[FairfieldLife] Re: The inability to tell opinion from preaching

2007-10-30 Thread Jason Spock
 
   
  Do you think Maharishi himself is responsible for the rigidity ot the 
True Blue Believer.??
   
  Hardcore TB's simply cannot comprehend the complex nature of this 
Universe.  They lap up one version of the Universe taught by the TM-org and get 
struck in it.  Soon it becomes a dogma.
   
  In MMYyahoogroup, they accused me of being a CIA agent.  I guess being 
stalked by a CIA agent makes them feel important.??
   
  It's important to listen to a wide range of opinions.  It gives you a 
much broader view of the Universe.
   
  My humble opinion, ' TM runs on a black budget'
   
  John Hagelin worked in Area 51.

TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
  Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 17:43:14 -
Subject: [FairfieldLife] The inability to tell opinion from preaching
   
   
  Rick,

In all honesty I think that subsequent followups
to this exchange answered some of the questions
you pose above.

You stated an opinion. I stated one in reply. One
person saw that exchange of two opinions as 
"preaching" to her about how she should live 
her life.

If there is one thing that characterizes the TMer
in my experience (as opposed to seekers in other
spiritual traditions), it is the tendency to view
any opinion other than their own as an attempt to
"preach" to them or "convert" them in some way.

I honestly think that a lot of this comes from the
approach taught to TM teachers ("Every question is
a perfect opportunity for the answer we have already
prepared.") and drummed into the heads of TMers 
in every lecture. TM teachers, like Maharishi, tend
to be *incapable* of saying, "I don't know." They
also (like Maharishi) tend to be dogmatic in their
statements, implying that the answers they give to
every question are the "definitive" answers, the
"correct" answers, the "Truth."

Therefore, when someone who has been exposed to this
for years or decades encounters an opinion that is
different from their own, they tend to think that 
the other person is doing what *they* do when they 
express *their* opinions -- attempting to state that 
their opinions are "definitive, " and "correct" and 
the "Truth," and any other opinion is wrong. 

Some of us aren't. I don't think you do that when
you post your opinions to FFL. I don't think that
Alex does that, or Marek, or Hugo, or many others.
They're just expressing an opinion, one among many.
There is not an *ounce* of trying to "sell" these 
opinions in what they write, or of trying to "con-
vert" others to consider them "Truth." They're just 
opinions.

These are the people I resonate with most on FFL.
Conversations with them are easy and wonderful, 
because nobody is trying to sell anyone anything.
They're just expressing opinions.

And yet many of the diehard TM believers see these
very conversations as provocative, or challenging,
or even as attacks on their beliefs. Go figure.

As a real followup to the questions you posed in
your original post, I think that part of the reason
that FFL degenerates into argumentation and noise
is that so many people were systematically *taught*
to react to any opinion that is different than 
their opinion *as if* it is some kind of attack.
That's the whole rationale behind being "Off The
Program," that these people who have chosen to
believe something "improper" or "wrong" are doing
HARM to the faithful True Believers by holding
these erroneous opinions. They must be *stopped*
from holding them, and if they *can't* be stopped,
they must be Sent Away, where they cannot infect
the True Believers with their heresies.

Why is there so much argumentation on TM forums?
Because TMers have been *taught* to argue for the
supremacy and "correctness" of the TM dogma, and to
actively *suppress* any opinion that deviates from
the TM dogma.

This is my OPINION, and I'm sticking to it. At 
least until my next post, in which I might have a 
different opinion. :-) This OPINION is not intended 
as "preaching" to anyone, or as a suggestion as to
how they should lead their lives. If they get off
on getting offended by opinions that differ from
their own, *by all means* they should continue to
do so. I'll continue to laugh at them, and that
laughter is an opinion in itself. The laughter is 
not a form of preaching; it's just an expression 
of being amused.
   
   

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[FairfieldLife] Re: The inability to tell opinion from preaching

2007-10-30 Thread Richard J. Williams
TurquoiseB wrote: 
> In all honesty I think that subsequent followups
> to this exchange answered some of the questions
> you pose above.
> 
> You stated an opinion. I stated one in reply. One
> person saw that exchange of two opinions as 
> "preaching" to her about how she should live 
> her life.
> 
> If there is one thing that characterizes the TMer
> in my experience (as opposed to seekers in other
> spiritual traditions), it is the tendency to view
> any opinion other than their own as an attempt to
> "preach" to them or "convert" them in some way.
> 
> I honestly think that a lot of this comes from the
> approach taught to TM teachers ("Every question is
> a perfect opportunity for the answer we have already
> prepared.") and drummed into the heads of TMers 
> in every lecture. TM teachers, like Maharishi, tend
> to be *incapable* of saying, "I don't know." They
> also (like Maharishi) tend to be dogmatic in their
> statements, implying that the answers they give to
> every question are the "definitive" answers, the
> "correct" answers, the "Truth."
> 
> Therefore, when someone who has been exposed to this
> for years or decades encounters an opinion that is
> different from their own, they tend to think that 
> the other person is doing what *they* do when they 
> express *their* opinions -- attempting to state that 
> their opinions are "definitive," and "correct" and 
> the "Truth," and any other opinion is wrong. 
> 
> Some of us aren't. I don't think you do that when
> you post your opinions to FFL. I don't think that
> Alex does that, or Marek, or Hugo, or many others.
> They're just expressing an opinion, one among many.
> There is not an *ounce* of trying to "sell" these 
> opinions in what they write, or of trying to "con-
> vert" others to consider them "Truth." They're just 
> opinions.
> 
> These are the people I resonate with most on FFL.
> Conversations with them are easy and wonderful, 
> because nobody is trying to sell anyone anything.
> They're just expressing opinions.
> 
> And yet many of the diehard TM believers see these
> very conversations as provocative, or challenging,
> or even as attacks on their beliefs. Go figure.
> 
> As a real followup to the questions you posed in
> your original post, I think that part of the reason
> that FFL degenerates into argumentation and noise
> is that so many people were systematically *taught*
> to react to any opinion that is different than 
> their opinion *as if* it is some kind of attack.
> That's the whole rationale behind being "Off The
> Program," that these people who have chosen to
> believe something "improper" or "wrong" are doing
> HARM to the faithful True Believers by holding
> these erroneous opinions. They must be *stopped*
> from holding them, and if they *can't* be stopped,
> they must be Sent Away, where they cannot infect
> the True Believers with their heresies.
> 
> Why is there so much argumentation on TM forums?
> Because TMers have been *taught* to argue for the
> supremacy and "correctness" of the TM dogma, and to
> actively *suppress* any opinion that deviates from
> the TM dogma.
> 
> This is my OPINION, and I'm sticking to it. At 
> least until my next post, in which I might have a 
> different opinion. :-) This OPINION is not intended 
> as "preaching" to anyone, or as a suggestion as to
> how they should lead their lives. If they get off
> on getting offended by opinions that differ from
> their own, *by all means* they should continue to
> do so. I'll continue to laugh at them, and that
> laughter is an opinion in itself. The laughter is 
> not a form of preaching; it's just an expression 
> of being amused.
>
You ARE the TMer, Barry. It's very amusing that you 
have an opinion of what the other TMers should be 
thinking. I'm offended that you'd laugh at the other 
TMers for being "Off The Program".