[FairfieldLife] Re: What do they learn?
It's not a local term. I'm using it as the same way as the vedas described the churning of the ocean of milk by the demigods and demons, or rakshasas in Sanskrit. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jimdale827 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sleepwakers, yes, a good term and very fitting. But demons? What does that mean exactly? It sounds like it might be a local term in the USA. Jim. Sleepwalkers may be a nice term to describe some people in the world today. People in Africa are being murdered due to ethnic cleansing. The Jews and Arabs have been killing each other for thousands of years. Terrorists are killing their own people in Iraq for the sake of destabilizing the current government there. Americans are killing babies in abortion clinics by the millions. Are we in Kali Yuga or what? Ignorant might be a better term. At worst, some people are demons!
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What do they learn?
John wrote: Sleepwalkers may be a nice term to describe some people in the world today. People in Africa are being murdered due to ethnic cleansing. The Jews and Arabs have been killing each other for thousands of years. Terrorists are killing their own people in Iraq for the sake of destabilizing the current government there. Americans are killing babies in abortion clinics by the millions. Are we in Kali Yuga or what? Ignorant might be a better term. At worst, some people are demons! How 'bout robots? That would be appropriate these days as they are so programmed by TV as to their reality and turned into good consumers. I know young folks who are such Xbox freaks that they think Microsoft can do no wrong. IOW, fascism in action right before our eyes.
[FairfieldLife] Re: What do they learn?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: John wrote: Sleepwalkers may be a nice term to describe some people in the world today. People in Africa are being murdered due to ethnic cleansing. The Jews and Arabs have been killing each other for thousands of years. Terrorists are killing their own people in Iraq for the sake of destabilizing the current government there. Americans are killing babies in abortion clinics by the millions. Are we in Kali Yuga or what? Ignorant might be a better term. At worst, some people are demons! How 'bout robots? That would be appropriate these days as they are so programmed by TV as to their reality and turned into good consumers. I know young folks who are such Xbox freaks that they think Microsoft can do no wrong. IOW, fascism in action right before our eyes. Biological robots...yeah that's it...biots...Arthur C. Clark wrote about such possibility in his novel, Rendezvous with Rama. If you have not read it, you should do so. This book is not a commentary about the human condition per se, but it's pure science fiction.
[FairfieldLife] Re: What do they learn?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, lisa_pendarvis lisa_pendarvis@ wrote: Higher states is a word I picked up here, so I do not define it, it is not my word to define. If you want to know the reason why I ask it is because I have heard so much talk about meditation but they never tell me what they get exactly and what they learn from it; that is why I ask on a meditation lists. I have never meditated and would not know how to. I have had some spontanious mysterious experiences and wondered whether it was like meditation states, that is all. Lisa. Thanks Lisa. I'm sure some people here can help you gain a perspective of your meditation options. I think spontaneous mysterious experiences are a natural part of being human, but they are not understood very well yet. You will find lots of people who will enthusiastically explain your experience in the context of their own belief systems. But in the end you have to decide what value you are going to put on it for yourself. They may be just that, mysterious experiences. Good luck finding your own meaning for your experiences. Curtis speaks major truth here, Lisa. There is a trend in spiritual traditions -- and *especially* in the Transcendental Meditation/ Maharishi tradition that most here have in common, even if they've left it behind and moved on to something else now -- to trademark their exper- iences of the mysterious or mystical and claim not only that their tradition creates those experiences, but that their version of those experiences is better than anyone else's. (The clear underlying message is that those in that tradition are *themselves* better than anyone else.) IMO most forms of meditation deliver in that they enable the practitioners to begin to exper- ience states of consciousness and perceptions that were *already* going on for them, but that they didn't notice before. It's not a cause-and- effect relationship in my opinion between learn- ing to meditate and these experiences showing up as a result. And it's *definitely* not a cause- and-effect relationship between the experiences and one particular trademarked form of meditation. There is a lot to be said for such experiences of the mystical. But there is also a trap IMO in coming to value them more than practical and pragmatic benefits in life, like being more and more able to deal with other human beings com- passionately and as equals. So my advice, if you ever find yourself inter- ested in learning more about meditation yourself, is to check out the lectures given by the teachers of the trademarked meditation, and listen to the claims made in those lectures. But *then* take a long, hard look at the *practitioners* of the trademarked technique being talked about. Are they the sort of people you'd want to hang with and be friends with? Do they treat others who *don't* practice the same techniques and believe the same things they do as equals, or as someone lesser than themselves, someone to be looked down upon? If the trademarked meditation talks a good talk but the practitioners don't seem to walk the walk of what YOU feel constitutes a better life, run the other way. Hold out for a teaching or a tradition in which the practitioners *embody* what YOU would consider higher states of consciousness, and don't just talk about them. In general, back to your original question, IMO the point of meditation is not to have flashy or mystical or mysterious experiences, but to become more oneself. Meditation is a way of cutting through the crap of thoughts and impressions and all the things we've been *told* we are and allow- ing us to just settle down into what we ARE. That is far more valuable in my opinion than any of the flashy stuff.
[FairfieldLife] Re: What do they learn?
Thank you for all that TurquoiseB, sorry I do not know your name. Yes I agree with what you say there, for I too am more interested in this world not that `world' for it is all connected up anyway, this thing, level of our being, is all about life, and no matter where life exists, it is not about egotism and who has the biggest. The mostest or the greatest whatever, and yes as you say there are a lot of the great I am pretenders around, one in every village I guess :- ) No, this is about love, caring, sharing, and the joy of being; it is not an ego trip. I do not get involved with people like that. Indeed I would much rather be with people who know nothing of these things, or young kids, for they are more real than these wackos you find spouting all kinds of nonsense and acting he big I am; and I need nobody to tell me how to live my life and what to do or think, I am not for sale. As for that experience then I am not looking for it again, once was enough and it worked fine. It is a pity that all people do not have them really for we would certainly be living on a different world here if they did. They all talk about love but do they know it? Do they have it? Do they give it away to the world and people beyond them? That is what this stuff I found was all about not ego trips and the great I am things of this world. The teachers, so called, can go take a running jump. Regards, Lisa. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, lisa_pendarvis lisa_pendarvis@ wrote: Higher states is a word I picked up here, so I do not define it, it is not my word to define. If you want to know the reason why I ask it is because I have heard so much talk about meditation but they never tell me what they get exactly and what they learn from it; that is why I ask on a meditation lists. I have never meditated and would not know how to. I have had some spontanious mysterious experiences and wondered whether it was like meditation states, that is all. Lisa. Thanks Lisa. I'm sure some people here can help you gain a perspective of your meditation options. I think spontaneous mysterious experiences are a natural part of being human, but they are not understood very well yet. You will find lots of people who will enthusiastically explain your experience in the context of their own belief systems. But in the end you have to decide what value you are going to put on it for yourself. They may be just that, mysterious experiences. Good luck finding your own meaning for your experiences. Curtis speaks major truth here, Lisa. There is a trend in spiritual traditions -- and *especially* in the Transcendental Meditation/ Maharishi tradition that most here have in common, even if they've left it behind and moved on to something else now -- to trademark their exper- iences of the mysterious or mystical and claim not only that their tradition creates those experiences, but that their version of those experiences is better than anyone else's. (The clear underlying message is that those in that tradition are *themselves* better than anyone else.) IMO most forms of meditation deliver in that they enable the practitioners to begin to exper- ience states of consciousness and perceptions that were *already* going on for them, but that they didn't notice before. It's not a cause-and- effect relationship in my opinion between learn- ing to meditate and these experiences showing up as a result. And it's *definitely* not a cause- and-effect relationship between the experiences and one particular trademarked form of meditation. There is a lot to be said for such experiences of the mystical. But there is also a trap IMO in coming to value them more than practical and pragmatic benefits in life, like being more and more able to deal with other human beings com- passionately and as equals. So my advice, if you ever find yourself inter- ested in learning more about meditation yourself, is to check out the lectures given by the teachers of the trademarked meditation, and listen to the claims made in those lectures. But *then* take a long, hard look at the *practitioners* of the trademarked technique being talked about. Are they the sort of people you'd want to hang with and be friends with? Do they treat others who *don't* practice the same techniques and believe the same things they do as equals, or as someone lesser than themselves, someone to be looked down upon? If the trademarked meditation talks a good talk but the practitioners don't seem to walk the walk of what YOU feel constitutes a better life, run the other way. Hold out for a teaching or a tradition in which the practitioners *embody* what YOU would consider higher states of consciousness, and don't just talk about them.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What do they learn?
On Jan 4, 2008, at 7:10 PM, curtisdeltablues wrote: I think people both seek and find experiences like you are describing through meditation. Language of subjective experiences is so imprecise that you will find people who feel that their experiences are similar and some who will insist that your experience is X and theirs is of the superior Y variety. But I really liked your quote in another post about the mind being full of tricks Unless you're experientially familiar with advanced meditation practice where the inner instrument is refined and honed, it might appear that there is a Language of subjective experiences that is imprecise. When systematically taught in it's completion, meditation and it's inner world is capable of precise and repeatable precision. An analogy might be, before achievement of meditative stability, it's like trying to observe the stars through a shaky telescope: one cannot continuously ascertain objects. And in some forms of meditation, one never gets beyond basic instability, but are constantly patching their inability to maintain their object by returning to that object time after time after time (year after year). But once meditative stability is achieved, ascertainment can be continuous for hours, the analogy would be like a telescope on an firm foundation which is unmoving which instead of like observing in flickering candlelight, viewing it is as if in the unflickering light of a oil lamp. But make no mistake, in proper and complete meditational training, one becomes quite capable of continuous ascertainment consciousness which can well train ones inner instrument in very precise ways. Precise enough to even establish an inner subjective science--in fact this knowledge is bringing a new science, (called Contemplative Science) into existence. Take a look at the basic outline of the 9 stages of shamatha in the files section and that'll give a basic idea of what I'm talking about.
[FairfieldLife] Re: What do they learn?
Thanks for weighing in Vaj, I know you have given this topic a lot of thought. Your example illustrates my point. I could relate each point to my own experiences in meditation. So an admitted cretin like me, who has never trained in what you might consider to be advanced meditation, feels equally at home with the language. So we are left with language that is so imprecise that I can lay claim to experiences that you surly must doubt that I have had, but are obvious me me from reading the description. So how can we determine if someone else's samadhi is the real one? Now within a system the words are precise descriptions. But when communicating to someone outside the system it breaks down. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jan 4, 2008, at 7:10 PM, curtisdeltablues wrote: I think people both seek and find experiences like you are describing through meditation. Language of subjective experiences is so imprecise that you will find people who feel that their experiences are similar and some who will insist that your experience is X and theirs is of the superior Y variety. But I really liked your quote in another post about the mind being full of tricks Unless you're experientially familiar with advanced meditation practice where the inner instrument is refined and honed, it might appear that there is a Language of subjective experiences that is imprecise. When systematically taught in it's completion, meditation and it's inner world is capable of precise and repeatable precision. An analogy might be, before achievement of meditative stability, it's like trying to observe the stars through a shaky telescope: one cannot continuously ascertain objects. And in some forms of meditation, one never gets beyond basic instability, but are constantly patching their inability to maintain their object by returning to that object time after time after time (year after year). But once meditative stability is achieved, ascertainment can be continuous for hours, the analogy would be like a telescope on an firm foundation which is unmoving which instead of like observing in flickering candlelight, viewing it is as if in the unflickering light of a oil lamp. But make no mistake, in proper and complete meditational training, one becomes quite capable of continuous ascertainment consciousness which can well train ones inner instrument in very precise ways. Precise enough to even establish an inner subjective science--in fact this knowledge is bringing a new science, (called Contemplative Science) into existence. Take a look at the basic outline of the 9 stages of shamatha in the files section and that'll give a basic idea of what I'm talking about.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What do they learn?
On Jan 5, 2008, at 11:40 AM, curtisdeltablues wrote: Thanks for weighing in Vaj, I know you have given this topic a lot of thought. Your example illustrates my point. I could relate each point to my own experiences in meditation. So an admitted cretin like me, who has never trained in what you might consider to be advanced meditation, feels equally at home with the language. Could you give and example of the type of experience you're speaking of? And no, you're not a cretin! So we are left with language that is so imprecise that I can lay claim to experiences that you surly must doubt that I have had, but are obvious me me from reading the description. So how can we determine if someone else's samadhi is the real one? That's just it, the language of meditation and meditative experiences are very precise. But you do have to both learn the various experiences, how they're classified and experience for yourself what they mean. Most, if not all meditative experiences can be classified. Most have little value as a goal though. They're just ornaments. Getting caught up in the ornaments of meditation could be like going to visit a friend and then ending up hanging out staring at the Christmas lights on their house without ever meeting your friends. It just doesn't make a lot of sense. Now within a system the words are precise descriptions. But when communicating to someone outside the system it breaks down. That's what's interesting about Contemplative Science is that it's beginning to establish vocabulary people can understand, agree upon, directly experience and train in. Not that that hasn't existed before, but most are in foreign languages like Sanskrit, Pali or Tibetan and are not often easily translatable. This is no different than the dogmatic priesthood of science really: any speciality or branch of knowledge will have it's own unique terms and lingo (and a priesthood who uses that specialized lingo). If someone asked you how you played so well in concert and you replied I just get my mojo goin', they'd have no idea what you meant if they weren't familiar with voudoun terms used in the blues!
[FairfieldLife] Re: What do they learn?
This is really interesting topic Vaj. I'll have to give it more thought. I also read the article you posted by Wallace. (before zipping off to Parez Hilton's site to check on any Britney updates. I'm deep like that!) I've been spending a little time with Jon Kabat-Zinn's books and occasionally sit for about 15 minutes or so doing a version of his meditation, sort of noticing the breathing like a mantra and letting myself sink into silence. I find that the centering effect lasts and a little goes a long way for how I want to balance my awareness. It feels good, but I can't imagine wanting to do a long program as I did in TM again. I am enjoying approaching meditation from a more value free perspective. I suspect this is the place many long term mediators who still practice but aren't into the belief view it. Not as a path to anything, but just something that feels good. I'm trying to be open minded about meditation having a place in my life as a mental resource, but it is a work in progress and I haven't really made up my mind. I don't connect it with any of my previous beliefs about higher states or experiencing truth or my big Self. I think of it as a channel option of my awareness. But even from this very limited use, I can relate to the 9 stages article as describing what I experience. When I was way into meditation and devoted a lot of time to it, I could delineate very fine aspects of my inner experience. But I have lost that level of interest. I think science has the same problems in psychology with finding language that allows someone to describe internal states. Same in music really. I am currently having interesting discussions with my singing teacher about how I can use my awareness and attention to communicate more in my music. We run into the imprecision of descriptions all the time. Your point about how people are developing a more precise vocabulary is very interesting. I guess it is still a work in progress. Once a person is in a meditative state their ability to feel the meaning of a word is enhanced. I just don't know if it is possible to tell if the person is just applying the words to their experience or are able to tell if they are reaching the described state. What do you think of Jon Kabat-zinn's perspective on secular meditation? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jan 5, 2008, at 11:40 AM, curtisdeltablues wrote: Thanks for weighing in Vaj, I know you have given this topic a lot of thought. Your example illustrates my point. I could relate each point to my own experiences in meditation. So an admitted cretin like me, who has never trained in what you might consider to be advanced meditation, feels equally at home with the language. Could you give and example of the type of experience you're speaking of? And no, you're not a cretin! So we are left with language that is so imprecise that I can lay claim to experiences that you surly must doubt that I have had, but are obvious me me from reading the description. So how can we determine if someone else's samadhi is the real one? That's just it, the language of meditation and meditative experiences are very precise. But you do have to both learn the various experiences, how they're classified and experience for yourself what they mean. Most, if not all meditative experiences can be classified. Most have little value as a goal though. They're just ornaments. Getting caught up in the ornaments of meditation could be like going to visit a friend and then ending up hanging out staring at the Christmas lights on their house without ever meeting your friends. It just doesn't make a lot of sense. Now within a system the words are precise descriptions. But when communicating to someone outside the system it breaks down. That's what's interesting about Contemplative Science is that it's beginning to establish vocabulary people can understand, agree upon, directly experience and train in. Not that that hasn't existed before, but most are in foreign languages like Sanskrit, Pali or Tibetan and are not often easily translatable. This is no different than the dogmatic priesthood of science really: any speciality or branch of knowledge will have it's own unique terms and lingo (and a priesthood who uses that specialized lingo). If someone asked you how you played so well in concert and you replied I just get my mojo goin', they'd have no idea what you meant if they weren't familiar with voudoun terms used in the blues!
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What do they learn?
Hey Curtis: On Jan 5, 2008, at 12:44 PM, curtisdeltablues wrote: This is really interesting topic Vaj. I'll have to give it more thought. I also read the article you posted by Wallace. (before zipping off to Parez Hilton's site to check on any Britney updates. I'm deep like that!) Leave Britney alone! I've been spending a little time with Jon Kabat-Zinn's books and occasionally sit for about 15 minutes or so doing a version of his meditation, sort of noticing the breathing like a mantra and letting myself sink into silence. I find that the centering effect lasts and a little goes a long way for how I want to balance my awareness. It feels good, but I can't imagine wanting to do a long program as I did in TM again. I am enjoying approaching meditation from a more value free perspective. I suspect this is the place many long term mediators who still practice but aren't into the belief view it. Not as a path to anything, but just something that feels good. I'm trying to be open minded about meditation having a place in my life as a mental resource, but it is a work in progress and I haven't really made up my mind. It's a good thing to have no beliefs about meditative tech and it's ensuing states, etc. Being totally completely open and relaxed seems more important to me. I don't connect it with any of my previous beliefs about higher states or experiencing truth or my big Self. I think of it as a channel option of my awareness. But even from this very limited use, I can relate to the 9 stages article as describing what I experience. When I was way into meditation and devoted a lot of time to it, I could delineate very fine aspects of my inner experience. But I have lost that level of interest. I see the whole Pure Consciousness trip as being really the Consciousness skandha or an aggregate arising out of something that is an agreed upon and mutually reinforced illusion. I think science has the same problems in psychology with finding language that allows someone to describe internal states. Same in music really. I am currently having interesting discussions with my singing teacher about how I can use my awareness and attention to communicate more in my music. We run into the imprecision of descriptions all the time. In the case of meditative observation of various stages and stages, it's like any other science in that if you want to do a certain thing, in a truly scientific manner, you have to do so with the correct instruments for what we wish to do. You don't study cells with a magnifying glass, you use a microscope. When you explore meditative states and their ensuing stages, you can look at it with discursive thought--but we do much better if we can have total ascertainment of whatever it is we're grokking at a very stable POV, where discursive BS does not touch or slides off like teflon. The Tibetans say the mind becomes pliable once it attains pure attention, like you'd work a dough in your hands, supple. It's this type of instrument we need to really begin our study. In training the voice I sometimes try to imagine myself taking on the sound of an another instrument or an animal, that way I can use attention in a way that doesn't lose the natural feel of spontaneity. But having said that, I'm by no means a great singer, very average or worse. Your point about how people are developing a more precise vocabulary is very interesting. I guess it is still a work in progress. Once a person is in a meditative state their ability to feel the meaning of a word is enhanced. I just don't know if it is possible to tell if the person is just applying the words to their experience or are able to tell if they are reaching the described state. IME a minimum of words and terms are used. It's kept very simple, but there is a few that are best kept in original lingo, whatever that might be. And some like prana or karma are already common terms. In terms of meditation practice, one is just often given a starting practice, little tech-speak needed if any and if the student wishes nothing further, it ends there. Those who wish to go further might learn more tech-speak, but it's really completely unnecessary if you have good instructors, guiding you based on your experiences, rather than having the sadhana have any special value per se. We grow, our practices change. You don't need to have a cosmology or some huge complement of techno-speak since the practices are really rather simple. Conversely if you do want all the techno-speak you can handle, it's there as well--esp. if you enjoy learning another language. But we also needn't be surprised at such a thing as any specialty is bound to have it's own lingo just as well. What do you think of Jon Kabat-zinn's perspective on secular meditation? I rather enjoy what he has done. I was impressed in him since I first heard of him on the 60 Minutes (or one of those TV magazine
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What do they learn?
I think something I have learned through meditating is my approach to teaching English. I don't want to bore anyone with the details, but I'll say enough about it so that you can get why meditation had anything to do with it. In the forties and fifties of last century, linguistic science exposed grammar as a totally bogus system. Yet we still teach it today all around the world for a variety of interesting reasons, among them the fact that the knowledge of linguists in their ivory towers is one thing, a viable teaching tool that is applicable to the wide range of students (native and foreign) who need to learn the spoken and the written language is quite another; and a translation of the linguists' knowledge into a viable teaching tool has not been widely available. The technical name of the grammar that we still teach all around the world is Latinate grammar. Latinate grammar assumes that language is an artifact, a thing in the world, manifest in speech and in writing, rather than a cognitive event first of all. And this is a crucial difference. Meditation has allowed me to see language as it manifests in the mind and see the laws of form (hence my interest in the British mathematician's work that I've mentioned before) that function as unconscious linguistic signals in the mind of a native speaker, which, in turn, allow him to process the language. Latinate grammar does not reflect the way a native speaker actually processes the language, it does not tell us what these signals are and, indeed, the knowledge it provides about language can easily be shown to be illusory pseudo-knowledge. That much, linguists have shown to a fare-thee-well in the forties and fifties. But my ability to actually see language and its transformations as they arise in the mind is due to meditation, I believe. Now, to me, the proof of the pudding is not only in the dissertations linguists have written about the actual workings of English rather than the bogus notions of Latinate grammar, but in the actual application of what I can observe in the mind to the teaching of English. One of the most difficult situations I can think of to test this would be with speakers of some language as radically different from English as possible. That is why I went to China. I found myself a partner and we tested my approach in a kindergarten, working with children aged three to seven, children whose only exposure to English had been a few songs, such as Old McDonald Had a Farm. We only had 45 minutes per week with the kids, and anyone who's ever tried to learn a foreign language knows how inadequate that would be. Nevertheless, the kids began to generate--that is, create, not spit out from memory--their own 100% error-free English sentences after six months of practice. There is no one else in the world who can deliver results like this. In fact, one of my problems is that these results are so stunning as to defy belief among professionals, and yet, we've got it on video tape. I believe that the reason I was able to devise a classroom protocol for a practice that delivered these results comes from the ability gained through meditation to become an objective observer of ordinarily subconscious linguistic events in the mind. - Original Message From: curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, January 5, 2008 11:44:37 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: What do they learn? This is really interesting topic Vaj. I'll have to give it more thought. I also read the article you posted by Wallace. (before zipping off to Parez Hilton's site to check on any Britney updates. I'm deep like that!) I've been spending a little time with Jon Kabat-Zinn's books and occasionally sit for about 15 minutes or so doing a version of his meditation, sort of noticing the breathing like a mantra and letting myself sink into silence. I find that the centering effect lasts and a little goes a long way for how I want to balance my awareness. It feels good, but I can't imagine wanting to do a long program as I did in TM again. I am enjoying approaching meditation from a more value free perspective. I suspect this is the place many long term mediators who still practice but aren't into the belief view it. Not as a path to anything, but just something that feels good. I'm trying to be open minded about meditation having a place in my life as a mental resource, but it is a work in progress and I haven't really made up my mind. I don't connect it with any of my previous beliefs about higher states or experiencing truth or my big Self. I think of it as a channel option of my awareness. But even from this very limited use, I can relate to the 9 stages article as describing what I experience. When I was way into meditation and devoted a lot of time to it, I could delineate very fine aspects of my
[FairfieldLife] Re: What do they learn?
One is surrounded by zombies who haven't realized reality but occasionally you run into someone who is aware. This doesn't mean that the zombies are bad people but spend any amount of time with them and they can drag you down. Not to be overly PC about this ... but we really prefer the terms life-force challenged or vertically dead. Thanks for your consideration and sorry about the brain-eating thing. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: lisa_pendarvis wrote: I would be interested to hear what people learn by way of meditation. If they come to learn all kinds of different things then what could be said to be perhaps the most profound and illuminating thing which they learn, and as to how that comes to help shape their lives and understanding. Lisa. It's not so much learning as the experience of enlightenment. I don't practice TM anymore but instead advanced tantric techniques under the guidance a bona fide tantric guru who lives in the US. To me (and as explained by many Indian gurus, mainly those not looking to make big bucks) enlightenment is simple. It is having shakti in your awareness all the time even in sleep. Shakti is what MMY refers to when he says lively awareness or consciousness. This is a state of samadhi and since my tradition is Kali the intellectual experience one has is the peeling away of reality just like peeling away the layers of an onion. After a while the world is just a ghost or like an image projected on smoke. One is surrounded by zombies who haven't realized reality but occasionally you run into someone who is aware. This doesn't mean that the zombies are bad people but spend any amount of time with them and they can drag you down. But you have to live with that as you can't change the world overnight. Intellectually you also become aware that the universe is just one thing all interconnected. Call that God if you like. This does not make one passive. I certainly post and argue politics and other non spiritual issues here all the time but that was Rick's intention to have a place where people with a common background could talk about stuff not just meditation. We always hear of those gurus who reaching samadhi become somewhat dysfunctional and need to be fed and taken care of. Either that or they're crazy (sometimes I believe the latter). I would say if you are nearing that stage you might as well stop sadhana and remain functional as you have nothing to worry about when death arrives at your door.
[FairfieldLife] Re: What do they learn?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: One is surrounded by zombies who haven't realized reality but occasionally you run into someone who is aware. This doesn't mean that the zombies are bad people but spend any amount of time with them and they can drag you down. Not to be overly PC about this ... but we really prefer the terms life-force challenged or vertically dead. Thanks for your consideration and sorry about the brain-eating thing. Biggest laugh of the day, Curtis. :-) Elitism is elitism, wherever you find it.
[FairfieldLife] Re: What do they learn?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Marek Reavis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just reacting to this race as the primate that I am, Obama's got it all over the rest of the crowd. You said it. Only ape in the crowd with a pair.
[FairfieldLife] Re: What do they learn?
Classic! Thanks, Curtis. Plus as long as I'm commenting on your post I should also say how much I enjoyed Judy's phrase about not carrying a brief for Billy Graham -- I love the sound of that in a sentence, sounds very British. That, and Shemp's reference to Obama as looking like an underfed undertaker, which is a great word image. Even though he apparently meant it to be part of a putdown of Obama, it's a good word turn. Obama *is* a bit scrawny but it's a good leaness that visually conveys a lot of energy to me. Just reacting to this race as the primate that I am, Obama's got it all over the rest of the crowd. Okay, done with my grooming here. Marek ** --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: One is surrounded by zombies who haven't realized reality but occasionally you run into someone who is aware. This doesn't mean that the zombies are bad people but spend any amount of time with them and they can drag you down. Not to be overly PC about this ... but we really prefer the terms life-force challenged or vertically dead. Thanks for your consideration and sorry about the brain-eating thing. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: lisa_pendarvis wrote: I would be interested to hear what people learn by way of meditation. If they come to learn all kinds of different things then what could be said to be perhaps the most profound and illuminating thing which they learn, and as to how that comes to help shape their lives and understanding. Lisa. It's not so much learning as the experience of enlightenment. I don't practice TM anymore but instead advanced tantric techniques under the guidance a bona fide tantric guru who lives in the US. To me (and as explained by many Indian gurus, mainly those not looking to make big bucks) enlightenment is simple. It is having shakti in your awareness all the time even in sleep. Shakti is what MMY refers to when he says lively awareness or consciousness. This is a state of samadhi and since my tradition is Kali the intellectual experience one has is the peeling away of reality just like peeling away the layers of an onion. After a while the world is just a ghost or like an image projected on smoke. One is surrounded by zombies who haven't realized reality but occasionally you run into someone who is aware. This doesn't mean that the zombies are bad people but spend any amount of time with them and they can drag you down. But you have to live with that as you can't change the world overnight. Intellectually you also become aware that the universe is just one thing all interconnected. Call that God if you like. This does not make one passive. I certainly post and argue politics and other non spiritual issues here all the time but that was Rick's intention to have a place where people with a common background could talk about stuff not just meditation. We always hear of those gurus who reaching samadhi become somewhat dysfunctional and need to be fed and taken care of. Either that or they're crazy (sometimes I believe the latter). I would say if you are nearing that stage you might as well stop sadhana and remain functional as you have nothing to worry about when death arrives at your door.
[FairfieldLife] Re: What do they learn?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: One is surrounded by zombies who haven't realized reality but occasionally you run into someone who is aware. This doesn't mean that the zombies are bad people but spend any amount of time with them and they can drag you down. Not to be overly PC about this ... but we really prefer the terms life-force challenged or vertically dead. Thanks for your consideration and sorry about the brain-eating thing. Biggest laugh of the day, Curtis. :-) Elitism is elitism, wherever you find it. Says the most fervent elitist on the forum.
[FairfieldLife] Re: What do they learn?
This may well seem like elitism but it is not, unfortunately it is true. As it has been said from antiquity, those who have not known their self have known nothing of lasting worth, but those who have known their self have at the same instant known the depths of all things. What it does not say, among so much else, is that those who have known their self will walk a lonely path on a world like this is as yet. However, one could be a little more tactful than calling people who have not known their self zombies and the walking dead. Actually millions of people who have not known their self are some of the best people who have ever walked the face of the earth, and still do. Not knowing their self is no crime nor is it due to stupidity. It is in large measure due to societies brainwashing of young children for day one of landing here. There are any vested interests on this world ad love and truth are perhaps bottom of the list of this worlds priorities right now. The lady Lisa was correct but perhaps seemed too polite to say it, she certainly sounds like she knows, but then again, such folks are around lurking in the shadows and invariably saying nothing, for what is the point in a world which does not want to hear, let alone know. Jim. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: One is surrounded by zombies who haven't realized reality but occasionally you run into someone who is aware. This doesn't mean that the zombies are bad people but spend any amount of time with them and they can drag you down. Not to be overly PC about this ... but we really prefer the terms life-force challenged or vertically dead. Thanks for your consideration and sorry about the brain-eating thing. Biggest laugh of the day, Curtis. :-) Elitism is elitism, wherever you find it. Says the most fervent elitist on the forum.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What do they learn?
curtisdeltablues wrote: One is surrounded by zombies who haven't realized reality but occasionally you run into someone who is aware. This doesn't mean that the zombies are bad people but spend any amount of time with them and they can drag you down. Not to be overly PC about this ... but we really prefer the terms life-force challenged or vertically dead. Thanks for your consideration and sorry about the brain-eating thing. If everyone were not life-force challenged there would be no need to teach meditation. On can certainly adopt a cool facade that everyone is okay but if that were true everyone would get along here wouldn't they? So is Don't Worry Be Happy on your song list? :-D
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What do they learn?
On Jan 5, 2008, at 2:46 PM, Vaj wrote: I rather enjoy what he has done. I was impressed in him since I first heard of him on the 60 Minutes (or one of those TV magazine shows) did a segment on him. Since that show (probably a decade ago) he's now specializing in more high-end customers. He was even more interesting when I saw who his parents were. It was actually Bill Moyers Healing and the Mind.
[FairfieldLife] Re: What do they learn?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jimdale827 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This may well seem like elitism but it is not, unfortunately it is true. As it has been said from antiquity, those who have not known their self have known nothing of lasting worth, but those who have known their self have at the same instant known the depths of all things. What it does not say, among so much else, is that those who have known their self will walk a lonely path on a world like this is as yet. Bellies With Stars THE SNEETCHES by Dr. Suess Now the Star-bellied Sneetches had bellies with stars. The Plain-bellied Sneetches had none upon thars. The stars weren't so big; they were really quite small. You would think such a thing wouldn't matter at all. But because they had stars, all the Star-bellied Sneetches would brag, We're the best kind of Sneetch on the beaches. With their snoots in the air, they would sniff and they'd snort, We'll have nothing to do with the plain-bellied sort. And whenever they met some, when they were out walking, they'd hike right on past them without even talking. When the Star-bellied children went out to play ball, could the Plain-bellies join in their game? Not at all! You could only play ball if your bellies had stars, and the Plain-bellied children had none upon thars. When the Star-bellied Sneetches had frankfurter roasts, or picnics or parties or marshmallow toasts, they never invited the Plain-bellied Sneetches. Left them out cold in the dark of the beaches. Kept them away; never let them come near, and that's how they treated them year after year. Then one day, it seems, while the Plain-bellied Sneetches were moping, just moping alone on the beaches, sitting there, wishing their bellies had stars, up zipped a stranger in the strangest of cars. My friends, he announced in a voice clear and keen, My name is Sylvester McMonkey McBean. I've heard of your troubles; I've heard you're unhappy. But I can fix that; I'm the fix-it-up chappie. I've come here to help you; I have what you need. My prices are low, and I work with great speed, and my work is one hundred per cent guaranteed. Then quickly, Sylvester McMonkey McBean put together a very peculiar machine. Then he said, You want stars like a Star-bellied Sneetch? My friends, you can have them . . . . for three dollars each. Just hand me your money and climb on aboard. They clambered inside and the big machine roared. It bonked. It clonked. It jerked. It berked. It bopped them around, but the thing really worked. When the Plain-bellied Sneetches popped out, they had stars! They actually did, they had stars upon thars! Then they yelled at the ones who had stars from the start, We're exactly like you; you can't tell us apart. We're all just the same now, you snooty old smarties. Now we can come to your frankfurter parties! Good grief! groaned the one who had stars from the first. We're still the best Sneetches, and they are the worst. But how in the world will we know, they all frowned, if which kind is what or the other way 'round? Then up stepped McBean with a very sly wink, and he said, Things are not quite as bad as you think. You don't know who's who, that is perfectly true. But come with me, friends, do you know what I'll do? I'll make you again the best Sneetches on beaches, and all it will cost you is ten dollars eaches. Belly stars are no longer in style, said McBean. What you need is a trip through my stars-off machine. This wondrous contraption will take off your stars, so you won't look like Sneetches who have them on thars. That handy machine, working very precisely, removed all the stars from their bellies quite nicely. Then, with snoots in the air, they paraded about. They opened their beaks and proceeded to shout, We now know who's who, and there isn't a doubt, the best kind of Sneetches are Sneetches without. Then, of course those with stars all got frightfully mad. To be wearing a star now was frightfully bad. Then, of course old Sylvester McMonkey McBean invited them into his stars-off machine. Then, of course from then on, you can probably guess, things really got into a horrible mess. All the rest of the day on those wild screaming beaches, the Fix-it-up-Chappie was fixing up Sneetches. Off again, on again, in again, out again, through the machine and back round about again, still paying money, still running through, changing their stars every minute or two, until neither the Plain- nor the Star-bellies knew whether this one was that one or that one was this one or which one was what one or what one was who! Then, when every last cent of their money was spent, the Fix-It-Up-Chappie packed up and he went. And he laughed as he drove in his car up the beach, They never will learn; no, you can't teach a Sneetch! But McBean was quite wrong, I'm quite happy to say, the Sneetches got quite a bit smarter that day. That day, they decided that Sneetches are Sneetches, and no kind of Sneetch
[FairfieldLife] Re: What do they learn?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: curtisdeltablues wrote: One is surrounded by zombies who haven't realized reality but occasionally you run into someone who is aware. This doesn't mean that the zombies are bad people but spend any amount of time with them and they can drag you down. Not to be overly PC about this ... but we really prefer the terms life-force challenged or vertically dead. Thanks for your consideration and sorry about the brain-eating thing. If everyone were not life-force challenged there would be no need to teach meditation. I don't think we share the same definition of life force. In my world exercise and my interests increase mine. I wouldn't include this in my list of meditation's benifits. On can certainly adopt a cool facade that everyone is okay but if that were true everyone would get along here wouldn't they? I can't believe it took this long for someone to notice my cool facade. I've been dropping hints like crazy! I mostly do find this to be true though. I don't think people not getting along is evidence of people not being OK. It seems to be a choice of what parts I pay attention to, which is probably how people deal with my nonsense also. You wrote an interesting post about your experiences in meditation but I chose to focus on the part that made me feel weird. My choice. But I don't define you by this attitude, I enjoy your posts. But this POV would be very limiting for me. I choose to view people as non zombie until they reach for my cranium with a spoon in their hand. I learn from people all day long and can't imagine living in a world where people are not seen in a more positive way. (with the occasional objectified view of certain hotties thrown in occasionally...more than occasionally...all the freak'n time OK!) So is Don't Worry Be Happy on your song list? :-D I'm trying to pick my battles carefully. To get all serious on your ass... the passing of a loved one a few years ago raised the bar on what I consider battle worthy. The list is getting shorter by the day. But you can always wind up my moter with something that sounds as if you are looking down on people generally. Can you see why someone would view your phrase that way?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What do they learn?
Who were his parents, Vaj? I read an article on him in a Buddhist rag, can't
remember the name of it, but I liked what I read too.
- Original Message
From: Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, January 5, 2008 5:27:18 PM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What do they learn?
On Jan 5, 2008, at 2:46 PM, Vaj wrote:
I rather enjoy what he has done. I was impressed in him since I first heard of
him on the 60 Minutes (or one of those TV magazine shows) did a segment on him.
Since that show (probably a decade ago) he's now specializing in more high-end
customers. He was even more interesting when I saw who his parents were.
It was actually Bill Moyers Healing and the Mind.
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What do they learn?
curtisdeltablues wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: curtisdeltablues wrote: One is surrounded by zombies who haven't realized reality but occasionally you run into someone who is aware. This doesn't mean that the zombies are bad people but spend any amount of time with them and they can drag you down. Not to be overly PC about this ... but we really prefer the terms life-force challenged or vertically dead. Thanks for your consideration and sorry about the brain-eating thing. If everyone were not life-force challenged there would be no need to teach meditation. I don't think we share the same definition of life force. In my world exercise and my interests increase mine. I wouldn't include this in my list of meditation's benifits. On can certainly adopt a cool facade that everyone is okay but if that were true everyone would get along here wouldn't they? I can't believe it took this long for someone to notice my cool facade. I've been dropping hints like crazy! I mostly do find this to be true though. I don't think people not getting along is evidence of people not being OK. It seems to be a choice of what parts I pay attention to, which is probably how people deal with my nonsense also. You wrote an interesting post about your experiences in meditation but I chose to focus on the part that made me feel weird. My choice. But I don't define you by this attitude, I enjoy your posts. But this POV would be very limiting for me. I choose to view people as non zombie until they reach for my cranium with a spoon in their hand. I would bet like many other folks it takes less than that. Most the time too I look at the good in people but when you stand back and look at what the masses do, ugh! Turq may express a disdain for elitism but what about his post the other day about Americans and voting? I've never read a guru that didn't express some disdain for the masses and their ignorance but that's their job: to pick the masses up by their ears and raise their consciousness. And I've also never met a meditator (except really spaced out bliss ninnies) who though tried to see the good in everybody got pissed at folks sometimes. Nobody is that perfect. I learn from people all day long and can't imagine living in a world where people are not seen in a more positive way. (with the occasional objectified view of certain hotties thrown in occasionally...more than occasionally...all the freak'n time OK!) So is Don't Worry Be Happy on your song list? :-D I'm trying to pick my battles carefully. To get all serious on your ass... the passing of a loved one a few years ago raised the bar on what I consider battle worthy. The list is getting shorter by the day. But you can always wind up my moter with something that sounds as if you are looking down on people generally. Can you see why someone would view your phrase that way? I was just kidding. It was a musician's joke.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What do they learn?
On Jan 5, 2008, at 6:30 PM, Angela Mailander wrote: Who were his parents, Vaj? I read an article on him in a Buddhist rag, can't remember the name of it, but I liked what I read too. Actually it was his dad and his wife's dad were interesting folks: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elvin_Kabat one of the founding fathers of modern quantitative immunochemistry http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Howard_Zinn Howard Zinn (born August 24, 1922) is an American historian, political scientist, social critic, activist and playwright, best known as author of the bestseller[5] , A People's History of the United States. Zinn's philosophy incorporates ideas from Marxism, anarchism, socialism, and social democracy. Since the 1960s, he has been active in the Civil Rights and anti-war movements in the United States. The author of some 20 books, Zinn is currently Professor Emeritus in the Political Science Department atBoston University. He lives in the Auburndale neighborhood of Newton, Massachusetts with his wife, the artist Roslyn Zinn.[6] [7] The couple have two children, Myla and Jeff, and five grandchildren. Both artist and editor, Roslyn has had a role in editing all of Zinn's books and many of his articles. They are both avid Red Soxfans.[8] His mom was an art student.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What do they learn?
That guy. I loved A People's History of the United States. Thanks, Vaj.
- Original Message
From: Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, January 5, 2008 6:54:28 PM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What do they learn?
On Jan 5, 2008, at 6:30 PM, Angela Mailander wrote:
Who were his parents, Vaj? I read an article on him in a Buddhist rag, can't
remember the name of it, but I liked what I read too.
Actually it was his dad and his wife's dad were interesting folks:
http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Elvin_Kabat
one of the founding fathers of modern quantitative immunochemistry
http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Howard_Zinn
Howard Zinn (born August 24, 1922) is an American historian, political
scientist, social critic, activist and playwright, best known as author of the
bestseller[5] , A People's History of the United States.
Zinn's philosophy incorporates ideas from Marxism, anarchism, socialism, and
social democracy. Since the 1960s, he has been active in the Civil Rights and
anti-war movements in the United States.
The author of some 20 books, Zinn is currently Professor Emeritus in the
Political Science Department atBoston University. He lives in the Auburndale
neighborhood of Newton, Massachusetts with his wife, the artist Roslyn Zinn.[6]
[7] The couple have two children, Myla and Jeff, and five grandchildren. Both
artist and editor, Roslyn has had a role in editing all of Zinn's books and
many of his articles. They are both avid Red Soxfans.[8]
His mom was an art student.
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What do they learn?
jimdale827 wrote: This may well seem like elitism but it is not, unfortunately it is true. As it has been said from antiquity, those who have not known their self have known nothing of lasting worth, but those who have known their self have at the same instant known the depths of all things. What it does not say, among so much else, is that those who have known their self will walk a lonely path on a world like this is as yet. However, one could be a little more tactful than calling people who have not known their self zombies and the walking dead. Actually millions of people who have not known their self are some of the best people who have ever walked the face of the earth, and still do. Not knowing their self is no crime nor is it due to stupidity. It is in large measure due to societies brainwashing of young children for day one of landing here. There are any vested interests on this world ad love and truth are perhaps bottom of the list of this worlds priorities right now. The lady Lisa was correct but perhaps seemed too polite to say it, she certainly sounds like she knows, but then again, such folks are around lurking in the shadows and invariably saying nothing, for what is the point in a world which does not want to hear, let alone know. Jim. I used the term zombies for humor. MMY called them sleepwalkers. Sorry if I offended any zombies here. :)
[FairfieldLife] Re: What do they learn?
But this POV would be very limiting for me. I choose to view people as non zombie until they reach for my cranium with a spoon in their hand. I would bet like many other folks it takes less than that. Most the time too I look at the good in people but when you stand back and look at what the masses do, ugh! I understand your point better now. Turq may express a disdain for elitism but what about his post the other day about Americans and voting? Turq seems to have a pretty dim view of Americans and I don't share it. I dig Americans because we have people from all over the world. At least the part of America where I live. However we tend to be a super religious nation and I don't dig that aspect. To paraphrase Johny Gray's point on partners, every country has a few things wrong with it. You just have to pick which ones. I've never read a guru that didn't express some disdain for the masses and their ignorance but that's their job: to pick the masses up by their ears and raise their consciousness. I haven't seen anybody that I would call a guru. Most of the ear grabbers just seem like self important fools to me. Most people I know are just struggling with the challenges of their personal lives and don't need to be picked up by anyone but themselves. OTOH I'm the first to decry the popularity of superstitions, so I may be being a bit of a hypocrite here. I do believe there are smarter and dumber people, but on the big questions of life and death, I think we are all in the same ignorant boat. Some admit it and some don't. And I've also never met a meditator (except really spaced out bliss ninnies) who though tried to see the good in everybody got pissed at folks sometimes. Nobody is that perfect. Agreed. Specifically I can get pissed off. About people generally, I am more generous. Isn't that convenient? It may also be BS because I can generalize with the best of them also, so I'm not exactly standing on any higher ground. Nice rap, thanks for hanging out.
[FairfieldLife] Re: What do they learn?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: jimdale827 wrote: This may well seem like elitism but it is not, unfortunately it is true. As it has been said from antiquity, those who have not known their self have known nothing of lasting worth, but those who have known their self have at the same instant known the depths of all things. What it does not say, among so much else, is that those who have known their self will walk a lonely path on a world like this is as yet. However, one could be a little more tactful than calling people who have not known their self zombies and the walking dead. Actually millions of people who have not known their self are some of the best people who have ever walked the face of the earth, and still do. Not knowing their self is no crime nor is it due to stupidity. It is in large measure due to societies brainwashing of young children for day one of landing here. There are any vested interests on this world ad love and truth are perhaps bottom of the list of this worlds priorities right now. The lady Lisa was correct but perhaps seemed too polite to say it, she certainly sounds like she knows, but then again, such folks are around lurking in the shadows and invariably saying nothing, for what is the point in a world which does not want to hear, let alone know. Jim. I used the term zombies for humor. MMY called them sleepwalkers. Sorry if I offended any zombies here. :) Sleepwalkers may be a nice term to describe some people in the world today. People in Africa are being murdered due to ethnic cleansing. The Jews and Arabs have been killing each other for thousands of years. Terrorists are killing their own people in Iraq for the sake of destabilizing the current government there. Americans are killing babies in abortion clinics by the millions. Are we in Kali Yuga or what? Ignorant might be a better term. At worst, some people are demons!
[FairfieldLife] Re: What do they learn?
Sleepwakers, yes, a good term and very fitting. But demons? What does that mean exactly? It sounds like it might be a local term in the USA. Jim. Sleepwalkers may be a nice term to describe some people in the world today. People in Africa are being murdered due to ethnic cleansing. The Jews and Arabs have been killing each other for thousands of years. Terrorists are killing their own people in Iraq for the sake of destabilizing the current government there. Americans are killing babies in abortion clinics by the millions. Are we in Kali Yuga or what? Ignorant might be a better term. At worst, some people are demons!
[FairfieldLife] Re: What do they learn?
Hi, well, higher states of consciousness are mentioned, so perhaps you could tell me about them and what it is like and what it reveals and how one gets in and out of that state of conconsciousness. Lisa. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of lisa_pendarvis Sent: Friday, January 04, 2008 2:35 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] What do they learn? I would be interested to hear what people learn by way of meditation. If they come to learn all kinds of different things then what could be said to be perhaps the most profound and illuminating thing which they learn, and as to how that comes to help shape their lives and understanding. Welcome Lisa, a lot of topics are discussed on this board, but we all have a meditation background. That may not be obvious at first, but stick around and you'll see some serious responses to your question. Feel free to follow up with more specific questions, and those may stir up discussions as well. Rick (the moderator, who seldom moderates) No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1208 - Release Date: 1/3/2008 3:52 PM
[FairfieldLife] Re: What do they learn?
From a great distance, a circle may seem to be merely a gray colored disk, but upon approaching it, one might find that it is, instead, a yin-yang symbol that had been blended by the eye. Just so, if one takes a thought and attends it repeatedly -- that is -- approaches the object (thought) mentally -- one is putting more of the awareness available upon that object while thusly withholding that awareness from other possible foci. Meditating brings one closer to objects of consciousness which, as they become more observable, can take up one's entire field of view as other objects of consciousness (the chair one sits in for instance, other thoughts, sensations, etc.) become less and less likely to grab one's attention. Each concept, idea, mantra, sound, whatever, is like a yin-yang symbol seen from a great distance. As one's mentation gets refined and subtle, the breath also quiets down and this indicates that the body is doing less work, and the mind is more focused while doing less work (not attending other objects of consciousness.) In the quietest moments of meditation, whole worlds can become as obviously not merely gray -- worlds like morality or sacredness or candle flame which seem to be easily defined but become complex and mystifying when attended to enough for the polarities inherent in all objects become observable. As one gets used to two sides to the story of every object of consciousness, one begins to identify with that place where both sides can be seen simultaneously. This is called witnessing and is different from paying attention to a particular quality of a polarization's spectrum. The mind does attending, the soul does witnessing. Certainty is the ego's drug, and meditation reveals the ever-ness of every-thingness. No object can be completely understood since each is a construct of consciousness which is infinitely able to delineate every more subtleties about anything. Thus, as Bramha found by being unable to fathom the depths of the lotus stalk, unfathomable is any object of consciousness, and the mind becomes less addicted to certainties as this fact of existence's polarities becomes clear, and the ego begins to get over wanting to control existence with concepts since each concept is a slippery tool that cannot be handled perfectly. This is experienced as I don't know my next thought, nor have I ever known what my next thought will be, yet they come perfectly formed from a source that can only be 'me.' As the me becomes more seen, the products of me-ness become less able to beguile and attract the mind, as the ego begins to see that it cannot store its treasures where moth and rust doth corrupt. The me becomes the new addiction of the ego, and from that focus, from that identification, the ego can be left behind where it is completely satisfied by the me. Leaving behind the ego, identification by the human's mind switches to Absolute silence beyond silence -- that which cannot be held in a mind. The ego is seen as a scant and almost insignificant process of mind and unworthy of hanging one's hat upon. The above are the only reasons to meditate. If you think meditation is going to make you richer, smarter, wiser, happier, sweeter, more social, whatever, you'd be quite wrong. Every tradition says to not live for the fruits of one's actions, but to abide in the goodness that is manifesting through one's nervous system and let go let God. Whatever use one's mind might have to God, that is for God to decide, and when one gets out of God's way, He/She does just that, but first the ego must surrender its stolen role of being the doer, the thinker, the sentience of the human experience. The above is pretty dense conceptualization. It took me years of intellectually studying this tale, before it became, intellectually, clear to me. This is merely the ego being smug and having nice thought-buckets to toss enlightenment into. True freedom from egoic disease means stopping identification with the products of the intellect alsosince each product will be a processing of the nervous system and identification with a process must end when the process ends -- at the death of the human body. Moth and rust, see? The above, if understood, is not enlightenment -- it is merely an egoic dance that harmonizes with the hoped-for freedom from attachments-of-identification-with-objects-of-consciousness. But, such an understanding can lead to the motivation to continue to meditate until true freedom, by grace, washes one away from all earthly shackles. Edg --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, lisa_pendarvis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would be interested to hear what people learn by way of meditation. If they come to learn all kinds of different things then what could be said to be perhaps the most profound and illuminating thing which they learn, and as to how that comes to help shape their lives and understanding. Lisa.
[FairfieldLife] Re: What do they learn?
Well, I have always felt that way :- ) But serioulsy what I meant was what is that realm of this higher state of consciousness which they reach like - what does it look like, is it scary getting there? and all that kind of thing. Lisa. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, aztjbailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Your acceptance of what *is* takes you to a deeper level where your inner state as well as your sense of self no longer depend on the mind's judgements of good or bad. When you say yes to the isness of life, when you accept this moment as it is, you can feel a sense of spaciousness within you that is deeply peaceful. On the surface, you may still be happy when it is sunny and not so happy when its rainy; you may be happy at winning a million dollars and unhappy at losing all of your posessions. Neither happiness or unhappiness, however, go all that deep anymore. They are ripples on the surface of your Being. The backgroud peace within you remains undisturbed regardless of the nature of the outside condition. The yes to what *is* reveals a dimension of depth within you that is dependent neither on external conditions nor on the internal conditions of constantly fluctuating thoughts and emotions. ---Eckhart Tolle, Stillness Speaks, page 66-67 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, lisa_pendarvis lisa_pendarvis@ wrote: I would be interested to hear what people learn by way of meditation. If they come to learn all kinds of different things then what could be said to be perhaps the most profound and illuminating thing which they learn, and as to how that comes to help shape their lives and understanding. Lisa.
[FairfieldLife] Re: What do they learn?
Your acceptance of what *is* takes you to a deeper level where your inner state as well as your sense of self no longer depend on the mind's judgements of good or bad. When you say yes to the isness of life, when you accept this moment as it is, you can feel a sense of spaciousness within you that is deeply peaceful. On the surface, you may still be happy when it is sunny and not so happy when its rainy; you may be happy at winning a million dollars and unhappy at losing all of your posessions. Neither happiness or unhappiness, however, go all that deep anymore. They are ripples on the surface of your Being. The backgroud peace within you remains undisturbed regardless of the nature of the outside condition. The yes to what *is* reveals a dimension of depth within you that is dependent neither on external conditions nor on the internal conditions of constantly fluctuating thoughts and emotions. ---Eckhart Tolle, Stillness Speaks, page 66-67 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, lisa_pendarvis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would be interested to hear what people learn by way of meditation. If they come to learn all kinds of different things then what could be said to be perhaps the most profound and illuminating thing which they learn, and as to how that comes to help shape their lives and understanding. Lisa.
[FairfieldLife] Re: What do they learn?
Lisa wrote: I would be interested to hear what people learn by way of meditation. The Confessions of a Taco Eater: http://www.rwilliams.us/archives/confessions.htm
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What do they learn?
That sounds right on. When I learned to meditate on my sixth birthday in 1946,
the first question my teacher asked me was, Today you're six, yesterday you
were five--feel any different? My answer was no, not really. And he said,
Well, that's the reality. That feeling of 'no difference' is the real you and
it never changes. So I knew that when I was six; even so, it took me until
this morning to learn it. And next year, if I'm still among the working stiffs
of this planet, I'll know it more deeply yet. I've had fabulously flashy
experiences, but they come and go, they are not that deep reality that is
dependably unchanging.
And here's another thing I learned. If someone calls me a heinous bitch, I
know the truth of it down to the ground. If someone calls me a great soul, I
know the truth of that too. Same with being called an abysmal fool.
When I write, I feel, as many writers do, that I am merely taking dictation
from some being greater than me--and yet, who else is there?
- Original Message
From: aztjbailey [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, January 4, 2008 3:19:22 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: What do they learn?
Your acceptance of what *is* takes you to a deeper level where
your
inner state as well as your sense of self no longer depend on the
mind's judgements of good or bad.
When you say yes to the isness of life, when you accept this
moment as it is, you can feel a sense of spaciousness within you that
is deeply peaceful.
On the surface, you may still be happy when it is sunny and not so
happy when its rainy; you may be happy at winning a million dollars
and unhappy at losing all of your posessions. Neither happiness or
unhappiness, however, go all that deep anymore. They are ripples on
the surface of your Being. The backgroud peace within you remains
undisturbed regardless of the nature of the outside condition.
The yes to what *is* reveals a dimension of depth within you that
is dependent neither on external conditions nor on the internal
conditions of constantly fluctuating thoughts and emotions.
---Eckhart Tolle, Stillness Speaks, page 66-67
--- In FairfieldLife@ yahoogroups. com, lisa_pendarvis
lisa_pendarvis@ ... wrote:
I would be interested to hear what people learn by way of
meditation. If
they come to learn all kinds of different things then what could be
said
to be perhaps the most profound and illuminating thing which they
learn,
and as to how that comes to help shape their lives and
understanding.
Lisa.
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[FairfieldLife] Re: What do they learn?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, lisa_pendarvis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Higher states is a word I picked up here, so I do not define it, it is not my word to define. If you want to know the reason why I ask it is because I have heard so much talk about meditation but they never tell me what they get exactly and what they learn from it; that is why I ask on a meditation lists. I have never meditated and would not know how to. I have had some spontanious mysterious experiences and wondered whether it was like meditation states, that is all. Lisa. What is a mystical experience to you ?
[FairfieldLife] Re: What do they learn?
Higher states is a word I picked up here, so I do not define it, it is not my word to define. If you want to know the reason why I ask it is because I have heard so much talk about meditation but they never tell me what they get exactly and what they learn from it; that is why I ask on a meditation lists. I have never meditated and would not know how to. I have had some spontanious mysterious experiences and wondered whether it was like meditation states, that is all. Lisa. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, lisa_pendarvis lisa_pendarvis@ wrote: Well, I have always felt that way :- ) But serioulsy what I meant was what is that realm of this higher state of consciousness which they reach like - what does it look like, is it scary getting there? and all that kind of thing. Lisa. I'll bet you will get some more focused responses if you introduce your own experience and interests a bit. Meditation and the states it can induce are pretty broad topics. Speaking for myself I need to feel as if I am communicating with a person who is willing to present and share their own POV here. What makes you ask your question? might be a good place to start. What do you know about meditation and how do you define higher states? is another. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, aztjbailey aztjbailey@ wrote: Your acceptance of what *is* takes you to a deeper level where your inner state as well as your sense of self no longer depend on the mind's judgements of good or bad. When you say yes to the isness of life, when you accept this moment as it is, you can feel a sense of spaciousness within you that is deeply peaceful. On the surface, you may still be happy when it is sunny and not so happy when its rainy; you may be happy at winning a million dollars and unhappy at losing all of your posessions. Neither happiness or unhappiness, however, go all that deep anymore. They are ripples on the surface of your Being. The backgroud peace within you remains undisturbed regardless of the nature of the outside condition. The yes to what *is* reveals a dimension of depth within you that is dependent neither on external conditions nor on the internal conditions of constantly fluctuating thoughts and emotions. ---Eckhart Tolle, Stillness Speaks, page 66-67 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, lisa_pendarvis lisa_pendarvis@ wrote: I would be interested to hear what people learn by way of meditation. If they come to learn all kinds of different things then what could be said to be perhaps the most profound and illuminating thing which they learn, and as to how that comes to help shape their lives and understanding. Lisa.
[FairfieldLife] Re: What do they learn?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, lisa_pendarvis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, I have always felt that way :- ) But serioulsy what I meant was what is that realm of this higher state of consciousness which they reach like - what does it look like, is it scary getting there? and all that kind of thing. Lisa. I'll bet you will get some more focused responses if you introduce your own experience and interests a bit. Meditation and the states it can induce are pretty broad topics. Speaking for myself I need to feel as if I am communicating with a person who is willing to present and share their own POV here. What makes you ask your question? might be a good place to start. What do you know about meditation and how do you define higher states? is another. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, aztjbailey aztjbailey@ wrote: Your acceptance of what *is* takes you to a deeper level where your inner state as well as your sense of self no longer depend on the mind's judgements of good or bad. When you say yes to the isness of life, when you accept this moment as it is, you can feel a sense of spaciousness within you that is deeply peaceful. On the surface, you may still be happy when it is sunny and not so happy when its rainy; you may be happy at winning a million dollars and unhappy at losing all of your posessions. Neither happiness or unhappiness, however, go all that deep anymore. They are ripples on the surface of your Being. The backgroud peace within you remains undisturbed regardless of the nature of the outside condition. The yes to what *is* reveals a dimension of depth within you that is dependent neither on external conditions nor on the internal conditions of constantly fluctuating thoughts and emotions. ---Eckhart Tolle, Stillness Speaks, page 66-67 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, lisa_pendarvis lisa_pendarvis@ wrote: I would be interested to hear what people learn by way of meditation. If they come to learn all kinds of different things then what could be said to be perhaps the most profound and illuminating thing which they learn, and as to how that comes to help shape their lives and understanding. Lisa.
[FairfieldLife] Re: What do they learn?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of lisa_pendarvis Sent: Friday, January 04, 2008 2:35 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] What do they learn? I would be interested to hear what people learn by way of meditation. If they come to learn all kinds of different things then what could be said to be perhaps the most profound and illuminating thing which they learn, and as to how that comes to help shape their lives and understanding. Welcome Lisa, a lot of topics are discussed on this board, but we all have a meditation background. That may not be obvious at first, but stick around and you'll see some serious responses to your question. Feel free to follow up with more specific questions, and those may stir up discussions as well. Rick (the moderator, who seldom moderates) (but always catches even the fainthest of viscious rumours...)
[FairfieldLife] Re: What do they learn?
[ What is a mystical experience to you ?] Actualy I said mysterious, but a rose by any other I guess. Well, the most way out one was like an inner trip that ended in a place where there was no time, no personality, only this core me, the bit that endured this trip to that level. Whilst there I coud not remember this world, I knew nothing about it. I had vision, I could see that place and it was beautfiful. I also knew something, weird really, but I undertood why I existed, and I also knew I was home. But I do not know how I knew all that, and I could not question anything for I could not think there. But it was really all about love, an absolute love. It was amazing. But I do not know why or how it happened. After quite some time had pased here I suddenly found myself back here again. Pretty mysterious stuff. But others seem to have had it too and they describe it better than I can. So, I wondered if these mediators find stuff like that. Lisa. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, lisa_pendarvis lisa_pendarvis@ wrote: Higher states is a word I picked up here, so I do not define it, it is not my word to define. If you want to know the reason why I ask it is because I have heard so much talk about meditation but they never tell me what they get exactly and what they learn from it; that is why I ask on a meditation lists. I have never meditated and would not know how to. I have had some spontanious mysterious experiences and wondered whether it was like meditation states, that is all. Lisa. What is a mystical experience to you ?
[FairfieldLife] Re: What do they learn?
Thank you. Actualy I am not looking for a meaning, it was not symbolic of something else, it did not have a meaning, it was like it WAS the meaning itself - perhaps that which other things point to. As for peoples belief systems then well, truly I am not intereted in what people choose to believe, I take life as it comes and deal with it day by day no matter what life throws at one. I enjoy life just great. But I am curious as to what they find during deliberate meditations, they must be seeking something I guess, and I wondered what they found and if it was anything like these events. Always curious I guess :- ) Lisa. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, lisa_pendarvis lisa_pendarvis@ wrote: Higher states is a word I picked up here, so I do not define it, it is not my word to define. If you want to know the reason why I ask it is because I have heard so much talk about meditation but they never tell me what they get exactly and what they learn from it; that is why I ask on a meditation lists. I have never meditated and would not know how to. I have had some spontanious mysterious experiences and wondered whether it was like meditation states, that is all. Lisa. Thanks Lisa. I'm sure some people here can help you gain a perspective of your meditation options. I think spontaneous mysterious experiences are a natural part of being human, but they are not understood very well yet. You will find lots of people who will enthusiastically explain your experience in the context of their own belief systems. But in the end you have to decide what value you are going to put on it for yourself. They may be just that, mysterious experiences. Good luck finding your own meaning for your experiences. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, lisa_pendarvis lisa_pendarvis@ wrote: Well, I have always felt that way :- ) But serioulsy what I meant was what is that realm of this higher state of consciousness which they reach like - what does it look like, is it scary getting there? and all that kind of thing. Lisa. I'll bet you will get some more focused responses if you introduce your own experience and interests a bit. Meditation and the states it can induce are pretty broad topics. Speaking for myself I need to feel as if I am communicating with a person who is willing to present and share their own POV here. What makes you ask your question? might be a good place to start. What do you know about meditation and how do you define higher states? is another. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, aztjbailey aztjbailey@ wrote: Your acceptance of what *is* takes you to a deeper level where your inner state as well as your sense of self no longer depend on the mind's judgements of good or bad. When you say yes to the isness of life, when you accept this moment as it is, you can feel a sense of spaciousness within you that is deeply peaceful. On the surface, you may still be happy when it is sunny and not so happy when its rainy; you may be happy at winning a million dollars and unhappy at losing all of your posessions. Neither happiness or unhappiness, however, go all that deep anymore. They are ripples on the surface of your Being. The backgroud peace within you remains undisturbed regardless of the nature of the outside condition. The yes to what *is* reveals a dimension of depth within you that is dependent neither on external conditions nor on the internal conditions of constantly fluctuating thoughts and emotions. ---Eckhart Tolle, Stillness Speaks, page 66-67 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, lisa_pendarvis lisa_pendarvis@ wrote: I would be interested to hear what people learn by way of meditation. If they come to learn all kinds of different things then what could be said to be perhaps the most profound and illuminating thing which they learn, and as to how that comes to help shape their lives and understanding. Lisa.
[FairfieldLife] Re: What do they learn?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, lisa_pendarvis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Higher states is a word I picked up here, so I do not define it, it is not my word to define. If you want to know the reason why I ask it is because I have heard so much talk about meditation but they never tell me what they get exactly and what they learn from it; that is why I ask on a meditation lists. I have never meditated and would not know how to. I have had some spontanious mysterious experiences and wondered whether it was like meditation states, that is all. Lisa. Thanks Lisa. I'm sure some people here can help you gain a perspective of your meditation options. I think spontaneous mysterious experiences are a natural part of being human, but they are not understood very well yet. You will find lots of people who will enthusiastically explain your experience in the context of their own belief systems. But in the end you have to decide what value you are going to put on it for yourself. They may be just that, mysterious experiences. Good luck finding your own meaning for your experiences. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, lisa_pendarvis lisa_pendarvis@ wrote: Well, I have always felt that way :- ) But serioulsy what I meant was what is that realm of this higher state of consciousness which they reach like - what does it look like, is it scary getting there? and all that kind of thing. Lisa. I'll bet you will get some more focused responses if you introduce your own experience and interests a bit. Meditation and the states it can induce are pretty broad topics. Speaking for myself I need to feel as if I am communicating with a person who is willing to present and share their own POV here. What makes you ask your question? might be a good place to start. What do you know about meditation and how do you define higher states? is another. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, aztjbailey aztjbailey@ wrote: Your acceptance of what *is* takes you to a deeper level where your inner state as well as your sense of self no longer depend on the mind's judgements of good or bad. When you say yes to the isness of life, when you accept this moment as it is, you can feel a sense of spaciousness within you that is deeply peaceful. On the surface, you may still be happy when it is sunny and not so happy when its rainy; you may be happy at winning a million dollars and unhappy at losing all of your posessions. Neither happiness or unhappiness, however, go all that deep anymore. They are ripples on the surface of your Being. The backgroud peace within you remains undisturbed regardless of the nature of the outside condition. The yes to what *is* reveals a dimension of depth within you that is dependent neither on external conditions nor on the internal conditions of constantly fluctuating thoughts and emotions. ---Eckhart Tolle, Stillness Speaks, page 66-67 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, lisa_pendarvis lisa_pendarvis@ wrote: I would be interested to hear what people learn by way of meditation. If they come to learn all kinds of different things then what could be said to be perhaps the most profound and illuminating thing which they learn, and as to how that comes to help shape their lives and understanding. Lisa.
[FairfieldLife] Re: What do they learn?
I think people both seek and find experiences like you are describing through meditation. Language of subjective experiences is so imprecise that you will find people who feel that their experiences are similar and some who will insist that your experience is X and theirs is of the superior Y variety. But I really liked your quote in another post about the mind being full of tricks. I think it is very mysterious and people explore it in many different ways. I am highly suspicious of people who claim to know all about the mind as some teachers do. Continuous curiosity is a form of wisdom in my book. Nice post. I'm sure we'll see some interesting perspectives on your question weighing in. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, lisa_pendarvis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thank you. Actualy I am not looking for a meaning, it was not symbolic of something else, it did not have a meaning, it was like it WAS the meaning itself - perhaps that which other things point to. As for peoples belief systems then well, truly I am not intereted in what people choose to believe, I take life as it comes and deal with it day by day no matter what life throws at one. I enjoy life just great. But I am curious as to what they find during deliberate meditations, they must be seeking something I guess, and I wondered what they found and if it was anything like these events. Always curious I guess :- ) Lisa. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, lisa_pendarvis lisa_pendarvis@ wrote: Higher states is a word I picked up here, so I do not define it, it is not my word to define. If you want to know the reason why I ask it is because I have heard so much talk about meditation but they never tell me what they get exactly and what they learn from it; that is why I ask on a meditation lists. I have never meditated and would not know how to. I have had some spontanious mysterious experiences and wondered whether it was like meditation states, that is all. Lisa. Thanks Lisa. I'm sure some people here can help you gain a perspective of your meditation options. I think spontaneous mysterious experiences are a natural part of being human, but they are not understood very well yet. You will find lots of people who will enthusiastically explain your experience in the context of their own belief systems. But in the end you have to decide what value you are going to put on it for yourself. They may be just that, mysterious experiences. Good luck finding your own meaning for your experiences. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, lisa_pendarvis lisa_pendarvis@ wrote: Well, I have always felt that way :- ) But serioulsy what I meant was what is that realm of this higher state of consciousness which they reach like - what does it look like, is it scary getting there? and all that kind of thing. Lisa. I'll bet you will get some more focused responses if you introduce your own experience and interests a bit. Meditation and the states it can induce are pretty broad topics. Speaking for myself I need to feel as if I am communicating with a person who is willing to present and share their own POV here. What makes you ask your question? might be a good place to start. What do you know about meditation and how do you define higher states? is another. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, aztjbailey aztjbailey@ wrote: Your acceptance of what *is* takes you to a deeper level where your inner state as well as your sense of self no longer depend on the mind's judgements of good or bad. When you say yes to the isness of life, when you accept this moment as it is, you can feel a sense of spaciousness within you that is deeply peaceful. On the surface, you may still be happy when it is sunny and not so happy when its rainy; you may be happy at winning a million dollars and unhappy at losing all of your posessions. Neither happiness or unhappiness, however, go all that deep anymore. They are ripples on the surface of your Being. The backgroud peace within you remains undisturbed regardless of the nature of the outside condition. The yes to what *is* reveals a dimension of depth within you that is dependent neither on external conditions nor on the internal conditions of constantly fluctuating thoughts and emotions. ---Eckhart Tolle, Stillness Speaks, page 66-67 --- In
[FairfieldLife] Re: What do they learn?
--- lisa_pendarvis wrote: [ What is a mystical experience to you ?] Actualy I said mysterious, but a rose by any other I guess. Well, the most way out one was like an inner trip that ended in a place where there was no time, no personality, only this core me, the bit that endured this trip to that level. Whilst there I coud not remember this world, I knew nothing about it. I had vision, I could see that place and it was beautfiful. I also knew something, weird really, but I undertood why I existed, and I also knew I was home. But I do not know how I knew all that, and I could not question anything for I could not think there. But it was really all about love, an absolute love. It was amazing. But I do not know why or how it happened. After quite some time had pased here I suddenly found myself back here again. Pretty mysterious stuff. But others seem to have had it too and they describe it better than I can. So, I wondered if these mediators find stuff like that. Dilute that experience a thousand-fold (or so) and yeah, it's what I take away from meditation. And I like the way you described it!
[FairfieldLife] Re: What do they learn?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Gillam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- lisa_pendarvis wrote: [ What is a mystical experience to you ?] Actualy I said mysterious, but a rose by any other I guess. Well, the most way out one was like an inner trip that ended in a place where there was no time, no personality, only this core me, the bit that endured this trip to that level. Whilst there I coud not remember this world, I knew nothing about it. I had vision, I could see that place and it was beautfiful. I also knew something, weird really, but I undertood why I existed, and I also knew I was home. But I do not know how I knew all that, and I could not question anything for I could not think there. But it was really all about love, an absolute love. It was amazing. But I do not know why or how it happened. After quite some time had pased here I suddenly found myself back here again. Pretty mysterious stuff. But others seem to have had it too and they describe it better than I can. So, I wondered if these mediators find stuff like that. Dilute that experience a thousand-fold (or so) and yeah, it's what I take away from meditation. And I like the way you described it! To me it sounds like a description of a good old travel in the astral fields. For me, these sort of experiences stopped rather abrubtly when starting meditation and I do not really miss them though they were facsinating and mind-blowing. Heaven on Earth and enjoying life right here and now makes more sense, at least to me. :-)
