[FairfieldLife] Re: Research on Cosmic Consciousness... more detail
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : From: salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com Does cosmic consciousness still work when you are under an anaesthetic? I'm guessing not. The jury may be out on this one, because of a somewhat scary phenomenon called anesthesia awareness. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anesthesia_awareness http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anesthesia_awareness) Sounds hideous, but I think that in order to be sure we should get a volunteer in claimed cosmic cosnciousness to go under the knife. Just for the science of course... L
[FairfieldLife] Re: Research on Cosmic Consciousness... more detail
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, LEnglish5@... wrote : In order for perception to be perception, there must be a physical nervous system. Even for universal consciousness to be aware of things (even of Itself), there must be structure --some kind of physiology, even if it is made of Universal Consciousness with no defining characteristics besides being Universal Consciousness. At least we now know it's nothing to do with physics. I expect to see some unified field charts in the bin next time I walk past the TM centre. Recall though, that Maharishi's words were that wholeness of life comes to be appreciated when the nervous system takes on a certain form (from memory). The wholeness of life (brahm) exists whether we appreciate it or not. Our appreciation of this wholeness without duality is _samadhi_ and _samadhi_ can occur *because* our nervous system has taken on a certain form (supporting PC or CC or GC or UC, depending). L ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seerdope@... wrote : Mac said: Just as it says in the Gita, about pure consciousness being unable to be influenced or destroyed, yes, the witness of pure awareness, continues, through any permutation of awareness the mind is in - sleep, dreaming, intoxicated, awake BINGO!!! Yes, it is our eternal self, that lives beyond time and space. What is the role of the brain in Samadhi and higher states? Sparaig recently quoted MMY: Every experience has its level of physiology, and so unbounded awareness has its own level of physiology which can be measured. … Everything is physical. Consciousness is the product of the functioning of the brain. This implies or opens the door to a model that Samadhi and higher states are achieved via neuroplasticity of the brain -- culturing and refining it in ways as to enable Samadhi, eventually on permanent basis. That is, the brain is optimized via new neural connections, long-term potentiation (persistent increase in synaptic strength following high-frequency stimulation of a chemical synapse) across existing neural pathways, changes in activation potential of long cascades of neurons, modification of mix, availability and persistence of neurotransmitters (NT), changes in NT receptors, etc. Which is a fascinating prospect. And might imply a genetic propensity towards Samadhi in some populations or families relative to others. That is, while everyone could culture Samadhi via systematic neuroplasticity methods, some may have a genetic head start -- the brain is already has some requisite pre-wiring. However, if Samadhi is brain dependent, then established Samadhi would not be sustained upon death of the body. And may not persevere with large changes to brain chemistry or structural changes from accidents or disease such as Alzheimers. And cessation of Samadhi at death would be inconsistent with significant portions of traditional literature, which in turn would then tend to place all statements in traditional literature in question. On the other hand, if Samadhi is not brain dependent, then what are physiological / brain research on meditation / yoga measuring? And why would the body or brain matter in modalities to culture Samadhi? These questions keep me awake at night.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Research on Cosmic Consciousness... more detail
they don't have to have surgery, just go under the anesthesia From: salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, October 5, 2014 4:30 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Research on Cosmic Consciousness... more detail ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : From: salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com Does cosmic consciousness still work when you are under an anaesthetic? I'm guessing not. The jury may be out on this one, because of a somewhat scary phenomenon called anesthesia awareness. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anesthesia_awareness) Sounds hideous, but I think that in order to be sure we should get a volunteer in claimed cosmic cosnciousness to go under the knife. Just for the science of course... L
[FairfieldLife] Re: Research on Cosmic Consciousness... more detail
CC doesn't depend on awareness of the outside world, only on self-awareness. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : From: salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com Does cosmic consciousness still work when you are under an anaesthetic? I'm guessing not. The jury may be out on this one, because of a somewhat scary phenomenon called anesthesia awareness. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anesthesia_awareness http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anesthesia_awareness) Sounds hideous, but I think that in order to be sure we should get a volunteer in claimed cosmic cosnciousness to go under the knife. Just for the science of course... L
[FairfieldLife] Re: Research on Cosmic Consciousness... more detail
There does appear to be a physiological correlate to Samahdi, and the permanent witnessing, though it must be more comprehensive than anything western medicine recognizes, because the effect perpetuates, in an unaltered state, no matter what the relative awareness is doing. There are other side effects, too, as I seem to be getting *younger*, and stronger, as the years go by. Several people have remarked on the difference. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seerdope@... wrote : Mac said: Just as it says in the Gita, about pure consciousness being unable to be influenced or destroyed, yes, the witness of pure awareness, continues, through any permutation of awareness the mind is in - sleep, dreaming, intoxicated, awake BINGO!!! Yes, it is our eternal self, that lives beyond time and space. What is the role of the brain in Samadhi and higher states? Sparaig recently quoted MMY: Every experience has its level of physiology, and so unbounded awareness has its own level of physiology which can be measured. … Everything is physical. Consciousness is the product of the functioning of the brain. This implies or opens the door to a model that Samadhi and higher states are achieved via neuroplasticity of the brain -- culturing and refining it in ways as to enable Samadhi, eventually on permanent basis. That is, the brain is optimized via new neural connections, long-term potentiation (persistent increase in synaptic strength following high-frequency stimulation of a chemical synapse) across existing neural pathways, changes in activation potential of long cascades of neurons, modification of mix, availability and persistence of neurotransmitters (NT), changes in NT receptors, etc. Which is a fascinating prospect. And might imply a genetic propensity towards Samadhi in some populations or families relative to others. That is, while everyone could culture Samadhi via systematic neuroplasticity methods, some may have a genetic head start -- the brain is already has some requisite pre-wiring. However, if Samadhi is brain dependent, then established Samadhi would not be sustained upon death of the body. And may not persevere with large changes to brain chemistry or structural changes from accidents or disease such as Alzheimers. And cessation of Samadhi at death would be inconsistent with significant portions of traditional literature, which in turn would then tend to place all statements in traditional literature in question. On the other hand, if Samadhi is not brain dependent, then what are physiological / brain research on meditation / yoga measuring? And why would the body or brain matter in modalities to culture Samadhi? These questions keep me awake at night.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Research on Cosmic Consciousness... more detail
I don't do the bullshit capital s, since the big s self is the only one I identify with. So when I say self, I mean the real one. There cannot be a meaningful distinction, between something real, and something imagined. Not the same ballpark. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : On 10/3/2014 10:12 AM, fleetwood_macncheese@... mailto:fleetwood_macncheese@... [FairfieldLife] wrote: BINGO!!! Yes, it is our eternal self, that lives beyond time and space. Some more minor comments: According to MMY, the Self is eternal and transcendental to time and space; the self lives inside time and space and the senses. The individual self is an appearance only - a product of the senses. If appearances derived through one sensory channel appear contradictory, it is natural to appeal to other senses for corroboration. The question is, how do we decide between conflicting senses? The transcendentalists who arranged the Upanishads agree that we must transcend the world of sense perception in order to know and understand the world of perception. They all agreed that the indescribable material world is of a self-contradictory nature and that if you want to remove the contradictions you have to transcend the world. Otherwise, a person is just using common sense: thinking that the world of objects is the only existence, that there is nothing beyond or transcendental to the senses. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, martyboi@... mailto:martyboi@... wrote : I'm not sure what CC is, but if it includes witnessing sleep I don't think any physiological state could stop it. I think it should continue under anesthesia or even drunkenness. Should continue, even when the body drops too.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Research on Cosmic Consciousness... more detail
To summarize (and probably oversimplify) Fred's research: Samadhi is where a healthy brain is not doing anything, but is still alert. In more detail, during PC during TM, the connectivity of the default mode network (the part of the brain that activates when you're not trying to DO something) becomes very enhanced, while the doing aspect of the activity of the brain becomes less. This has the effect of enhancing connectivity between the parts of the brain that have to do with sense of self. Along with this, the person's reaction to stressful situations becomes less intense. Outside of meditation, as these connections become stronger, the meditator starts to notice the emergence of a strong, uninvolved sense of self. As these connections become even stronger, the sense of self becomes permanent in the sense that it is present at all times, whether waking, dreaming or sleeping. By this point, one no longer sees temporary things like beliefs and emotions as being the true self. Along with this, the person's reaction to stressful situations becomes less intense. As the connections become even stronger, the person's reaction to stressful situations becomes less intense. Rinse and repeat. GC and UC seem to be enhancements of this situation but don't just involve connections within the frontal lobes, but with the rest of the brain as well. In UC, I'm guessing, not only are the connections very strong bertween the frontal lobes (sense of self) and the rest of the brain, but the doing aspect of electrical activity of the brain has become very much a harmonic sitting on top of the sense of self lower alpha frequencies. In a very real, physical, measurable, sense, all perception and activity are now harmonic fluctuations of the sense of self highly coherent alpha EEG. Everything is simply fluctuations of Self, as MMY says. L ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : There does appear to be a physiological correlate to Samahdi, and the permanent witnessing, though it must be more comprehensive than anything western medicine recognizes, because the effect perpetuates, in an unaltered state, no matter what the relative awareness is doing. There are other side effects, too, as I seem to be getting *younger*, and stronger, as the years go by. Several people have remarked on the difference. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seerdope@... wrote : Mac said: Just as it says in the Gita, about pure consciousness being unable to be influenced or destroyed, yes, the witness of pure awareness, continues, through any permutation of awareness the mind is in - sleep, dreaming, intoxicated, awake BINGO!!! Yes, it is our eternal self, that lives beyond time and space. What is the role of the brain in Samadhi and higher states? Sparaig recently quoted MMY: Every experience has its level of physiology, and so unbounded awareness has its own level of physiology which can be measured. … Everything is physical. Consciousness is the product of the functioning of the brain. This implies or opens the door to a model that Samadhi and higher states are achieved via neuroplasticity of the brain -- culturing and refining it in ways as to enable Samadhi, eventually on permanent basis. That is, the brain is optimized via new neural connections, long-term potentiation (persistent increase in synaptic strength following high-frequency stimulation of a chemical synapse) across existing neural pathways, changes in activation potential of long cascades of neurons, modification of mix, availability and persistence of neurotransmitters (NT), changes in NT receptors, etc. Which is a fascinating prospect. And might imply a genetic propensity towards Samadhi in some populations or families relative to others. That is, while everyone could culture Samadhi via systematic neuroplasticity methods, some may have a genetic head start -- the brain is already has some requisite pre-wiring. However, if Samadhi is brain dependent, then established Samadhi would not be sustained upon death of the body. And may not persevere with large changes to brain chemistry or structural changes from accidents or disease such as Alzheimers. And cessation of Samadhi at death would be inconsistent with significant portions of traditional literature, which in turn would then tend to place all statements in traditional literature in question. On the other hand, if Samadhi is not brain dependent, then what are physiological / brain research on meditation / yoga measuring? And why would the body or brain matter in modalities to culture Samadhi? These questions keep me awake at night.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Research on Cosmic Consciousness... more detail
!This is fabulous scientific validation and description in an age of reason! Transcending meditation haters and Maharishi Mahesh Yogi bashers eat crow! Jai Guru Dev, -Buck LEnglish5@... wrote : To summarize (and probably oversimplify) Fred's research: Samadhi is where a healthy brain is not doing anything, but is still alert. In more detail, during PC during TM, the connectivity of the default mode network (the part of the brain that activates when you're not trying to DO something) becomes very enhanced, while the doing aspect of the activity of the brain becomes less. This has the effect of enhancing connectivity between the parts of the brain that have to do with sense of self. Along with this, the person's reaction to stressful situations becomes less intense. Outside of meditation, as these connections become stronger, the meditator starts to notice the emergence of a strong, uninvolved sense of self. As these connections become even stronger, the sense of self becomes permanent in the sense that it is present at all times, whether waking, dreaming or sleeping. By this point, one no longer sees temporary things like beliefs and emotions as being the true self. Along with this, the person's reaction to stressful situations becomes less intense. As the connections become even stronger, the person's reaction to stressful situations becomes less intense. Rinse and repeat. GC and UC seem to be enhancements of this situation but don't just involve connections within the frontal lobes, but with the rest of the brain as well. In UC, I'm guessing, not only are the connections very strong bertween the frontal lobes (sense of self) and the rest of the brain, but the doing aspect of electrical activity of the brain has become very much a harmonic sitting on top of the sense of self lower alpha frequencies. In a very real, physical, measurable, sense, all perception and activity are now harmonic fluctuations of the sense of self highly coherent alpha EEG. Everything is simply fluctuations of Self, as MMY says. L ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : There does appear to be a physiological correlate to Samahdi, and the permanent witnessing, though it must be more comprehensive than anything western medicine recognizes, because the effect perpetuates, in an unaltered state, no matter what the relative awareness is doing. There are other side effects, too, as I seem to be getting *younger*, and stronger, as the years go by. Several people have remarked on the difference. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seerdope@... wrote : Mac said: Just as it says in the Gita, about pure consciousness being unable to be influenced or destroyed, yes, the witness of pure awareness, continues, through any permutation of awareness the mind is in - sleep, dreaming, intoxicated, awake BINGO!!! Yes, it is our eternal self, that lives beyond time and space. What is the role of the brain in Samadhi and higher states? Sparaig recently quoted MMY: Every experience has its level of physiology, and so unbounded awareness has its own level of physiology which can be measured. … Everything is physical. Consciousness is the product of the functioning of the brain. This implies or opens the door to a model that Samadhi and higher states are achieved via neuroplasticity of the brain -- culturing and refining it in ways as to enable Samadhi, eventually on permanent basis. That is, the brain is optimized via new neural connections, long-term potentiation (persistent increase in synaptic strength following high-frequency stimulation of a chemical synapse) across existing neural pathways, changes in activation potential of long cascades of neurons, modification of mix, availability and persistence of neurotransmitters (NT), changes in NT receptors, etc. Which is a fascinating prospect. And might imply a genetic propensity towards Samadhi in some populations or families relative to others. That is, while everyone could culture Samadhi via systematic neuroplasticity methods, some may have a genetic head start -- the brain is already has some requisite pre-wiring. However, if Samadhi is brain dependent, then established Samadhi would not be sustained upon death of the body. And may not persevere with large changes to brain chemistry or structural changes from accidents or disease such as Alzheimers. And cessation of Samadhi at death would be inconsistent with significant portions of traditional literature, which in turn would then tend to place all statements in traditional literature in question. On the other hand, if Samadhi is not brain dependent, then what are physiological / brain research on meditation / yoga measuring? And why would the body or brain matter in modalities to culture Samadhi? These questions keep me awake at
[FairfieldLife] Re: Research on Cosmic Consciousness... more detail
Does cosmic consciousness still work when you are under an anaesthetic? I'm guessing not. The main worry about this research is that the existence of different attentional states somehow implies that the cosmology as presented by Marshy and his vedic tradition is correct. By cosmology I mean that consciousness is some sort of unified field that is beyond us reachable by us as a kind of method of gaining insight into the workings of physics. I don't think it is at all. What we most likely have here is continual meditation developing a type of awareness using a different section of the brain. It's like when we use NLP techniques to develop new neural networks to achieve different results in life than our social training equips us for. We are immediately aware these modes even if unfamiliar. The evidence is that consciousness is spread out through the brain, meditation may very well be altering the way we perceive it by creating an empty neural network for consciousness to observe, as opposed to something active that people usually achieve when they learn something new. Calling it cosmic is muddying the waters I suspect. More data on how consciousness works is needed, luckily that is piling up all the time. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, LEnglish5@... wrote : The criteria the Fred used to find his subjects in CC was that they had to have continuous integration of transcendental experiences (TE) with waking and sleeping for at least 1 year. The Cont-TE group. Two other groups were chosen as well: people who intended to learn TM but had not yet started and had rare (less than 1 per year -the Rare-TE group) transcendental experiences, and people who had been practicing TM for a while, but did not report frequent transcendental experiences outside of meditation (between 1 and 10 TE per year -the Occas-TE group). A semi-structured interview and two measures of TE were used to substantiate subjects’ self-reports of inner experiences. The two measures had been developed by non-TMers to measure frequency of transcendental experiences in the general population: Hood’s M-Scale from [Hood, R.W., 1975. The construction and preliminary validation of a measure of reported mystical experience. Journal of Scientific Study Religion 14, 29-41] and Baruss’s Physical-Transcendent Scale from [Baruss, E., Moore, R.J., 1992. Measurement of beliefs about consciousness and reality. Psychology Reports 71, 59-64] Group means for M-Scale were: Rare-TE:/18.19 +/-6.47; Occas-TE:/39.59 +/-3.15; Cont-TE:/60.79 +/-0.61. Group means for the Physical-Transcendent Scale were: Rare-TE:/35.79 +/-5.21; Occas-TE:/61.49 +/-4.71; Cont-TE:/84.19 +/-2.96. Various EEG and other physical measures were done as well as interview questions. The results were reported in two different papers: http://www.totalbrain.ch/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/brain-integration-progress-report.pdf http://www.totalbrain.ch/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/brain-integration-progress-report.pdf http://www.totalbrain.ch/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/eeg-of-enlightenment.pdf http://www.totalbrain.ch/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/eeg-of-enlightenment.pdf L
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Research on Cosmic Consciousness... more detail
From: salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com Does cosmic consciousness still work when you are under an anaesthetic? I'm guessing not. The jury may be out on this one, because of a somewhat scary phenomenon called anesthesia awareness. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anesthesia_awareness) This is quite a concern among surgeons because it's possible (and happens in 0.2-0.4% of cases, more if the patient is traumatized) for a person to receive the full and appropriate dose of an anesthetic that is supposed to knock them out completely, yet still be awake during an operation. Imagine being able to feel the surgeon cutting into your heart, or being able to hear them talking about you. The latter possibility has now almost comically worked its way into surgical guidelines: Because the medical staff may not know if a person is unconscious or not, it has been suggested that the staff maintain the professional conduct that would be appropriate for a conscious patient. The main worry about this research is that the existence of different attentional states somehow implies that the cosmology as presented by Marshy and his vedic tradition is correct. By cosmology I mean that consciousness is some sort of unified field that is beyond us reachable by us as a kind of method of gaining insight into the workings of physics. I don't think it is at all. What we most likely have here is continual meditation developing a type of awareness using a different section of the brain. It's like when we use NLP techniques to develop new neural networks to achieve different results in life than our social training equips us for. We are immediately aware these modes even if unfamiliar. The evidence is that consciousness is spread out through the brain, meditation may very well be altering the way we perceive it by creating an empty neural network for consciousness to observe, as opposed to something active that people usually achieve when they learn something new. Calling it cosmic is muddying the waters I suspect. More data on how consciousness works is needed, luckily that is piling up all the time. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, LEnglish5@... wrote : The criteria the Fred used to find his subjects in CC was that they had to have continuous integration of transcendental experiences (TE) with waking and sleeping for at least 1 year. The Cont-TE group. Two other groups were chosen as well: people who intended to learn TM but had not yet started and had rare (less than 1 per year -the Rare-TE group) transcendental experiences, and people who had been practicing TM for a while, but did not report frequent transcendental experiences outside of meditation (between 1 and 10 TE per year -the Occas-TE group). A semi-structured interview and two measures of TE were used to substantiate subjects’ self-reports of inner experiences. The two measures had been developed by non-TMers to measure frequency of transcendental experiences in the general population: Hood’s M-Scale from [Hood, R.W., 1975.The construction and preliminary validation of a measure of reported mystical experience. Journal of Scientific Study Religion 14, 29-41] and Baruss’s Physical-Transcendent Scale from [Baruss, E., Moore, R.J., 1992. Measurement of beliefs about consciousness and reality. Psychology Reports 71, 59-64] Group means for M-Scale were: Rare-TE:/18.19 +/-6.47; Occas-TE:/39.59 +/-3.15; Cont-TE:/60.79 +/-0.61. Group means for the Physical-Transcendent Scale were: Rare-TE:/35.79 +/-5.21; Occas-TE:/61.49 +/-4.71; Cont-TE:/84.19 +/-2.96. Various EEG and other physical measures were done as well as interview questions. The results were reported in two different papers: http://www.totalbrain.ch/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/brain-integration-progress-report.pdf http://www.totalbrain.ch/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/eeg-of-enlightenment.pdf L
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Research on Cosmic Consciousness... more detail
On 10/3/2014 1:17 AM, salyavin808 wrote: Does cosmic consciousness still work when you are under an anaesthetic? /Non sequitur. A person has to be conscious to experience consciousness—the having of perceptions, thoughts, and feelings and awareness. A person under anaeshesia by definition is unconsciousness./ /You are not even making any sense. Go figure./ /A definition of cosmic consciousness might be in order here. According to what I've read, the most extensive study of the characteristics of altered states of consciousness was made by psychologist Charles Tart in the 1960s and 1970s. William James is usually credited with popularizing the idea that human consciousness flows like a stream. According to Richard Maurice, cosmic consciousness is a higher form of consciousness than that possessed by the ordinary man. Bucke distinguished between three types of consciousness: Simple Consciousness, awareness of the body, possessed by many animals; Self Consciousness, awareness of being aware, possessed only by humans; and Cosmic Consciousness, awareness of the life and order of the universe, possessed only by humans who are enlightened. / I'm guessing not. The main worry about this research is that the existence of different attentional states somehow implies that the cosmology as presented by Marshy and his vedic tradition is correct. /My guess is that any scientific research concerning altered states of consciousness that you might report on FFL is biased. There's noMarshy mentioned in the Vedic tradition.// Bias: prejudice in favor of or against one thing, person, or group compared with another, usually in a way considered to be unfair. / By cosmology I mean that consciousness is some sort of unified field that is beyond us /There is no evidence that cosmology that is consciousness is a united field that is beyond us.//Scientists want to find an activity that has a neural correlate that is part of the brain or some kind of global pattern of brain activity. If found, there should be a predictive of conscious awareness and would be demonstrated with brain imaging techniques, such as EEG and fMRI./ reachable by us as a kind of method of gaining insight into the workings of physics. /For TMers, the most thorough account of the spiritual approach may be Ken Wilber's book The Spectrum of Consciousness. Wilber compares western and eastern ways of thinking about the mind and consciousness. According to Wilber, consciousness is a spectrum. Ordinary awareness is at one end, and more profound types of awareness are found at higher levels. / I don't think it is at all. The only way humans can know anything is through consciousness - cosmic consciousness implies transcendental knowledge; knowledge that is beyond the sensible. /Works cited:/ Wiber, Ken (2002). The Spectrum of Consciousness. Charles Tart (2001). Ch. 2: The components of consciousness. States of Consciousness. Bucke, Richard Maurice (2009). Cosmic Consciousness: A Study in the Evolution of the Human Mind.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Research on Cosmic Consciousness... more detail
Does cosmic consciousness still work when you are under an anaesthetic? On 10/3/2014 3:38 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: The jury may be out on this one, because of a somewhat scary phenomenon called anesthesia awareness. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anesthesia_awareness) //Non sequitur. /Is this anything like your dumb report on total sleep deprivation? / This is quite a concern among surgeons because it's possible (and happens in 0.2-0.4% of cases, more if the patient is traumatized) for a person to receive the full and appropriate dose of an anesthetic that is supposed to knock them out completely, yet still be awake during an operation. Imagine being able to feel the surgeon cutting into your heart, or being able to hear them talking about you. The latter possibility has now almost comically worked its way into surgical guidelines: Because the medical staff may not know if a person is unconscious or not, it has been suggested that the staff maintain the professional conduct that would be appropriate for a conscious patient. /Anesthesia by definition is a temporary unconscious state where there is a no pain. Anesthesia awareness occurs during general anesthesia when the patient has not been given enough of the general anesthetic to render the patient unconscious./
[FairfieldLife] Re: Research on Cosmic Consciousness... more detail
I'm not sure what CC is, but if it includes witnessing sleep I don't think any physiological state could stop it. I think it should continue under anesthesia or even drunkenness. Should continue, even when the body drops too.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Research on Cosmic Consciousness... more detail
Just as it says in the Gita, about pure consciousness being unable to be influenced or destroyed, yes, the witness of pure awareness, continues, through any permutation of awareness the mind is in - sleep, dreaming, intoxicated, awake. These states of awareness are due to the gross functioning of the body, in response to its needs. Barry, who seems perpetually confused, equates waking state with Cosmic Consciousness, and is dead wrong, as usual. Just as love unites, and creates perfection, simply by its nature, so does Cosmic Consciousness, uniting everything within the universal awareness. Trying to sense CC, or imagine what it is like, as Barry has done, will never lead to knowledge or understanding of that state of Cosmic Consciousness. Living it is the only way to know what is going on, and be able to explain it clearly. Otherwise, it is the imposition of imagination, on waking state consciousness, and that just leads to delusion, as should be obvious by the strange assumptions and speculations being made. Thinking you know something doesn't make it so. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : Does cosmic consciousness still work when you are under an anaesthetic? I'm guessing not. The main worry about this research is that the existence of different attentional states somehow implies that the cosmology as presented by Marshy and his vedic tradition is correct. By cosmology I mean that consciousness is some sort of unified field that is beyond us reachable by us as a kind of method of gaining insight into the workings of physics. I don't think it is at all. What we most likely have here is continual meditation developing a type of awareness using a different section of the brain. It's like when we use NLP techniques to develop new neural networks to achieve different results in life than our social training equips us for. We are immediately aware these modes even if unfamiliar. The evidence is that consciousness is spread out through the brain, meditation may very well be altering the way we perceive it by creating an empty neural network for consciousness to observe, as opposed to something active that people usually achieve when they learn something new. Calling it cosmic is muddying the waters I suspect. More data on how consciousness works is needed, luckily that is piling up all the time. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, LEnglish5@... wrote : The criteria the Fred used to find his subjects in CC was that they had to have continuous integration of transcendental experiences (TE) with waking and sleeping for at least 1 year. The Cont-TE group. Two other groups were chosen as well: people who intended to learn TM but had not yet started and had rare (less than 1 per year -the Rare-TE group) transcendental experiences, and people who had been practicing TM for a while, but did not report frequent transcendental experiences outside of meditation (between 1 and 10 TE per year -the Occas-TE group). A semi-structured interview and two measures of TE were used to substantiate subjects’ self-reports of inner experiences. The two measures had been developed by non-TMers to measure frequency of transcendental experiences in the general population: Hood’s M-Scale from [Hood, R.W., 1975. The construction and preliminary validation of a measure of reported mystical experience. Journal of Scientific Study Religion 14, 29-41] and Baruss’s Physical-Transcendent Scale from [Baruss, E., Moore, R.J., 1992. Measurement of beliefs about consciousness and reality. Psychology Reports 71, 59-64] Group means for M-Scale were: Rare-TE:/18.19 +/-6.47; Occas-TE:/39.59 +/-3.15; Cont-TE:/60.79 +/-0.61. Group means for the Physical-Transcendent Scale were: Rare-TE:/35.79 +/-5.21; Occas-TE:/61.49 +/-4.71; Cont-TE:/84.19 +/-2.96. Various EEG and other physical measures were done as well as interview questions. The results were reported in two different papers: http://www.totalbrain.ch/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/brain-integration-progress-report.pdf http://www.totalbrain.ch/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/brain-integration-progress-report.pdf http://www.totalbrain.ch/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/eeg-of-enlightenment.pdf http://www.totalbrain.ch/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/eeg-of-enlightenment.pdf L
[FairfieldLife] Re: Research on Cosmic Consciousness... more detail
BINGO!!! Yes, it is our eternal self, that lives beyond time and space. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, martyboi@... wrote : I'm not sure what CC is, but if it includes witnessing sleep I don't think any physiological state could stop it. I think it should continue under anesthesia or even drunkenness. Should continue, even when the body drops too.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Research on Cosmic Consciousness... more detail
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : BINGO!!! Yes, it is our eternal self, that lives beyond time and space. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, martyboi@... wrote : I'm not sure what CC is, but if it includes witnessing sleep I don't think any physiological state could stop it. I think it should continue under anesthesia or even drunkenness. Should continue, even when the body drops too. Correct. My experience is inclusive of anesthesia and inebriation. But not that later state.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Research on Cosmic Consciousness... more detail
On 10/3/2014 10:12 AM, fleetwood_macnche...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: BINGO!!! Yes, it is our eternal self, that lives beyond time and space. /Some more minor comments: // // //According to MMY, the Self is eternal and transcendental to time and space; the self lives inside time and space and the senses.//The individual self is an appearance only - a product of the senses. If appearances derived through one sensory channel appear contradictory, it is natural to appeal to other senses for corroboration. The question is, how do we decide between conflicting senses? // //The transcendentalists who arranged the Upanishads agree that we must transcend the world of sense perception in order to know and understand the world of perception. They all agreed that the indescribable material world is of a self-contradictory nature and that if you want to remove the contradictions you have to transcend the world.// // //Otherwise, a person is just using common sense: thinking that the world of objects is the only existence, that there is nothing beyond or transcendental to the senses. / ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, martyboi@... wrote : I'm not sure what CC is, but if it includes witnessing sleep I don't think any physiological state could stop it. I think it should continue under anesthesia or even drunkenness. Should continue, even when the body drops too.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Research on Cosmic Consciousness... more detail
What is the role of the brain in Samadhi and higher states? Sparaig recently quoted MMY: Every experience has its level of physiology, and so unbounded awareness has its own level of physiology which can be measured. … Everything is physical. Consciousness is the product of the functioning of the brain. This implies or opens the door to a model that Samadhi and higher states are achieved via neuroplasticity of the brain -- culturing and refining it in ways as to enable Samadhi, eventually on permanent basis. That is, the brain is optimized via new neural connections, long-term potentiation (persistent increase in synaptic strength following high-frequency stimulation of a chemical synapse) across existing neural pathways, changes in activation potential of long cascades of neurons, modification of mix, availability and persistence of neurotransmitters (NT), changes in NT receptors, etc. Which is a fascinating prospect. And might imply a genetic propensity towards Samadhi in some populations or families relative to others. That is, while everyone could culture Samadhi via systematic neuroplasticity methods, some may have a genetic head start -- the brain is already has some requisite pre-wiring. However, if Samadhi is brain dependent, then established Samadhi would not be sustained upon death of the body. And may not persevere with large changes to brain chemistry or structural changes from accidents or disease such as Alzheimers. And cessation of Samadhi at death would be inconsistent with significant portions of traditional literature, which in turn would then tend to place all statements in traditional literature in question. On the other hand, if Samadhi is not brain dependent, then what are physiological / brain research on meditation / yoga measuring? And why would the body or brain matter in modalities to culture Samadhi? These questions keep me awake at night.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Research on Cosmic Consciousness... more detail
Mac said: Just as it says in the Gita, about pure consciousness being unable to be influenced or destroyed, yes, the witness of pure awareness, continues, through any permutation of awareness the mind is in - sleep, dreaming, intoxicated, awake BINGO!!! Yes, it is our eternal self, that lives beyond time and space. What is the role of the brain in Samadhi and higher states? Sparaig recently quoted MMY: Every experience has its level of physiology, and so unbounded awareness has its own level of physiology which can be measured. … Everything is physical. Consciousness is the product of the functioning of the brain. This implies or opens the door to a model that Samadhi and higher states are achieved via neuroplasticity of the brain -- culturing and refining it in ways as to enable Samadhi, eventually on permanent basis. That is, the brain is optimized via new neural connections, long-term potentiation (persistent increase in synaptic strength following high-frequency stimulation of a chemical synapse) across existing neural pathways, changes in activation potential of long cascades of neurons, modification of mix, availability and persistence of neurotransmitters (NT), changes in NT receptors, etc. Which is a fascinating prospect. And might imply a genetic propensity towards Samadhi in some populations or families relative to others. That is, while everyone could culture Samadhi via systematic neuroplasticity methods, some may have a genetic head start -- the brain is already has some requisite pre-wiring. However, if Samadhi is brain dependent, then established Samadhi would not be sustained upon death of the body. And may not persevere with large changes to brain chemistry or structural changes from accidents or disease such as Alzheimers. And cessation of Samadhi at death would be inconsistent with significant portions of traditional literature, which in turn would then tend to place all statements in traditional literature in question. On the other hand, if Samadhi is not brain dependent, then what are physiological / brain research on meditation / yoga measuring? And why would the body or brain matter in modalities to culture Samadhi? These questions keep me awake at night.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Research on Cosmic Consciousness... more detail
On 10/3/2014 12:02 PM, seerd...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: And might imply a genetic propensity towards Samadhi in some populations or families relative to others. /This might be a good time to review the definition of samadhi:/ 1. Sanskrit (saúmaúdhi) n. Jap., sanmai or zanmai 2. Nirvana, parinirvana from the root word 'Sam', to establish, make firm 3. A conscious experience that lies beyond waking, dreaming, and deep sleep 4. A meditative mental equipoise /The word samadhi is found in the early Buddhist literature, specifically in the Sutras of Shakya the Muni, India's first historical yogin. There is a long history of the use of this word in early pre-sectarian Buddhism, and in the Chan tradition and in Zen Buddhism. In the index of the Visuddi Magga, for example, there apparently are over twenty-five references to Samadhi.// / // That is, while everyone could culture Samadhi via systematic neuroplasticity methods, some may have a genetic head start -- the brain is already has some requisite pre-wiring. /However, the word Samadhi is not found in any of the 10 Upanishads commented on by Shankara Acharya. This is no small matter and cannot be passed over, for if, as you say, the attainment of Samadhi is central to the experiential verification of the traditional literature, one would expect the phrase to occur in the sacred texts of the Indians, right?/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Research on Cosmic Consciousness... more detail
Maharishi suggested that the question where does the 'enlightened man' go when he dies? is simply a misunderstanding. Once Self is realized, there is no going. Unity is where this situation is directly perceived, but even for someone in CC, the question no longer makes sense, as you suggest. Also, while the research papers don't make it clear, I'm told that people who report witnessing sleep also report Witnessing during anesthesia as well. L ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : On 10/3/2014 10:12 AM, fleetwood_macncheese@... mailto:fleetwood_macncheese@... [FairfieldLife] wrote: BINGO!!! Yes, it is our eternal self, that lives beyond time and space. Some more minor comments: According to MMY, the Self is eternal and transcendental to time and space; the self lives inside time and space and the senses. The individual self is an appearance only - a product of the senses. If appearances derived through one sensory channel appear contradictory, it is natural to appeal to other senses for corroboration. The question is, how do we decide between conflicting senses? The transcendentalists who arranged the Upanishads agree that we must transcend the world of sense perception in order to know and understand the world of perception. They all agreed that the indescribable material world is of a self-contradictory nature and that if you want to remove the contradictions you have to transcend the world. Otherwise, a person is just using common sense: thinking that the world of objects is the only existence, that there is nothing beyond or transcendental to the senses. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, martyboi@... mailto:martyboi@... wrote : I'm not sure what CC is, but if it includes witnessing sleep I don't think any physiological state could stop it. I think it should continue under anesthesia or even drunkenness. Should continue, even when the body drops too.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Research on Cosmic Consciousness... more detail
In order for perception to be perception, there must be a physical nervous system. Even for universal consciousness to be aware of things (even of Itself), there must be structure --some kind of physiology, even if it is made of Universal Consciousness with no defining characteristics besides being Universal Consciousness. Recall though, that Maharishi's words were that wholeness of life comes to be appreciated when the nervous system takes on a certain form (from memory). The wholeness of life (brahm) exists whether we appreciate it or not. Our appreciation of this wholeness without duality is _samadhi_ and _samadhi_ can occur *because* our nervous system has taken on a certain form (supporting PC or CC or GC or UC, depending). L ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seerdope@... wrote : Mac said: Just as it says in the Gita, about pure consciousness being unable to be influenced or destroyed, yes, the witness of pure awareness, continues, through any permutation of awareness the mind is in - sleep, dreaming, intoxicated, awake BINGO!!! Yes, it is our eternal self, that lives beyond time and space. What is the role of the brain in Samadhi and higher states? Sparaig recently quoted MMY: Every experience has its level of physiology, and so unbounded awareness has its own level of physiology which can be measured. … Everything is physical. Consciousness is the product of the functioning of the brain. This implies or opens the door to a model that Samadhi and higher states are achieved via neuroplasticity of the brain -- culturing and refining it in ways as to enable Samadhi, eventually on permanent basis. That is, the brain is optimized via new neural connections, long-term potentiation (persistent increase in synaptic strength following high-frequency stimulation of a chemical synapse) across existing neural pathways, changes in activation potential of long cascades of neurons, modification of mix, availability and persistence of neurotransmitters (NT), changes in NT receptors, etc. Which is a fascinating prospect. And might imply a genetic propensity towards Samadhi in some populations or families relative to others. That is, while everyone could culture Samadhi via systematic neuroplasticity methods, some may have a genetic head start -- the brain is already has some requisite pre-wiring. However, if Samadhi is brain dependent, then established Samadhi would not be sustained upon death of the body. And may not persevere with large changes to brain chemistry or structural changes from accidents or disease such as Alzheimers. And cessation of Samadhi at death would be inconsistent with significant portions of traditional literature, which in turn would then tend to place all statements in traditional literature in question. On the other hand, if Samadhi is not brain dependent, then what are physiological / brain research on meditation / yoga measuring? And why would the body or brain matter in modalities to culture Samadhi? These questions keep me awake at night.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Research on Cosmic Consciousness... more detail
Cosmic consciousness (à la Maharishi) is not that complicated. It is an optimised duality. One experiences oneself as silent awareness, and everything else is walled off from the silence. Kinda feels like being underwater looking up at the world through the surface of the water. Other than than that sense of separation, nothing is different from waking. Ego is intact, but it's no longer you, but it's still a son-of-a-bastard and the mind is still essentially in a state of delusion. As it seems like a silent witness to activity, it is silent in that it can do nothing else. That split personality of experience fortunately eventually goes away and the two sides of the equation eventually shake hands and merge and cosmic consciousness is no more, being replaced with something much harder to communicate because when the two sides of the dualistic experience come together, there is no contrast between them, no way to distinguish them one from the other, except as an intellectual fiction. If you experience deep silence in meditation, and especially if you go on retreats and get some sustained silence, you can kind of imagine what cosmic consciousness is like, but you cannot imagine what full unity is like on this basis because the absence of separation leaves no way for anything to witness what it is. It is a whole without a second. You can have it, but you cannot actually describe it in any really meaningful way. But all these states are waking states and awareness is really always the same in all of them; it is just our understanding is dumbed down until a clear realisation of what the situation is. Then the 'highest' of the waking states is seen to be identical with the 'lowest', and the difference was just our imagination. From: fleetwood_macnche...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, October 3, 2014 3:05 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Research on Cosmic Consciousness... more detail Just as it says in the Gita, about pure consciousness being unable to be influenced or destroyed, yes, the witness of pure awareness, continues, through any permutation of awareness the mind is in - sleep, dreaming, intoxicated, awake. These states of awareness are due to the gross functioning of the body, in response to its needs. Barry, who seems perpetually confused, equates waking state with Cosmic Consciousness, and is dead wrong, as usual. Just as love unites, and creates perfection, simply by its nature, so does Cosmic Consciousness, uniting everything within the universal awareness. Trying to sense CC, or imagine what it is like, as Barry has done, will never lead to knowledge or understanding of that state of Cosmic Consciousness. Living it is the only way to know what is going on, and be able to explain it clearly. Otherwise, it is the imposition of imagination, on waking state consciousness, and that just leads to delusion, as should be obvious by the strange assumptions and speculations being made. Thinking you know something doesn't make it so.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Research on Cosmic Consciousness... more detail
Thanks for sharing this - Very well written, and good science - (I just read the second one) ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, LEnglish5@... wrote : The criteria the Fred used to find his subjects in CC was that they had to have continuous integration of transcendental experiences (TE) with waking and sleeping for at least 1 year. The Cont-TE group. Two other groups were chosen as well: people who intended to learn TM but had not yet started and had rare (less than 1 per year -the Rare-TE group) transcendental experiences, and people who had been practicing TM for a while, but did not report frequent transcendental experiences outside of meditation (between 1 and 10 TE per year -the Occas-TE group). A semi-structured interview and two measures of TE were used to substantiate subjects’ self-reports of inner experiences. The two measures had been developed by non-TMers to measure frequency of transcendental experiences in the general population: Hood’s M-Scale from [Hood, R.W., 1975. The construction and preliminary validation of a measure of reported mystical experience. Journal of Scientific Study Religion 14, 29-41] and Baruss’s Physical-Transcendent Scale from [Baruss, E., Moore, R.J., 1992. Measurement of beliefs about consciousness and reality. Psychology Reports 71, 59-64] Group means for M-Scale were: Rare-TE:/18.19 +/-6.47; Occas-TE:/39.59 +/-3.15; Cont-TE:/60.79 +/-0.61. Group means for the Physical-Transcendent Scale were: Rare-TE:/35.79 +/-5.21; Occas-TE:/61.49 +/-4.71; Cont-TE:/84.19 +/-2.96. Various EEG and other physical measures were done as well as interview questions. The results were reported in two different papers: http://www.totalbrain.ch/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/brain-integration-progress-report.pdf http://www.totalbrain.ch/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/brain-integration-progress-report.pdf http://www.totalbrain.ch/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/eeg-of-enlightenment.pdf http://www.totalbrain.ch/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/eeg-of-enlightenment.pdf L
