress just doesn't catch them; it's like water off a duck's back. I am doing this not only for the students' sake, for their own growth of consciousness, but for all of us, because we are like lightbulbs. And like lightbulbs, we can enjoy that brighter light of consciousness within, and also radiate it. I believe that the key to peace is in this. ยท Visit davidlynchfoundation.org and askthedoctors.com for information
[FairfieldLife] Re: David Lynch in today's Guardian
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Some forms of meditation are just contemplation or concentration; they'll keep you on the surface. You won't transcend: you won't get that fourth state of consciousness and you won't get that bliss. You'll stay on the surface. Having admitted that he only contemplated different meditations and only practiced TM this is a curious claim. I wonder where he might have gotten such information... It's an insidious bit of brainwashing that is. I swallowed it and only learned otherwise when I started practising different types of meditation easily and effortlessly. Confession time. I remember going into a Krisha Temple and and adopting the patronising and superior air of the True Believer saying to a TM friend Well, they're very nice people but they don't get the coherence do they. Sigh. I'd slap me if said that now. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, feste37 feste37@ wrote: 'The pleasure of life grows' Film-maker David Lynch hasn't missed a day of meditation in 34 years. He explains how one experience changed his quality of life forever Thursday July 3, 2008 The Guardian When I first heard about meditation, I had zero interest in it. I wasn't even curious. It sounded like a waste of time. What got me interested, though, was the phrase true happiness lies within. At first, I thought it sounded kind of mean because it doesn't tell you where the within is, or how to get there. But, still, it had a ring of truth. And I began to think that maybe meditation was a way to go within. I looked into meditation, asked some questions, and started contemplating different forms. During my research, my sister called and said she had been doing Transcendental Meditation for six months. There was something in her voice. A change. A quality of happiness. And I thought: That's what I want. So, in July 1973, I went to the Transcendental Meditation centre in Los Angeles and met an instructor. I liked her. She looked like Doris Day. She taught me this technique. She gave me a mantra, which is a sound-vibration-thought. You don't meditate on the meaning of it, but it's a very specific sound-vibration-thought. She took me into a little room to have my first meditation. I sat down, closed my eyes, started this mantra, and it was like I was in an elevator and they cut the cable. Boom! I fell into bliss - pure bliss. And I was just in there. Then the teacher said: It's time to come out; it's been 20 minutes. IT'S ALREADY BEEN 20 MINUTES?! I replied, shocked. And she told me to s!, because there were other people in the centre meditating. It seemed so familiar, but also so new and powerful. After that, I said the word unique should be reserved for this experience. It takes you to an ocean of pure consciousness, pure knowingness. But it's familiar, it's you. And, right away, a sense of happiness emerges - not a goofball happiness but a thick beauty. I have never missed a meditation in 34 years. I meditate once in the morning and again in the afternoon, for about 20 minutes each time. Then I go about the business of my day. And I find that the joy of doing increases. Intuition increases. The pleasure of life grows. And negativity recedes. Some forms of meditation are just contemplation or concentration; they'll keep you on the surface. You won't transcend: you won't get that fourth state of consciousness and you won't get that bliss. You'll stay on the surface. Relaxation techniques can take you a little way in. That's beautiful, but it's not transcending. Transcending is its own unique thing. And why is transcending so easy? Because it's the nature of the mind to go to fields of greater happiness. It naturally wants to go. And the deeper you go, the more there is, until you hit 100% pure bliss. Transcendental Meditation is the vehicle that takes you there. It's the experience that does everything. One of the main things that got me talking publicly about Transcendental Meditation was seeing the difference it can make to kids. Kids are suffering. Stress is hitting them at a younger and younger age. And there are all these different learning disorders that I never even heard about before. At the same time, I saw the results of schools where the students and teachers practise transcendental meditation - where the student learns to dive within and unfold the self, that pure consciousness. Grades go up and test scores improve; students and teachers have less stress, less anxiety. The joy of learning and the joy of teaching increase. My foundation, the David Lynch Foundation for Consciousness-Based Education and World Peace, was set up to help more kids get that kind of experience. We've raised money and given it to schools
[FairfieldLife] Re: David Lynch in today's Guardian
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Hugo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: Some forms of meditation are just contemplation or concentration; they'll keep you on the surface. You won't transcend: you won't get that fourth state of consciousness and you won't get that bliss. You'll stay on the surface. Having admitted that he only contemplated different meditations and only practiced TM this is a curious claim. I wonder where he might have gotten such information... It's an insidious bit of brainwashing that is. I swallowed it and only learned otherwise when I started practising different types of meditation easily and effortlessly. Yup. Been there, done that, remember the shock of realizing that what I had been saying in intro and advanced lectures for 14 years was simply not true. I had walked away from the TMO some time earlier, but still carried with me a lot of its dogma, so it took some effort on my part to break out of the effortlessness thang and practice a form of concentration meditation. But when I did -- what a shock! My experience of transcendence was clearer than any I had previously experienced with TM. And I could get to it any time I wanted to, at will, not just sit around and wait for it to appear. What a moment of cognitive dissonance THAT was for me. Confession time. I remember going into a Krisha Temple and and adopting the patronising and superior air of the True Believer saying to a TM friend Well, they're very nice people but they don't get the coherence do they. Sigh. I'd slap me if said that now. It's one of the toughest aspects of the TMO condi- tioning to get over. So MUCH of the dogma was about elitism -- TM was the best, and ALL other techniques were inferior, and the tendency to reinterpret all other spiritual teachings in history in terms of TM, such that that's what Christ and Buddha were really teaching -- that it's really tough to get past that and back into Beginner's Mind. We were all taught for so many years (or decades) that we were NOT beginners. We were, in fact, advanced, Governors of the Age of Enlightenment. We were the ELITE, those who trod the highest path. That's some heavy conditioning TO get past.
[FairfieldLife] Re: David Lynch in today's Guardian
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Some forms of meditation are just contemplation or concentration; they'll keep you on the surface. You won't transcend: you won't get that fourth state of consciousness and you won't get that bliss. You'll stay on the surface. Having admitted that he only contemplated different meditations and only practiced TM this is a curious claim. I wonder where he might have gotten such information... Why is this a curious claim? You don't even understand basic English and logic. IF you are contemplating, THEN you are not experiencing what is transcendent to contemplation. IF you are not transcending thought (and all activity), THEN you are in the field of activity, and are not able to transcend it. This is basic English language that has been around for centuries, even thousands of years in Western philosophical (and Eastern) traditions. Maharishi did not invent this language. You can't mix the terms. Transcending is transcending, and contempalting, mindfulness, and conentration...ARE NOT. This is basic fucking English, and you people don't get it. OffWorld
[FairfieldLife] Re: David Lynch in today's Guardian
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Hugo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: Some forms of meditation are just contemplation or concentration; they'll keep you on the surface. You won't transcend: you won't get that fourth state of consciousness and you won't get that bliss. You'll stay on the surface. Having admitted that he only contemplated different meditations and only practiced TM this is a curious claim. I wonder where he might have gotten such information... It's an insidious bit of brainwashing that is. I swallowed it and only learned otherwise when I started practising different types of meditation easily and effortlessly. You don't even understand basic English and logic. IF you are contemplating, THEN you are not experiencing what is transcendent to contemplation. IF you are not transcending thought (and all activity), THEN you are in the field of activity, and are not able to transcend it. This is basic English language that has been around for centuries, even thousands of years in Western philosophical (and Eastern) traditions. Maharishi did not invent this language. You can't mix the terms. Transcending is transcending, and contempalting, mindfulness, and conentration...ARE NOT. This is basic fucking English, and you people don't get it. Confession time. I remember going into a Krisha Temple and adopting the patronising and superior air of the True Believer Which shows what kind of person you really are, and why MANY people left the TM movement because of pretentious people like you who are now out and ranting pretentiously about it, leaving the decent people still in the TM movement. OffWorld
[FairfieldLife] Re: David Lynch in today's Guardian
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: Some forms of meditation are just contemplation or concentration; they'll keep you on the surface. You won't transcend: you won't get that fourth state of consciousness and you won't get that bliss. You'll stay on the surface. Having admitted that he only contemplated different meditations and only practiced TM this is a curious claim. I wonder where he might have gotten such information... Why is this a curious claim? You don't even understand basic English and logic. IF you are contemplating, THEN you are not experiencing what is transcendent to contemplation. Neither is the process of thinking the mantra and taking it as it comes but it leads to transcendence right? How exactly does he know that none of these practices lead to the same thing? Your point is nonsense and applies equally to the practice of TM then. IF you are not transcending thought (and all activity), THEN you are in the field of activity, and are not able to transcend it. This is basic English language that has been around for centuries, even thousands of years in Western philosophical (and Eastern) traditions. Maharishi did not invent this language. You can't mix the terms. Transcending is transcending, and contempalting, mindfulness, and conentration...ARE NOT. This is basic fucking English, and you people don't get it. OffWorld
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: David Lynch in today's Guardian
On Jul 3, 2008, at 12:34 PM, TurquoiseB wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Hugo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: Some forms of meditation are just contemplation or concentration; they'll keep you on the surface. You won't transcend: you won't get that fourth state of consciousness and you won't get that bliss. You'll stay on the surface. Having admitted that he only contemplated different meditations and only practiced TM this is a curious claim. I wonder where he might have gotten such information... It's an insidious bit of brainwashing that is. I swallowed it and only learned otherwise when I started practising different types of meditation easily and effortlessly. Yup. Been there, done that, remember the shock of realizing that what I had been saying in intro and advanced lectures for 14 years was simply not true. I had walked away from the TMO some time earlier, but still carried with me a lot of its dogma, so it took some effort on my part to break out of the effortlessness thang and practice a form of concentration meditation. But when I did -- what a shock! My experience of transcendence was clearer than any I had previously experienced with TM. And I could get to it any time I wanted to, at will, not just sit around and wait for it to appear. What a moment of cognitive dissonance THAT was for me. Ditto here, and a shocker at the time. It was a shocker because I realized, on some level, I still held onto my precious belief that TM was the fastest boat, the bestest of the best, etc. But once it was transcended, you automatically transcended that belief. I feel that was part of the shock, in addition to fully transcending the interdependently arisen transcendent (despite the fact I'd had clear experiences of transcending for years), I was free and beyond. Immediately any attachment to the technique--and clearly I had accumulated attachment to the technique--fell away. Bye bye. Then I understood why it's not only paramount to not be attached to ANY technique, but to learn to be able to dissolve the technique itself. Ultimately we all will have to leave whatever technique we practice behind. So why not just know how to do that?
[FairfieldLife] Re: David Lynch in today's Guardian
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Hugo richardhughes103@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: Some forms of meditation are just contemplation or concentration; they'll keep you on the surface. You won't transcend: you won't get that fourth state of consciousness and you won't get that bliss. You'll stay on the surface. Having admitted that he only contemplated different meditations and only practiced TM this is a curious claim. I wonder where he might have gotten such information... It's an insidious bit of brainwashing that is. I swallowed it and only learned otherwise when I started practising different types of meditation easily and effortlessly. You don't even understand basic English and logic. IF you are contemplating, THEN you are not experiencing what is transcendent to contemplation. IF you are not transcending thought (and all activity), THEN you are in the field of activity, and are not able to transcend it. This is basic English language that has been around for centuries, even thousands of years in Western philosophical (and Eastern) traditions. Maharishi did not invent this language. You can't mix the terms. Transcending is transcending, and contempalting, mindfulness, and conentration...ARE NOT. This is basic fucking English, and you people don't get it. Confession time. I remember going into a Krisha Temple and adopting the patronising and superior air of the True Believer Which shows what kind of person you really are, and why MANY people left the TM movement because of pretentious people like you who are now out and ranting pretentiously about it, leaving the decent people still in the TM movement. OffWorld What's your beef Offworld?. I've found out that Barry and Vaj are right by my own experimenting with different techniques, I've been amazed that I can transcend to an exquisite place just by shifting my attention slightly. OK it took a few weeks of practise but from day one it did something that TM singulary failed to do and that is give me mental quietness outside of meditation. I love it and the Darwinian selection process that is occuring in me as to which technique to stick with has pretty much been decided. But here's the thing, I'm not attached to it, I don't feel like it defines what I am like TM does it's just one of a few things I know how to do that really seems to work deeply, spontaneously and *every single time*. I still want to learn more about different techniques and will keep following the links and advice of people who have gone beyond the cultish attachment to the TM program that so disturbs me. So come on OffWorld why do you object so much? It's not pretentious to try new stuff. I've still got loads of TM friends. Nobody ever left the movement because of me, though some may have been happy when I stopped showing up but not many, most people can make the distinction between beliefs and personality and surely anyone who judges you as bad because you try something new is an arsehole you'd be better off not knowing.
[FairfieldLife] Re: David Lynch in today's Guardian
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Hugo richardhughes103@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: Some forms of meditation are just contemplation or concentration; they'll keep you on the surface. You won't transcend: you won't get that fourth state of consciousness and you won't get that bliss. You'll stay on the surface. Having admitted that he only contemplated different meditations and only practiced TM this is a curious claim. I wonder where he might have gotten such information... It's an insidious bit of brainwashing that is. I swallowed it and only learned otherwise when I started practising different types of meditation easily and effortlessly. Yup. Been there, done that, remember the shock of realizing that what I had been saying in intro and advanced lectures for 14 years was simply not true. I had walked away from the TMO some time earlier, but still carried with me a lot of its dogma, so it took some effort on my part to break out of the effortlessness thang and practice a form of concentration meditation. But when I did -- what a shock! My experience of transcendence was clearer than any I had previously experienced with TM. And I could get to it any time I wanted to, at will, not just sit around and wait for it to appear. What a moment of cognitive dissonance THAT was for me. Me too, it left me most happy that I'd found something undeniable that didn't require the mantra and falling asleep and all the unstressing. I still actually do TM a bit but getting less all the time as the other types get more interesting. It's like being a pioneer again rather than sticking to the same old thing out of habit. Confession time. I remember going into a Krisha Temple and and adopting the patronising and superior air of the True Believer saying to a TM friend Well, they're very nice people but they don't get the coherence do they. Sigh. I'd slap me if said that now. It's one of the toughest aspects of the TMO condi- tioning to get over. So MUCH of the dogma was about elitism -- TM was the best, and ALL other techniques were inferior, and the tendency to reinterpret all other spiritual teachings in history in terms of TM, such that that's what Christ and Buddha were really teaching -- that it's really tough to get past that and back into Beginner's Mind. It's so well presented in the books isn't it. If you don't know any better the logic of it seems obvious so it just sticks. Even when a Buddhist friend told about the first time he experienced what he termed the void I rationalised it away with MMYs teaching: It happens in spite of the meditation not because of it, the mind strains and strains and finally it snaps briefly into the transcendent to escape - and told myself I was much better off. Didn't tell him of course, I didn't think it my place to pity the unenlightened. Wow, it's all coming back and I always insist on here that I never fell for it all, that I remained detatched from the teachings. Ha! Well I never, I'm glad Curtis set me off on this it's like a voyage of discovery I can dig up some ghosts and lay them to rest. We were all taught for so many years (or decades) that we were NOT beginners. We were, in fact, advanced, Governors of the Age of Enlightenment. We were the ELITE, those who trod the highest path. That's some heavy conditioning TO get past. It's all a learning curve I guess.
[FairfieldLife] Re: David Lynch in today's Guardian
--A lot depends on when and where, independent of the technique. Sure, if you're in a 3 week retreat with some Rinpoche and everybody is meditating, transcendence!. But where's the technique you can take with you, any time, any place; even on a plane? Try Vipassana on a plane. - In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jul 3, 2008, at 12:34 PM, TurquoiseB wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Hugo richardhughes103@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: Some forms of meditation are just contemplation or concentration; they'll keep you on the surface. You won't transcend: you won't get that fourth state of consciousness and you won't get that bliss. You'll stay on the surface. Having admitted that he only contemplated different meditations and only practiced TM this is a curious claim. I wonder where he might have gotten such information... It's an insidious bit of brainwashing that is. I swallowed it and only learned otherwise when I started practising different types of meditation easily and effortlessly. Yup. Been there, done that, remember the shock of realizing that what I had been saying in intro and advanced lectures for 14 years was simply not true. I had walked away from the TMO some time earlier, but still carried with me a lot of its dogma, so it took some effort on my part to break out of the effortlessness thang and practice a form of concentration meditation. But when I did -- what a shock! My experience of transcendence was clearer than any I had previously experienced with TM. And I could get to it any time I wanted to, at will, not just sit around and wait for it to appear. What a moment of cognitive dissonance THAT was for me. Ditto here, and a shocker at the time. It was a shocker because I realized, on some level, I still held onto my precious belief that TM was the fastest boat, the bestest of the best, etc. But once it was transcended, you automatically transcended that belief. I feel that was part of the shock, in addition to fully transcending the interdependently arisen transcendent (despite the fact I'd had clear experiences of transcending for years), I was free and beyond. Immediately any attachment to the technique--and clearly I had accumulated attachment to the technique--fell away. Bye bye. Then I understood why it's not only paramount to not be attached to ANY technique, but to learn to be able to dissolve the technique itself. Ultimately we all will have to leave whatever technique we practice behind. So why not just know how to do that?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: David Lynch in today's Guardian
curtisdeltablues wrote: Some forms of meditation are just contemplation or concentration; they'll keep you on the surface. You won't transcend: you won't get that fourth state of consciousness and you won't get that bliss. You'll stay on the surface. Having admitted that he only contemplated different meditations and only practiced TM this is a curious claim. I wonder where he might have gotten such information... I noticed this too with the extras on Inland Empire when he told one of the crew who had been partying the night before and had a bit of a hangover that they would get him on TM and that would help. But I thought that is so unrealistic these days at the price of TM. Most other groups like Sivananda have their meditation courses around $100 point and are taught on an easily assessable weekend workshop. The days where people had time for the seven steps are long gone.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: David Lynch in today's Guardian
off_world_beings wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Some forms of meditation are just contemplation or concentration; they'll keep you on the surface. You won't transcend: you won't get that fourth state of consciousness and you won't get that bliss. You'll stay on the surface. Having admitted that he only contemplated different meditations and only practiced TM this is a curious claim. I wonder where he might have gotten such information... Why is this a curious claim? You don't even understand basic English and logic. IF you are contemplating, THEN you are not experiencing what is transcendent to contemplation. IF you are not transcending thought (and all activity), THEN you are in the field of activity, and are not able to transcend it. This is basic English language that has been around for centuries, even thousands of years in Western philosophical (and Eastern) traditions. Maharishi did not invent this language. You can't mix the terms. Transcending is transcending, and contempalting, mindfulness, and conentration...ARE NOT. This is basic fucking English, and you people don't get it. OffWorld The real goal of meditation is to get the kundalini to rise so that it opens the crowd chakra and gives you enlightenment. Now that is a bit of a esoteric explanation for the masses but what Indian holy men will tell you. This process, depending on the individual, usually takes some time and needs to be done carefully. Yogic meditation techniques will do this carefully. However the first time I tried meditation, out of a book, several years before I learned TM the kundalini rose and opened the crown chakra. I was very disconcerting to say the least because I had no idea what happened. I guess I must have been sitting around in previous lifetimes practicing meditation that just one session could do this but it has also happened to other folks too.
[FairfieldLife] Re: David Lynch in today's Guardian
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, yifuxero [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --A lot depends on when and where, independent of the technique. Sure, if you're in a 3 week retreat with some Rinpoche and everybody is meditating, transcendence!. But where's the technique you can take with you, any time, any place; even on a plane? Try Vipassana on a plane. I have. Works great, thanks. The experience I alluded to earlier, my first experience with a form of meditation based more on concentration than effortlessness, took place in the Los Angeles Convention Center, surrounded by maybe 1,000 people off the street, connected by nothing more than curiosity and a desire to see the new guy in town on the L.A. spiritual circuit and the willingness to pay 2 dollars each to see him. I approached the evening with more than a little skepticism and more than a little negative mood- making. If I was moodmaking anything, it was that I would feel and experience absolutely NOTHING as a result of seeing this teacher and trying his style of meditation. I was jaded, burned fucking OUT, man. I had walked away from the TMO some years earlier, and didn't want any part of any other spiritual teacher or technique of meditation. I had just come out of the TMO, so I believed that I had meditation down pat, man. I was an expert. I had nothing to learn from this new guy in town. And yet. Just for the hell of it, I suspended disbelief for a short time, and gave his idea of meditation a try, AS HE TAUGHT IT. I didn't try to change it by thinking, He's telling me to focus on X and *stay* focused on it. That CAN'T be right because of everything I already know, so I'll just practice the same old same old laissez-faire technique of focusing on the object of meditation only as long as other thoughts don't intrude. I COULD have done that. A great DEAL of conditioning and programming was telling me to do just that. But for some reason I just said to myself, Self, fuck it. Tonight I'm just gonna go with it, and try doing this technique exactly as taught, in Beginner's Mind. And voila, I had the most smokin' meditations of my entire life, *including* the periods I had spent in what I considered CC on extended TM residence courses. And the result just fuckin' blew my mind. As Vaj and Hugo said, it was *liberating*. The very experience of doing something I had been told COULD NOT POSSIBLY WORK to bring about the extended experience of samadhi, when practiced, brought about the extended experience of samadhi. I spent more time in that three-hour public talk in the L.A. Convention Center in pure, undiluted, thoughtless samadhi than I had spent on 6-week ATR courses in Switzerland. Blew my fuckin' mind, man. Made me realize that I still had things to learn. And that's a *good* experience.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: David Lynch in today's Guardian
On Jul 3, 2008, at 2:42 PM, yifuxero wrote: --A lot depends on when and where, independent of the technique. Sure, if you're in a 3 week retreat with some Rinpoche and everybody is meditating, transcendence!. But where's the technique you can take with you, any time, any place; even on a plane? Try Vipassana on a plane. I was not in a retreat setting, just at home. It doesn't matter where I practice, if I have the intention to practice, that's all that is necessary. Repeatability is excellent. I've tried shamatha, vipassana, shamatha-vipassana, ishta-devata meditation, tantric meditation and open presence meditation on planes, cars, etc. They work fine for me. YMMV.
[FairfieldLife] Re: David Lynch in today's Guardian
--Your repeatability claim has no statistical relevance. Repeatability must cut across large numbers of samples and diverse subjects. - In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jul 3, 2008, at 2:42 PM, yifuxero wrote: --A lot depends on when and where, independent of the technique. Sure, if you're in a 3 week retreat with some Rinpoche and everybody is meditating, transcendence!. But where's the technique you can take with you, any time, any place; even on a plane? Try Vipassana on a plane. I was not in a retreat setting, just at home. It doesn't matter where I practice, if I have the intention to practice, that's all that is necessary. Repeatability is excellent. I've tried shamatha, vipassana, shamatha-vipassana, ishta-devata meditation, tantric meditation and open presence meditation on planes, cars, etc. They work fine for me. YMMV.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: David Lynch in today's Guardian
Maybe for androids and who gives a shit about them? I didn't know the world had turned into a bunch of scientists? It is so funny, being a computer scientist myself, to hear ordinary people talk like they have lab coats on when I know damn well they haven't got a clue what they're talking about. tertonzeno wrote: --Your repeatability claim has no statistical relevance. Repeatability must cut across large numbers of samples and diverse subjects. - In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jul 3, 2008, at 2:42 PM, yifuxero wrote: --A lot depends on when and where, independent of the technique. Sure, if you're in a 3 week retreat with some Rinpoche and everybody is meditating, transcendence!. But where's the technique you can take with you, any time, any place; even on a plane? Try Vipassana on a plane. I was not in a retreat setting, just at home. It doesn't matter where I practice, if I have the intention to practice, that's all that is necessary. Repeatability is excellent. I've tried shamatha, vipassana, shamatha-vipassana, ishta-devata meditation, tantric meditation and open presence meditation on planes, cars, etc. They work fine for me. YMMV.
[FairfieldLife] Re: David Lynch in today's Guardian
--I've published more papers than you will in a hundred lifetimes. - In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Maybe for androids and who gives a shit about them? I didn't know the world had turned into a bunch of scientists? It is so funny, being a computer scientist myself, to hear ordinary people talk like they have lab coats on when I know damn well they haven't got a clue what they're talking about. tertonzeno wrote: --Your repeatability claim has no statistical relevance. Repeatability must cut across large numbers of samples and diverse subjects. - In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote: On Jul 3, 2008, at 2:42 PM, yifuxero wrote: --A lot depends on when and where, independent of the technique. Sure, if you're in a 3 week retreat with some Rinpoche and everybody is meditating, transcendence!. But where's the technique you can take with you, any time, any place; even on a plane? Try Vipassana on a plane. I was not in a retreat setting, just at home. It doesn't matter where I practice, if I have the intention to practice, that's all that is necessary. Repeatability is excellent. I've tried shamatha, vipassana, shamatha-vipassana, ishta- devata meditation, tantric meditation and open presence meditation on planes, cars, etc. They work fine for me. YMMV.
[FairfieldLife] Re: David Lynch in today's Guardian
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: Some forms of meditation are just contemplation or concentration; they'll keep you on the surface. You won't transcend: you won't get that fourth state of consciousness and you won't get that bliss. You'll stay on the surface. Having admitted that he only contemplated different meditations and only practiced TM this is a curious claim. I wonder where he might have gotten such information... Why is this a curious claim? You don't even understand basic English and logic. IF you are contemplating, THEN you are not experiencing what is transcendent to contemplation. Neither is the process of thinking the mantra and taking it as it comes but it leads to transcendence right? How exactly does he know that none of these practices lead to the same thing? Your point is nonsense and applies equally to the practice of TM then. Correct. But IF any of them lead to transcendental (field) phenomena, THEN they ARE Transcenddental Meditation. Maharishi made this point many times. IF it leads to transcendental consciousness, THEN it IS a meditation (process of the brain) that let's the brain to TRANSCEND (field experience, effects, brain coherence). This is not proof of anything. This is hypothesis and conclusion, so proves nothing, but sets up that necessary logic. Now, look at all of Fred Travis' studies and couple that with what Alexander wrote about in that chapter in that book on psychology, and other places, and you will conclude that 1. Something is going on, 2. it looks like field coherence 3. and it that spills into mind and life. AND, it has not been seen in this correlated fashion (several related findings and inter-disciplinary correlations) in other meditations as of yet. THEY MAY produce the same results, but there is so far no proof of that, and IF they do, THEN Maharishi says, they are the same thing. IF it produces trancendence (or whatever you want to call it), THEN it is a meditation that produces trancendence, and therefore, can be called Transcendental Meditation. Now, despite Vaj rantings, there is no body of evidence remotely close on other meditations, but that does not mean they don't work. Try to wrap your head around this without using your silly prejudices. Transcendental Meditation is meditation that causes trancendental (field/coherenct) experiences/phenomena/observations. It is the only one that shows a correlation for this - because of Travis and Alexander (Alexander has shown the psychological correlates of reported transcendence, the correlates (found in the mainstream research) that correlates the same psychological testing and reports to high functioning IQ and EQ types), and the coupling of that to EEG that Travis showed (IN RESPECTED PEER-REVIEWED SCEINTIFIC JOURNALS). Now let's bring in Lyubimov (non-meditator, highly respected Russian neurosceintist) and his observations about the EGG in TM, which back up all of it (and here's where Vaj says something like EEG in other research of Buddhists or Mindfulness (unpublished though) that shows the same. Well, IF it is TRANCENDENCE, then it is the SAME THING !...it IS meditation that produces transcendence (transcendental meditation)...but there IS NO PROOF that they are the same in any way whatsoever, and the other meditation are weak in the research and are weak in what that research means, and it correlates to nothing known in any other field of any significance as of now. With Travis, Alexander (looking at correlates from maintream psychology research) and other studies, you have nothing remotely close to the correlated evidence that TM has. Not remotely in the same league. THAT DOES NOT MEAN THEY DO NOT DO THE SAME THING, but there is no EVIDENCE of anything useful or similar, and you will have to wait AT LEAST 20 years for that body of evidence. In the meantime, WWIII is being strarted right now. Enjoy your world war. I'll be...OffWorld IF you are not transcending thought (and all activity), THEN you are in the field of activity, and are not able to transcend it. This is basic English language that has been around for centuries, even thousands of years in Western philosophical (and Eastern) traditions. Maharishi did not invent this language. You can't mix the terms. Transcending is transcending, and contempalting, mindfulness, and conentration...ARE NOT. This is basic fucking English, and you people don't get it. OffWorld
[FairfieldLife] Re: David Lynch in today's Guardian
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com , Hugo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com , off_world_beings no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com , Hugo richardhughes103@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com , curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: Some forms of meditation are just contemplation or concentration; they'll keep you on the surface. You won't transcend: you won't get that fourth state of consciousness and you won't get that bliss. You'll stay on the surface. Having admitted that he only contemplated different meditations and only practiced TM this is a curious claim. I wonder where he might have gotten such information... It's an insidious bit of brainwashing that is. I swallowed it and only learned otherwise when I started practising different types of meditation easily and effortlessly. You don't even understand basic English and logic. IF you are contemplating, THEN you are not experiencing what is transcendent to contemplation. IF you are not transcending thought (and all activity), THEN you are in the field of activity, and are not able to transcend it. This is basic English language that has been around for centuries, even thousands of years in Western philosophical (and Eastern) traditions. Maharishi did not invent this language. You can't mix the terms. Transcending is transcending, and contempalting, mindfulness, and conentration...ARE NOT. This is basic fucking English, and you people don't get it. Confession time. I remember going into a Krisha Temple and adopting the patronising and superior air of the True Believer Which shows what kind of person you really are, and why MANY people left the TM movement because of pretentious people like you who are now out and ranting pretentiously about it, leaving the decent people still in the TM movement. OffWorld What's your beef Offworld?. I've found out that Barry and Vaj are right by my own experimenting with different techniques, I've been amazed that I can transcend to an exquisite place just by shifting my attention slightly. So?.. who cares about your own personal experience? Nobody. In the meantime WW III can start while you claim hundreds of studies are NOT important. What is not important is people's personal experiences that are uncorroborated in masses of studies. THAT is NOT important. Might as well pray to the spagetthi monstor and tell people it is good. Without vast amount of published research it is irrelevane. So come on OffWorld why do you object so much? Because WW3 is starting you stupid #%$@, and the body of scientific evidence is there to prevent that, and even if it WRONG, it is the only body of evidence that can be used for this argument for meditation for world peace (and it appears to be largely valid, so it is worth a try.) Other than that, the world is going to hell in a handbasket so fast, you will not have sceintific world anymore, to prove your meditation is good for anything. Good luck with your New World Entropy. OffWorld
[FairfieldLife] Re: David Lynch in today's Guardian
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Hugo richardhughes103@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: Some forms of meditation are just contemplation or concentration; they'll keep you on the surface. You won't transcend: you won't get that fourth state of consciousness and you won't get that bliss. You'll stay on the surface. Having admitted that he only contemplated different meditations and only practiced TM this is a curious claim. I wonder where he might have gotten such information... It's an insidious bit of brainwashing that is. I swallowed it and only learned otherwise when I started practising different types of meditation easily and effortlessly. Yup. Been there, done that, remember the shock of realizing that what I had been saying in intro and advanced lectures for 14 years was simply not true. I had walked away from the TMO some time earlier, but still carried with me a lot of its dogma, so it took some effort on my part to break out of the effortlessness thang and practice a form of concentration meditation. But when I did -- what a shock! My experience of transcendence was clearer than any I had previously experienced with TM. And I could get to it any time I wanted to, at will, not just sit around and wait for it to appear. What a moment of cognitive dissonance THAT was for me. Confession time. I remember going into a Krisha Temple and and adopting the patronising and superior air of the True Believer saying to a TM friend Well, they're very nice people but they don't get the coherence do they. Sigh. I'd slap me if said that now. It's one of the toughest aspects of the TMO condi- tioning to get over. So MUCH of the dogma was about elitism -- TM was the best, and ALL other techniques were inferior, and the tendency to reinterpret all other spiritual teachings in history in terms of TM, such that that's what Christ and Buddha were really teaching -- that it's really tough to get past that and back into Beginner's Mind. We were all taught for so many years (or decades) that we were NOT beginners. We were, in fact, advanced, Governors of the Age of Enlightenment. We were the ELITE, those who trod the highest path. That's some heavy conditioning TO get past. Boy, I must have been part of a different Movement and attended different classes than Barry and Hugo. Where and when were you taught that all other techniques were inferior? I never was. Sure, there were people AROUND me that were certainly like that but me and my friends would, appropriately, just roll our eyes at them. Take a superior attitude towards other practises? Heck, 90% of everyone I ever met in TM did something else and would, more than not, speak of the other teachers or practises with pride and respect.
[FairfieldLife] Re: David Lynch in today's Guardian
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Take a superior attitude towards other practises? Heck, 90% of everyone I ever met in TM did something else and would, more than not, speak of the other teachers or practises with pride and respect. Then why are the guys who mess with other stuff, like lady saints and joytish, banned from the domes? My TB friends say other practices are fine but it will take you many lifetimes to get where TM gets you. Superhighway stuff.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: David Lynch in today's Guardian
So you are a printer by profession? :-D yifuxero wrote: --I've published more papers than you will in a hundred lifetimes.
