Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Practicing SSRS's Sahaj Samadi versus TM/TMSP
On Jan 26, 2011, at 10:30 PM, raviyogi2009 wrote: After all, we've all fallen at least once, no? - not sure if you were referring to my behavior here on the list? Unless we're born as avatars, we're all born fallen and therefore have some inkling of what that means. Spiritual practitioners, like kids learning to ride bicycles, also learn to know what falling looks like.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Practicing SSRS's Sahaj Samadi versus TM/TMSP
I wouldn't characterize it as fallen - sounds too, too Christian. Rather I would say that we all learn from our agonies and ecstasies prior to waking up. After that it is pretty much irrelevant as far as we are concerned. Not sure why you consistently look in the rear view mirror, and obsess over the map you have. The object is to get where we are going, not endlessly analyze how we might get there. :-) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@... wrote: On Jan 26, 2011, at 10:30 PM, raviyogi2009 wrote: After all, we've all fallen at least once, no? - not sure if you were referring to my behavior here on the list? Unless we're born as avatars, we're all born fallen and therefore have some inkling of what that means. Spiritual practitioners, like kids learning to ride bicycles, also learn to know what falling looks like.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Practicing SSRS's Sahaj Samadi versus TM/TMSP
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Tom Pall thomas.pall@... wrote: On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 9:30 PM, Peter drpetersutphen@... wrote: --- On Mon, 1/24/11, nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: Maharishi commented something like; even poison can give enlightenment. But added; don't try this on your own - then He laughed for minutes :-) I have to go with my experiences, Nabs. Maharishi is a blazing ball of Brahman. He produced another blazing ball of Brahman, SSRS. Just like Guru Dev produced MMY. No problems. My dharma, not necessarily yours. No effort on this path is every wasted -- Krishna, *Bhagavad Gita* No effort is wasted because no effort is used! -MMY commentary.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Practicing SSRS's Sahaj Samadi versus TM/TMSP
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@... wrote: On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 9:30 PM, Peter drpetersutphen@ wrote: No effort on this path is every wasted -- Krishna, *Bhagavad Gita* No effort is wasted because no effort is used! -MMY commentary. There are times when reading FFL is like reading a forum on which most people's education stopped at the sixth grade. This is one of those times. Just because you were told something 'way back when doesn't make it true. I find it mind-boggling that people are still so attached to the effortlessness meme that they are still willing to defend it as if it were true. *Especially* when they do so in the face of state- ments from Maharishi himself saying that the reality is more like minimal effort. Where's the problem with admitting that you were given a gross oversimplification aimed at novices originally, and that later, when pinned down on the issue, even Maharishi admitted that it *was* a gross oversimplification? Are you that attached to everything you were told originally being true, or Truth?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Practicing SSRS's Sahaj Samadi versus TM/TMSP
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Tom Pall thomas.pall@ wrote: On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 9:30 PM, Peter drpetersutphen@ wrote: --- On Mon, 1/24/11, nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: Maharishi commented something like; even poison can give enlightenment. But added; don't try this on your own - then He laughed for minutes :-) I have to go with my experiences, Nabs. Maharishi is a blazing ball of Brahman. He produced another blazing ball of Brahman, SSRS. Just like Guru Dev produced MMY. No problems. My dharma, not necessarily yours. No effort on this path is every wasted -- Krishna, *Bhagavad Gita* No effort is wasted because no effort is used! -MMY commentary. That's a good one, very smart. Actually no effort is ever used, as there is no doer :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Practicing SSRS's Sahaj Samadi versus TM/TMSP
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@ wrote: On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 9:30 PM, Peter drpetersutphen@ wrote: No effort on this path is every wasted -- Krishna, *Bhagavad Gita* No effort is wasted because no effort is used! -MMY commentary. There are times when reading FFL is like reading a forum on which most people's education stopped at the sixth grade. This is one of those times. Just because you were told something 'way back when doesn't make it true. I find it mind-boggling that people are still so attached to the effortlessness meme that they are still willing to defend it as if it were true. *Especially* when they do so in the face of state- ments from Maharishi himself saying that the reality is more like minimal effort. I agree with you here, so statements like this are more an approximation, or true seen from a sort of absolute level. I remember on my TTC, when we did checking every day, we all started to think that we do it somehow wrong. I defenitly thought so, until Maharishi himself explained it in a tape, it must have been a fairly common phenomenon. In learning, and repeating the phrases, we of course *tryed* to do it right, and this intention, unvoluntarily created quite some effort. All we could do is relax, take it easy, and wait till this phase was over. In a way, much of it is the confirmation that you are doing it alright, which relaxes people. Where's the problem with admitting that you were given a gross oversimplification aimed at novices originally, and that later, when pinned down on the issue, even Maharishi admitted that it *was* a gross oversimplification? Are you that attached to everything you were told originally being true, or Truth?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Practicing SSRS's Sahaj Samadi versus TM/TMSP
On Jan 26, 2011, at 5:05 AM, turquoiseb wrote: There are times when reading FFL is like reading a forum on which most people's education stopped at the sixth grade. This is one of those times. Just because you were told something 'way back when doesn't make it true. I find it mind-boggling that people are still so attached to the effortlessness meme that they are still willing to defend it as if it were true. *Especially* when they do so in the face of state- ments from Maharishi himself saying that the reality is more like minimal effort. Where's the problem with admitting that you were given a gross oversimplification aimed at novices originally, and that later, when pinned down on the issue, even Maharishi admitted that it *was* a gross oversimplification? Are you that attached to everything you were told originally being true, or Truth? The Council for the Restoration of the Purity of the Tradition recommends using minimal effort, easy, natural or bare effort. All those still using effortlessness or effortless after Jan. 1st 2012, will have their badges and decoder rings revoked. The ME forcefield will also be withdrawn from around their residences, (unless living on campus).
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Practicing SSRS's Sahaj Samadi versus TM/TMSP
On Jan 26, 2011, at 3:34 AM, sparaig wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Tom Pall thomas.pall@... wrote: On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 9:30 PM, Peter drpetersutphen@... wrote: --- On Mon, 1/24/11, nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: Maharishi commented something like; even poison can give enlightenment. But added; don't try this on your own - then He laughed for minutes :-) I have to go with my experiences, Nabs. Maharishi is a blazing ball of Brahman. He produced another blazing ball of Brahman, SSRS. Just like Guru Dev produced MMY. No problems. My dharma, not necessarily yours. No effort on this path is every wasted -- Krishna, *Bhagavad Gita* No effort is wasted because no effort is used! -MMY commentary. Effort achieves the goal. - Shiva Sutra
[FairfieldLife] Re: Practicing SSRS's Sahaj Samadi versus TM/TMSP
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, blusc0ut no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Tom Pall thomas.pall@ wrote: On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 9:30 PM, Peter drpetersutphen@ wrote: --- On Mon, 1/24/11, nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: Maharishi commented something like; even poison can give enlightenment. But added; don't try this on your own - then He laughed for minutes :-) I have to go with my experiences, Nabs. Maharishi is a blazing ball of Brahman. He produced another blazing ball of Brahman, SSRS. Just like Guru Dev produced MMY. No problems. My dharma, not necessarily yours. No effort on this path is every wasted -- Krishna, *Bhagavad Gita* No effort is wasted because no effort is used! -MMY commentary. That's a good one, very smart. Actually no effort is ever used, as there is no doer :-) People like to tell me that intent is 'required to meditate and therefore there has to be some effort. MMY said least effort in the directon of less effort and my observation is that whatever effort you find yourself using, is more than is necessary. Of course, if the effort is so slight that you don't even notice, is there effort or not? ANd if meditation begins spontaneously without you even noticing until 20 or so minutes later that you have begun thinking the mantra and going through cycles of mantra, thoughts, mantra, thoughts, no mantra, no thoughts, mantra, thoughts, etc., did you use effort to begin? If there's no effort to begin, and no effort to continue and you drift into the sutras practice spontaneously after 20 minutes of the above, again without noticing, and then drift into Yogic Flying practice... Where's the effort? Mind you I'm not claiming that this is a good/best/worst/ideal situation, just that it has happened. Lawson
[FairfieldLife] Re: Practicing SSRS's Sahaj Samadi versus TM/TMSP
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@ wrote: On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 9:30 PM, Peter drpetersutphen@ wrote: No effort on this path is every wasted -- Krishna, *Bhagavad Gita* No effort is wasted because no effort is used! -MMY commentary. There are times when reading FFL is like reading a forum on which most people's education stopped at the sixth grade. This is one of those times. Just because you were told something 'way back when doesn't make it true. Indeed. Sometimes it's personal experience that leads you to think it's true. I find it mind-boggling that people are still so attached to the effortlessness meme that they are still willing to defend it as if it were true. Those of us whose experience is that TM is effortless should STFU? *Especially* when they do so in the face of state- ments from Maharishi himself saying that the reality is more like minimal effort. I haven't seen one statement from MMY quoted here, or anywhere else, that contradicts my experience in this regard. Where's the problem with admitting that you were given a gross oversimplification aimed at novices originally, and that later, when pinned down on the issue, even Maharishi admitted that it *was* a gross oversimplification? Admitting this is a problem if it doesn't seem to be the case. Are you that attached to everything you were told originally being true, or Truth? Nope.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Practicing SSRS's Sahaj Samadi versus TM/TMSP
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, blusc0ut no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Tom Pall thomas.pall@ wrote: snip No effort on this path is every wasted -- Krishna, *Bhagavad Gita* No effort is wasted because no effort is used! -MMY commentary. That's a good one, very smart. Actually no effort is ever used, as there is no doer :-) That's the bottom line. And disagreement here about no doer is the source of the disagreement about the effortlessness of TM. That never occurred to me before, but you've nailed it. In that sense, TM gives you the clear experience of no doer --if you're open to it. If you're not open to it, if you're a control freak, you will probably always find that TM requires effort.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Practicing SSRS's Sahaj Samadi versus TM/TMSP
On Jan 26, 2011, at 10:08 AM, sparaig wrote: Effort achieves the goal. - Shiva Sutra Goal? We don't need no stinkin' goal. Buddha Berra. The goal refers to jivanmukti, or liberation in this very life.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Practicing SSRS's Sahaj Samadi versus TM/TMSP
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@... wrote: On Jan 26, 2011, at 10:08 AM, sparaig wrote: Effort achieves the goal. - Shiva Sutra Goal? We don't need no stinkin' goal. Buddha Berra. The goal refers to jivanmukti, or liberation in this very life. Irony is wasted on you, isn't it... L.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Practicing SSRS's Sahaj Samadi versus TM/TMSP
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@ wrote: On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 9:30 PM, Peter drpetersutphen@ wrote: No effort on this path is every wasted -- Krishna, *Bhagavad Gita* No effort is wasted because no effort is used! -MMY commentary. There are times when reading FFL is like reading a forum on which most people's education stopped at the sixth grade. This is one of those times. Just because you were told something 'way back when doesn't make it true. I find it mind-boggling that people are still so attached to the effortlessness meme that they are still willing to defend it as if it were true. *Especially* when they do so in the face of state- ments from Maharishi himself saying that the reality is more like minimal effort. Where's the problem with admitting that you were given a gross oversimplification aimed at novices originally, and that later, when pinned down on the issue, even Maharishi admitted that it *was* a gross oversimplification? Are you that attached to everything you were told originally being true, or Truth? Well if he said it the way you claim he did, then obviously he didn't get it either. Lawson
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Practicing SSRS's Sahaj Samadi versus TM/TMSP
On Jan 26, 2011, at 10:20 AM, sparaig wrote: People like to tell me that intent is 'required to meditate and therefore there has to be some effort. MMY said least effort in the directon of less effort and my observation is that whatever effort you find yourself using, is more than is necessary. Of course, if the effort is so slight that you don't even notice, is there effort or not? ANd if meditation begins spontaneously without you even noticing until 20 or so minutes later that you have begun thinking the mantra and going through cycles of mantra, thoughts, mantra, thoughts, no mantra, no thoughts, mantra, thoughts, etc., did you use effort to begin? If there's no effort to begin, and no effort to continue and you drift into the sutras practice spontaneously after 20 minutes of the above, again without noticing, and then drift into Yogic Flying practice... Where's the effort? Mind you I'm not claiming that this is a good/best/worst/ideal situation, just that it has happened. But you still needed the mantra. You needed an object; your preference being your personal mantra. Saying you're not using the mantra as a support in a technique, would be like climbing on a roof using a ladder and then claiming you got there effortlessly because you are very used to climbing ladders! You still needed the support of the ladder and had to make a minimal amount of effort to use it.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Practicing SSRS's Sahaj Samadi versus TM/TMSP
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@... wrote: On Jan 26, 2011, at 10:20 AM, sparaig wrote: People like to tell me that intent is 'required to meditate and therefore there has to be some effort. MMY said least effort in the directon of less effort and my observation is that whatever effort you find yourself using, is more than is necessary. Of course, if the effort is so slight that you don't even notice, is there effort or not? ANd if meditation begins spontaneously without you even noticing until 20 or so minutes later that you have begun thinking the mantra and going through cycles of mantra, thoughts, mantra, thoughts, no mantra, no thoughts, mantra, thoughts, etc., did you use effort to begin? If there's no effort to begin, and no effort to continue and you drift into the sutras practice spontaneously after 20 minutes of the above, again without noticing, and then drift into Yogic Flying practice... Where's the effort? Mind you I'm not claiming that this is a good/best/worst/ideal situation, just that it has happened. But you still needed the mantra. You needed an object; your preference being your personal mantra. Saying you're not using the mantra as a support in a technique, would be like climbing on a roof using a ladder and then claiming you got there effortlessly because you are very used to climbing ladders! You still needed the support of the ladder and had to make a minimal amount of effort to use it. How do you (or I) know that I thought the mantra 20 minutes ago without noticing? I assume that is how I slipped into the practice, but since I didn't notice starting to think the mantra, perhaps I didn't. Sheesh. You're hung up on what *I* need or don't need. Have you noticed? Lawson
[FairfieldLife] Re: Practicing SSRS's Sahaj Samadi versus TM/TMSP
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote: On Jan 26, 2011, at 3:34 AM, sparaig wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Tom Pall thomas.pall@ wrote: snip No effort on this path is every wasted -- Krishna, *Bhagavad Gita* No effort is wasted because no effort is used! -MMY commentary. Effort achieves the goal. - Shiva Sutra Goal? We don't need no stinkin' goal. Buddha Berra. It's one-liners like these that lead me to think Lawson may be the smartest person on this forum.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Practicing SSRS's Sahaj Samadi versus TM/TMSP
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote: On Jan 26, 2011, at 10:20 AM, sparaig wrote: People like to tell me that intent is 'required to meditate and therefore there has to be some effort. MMY said least effort in the directon of less effort and my observation is that whatever effort you find yourself using, is more than is necessary. Of course, if the effort is so slight that you don't even notice, is there effort or not? ANd if meditation begins spontaneously without you even noticing until 20 or so minutes later that you have begun thinking the mantra and going through cycles of mantra, thoughts, mantra, thoughts, no mantra, no thoughts, mantra, thoughts, etc., did you use effort to begin? If there's no effort to begin, and no effort to continue and you drift into the sutras practice spontaneously after 20 minutes of the above, again without noticing, and then drift into Yogic Flying practice... Where's the effort? Mind you I'm not claiming that this is a good/best/worst/ideal situation, just that it has happened. But you still needed the mantra. You needed an object; your preference being your personal mantra. Saying you're not using the mantra as a support in a technique, would be like climbing on a roof using a ladder and then claiming you got there effortlessly because you are very used to climbing ladders! You still needed the support of the ladder and had to make a minimal amount of effort to use it. How do you (or I) know that I thought the mantra 20 minutes ago without noticing? I assume that is how I slipped into the practice, but since I didn't notice starting to think the mantra, perhaps I didn't. Sheesh. You're hung up on what *I* need or don't need. Have you noticed? Lawson BTW, how do you know what I mean by mantra in the first place? Are you sitting in my head, evaluating my thinking process, judging how refined or not refined it has become? I sometimes get the impression that for you, mantra is this sacred mental phonetic thing that is always well-defined or at least hemi-semi-demi-well-defined. Where do you draw the line between thinking the mantra, thinking some other thought, or simply being? I often find that the distinction between mantra and other thoughts becomes less and less obvious. Likewise, as with making a distinction between thinking and not thinking, it easily becomes irrelevant. Again, it seems to me that you have a need to categorize everything into nice, neat categories. This may be the source of your frustration with TM, you know. Lawson
[FairfieldLife] Re: Practicing SSRS's Sahaj Samadi versus TM/TMSP
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, blusc0ut no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Tom Pall thomas.pall@ wrote: snip No effort on this path is every wasted -- Krishna, *Bhagavad Gita* No effort is wasted because no effort is used! -MMY commentary. That's a good one, very smart. Actually no effort is ever used, as there is no doer :-) That's the bottom line. And disagreement here about no doer is the source of the disagreement about the effortlessness of TM. That never occurred to me before, but you've nailed it. In that sense, TM gives you the clear experience of no doer --if you're open to it. If you're not open to it, if you're a control freak, you will probably always find that TM requires effort. TM is just a different process which uses a passive approach to achieving TC. IN TM the reduction of metabolic rate is a bi-product of the mind settling down, doesn't mean TM is the ONLY correct meditation system. In other systems where they use Dharana or Concentration the mind and *will* are used *actively* to do the same thing. Some think Dharana is superior because it does give the practitioner 'conscious' control of the process. In TM you are subject to the vagaries of the nervous system (sleep, etc.). Spending two hours concentrating on the eye-focus each day will help our attention withdraw from the body. Generally our sensory currents which give us sensation of this physical world are spread out through the body. As we concentrate at the seat of the soul, the sensory currents start withdrawing from our extremities. They come up from our feet and legs to our trunk. Eventually they are totally concentrated at the seat of the soul. Once at that point, a vista of divine Light and celestial Sound opens up for us. Sant Mat description of Dharana.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Practicing SSRS's Sahaj Samadi versus TM/TMSP
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wgm4u wgm4u@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, blusc0ut no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Tom Pall thomas.pall@ wrote: snip No effort on this path is every wasted -- Krishna, *Bhagavad Gita* No effort is wasted because no effort is used! -MMY commentary. That's a good one, very smart. Actually no effort is ever used, as there is no doer :-) That's the bottom line. And disagreement here about no doer is the source of the disagreement about the effortlessness of TM. That never occurred to me before, but you've nailed it. In that sense, TM gives you the clear experience of no doer --if you're open to it. If you're not open to it, if you're a control freak, you will probably always find that TM requires effort. TM is just a different process which uses a passive approach to achieving TC. IN TM the reduction of metabolic rate is a bi-product of the mind settling down, --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wgm4u wgm4u@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, blusc0ut no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Tom Pall thomas.pall@ wrote: snip No effort on this path is every wasted -- Krishna, *Bhagavad Gita* No effort is wasted because no effort is used! -MMY commentary. That's a good one, very smart. Actually no effort is ever used, as there is no doer :-) That's the bottom line. And disagreement here about no doer is the source of the disagreement about the effortlessness of TM. That never occurred to me before, but you've nailed it. In that sense, TM gives you the clear experience of no doer --if you're open to it. If you're not open to it, if you're a control freak, you will probably always find that TM requires effort. TM is just a different process which uses a passive approach to achieving TC. IN TM the reduction of metabolic rate is a bi-product of the mind settling down, doesn't mean TM is the ONLY correct meditation system. In other systems where they use Dharana or Concentration the mind and *will* are used *actively* to do the same thing. Some think Dharana is superior because it does give the practitioner 'conscious' control of the process. In TM you are subject to the vagaries of the nervous system (sleep, etc.). Spending two hours concentrating on the eye-focus each day will help our attention withdraw from the body. Generally our sensory currents which give us sensation of this physical world are spread out through the body. As we concentrate at the seat of the soul, the sensory currents start withdrawing from our extremities. They come up from our feet and legs to our trunk. Eventually they are totally concentrated at the seat of the soul. Once at that point, a vista of divine Light and celestial Sound opens up for us. Sant Mat description of Dharana. There's an assumption that this process leads to something worthwhile. doesn't mean TM is the ONLY correct meditation system. Doesn't mean it isn't, either. In other systems where they use Dharana or Concentration the mind and *will* are used *actively* to do the same thing. Some think Dharana is superior because it does give the practitioner 'conscious' control of the process. In TM you are subject to the vagaries of the nervous system (sleep, etc.). Spending two hours concentrating on the eye-focus each day will help our attention withdraw from the body. Generally our sensory currents which give us sensation of this physical world are spread out through the body. As we concentrate at the seat of the soul, the sensory currents start withdrawing from our extremities. They come up from our feet and legs to our trunk. Eventually they are totally concentrated at the seat of the soul. Once at that point, a vista of divine Light and celestial Sound opens up for us. Sant Mat description of Dharana. There's an assumption that this process leads to something worthwhile. Lawson
[FairfieldLife] Re: Practicing SSRS's Sahaj Samadi versus TM/TMSP
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wgm4u wgm4u@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, blusc0ut no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Tom Pall thomas.pall@ wrote: snip No effort on this path is every wasted -- Krishna, *Bhagavad Gita* No effort is wasted because no effort is used! -MMY commentary. That's a good one, very smart. Actually no effort is ever used, as there is no doer :-) That's the bottom line. And disagreement here about no doer is the source of the disagreement about the effortlessness of TM. That never occurred to me before, but you've nailed it. In that sense, TM gives you the clear experience of no doer --if you're open to it. If you're not open to it, if you're a control freak, you will probably always find that TM requires effort. TM is just a different process which uses a passive approach to achieving TC. IN TM the reduction of metabolic rate is a bi-product of the mind settling down, doesn't mean TM is the ONLY correct meditation system. I don't believe I said it was, did I? In other systems where they use Dharana or Concentration the mind and *will* are used *actively* to do the same thing. Yes, I know. Some think Dharana is superior because it does give the practitioner 'conscious' control of the process. In TM you are subject to the vagaries of the nervous system (sleep, etc.). Which isn't a bug, it's a feature. Unless, of course, you trust your intellect over your nervous system.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Practicing SSRS's Sahaj Samadi versus TM/TMSP
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@... wrote: Spending two hours concentrating on the eye-focus each day will help our attention withdraw from the body. Generally our sensory currents which give us sensation of this physical world are spread out through the body. As we concentrate at the seat of the soul, the sensory currents start withdrawing from our extremities. They come up from our feet and legs to our trunk. Eventually they are totally concentrated at the seat of the soul. Once at that point, a vista of divine Light and celestial Sound opens up for us. Sant Mat description of Dharana. There's an assumption that this process leads to something worthwhile. Can't the same thing be said of TM?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Practicing SSRS's Sahaj Samadi versus TM/TMSP
There is only a non-doer when there is a non-doer. When this is the condition then there is the dharma of non-doing. Prior to this there is a doer and the dharma associated with a doer. --- On Wed, 1/26/11, sparaig lengli...@cox.net wrote: From: sparaig lengli...@cox.net Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Practicing SSRS's Sahaj Samadi versus TM/TMSP To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, January 26, 2011, 11:42 AM --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wgm4u wgm4u@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, blusc0ut no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Tom Pall thomas.pall@ wrote: snip No effort on this path is every wasted -- Krishna, *Bhagavad Gita* No effort is wasted because no effort is used! -MMY commentary. That's a good one, very smart. Actually no effort is ever used, as there is no doer :-) That's the bottom line. And disagreement here about no doer is the source of the disagreement about the effortlessness of TM. That never occurred to me before, but you've nailed it. In that sense, TM gives you the clear experience of no doer --if you're open to it. If you're not open to it, if you're a control freak, you will probably always find that TM requires effort. TM is just a different process which uses a passive approach to achieving TC. IN TM the reduction of metabolic rate is a bi-product of the mind settling down, --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wgm4u wgm4u@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, blusc0ut no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Tom Pall thomas.pall@ wrote: snip No effort on this path is every wasted -- Krishna, *Bhagavad Gita* No effort is wasted because no effort is used! -MMY commentary. That's a good one, very smart. Actually no effort is ever used, as there is no doer :-) That's the bottom line. And disagreement here about no doer is the source of the disagreement about the effortlessness of TM. That never occurred to me before, but you've nailed it. In that sense, TM gives you the clear experience of no doer --if you're open to it. If you're not open to it, if you're a control freak, you will probably always find that TM requires effort. TM is just a different process which uses a passive approach to achieving TC. IN TM the reduction of metabolic rate is a bi-product of the mind settling down, doesn't mean TM is the ONLY correct meditation system. In other systems where they use Dharana or Concentration the mind and *will* are used *actively* to do the same thing. Some think Dharana is superior because it does give the practitioner 'conscious' control of the process. In TM you are subject to the vagaries of the nervous system (sleep, etc.). Spending two hours concentrating on the eye-focus each day will help our attention withdraw from the body. Generally our sensory currents which give us sensation of this physical world are spread out through the body. As we concentrate at the seat of the soul, the sensory currents start withdrawing from our extremities. They come up from our feet and legs to our trunk. Eventually they are totally concentrated at the seat of the soul. Once at that point, a vista of divine Light and celestial Sound opens up for us. Sant Mat description of Dharana. There's an assumption that this process leads to something worthwhile. doesn't mean TM is the ONLY correct meditation system. Doesn't mean it isn't, either. In other systems where they use Dharana or Concentration the mind and *will* are used *actively* to do the same thing. Some think Dharana is superior because it does give the practitioner 'conscious' control of the process. In TM you are subject to the vagaries of the nervous system (sleep, etc.). Spending two hours concentrating on the eye-focus each day will help our attention withdraw from the body. Generally our sensory currents which give us sensation of this physical world are spread out through the body. As we concentrate at the seat of the soul, the sensory currents start withdrawing from our extremities. They come up from our feet and legs to our trunk. Eventually they are totally concentrated at the seat of the soul. Once at that point, a vista of divine Light and celestial Sound opens up for us. Sant Mat description of Dharana. There's an assumption that this process leads to something worthwhile. Lawson
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Practicing SSRS's Sahaj Samadi versus TM/TMSP
On Jan 26, 2011, at 11:23 AM, sparaig wrote: How do you (or I) know that I thought the mantra 20 minutes ago without noticing? I assume that is how I slipped into the practice, but since I didn't notice starting to think the mantra, perhaps I didn't. Sheesh. You're hung up on what *I* need or don't need. Have you noticed? Well you're either practicing meditation with a mantra or you're not. You may just not have been mindful during your practice or you were not able to discern your object clearly for whatever reason.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Practicing SSRS's Sahaj Samadi versus TM/TMSP
Right on! :-) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@... wrote: On Jan 26, 2011, at 10:08 AM, sparaig wrote: Effort achieves the goal. - Shiva Sutra Goal? We don't need no stinkin' goal. Buddha Berra. The goal refers to jivanmukti, or liberation in this very life.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Practicing SSRS's Sahaj Samadi versus TM/TMSP
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter drpetersutphen@... wrote: There is only a non-doer when there is a non-doer. When this is the condition then there is the dharma of non-doing. Prior to this there is a doer and the dharma associated with a doer. My contention is that there is never a non-doer. There is only the subjective perception of non-doing or not the doer. Perception doesn't make it so. As someone who occasionally treats crazy people, you should know that. :-)
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Practicing SSRS's Sahaj Samadi versus TM/TMSP
On Jan 26, 2011, at 11:33 AM, sparaig wrote: BTW, how do you know what I mean by mantra in the first place? The assumption I was making was that you were referring to the practice of TM. Are you sitting in my head, evaluating my thinking process, judging how refined or not refined it has become? I sometimes get the impression that for you, mantra is this sacred mental phonetic thing that is always well-defined or at least hemi-semi-demi-well-defined. Where do you draw the line between thinking the mantra, thinking some other thought, or simply being? I often find that the distinction between mantra and other thoughts becomes less and less obvious. Likewise, as with making a distinction between thinking and not thinking, it easily becomes irrelevant. Again, it seems to me that you have a need to categorize everything into nice, neat categories. This may be the source of your frustration with TM, you know. I really never had much or any frustration with TM. I simply went to another teacher and learned the full chain of my TM mantra, her dhyana-vidhi (visualizations) and how to use her yantra and do the necessary yagyas. So rather than frustration, I felt fulfillment, as I reached a point where I did not have any more questions. It actually wasn't I who categorized mantra-shastra, it was the sages who developed mantric science or mantra-vidya. Every fluctuation or variation of mantra practice has already been examined and their good points vs. bad points evaluated and passed down, from realizer to realizer. Now whether or not you think that is important or not is up to you. Anyone's mileage may vary.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Practicing SSRS's Sahaj Samadi versus TM/TMSP
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wgm4u wgm4u@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@ wrote: Spending two hours concentrating on the eye-focus each day will help our attention withdraw from the body. Generally our sensory currents which give us sensation of this physical world are spread out through the body. As we concentrate at the seat of the soul, the sensory currents start withdrawing from our extremities. They come up from our feet and legs to our trunk. Eventually they are totally concentrated at the seat of the soul. Once at that point, a vista of divine Light and celestial Sound opens up for us. Sant Mat description of Dharana. There's an assumption that this process leads to something worthwhile. Can't the same thing be said of TM? Well, the message as I conceived it, included that point, but somehow my quoting get messed up. Lawson
[FairfieldLife] Re: Practicing SSRS's Sahaj Samadi versus TM/TMSP
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter drpetersutphen@... wrote: There is only a non-doer when there is a non-doer. When this is the condition then there is the dharma of non-doing. Prior to this there is a doer and the dharma associated with a doer. Right on Peter; when you're in a dream accident, and hit a dream wall, you feel a dream pain. Life is a waking dream Charlie Lutes Not until you 'awake' is the REALity experienced
[FairfieldLife] Re: Practicing SSRS's Sahaj Samadi versus TM/TMSP
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@... wrote: On Jan 26, 2011, at 11:23 AM, sparaig wrote: How do you (or I) know that I thought the mantra 20 minutes ago without noticing? I assume that is how I slipped into the practice, but since I didn't notice starting to think the mantra, perhaps I didn't. Sheesh. You're hung up on what *I* need or don't need. Have you noticed? Well you're either practicing meditation with a mantra or you're not. You may just not have been mindful during your practice or you were not able to discern your object clearly for whatever reason. If you say so, Vaj. As *I* have noted many times, you appear to never have gotten it. That's OK. It is almost certainly the case that I don't get it either. Lawson
[FairfieldLife] Re: Practicing SSRS's Sahaj Samadi versus TM/TMSP
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@... wrote: On Jan 26, 2011, at 11:33 AM, sparaig wrote: BTW, how do you know what I mean by mantra in the first place? The assumption I was making was that you were referring to the practice of TM. Are you sitting in my head, evaluating my thinking process, judging how refined or not refined it has become? I sometimes get the impression that for you, mantra is this sacred mental phonetic thing that is always well-defined or at least hemi-semi-demi-well-defined. Where do you draw the line between thinking the mantra, thinking some other thought, or simply being? I often find that the distinction between mantra and other thoughts becomes less and less obvious. Likewise, as with making a distinction between thinking and not thinking, it easily becomes irrelevant. Again, it seems to me that you have a need to categorize everything into nice, neat categories. This may be the source of your frustration with TM, you know. I really never had much or any frustration with TM. I simply went to another teacher and learned the full chain of my TM mantra, her dhyana-vidhi (visualizations) and how to use her yantra and do the necessary yagyas. So rather than frustration, I felt fulfillment, as I reached a point where I did not have any more questions. It actually wasn't I who categorized mantra-shastra, it was the sages who developed mantric science or mantra-vidya. Every fluctuation or variation of mantra practice has already been examined and their good points vs. bad points evaluated and passed down, from realizer to realizer. Now whether or not you think that is important or not is up to you. Anyone's mileage may vary. ... Speechless.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Practicing SSRS's Sahaj Samadi versus TM/TMSP
It is a different kind of meditation Vaj. There is never an attempt to discern the object clearly with TM. The focus in TM, if you can call it that, is on the movement of the widening of the container of consciousness, not on any object within it. The dynamic of consciousness expansion is the focus, if you can call it that, in the front of the mind. Because consciousness is always moving, there is no object to discern. The mechanics are quite different from what you are describing, Vaj. During the practice of TM, The mantra is appreciated over time, at random intervals of attention, shedding its own soft light on whatever state of consciousness we find ourselves in, and on whatever random thoughts may be associated with that. That flow of attention from the mantra to thoughts or no thoughts, and back, is not to be appreciated or judged, but just easily experienced. Less structured. More holistic, outside of logic, unless we want to include discrimination between this and that without judgment, as logic. You are just describing a different form of meditation.:-) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@... wrote: On Jan 26, 2011, at 11:23 AM, sparaig wrote: How do you (or I) know that I thought the mantra 20 minutes ago without noticing? I assume that is how I slipped into the practice, but since I didn't notice starting to think the mantra, perhaps I didn't. Sheesh. You're hung up on what *I* need or don't need. Have you noticed? Well you're either practicing meditation with a mantra or you're not. You may just not have been mindful during your practice or you were not able to discern your object clearly for whatever reason.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Practicing SSRS's Sahaj Samadi versus TM/TMSP
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@... wrote: No effort is wasted because no effort is used! -MMY commentary. Effort achieves the goal. - Shiva Sutra Oh shucks! Which suutra, whose translation? :(
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Practicing SSRS's Sahaj Samadi versus TM/TMSP
On Jan 26, 2011, at 12:15 PM, sparaig wrote: You may just not have been mindful during your practice or you were not able to discern your object clearly for whatever reason. If you say so, Vaj. As *I* have noted many times, you appear to never have gotten it. You have said that, but that certainly does not make it true. I've certainly never had any trouble understanding transcending in theory or in practice. Please keep in mind a number of TM teachers on this list have accused you of practicing TM incorrectly. That's OK. It is almost certainly the case that I don't get it either. Well given your previous personal descriptions of your TM practice, I'd say you might be on to something there. You need to learn to take it easy.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Practicing SSRS's Sahaj Samadi versus TM/TMSP
Re: ...there is the dharma of non-doing. Right, but it takes an apparent person to even say that. Doership/non-doership are rolled into one: the Self/non-doer as apparent existence. Nobody (who is anybody) can excape conditional reality as long as they are embodied. The statement I'm a non-doer would be incorrect, if somebody's saying that, since the statement omits the apparent reality part. ... The apparent reality part brings doership in the relative sense back to square one, with all of the attendant consequences of A-dharmic behavior and the accumulation of even more bad karma. ... So, there's A-dharma of non-doing also!. Have we forgotten the behavior of certain Gurus?...or, is somebody saying they are incapable of A-dharmic behavior.? ...The separate Ego may vanish if one defines Ego only in terms of identification (i.e. the notion of a doer separate from the Self). But when that Ego vanishes there's always (with any embodiment), the social or transactional Ego, which includes the way people as individuals typically react in social cirumstances. Conditioning plays a major role in this. Some conditioned behavior is useful in that without it, people would have to continually reconstruct behavior and the mannerisms of social interaction. No need to do this, such behavior simply carries on as before. http://www.fantasygallery.net/morill/art_2_knight.html --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter drpetersutphen@ wrote: There is only a non-doer when there is a non-doer. When this is the condition then there is the dharma of non-doing. Prior to this there is a doer and the dharma associated with a doer. My contention is that there is never a non-doer. There is only the subjective perception of non-doing or not the doer. Perception doesn't make it so. As someone who occasionally treats crazy people, you should know that. :-)
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Practicing SSRS's Sahaj Samadi versus TM/TMSP
On Jan 26, 2011, at 12:35 PM, cardemaister wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@... wrote:
No effort is wasted because no effort is used! -MMY commentary.
Effort achieves the goal. - Shiva Sutra
Oh shucks! Which suutra, whose translation? :(
2:2 prayatnah sādhakah
Kshemaraja explains the mechanics and dependencies of what level of
practice you're at as to whether or not effort is necessary. If
you're using an alambana (Alambana), then effort is required.
The translation is from Mark Dyczkowski
prayatna
m. persevering effort , continued exertion or endeavour , exertion
bestowed on (loc. or comp.) , activity , action , act Mn. MBh. c.
(instr. sg. and pl. abl. and %{-tas} ind. with special effort ,
zealously , diligently , carefully ; %{-tna} ibc. and %{-tnAt} ind.
also = hardly , scarcely) ; great care , caution Pan5cat. ; (in
phil.) active efforts (of 3 kinds , viz. engaging in any act ,
prosecuting it , and completing it) ; pl. volitions (one of the 17
qualities of the Vais3eshikas) IW. 68 ; (in gram.) effort in
uttering , mode of articulation (also %{Asya-pray-} , distinguished
into %{Abhyantara-p-} and %{bAhya-p-} , internal and external effort)
Pra1t. Pa1n2. 1-1 , 9 Sch. ; (%{A}) f. N. of a partic. S3ruti
Sam2gi1t. ; %{-cchid} mfn. frustrating a person's (gen.) efforts
Mudr. ; %{-pre7kSaNIya} mfn. hardly visible S3ak. ; %{-muktA7sana}
mfn. rising with difficulty from a seat Ragh. ; %{-vat} mfn.
assiduous , diligent , persevering Ka1m. ; %{-tnA7nanda} m. N. of wk.
sAdhaka
mf(%{ikA})n. effective , efficient , productive of (gen. or comp.) ,
accomplishing , fulfilling , completing , perfecting , finishing MBh.
Ka1v. c. ; energizing (said of the fire supposed to burn within the
heart and direct the faculty of volition) Sus3r. ; adapted to any
purpose , useful , advantageous MBh. Pur. ; effecting by magic ,
magical Pan5cat. Ra1jat. ; demonstrating , conclusive , proving
Sarvad. ; m. an assistant Ka1v. ; an efficient or skilful person ,
(esp.) an adept , magician Katha1s. ; a worshipper Ma1lati1m. ; (%
{akA}) f. N. of Durga1 L. ; (%{ikA}) f. very deep or profound sleep
(= %{su-Supti}) L. ; a skilful or efficient woman MW. ; n. (prob.) = %
{sAdhana} , proof , argument Kap.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Practicing SSRS's Sahaj Samadi versus TM/TMSP
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wgm4u wgm4u@... wrote: Spending two hours concentrating on the eye-focus each day will help our attention withdraw from the body. Can this also help to solve the convergence/focus problem with 3D flatscreens? Could watching 'Avatar' every day for 2 hours with glasses on a wide screen have the same effect? I do see a solution here.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Practicing SSRS's Sahaj Samadi versus TM/TMSP
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@... wrote:
On Jan 26, 2011, at 12:35 PM, cardemaister wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote:
No effort is wasted because no effort is used! -MMY commentary.
Effort achieves the goal. - Shiva Sutra
Oh shucks! Which suutra, whose translation? :(
2:2 prayatnah sÄdhakah
Kshemaraja explains the mechanics and dependencies of what level of
practice you're at as to whether or not effort is necessary. If
you're using an alambana (Alambana), then effort is required.
This is because section 2 of the SS relate to Shaktopaya, which requires
effort. The SS also speaks of Shambhavopaya, which is a means that utilizes
alert passivity or choiceless Awareness.
See SS commentary by Jaideva Singh Forword about Section III (xlviii)
He also says that the three upayas are not watertight compartments. the three
processes - Anavopaya, Shaktopaya (about which the quoted verse is, and which
requires effort) and Shambhavopaya, lead into each other.
The translation is from Mark Dyczkowski
prayatna
m. persevering effort , continued exertion or endeavour , exertion
bestowed on (loc. or comp.) , activity , action , act Mn. MBh. c.
(instr. sg. and pl. abl. and %{-tas} ind. with special effort ,
zealously , diligently , carefully ; %{-tna} ibc. and %{-tnAt} ind.
also = hardly , scarcely) ; great care , caution Pan5cat. ; (in
phil.) active efforts (of 3 kinds , viz. engaging in any act ,
prosecuting it , and completing it) ; pl. volitions (one of the 17
qualities of the Vais3eshikas) IW. 68 ; (in gram.) effort in
uttering , mode of articulation (also %{Asya-pray-} , distinguished
into %{Abhyantara-p-} and %{bAhya-p-} , internal and external effort)
Pra1t. Pa1n2. 1-1 , 9 Sch. ; (%{A}) f. N. of a partic. S3ruti
Sam2gi1t. ; %{-cchid} mfn. frustrating a person's (gen.) efforts
Mudr. ; %{-pre7kSaNIya} mfn. hardly visible S3ak. ; %{-muktA7sana}
mfn. rising with difficulty from a seat Ragh. ; %{-vat} mfn.
assiduous , diligent , persevering Ka1m. ; %{-tnA7nanda} m. N. of wk.
sAdhaka
mf(%{ikA})n. effective , efficient , productive of (gen. or comp.) ,
accomplishing , fulfilling , completing , perfecting , finishing MBh.
Ka1v. c. ; energizing (said of the fire supposed to burn within the
heart and direct the faculty of volition) Sus3r. ; adapted to any
purpose , useful , advantageous MBh. Pur. ; effecting by magic ,
magical Pan5cat. Ra1jat. ; demonstrating , conclusive , proving
Sarvad. ; m. an assistant Ka1v. ; an efficient or skilful person ,
(esp.) an adept , magician Katha1s. ; a worshipper Ma1lati1m. ; (%
{akA}) f. N. of Durga1 L. ; (%{ikA}) f. very deep or profound sleep
(= %{su-Supti}) L. ; a skilful or efficient woman MW. ; n. (prob.) = %
{sAdhana} , proof , argument Kap.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Practicing SSRS's Sahaj Samadi versus TM/TMSP
On 01/26/2011 02:05 AM, turquoiseb wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaigLEnglish5@... wrote: On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 9:30 PM, Peterdrpetersutphen@ wrote: No effort on this path is every wasted -- Krishna, *Bhagavad Gita* No effort is wasted because no effort is used! -MMY commentary. There are times when reading FFL is like reading a forum on which most people's education stopped at the sixth grade. This is one of those times. Either that or fans of beating dead horses. And times? Most of it nowadays is that.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Practicing SSRS's Sahaj Samadi versus TM/TMSP
On Jan 26, 2011, at 2:10 PM, blusc0ut wrote: This is because section 2 of the SS relate to Shaktopaya, which requires effort. The SS also speaks of Shambhavopaya, which is a means that utilizes alert passivity or choiceless Awareness. See SS commentary by Jaideva Singh Forword about Section III (xlviii) He also says that the three upayas are not watertight compartments. the three processes - Anavopaya, Shaktopaya (about which the quoted verse is, and which requires effort) and Shambhavopaya, lead into each other. Yes, a practice like TM would start out at the level of Individual Means (anavopaya), which of the three sections of the SS, it is the last. Some of the sutras appear at different levels, which simply means certain practices can be practiced at differing levels of consciousness. According to Ksemaraja, once one masters the anavopaya, it culminates in shaktopaya, then one is able to practice at the level of shaktopaya practice(s). Nonetheless, amazingly, all three function interdependently to some extent. Ksemaraja does a great job of explaining the transition of mantra from anavopaya to shaktopaya and the mechanics of enlightenment. He even describes that turiya, a la TM, as experienced in the beginning stages at the transitory gaps Marshy spoke so much of. This begins the spreading of the oil into the cloth.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Practicing SSRS's Sahaj Samadi versus TM/TMSP
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, whynotnow7 whynotnow7@... wrote: It is a different kind of meditation Vaj. There is never an attempt to discern the object clearly with TM. The focus in TM, if you can call it that, is on the movement of the widening of the container of consciousness, not on any object within it. The dynamic of consciousness expansion is the focus, if you can call it that, in the front of the mind. Because consciousness is always moving, there is no object to discern. The mechanics are quite different from what you are describing, Vaj. During the practice of TM, The mantra is appreciated over time, at random intervals of attention, shedding its own soft light on whatever state of consciousness we find ourselves in, and on whatever random thoughts may be associated with that. That flow of attention from the mantra to thoughts or no thoughts, and back, is not to be appreciated or judged, but just easily experienced. Less structured. More holistic, outside of logic, unless we want to include discrimination between this and that without judgment, as logic. You are just describing a different form of meditation.:-) You are talking to contemporay Buddhists who haven't got a clue. :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Practicing SSRS's Sahaj Samadi versus TM/TMSP
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, whynotnow7 whynotnow7@... wrote: Right on! :-) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote: On Jan 26, 2011, at 10:08 AM, sparaig wrote: Effort achieves the goal. - Shiva Sutra Goal? We don't need no stinkin' goal. Buddha Berra. The goal refers to jivanmukti, or liberation in this very life. * * * Liberation in this very life is not really a goal to be achieved with effort as it is conventionally understood; liberation is if anything more of an a priori understanding to be surrendered into. The only effort involved, is in the *removal* or *cessation* of effort -- is in the relinquishment of one's ingrained and separatist resistance to the utter perfection of what IS, now, always has been, and ever shall be.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Practicing SSRS's Sahaj Samadi versus TM/TMSP
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote: On Jan 26, 2011, at 11:33 AM, sparaig wrote: BTW, how do you know what I mean by mantra in the first place? The assumption I was making was that you were referring to the practice of TM. Are you sitting in my head, evaluating my thinking process, judging how refined or not refined it has become? I sometimes get the impression that for you, mantra is this sacred mental phonetic thing that is always well-defined or at least hemi-semi-demi-well-defined. Where do you draw the line between thinking the mantra, thinking some other thought, or simply being? I often find that the distinction between mantra and other thoughts becomes less and less obvious. Likewise, as with making a distinction between thinking and not thinking, it easily becomes irrelevant. Again, it seems to me that you have a need to categorize everything into nice, neat categories. This may be the source of your frustration with TM, you know. I really never had much or any frustration with TM. I simply went to another teacher and learned the full chain of my TM mantra, her dhyana-vidhi (visualizations) and how to use her yantra and do the necessary yagyas. So rather than frustration, I felt fulfillment, as I reached a point where I did not have any more questions. It actually wasn't I who categorized mantra-shastra, it was the sages who developed mantric science or mantra-vidya. Every fluctuation or variation of mantra practice has already been examined and their good points vs. bad points evaluated and passed down, from realizer to realizer. Now whether or not you think that is important or not is up to you. Anyone's mileage may vary. ... Speechless. * * * Well said.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Practicing SSRS's Sahaj Samadi versus TM/TMSP
The goal refers to jivanmukti, or liberation in this very life. RoryGoff: * * * Liberation in this very life is not really a goal to be achieved with effort as it is conventionally understood; liberation is if anything more of an a priori understanding to be surrendered into. The only effort involved, is in the *removal* or *cessation* of effort -- is in the relinquishment of one's ingrained and separatist resistance to the utter perfection of what IS, now, always has been, and ever shall be. Yoga is the *isolation* of the Purusha from the prakriti. This cannot be accomplished with goal-driven effort, for the simple reason that you are going to get only as much enlightenment as you are going to get. No amount of effort is going to get rid of your past samskaras. The only way to do that is through tapas and many lives to burn up your accumulated karma and at the same time to accrue no new karma. But 'liberation' would not be a step-wise process, as the historical Buddha found out after five years of striving. It is only when he sat down under Bodhi Tree and accepted conditioning as it is, what is, that he had his great realization. It's an all or nothing event - but it is not achieved by striving.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Practicing SSRS's Sahaj Samadi versus TM/TMSP
Vaj wrote: The goal refers to jivanmukti, or liberation in this very life. RoryGoff wrote: * * * Liberation in this very life is not really a goal to be achieved with effort as it is conventionally understood; liberation is if anything more of an a priori understanding to be surrendered into. The only effort involved, is in the *removal* or *cessation* of effort -- is in the relinquishment of one's ingrained and separatist resistance to the utter perfection of what IS, now, always has been, and ever shall be. WillyTex willytex@... wrote: Yoga is the *isolation* of the Purusha from the prakriti. * * * Yoga is Union; this *begins* with the isolation of the Purusha from the Prakriti, and ends in the paradoxical realization that the two are not different: Absolute and relarive, stillness and activity, nirvana and samskara -- all the same, all the divine Alchemical Marriage of Us. This cannot be accomplished with goal-driven effort, for the simple reason that you are going to get only as much enlightenment as you are going to get. No amount of effort is going to get rid of your past samskaras. The only way to do that is through tapas and many lives to burn up your accumulated karma and at the same time to accrue no new karma. But 'liberation' would not be a step-wise process, as the historical Buddha found out after five years of striving. It is only when he sat down under Bodhi Tree and accepted conditioning as it is, what is, that he had his great realization. It's an all or nothing event - but it is not achieved by striving.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Practicing SSRS's Sahaj Samadi versus TM/TMSP
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, RoryGoff rorygoff@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, whynotnow7 whynotnow7@ wrote: Right on! :-) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote: On Jan 26, 2011, at 10:08 AM, sparaig wrote: Effort achieves the goal. - Shiva Sutra Goal? We don't need no stinkin' goal. Buddha Berra. The goal refers to jivanmukti, or liberation in this very life. * * * Liberation in this very life is not really a goal to be achieved with effort as it is conventionally understood; liberation is if anything more of an a priori understanding to be surrendered into. The only effort involved, is in the *removal* or *cessation* of effort -- is in the relinquishment of one's ingrained and separatist resistance to the utter perfection of what IS, now, always has been, and ever shall be. Agreed - But IMHO great effort is needed to realize the futility of the goal, to be effortless and utterly relaxed. Otherwise we could end being a Neo-Advaitin who philosophize that nothing needs to be done.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Practicing SSRS's Sahaj Samadi versus TM/TMSP
Effort achieves the goal. - Shiva Sutra sparaig: Goal? We don't need no stinkin' goal. Buddha Berra. if there is no next goal, then there is no sense of the Self and non-Self envying each other. The envy is only for the sake of fulfillment, for the sake of progress, for the sake of more and more... 'The Concise Yoga Vasistha' By Swami Venkatesananda and Christopher Chapple State University of New York Press, 1984 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/257451
[FairfieldLife] Re: Practicing SSRS's Sahaj Samadi versus TM/TMSP
precisely, Ravi!..; otherwise, Neo-Advaitin nonsense. http://www.fantasygallery.net/wolf/art_4_fdruid.html --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Yogi raviyogi@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, RoryGoff rorygoff@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, whynotnow7 whynotnow7@ wrote: Right on! :-) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote: On Jan 26, 2011, at 10:08 AM, sparaig wrote: Effort achieves the goal. - Shiva Sutra Goal? We don't need no stinkin' goal. Buddha Berra. The goal refers to jivanmukti, or liberation in this very life. * * * Liberation in this very life is not really a goal to be achieved with effort as it is conventionally understood; liberation is if anything more of an a priori understanding to be surrendered into. The only effort involved, is in the *removal* or *cessation* of effort -- is in the relinquishment of one's ingrained and separatist resistance to the utter perfection of what IS, now, always has been, and ever shall be. Agreed - But IMHO great effort is needed to realize the futility of the goal, to be effortless and utterly relaxed. Otherwise we could end being a Neo-Advaitin who philosophize that nothing needs to be done.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Practicing SSRS's Sahaj Samadi versus TM/TMSP
Yoga is the *isolation* of the Purusha from the prakriti. RoryGoff: * * * Yoga is Union; this *begins* with the isolation of the Purusha from the Prakriti, and ends in the paradoxical realization that the two are not different: Absolute and relarive, stillness and activity, nirvana and samskara -- all the same, all the divine Alchemical Marriage of Us. You cannot have a union of Purusha and prakriti. According to MMY, the Purusha is totally separate from the prakriti. When the prakriti overshadows the Purusha, we identify with the prakriti and not with the Purusha. That's why Patanjali defined Yoga as *isolation*, 'kaivalya', the cessation of the mind-stuff. There is no mind-stuff in the Purusha - it's totally devoid of conditioning. Yoga is the cessation of the mental turnings of the mind. When thought ceases, the Transcendental Absolute stands by itself, refers to Itself, as a witness to the world. The mental impressions are held together by cause and effect, and they disappear with the total disappearance of these four. Kaivalya Pada: Sutra 11-12. This cannot be accomplished with goal-driven effort, for the simple reason that you are going to get only as much enlightenment as you are going to get. No amount of effort is going to get rid of your past samskaras. The only way to do that is through tapas and many lives to burn up your accumulated karma and at the same time to accrue no new karma. But 'liberation' would not be a step-wise process, as the historical Buddha found out after five years of striving. It is only when he sat down under Bodhi Tree and accepted conditioning as it is, what is, that he had his great realization. It's an all or nothing event - but it is not achieved by striving.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Practicing SSRS's Sahaj Samadi versus TM/TMSP
Rory, you're a Neo-Advaitin flip-flopper. There are 4 choices, if goal is placed along with the model (goal goes along with effort, sometimes at least) a. involves a goal with effort b. doesn't need a goal and is effortless c. somehow involves both a non-goal and a goal; along with effort and non-effort. d. involves effort in terms of practice, (a minimal amount, agreed); but without a goal. ... Your ans uses the word practice. That involves effort (usually), in the real world, at least taking the time to medidate on a regular basis. ... No practice exceptions are rare. Of course, one can practice without a goal, but some effort goes along with practice. http://www.fantasygallery.net/stone/art_5_Lavendar-Fairy-and-Dragon.html --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, RoryGoff rorygoff@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Yogi raviyogi@ wrote: Agreed - But IMHO great effort is needed to realize the futility of the goal, to be effortless and utterly relaxed. Otherwise we could end being a Neo-Advaitin who philosophize that nothing needs to be done. * * * Yes, although I would perhaps say great *attention* or *clarity* or *devotion* or *practice* rather than great effort, as the word *effort* is so easily misconstrued into an egoic striving, which actually takes us further from the goal, if that is possible... And even that hypothetical Neo-Advaitin if he has any integrity or self-awareness will realize that he has *not* actually surrendered via his merely intellectual realization, as his judgments and sufferings and demonizations will continue to plague him, if he has not completed the Great Work into utter resistance-free effortlessness :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Practicing SSRS's Sahaj Samadi versus TM/TMSP
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, RoryGoff rorygoff@... wrote: * * * Liberation in this very life is not really a goal to be achieved with effort as it is conventionally understood; liberation is if anything more of an a priori understanding to be surrendered into. The only effort involved, is in the *removal* or *cessation* of effort -- is in the relinquishment of one's ingrained and separatist resistance to the utter perfection of what IS, now, always has been, and ever shall be. Sounds like poetic nonsense to me, some of these Yogis take years and years to achieve Nirvikalpa Samadhi, by practicing Yama, Niyama, asana, pranayama, pratyahara, Dharana, Dhyana and samprajnata Samadhi finally leading to asamprajnata Samadhi. It takes Many many years, (lifetimes even) MMY said as much at Fuiggi Fonte, Italy, You could meditate a million years and not reach unless you come to these courses. MMY Don't be fooled by a little mantra meditation here and there! The Guru Dev spent years and years in a cave for Christ's sake!!
[FairfieldLife] Re: Practicing SSRS's Sahaj Samadi versus TM/TMSP
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, RoryGoff rorygoff@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Yogi raviyogi@ wrote: Agreed - But IMHO great effort is needed to realize the futility of the goal, to be effortless and utterly relaxed. Otherwise we could end being a Neo-Advaitin who philosophize that nothing needs to be done. * * * Yes, although I would perhaps say great *attention* or *clarity* or *devotion* or *practice* rather than great effort, as the word *effort* is so easily misconstrued into an egoic striving, which actually takes us further from the goal, if that is possible... And even that hypothetical Neo-Advaitin if he has any integrity or self-awareness will realize that he has *not* actually surrendered via his merely intellectual realization, as his judgments and sufferings and demonizations will continue to plague him, if he has not completed the Great Work into utter resistance-free effortlessness :-) Wrong again; you use your own *WILL* (power) to conform to God's *WILL*, hence you are in harmony with the laws of nature. Even in TM effort is required to continue to meditate and go to the domes etc. only during the practice itself is effort not really required. Effort is a GOOD thing...not a BAD thing!
[FairfieldLife] Re: Practicing SSRS's Sahaj Samadi versus TM/TMSP
Dear yifuxero, Thanks for your kind comments. But I can't say Rory is a neo advaitin flip-flopper. I liked how he stated it and I think I understand his predicament to put it into words. For me the following analogy helped I was born carrying a piece of pebble, as I got older this pebble began growing. I suffered a great deal because of it, I got more miserable as it kept getting bigger and heavier. I had no idea I was carrying it, because of my Guru's grace and my efforts I was able to drop it and be free. So it's ok IMHO to call it effort, grace, devotion, practice. Eventhough the rock was imaginary it was real and frightening to me. So I would disagree if someone says thete's nothing to be done or it's all imaginary illusory. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, yifuxero yifuxero@... wrote: Rory, you're a Neo-Advaitin flip-flopper. There are 4 choices, if goal is placed along with the model (goal goes along with effort, sometimes at least) a. involves a goal with effort b. doesn't need a goal and is effortless c. somehow involves both a non-goal and a goal; along with effort and non-effort. d. involves effort in terms of practice, (a minimal amount, agreed); but without a goal. ... Your ans uses the word practice. That involves effort (usually), in the real world, at least taking the time to medidate on a regular basis. ... No practice exceptions are rare. Of course, one can practice without a goal, but some effort goes along with practice. http://www.fantasygallery.net/stone/art_5_Lavendar-Fairy-and-Dragon.html --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, RoryGoff rorygoff@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Yogi raviyogi@ wrote: Agreed - But IMHO great effort is needed to realize the futility of the goal, to be effortless and utterly relaxed. Otherwise we could end being a Neo-Advaitin who philosophize that nothing needs to be done. * * * Yes, although I would perhaps say great *attention* or *clarity* or *devotion* or *practice* rather than great effort, as the word *effort* is so easily misconstrued into an egoic striving, which actually takes us further from the goal, if that is possible... And even that hypothetical Neo-Advaitin if he has any integrity or self-awareness will realize that he has *not* actually surrendered via his merely intellectual realization, as his judgments and sufferings and demonizations will continue to plague him, if he has not completed the Great Work into utter resistance-free effortlessness :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Practicing SSRS's Sahaj Samadi versus TM/TMSP
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, RoryGoff rorygoff@ wrote: * * * Yes, although I would perhaps say great *attention* or *clarity* or *devotion* or *practice* rather than great effort, as the word *effort* is so easily misconstrued into an egoic striving, which actually takes us further from the goal, if that is possible... And even that hypothetical Neo-Advaitin if he has any integrity or self-awareness will realize that he has *not* actually surrendered via his merely intellectual realization, as his judgments and sufferings and demonizations will continue to plague him, if he has not completed the Great Work into utter resistance-free effortlessness :-) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmkxL0z0D60 Jai Maharishi. All glory to Guru Dev ! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGLLDEYFAzs
[FairfieldLife] Re: Practicing SSRS's Sahaj Samadi versus TM/TMSP
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, WillyTex willytex@... wrote: Yoga is the *isolation* of the Purusha from the prakriti. RoryGoff: * * * Yoga is Union; this *begins* with the isolation of the Purusha from the Prakriti, and ends in the paradoxical realization that the two are not different: Absolute and relarive, stillness and activity, nirvana and samskara -- all the same, all the divine Alchemical Marriage of Us. WillyTex willytex@... wrote: You cannot have a union of Purusha and prakriti. According to MMY, the Purusha is totally separate from the prakriti. When the prakriti overshadows the Purusha, we identify with the prakriti and not with the Purusha. * * * Absolutely correct; that is the Unity of Ignorance, when the Witness (Purusha) is lost in the World (Prakriti). And when we realize the Purusha is utterly separate from Prakriti, then the Witness stands alone, witnessing the world, as you have quoted below. That would appear to be more or less equivalent to MMY's CC. There is at that point a dynamic tension and even opposition between the Witness and the World, between Purusha and Prakriti, that begs to be resolved, and is indeed resolved when we surrender into the paradoxical Understanding that the Witness and the World are two sides of the same coin, and in reality the coin has no sides at all -- is in fact nondual. That's why Patanjali defined Yoga as *isolation*, 'kaivalya', the cessation of the mind-stuff. There is no mind-stuff in the Purusha - it's totally devoid of conditioning. Yoga is the cessation of the mental turnings of the mind. When thought ceases, the Transcendental Absolute stands by itself, refers to Itself, as a witness to the world. The mental impressions are held together by cause and effect, and they disappear with the total disappearance of these four. Kaivalya Pada: Sutra 11-12.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Practicing SSRS's Sahaj Samadi versus TM/TMSP
Argue for your limitations, and they're yours --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wgm4u wgm4u@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, RoryGoff rorygoff@ wrote: * * * Liberation in this very life is not really a goal to be achieved with effort as it is conventionally understood; liberation is if anything more of an a priori understanding to be surrendered into. The only effort involved, is in the *removal* or *cessation* of effort -- is in the relinquishment of one's ingrained and separatist resistance to the utter perfection of what IS, now, always has been, and ever shall be. Sounds like poetic nonsense to me, some of these Yogis take years and years to achieve Nirvikalpa Samadhi, by practicing Yama, Niyama, asana, pranayama, pratyahara, Dharana, Dhyana and samprajnata Samadhi finally leading to asamprajnata Samadhi. It takes Many many years, (lifetimes even) MMY said as much at Fuiggi Fonte, Italy, You could meditate a million years and not reach unless you come to these courses. MMY Don't be fooled by a little mantra meditation here and there! The Guru Dev spent years and years in a cave for Christ's sake!!
[FairfieldLife] Re: Practicing SSRS's Sahaj Samadi versus TM/TMSP
So are yours!...indeed; likewise, with everyone, even Ramana Maharshi's. The first perfect person (relatively speaking) stand up and identify yourself(didn't think so). everybody seems to be work in progress, unfinished business; with some retrogressing. http://www.fantasygallery.net/beauvais/art_8_MoonlightRides.html --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, RoryGoff rorygoff@... wrote: Argue for your limitations, and they're yours --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wgm4u wgm4u@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, RoryGoff rorygoff@ wrote: * * * Liberation in this very life is not really a goal to be achieved with effort as it is conventionally understood; liberation is if anything more of an a priori understanding to be surrendered into. The only effort involved, is in the *removal* or *cessation* of effort -- is in the relinquishment of one's ingrained and separatist resistance to the utter perfection of what IS, now, always has been, and ever shall be. Sounds like poetic nonsense to me, some of these Yogis take years and years to achieve Nirvikalpa Samadhi, by practicing Yama, Niyama, asana, pranayama, pratyahara, Dharana, Dhyana and samprajnata Samadhi finally leading to asamprajnata Samadhi. It takes Many many years, (lifetimes even) MMY said as much at Fuiggi Fonte, Italy, You could meditate a million years and not reach unless you come to these courses. MMY Don't be fooled by a little mantra meditation here and there! The Guru Dev spent years and years in a cave for Christ's sake!!
[FairfieldLife] Re: Practicing SSRS's Sahaj Samadi versus TM/TMSP
Its an odd thing though. You can always look back after the fact and declare, Oh, wasn't that obvious! or I have always been that :-), and at the same time, while we are wanting to awaken, we have to do *something*, whether in the mind or the body, or both, to remain focused on the process, and learn primarily what *doesn't* work. :-) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, RoryGoff rorygoff@... wrote: Argue for your limitations, and they're yours --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wgm4u wgm4u@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, RoryGoff rorygoff@ wrote: * * * Liberation in this very life is not really a goal to be achieved with effort as it is conventionally understood; liberation is if anything more of an a priori understanding to be surrendered into. The only effort involved, is in the *removal* or *cessation* of effort -- is in the relinquishment of one's ingrained and separatist resistance to the utter perfection of what IS, now, always has been, and ever shall be. Sounds like poetic nonsense to me, some of these Yogis take years and years to achieve Nirvikalpa Samadhi, by practicing Yama, Niyama, asana, pranayama, pratyahara, Dharana, Dhyana and samprajnata Samadhi finally leading to asamprajnata Samadhi. It takes Many many years, (lifetimes even) MMY said as much at Fuiggi Fonte, Italy, You could meditate a million years and not reach unless you come to these courses. MMY Don't be fooled by a little mantra meditation here and there! The Guru Dev spent years and years in a cave for Christ's sake!!
[FairfieldLife] Re: Practicing SSRS's Sahaj Samadi versus TM/TMSP
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, whynotnow7 whynotnow7@... wrote: Its an odd thing though. You can always look back after the fact and declare, Oh, wasn't that obvious! or I have always been that :-), and at the same time, while we are wanting to awaken, we have to do *something*, whether in the mind or the body, or both, to remain focused on the process, and learn primarily what *doesn't* work. :-) * * * Absolutely right! And the path often involves extreme *intensity* towards its end, at least in my particular recollections. And I am well aware that what I am speaking of here will make next to no sense to one who believes himself to be fundamentally separate from Us, or believes himself not to be Awake. How can the nondual make sense to the dual, or the paradox make sense to the intellect? Nonetheless, we do what we do, for so it is written: thus shall the Self lovingly attend to the Self, tickling our Self again and again until we laugh in delight, remembering anew there is only ever Us here :-) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, RoryGoff rorygoff@ wrote: Argue for your limitations, and they're yours --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wgm4u wgm4u@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, RoryGoff rorygoff@ wrote: * * * Liberation in this very life is not really a goal to be achieved with effort as it is conventionally understood; liberation is if anything more of an a priori understanding to be surrendered into. The only effort involved, is in the *removal* or *cessation* of effort -- is in the relinquishment of one's ingrained and separatist resistance to the utter perfection of what IS, now, always has been, and ever shall be. Sounds like poetic nonsense to me, some of these Yogis take years and years to achieve Nirvikalpa Samadhi, by practicing Yama, Niyama, asana, pranayama, pratyahara, Dharana, Dhyana and samprajnata Samadhi finally leading to asamprajnata Samadhi. It takes Many many years, (lifetimes even) MMY said as much at Fuiggi Fonte, Italy, You could meditate a million years and not reach unless you come to these courses. MMY Don't be fooled by a little mantra meditation here and there! The Guru Dev spent years and years in a cave for Christ's sake!!
[FairfieldLife] Re: Practicing SSRS's Sahaj Samadi versus TM/TMSP
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wgm4u wgm4u@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, RoryGoff rorygoff@ wrote: * * * Liberation in this very life is not really a goal to be achieved with effort as it is conventionally understood; liberation is if anything more of an a priori understanding to be surrendered into. The only effort involved, is in the *removal* or *cessation* of effort -- is in the relinquishment of one's ingrained and separatist resistance to the utter perfection of what IS, now, always has been, and ever shall be. Sounds like poetic nonsense to me, some of these Yogis take years and years to achieve Nirvikalpa Samadhi, by practicing Yama, Niyama, asana, pranayama, pratyahara, Dharana, Dhyana and samprajnata Samadhi finally leading to asamprajnata Samadhi. It takes Many many years, (lifetimes even) MMY said as much at Fuiggi Fonte, Italy, You could meditate a million years and not reach unless you come to these courses. MMY Don't be fooled by a little mantra meditation here and there! The Guru Dev spent years and years in a cave for Christ's sake!! Yet there are numerous examples of spontaneous awakening in the Indian scriptures. Even I struggled with this fact that how could it be possible when there are bigger names with well documented tapas and sadhana. I couldn't attribute this to effort alone which is very inferior in comparison to many but to grace, samskaras and effort in the previous lifetime(s)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Practicing SSRS's Sahaj Samadi versus TM/TMSP
I'm not sure I would use YOU description either. But, no experience is right or wrong so... --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, whynotnow7 whynotnow7@... wrote: It is a different kind of meditation Vaj. There is never an attempt to discern the object clearly with TM. The focus in TM, if you can call it that, is on the movement of the widening of the container of consciousness, not on any object within it. The dynamic of consciousness expansion is the focus, if you can call it that, in the front of the mind. Because consciousness is always moving, there is no object to discern. The mechanics are quite different from what you are describing, Vaj. During the practice of TM, The mantra is appreciated over time, at random intervals of attention, shedding its own soft light on whatever state of consciousness we find ourselves in, and on whatever random thoughts may be associated with that. That flow of attention from the mantra to thoughts or no thoughts, and back, is not to be appreciated or judged, but just easily experienced. Less structured. More holistic, outside of logic, unless we want to include discrimination between this and that without judgment, as logic. You are just describing a different form of meditation.:-) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote: On Jan 26, 2011, at 11:23 AM, sparaig wrote: How do you (or I) know that I thought the mantra 20 minutes ago without noticing? I assume that is how I slipped into the practice, but since I didn't notice starting to think the mantra, perhaps I didn't. Sheesh. You're hung up on what *I* need or don't need. Have you noticed? Well you're either practicing meditation with a mantra or you're not. You may just not have been mindful during your practice or you were not able to discern your object clearly for whatever reason.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Practicing SSRS's Sahaj Samadi versus TM/TMSP
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wgm4u wgm4u@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, RoryGoff rorygoff@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Yogi raviyogi@ wrote: Agreed - But IMHO great effort is needed to realize the futility of the goal, to be effortless and utterly relaxed. Otherwise we could end being a Neo-Advaitin who philosophize that nothing needs to be done. * * * Yes, although I would perhaps say great *attention* or *clarity* or *devotion* or *practice* rather than great effort, as the word *effort* is so easily misconstrued into an egoic striving, which actually takes us further from the goal, if that is possible... And even that hypothetical Neo-Advaitin if he has any integrity or self-awareness will realize that he has *not* actually surrendered via his merely intellectual realization, as his judgments and sufferings and demonizations will continue to plague him, if he has not completed the Great Work into utter resistance-free effortlessness :-) Wrong again; you use your own *WILL* (power) to conform to God's *WILL*, hence you are in harmony with the laws of nature. Even in TM effort is required to continue to meditate and go to the domes etc. only during the practice itself is effort not really required. Effort is a GOOD thing...not a BAD thing! whose will and/or effort? Of course, as long as one is bound by illusions, might as well use the terminlogy developed to describe them... L
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Practicing SSRS's Sahaj Samadi versus TM/TMSP
On Jan 26, 2011, at 4:11 PM, Ravi Yogi wrote: Agreed - But IMHO great effort is needed to realize the futility of the goal, to be effortless and utterly relaxed. Otherwise we could end being a Neo-Advaitin who philosophize that nothing needs to be done. It might be helpful to understand that in the SS and commentaries, we're talking about the transition between the first and the second thirds of the three major awakenings (from the perspective of the unawakened). That's only 33% of the the SS View. It's not 'all about effort'. But what the Kashmirian masters of awakening so masterfully distinguish is not merely how we rise: they tell us how to recognize someone who may have attained a wonderful temporary experience, but is someone who rises and falls (and rises and falls). Hell, they even do it on email lists nowadays! The actual consumption into the Shakti Path level of realization occurs after prayatnah sādhakah, but also includes. It's popular in neoadvaita to state that the enlightened state is inscrutable and that's partially true for a rare number of beings IMO. But gawd what a great out. What such a claimant forgets, it's not the rising that is so recognizable, but the rising and falling of yogis. After all, we've all fallen at least once, no?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Practicing SSRS's Sahaj Samadi versus TM/TMSP
Thanks for your comments Vaj. I don't think I understood all your points. From the the first 3 paragraphs I understood you were hinting at stages in awakening and I do agree. You also indicate some who have temporary experiences and some who rise andf all and that makes sense as well. From my perspective it has been a rise and coast. The coast phase is much longer allowing the body and mind to integrate the energies that were received during the rise. The rise phases much shorter and intense with overwhelming energy and much cleansing. After all, we've all fallen at least once, no? - not sure if you were referring to my behavior here on the list? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@... wrote: On Jan 26, 2011, at 4:11 PM, Ravi Yogi wrote: Agreed - But IMHO great effort is needed to realize the futility of the goal, to be effortless and utterly relaxed. Otherwise we could end being a Neo-Advaitin who philosophize that nothing needs to be done. It might be helpful to understand that in the SS and commentaries, we're talking about the transition between the first and the second thirds of the three major awakenings (from the perspective of the unawakened). That's only 33% of the the SS View. It's not 'all about effort'. But what the Kashmirian masters of awakening so masterfully distinguish is not merely how we rise: they tell us how to recognize someone who may have attained a wonderful temporary experience, but is someone who rises and falls (and rises and falls). Hell, they even do it on email lists nowadays! The actual consumption into the Shakti Path level of realization occurs after prayatnah sÄdhakah, but also includes. It's popular in neoadvaita to state that the enlightened state is inscrutable and that's partially true for a rare number of beings IMO. But gawd what a great out. What such a claimant forgets, it's not the rising that is so recognizable, but the rising and falling of yogis. After all, we've all fallen at least once, no?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Practicing SSRS's Sahaj Samadi versus TM/TMSP
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Joe geezerfreak@... wrote: You're a good man Buck/Doug. Buck is Radio FreeTM http://www.google.de/imgres?imgurl=http://trcs.wikispaces.com/file/view\ /Che_Guevara_Revolution.jpg/40959489/Che_Guevara_Revolution.jpgimgrefur\ l=http://www.heyche.blogspot.com/usg=__aAX4tn7tN4GpJdF9bNdXYyCbO3c=h=5\ 00w=357sz=237hl=enstart=2sig2=RE-GENUV8P_TDmUReDGL6gzoom=1um=1it\ bs=1tbnid=zVA830i-FJmsqM:tbnh=130tbnw=93prev=/images%3Fq%3Dche%26um%\ 3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26tbs%3Disch:1ei=uJ0-Tc_ZA9CEswaKmPjpBA --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: Somebody turned up here on FFL who was after an 'advanced technique' but could not afford the official TM version? The Ammachi satsang in FF is going to having a course in Amma's IAM technique. It makes a great advanced technique for TM meditators as an adjunct. Is really well taught and only $25 essentially to cover the overhead. You don't have to join no movement neither to do it. One-day deal. Best Regards, -Buck --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter drpetersutphen@ wrote: --- On Mon, 1/24/11, nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: From: nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Practicing SSRS's Sahaj Samadi versus TM/TMSP To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, January 24, 2011, 6:07 PM --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter drpetersutphen@ wrote: All these words sounds all nice and dapper but could be sweet in the beginning and poisenous in the end. I don't think so Nabs. It's all transcending with bija mantras. It's all good. I know you live in the hope that it is all good, which is a good thing. Let's hope you are not mistaken :-) I'd just like to add a thing to this. Do you remember Maharishi telling the story of the CP that was bitten by a scorpion outside His Ashram and barely survived ? He went to Maharishi and explained how his experiences had great improoved afterwards. Maharishi commented something like; even poison can give enlightenment. But added; don't try this on your own - then He laughed for minutes :-) I have to go with my experiences, Nabs. Maharishi is a blazing ball of Brahman. He produced another blazing ball of Brahman, SSRS. Just like Guru Dev produced MMY. No problems. My dharma, not necessarily yours. To subscribe, send a message to: fairfieldlife-subscr...@yahoogroups.com Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!'Yahoo! Groups Links fairfieldlife-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com
[FairfieldLife] Re: Practicing SSRS's Sahaj Samadi versus TM/TMSP
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter drpetersutphen@... wrote: --- On Mon, 1/24/11, nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: From: nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Practicing SSRS's Sahaj Samadi versus TM/TMSP To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, January 24, 2011, 6:07 PM --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter drpetersutphen@ wrote: All these words sounds all nice and dapper but could be sweet in the beginning and poisenous in the end. I don't think so Nabs. It's all transcending with bija mantras. It's all good. I know you live in the hope that it is all good, which is a good thing. Let's hope you are not mistaken :-) I'd just like to add a thing to this. Do you remember Maharishi telling the story of the CP that was bitten by a scorpion outside His Ashram and barely survived ? He went to Maharishi and explained how his experiences had great improoved afterwards. Maharishi commented something like; even poison can give enlightenment. But added; don't try this on your own - then He laughed for minutes :-) I have to go with my experiences, Nabs. Maharishi is a blazing ball of Brahman. He produced another blazing ball of Brahman, SSRS. Just like Guru Dev produced MMY. No problems. My dharma, not necessarily yours. I was not saying you or any of Ravi's disciples have a problem. That's why I added His quote: Even poison can give enlightenment (Quote from memory)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Practicing SSRS's Sahaj Samadi versus TM/TMSP
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Joe geezerfreak@... wrote: You're a good man Buck/Doug. You're an nitwit Buck/Doug.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Practicing SSRS's Sahaj Samadi versus TM/TMSP
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter drpetersutphen@... wrote: --- On Mon, 1/24/11, nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: From: nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Practicing SSRS's Sahaj Samadi versus TM/TMSP To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, January 24, 2011, 6:07 PM --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter drpetersutphen@ wrote: All these words sounds all nice and dapper but could be sweet in the beginning and poisenous in the end. I don't think so Nabs. It's all transcending with bija mantras. It's all good. I know you live in the hope that it is all good, which is a good thing. Let's hope you are not mistaken :-) I'd just like to add a thing to this. Do you remember Maharishi telling the story of the CP that was bitten by a scorpion outside His Ashram and barely survived ? He went to Maharishi and explained how his experiences had great improoved afterwards. Maharishi commented something like; even poison can give enlightenment. But added; don't try this on your own - then He laughed for minutes :-) I have to go with my experiences, Nabs. Maharishi is a blazing ball of Brahman. He produced another blazing ball of Brahman, SSRS. Just like Guru Dev produced MMY. No problems. My dharma, not necessarily yours. It's an interesting thing though. MMY wanted to find a successor. Why chose Tony Abu-Nader instead of SSRS? Lawson
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Practicing SSRS's Sahaj Samadi versus TM/TMSP
On Tue, Jan 25, 2011 at 6:31 AM, sparaig lengli...@cox.net wrote: It's an interesting thing though. MMY wanted to find a successor. Why chose Tony Abu-Nader instead of SSRS? Lawson This is a rhetorical question? SSRS had struck out on his own. He was already his own man, an established guru. Who was very clear what he thought about learning and practicing the siddhis. Tony had very credible credentials with his M.D. and Ph.D. And who in his right mind would ever attempt writing a tome like Tony wrote? Maharishi kept saying we need to sway them with science and Tony's just the guy. it's true that Tony's tome is less scientific than any writing on phrenology but his work is daunting and that seems to be all that matters. From what I understand, SSRS goes into silence for a week ending in Navaratri but goes out to sit silently, eyes diverted, during satsung at his ashram in Bangalore. From what I understand that silence is very sweet, very quiet but is also vibrant and lively. Take a look at this http://www.worldculturefestival.org/ and compare/contrast it to http://www.globalgoodnews.com/watch-live.htmlthis.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Practicing SSRS's Sahaj Samadi versus TM/TMSP
On Jan 25, 2011, at 1:46 PM, Tom Pall wrote: This is a rhetorical question? SSRS had struck out on his own. He was already his own man, an established guru. He discusses this in the book, as well as there being no conflict with MMY and the fact that MMY and he remained friendly, although they eventually were out of contact with one another.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Practicing SSRS's Sahaj Samadi versus TM/TMSP
Ha ha ha, kind of reminds me of dog breeding, The potent *stud* produces quality, a chip off the 'ol block. From: Peter drpetersutp...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, January 24, 2011 7:30:36 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Practicing SSRS's Sahaj Samadi versus TM/TMSP --- On Mon, 1/24/11, nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: From: nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Practicing SSRS's Sahaj Samadi versus TM/TMSP To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, January 24, 2011, 6:07 PM --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter drpetersutphen@ wrote: All these words sounds all nice and dapper but could be sweet in the beginning and poisenous in the end. I don't think so Nabs. It's all transcending with bija mantras. It's all good. I know you live in the hope that it is all good, which is a good thing. Let's hope you are not mistaken :-) I'd just like to add a thing to this. Do you remember Maharishi telling the story of the CP that was bitten by a scorpion outside His Ashram and barely survived ? He went to Maharishi and explained how his experiences had great improoved afterwards. Maharishi commented something like; even poison can give enlightenment. But added; don't try this on your own - then He laughed for minutes :-) I have to go with my experiences, Nabs. Maharishi is a blazing ball of Brahman. He produced another blazing ball of Brahman, SSRS. Just like Guru Dev produced MMY. No problems. My dharma, not necessarily yours. To subscribe, send a message to: fairfieldlife-subscr...@yahoogroups.com Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!'Yahoo! Groups Links fairfieldlife-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Practicing SSRS's Sahaj Samadi versus TM/TMSP
Indeed. --- On Tue, 1/25/11, Mike Dixon mdixon.6...@yahoo.com wrote: From: Mike Dixon mdixon.6...@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Practicing SSRS's Sahaj Samadi versus TM/TMSP To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, January 25, 2011, 3:37 PM Ha ha ha, kind of reminds me of dog breeding, The potent *stud* produces quality, a chip off the 'ol block. From: Peter drpetersutp...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, January 24, 2011 7:30:36 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Practicing SSRS's Sahaj Samadi versus TM/TMSP --- On Mon, 1/24/11, nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: From: nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Practicing SSRS's Sahaj Samadi versus TM/TMSP To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, January 24, 2011, 6:07 PM --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter drpetersutphen@ wrote: All these words sounds all nice and dapper but could be sweet in the beginning and poisenous in the end. I don't think so Nabs. It's all transcending with bija mantras. It's all good. I know you live in the hope that it is all good, which is a good thing. Let's hope you are not mistaken :-) I'd just like to add a thing to this. Do you remember Maharishi telling the story of the CP that was bitten by a scorpion outside His Ashram and barely survived ? He went to Maharishi and explained how his experiences had great improoved afterwards. Maharishi commented something like; even poison can give enlightenment. But added; don't try this on your own - then He laughed for minutes :-) I have to go with my experiences, Nabs. Maharishi is a blazing ball of Brahman. He produced another blazing ball of Brahman, SSRS. Just like Guru Dev produced MMY. No problems. My dharma, not necessarily yours. To subscribe, send a message to: fairfieldlife-subscr...@yahoogroups.com Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!'Yahoo! Groups Links fairfieldlife-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Practicing SSRS's Sahaj Samadi versus TM/TMSP
On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 9:30 PM, Peter drpetersutp...@yahoo.com wrote: --- On Mon, 1/24/11, nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: Maharishi commented something like; even poison can give enlightenment. But added; don't try this on your own - then He laughed for minutes :-) I have to go with my experiences, Nabs. Maharishi is a blazing ball of Brahman. He produced another blazing ball of Brahman, SSRS. Just like Guru Dev produced MMY. No problems. My dharma, not necessarily yours. No effort on this path is every wasted -- Krishna, *Bhagavad Gita*
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Practicing SSRS's Sahaj Samadi versus TM/TMSP
On Tue, Jan 25, 2011 at 2:37 PM, Mike Dixon mdixon.6...@yahoo.com wrote: Ha ha ha, kind of reminds me of dog breeding, The potent *stud* produces quality, a chip off the 'ol block. In light of recent books and talk about Maharishi, could we use a different example than a, uhhh, *stud*?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Practicing SSRS's Sahaj Samadi versus TM/TMSP
Sahaj is just a slight, easy shift in the practice..Probably something you are already doing.my introductory lecture was great for understanding the metaphysics of the practice. IMO: SSRS realized that we humans tend to be neurotic, and bring our neurosis into spiritual practices, so he promotes an easier more practical attitude to discourage all the fretting we tend to do. He also discourages people from becoming so intense (and self-interested) about their practice that they skip doing very important things - like taking care of their children. In the final analysis though, due to the basic flaws that all humans have, spiritual movements are more alike than they are different and successful practitioners dive for the pearls and leave the rest
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Practicing SSRS's Sahaj Samadi versus TM/TMSP
On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 9:30 AM, martyboi marty...@yahoo.com wrote: Sahaj is just a slight, easy shift in the practice..Probably something you are already doing. Really? The business with the chicken feathers, the Crisco and the goat?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Practicing SSRS's Sahaj Samadi versus TM/TMSP
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Tom Pall thomas.pall@... wrote: On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 9:30 AM, martyboi martyboi@... wrote: Sahaj is just a slight, easy shift in the practice..Probably something you are already doing. Really? The business with the chicken feathers, the Crisco and the goat? * * * All this is That; That Alone IS
[FairfieldLife] Re: Practicing SSRS's Sahaj Samadi versus TM/TMSP
Really? The business with the chicken feathers, the Crisco and the goat? oi vey! I missed that course...
[FairfieldLife] Re: Practicing SSRS's Sahaj Samadi versus TM/TMSP
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, martyboi martyboi@... wrote: Sahaj is just a slight, easy shift in the practice..Probably something you are already doing.my introductory lecture was great for understanding the metaphysics of the practice. IMO: SSRS realized that we humans tend to be neurotic, and bring our neurosis into spiritual practices, so he promotes an easier more practical attitude to discourage all the fretting we tend to do. He also discourages people from becoming so intense (and self-interested) about their practice that they skip doing very important things - like taking care of their children. All these words sounds all nice and dapper but could be sweet in the beginning and poisenous in the end.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Practicing SSRS's Sahaj Samadi versus TM/TMSP
--- On Mon, 1/24/11, nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: From: nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Practicing SSRS's Sahaj Samadi versus TM/TMSP To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, January 24, 2011, 4:48 PM --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, martyboi martyboi@... wrote: Sahaj is just a slight, easy shift in the practice..Probably something you are already doing.my introductory lecture was great for understanding the metaphysics of the practice. IMO: SSRS realized that we humans tend to be neurotic, and bring our neurosis into spiritual practices, so he promotes an easier more practical attitude to discourage all the fretting we tend to do. He also discourages people from becoming so intense (and self-interested) about their practice that they skip doing very important things - like taking care of their children. All these words sounds all nice and dapper but could be sweet in the beginning and poisenous in the end. I don't think so Nabs. It's all transcending with bija mantras. It's all good. To subscribe, send a message to: fairfieldlife-subscr...@yahoogroups.com Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!'Yahoo! Groups Links fairfieldlife-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com
[FairfieldLife] Re: Practicing SSRS's Sahaj Samadi versus TM/TMSP
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter drpetersutphen@... wrote: All these words sounds all nice and dapper but could be sweet in the beginning and poisenous in the end. I don't think so Nabs. It's all transcending with bija mantras. It's all good. I know you live in the hope that it is all good, which is a good thing. Let's hope you are not mistaken :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Practicing SSRS's Sahaj Samadi versus TM/TMSP
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter drpetersutphen@ wrote: All these words sounds all nice and dapper but could be sweet in the beginning and poisenous in the end. I don't think so Nabs. It's all transcending with bija mantras. It's all good. I know you live in the hope that it is all good, which is a good thing. Let's hope you are not mistaken :-) I'd just like to add a thing to this. Do you remember Maharishi telling the story of the CP that was bitten by a scorpion outside His Ashram and barely survived ? He went to Maharishi and explained how his experiences had great improoved afterwards. Maharishi commented something like; even poison can give enlightenment. But added; don't try this on your own - then He laughed for minutes :-)
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Practicing SSRS's Sahaj Samadi versus TM/TMSP
--- On Mon, 1/24/11, nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: From: nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Practicing SSRS's Sahaj Samadi versus TM/TMSP To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, January 24, 2011, 6:07 PM --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter drpetersutphen@ wrote: All these words sounds all nice and dapper but could be sweet in the beginning and poisenous in the end. I don't think so Nabs. It's all transcending with bija mantras. It's all good. I know you live in the hope that it is all good, which is a good thing. Let's hope you are not mistaken :-) I'd just like to add a thing to this. Do you remember Maharishi telling the story of the CP that was bitten by a scorpion outside His Ashram and barely survived ? He went to Maharishi and explained how his experiences had great improoved afterwards. Maharishi commented something like; even poison can give enlightenment. But added; don't try this on your own - then He laughed for minutes :-) I have to go with my experiences, Nabs. Maharishi is a blazing ball of Brahman. He produced another blazing ball of Brahman, SSRS. Just like Guru Dev produced MMY. No problems. My dharma, not necessarily yours. To subscribe, send a message to: fairfieldlife-subscr...@yahoogroups.com Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!'Yahoo! Groups Links fairfieldlife-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com
[FairfieldLife] Re: Practicing SSRS's Sahaj Samadi versus TM/TMSP
Somebody turned up here on FFL who was after an 'advanced technique' but could not afford the official TM version? The Ammachi satsang in FF is going to having a course in Amma's IAM technique. It makes a great advanced technique for TM meditators as an adjunct. Is really well taught and only $25 essentially to cover the overhead. You don't have to join no movement neither to do it. One-day deal. Best Regards, -Buck --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter drpetersutphen@... wrote: --- On Mon, 1/24/11, nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: From: nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Practicing SSRS's Sahaj Samadi versus TM/TMSP To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, January 24, 2011, 6:07 PM --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter drpetersutphen@ wrote: All these words sounds all nice and dapper but could be sweet in the beginning and poisenous in the end. I don't think so Nabs. It's all transcending with bija mantras. It's all good. I know you live in the hope that it is all good, which is a good thing. Let's hope you are not mistaken :-) I'd just like to add a thing to this. Do you remember Maharishi telling the story of the CP that was bitten by a scorpion outside His Ashram and barely survived ? He went to Maharishi and explained how his experiences had great improoved afterwards. Maharishi commented something like; even poison can give enlightenment. But added; don't try this on your own - then He laughed for minutes :-) I have to go with my experiences, Nabs. Maharishi is a blazing ball of Brahman. He produced another blazing ball of Brahman, SSRS. Just like Guru Dev produced MMY. No problems. My dharma, not necessarily yours. To subscribe, send a message to: fairfieldlife-subscr...@yahoogroups.com Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!'Yahoo! Groups Links fairfieldlife-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Practicing SSRS's Sahaj Samadi versus TM/TMSP
On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 9:44 PM, Buck dhamiltony...@yahoo.com wrote: Somebody turned up here on FFL who was after an 'advanced technique' but could not afford the official TM version? The Ammachi satsang in FF is going to having a course in Amma's IAM technique. It makes a great advanced technique for TM meditators as an adjunct. Is really well taught and only $25 essentially to cover the overhead. You don't have to join no movement neither to do it. One-day deal. Best Regards, -Buck Just in case I happen to run into someone who'd like to learn this, do you happen to have a URL for Amma's tour? Something going on in Austin, TX would be great. Just out of curiosity, would Amma's meditation work with someone who doesn't gush or perhaps even notice Amma's darshan?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Practicing SSRS's Sahaj Samadi versus TM/TMSP
You're a good man Buck/Doug. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@... wrote: Somebody turned up here on FFL who was after an 'advanced technique' but could not afford the official TM version? The Ammachi satsang in FF is going to having a course in Amma's IAM technique. It makes a great advanced technique for TM meditators as an adjunct. Is really well taught and only $25 essentially to cover the overhead. You don't have to join no movement neither to do it. One-day deal. Best Regards, -Buck --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter drpetersutphen@ wrote: --- On Mon, 1/24/11, nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: From: nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Practicing SSRS's Sahaj Samadi versus TM/TMSP To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, January 24, 2011, 6:07 PM --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter drpetersutphen@ wrote: All these words sounds all nice and dapper but could be sweet in the beginning and poisenous in the end. I don't think so Nabs. It's all transcending with bija mantras. It's all good. I know you live in the hope that it is all good, which is a good thing. Let's hope you are not mistaken :-) I'd just like to add a thing to this. Do you remember Maharishi telling the story of the CP that was bitten by a scorpion outside His Ashram and barely survived ? He went to Maharishi and explained how his experiences had great improoved afterwards. Maharishi commented something like; even poison can give enlightenment. But added; don't try this on your own - then He laughed for minutes :-) I have to go with my experiences, Nabs. Maharishi is a blazing ball of Brahman. He produced another blazing ball of Brahman, SSRS. Just like Guru Dev produced MMY. No problems. My dharma, not necessarily yours. To subscribe, send a message to: fairfieldlife-subscr...@yahoogroups.com Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!'Yahoo! Groups Links fairfieldlife-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com
