Re: GTK2 Roundabout
Il giorno Wed, 20 Dec 2006 09:23:27 + Leo [EMAIL PROTECTED] ha scritto: * Máirín Duffy (2006-12-20 02:17 -0500) said: May I ask why? It shouldn't be based on looks since Clearlooks can achieve the same effects... I just checked its cvs repository, looks like it is getting some attention these days. Take the vertical scroll bar for example: For a long time, all clearlooks based gtk2 themes have the same vertical scroll bar (that's in FC4). Then it became capable of changing color (as in FC5). My feeling is that Clearlooks is a dated slow inflexible theme engine. OpenSUSE Ubuntu and Mandrake, none of them are using it. Now there is a better alternative, I see no reason not to change. The best theme package is from RH8¹ for its unique gtk metacity and icon themes. Even today, there are still many upstream screenshots one can instantly recognizes that they are taken in RH/Fedora Linux. And I think this is a great marketing opportunity. But for the past 4 years, no significant change has been made to Fedora's theme and you can see more and more screenshots are taken on those distributions that do take the trouble to get a consistent and pretty look. On the technical comparison of clearlooks and Murrine, Cimi, could you show us the merits of Murrine? Footnotes: ¹ http://itpro.no/omtaler.php?op=Programvareid=158 Sure, i can explain the good things of the two engines. Good points of Murrine: 1) Best look for a cairo engine, people love Murrine rather than other engines and install it for this reason (this is what people think, see votes on www.gnomelook.org and polls on ubuntuforums, http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=291636, where murrine is placed on 42% and ubuntulooks and clearlooks at only 21%) 2) Huge amount of colorschemes (aka Themes) available on gnomelook.org. At this moment in just 5 months it has taken more Themes than clearlooks took for two years. 3) With Cairo rendering library performance has slowdown every engine (due to gradients and curves). Murrine is capable to reach nearly the same speed of old engines with the big quality of cairo rendering. At default is about 30% faster than clearlooks and ubuntulooks. This is due to the new design of buttons that don't need to have gradients to be really cool. 4) Wonderful capabilities in customization. It supports a lot of options (that with 0.40 release expected on Christmas day will be a lot more... prepare to another BIG release) that makes able the user to completely change the look of a Theme following his tastes just changing few things. Murrine Configurator, http://cimi.netsons.org/pages/murrine/configurator.php is a simple GUI that every user (and every newbie!!!) can use to configure every theme with just few clicks. 5) Support of dark themes. Actually Murrine is the only engine supporting of dark themes without making ugliness in rendering (try to set dark colors on clearlooks-cairo or ubuntulooks... and see white lines almost everywhere). Good points of Clearlooks: 1) Official Support of gnome bugzilla, so general bugs (so not clearlooks-only related) are fixed before on it. Btw i'm a lot of time in #gnome-art IRC channel so all important bugs were fixed in murrine too. Murrine needs a bugzilla, I guess. 2) Clearlooks has a public cvs while murrine has more (stable) releases. Murrine needs a cvs, I guess. From previous 2 points we can guess a 3rd one, even though it could be the 6th good point of murrine: Clearlooks development lacks of good designers, and founders/creators aren't developing till an year (it was abandoned from them). For this moment Clearlooks is developed by a friend of mine, Benzea (who I greet, hi benzea!!!) who is very very good in coding and fixing bugs, but he hasn't done so much in improving look in the last year... Despite I'm very very good in design and improving the look of Murrine (many paople say Murrine is the best theme compared with every OS, Mac and Microsoft included) but not good as benzea in bug-fixing. So for this reason I suggested Murrine as the new engine. Linux needs great themes in the desktop experience and Murrine is the best starting point, since with redhat bugzilla Murrine may reach the same Good points of clearlooks. This is my opinion and i've tried to be neutral to hilight the good points of every engine. -- Cimi - Andrea Cimitan http://cimi.netsons.org ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: GTK2 Roundabout
Il giorno Wed, 20 Dec 2006 09:23:27 + Leo [EMAIL PROTECTED] ha scritto: * Máirín Duffy (2006-12-20 02:17 -0500) said: May I ask why? It shouldn't be based on looks since Clearlooks can achieve the same effects... I just checked its cvs repository, looks like it is getting some attention these days. Take the vertical scroll bar for example: For a long time, all clearlooks based gtk2 themes have the same vertical scroll bar (that's in FC4). Then it became capable of changing color (as in FC5). My feeling is that Clearlooks is a dated slow inflexible theme engine. OpenSUSE Ubuntu and Mandrake, none of them are using it. Now there is a better alternative, I see no reason not to change. The best theme package is from RH8¹ for its unique gtk metacity and icon themes. Even today, there are still many upstream screenshots one can instantly recognizes that they are taken in RH/Fedora Linux. And I think this is a great marketing opportunity. But for the past 4 years, no significant change has been made to Fedora's theme and you can see more and more screenshots are taken on those distributions that do take the trouble to get a consistent and pretty look. On the technical comparison of clearlooks and Murrine, Cimi, could you show us the merits of Murrine? Footnotes: ¹ http://itpro.no/omtaler.php?op=Programvareid=158 Sure, i can explain the good things of the two engines. Good points of Murrine: 1) Best look for a cairo engine, people love Murrine rather than other engines and install it for this reason (this is what people think, see votes on www.gnomelook.org and polls on ubuntuforums, http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=291636, where murrine is placed on 42% and ubuntulooks and clearlooks at only 21%) 2) Huge amount of colorschemes (aka Themes) available on gnomelook.org. At this moment in just 5 months it has taken more Themes than clearlooks took for two years. 3) With Cairo rendering library performance has slowdown every engine (due to gradients and curves). Murrine is capable to reach nearly the same speed of old engines with the big quality of cairo rendering. At default is about 30% faster than clearlooks and ubuntulooks. This is due to the new design of buttons that don't need to have gradients to be really cool. 4) Wonderful capabilities in customization. It supports a lot of options (that with 0.40 release expected on Christmas day will be a lot more... prepare to another BIG release) that makes able the user to completely change the look of a Theme following his tastes just changing few things. Murrine Configurator, http://cimi.netsons.org/pages/murrine/configurator.php is a simple GUI that every user (and every newbie!!!) can use to configure every theme with just few clicks. 5) Support of dark themes. Actually Murrine is the only engine supporting of dark themes without making ugliness in rendering (try to set dark colors on clearlooks-cairo or ubuntulooks... and see white lines almost everywhere). Good points of Clearlooks: 1) Official Support of gnome bugzilla, so general bugs (so not clearlooks-only related) are fixed before on it. Btw i'm a lot of time in #gnome-art IRC channel so all important bugs were fixed in murrine too. Murrine needs a bugzilla, I guess. 2) Clearlooks has a public cvs while murrine has more (stable) releases. Murrine needs a cvs, I guess. From previous 2 points we can guess a 3rd one, even though it could be the 6th good point of murrine: Clearlooks development lacks of good designers, and founders/creators aren't developing till an year (it was abandoned from them). For this moment Clearlooks is developed by a friend of mine, Benzea (who I greet, hi benzea!!!) who is very very good in coding and fixing bugs, but he hasn't done so much in improving look in the last year... Despite I'm very very good in design and improving the look of Murrine (many paople say Murrine is the best theme compared with every OS, Mac and Microsoft included) but not good as benzea in bug-fixing. So for this reason I suggested Murrine as the new engine. Linux needs great themes in the desktop experience and Murrine is the best starting point, since with redhat bugzilla Murrine may reach the same Good points of clearlooks. This is my opinion and i've tried to be neutral to hilight the good points of every engine. -- Cimi - Andrea Cimitan http://cimi.netsons.org ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: GTK2 Roundabout
Il giorno Fri, 15 Dec 2006 20:13:48 + Leo [EMAIL PROTECTED] ha scritto: * Andrea Cimitan (2006-12-13 02:59 nil) said: ^^ I am thinking on a theme similar to Suse's Gilouche, but obviusly with different colorscheme. Gilouche is easy on the eyes and users can use it for month without being annoyed by it. Ideas, suggestions? I have been using MurrinaGilouche for quite sometime. I like the theme because it looks clean, all fonts are very clear and very easy on my eyes. Some other Murrine themes are nice but my eyes get tired after a short time. I put this the first priority when choosing a theme. You might want to chat with Andy Fitz. I learned from Máirín Duffy: ,[ http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.linux.redhat.fedora.artwork/662 ] | I think for gtk2 we are probably going to stick with | Clearlooks. Clearlooks is getting some features that give it the | glossiness Murrine has, and it's also the GNOME upstream theming | engine. Andy Fitzsimon put together a Murrine theme that has very | very nice Fedora colors, and I think he's working on porting it to | Clearlooks. ` Ok we can stick to clearlooks and get glossiness and ugliness of it. * Andrea Cimitan (2006-12-15 20:35 +0100) said: ^^ [...] Just wanted to follow-up that the Colors section of http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/EchoIconGuidelines is at a usable state...I've added the 4 additional grays (named Metallic) that play a big part in defining Echo's look and feel. Once again, thank you Ben for compiling the colors. The Echo colors are absolutely bad for a gtk2 theme... IMHO. GTK theme looks to me does not require many colors, so you can be as creative as you like, as long as the theme fits in. Try those colors... here they are looking very very bad in a gtk2 theme. -- Cimi - Andrea Cimitan http://cimi.netsons.org ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
GTK2 Roundabout
Next version of Murrine is ready to be released (almost) with all bugfixes provided in the mailing lists (thx to all). Now the problem is which colors? I am thinking on a theme similar to Suse's Gilouche, but obviusly with different colorscheme. Gilouche is easy on the eyes and users can use it for month without being annoyed by it. Ideas, suggestions? You can contact me on irc, my nickname is cimi, or just with other im clients. -- Cimi - Andrea Cimitan http://cimi.netsons.org ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
New Fedora Theme (GTK2+Metacity) (Download, Fixed index.theme)
Here it is... Requires Murrine Gtk2 Engine version 0.31 otherwise you will have no gtk2 look. Please use with the added metacity. Notes: Under development... It's just a simple theme to see Murrine capabilities... To customize the look you can do in two ways: 1)Install Murrine configurator and edit with the GUI (recommended): http://cimi.netsons.org/pages/murrine/configurator.php 2)If you want less roundness edit gtkrc of the theme and set roundness to 3 (clearlooks roundness) or 0,1 to a squared one. set glazestyle = 1 for a curved hilight on glaze instead flat ones. See attachments for the archive. Best Regards -- Cimi - Andrea Cimitan http://cimi.netsons.org MurrinaEcho.tar.gz Description: GNU Zip compressed data ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
New Fedora Theme (GTK2+Metacity) (Download)
Here it is... Requires Murrine Gtk2 Engine version 0.31 otherwise you will have no gtk2 look. Please use with the added metacity. Notes: Under development... It's just a simple theme to see Murrine capabilities... To customize the look you can do in two ways: 1)Install Murrine configurator and edit with the GUI (recommended): http://cimi.netsons.org/pages/murrine/configurator.php 2)If you want less roundness edit gtkrc of the theme and set roundness to 3 (clearlooks roundness) or 0,1 to a squared one. set glazestyle = 1 for a curved hilight on glaze instead flat ones. See attachments for the archive. Best Regards -- Cimi - Andrea Cimitan http://cimi.netsons.org MurrinaEcho.tar.gz Description: GNU Zip compressed data ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: [Fwd: Re: New Fedora GTK Theme (Screenshot)]
Il giorno Wed, 15 Nov 2006 14:44:15 -0500 Steve Barnhart [EMAIL PROTECTED] ha scritto: hmm I like murrine for the coloring of the toolbar/menu bar but everything else seems to soft or please excuse me, but idk feminine, coming from a guy's perspective. Not that it doesn't look nice, but I find it looks messy when task entries are excessively rounded and the button gradient/color doesn't really appeal to me. I guess I just widely prefer a more glass look and definitely Apple's look. It's just a color scheme... contrast, roundness and glaze can be modified simply editing gtkrc of the theme. Is there a chance the buttons/selection can be given more of a glass look without looking over-done? I also like the way Windows XP does its buttons or the KDE polyester theme[1] (even though I have my problems with that). Its good though that grey is making its way out, it has been WAY overused and makes Linux look old and outdated. Keep up the good work though! 1. http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=27968 This theme is absolutely *ugly*... Sorry i don't like it. On 11/15/06, Máirín Duffy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: including the art team in the discussion -- Forwarded message -- From: Andrea Cimitan [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 20:30:27 +0100 Subject: Re: New Fedora GTK Theme (Screenshot) Il giorno Sat, 11 Nov 2006 19:48:11 -0500 Ray Strode [EMAIL PROTECTED] ha scritto: Hi, On Sat, 2006-11-11 at 17:17 +0100, Andrea Cimitan wrote: I think fedora could _at least_ add murrine to a repository, and then I can provide a fantastic color scheme for the fedora desktop. It sounds interesting. Can you put together a theme that uses your engine that has fedora-ish colors? David, what do think? You might want to bring this up on the fedora-art list, too, so you can get some input from the fedora artists. --Ray Click to see my first screenshot of murrine with a simple fedora colorscheme... http://img93.imageshack.us/img93/7726/previewml7.jpg Impressions??? -- Cimi - Andrea Cimitan http://cimi.netsons.org -- Fedora-desktop-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-desktop-list ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list -- Cimi - Andrea Cimitan http://cimi.netsons.org ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: [Fwd: Re: New Fedora GTK Theme (Screenshot)]
Il giorno Wed, 15 Nov 2006 14:40:24 -0500 Máirín Duffy [EMAIL PROTECTED] ha scritto: From: Andrea Cimitan [EMAIL PROTECTED] Click to see my first screenshot of murrine with a simple fedora colorscheme... http://img93.imageshack.us/img93/7726/previewml7.jpg Impressions??? 1) Overall I like the colors and shading. Quite nice! thx 2) There isn't really enough contrast in the menubars between the text and background. The text is hard to read. i've made that color mod in 3 minutes... so don't expect do be perfect... it can be improved and even completely changed... it was done only to see how it can looks with ble theme 3) I suspect the applications | places | menu item on the gnome panel would look funky with that menubar style? I noticed this is not included in the screenshot... Yes it's true... I'm seeing if there's a way to get rid of it Otherwise nice work! What metacity theme are you using? ~m ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list -- Cimi - Andrea Cimitan http://cimi.netsons.org ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: [Fwd: Re: New Fedora GTK Theme (Screenshot)]
Il giorno Wed, 15 Nov 2006 14:46:12 -0500 Steve Barnhart [EMAIL PROTECTED] ha scritto: On 11/15/06, Máirín Duffy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 3) I suspect the applications | places | menu item on the gnome panel would look funky with that menubar style? I noticed this is not included in the screenshot... Exactly, thank you for reminding me. I like the menu bar coloring, but unfortunately it makes the applications menu bar that color. is there a way to not have it inherit the property or perhaps a patch can be made? I really like the colored menubar but also prefer my applications menu to stay with the look of the rest of the panel. http://img55.imageshack.us/img55/9781/immagineaz1.jpg Simple fix in the gtkrc! :) Otherwise nice work! What metacity theme are you using? ~m It's compiz ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list -- Cimi - Andrea Cimitan http://cimi.netsons.org ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: [Fwd: Re: New Fedora GTK Theme (Screenshot)]
Il giorno Wed, 15 Nov 2006 14:44:15 -0500 Steve Barnhart [EMAIL PROTECTED] ha scritto: hmm I like murrine for the coloring of the toolbar/menu bar but everything else seems to soft or please excuse me, but idk feminine, coming from a guy's perspective. Not that it doesn't look nice, but I find it looks messy when task entries are excessively rounded and the button gradient/color doesn't really appeal to me. I guess I just widely prefer a more glass look and definitely Apple's look. See changes in roundness and on the glaze effect on another screenshot i've emailed few minutes ago Is there a chance the buttons/selection can be given more of a glass look without looking over-done? I also like the way Windows XP does its buttons or the KDE polyester theme[1] (even though I have my problems with that). Its good though that grey is making its way out, it has been WAY overused and makes Linux look old and outdated. Keep up the good work though! 1. http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=27968 On 11/15/06, Máirín Duffy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: including the art team in the discussion -- Forwarded message -- From: Andrea Cimitan [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 20:30:27 +0100 Subject: Re: New Fedora GTK Theme (Screenshot) Il giorno Sat, 11 Nov 2006 19:48:11 -0500 Ray Strode [EMAIL PROTECTED] ha scritto: Hi, On Sat, 2006-11-11 at 17:17 +0100, Andrea Cimitan wrote: I think fedora could _at least_ add murrine to a repository, and then I can provide a fantastic color scheme for the fedora desktop. It sounds interesting. Can you put together a theme that uses your engine that has fedora-ish colors? David, what do think? You might want to bring this up on the fedora-art list, too, so you can get some input from the fedora artists. --Ray Click to see my first screenshot of murrine with a simple fedora colorscheme... http://img93.imageshack.us/img93/7726/previewml7.jpg Impressions??? -- Cimi - Andrea Cimitan http://cimi.netsons.org -- Fedora-desktop-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-desktop-list ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list -- Cimi - Andrea Cimitan http://cimi.netsons.org ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: New Fedora GTK Theme
Il giorno Sat, 11 Nov 2006 19:09:53 -0500 Máirín Duffy [EMAIL PROTECTED] ha scritto: Leo wrote: The engine will make sure themes based on it will render well. Try searching 'murrin' in gnome-look you will get tons of them. I realize that. My point is that most theme engines include an actual theme with them. Murrine at least is the first I have encountered that does not. It makes installing it and trying to use it pretty confusing. ~m ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list There are 2 problems: 1) I don't want/no ideas for a default murrine look. 2) The biggest feature of murrine is the configurator, with it you can easily customize your themes, add roundness, select styles etc etc... With local themes (under ~/.themes) no root permissions are required, but if I install themes under /usr/share/themes than the configurator needs root permissions to run and this will cause problems for the user (and it will cause two entry in the gnome menu which is bad) Bye Cimi - Andrea Cimitan ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
