[FairfieldLife] Re: Mantra Meditation - for Buck
Yifu: Mahatma Faqiranand...gave me the Knowledge in 1970... So, you got the Knowledge from Mahatma Fakiranand in Los Angeles. Apparently Fakiranand got into some big trouble later. I told him to be careful, but I guess he didn't understand what I was talking about. Go figure. Let's try to figure out why Turq and Vaj make these claims, but fib about MMY, who never claimed he could levitate. curtisdeltablues: Was he the guru who claimed that for thousands of dollars he could teach anyonehow to fly, Nope, that was Zen Master Rama, who hovered in the air, the guru of Turq. or was he the guy who could make dust appear from his finger tipsafter he wiped his hands on a cloth containing dust? Nope, that was Chogyam Trungpa, who made holy ash appear on the end of his Marlboro Light, the guru of Vaj. No I've got it, he was the guy who was the child guru Maharaj-ji the God-boy-savior of the world! He was never crazy enough to claim that he could teach other people to fly for thousands of dollars, but he was out there. Yep, that was Guru Mahraj-ji, who told people he could teach them to fly for thousands of dollars, the guru of nobody here. I mean really, go figure. That's what I figure - that MMY never claimed to be able to levitate. Really.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mantra Meditation - for Buck
It almost finally feels like Summer here, a nice change this year. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Yogi raviyogi@... wrote: One of the hottest days - it's still 82 out there in San Ramon. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, whynotnow7 whynotnow7@ wrote: Hey, its summer time! It was almost 80 in SF today. Might as well leave Vaj lost in his story, and enjoy the weather instead. All this turiya, - enjoyable word - and absolute value, and pure consciousness feels different to each of us, weaving together a group definition of *something* that underlies waking/dreaming/sleep states. Naturally everyone's definition is going to be different, and yet there is a thread of consistency that runs through all of the descriptions of that which supports all. And they have lasted awhile. To argue, as Vaj does, that one eternal experience of That is somehow false, or superior, is nonsensical. Not to say we don't all have our opinions and thoughts and experiences and reflections about turiya. However, how is it possible from any perspective to rule something out unequivocally, when looking at the infinite combinations and flavors of the experience of turiya? Fundamentalist thought is always an easy way out. In any direction. I used to do it a lot, as a way to limit my options and make whatever I was facing comprehensible and manageable. It was just like a large grey wardrobe that I would lug along with me to every thought and action, consulting the volumes within ever so carefully so that I could get the story exactly right. The ego loves to micro-mange everything, which is just fine, as long as it knows its place, subservient to the vast silent cosmos from which it emerges. Once that is seen clearly, everyone gets along fine. Otherwise it is back to the scripts and stories, and who can bear to go back to them anyway? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote: On Aug 22, 2011, at 11:56 PM, sparaig wrote: Are you aware that the oldest of the Upanishads that mentions turiya explicitly says it isn't just another state, but rather that which gives rise to the other states? It's been a while since I've read Upanishadic literature, but yes that does sound like a typical translation one might hear. Says Vaj, who hasn't a clue, hoping folks will think he's suggesting the typical translation isn't accurate.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mantra Meditation - for Buck
Zen Master Rama used to levitate in front of large groups of people, according to TurquoiseB. Denise Evans: And Jesus walked on water. According to the Bible, Simon Magus flew up into the air in a demonstration of magic, but Saint Paul had him fall back doan into a ditch, and Simon hurt his self real bad. Turq made the claim that his guru, Zen Master Rama, used to rise up and hover in front of a crowd. Vaj apparently believes in the Buddhist scriptures, which claim that the Buddha once rose up and hovered over Sravasti. Lots of Tibetan yogis have claimed that their guru could perform levitation, such as Guru Padmasambhava. Let's try to figure out why Turq and Vaj make these claims, but fib about MMY, who never claimed he could levitate. Go figure. For some reason the concept of Maharishi ever being either wild or free seems less likely than him ever flying...
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mantra Meditation - for Buck
I nominate this as post of the week! Ravi Yogi: Barry, I have told you many times. Stick to your strengths, if you engage in a discussion on spiritual terms with Judy and Lawson you will always be a loser. Your strength is being a low vibe slime ball bitch (Bhakta). I do love your whorehouse raps, that is in line with being a wannabe tantrika. The trick is then to explore the dark energies, work on the guilt, shame and pain to channel it to pure creative energy. Only when you do become the master of these energies like me can you the really interact with others here. Then like me you will not feel like bullying the likes of Buck but rather other low vibe slime ballers.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mantra Meditation - for Buck
Vaj: If it turns out that a concrete layer is NOT at the bottom, that might be interesting. OTOH, if you are attempting to make sure that the house is in good repair, the most important thing to do is make sure the foundation is solid... Not all houses have concrete foundations; some might just have front steps that are solid. Many houses are built on pier and beam, or have dirt floors. Some houses are built of wood or daub and wattle. The most important thing to do is make sure the house is level. In your case, I'm almost sure your dwelling is a house of cards, with many cracks in it - and without a solid foundation. Apparently you've still got a lot of learning and practice to do! You can't even hold a vow to keep the teaching pure, like you promised your Guru Dev. Go figure.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mantra Meditation - for Buck
-- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, richardwillytexwilliams willytex@... wrote: Let's try to figure out why Turq and Vaj make these claims, but fib about MMY, who never claimed he could levitate. Go figure. What he the guru who claimed that for thousands of dollars he could teach anyone how to fly, or was he the guy who could make dust appear from his finger tips after he wiped his hands on a cloth containing dust? No I've got it, he was the guy who was the child guru Maharaj-ji the God-boy savior of the world! He was never crazy enough to claim that he could teach other people to fly for thousands of dollars but he was out there. Zen Master Rama used to levitate in front of large groups of people, according to TurquoiseB. Denise Evans: And Jesus walked on water. According to the Bible, Simon Magus flew up into the air in a demonstration of magic, but Saint Paul had him fall back doan into a ditch, and Simon hurt his self real bad. Turq made the claim that his guru, Zen Master Rama, used to rise up and hover in front of a crowd. Vaj apparently believes in the Buddhist scriptures, which claim that the Buddha once rose up and hovered over Sravasti. Lots of Tibetan yogis have claimed that their guru could perform levitation, such as Guru Padmasambhava. Let's try to figure out why Turq and Vaj make these claims, but fib about MMY, who never claimed he could levitate. Go figure. For some reason the concept of Maharishi ever being either wild or free seems less likely than him ever flying...
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mantra Meditation - for Buck
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, richardwillytexwilliams willytex@... wrote: Let's try to figure out why Turq and Vaj make these claims, but fib about MMY, who never claimed he could levitate. Go figure. Was he the guru who claimed that for thousands of dollars he could teach anyonehow to fly, or was he the guy who could make dust appear from his finger tipsafter he wiped his hands on a cloth containing dust? No I've got it, he was the guy who was the child guru Maharaj-ji the God-boy-savior of the world! He was never crazy enough to claim that he could teach other people to fly for thousands of dollars, but he was out there. I mean really, go figure. Zen Master Rama used to levitate in front of large groups of people, according to TurquoiseB. Denise Evans: And Jesus walked on water. According to the Bible, Simon Magus flew up into the air in a demonstration of magic, but Saint Paul had him fall back doan into a ditch, and Simon hurt his self real bad. Turq made the claim that his guru, Zen Master Rama, used to rise up and hover in front of a crowd. Vaj apparently believes in the Buddhist scriptures, which claim that the Buddha once rose up and hovered over Sravasti. Lots of Tibetan yogis have claimed that their guru could perform levitation, such as Guru Padmasambhava. Let's try to figure out why Turq and Vaj make these claims, but fib about MMY, who never claimed he could levitate. Go figure. For some reason the concept of Maharishi ever being either wild or free seems less likely than him ever flying...
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mantra Meditation - for Buck
Let's try to figure out why Turq and Vaj make these claims, but fib about MMY, who never claimed he could levitate. curtisdeltablues: Was he the guru who claimed that for thousands of dollars he could teach anyonehow to fly, Nope, that was Zen Master Rama, who hovered in the air, the guru of Turq. or was he the guy who could make dust appear from his finger tipsafter he wiped his hands on a cloth containing dust? Nope, that was Chogyam Trungpa, who made holy ash appear on the end of his Marlboro Light, the guru of Vaj. No I've got it, he was the guy who was the child guru Maharaj-ji the God-boy-savior of the world! He was never crazy enough to claim that he could teach other people to fly for thousands of dollars, but he was out there. Yep, that was Guru Mahraj-ji, who told people he could teach them to fly for thousands of dollars, the guru of nobody here. I mean really, go figure. That's what I figure - that MMY never claimed to be able to levitate. Really.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mantra Meditation - for Buck
Guru Mahara-ji, right..he (through his initiator Mahatma Faqiranand) gave me the Knowledge in 1970; but I didn't regard him as a Guru. In any event, that was some Powerful Shakti! http://www.feebleminds-gifs.com/big17.jpg --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, richardwillytexwilliams willytex@... wrote: Let's try to figure out why Turq and Vaj make these claims, but fib about MMY, who never claimed he could levitate. curtisdeltablues: Was he the guru who claimed that for thousands of dollars he could teach anyonehow to fly, Nope, that was Zen Master Rama, who hovered in the air, the guru of Turq. or was he the guy who could make dust appear from his finger tipsafter he wiped his hands on a cloth containing dust? Nope, that was Chogyam Trungpa, who made holy ash appear on the end of his Marlboro Light, the guru of Vaj. No I've got it, he was the guy who was the child guru Maharaj-ji the God-boy-savior of the world! He was never crazy enough to claim that he could teach other people to fly for thousands of dollars, but he was out there. Yep, that was Guru Mahraj-ji, who told people he could teach them to fly for thousands of dollars, the guru of nobody here. I mean really, go figure. That's what I figure - that MMY never claimed to be able to levitate. Really.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mantra Meditation - for Buck
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOvZrA_sMuA Maharishi Mahesh Yogi answers: What do you meditate about? Harvard Law School Forum (1970). --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robert babajii_99@... wrote: There is an awareness that becomes established, and then, contemplation of awareness itself, and it's infinite value, becomes the meditation...mantra and sutra become more or less redundant... --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: Dear Empty, that's a substantial difference. I wish now I would have known the difference years ago. One of the lady saints coming through some years ago pointed that out too. The difference was like the light came on. Thanks for the clarification between TM process and also may be sitting with the silence. -Buck --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill emptybill@ wrote: Besides the difference in mantra-s, there is a difference in how the two meditations are done. In Sahaj practice, the understanding is that the mantra doesn't go anywhere so we don't actually lose the mantra. Because we were introduced to the mantra at initiation, it is naturally recognized and recollected when we sit down to meditate. However, if during meditation our attention has been absorbed in thoughts for a while without realizing it, then we just return to the mantra by recognizing it again. If we find our attention aware of thoughts occurring within the mind, that in itself, does not constitute a reason or a need to reintroduce the mantra. Just to rest in silent awareness, although there is no activity or object reference, is in itself meditation because awareness is fundamental while the mind is not. Or as SSRS has said, although you cannot know awareness, because it is not an object, you don't need to do so because you are that very awareness itself prior to mind and to the mind's experiences, whether objective or subjective. .. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: The Power of Mantra Contrary to public misinformation, techniques like Transcendental Meditation or Sahaj Samadhi are not based on repetition. They utilize a much subtler science. Om, so are Transcendental Meditation and Sahaj Samadhi effectively the same? The similar practice? Just wondering. Anyone learned both? Anyone here taught both? -B vibrations of consciousness. Mantra carries the mind to the silence that was there before God said, Let there be light. In Sanskrit, mantra means vehicle for the mind: manas - mind, tra - vehicle. Tra is the root of our English suffix, tron. Electrons carry electricity. Positrons carry positivity. Mantras carry mind to its source.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mantra Meditation - for Buck
TurIya is not a fourth state but rather the unconditioned consciousness the Witness State which is a kind substratum for all three states? Is it not the one without a second, with no thing to know it and no other for it to know?It is not in fact not apart from anything, for it forms the substratum of all happenings;fleeting phenomena on it and then sink into it alone, it is your very Being? As far as is it known, turyatita-occurs when the Witness itself dissolves into everything that is witnessed -is not referred to in the major Upanishads. However, some of the minor Upanishads ssems to refer to five states.so? Hyakujo's Koan Ma-tsu asked, What is that? ai-chang said, Wild ducks. Ma-tsu said, Where have they gone? Pai-chang replied, They have flown away. Ma-tsu then twisted Pai-chang's nose, of from which Pai-chang cried out in pain. Ma-tsu said, When have they ever flown away, they have been here since the beginning. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote: On Aug 22, 2011, at 2:43 PM, sparaig wrote: Ouch, though I note that you didn't address my point. Lawson (the great and powerful) Lawson, only TB TMers really believe that researchers have actually identified Pure Consciousness - because they've found no fourth, just the same ole, same old. So it's probably not worth responding to, as it's obviously a belief you're rather attached to! Certainly it is a belief I am attached to. As to whether or not it is a validatable belief, few people who are not True Believers of one stripe or another have ever examined the evidence, so it is not exactly unexpected that TMing TBs believe it while the TBs in other traditions reject it. L.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mantra Meditation - for Buck
How about, All these 'definitions' are just pathetic attempts at describing a continuum of consciousness that can never be described, and The only people who believe that the descriptions given to them are 'true' are spiritual kindergarteners who have never really experienced the states being described. That said, this pathetic attempt is less pathetic than some of Maharishi's pathetic attempts. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, merudanda no_reply@... wrote: TurIya is not a fourth state but rather the unconditioned consciousness the Witness State which is a kind substratum for all three states? Is it not the one without a second, with no thing to know it and no other for it to know? It is not in fact not apart from anything, for it forms the substratum of all happenings; fleeting phenomena on it and then sink into it alone, it is your very Being? As far as is it known, turyatita-occurs when the Witness itself dissolves into everything that is witnessed -is not referred to in the major Upanishads. However, some of the minor Upanishads ssems to refer to five states.so? Hyakujo's Koan
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mantra Meditation - for Buck
Hi Anointed one ! pathetic? have no problem with that as well as aesthetic, ascetic, athletic, balletic, bathetic, cometic, cosmetic, eidetic, emetic, frenetic, gametic, genetic, hermetic, limnetic, magnetic, mimetic, noetic, Ossetic, paretic, phenetic, phonetic, phyletic, poetic, prophetic, prosthetic, pyretic, splenetic, syncretic, syndetic, synthetic, tonetic, Venetic.. just an idea How about changing the Koan question to Ma-tsuasked, What is that? Pai-chang said, A wild and free flying M/Mahesh /Y. BTW if you check up the word pathetic at WiKipedia you'll get Sacrament (album) and Lamb of God. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pathetic lol --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: How about, All these 'definitions' are just pathetic attempts at describing a continuum of consciousness that can never be described, and The only people who believe that the descriptions given to them are 'true' are spiritual kindergarteners who have never really experienced the states being described. That said, this pathetic attempt is less pathetic than some of Maharishi's pathetic attempts. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, merudanda no_reply@ wrote: TurIya is not a fourth state but rather the unconditioned consciousness the Witness State which is a kind substratum for all three states? Is it not the one without a second, with no thing to know it and no other for it to know? It is not in fact not apart from anything, for it forms the substratum of all happenings; fleeting phenomena on it and then sink into it alone, it is your very Being? As far as is it known, turyatita-occurs when the Witness itself dissolves into everything that is witnessed -is not referred to in the major Upanishads. However, some of the minor Upanishads ssems to refer to five states.so? Hyakujo's Koan
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mantra Meditation - for Buck
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, merudanda no_reply@... wrote: Hi Anointed one ! Thou annointest my ego with oil. My cup runneth over. :-) pathetic? have no problem with that as well as aesthetic, ascetic, athletic, balletic, bathetic, cometic, cosmetic, eidetic, emetic, frenetic, gametic, genetic, hermetic, limnetic, magnetic, mimetic, noetic, Ossetic, paretic, phenetic, phonetic, phyletic, poetic, prophetic, prosthetic, pyretic, splenetic, syncretic, syndetic, synthetic, tonetic, Venetic.. E) All of the above. I was just riffing on the way that Lawson and Judy spat out definitions as if they really were. It seems to make them feel that they know things, but in me it reveals something very different, the same dependency on pat answers that a kindergartener displays. It just never occurs to the kindergartener that the answer they have been given is less than true, or less than complete. just an idea How about changing the Koan question to Ma-tsuasked, What is that? Pai-chang said, A wild and free flying M/Mahesh /Y. For some reason the concept of Maharishi ever being either wild or free seems less likely than him ever flying. :-) He, after all, was the one who cooked up all these overly simplistic definitions that people are parroting as if they were Truth Incarnate. BTW if you check up the word pathetic at WiKipedia you'll get Sacrament (album) and Lamb of God. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pathetic :-) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: How about, All these 'definitions' are just pathetic attempts at describing a continuum of consciousness that can never be described, and The only people who believe that the descriptions given to them are 'true' are spiritual kindergarteners who have never really experienced the states being described. That said, this pathetic attempt is less pathetic than some of Maharishi's pathetic attempts. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, merudanda no_reply@ wrote: TurIya is not a fourth state but rather the unconditioned consciousness the Witness State which is a kind substratum for all three states? Is it not the one without a second, with no thing to know it and no other for it to know? It is not in fact not apart from anything, for it forms the substratum of all happenings; fleeting phenomena on it and then sink into it alone, it is your very Being? As far as is it known, turyatita-occurs when the Witness itself dissolves into everything that is witnessed -is not referred to in the major Upanishads. However, some of the minor Upanishads ssems to refer to five states.so? Hyakujo's Koan
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mantra Meditation - for Buck
thanks you for concept but (lol)sucks??that's a no-no word-is forbidden by my gorgeous kindergarten teacher- to take in my mouth(!) blame on you --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, merudanda no_reply@ wrote: Hi Anointed one ! Thou annointest my ego with oil. My cup runneth over. :-) snip For some reason the concept of Maharishi ever being either wild or free seems less likely than him ever flying. :-) your description of your tsakli card shuffle experience or absentia of? mmmh let's fill in the .of the Koan Ma-tsu said, Where have they, M+M+Y,gone? Pai-chang replied, They have flown away. Ma-tsu then twisted Pai-chang's nose, of from which Pai-chang cried out in pain. Ma-tsu said, When have M+M+Y ever flown away, they have been here since the beginning. [:D]
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mantra Meditation - for Buck
thanks you for riffing concept but (lol)sucks??that's a no-no word-is forbidden by my gorgeous kindergarten teacher- to take in my mouth(!) blame on you spiritualsolitaire --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, merudanda no_reply@ wrote: Hi Anointed one ! Thou annointest my ego with oil. My cup runneth over. :-) snip For some reason the concept of Maharishi ever being either wild or free seems less likely than him ever flying. :-) your description of your tsakli card shuffle experience or absentia of? mmmh let's fill in the .of the Koan Ma-tsu said, Where have they, Maharishi+Maheshwara+Yogi,gone? Pai-chang replied, They have flown away. Ma-tsu then twisted Pai-chang's nose, of from which Pai-chang cried out in pain. Ma-tsu said, When have M+M+Y ever flown away, they have been here since the beginning. [:D]
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Mantra Meditation - for Buck
On Aug 22, 2011, at 11:56 PM, sparaig wrote: Are you aware that the oldest of the Upanishads that mentions turiya explicitly says it isn't just another state, but rather that which gives rise to the other states? It's been a while since I've read Upanishadic literature, but yes that does sound like a typical translation one might hear.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Mantra Meditation - for Buck
On Aug 23, 2011, at 4:59 AM, turquoiseb wrote: For some reason the concept of Maharishi ever being either wild or free seems less likely than him ever flying. :-) He, after all, was the one who cooked up all these overly simplistic definitions that people are parroting as if they were Truth Incarnate. Musician Paul McCartney was with The Beatles in Rishikesh in 1968 for TM training and he asked the Maharishi at the time about levitation. According to McCartney, the Maharishi said he had never done it, did not know anyone who had, and was unable to find anyone to demonstrate it.[53]
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mantra Meditation - for Buck
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@... wrote: On Aug 22, 2011, at 5:38 PM, sparaig wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote: On Aug 22, 2011, at 5:04 PM, sparaig wrote: I still haven't seen any research, whether, from Shambhala Mountain Center Study, or other studies, that describes the physiological correlates of pure consciousness measured during the practice of Buddhist techniques. Pure consciousness is a TM creation, so I don't expect you'll find such silliness anywhere else. The primary examples of higher states of consciousness are for samadhi in both the Hindu Patanjali traditions and the Buddhist traditions. Both share the same EEG hallmarks BTW. Both represent fourth states, that is states of awareness not normally seen in waking, dreaming or sleeping. LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL What does you think turiya means? Duh, why do you think I keep using the word fourth? BZZT. If you knew what turiya/fourth meant, you wouldn't define it as states of awareness not normally seen in waking, dreaming or sleeping. You'd say, Both represent the 'fourth,' which underlies the states of waking, dreaming and sleeping. And that's not just TM lingo; that's from the Upanishads.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mantra Meditation - for Buck
Pure consciousness is a TM creation... sparaig: What does you think turiya means? Shiva, or Mahadeva represents Brahman, the Absolute pure consciousness which is beyond all names, forms and activities... Source: 'Tantra' The Path of Ecstasy by Georg Feuerstein Shambhala, 1998 Pages 7084
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mantra Meditation - for Buck
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: How about, All these 'definitions' are just pathetic attempts at describing a continuum of consciousness that can never be described, and The only people who believe that the descriptions given to them are 'true' are spiritual kindergarteners who have never really experienced the states being described. And yet, the people who *have* experienced the states being described recognize the descriptions as being attempts to describe what they have experienced. They also recognize that no verbal description can be any more than suggestive, because language is dualistic and the experience is of wholeness, oneness.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mantra Meditation - for Buck
For some reason the concept of Maharishi ever being either wild or free seems less likely than him ever flying... Vaj: According to McCartney, the Maharishi said he had never done it, did not know anyone who had, and was unable to find anyone to demonstrate it... Zen Master Rama used to levitate in front of large groups of people, according to TurquoiseB. Also, in the Buddhist scriptures, it is said that the Buddha levitiated over Sravasti on at least one occasion. Go figure.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mantra Meditation - for Buck
Even worse: Both represent 'fourth' states, plural, as if there was more than one turiya, one for Patanjali and one for Buddhism. Just gibberish... sparaig: I remain unconvinced that what most Buddhists call calm abiding is really pure consciousness that we talk about... Most of the TMers on FFL know that researchers have actually identified Pure Consciousness, because Vaj cited a study by Alan Wallace that proves that there is such a state, citing the Shambhala Mountain Center study. And, all the FFL TMers here now know that calm abiding is just like TM practice, because I've practiced both, and I posted this on FFL. There's no reason a TMer can't calmly abide and reach Pure Consciousness, just like the Trungpa practitioners do. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/287357
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mantra Meditation - for Buck
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: snip I was just riffing on the way that Lawson and Judy spat out definitions as if they really were. It seems to make them feel that they know things, but in me it reveals something very different, the same dependency on pat answers that a kindergartener displays. It just never occurs to the kindergartener that the answer they have been given is less than true, or less than complete. Au contraire, Pierre. See my previous post. As usual, your attempts at mind-reading stink up the place. For those who have had the experience, it's obvious that the descriptions are less than true. As you say, there's no way to give a complete verbal description of pure consciousness. But that doesn't mean nothing valid can be said about it to distinguish it from other experiences, that it can't be pointed to verbally. Such pointings go back at least as far as the Mandukya Upanishad.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Mantra Meditation - for Buck
And Jesus walked on water. --- On Tue, 8/23/11, richardwillytexwilliams willy...@yahoo.com wrote: From: richardwillytexwilliams willy...@yahoo.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Mantra Meditation - for Buck To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, August 23, 2011, 6:38 AM For some reason the concept of Maharishi ever being either wild or free seems less likely than him ever flying... Vaj: According to McCartney, the Maharishi said he had never done it, did not know anyone who had, and was unable to find anyone to demonstrate it... Zen Master Rama used to levitate in front of large groups of people, according to TurquoiseB. Also, in the Buddhist scriptures, it is said that the Buddha levitiated over Sravasti on at least one occasion. Go figure.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mantra Meditation - for Buck
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: How about, All these 'definitions' are just pathetic attempts at describing a continuum of consciousness that can never be described, and The only people who believe that the descriptions given to them are 'true' are spiritual kindergarteners who have never really experienced the states being described. And yet, the people who *have* experienced the states being described recognize the descriptions as being attempts to describe what they have experienced. They also recognize that no verbal description can be any more than suggestive, because language is dualistic and the experience is of wholeness, oneness. Well during meditation, no description is possible for many reasons. The least philosophical is simply that the episodes of PC are associated with marked changes in EEG and breathing that revert towards normal before the subject is able to press a button signifying that they have noticed the state, so any attempt to describe the pure state is certainly based only a memory of the state and a relatively remote memory, at that. The fact that descriptions require language, and PC is defined as being without language, kinda makes it impossible to describe, also. L
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Mantra Meditation - for Buck
On Aug 23, 2011, at 2:39 PM, sparaig wrote: Well during meditation, no description is possible for many reasons. The least philosophical is simply that the episodes of PC are associated with marked changes in EEG and breathing that revert towards normal before the subject is able to press a button signifying that they have noticed the state, so any attempt to describe the pure state is certainly based only a memory of the state and a relatively remote memory, at that. The fact that descriptions require language, and PC is defined as being without language, kinda makes it impossible to describe, also. The fact that a unbiased observer would see nothing remarkable EEG- wise beyond what's normally seen in waking, sleeping or dreaming would be the first indicator that there's nothing extraordinary going on - just the relaxation effects we're familiar with. However if an unbiased observer was to see a meditator in which some unknown state which was quite remarkable EEG-wise, then some extraordinary state not normally seen in waking, dreaming or sleeping might be going on. The former would be like TMers: nothing extraordinary whatsoever is going on, except to a handful of TM-biased researchers; the latter would be actual yogis of the Patanjali tradition and Buddhist yogis. Both show remarkable features unseen in normal humans. Outside of meditation it is as if this signature is dyed into brains, the same fourth state EEG signature pervades waking, sleeping and dreaming. It can be described as it never really leaves.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mantra Meditation - for Buck
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@... wrote: snip The fact that a unbiased observer would see nothing remarkable EEG-wise How would you, of all people, know what an unbiased observer would see? beyond what's normally seen in waking, sleeping or dreaming would be the first indicator that there's nothing extraordinary going on - just the relaxation effects we're familiar with. However if an unbiased observer was to see a meditator in which some unknown state which was quite remarkable EEG-wise, then some extraordinary state not normally seen in waking, dreaming or sleeping might be going on. The former would be like TMers: nothing extraordinary whatsoever is going on, except to a handful of TM- biased researchers; And the meditators themselves, of course. the latter would be actual yogis of the Patanjali tradition and Buddhist yogis. Both show remarkable features unseen in normal humans. Outside of meditation it is as if this signature is dyed into brains, the same fourth state EEG signature pervades waking, sleeping and dreaming. Since the fourth (not a state, BTW) pervades waking, sleeping, and dreaming in all human beings all the time, what you describe sounds very much like nothing extraordinary is going on. It can be described as it never really leaves.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mantra Meditation - for Buck
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@... wrote: On Aug 22, 2011, at 11:56 PM, sparaig wrote: Are you aware that the oldest of the Upanishads that mentions turiya explicitly says it isn't just another state, but rather that which gives rise to the other states? It's been a while since I've read Upanishadic literature, but yes that does sound like a typical translation one might hear. Says Vaj, who hasn't a clue, hoping folks will think he's suggesting the typical translation isn't accurate.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mantra Meditation - for Buck
Barry, I have told you many times. Stick to your strengths, if you engage in a discussion on spiritual terms with Judy and Lawson you will always be a loser. Your strength is being a low vibe slime ball bitch (Bhakta). I do love your whorehouse raps, that is in line with being a wannabe tantrika. The trick is then to explore the dark energies, work on the guilt, shame and pain to channel it to pure creative energy. Only when you do become the master of these energies like me can you the really interact with others here. Then like me you will not feel like bullying the likes of Buck but rather other low vibe slime ballers. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: How about, All these 'definitions' are just pathetic attempts at describing a continuum of consciousness that can never be described, and The only people who believe that the descriptions given to them are 'true' are spiritual kindergarteners who have never really experienced the states being described. That said, this pathetic attempt is less pathetic than some of Maharishi's pathetic attempts. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, merudanda no_reply@ wrote: TurIya is not a fourth state but rather the unconditioned consciousness the Witness State which is a kind substratum for all three states? Is it not the one without a second, with no thing to know it and no other for it to know? It is not in fact not apart from anything, for it forms the substratum of all happenings; fleeting phenomena on it and then sink into it alone, it is your very Being? As far as is it known, turyatita-occurs when the Witness itself dissolves into everything that is witnessed -is not referred to in the major Upanishads. However, some of the minor Upanishads ssems to refer to five states.so? Hyakujo's Koan
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mantra Meditation - for Buck
Well... --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@... wrote: [...] The fact that a unbiased observer would see nothing remarkable EEG- wise beyond what's normally seen in waking, sleeping or dreaming would be the first indicator that there's nothing extraordinary going on - just the relaxation effects we're familiar with. However if an unbiased observer was to see a meditator in which some unknown state which was quite remarkable EEG-wise, then some extraordinary state not normally seen in waking, dreaming or sleeping might be going on. Except that it isn't extraordinary. It is merely the refinement of the basis of the three relative states to the core essential. The degree of coherence in specific areas might be unusual, but relaxed alertness-without-content is hardly an extra-ordinary thing. It is the sine qua non of everything that involves alertness. Now, being able to measure alertness in its pure state might be unusual, but it shouldn't be surprising that the pure form of what is the basis of all relative forms of consciousness turns out to have something mundane and in *common* with all of them. That's kinda a given, if it really is the basis for everything else. I mean, are you really going to take someone seriously who says: OMG! No matter where in the house I dig, its got this concrete layer at the bottom... How amazing! If it turns out that a concrete layer is NOT at the bottom, that might be interesting. OTOH, if you are attempting to make sure that the house is in good repair, the most important thing to do is make sure the foundation is solid. The former would be like TMers: nothing extraordinary whatsoever is going on, except to a handful of TM-biased researchers; the latter would be actual yogis of the Patanjali tradition and Buddhist yogis. Both show remarkable features unseen in normal humans. Outside of meditation it is as if this signature is dyed into brains, the same fourth state EEG signature pervades waking, sleeping and dreaming. It can be described as it never really leaves. The signature is already there. It is merely not obvious because the nervous system is generally damaged and the idle is set too high. Repair the damage/reset the idle and it becomes totally obvious. L.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mantra Meditation - for Buck
Hey, its summer time! It was almost 80 in SF today. Might as well leave Vaj lost in his story, and enjoy the weather instead. All this turiya, - enjoyable word - and absolute value, and pure consciousness feels different to each of us, weaving together a group definition of *something* that underlies waking/dreaming/sleep states. Naturally everyone's definition is going to be different, and yet there is a thread of consistency that runs through all of the descriptions of that which supports all. And they have lasted awhile. To argue, as Vaj does, that one eternal experience of That is somehow false, or superior, is nonsensical. Not to say we don't all have our opinions and thoughts and experiences and reflections about turiya. However, how is it possible from any perspective to rule something out unequivocally, when looking at the infinite combinations and flavors of the experience of turiya? Fundamentalist thought is always an easy way out. In any direction. I used to do it a lot, as a way to limit my options and make whatever I was facing comprehensible and manageable. It was just like a large grey wardrobe that I would lug along with me to every thought and action, consulting the volumes within ever so carefully so that I could get the story exactly right. The ego loves to micro-mange everything, which is just fine, as long as it knows its place, subservient to the vast silent cosmos from which it emerges. Once that is seen clearly, everyone gets along fine. Otherwise it is back to the scripts and stories, and who can bear to go back to them anyway? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote: On Aug 22, 2011, at 11:56 PM, sparaig wrote: Are you aware that the oldest of the Upanishads that mentions turiya explicitly says it isn't just another state, but rather that which gives rise to the other states? It's been a while since I've read Upanishadic literature, but yes that does sound like a typical translation one might hear. Says Vaj, who hasn't a clue, hoping folks will think he's suggesting the typical translation isn't accurate.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Mantra Meditation - for Buck
On Aug 23, 2011, at 5:59 PM, sparaig wrote: Well... --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@... wrote: [...] The fact that a unbiased observer would see nothing remarkable EEG- wise beyond what's normally seen in waking, sleeping or dreaming would be the first indicator that there's nothing extraordinary going on - just the relaxation effects we're familiar with. However if an unbiased observer was to see a meditator in which some unknown state which was quite remarkable EEG-wise, then some extraordinary state not normally seen in waking, dreaming or sleeping might be going on. Except that it isn't extraordinary. It is merely the refinement of the basis of the three relative states to the core essential. The degree of coherence in specific areas might be unusual, but relaxed alertness-without-content is hardly an extra-ordinary thing. It is the sine qua non of everything that involves alertness. Now, being able to measure alertness in its pure state might be unusual, but it shouldn't be surprising that the pure form of what is the basis of all relative forms of consciousness turns out to have something mundane and in *common* with all of them. That's kinda a given, if it really is the basis for everything else. I mean, are you really going to take someone seriously who says: OMG! No matter where in the house I dig, its got this concrete layer at the bottom... How amazing! If it turns out that a concrete layer is NOT at the bottom, that might be interesting. OTOH, if you are attempting to make sure that the house is in good repair, the most important thing to do is make sure the foundation is solid. The former would be like TMers: nothing extraordinary whatsoever is going on, except to a handful of TM-biased researchers; the latter would be actual yogis of the Patanjali tradition and Buddhist yogis. Both show remarkable features unseen in normal humans. Outside of meditation it is as if this signature is dyed into brains, the same fourth state EEG signature pervades waking, sleeping and dreaming. It can be described as it never really leaves. The signature is already there. It is merely not obvious because the nervous system is generally damaged and the idle is set too high. Repair the damage/reset the idle and it becomes totally obvious. This is just desperate, specious theorizing Lawson - esp. since in this case, the first time it was seen was in lineal Patanjali yogis...
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mantra Meditation - for Buck
One of the hottest days - it's still 82 out there in San Ramon. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, whynotnow7 whynotnow7@... wrote: Hey, its summer time! It was almost 80 in SF today. Might as well leave Vaj lost in his story, and enjoy the weather instead. All this turiya, - enjoyable word - and absolute value, and pure consciousness feels different to each of us, weaving together a group definition of *something* that underlies waking/dreaming/sleep states. Naturally everyone's definition is going to be different, and yet there is a thread of consistency that runs through all of the descriptions of that which supports all. And they have lasted awhile. To argue, as Vaj does, that one eternal experience of That is somehow false, or superior, is nonsensical. Not to say we don't all have our opinions and thoughts and experiences and reflections about turiya. However, how is it possible from any perspective to rule something out unequivocally, when looking at the infinite combinations and flavors of the experience of turiya? Fundamentalist thought is always an easy way out. In any direction. I used to do it a lot, as a way to limit my options and make whatever I was facing comprehensible and manageable. It was just like a large grey wardrobe that I would lug along with me to every thought and action, consulting the volumes within ever so carefully so that I could get the story exactly right. The ego loves to micro-mange everything, which is just fine, as long as it knows its place, subservient to the vast silent cosmos from which it emerges. Once that is seen clearly, everyone gets along fine. Otherwise it is back to the scripts and stories, and who can bear to go back to them anyway? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote: On Aug 22, 2011, at 11:56 PM, sparaig wrote: Are you aware that the oldest of the Upanishads that mentions turiya explicitly says it isn't just another state, but rather that which gives rise to the other states? It's been a while since I've read Upanishadic literature, but yes that does sound like a typical translation one might hear. Says Vaj, who hasn't a clue, hoping folks will think he's suggesting the typical translation isn't accurate.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mantra Meditation - for Buck
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill emptybill@... wrote: This explanation conflates the difference between mind/consciousness (citta) and awareness (cit) or, if you prefer, between drishti-matra and buddhi. Do you, perchance, mean 'dRshi-maatra'? draSTaa dRshi-maatraH shuddho 'pi pratyayaanupashyaH. Taimni: The Seer is pure consciousness but though pure, appears to see through the mind. (II 20)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mantra Meditation - for Buck
L This topic is about the distinction between the two techniques and how to highlight any differences between them. It is factually based. It is not a football contest of my technique is better than your technique and most certainly is not a thread for you to celebrate your visibly manifest and aggrandized self-image. You're just playing Sanskrit semantic games to avoid admitting that I am correct. Believe it or not, this thread is not about you. It started as a factual examination of the differences between these two similar but slightly variant techniques. Obviously your conclusions preceded your attempt to discuss this topic. Therefore those conclusions cannot validate any sequence of reasoning you introduce. But, by the way, I must agree with you. Empirical research using instrumentation to attempt to measure meditation has only been done over the past few years. Since no previous empirical research existed for those many centuries, all that pseudo-knowledge was really just mumbo-jumbo. But, because of you, it can now be told it was all just a bunch of belief systems targeting uneducated Indians and naive Westerners. Although propagated by gurus and jokies needing to get hold of bags of rupees, you have finally struck a blow for truth, goodness and ultimate certitude. Congratulations on your fine work. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@... wrote: You said: If we *find our attention aware of thoughts* occurring within the mind, that in itself, does not constitute a reason or a need to reintroduce the mantra. You're just playing Sanskrit semantic games to avoid admitting that I am correct. REgardless, the proof is in the pudding. After 25 years of people practice the techniques that Sri Sri Ravi Shankar teaches, where is the research on people showing pure consciousness? L
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mantra Meditation - for Buck
Yep, Patanjali sez dRshi-maatra . My mistake. Thanks for the correction. The seer (is) sheer seeing (and) although pure (shuddha) beholds (anupashya) ideas (pratyaya). --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill emptybill@ wrote: This explanation conflates the difference between mind/consciousness (citta) and awareness (cit) or, if you prefer, between drishti-matra and buddhi. Do you, perchance, mean 'dRshi-maatra'? draSTaa dRshi-maatraH shuddho 'pi pratyayaanupashyaH. Taimni: The Seer is pure consciousness but though pure, appears to see through the mind. (II 20)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mantra Meditation - for Buck
Ouch, though I note that you didn't address my point. Lawson (the great and powerful) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill emptybill@... wrote: L This topic is about the distinction between the two techniques and how to highlight any differences between them. It is factually based. It is not a football contest of my technique is better than your technique and most certainly is not a thread for you to celebrate your visibly manifest and aggrandized self-image. You're just playing Sanskrit semantic games to avoid admitting that I am correct. Believe it or not, this thread is not about you. It started as a factual examination of the differences between these two similar but slightly variant techniques. Obviously your conclusions preceded your attempt to discuss this topic. Therefore those conclusions cannot validate any sequence of reasoning you introduce. But, by the way, I must agree with you. Empirical research using instrumentation to attempt to measure meditation has only been done over the past few years. Since no previous empirical research existed for those many centuries, all that pseudo-knowledge was really just mumbo-jumbo. But, because of you, it can now be told � it was all just a bunch of belief systems targeting uneducated Indians and naive Westerners. Although propagated by gurus and jokies needing to get hold of bags of rupees, you have finally struck a blow for truth, goodness and ultimate certitude. Congratulations on your fine work. ������������������������������� --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@ wrote: You said: If we *find our attention aware of thoughts* occurring within the mind, that in itself, does not constitute a reason or a need to reintroduce the mantra. You're just playing Sanskrit semantic games to avoid admitting that I am correct. REgardless, the proof is in the pudding. After 25 years of people practice the techniques that Sri Sri Ravi Shankar teaches, where is the research on people showing pure consciousness? L
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Mantra Meditation - for Buck
On Aug 22, 2011, at 2:43 PM, sparaig wrote: Ouch, though I note that you didn't address my point. Lawson (the great and powerful) Lawson, only TB TMers really believe that researchers have actually identified Pure Consciousness - because they've found no fourth, just the same ole, same old. So it's probably not worth responding to, as it's obviously a belief you're rather attached to!
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mantra Meditation - for Buck
Vaj: ...only TB TMers really believe that researchers have actually identified Pure Consciousness... Most of the TMers on FFL know that researchers have actually identified Pure Consciousness, because you cited a study by Alan Wallace that proves that there is such a state, citing the Shambhala Mountain Center study. And, all the FFL TMers here now know that calm abiding is just like TM practice, because I've practiced both, and said posted this on FFL. There's no reason a TMer can't calmly abide and reach Pure Consciousness, just like the Trungpa practitioners do. That is, unless the Wallace study was bunk, right?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mantra Meditation - for Buck
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@... wrote: On Aug 22, 2011, at 2:43 PM, sparaig wrote: Ouch, though I note that you didn't address my point. Lawson (the great and powerful) Lawson, only TB TMers really believe that researchers have actually identified Pure Consciousness - because they've found no fourth, just the same ole, same old. So it's probably not worth responding to, as it's obviously a belief you're rather attached to! Certainly it is a belief I am attached to. As to whether or not it is a validatable belief, few people who are not True Believers of one stripe or another have ever examined the evidence, so it is not exactly unexpected that TMing TBs believe it while the TBs in other traditions reject it. L.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mantra Meditation - for Buck
I still haven't seen any research, whether, from Shambhala Mountain Center Study, or other studies, that describes the physiological correlates of pure consciousness measured during the practice of Buddhist techniques. L. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, richardwillytexwilliams willytex@... wrote: Vaj: ...only TB TMers really believe that researchers have actually identified Pure Consciousness... Most of the TMers on FFL know that researchers have actually identified Pure Consciousness, because you cited a study by Alan Wallace that proves that there is such a state, citing the Shambhala Mountain Center study. And, all the FFL TMers here now know that calm abiding is just like TM practice, because I've practiced both, and said posted this on FFL. There's no reason a TMer can't calmly abide and reach Pure Consciousness, just like the Trungpa practitioners do. That is, unless the Wallace study was bunk, right?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mantra Meditation - for Buck
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@... wrote: On Aug 22, 2011, at 5:04 PM, sparaig wrote: I still haven't seen any research, whether, from Shambhala Mountain Center Study, or other studies, that describes the physiological correlates of pure consciousness measured during the practice of Buddhist techniques. Pure consciousness is a TM creation, so I don't expect you'll find such silliness anywhere else. The primary examples of higher states of consciousness are for samadhi in both the Hindu Patanjali traditions and the Buddhist traditions. Both share the same EEG hallmarks BTW. Both represent fourth states, that is states of awareness not normally seen in waking, dreaming or sleeping. LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL What does you think turiya means? Jeeze. What a maroon. L.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mantra Meditation - for Buck
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@... wrote: On Aug 22, 2011, at 5:04 PM, sparaig wrote: I still haven't seen any research, whether, from Shambhala Mountain Center Study, or other studies, that describes the physiological correlates of pure consciousness measured during the practice of Buddhist techniques. Pure consciousness is a TM creation Uh, no, it most certainly is not. What a nitwit assertion. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turiya http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2009-02-06/vintage-wisdom/28005396_1_consciousness-mindfulness-universal-flux http://tinyurl.com/3d8jrj4 http://upanishads.pureconsciousness.org/ , so I don't expect you'll find such silliness anywhere else. Only about 620,000 Google hits on pure consciousness that don't refer either to Maharishi or to Transcendental Meditation. The primary examples of higher states of consciousness are for samadhi in both the Hindu Patanjali traditions and the Buddhist traditions. Both share the same EEG hallmarks BTW. Both represent fourth states, that is states of awareness not normally seen in waking, dreaming or sleeping.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mantra Meditation - for Buck
The most striking silliness is his assertion that real turiya is about states of awareness not normally seen in waking, dreaming or sleeping... I guess, insomuch as you normally don't notice the movie screen while watching the movie, that you could say this, but the way he words it implies something entirely different than: that which is what waking, dreaming or sleeping are projected upon. L. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote: On Aug 22, 2011, at 5:04 PM, sparaig wrote: I still haven't seen any research, whether, from Shambhala Mountain Center Study, or other studies, that describes the physiological correlates of pure consciousness measured during the practice of Buddhist techniques. Pure consciousness is a TM creation Uh, no, it most certainly is not. What a nitwit assertion. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turiya http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2009-02-06/vintage-wisdom/28005396_1_consciousness-mindfulness-universal-flux http://tinyurl.com/3d8jrj4 http://upanishads.pureconsciousness.org/ , so I don't expect you'll find such silliness anywhere else. Only about 620,000 Google hits on pure consciousness that don't refer either to Maharishi or to Transcendental Meditation. The primary examples of higher states of consciousness are for samadhi in both the Hindu Patanjali traditions and the Buddhist traditions. Both share the same EEG hallmarks BTW. Both represent fourth states, that is states of awareness not normally seen in waking, dreaming or sleeping.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mantra Meditation - for Buck
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@... wrote: The most striking silliness is his assertion that real turiya is about states of awareness not normally seen in waking, dreaming or sleeping... I guess, insomuch as you normally don't notice the movie screen while watching the movie, that you could say this, but the way he words it implies something entirely different than: that which is what waking, dreaming or sleeping are projected upon. Even worse: Both represent 'fourth' states, plural, as if there was more than one turiya, one for Patanjali and one for Buddhism. Just gibberish. And turiya isn't a state in any case; as you note, it's what underlies all states. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote: On Aug 22, 2011, at 5:04 PM, sparaig wrote: I still haven't seen any research, whether, from Shambhala Mountain Center Study, or other studies, that describes the physiological correlates of pure consciousness measured during the practice of Buddhist techniques. Pure consciousness is a TM creation Uh, no, it most certainly is not. What a nitwit assertion. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turiya http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2009-02-06/vintage-wisdom/28005396_1_consciousness-mindfulness-universal-flux http://tinyurl.com/3d8jrj4 http://upanishads.pureconsciousness.org/ , so I don't expect you'll find such silliness anywhere else. Only about 620,000 Google hits on pure consciousness that don't refer either to Maharishi or to Transcendental Meditation. The primary examples of higher states of consciousness are for samadhi in both the Hindu Patanjali traditions and the Buddhist traditions. Both share the same EEG hallmarks BTW. Both represent fourth states, that is states of awareness not normally seen in waking, dreaming or sleeping.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Mantra Meditation - for Buck
On Aug 22, 2011, at 5:38 PM, sparaig wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@... wrote: On Aug 22, 2011, at 5:04 PM, sparaig wrote: I still haven't seen any research, whether, from Shambhala Mountain Center Study, or other studies, that describes the physiological correlates of pure consciousness measured during the practice of Buddhist techniques. Pure consciousness is a TM creation, so I don't expect you'll find such silliness anywhere else. The primary examples of higher states of consciousness are for samadhi in both the Hindu Patanjali traditions and the Buddhist traditions. Both share the same EEG hallmarks BTW. Both represent fourth states, that is states of awareness not normally seen in waking, dreaming or sleeping. LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL What does you think turiya means? Duh, why do you think I keep using the word fourth?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mantra Meditation - for Buck
'Pure Consciousness'=Being=Pure Awareness=Awareness Aware of Itself' That which one becomes familiar when there is 'no mantra/no thoughts' in the TM instruction... That which is experienced as the 'Witness' is 'Pure Consciousness'.. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@... wrote: The most striking silliness is his assertion that real turiya is about states of awareness not normally seen in waking, dreaming or sleeping... I guess, insomuch as you normally don't notice the movie screen while watching the movie, that you could say this, but the way he words it implies something entirely different than: that which is what waking, dreaming or sleeping are projected upon. L. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote: On Aug 22, 2011, at 5:04 PM, sparaig wrote: I still haven't seen any research, whether, from Shambhala Mountain Center Study, or other studies, that describes the physiological correlates of pure consciousness measured during the practice of Buddhist techniques. Pure consciousness is a TM creation Uh, no, it most certainly is not. What a nitwit assertion. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turiya http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2009-02-06/vintage-wisdom/28005396_1_consciousness-mindfulness-universal-flux http://tinyurl.com/3d8jrj4 http://upanishads.pureconsciousness.org/ , so I don't expect you'll find such silliness anywhere else. Only about 620,000 Google hits on pure consciousness that don't refer either to Maharishi or to Transcendental Meditation. The primary examples of higher states of consciousness are for samadhi in both the Hindu Patanjali traditions and the Buddhist traditions. Both share the same EEG hallmarks BTW. Both represent fourth states, that is states of awareness not normally seen in waking, dreaming or sleeping.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mantra Meditation - for Buck
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@ wrote: The most striking silliness is his assertion that real turiya is about states of awareness not normally seen in waking, dreaming or sleeping... I guess, insomuch as you normally don't notice the movie screen while watching the movie, that you could say this, but the way he words it implies something entirely different than: that which is what waking, dreaming or sleeping are projected upon. Even worse: Both represent 'fourth' states, plural, as if there was more than one turiya, one for Patanjali and one for Buddhism. Just gibberish. And turiya isn't a state in any case; as you note, it's what underlies all states. I remain unconvinced that what most Buddhists call calm abiding is really pure consciousness that we talk about. Pure Consciousness during TM is characterized by balanced/coherent alpha between the 2 sides of the parietal lobe and to a lesser extent by balanced/coherent alpha between the front and back parts of the brain (the middle seems to be left out in PC and CC, which suggests that perhaps GC/UC/BC will involve those regions as well, but who knows). The meditative techniques that most people practice, as has been pointed out here, lead to one side of the parietal (pre frontal) lobe becoming less active as well as other reductions in activity of the temporal lobe combined with increases in activity in other parts of the brain: in other words these techniques generate greater *imbalance* in the brain rather than greater balance, and it is these imbalances that lead to the descriptions of bliss, compassion, etc. It is possible that there is some underlying style of functioning that underlies both kinds of effects that scientists haven't detected yet, of course, so that both typical Samatha meditation and TM are really leading to the same place. IMHO, people who claim that, in their experience, TM and other techniques lead to the same place, are ignoring a couple of aphorisms: Bliss isn't blissful (and therefore feelings of bliss can't be used to judge the effectiveness of a technique) and if you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him (meaning to me that whatever you think enlightenment is, it isn't, so don't get attached to some feeling or condition, inside or outside of meditation). Most people in most traditions, including TM, miss the significance of both of these sayings (which, for me, are different ways of saying the same thing, at least in this context). L
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mantra Meditation - for Buck
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@... wrote: On Aug 22, 2011, at 5:38 PM, sparaig wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote: On Aug 22, 2011, at 5:04 PM, sparaig wrote: I still haven't seen any research, whether, from Shambhala Mountain Center Study, or other studies, that describes the physiological correlates of pure consciousness measured during the practice of Buddhist techniques. Pure consciousness is a TM creation, so I don't expect you'll find such silliness anywhere else. The primary examples of higher states of consciousness are for samadhi in both the Hindu Patanjali traditions and the Buddhist traditions. Both share the same EEG hallmarks BTW. Both represent fourth states, that is states of awareness not normally seen in waking, dreaming or sleeping. LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL What does you think turiya means? Duh, why do you think I keep using the word fourth? Are you aware that the oldest of the Upanishads that mentions turiya explicitly says it isn't just another state, but rather that which gives rise to the other states? L.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mantra Meditation - for Buck
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robert babajii_99@... wrote: 'Pure Consciousness'=Being=Pure Awareness=Awareness Aware of Itself' That which one becomes familiar when there is 'no mantra/no thoughts' in the TM instruction... That which is experienced as the 'Witness' is 'Pure Consciousness'.. Of course, during meditation Pure Consciousness isn't aware of anything in any meaningful definition of the words aware of. L.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mantra Meditation - for Buck
As everyone knows, this is counter to TM instruction. The first research on pure consciousness during TM was published more than 25 years ago and quite forcefully explains why this (Sahaj) practice isn't as effective as TM practice. Researchers asked people to press a button when they had an episode of pure consciousness. What the researchers found was that by the time a meditator pushed the button, they were no longer in an unusual state of consciousness: they had returned towards normal (for TM practice) levels of Alplha coherence and relaxed breathing. In other words, by the time you notice you are in pure consciousness during TM, you are actually out of it. Deciding to remain in this quiet state is impossible because the quiet state simply cannot be noticed while you are in it, so all you are doing is detracting from the *process* that is TM. Pure consciousness is totally unimportant during TM. It is the process of the inward stroke of meditation (decreasing mental activity) followed by the outer stroke that matters. Some period of inactivity at the transition between inward and outward is totally unimportant because in order to note that you are in that state of inactivity requires that the mind be active enough to note something in the first place. Research suggests that this will be true for everyone, no matter how long their pure consciousness during TM lasts: if they note that they are in pure consciousness, they are no longer in the pure state. Now, for someone who transcends for an entire meditation period, this model/theory may break down, but how many reading this have 20 minutes of breath suspension during TM practice and how would you know? L --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill emptybill@... wrote: Besides the difference in mantra-s, there is a difference in how the two meditations are done. In Sahaj practice, the understanding is that the mantra doesn't go anywhere so we don't actually lose the mantra. Because we were introduced to the mantra at initiation, it is naturally recognized and recollected when we sit down to meditate. However, if during meditation our attention has been absorbed in thoughts for a while without realizing it, then we just return to the mantra by recognizing it again. If we find our attention aware of thoughts occurring within the mind, that in itself, does not constitute a reason or a need to reintroduce the mantra. Just to rest in silent awareness, although there is no activity or object reference, is in itself meditation because awareness is fundamental while the mind is not. Or as SSRS has said, although you cannot know awareness, because it is not an object, you don't need to do so because you are that very awareness itself prior to mind and to the mind's experiences, whether objective or subjective. ��������������������.. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: The Power of Mantra Contrary to public misinformation, techniques like Transcendental Meditation or Sahaj Samadhi are not based on repetition. They utilize a much subtler science. Om, so are Transcendental Meditation and Sahaj Samadhi effectively the same? The similar practice? Just wondering. Anyone learned both? Anyone here taught both? -B vibrations of consciousness. Mantra carries the mind to the silence that was there before God said, Let there be light. In Sanskrit, mantra means vehicle for the mind: manas - mind, tra - vehicle. Tra is the root of our English suffix, tron. Electrons carry electricity. Positrons carry positivity. Mantras carry mind to its source.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mantra Meditation - for Buck
This explanation conflates the difference between mind/consciousness (citta) and awareness (cit) or, if you prefer, between drishti-matra and buddhi. Awareness is prior to consciousness whether that consciousness is pure or dominated by vritti-s. An act of noticing is an activity of mind/consciousness, while awareness is definitional of what we are. Awareness is independent of the inward or outward stroke of the mind/consciousness and of buddhi-sattva. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@... wrote: As everyone knows, this is counter to TM instruction. In other words, by the time you notice you are in pure consciousness during TM, you are actually out of it. Deciding to remain in this quiet state is impossible because the quiet state simply cannot be noticed while you are in it, so all you are doing is detracting from the *process* that is TM. Pure consciousness is totally unimportant during TM. It is the process of the inward stroke of meditation (decreasing mental activity) followed by the outer stroke that matters. Some period of inactivity at the transition between inward and outward is totally unimportant because in order to note that you are in that state of inactivity requires that the mind be active enough to note something in the first place. L --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill emptybill@ wrote: Besides the difference in mantra-s, there is a difference in how the two meditations are done. In Sahaj practice, the understanding is that the mantra doesn't go anywhere so we don't actually lose the mantra. Because we were introduced to the mantra at initiation, it is naturally recognized and recollected when we sit down to meditate. However, if during meditation our attention has been absorbed in thoughts for a while without realizing it, then we just return to the mantra by recognizing it again. If we find our attention aware of thoughts occurring within the mind, that in itself, does not constitute a reason or a need to reintroduce the mantra. Just to rest in silent awareness, although there is no activity or object reference, is in itself meditation because awareness is fundamental while the mind is not. Or as SSRS has said, although you cannot know awareness, because it is not an object, you don't need to do so because you are that very awareness itself prior to mind and to the mind's experiences, whether objective or subjective. ��������������������.. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: The Power of Mantra Contrary to public misinformation, techniques like Transcendental Meditation or Sahaj Samadhi are not based on repetition. They utilize a much subtler science. Om, so are Transcendental Meditation and Sahaj Samadhi effectively the same? The similar practice? Just wondering. Anyone learned both? Anyone here taught both? -B vibrations of consciousness. Mantra carries the mind to the silence that was there before God said, Let there be light. In Sanskrit, mantra means vehicle for the mind: manas - mind, tra - vehicle. Tra is the root of our English suffix, tron. Electrons carry electricity. Positrons carry positivity. Mantras carry mind to its source.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mantra Meditation - for Buck
* * Nicely put. Our BEing is a priori, ever-present, unconditioned and unconditional... --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill emptybill@... wrote: This explanation conflates the difference between mind/consciousness (citta) and awareness (cit) or, if you prefer, between drishti-matra and buddhi. Awareness is prior to consciousness whether that consciousness is pure or dominated by vritti-s. An act of noticing is an activity of mind/consciousness, while awareness is definitional of what we are. Awareness is independent of the inward or outward stroke of the mind/consciousness and of buddhi-sattva. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@ wrote: As everyone knows, this is counter to TM instruction. In other words, by the time you notice you are in pure consciousness during TM, you are actually out of it. Deciding to remain in this quiet state is impossible because the quiet state simply cannot be noticed while you are in it, so all you are doing is detracting from the *process* that is TM. Pure consciousness is totally unimportant during TM. It is the process of the inward stroke of meditation (decreasing mental activity) followed by the outer stroke that matters. Some period of inactivity at the transition between inward and outward is totally unimportant because in order to note that you are in that state of inactivity requires that the mind be active enough to note something in the first place. L --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill emptybill@ wrote: Besides the difference in mantra-s, there is a difference in how the two meditations are done. In Sahaj practice, the understanding is that the mantra doesn't go anywhere so we don't actually lose the mantra. Because we were introduced to the mantra at initiation, it is naturally recognized and recollected when we sit down to meditate. However, if during meditation our attention has been absorbed in thoughts for a while without realizing it, then we just return to the mantra by recognizing it again. If we find our attention aware of thoughts occurring within the mind, that in itself, does not constitute a reason or a need to reintroduce the mantra. Just to rest in silent awareness, although there is no activity or object reference, is in itself meditation because awareness is fundamental while the mind is not. Or as SSRS has said, although you cannot know awareness, because it is not an object, you don't need to do so because you are that very awareness itself prior to mind and to the mind's experiences, whether objective or subjective. ��������������������.. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: The Power of Mantra Contrary to public misinformation, techniques like Transcendental Meditation or Sahaj Samadhi are not based on repetition. They utilize a much subtler science. Om, so are Transcendental Meditation and Sahaj Samadhi effectively the same? The similar practice? Just wondering. Anyone learned both? Anyone here taught both? -B vibrations of consciousness. Mantra carries the mind to the silence that was there before God said, Let there be light. In Sanskrit, mantra means vehicle for the mind: manas - mind, tra - vehicle. Tra is the root of our English suffix, tron. Electrons carry electricity. Positrons carry positivity. Mantras carry mind to its source.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mantra Meditation - for Buck
You said: If we *find our attention aware of thoughts* occurring within the mind, that in itself, does not constitute a reason or a need to reintroduce the mantra. You're just playing Sanskrit semantic games to avoid admitting that I am correct. REgardless, the proof is in the pudding. After 25 years of people practice the techniques that Sri Sri Ravi Shankar teaches, where is the research on people showing pure consciousness? L --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill emptybill@... wrote: This explanation conflates the difference between mind/consciousness (citta) and awareness (cit) or, if you prefer, between drishti-matra and buddhi. Awareness is prior to consciousness whether that consciousness is pure or dominated by vritti-s. An act of noticing is an activity of mind/consciousness, while awareness is definitional of what we are. Awareness is independent of the inward or outward stroke of the mind/consciousness and of buddhi-sattva. ������������������������������ --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@ wrote: As everyone knows, this is counter to TM instruction. In other words, by the time you notice you are in pure consciousness during TM, you are actually out of it. Deciding to remain in this quiet state is impossible because the quiet state simply cannot be noticed while you are in it, so all you are doing is detracting from the *process* that is TM. Pure consciousness is totally unimportant during TM. It is the process of the inward stroke of meditation (decreasing mental activity) followed by the outer stroke that matters. Some period of inactivity at the transition between inward and outward is totally unimportant because in order to note that you are in that state of inactivity requires that the mind be active enough to note something in the first place. L --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill emptybill@ wrote: Besides the difference in mantra-s, there is a difference in how the two meditations are done. In Sahaj practice, the understanding is that the mantra doesn't go anywhere so we don't actually lose the mantra. Because we were introduced to the mantra at initiation, it is naturally recognized and recollected when we sit down to meditate. However, if during meditation our attention has been absorbed in thoughts for a while without realizing it, then we just return to the mantra by recognizing it again. If we find our attention aware of thoughts occurring within the mind, that in itself, does not constitute a reason or a need to reintroduce the mantra. Just to rest in silent awareness, although there is no activity or object reference, is in itself meditation because awareness is fundamental while the mind is not. Or as SSRS has said, although you cannot know awareness, because it is not an object, you don't need to do so because you are that very awareness itself prior to mind and to the mind's experiences, whether objective or subjective. ��������������������.. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: The Power of Mantra Contrary to public misinformation, techniques like Transcendental Meditation or Sahaj Samadhi are not based on repetition. They utilize a much subtler science. Om, so are Transcendental Meditation and Sahaj Samadhi effectively the same? The similar practice? Just wondering. Anyone learned both? Anyone here taught both? -B vibrations of consciousness. Mantra carries the mind to the silence that was there before God said, Let there be light. In Sanskrit, mantra means vehicle for the mind: manas - mind, tra - vehicle. Tra is the root of our English suffix, tron. Electrons carry electricity. Positrons carry positivity. Mantras carry mind to its source.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mantra Meditation - for Buck
Dear Empty, that's a substantial difference. I wish now I would have known the difference years ago. One of the lady saints coming through some years ago pointed that out too. The difference was like the light came on. Thanks for the clarification between TM process and also may be sitting with the silence. -Buck --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill emptybill@... wrote: Besides the difference in mantra-s, there is a difference in how the two meditations are done. In Sahaj practice, the understanding is that the mantra doesn't go anywhere so we don't actually lose the mantra. Because we were introduced to the mantra at initiation, it is naturally recognized and recollected when we sit down to meditate. However, if during meditation our attention has been absorbed in thoughts for a while without realizing it, then we just return to the mantra by recognizing it again. If we find our attention aware of thoughts occurring within the mind, that in itself, does not constitute a reason or a need to reintroduce the mantra. Just to rest in silent awareness, although there is no activity or object reference, is in itself meditation because awareness is fundamental while the mind is not. Or as SSRS has said, although you cannot know awareness, because it is not an object, you don't need to do so because you are that very awareness itself prior to mind and to the mind's experiences, whether objective or subjective. .. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: The Power of Mantra Contrary to public misinformation, techniques like Transcendental Meditation or Sahaj Samadhi are not based on repetition. They utilize a much subtler science. Om, so are Transcendental Meditation and Sahaj Samadhi effectively the same? The similar practice? Just wondering. Anyone learned both? Anyone here taught both? -B vibrations of consciousness. Mantra carries the mind to the silence that was there before God said, Let there be light. In Sanskrit, mantra means vehicle for the mind: manas - mind, tra - vehicle. Tra is the root of our English suffix, tron. Electrons carry electricity. Positrons carry positivity. Mantras carry mind to its source.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mantra Meditation - for Buck
There is an awareness that becomes established, and then, contemplation of awareness itself, and it's infinite value, becomes the meditation...mantra and sutra become more or less redundant... --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@... wrote: Dear Empty, that's a substantial difference. I wish now I would have known the difference years ago. One of the lady saints coming through some years ago pointed that out too. The difference was like the light came on. Thanks for the clarification between TM process and also may be sitting with the silence. -Buck --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill emptybill@ wrote: Besides the difference in mantra-s, there is a difference in how the two meditations are done. In Sahaj practice, the understanding is that the mantra doesn't go anywhere so we don't actually lose the mantra. Because we were introduced to the mantra at initiation, it is naturally recognized and recollected when we sit down to meditate. However, if during meditation our attention has been absorbed in thoughts for a while without realizing it, then we just return to the mantra by recognizing it again. If we find our attention aware of thoughts occurring within the mind, that in itself, does not constitute a reason or a need to reintroduce the mantra. Just to rest in silent awareness, although there is no activity or object reference, is in itself meditation because awareness is fundamental while the mind is not. Or as SSRS has said, although you cannot know awareness, because it is not an object, you don't need to do so because you are that very awareness itself prior to mind and to the mind's experiences, whether objective or subjective. .. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: The Power of Mantra Contrary to public misinformation, techniques like Transcendental Meditation or Sahaj Samadhi are not based on repetition. They utilize a much subtler science. Om, so are Transcendental Meditation and Sahaj Samadhi effectively the same? The similar practice? Just wondering. Anyone learned both? Anyone here taught both? -B vibrations of consciousness. Mantra carries the mind to the silence that was there before God said, Let there be light. In Sanskrit, mantra means vehicle for the mind: manas - mind, tra - vehicle. Tra is the root of our English suffix, tron. Electrons carry electricity. Positrons carry positivity. Mantras carry mind to its source.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mantra Meditation - for Buck
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill emptybill@... wrote: This explanation conflates the difference between mind/consciousness (citta) and awareness (cit) or, if you prefer, between drishti-matra and buddhi. Not really. Pure consciousness and pure awareness are synonymous in TM lingo. Awareness is prior to consciousness whether that consciousness is pure or dominated by vritti-s. An act of noticing is an activity of mind/consciousness, while awareness is definitional of what we are. Awareness is independent of the inward or outward stroke of the mind/consciousness and of buddhi-sattva. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@ wrote: As everyone knows, this is counter to TM instruction. In other words, by the time you notice you are in pure consciousness during TM, you are actually out of it. Deciding to remain in this quiet state is impossible because the quiet state simply cannot be noticed while you are in it, so all you are doing is detracting from the *process* that is TM. Pure consciousness is totally unimportant during TM. It is the process of the inward stroke of meditation (decreasing mental activity) followed by the outer stroke that matters. Some period of inactivity at the transition between inward and outward is totally unimportant because in order to note that you are in that state of inactivity requires that the mind be active enough to note something in the first place. L --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill emptybill@ wrote: Besides the difference in mantra-s, there is a difference in how the two meditations are done. In Sahaj practice, the understanding is that the mantra doesn't go anywhere so we don't actually lose the mantra. Because we were introduced to the mantra at initiation, it is naturally recognized and recollected when we sit down to meditate. However, if during meditation our attention has been absorbed in thoughts for a while without realizing it, then we just return to the mantra by recognizing it again. If we find our attention aware of thoughts occurring within the mind, that in itself, does not constitute a reason or a need to reintroduce the mantra. Just to rest in silent awareness, although there is no activity or object reference, is in itself meditation because awareness is fundamental while the mind is not. Or as SSRS has said, although you cannot know awareness, because it is not an object, you don't need to do so because you are that very awareness itself prior to mind and to the mind's experiences, whether objective or subjective. ��������������������.. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: The Power of Mantra Contrary to public misinformation, techniques like Transcendental Meditation or Sahaj Samadhi are not based on repetition. They utilize a much subtler science. Om, so are Transcendental Meditation and Sahaj Samadhi effectively the same? The similar practice? Just wondering. Anyone learned both? Anyone here taught both? -B vibrations of consciousness. Mantra carries the mind to the silence that was there before God said, Let there be light. In Sanskrit, mantra means vehicle for the mind: manas - mind, tra - vehicle. Tra is the root of our English suffix, tron. Electrons carry electricity. Positrons carry positivity. Mantras carry mind to its source.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mantra Meditation - for Buck
Besides the difference in mantra-s, there is a difference in how the two meditations are done. In Sahaj practice, the understanding is that the mantra doesn't go anywhere so we don't actually lose the mantra. Because we were introduced to the mantra at initiation, it is naturally recognized and recollected when we sit down to meditate. However, if during meditation our attention has been absorbed in thoughts for a while without realizing it, then we just return to the mantra by recognizing it again. If we find our attention aware of thoughts occurring within the mind, that in itself, does not constitute a reason or a need to reintroduce the mantra. Just to rest in silent awareness, although there is no activity or object reference, is in itself meditation because awareness is fundamental while the mind is not. Or as SSRS has said, although you cannot know awareness, because it is not an object, you don't need to do so because you are that very awareness itself prior to mind and to the mind's experiences, whether objective or subjective. .. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@... wrote: The Power of Mantra Contrary to public misinformation, techniques like Transcendental Meditation or Sahaj Samadhi are not based on repetition. They utilize a much subtler science. Om, so are Transcendental Meditation and Sahaj Samadhi effectively the same? The similar practice? Just wondering. Anyone learned both? Anyone here taught both? -B vibrations of consciousness. Mantra carries the mind to the silence that was there before God said, Let there be light. In Sanskrit, mantra means vehicle for the mind: manas - mind, tra - vehicle. Tra is the root of our English suffix, tron. Electrons carry electricity. Positrons carry positivity. Mantras carry mind to its source.
