[FairfieldLife] Re: Realization-- from the FFL archives
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sandiego108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I stumbled across this in the vast archive of FFL messages, and thought it was worth a copy and paste (its not mine): Knowledge is different in different states of consciousness. I'm trying to get us to stop talking about devotion, free will, etc. from the waking state (the relative), and start talking about it from the Absolute side of the fence. Why? In CC the surrender of infinity to a larger infinity is real. Total bullshit.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Realization-- from the FFL archives
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, matrixmonitor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --Flaws in your interesting discourse... (by way of example): doesn't explain how an Enlightened person like A (mentioned before) can still be Enlightened and be a child molestor. It appears that some would attempt to render Paramatma [God] insignificant in order feel comfortable in their amorality and faux 'enlightenment'. The way of the group of those who believe in nirguNa [without qualities alone] spread more wickedness because these people do not accept the manifest form of Bhagavan [God] and suppose that the niraakaara [formless] cannot see or hear. So they do their mind's desires; they have no concern for what is wicked and what is sacred. ~~ Swami Brahmananda Saraswati - Guru Dev [Shri Shankaracharya UpadeshAmrita kaNa 88 of 108] http://www.paulmason.info/gurudev/upadesh.htm - In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sandiego108 sandiego108@ wrote: I stumbled across this in the vast archive of FFL messages, and thought it was worth a copy and paste (its not mine): Knowledge is different in different states of consciousness. I'm trying to get us to stop talking about devotion, free will, etc. from the waking state (the relative), and start talking about it from the Absolute side of the fence. Why? Because I've heard Maharishi say, on numerous occasions, that devotion is meaningless until CC (Self-realization) has dawned. Before that, he says, who is surrendering? We don't even know who we are, so how can we sur- render? We are unreal, so what are we giving up? What are we surrender- ing. Surrender only has meaning when something significant is to be given up, surrendered. Surrender is only meaningful from a place of strength. Only in CC do we know who we are. THEN surrender has some meaning. Before CC, all action is already being performed by the Self, but the in- dividual, unenlightened ego claims credit for everything. It claims to be surrendering, just like a prisoner in a prison might say in his de- lusion I'm here voluntarily. But no matter what he says, he is there at the control of a higher power. If he continues to insist that he has free will, those who know the reality will just smile and call him deluded. In ignorance, no individual is making any choices. They just PRETEND they are, and then they have discussions about the mechanics of making the best choice, and what will be the effects of my various choices. But it's all delusion. In CC, when we stop identifying with that ignorant individuality, and realize that we are the Self, then, for the first time, we realize that we actually DO have free will, because we are the One Self that exercises ALL the free will, we are finally The Doer. We are finally free, and only in freedom is free will possible. The prisoner in our example may decide to stay in jail, be locked in his cell to sleep at lights out, take a shower at 8am, etc. He may decide to surrender to the higher authority of the prison warden. But you and I know that he is going to do those things whether he thinks he believes that he's decided to surrender to them or not. Only, with one set of beliefs, his life will be full of pain and suffering, and with the other set of beliefs, he will flow with the reality THAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN ANYWAY. Even his choice of which prison warden has control over him is out of his hands. He doesn't choose his prison, or his warden. The system sends him where it thinks he will do best. Same with the choice of a guru. The system chooses for us, runs us around through life till we are brought to where we are meant to be. And from the outside, our actions may look like we've been exercising our own judgment, but we are in the matrix, and the program is being run by the Self (or by Nature, or God, or karma...) In CC, the decision to surrender to something even bigger can have mean- ing. In CC the surrender of infinity to a larger infinity is real. In waking state, the surrender of a finite dreamer, of a delusional exis- tence, to infinity is meaningless, is an illusion, and does not happen the way the ego would like to claim it does. The ignorant, relative ego is totally moved by the Self. It is just a wave of the Self. All thought, speech, and action is powered by the Self. 1. The resistance to That by the ego, the claim to be a separate power, is the actual content of ignorance, IS the ignorance. 2. The acceptance of That by the ego, IS the awakening, is Self- realiza- tion. The Self that we were pretending is less real than the ego, now becomes more real. It is real-ized.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Realization-- from the FFL archives
--Thanks, right on target! - In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, do.rflex [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, matrixmonitor matrixmonitor@ wrote: --Flaws in your interesting discourse... (by way of example): doesn't explain how an Enlightened person like A (mentioned before) can still be Enlightened and be a child molestor. It appears that some would attempt to render Paramatma [God] insignificant in order feel comfortable in their amorality and faux 'enlightenment'. The way of the group of those who believe in nirguNa [without qualities alone] spread more wickedness because these people do not accept the manifest form of Bhagavan [God] and suppose that the niraakaara [formless] cannot see or hear. So they do their mind's desires; they have no concern for what is wicked and what is sacred. ~~ Swami Brahmananda Saraswati - Guru Dev [Shri Shankaracharya UpadeshAmrita kaNa 88 of 108] http://www.paulmason.info/gurudev/upadesh.htm - In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sandiego108 sandiego108@ wrote: I stumbled across this in the vast archive of FFL messages, and thought it was worth a copy and paste (its not mine): Knowledge is different in different states of consciousness. I'm trying to get us to stop talking about devotion, free will, etc. from the waking state (the relative), and start talking about it from the Absolute side of the fence. Why? Because I've heard Maharishi say, on numerous occasions, that devotion is meaningless until CC (Self-realization) has dawned. Before that, he says, who is surrendering? We don't even know who we are, so how can we sur- render? We are unreal, so what are we giving up? What are we surrender- ing. Surrender only has meaning when something significant is to be given up, surrendered. Surrender is only meaningful from a place of strength. Only in CC do we know who we are. THEN surrender has some meaning. Before CC, all action is already being performed by the Self, but the in- dividual, unenlightened ego claims credit for everything. It claims to be surrendering, just like a prisoner in a prison might say in his de- lusion I'm here voluntarily. But no matter what he says, he is there at the control of a higher power. If he continues to insist that he has free will, those who know the reality will just smile and call him deluded. In ignorance, no individual is making any choices. They just PRETEND they are, and then they have discussions about the mechanics of making the best choice, and what will be the effects of my various choices. But it's all delusion. In CC, when we stop identifying with that ignorant individuality, and realize that we are the Self, then, for the first time, we realize that we actually DO have free will, because we are the One Self that exercises ALL the free will, we are finally The Doer. We are finally free, and only in freedom is free will possible. The prisoner in our example may decide to stay in jail, be locked in his cell to sleep at lights out, take a shower at 8am, etc. He may decide to surrender to the higher authority of the prison warden. But you and I know that he is going to do those things whether he thinks he believes that he's decided to surrender to them or not. Only, with one set of beliefs, his life will be full of pain and suffering, and with the other set of beliefs, he will flow with the reality THAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN ANYWAY. Even his choice of which prison warden has control over him is out of his hands. He doesn't choose his prison, or his warden. The system sends him where it thinks he will do best. Same with the choice of a guru. The system chooses for us, runs us around through life till we are brought to where we are meant to be. And from the outside, our actions may look like we've been exercising our own judgment, but we are in the matrix, and the program is being run by the Self (or by Nature, or God, or karma...) In CC, the decision to surrender to something even bigger can have mean- ing. In CC the surrender of infinity to a larger infinity is real. In waking state, the surrender of a finite dreamer, of a delusional exis- tence, to infinity is meaningless, is an illusion, and does not happen the way the ego would like to claim it does. The ignorant, relative ego is totally moved by the Self. It is just a wave of the Self. All thought, speech, and action is powered by the Self. 1. The resistance to That by the ego, the claim to be a separate power, is the actual content of ignorance, IS the ignorance. 2. The acceptance of That by the ego, IS the
[FairfieldLife] Re: Realization-- from the FFL archives
...people do not accept the manifest form of Bhagavan [God] and suppose that the niraakaara [formless] cannot see or hear. Hindu Deities: http://tinyurl.com/4e2urv
[FairfieldLife] Re: Realization-- from the FFL archives
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sandiego108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Because I've heard Maharishi say, on numerous occasions, that devotion is meaningless until CC (Self-realization) has dawned. * I heard MMY at the Humboldt Aug 70 TTC course that devotion in less than CC meant regularity of practice of TM.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Realization-- from the FFL archives
--- bob_brigante [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sandiego108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Because I've heard Maharishi say, on numerous occasions, that devotion is meaningless until CC (Self-realization) has dawned. * I heard MMY at the Humboldt Aug 70 TTC course that devotion in less than CC meant regularity of practice of TM. Maharishi's point is well made, but there is an entire spiritual tradition of bhakti that starts well before CC. Narada's Bhakti Sutras talk about tamasic, rajasic, sattvic bhakti, and finally, parabhakti. When Maharishi was talking about devotion, he was referring parabhakti. But the other forms of devotion are developments towards para or transcendent bhakti. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!'Yahoo! Groups Links mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[FairfieldLife] Re: Realization-- from the FFL archives
--Flaws in your interesting discourse... (by way of example): doesn't explain how an Enlightened person like A (mentioned before) can still be Enlightened and be a child molestor. - In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sandiego108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I stumbled across this in the vast archive of FFL messages, and thought it was worth a copy and paste (its not mine): Knowledge is different in different states of consciousness. I'm trying to get us to stop talking about devotion, free will, etc. from the waking state (the relative), and start talking about it from the Absolute side of the fence. Why? Because I've heard Maharishi say, on numerous occasions, that devotion is meaningless until CC (Self-realization) has dawned. Before that, he says, who is surrendering? We don't even know who we are, so how can we sur- render? We are unreal, so what are we giving up? What are we surrender- ing. Surrender only has meaning when something significant is to be given up, surrendered. Surrender is only meaningful from a place of strength. Only in CC do we know who we are. THEN surrender has some meaning. Before CC, all action is already being performed by the Self, but the in- dividual, unenlightened ego claims credit for everything. It claims to be surrendering, just like a prisoner in a prison might say in his de- lusion I'm here voluntarily. But no matter what he says, he is there at the control of a higher power. If he continues to insist that he has free will, those who know the reality will just smile and call him deluded. In ignorance, no individual is making any choices. They just PRETEND they are, and then they have discussions about the mechanics of making the best choice, and what will be the effects of my various choices. But it's all delusion. In CC, when we stop identifying with that ignorant individuality, and realize that we are the Self, then, for the first time, we realize that we actually DO have free will, because we are the One Self that exercises ALL the free will, we are finally The Doer. We are finally free, and only in freedom is free will possible. The prisoner in our example may decide to stay in jail, be locked in his cell to sleep at lights out, take a shower at 8am, etc. He may decide to surrender to the higher authority of the prison warden. But you and I know that he is going to do those things whether he thinks he believes that he's decided to surrender to them or not. Only, with one set of beliefs, his life will be full of pain and suffering, and with the other set of beliefs, he will flow with the reality THAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN ANYWAY. Even his choice of which prison warden has control over him is out of his hands. He doesn't choose his prison, or his warden. The system sends him where it thinks he will do best. Same with the choice of a guru. The system chooses for us, runs us around through life till we are brought to where we are meant to be. And from the outside, our actions may look like we've been exercising our own judgment, but we are in the matrix, and the program is being run by the Self (or by Nature, or God, or karma...) In CC, the decision to surrender to something even bigger can have mean- ing. In CC the surrender of infinity to a larger infinity is real. In waking state, the surrender of a finite dreamer, of a delusional exis- tence, to infinity is meaningless, is an illusion, and does not happen the way the ego would like to claim it does. The ignorant, relative ego is totally moved by the Self. It is just a wave of the Self. All thought, speech, and action is powered by the Self. 1. The resistance to That by the ego, the claim to be a separate power, is the actual content of ignorance, IS the ignorance. 2. The acceptance of That by the ego, IS the awakening, is Self- realiza- tion. The Self that we were pretending is less real than the ego, now becomes more real. It is real-ized.
