RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: FW: eye-witness at the cremation
I’ve been out of the loop on this discussion, but just wanted to mention that Amma officiated at mass cremations for tsunami victims, and no one seemed to mind: HYPERLINK http://www.amritapuri.org/tsunami/smriti.phphttp://www.amritapuri.org/tsun ami/smriti.php. But then she’s never been a stickler for sexist “traditions.” No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.5/1314 - Release Date: 3/5/2008 6:38 PM
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: FW: eye-witness at the cremation
On Mar 5, 2008, at 11:01 AM, Michael wrote: I sort of wondered, why no women where there, and thought its one of those patriarchical movement rules, but later heard that its a general religious Hindu injunction for funerals. IOW, patriarchal and misogynist--you had it right the first time. As Curtis and others have pointed out several times, hiding behind religion and slapping the term Vedic over everything doesn't make abusive traditions any less so. Sal
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: FW: eye-witness at the cremation
On Mar 5, 2008, at 11:01 AM, Michael wrote: The movement had built a sort of an alternative altar-room for women in the hall where Maharishisbody was kept for the last 24 hours, and men were prohibited to go there. How thoughtful of them. I think this was a nice move. The ascent to the burning place was a tough one anyway, not really suited for most western women. Let them decide that, OK, Bonzo? Obviously some thought they could ascend. And Indian women apparently weren't allowed either. Sal
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: FW: eye-witness at the cremation
. The ascent to the burning place was a tough one anyway, not really suited for most western women. ---Yeah, their pussies get in the way. Oh wait, maybe they'll bleed on something. Or more likely some devout Hindu will get a horrible erection and inadvertantly cum themself to death. Or not having coks they can't muster the testosterone necessary for the long hike those twenty or so steps up the pire. Or maybe the urge to self immolate will be so strong given the natural tendency for Hindu women to just get all burned up over someone. Yep, so many really good reasons for women and men to be separated.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: FW: eye-witness at the cremation
On Mar 5, 2008, at 11:35 AM, Michael wrote: Its so heard here to say anything without being immediately put into some kind of a box or being misunderstood. So think before you talk, instead of coming across as an arrogant asshole. It was you, I believe, who said the ascent would be too tough for western women, or something to that effect. Who are you to make (or in this case, justify) decisions for others? Obviously, the women who wanted to go didn't think it would be too tough. But you or they know better. You can't just get a Hindu funeral with all the chanting etc and then change the rules - except of course if you want to reform Hinduism in a mayor way. Yeah, I'm sure reforming Hinduism is high on everyone's to-do list. All they wanted to do was say goodbye to MMY. Why is that so hard to understand. Sal
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: FW: eye-witness at the cremation
On Mar 5, 2008, at 11:41 AM, Michael wrote: Well I didn't keep anyone away if thats what you mean. Why is it so difficult to share some observations without being attacked for it. You did more than share, you rationalized the practice of discrimination. Sal
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: FW: eye-witness at the cremation
see http://www.hindu.com/2008/02/08/stories/2008020859321400.htm New Delhi: The Kerala government on Thursday filed an affidavit in the Supreme Court favouring entry of women of all ages into the Sabarimala Ayyappa temple without restriction. At present, women in the age group 10-50 are not allowed. If Hindu gods listen to rules of democracies then why couldn't Maharishi?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: FW: eye-witness at the cremation
On Mar 5, 2008, at 12:08 PM, Michael wrote: You did more than share, you rationalized the practice of discrimination. No, I didn't. I just pointed to the source. Michael, thee were your exact words: The ascent to the burning place was a tough one anyway, not really suited for most western women. That's rationalizing a discriminatory practice. And you did it again here: I said MOST western women. It was an almost stampede. I am not exaggerating, it was the toughest I was ever in. Actually I like women more who can handle such a thing, but most movement women I know wouldn't Let them decide that, is all I'm saying. And then I reported something you didn't know yet, even though its just a minor detail. And then I didn't take a stand - and that seems to drive you mad. Projection, Michael. Sal
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: FW: eye-witness at the cremation
So please get this right madam - I am not saying Hindu things are right, I was just saying its a Hindu rule rather than a movement rule, thats all. Not a TMO rule? That's why Purusha was so passionate about the presence of women, rather than apologetic? And that's why there are no women in high places in the TMO? Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: FW: eye-witness at the cremation
Well I guess you prefer to sit at home in front of your TV or computer and give your live commentary from a save distance. -Yeah. It's true I prefer not to be part of stampedes. But now that you mention it, I was just one of those poor shmucks who could not afford to traipse across the globe so ooops, maybe it's due to socioeconomic factors like not one single self serving asshole in the Movement thought to try to help other lesser beings go pay tributes. And then all those smug smiles and faces and how lucky it is to be so filthy rich and wonderful. Geez. Whatever.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: FW: eye-witness at the cremation
On Mar 5, 2008, at 1:35 PM, Michael wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mar 5, 2008, at 12:08 PM, Michael wrote: You did more than share, you rationalized the practice of discrimination. No, I didn't. I just pointed to the source. Michael, thee were your exact words: The ascent to the burning place was a tough one anyway, not really suited for most western women. That's rationalizing a discriminatory practice. And you did it again here: I said MOST western women. It was an almost stampede. I am not exaggerating, it was the toughest I was ever in. Actually I like women more who can handle such a thing, but most movement women I know wouldn't Let them decide that, is all I'm saying. I am all for that, but ITS NOT MY DECISION. I'm not in charge. I just said that many, actually most women I know wouldn't even have tried it, nor would there have been many western men either. (The Purushas were aready sitting up there) And then I reported something you didn't know yet, even though its just a minor detail. And then I didn't take a stand - and that seems to drive you mad. Projection, Michael. And when you say I come across as an arrogant asshole, that must have been projection as well I guess. The moral of this story is: ALWAYS bring marshmallows to a barbecue. It's a sure in, weird caste laws or not.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: FW: eye-witness at the cremation
talk, instead of coming across as an arrogant asshole. And I had thought there was something like a code for basic courtesy on this board. --Assumption of the decade. It was you, I believe, who said the ascent would be too tough for western women, or something to that effect. Who are you to make (or in this case, justify) decisions for others? Obviously, the women who wanted to go didn't think it would be too tough. But you or they know better. I said too tough for MOST women I know in the movement based on my 20 year old experience with Mother Divine. --Whoah, Isn't she a bit young? It would have been so simple to just actually read what I wrote instead of just assuming that I was all for those rules and was maybe even setting them up, no hey, I must have been this rude Purusha guy himself (wasn't I Purusha once, and aren't they all the same?) or I must have been at least in a sort of telepathic rapport with him. So much about projection. And then I even have the wits of defending myself to a feminist, a sure sign of being a chauvinist asshole, what else could I be? ;-) Touchy touchy.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: FW: eye-witness at the cremation
On Mar 5, 2008, at 12:35 PM, Michael wrote: Let them decide that, is all I'm saying. I am all for that, but ITS NOT MY DECISION. Why not? Couldn't you have said something? I'm not in charge. Couldn't you have spoken up anyway? Or did you agree with the treatment those women were getting? Or were you just following orders, so to speak? I just said that many, actually most women I know wouldn't even have tried it, But apparently *these* women did. Do you even read your own emails, Michael? nor would there have been many western men either. (The Purushas were aready sitting up there) How did they get there--magic carpet? Presumably either they walked or used some kind of powered vehicle to get there, the same way the women could have. All I'm saying is, don't rationalize or tacitly condone bad behavior, as you seem to be doing. All that is necessary for evil (or in this case, condescension) to succeed, is for good people to do nothing. Paraphrased. Sal
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: FW: eye-witness at the cremation
I would have loved to go. I have never been to India, never having had two dimes to rub together. - Original Message - From: Michael [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 1:42 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: FW: eye-witness at the cremation --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Kirk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well I guess you prefer to sit at home in front of your TV or computer and give your live commentary from a save distance. -Yeah. It's true I prefer not to be part of stampedes. But now that you mention it, I was just one of those poor shmucks who could not afford to traipse across the globe so ooops, maybe it's due to socioeconomic factors like not one single self serving asshole in the Movement thought to try to help other lesser beings go pay tributes. And then all those smug smiles and faces and how lucky it is to be so filthy rich and wonderful. Geez. Whatever. So you say, with all the opinions you have given here recently, you would have gone if it would have cost you just, lets say 200 bucks? Well, I was already in India, and had to take only inland flights, so it was cheaper to me, then it would have been to you. But there was a risk of being too late, not getting flights in time, no flights to Allahabad or Varanasi on the net) two days in buses, planes, cars, with basically no sleep, being in a cheap hotel in a foreign city, standing 8 hours in a traffic queue, freezing virtually, getting out of the car at 6 am and starting to walk 20 kms before Allahabad, finding a rikshaw with 2 boys not speaking english, that could navigate through the traffic, driving to the other side of the river, just to realize that we are totally lost, going back, getting a basic sense of direction, finally arriving at 8.30am and getting in the crowd right away, getting back to ffl to be smacked of politically incorrect statements - what a wonderful life for us filthy rich. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: FW: eye-witness at the cremation
I just love India. I have had pujas done at a huge assortment of temples via online services. Just the idea of being able to worship pretty much anything. I had the five elemental temples fully abhishekaed last year. What a boost to the imagination. I just would love to feel all of those vibes first hand and find out if it was all in my mind or what?! Buddhist lamas want me to go to Nepal and Tibet and Dharamsala and Sikkim and Bhutan, but Buddhist that I am I am just so much more into simple goodness of worship of things. It just seems so pretty. I think of India like being a really sexy sweetheart, while those other places are like good hearted brothers. I can't wait to go someday. First I will go to Vizag, Calcutta, and Assam, and visit Devipuram, Khalighat, and Kamakhya. And also probably Babadham and the very powerful Tarapeeth. - Original Message - From: Michael [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 3:13 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: FW: eye-witness at the cremation --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Kirk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would have loved to go. I have never been to India, never having had two dimes to rub together. I believe you! I love India too, its like an LSD trip (well I don't know how that is, but I think its like being in India) There were two American girls who came last year and they said there is nothing which can prepare you for that experience. Probably from the outside it is comparable to Mexico, but then the people are different, the religion, the sounds, the colors, its all a unique blend. And then its saints... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links
